How to Create a Thriving Membership Community with Amy Sangster, CEO of MemberUp

Hey, hey, you're listening to the Level Up Creators Podcast. Amanda Northcutt here, founder and CEO. We help digital creators build thriving, sustainable businesses they love. We're so glad you're here. Welcome. My amazing guest today is Amy Sangster, co-founder and CEO of MemberUp, the world's leading online membership business platform. Amy is a seasoned creator herself who runs a thriving membership community on personal finance while also leading the charge at MemberUp. And she is joining me today from Malibu, California. Welcome, Amy.

Thank you so much for the warm welcome. I'm excited to be here.

Thank you so much again for the time. I really appreciate it.

Of

course, we have a lot in store today. Today, Amy and I are going to help you decide if creating a membership community is right for your creator business and how to run one like a pro. But before we dive into our main topic today, Amy, would you mind telling us a little bit more about yourself and your journey so far as a creator and now CEO of MemberUp?

Absolutely, man. Where to start? Okay, so we— well, I'll start with me, I guess, before we get to the we part of the team. So I've always been a creator, not necessarily by choice. I kind of fell into it. When I was 18, I was looking for different options. I knew that, you know, I was working at a bank pretty early on in my journey. I was studying finance and I just knew that wasn't the path for me. It didn't feel, didn't feel right. And I didn't know how people settled for that, to be honest. And so instead of ignoring that, which I think a lot of people do, I was vehemently seeking out answers, trying to find Who could tell me a path that was just different and one that I wanted? And so, thankfully, I had a friend that I went to school with who was the only person that I knew at the time who, while we were all at work, he was actually at home in his pajamas in front of his computer. And so, I got really curious. And he had kind of grown up in a family that were entrepreneurial, doing things differently. And so, I kind of learned a lot of things from him starting with eBay. So, he taught me the ropes of how to make a side income, which turned into my full income. on eBay, just dropshipping products. That then gave me a good pool of cash as a teenager to then go and trade, which was the next thing that he taught me. And at the time, I wasn't really looking for fulfillment. I was just looking for a way out. So, I was like, trading? Sure. eBay? Sure. I'll do whatever. And thankfully, he really kickstarted that journey for me, which spurred me into YouTube. So, I met my partner online. So, I was looking for other people who were thinking like me at the time, and I was trying to find anyone that was doing life differently. And it was really hard at the time. A lot of the people that I went to school with were not thinking that way. And so it got kind of lonely. And so one night I was searching on YouTube for, I think it was like something silly, like my dream car or something like that. And at the time it was an Audi R8. And I found a guy by the name of Robert Himmler. And I never do this because I'm an introvert, but I messaged him. I sent him a message and I was like, hey, like, you look like you're doing cool stuff. And he told me later on that he never replies. And he replied to me and was like, hey, it's nice to meet you. So something was destined there. Yeah. We ended up connecting, chatting. Long story short, one thing led to another. We fell for one another. And I actually ended up kind of becoming a part of his YouTube channel, which exposed me to like 110 million people. Certainly wasn't something that I expected. And he taught me— I'm very grateful for all the amazing men in my life that have taught me things— but he taught me how to go viral on YouTube and the social media game and really everything about being a creator. And that kind of spurred into 100 million people knowing that I was living life differently and wanting to know how. And so, from there, again, I never thought I would be a course creator or membership owner or anything like that. I just followed the demand and people were asking, well, how do we do this? And so, I had a lot of traffic from YouTube, created and learned how to create because I didn't know anything about digital marketing or product building or anything like that at the time, created the product to serve those people and built a thriving personal finance community named Infinite Prosperity that we ran really successfully for about 7, 8 years and grew to multiple millions in revenue. Through that, so you can see it's definitely a journey, which is why I say, oh man, when you ask me. Through that, I actually ended up connecting with some of the most amazing entrepreneurs in the industry, especially like the girls at Boss Babe and just collaborating. We actually did a partnership together and the same problem kept showing up no matter what businesses I worked with in my own business. And that was how on earth do we build a really good home for all of our digital products and our community together? And have it look good and feel good at the same time. They struggled with that. I worked with them on building a custom WordPress site that was, you know, it was the best solution at the time, but it certainly wasn't the best for their community or for their budget or anything like that. So it just became clear that we needed to create it. And so the team that actually worked on that membership, we actually kind of spun off and some of the girls at Boss Babe too, to go and create MemberUp, which is what we are doing today. So yeah, it's a long story, but that's kind of how we got to right here, right now.

That's incredible and truly a nonlinear journey as well. Like, I think most of our paths end up being, it's not as we set them out to be for sure. And especially with starting with a degree in finance and starting to work at a bank and things like that, that's actually a similar story to my husband, which is hilarious. He's in software engineering leadership at this point. So interesting. I was thinking as I was preparing notes for our recording today, and I don't know that there are 2 humans on this earth who have more membership experience than you and I. And so like the firepower that we are bringing to this call is really, really significant. I mean, I've been in this digital recurring revenue space since 2005. Um, and I started in collegiate sports. So that's like, couldn't be further probably from Boss Babe. So we're coming from very different angles, but, um, kind of ended up in a, in a similar vein here. So. All right. Again, I'm super excited for that.

Yeah, no, we're gonna dive in and we can go deep on this one.

I know. I think, I think we're gonna have to, um, maybe do one show a season with you or something like that because there's no way we're gonna cover all of our bases. Phase one.

That's exactly right.

Layered up. Yeah, totally. Well, okay, so we've talked about, you know, you've run your own really, really, really successful membership community for many, many years and, um, kind of Hopped, skipped, and jumped from Australia all the way to Malibu. And I mean, that is a crazy story about you and Rob meeting on YouTube and then hitting it off and ending up together. Okay, so how did you get from there to CEO of MemberUp?

Yeah,

so I guess a little, little more on the boss babe thing and how you decided on creating a membership platform on your own rather than anything else you could have done.

Yeah, absolutely. And it was kind of like I said, it wasn't something that I was really looking to do. And I think the best The best businesses really evolve out of just a massive need. And it's not that there were no platforms in the space, but having used pretty much every single one of them, none of them truly fit the bill. And also, I'm like a design junkie. I love beautiful design. I love beautiful UI. And I know that a lot of the women that we were working with at the time felt the same way as me. And I felt that there were a lot of platforms out there that felt like they were designed by men. And they had a very like tech Silicon Valley vibe to them. And they were beautiful nonetheless, but it was just completely different. They didn't have a feeling to them. When you actually came in and used the products. And so, through that, we were just like, okay, if this needs to exist, it needs to be simple, quick, and easy to use. It needs to be beautiful. And no one else is building it. And we also see this massive opportunity where people no longer just want education. People no longer just want income. They want recurring revenue. Now, people want a community, not just education. So, it's kind of the convergence of all of those factors all at once going, All right, I guess we're the ones to do it then. And we just knew the industry. To your point, there's not a lot of people with that specialized knowledge. And I think being the creator myself and also our team is amazing. We have an incredible team of people that have worked really well, have really successful businesses in the coaching industry. Then we're partnered with Danielle Leslie, who's kind of the queen of online courses. Then you have Danielle Canty, one of the girls at Boss Babes. So we all brought this really unique experience. To the table because products and digital products are dynamic. Some people have different needs, different permissions, different design needs, and combining all of those factors together, I think, is what has allowed us to stand out on top of the fact that we're really serving a different market that wasn't served before. I don't think females are addressed with the current platforms that exist out there because they want something that's a lot simpler, that's a lot more beautiful, and that actually feels different to the other things they're using. So. Yeah, that's kind of a very high-level overview of how it all came together, but it's evolved now into something that's completely different where we're not just looking at standing out through beauty, but we're actually looking at standing out through discoverability. And so, one of the biggest things that we've learned is people do want digital products. They want memberships or online courses, and we'll talk about the difference shortly. But the biggest thing they struggle with is marketing. When I said, when I started my story, I knew nothing about digital marketing. Thankfully I had a massive audience on YouTube, so I didn't need to, but most creators don't have that advantage. And so we're really thinking now about not just how can we build a beautiful platform, but how can we build a platform where people get discovered? Because right now, if you use Facebook, people can find you on Facebook, but we all know Facebook's not a great experience to sell a paid product on. And so we're kind of thinking through that lens, not just of a home for products, but also how can we help your products get found just because you're using MemberUp by other potential members, by other creators, and really building more of a network.

Interesting. I haven't heard you discuss that angle before, so I'm not sure how much, um, I don't know if you want to kind of like peel the curtain back a little bit more on that or anything, but that is truly fascinating. If you're going to solve both the tech aesthetic and marketing piece of it, um, I mean, there's not a more compelling membership platform out there. If, if, yeah, that's a, that's a pretty compelling triple threat. Uh, is there anything else you want to share or we'll leave it at that and come back to it later?

Um, why don't we dive into the other things? We can definitely go deeper on this, but I want to make sure that we, uh, we speak to the people who are really trying to get started in creating their digital products too. So we, we can start there and then we can get into all the granular details about the discovery. I know that this is something you're curious about now that I've brought it up, but we'll come back around to it for sure now that I've hooked you.

Yeah, I'm super intrigued. All right, well, as you and I both know, the internet is saturated with information on how to build and launch your first course. So I know you're working with Danielle Leslie, Course queen. So tell me your thoughts on how a course versus a membership fits into a creator's product suite.

Absolutely. So this is something that has evolved over the years because I'm someone that has had standalone courses, meaning it's just packaged information. And then I found that the people going through those courses had better results when I added on a Facebook group or I built like a WordPress platform to support them. And then what I noticed is that I was not getting paid beyond the initial sale to support these people for 7+ years later, which was a really inefficient business model. And It's not really aligned on either side because I wanted them to get great results. I wanted a place that I could answer their questions, but also if they'd paid a minimal amount 7 years ago, that makes it hard to continue supporting them in the way that I really wanted to. So, I think courses have evolved now into where we're almost talking about the same thing. Online courses, people just baseline expect support. And with memberships, a lot of people think of a membership as really just a place to— this is one of the common misconceptions, I think. They think of it as a place to just put any of their content. You know, I'm just going to be sharing content about personal finance and one week it's going to be credit score advice. And the next week it's going to be investing advice. And I actually see that the biggest thing that people get wrong about that is, you know, online courses without support don't really work anymore. And memberships that are just kind of a slew of information don't really work anymore because there's so much content out there nowadays. People can go to YouTube if they just want to watch a variety of different videos. And so kind of marketing 101 is, People don't buy products, they buy transformations in the digital space. You know, they're buying, how do I get from where I am now to where I wanna be? And so if they just wanted generalized information about that topic, they'd go to YouTube. It's all free nowadays. And the quality of free content out there is so good that it's very hard to compete with that in a just generic membership model. And so everything's kind of converged now to where I see digital products, masterminds, courses, and memberships all actually being very similar. We just did a webinar on this where I kind of explain it in more detail. And every information product nowadays has a curriculum where people go from A to B and a community where people on that journey connect with one another. And I think the only difference is pricing. So, a mastermind, we typically think of that being on the higher side. A membership, we typically think of that being on the lower side. And an online course sits somewhere in the middle. And so, my biggest advice to people is if you're wanting the cash injection of an online course, then I actually suggest doing an annual membership. So, that's what I've moved to now. I know a lot of big people in the space are moving to this model. It's kind of like, you know, You know, when you go to buy a Blue Claw, now you'll see Blue Claws everywhere. Now that I've mentioned this, you'll see it a lot if you're paying attention to the space. People like Brené Bouchard, people like Sophia Amoruso all started with courses, now shifting to an annual membership model. And it's really interesting because I think that kind of is the sweet spot where you give people a transformation. You're getting the cash injection as the creator and not selling like a $7 a month membership. And you're able to support those people in a forum over the longer period of time. So I really like that model, but I do think that they're kind of all very, very similar. The only difference is kind of how we're positioning them and how we price them. And memberships don't have to be cheap either. A lot of people think, you know, $7 a month membership or $20 a month membership. But again, it all comes down to that transformation that you're providing. So if I'm helping solve a really big problem, then it warrants a higher price tag. Also depends who you're selling to. So if the demographic of person is maybe someone that's just exited college, probably don't have a whole lot of disposable income to throw around. Therefore, I'm going to have to price it a little bit cheaper versus if I'm supporting 7-figure business owners, that's typically where people start to call it a mastermind. But it's actually the same thing. They're just going through a transformation. They're getting access to a network of people, whether it's you or the others in the community that they wouldn't normally have. And they're kind of just all coming together around a certain topic or transformation. So I really see That's kind of the biggest thing that when I start talking to people about like debating memberships and courses and masterminds, I'm like, guys, they're all kind of the same nowadays. It's just how you position them and how you talk about them. I don't know if you see it the same way, but that's kind of what I've seen shift over the, uh, over the years that I've been involved in the creator space, at least.

I couldn't agree more, especially with regard to masterminds, memberships, and things like that. Yeah, it is the same. It's just the, the value and the transformation that you're providing, what the willingness to pay quotient is. How big and difficult of a problem are you solving? How much of your inputs does it take to help, you know, spur on that transformation for your customers? And I love the idea of flipping the script on using an annual membership model versus a single course launch model, because that opens up all sorts of other possibilities and the opportunity for you to connect much more deeply with your members at that point, not just your course uptake customers, but your members. And you communicate with them in your community. You can update materials, you can add materials, you can upsell to one-on-one coaching calls or a higher ticket mastermind group or another course, you know, or just anything. And so, yeah, that's such an important lever to be able to pull to keep that connection. And you're absolutely right. Almost no one, like fewer than 10% of people who purchase a course actually complete it. Yep. And That, that is kind of a, a bit of a hairy model, right? Like if you're selling something, a one-time product to one person and they don't end up getting the value out of it for whatever reason, it may be, you know, from no fault on your own. You may have a fantastic course with all the right information and data that they need to get their problem solved, but they may just not do it. And at least with the membership model, you have the opportunity to draw them back in and provide value to them in a variety of ways, not just, hey, do this asynchronous course. Goodbye and good luck kind of a situation.

Exactly. And I've seen too that when you host courses and communities in different places, you'll find that some people will only ever go to the community if you're using Kajabi in a Facebook group. It's like some people you'll see log into the content, but they're like, no, no, I don't want the community. And then they never see it versus when maybe they just want the community and they've never once watched a piece of content. So the conversations in the Facebook group aren't as impactful, but putting them together when you have events courses and community all in the one place, it's kind of like the grocery store putting the milk right at the back. You gotta walk past all the delicious treats that I always end up buying to get the thing that you actually want. And that is kind of why we start MemberUp with the community being the center stage because they have to go past it on the way to getting the content. Maybe there's a really great conversation that they never would've seen had they not had to log in and go via the community to find what they're actually looking for in the content. So it's really important nowadays. Like I said, it's shifted. People used to be okay, I think, with just buying information. And people also used to be okay, creators, with like a 10% completion rate. Now we're seeing so much more competition because the space is heating up. People are, you know, more and more people are becoming involved in this, that it's a baseline now that you have to have support. It's a baseline in a course that you have to have a community. And so if you're thinking that way and you're like, well, I'm gonna have to have a community to support these people, I'm gonna have to have a platform that puts it in the same place. Then you may as well also have that platform be one that's super easy to use and a place that you can also gain more customers, which is what we're thinking about. Goes back to discoverability and then also upsell to your point, because something that we're building in, we don't have it just yet. We're starting serving a very specific type of creator and that is the more beginner to intermediate creator. Our long-term vision is to serve the people like you and I who have all the different business model ideas who are like, oh, maybe I could do an upsell here and I could just have this be locked and it could be a one-click upsell. So you might have someone in that community that's thriving in the community. They've already completed your content and then you release another course and it has a little lock button over it and then one click, they can buy it just like on Amazon. So that's kind of the vision that we're working toward. We are new right now, so we're not just, we're not there yet, but that's kind of where we're headed because yeah, I see everything that you're saying too, where you need a place to be able to facilitate the technical parts of that, that also feels really great for your members.

Yeah, definitely. And I feel like that this framing of releasing your course as an annual membership on a platform like MemberUp that has all these built-in community features, it's really simple to use from a technical perspective, um, reduces the barrier of entry. At least, you know, a lot of creators I think have a mental block toward launching a membership site that centers around, I don't have a plan for how I'm going to keep up with the content and how much I'm going to participate in the community. And so maybe if you adjust the expectation in that I'm here for responding to questions within my MemberUp community, and you've got access to the course, kind of gives time to build that community and kind of find your footing as a creator to see if continuing with the membership model, continuing to add new content and employing kind of an evergreen marketing strategy and things like that, making a really truly compelling ongoing offer to firmly establish your MRR or monthly recurring revenue or ARR. annual recurring revenue in a very predictable, sustainable, and profitable way. So like, what a great way to dip your toe in the water. I like that.

Absolutely. Yeah. And this is why we provide education along with the platform too, because we find a lot of people don't just need tech. Tech really just facilitates, again, a transformation for the creator. They're looking to go from where they are to where they wanna be. So knowing that we have the strategy, we need to give that alongside the technical part so that someone can actually come in and have a good experience with the tech. So A way that we describe it is that there are basically 2 different types of content. And I'll share with you kind of our Seed Member launch strategy, which we've developed to really take the pressure off. Because I know it can be really intimidating when maybe you have an audience, maybe you're trying to build one, maybe you're just getting started. And the thought of launching a digital product, I know it, it feels like, oh my God, everyone's going to judge me. What if no one buys? You know, you're freaking out about it. And then you also have the commitment issues of like, what if I do this and only 3 people join and then I have to keep up with it for 20 years of my life. And so, what we recommend is we actually teach a seed member launch. It's kind of like your founding member launch. And within that, you start with, you only need an audience of about a couple hundred people that are engaged around a certain topic. If you don't have that, we'll teach you how to build it. But once you've got that couple hundred people that are engaged on a social media platform, on your email list, in a Facebook group around that topic, you're ready to do your seed launch. And the really cool thing is I actually did the seed launch strategy because everything we teach, we do, which is not common, unfortunately. Especially in the education industry. But I actually did this and I share my case study with everyone because I launched— I previously had that financial education company. Now, MemberUp's my main focus. And I was like, you know what? I love teaching finance. I still have a lot of the content. People are always reaching out to me for it. Why don't I just test the Seed Launch strategy? So, I did. And what I did is I had no content ready, by the way. I hadn't filmed. This was content from years ago. So, I knew I'd need to redo it and zhuzh it up a little bit.

Yeah.

No content, no nothing. Literally just the vision for what the community was going to be. Did the seed launch strategy where I just painted the vision on social media and in a few emails. I said, hey guys, I'm thinking about creating this community. This is what I envision it becoming. This is who I envision it being for. Send me a DM with the word like me or something if you're— if this is for you. Cool thing about that is that it's not public. So for someone that is a little bit nervous about like, oh, what if I fail publicly? It's a really good, easy, low-pressure way, cuz no one knows. 100 people could DM you, 1,000 people or no one, and there's no social proof of it. So that's a really good way to take the pressure off in the beginning. Then what I did, because I had a lot of people interested, is I said, cool, I'm gonna give you a special rate to join. Just to let you know, this isn't actually gonna kick off for 2 months from now. Like the content and the actual curriculum isn't gonna kick off for 2 months, but I'm gonna put you in a community so that I can actually start getting to know you. You can get to know everyone else and you're gonna form the community with me. And what this did was it basically paid me over $100K, by the way, to get a focus group of people interested in the topic to basically tell me exactly what they wanted. So there was no guesswork from me of going, oh, what was the curriculum? What stage are people at? They came into the community, they started, they already were getting to know one another and they were interacting in there. They felt really connected to me because I was in there asking them periodically like, hey guys, I'm creating this piece of content. What struggles do you have? Or, you know, what questions do you have around it? And so I was getting direct feedback. They were all connecting. And then by the time the course already kicked off, they were super connected to it. I knew exactly that I wouldn't have to recreate that course because I knew exactly I was solving their problems. And like I said, I got paid to validate my idea and create my community. So that's kind of the way that we suggest launching it. Now, in terms of the content, I think often people think, oh no, with a membership or whatever we're calling it, anything recurring, I'm going to have to create so much content. I'm just going to have to become a content machine. I've seen a lot of big YouTubers that I've spoken with say this and they're like, we're already creating so much for YouTube. How do we sustain more? And again, I go back to that transformation. Once I've created my 7 modules, that's it. There's no more core content, which is what we call it. What it turns into is ritual content. So we have core content and ritual content. Core content is the transformation content that lives in the library and is a course, so to speak. Your ritual content is what rituals do you have in the community? Do you come together on a call once a month? Do you have like an in-person meetup? That's what really keeps the community part of it going. And you don't need to consistently create more and more and more content for your library. And often that's what people will leave because of, because it's hard to watch a lot of content. Often we think as a creator, oh no, like I need to provide all this value. So I'm gonna create all of this content. And we don't think about what that does to a member. On a member's side, they're thinking, oh my God, there's so much content in this membership and I haven't consumed any of it. I'm gonna cancel. I think about that. Like sometimes I'll subscribe to Netflix and then I'm like, I'm not watching Netflix. Let me just cancel it. And so that's the same thing. Like we often get so caught up in us wanting to provide value that we forget about the member's journey. And they don't want too much. They want just the right amount. They just want their problem solved and they want a community. So I say start bare bones. Do the seed member launch. Like I said, we have a whole webinar on this at memberup.com. It's completely free that you can go through and watch where I kind of break down exactly how to do this. And then from there, if you don't even want to, like I have media skills and it's not my first course creation rodeo, so I just created it and it was totally fine. But what we say to people who don't yet have those skills or maybe don't have the time is just deliver it live, like on a call like this. So you can kick your curriculum off a week or 2 weeks from, or even 2 months even. I probably wouldn't leave it more than 2 months. 2 months after your Seed Member launch, just schedule a call like this. You've got all these amazing people on the call and you're delivering maybe through some slides that you've created. So it is structured. You're not just kind of riffing to these people and then just record that. And then the first iteration of your course is it's all done and you've just delivered it live. And people feel really good about that because they get to sit with you and ask you questions face-to-face. So it's really quite simple when you break it down like that. And I think lowering the barrier to entry is really important for creators because It's very easy to look at people who have very established businesses and be like, oh no, I need to have all of these things in place. But it's not actually what people want. They just wanna be a part of your community and they want, they want the transformation and you can deliver that in a very, very low effort way for the beginning part of it. And then you can always get better and iterate as you go along. So I, I kind of think we—

Yeah.

Like I said, we can go deep here. We kind of spurred off on a tangent, but, uh, but yeah, I think that's kind of how I see, um, you know, the best way to really begin in this space.

You just covered so many different business principles that I love. I'm sitting here counting in my head, like customer-funded business, quantitative and qualitative voice of customer research, and quick turnaround on creating exact painkiller content for your, for your community. We're talking about organizing content that you already have so that it does create that journey or the transformation for your customer and repurposing and maximizing content and working smart. Not just hard, but really, really smart so that you can be very efficient. Oh, I like that a lot. Thank you for covering all that. And you just, you know, massively reduced any sort of like mental barrier to entry for starting a membership site. I hope for anyone listening, if you are on the fence about this, I hope that you're seeing that it's— a membership is for far more creators than it is not for creators. Like there's very few creators who are subject matter experts who could not run a successful membership community. Um, in my experience at least. So

absolutely like that. Yeah. And we spent some time—

and this takes the pressure.

Oh, go ahead. Sorry. I was

just going to say this, everything, everything we're saying, like takes the pressure off of a course launch. There's so much pressure around a course launch and like, don't screw it up. Don't screw it up. Don't screw it up. Cause this is my one shot to make income this year. A membership completely solves that problem and is a major, I think, stress reducer rather than something that's continuing to pile on to You know, already massively fueled creator burnout.

For sure. And I mean, I've seen that as a beginner in business and all the way to, you know, being really successful in business. I've had courses and recurring revenue alongside each other because it kind of naturally evolved. I started with courses and then we, we added the membership component on. And what I noticed is that when I'm a beginner, it's the greatest thing in the world to sell once and then the next month be like, oh, I did nothing. And there's still revenue coming in. That's a really cool feeling. But even at the higher level, it's like, oh, I wanna scale the team. How do we do that when we have no budget that we can actually rely on coming in? Then that creates that pressure like you were speaking about of like, we gotta do a launch and the launch has to perform. And then again, the next month you're starting at zero again. And in, you know, my own business, also in Boss Babe's business, I saw the membership be kind of the backbone of the business. It's what actually allows you to scale. And when your efforts are focused on other launches, which can be supplemental and really still a great thing to do, you still have that foundation of the recurring revenue. So it depends on kind of your audience size and what your customer journey is as to where a membership fits in. But I think for the basic person that's just looking to get started and they're thinking about doing an online course, just do it as an annual membership instead. And do it in a really simple, simple way. I think people get very, very confused and they overcomplicate things in the beginning. I'm sure you've seen this as well, where, you know, we're just getting started in business and we've seen so-and-so creator with the very fancy everything and we're like, oh, I need the very fancy everything. And when you really strip everything away, people just want a transformation and a community. So it's, it's basically just go back to that. Start simple and demonstrate that you're the person that they should look to to help them produce that income or that, well, maybe income, but that transformation, right? I think so many people get very, very confused about the marketing of it all too. And they're like, oh, do I have to like do Instagram Lives every week? And do I have to like send these really complicated email automations? And the most basic thing that I recommend, and we're doing a tutorial on this within MemberUp University as well, education component, Is you just have to present the dream outcome on social media. So why I was able to be successful before I had any digital marketing awareness whatsoever with my first financial education company was because I was presenting the dream outcome unbeknownst to me. I was showing up on YouTube. I have a very cringey but very successful video called 22-Year-Old Girl Buys Lamborghini. We were like lifestyle vloggers at the time. And that video, again, I wasn't thinking about it through that lens at the time of like, oh, I'm going to show up and present the dream outcome. I just was creating 22-year-old girl content. And that did that really effectively. People looked at it and went, oh, how do I get that? And I didn't have to market or email automation, or I didn't have to do anything because that connected immediately with someone's desire. Hey, she has a life that I want to have. And I think go back to that when we're talking about marketing, even with advanced business owners, I have this conversation often where they're doing all these ads and all these things. And I'm like, guys, are you showing up on social media? Are you just sharing with your audience? And it doesn't have to be a Lamborghini. You're a fitness coach. Are you showing that you're fit and healthy? If you have a cooking membership, are you showing delicious meals that I'm constantly sharing with my friends and my partner on social media so he cooks them for me? So you just have to put that transformation in front of people constantly. And most creators, they're already doing that. So adding on, you know, a paid component is an absolute no-brainer. They've already built up, I'm sure, a lot of trust with their audiences, a lot of kind of desire for whatever lifestyle or transformation these people want. They've already built that. So then when it comes time to launch, they've already done all the hardest part, I think, which really is building that trust, really is building the audience. So if you're an established creator that doesn't have digital products yet, Oh man, there is so much more that is like on the table. And the really cool thing and why I love what you guys are doing is because you don't even necessarily need to run that yourself. There are companies that will come in and support you and be the integrator or the operator of the business because you guys can support each other. The integrators can actually run the business side of things and just say, creator, we need you to do this thing and this thing. And they take care of everything, which is like so valuable. Creators get to focus on creating. And yeah, I've seen that business model perform really, really well because the creative types— I'm formerly more of a creative type. Now, I sit more in my logical mind most of the time. But the creative types really want to be able to have kind of a lot more flowy lifestyle, a lot more freedom, and not really be involved in the day-to-day runnings of the business. And the integrators, like you and I, we love to really dive deep in the data and do all the nerdy stuff, so to speak. And so, that's like a dream pairing is when you have a creator and an integrator running a business together. Again, unbeknownst to me, the best partnerships that I've had throughout my careers have been that pairing. You know, in hindsight, it's very clear. But if you're a creator that doesn't necessarily wanna do all those things, like work with a company like Level Up Creators to actually do the parts of it that you don't wanna do, because there is so much money and so much income and fulfillment that you are leaving on the table if you don't add on digital products to, you know, the outward-facing brand that you already have.

Amen. I was just going to sit here and listen to you all day on that. Thanks for the plug. All right. Well, let's shift gears a little bit to talking, adding some context and color to what a successful membership community looks like. So we've talked about core content, we've talked about community, and we've talked about ritual content. So do you have examples of creators on MemberUp, or maybe if not specific examples, what are the commonalities that you can draw between those who are most successful on the MemberUp platform? What's their offer? Obviously, they're probably offering a compelling transformation for their members. But when the rubber meets the road here, what kind of core content do they have? How often are they doing ritual content and what type? How active are these creators in their actual community discussion forums? Things like that.

Yeah, good question. And it really comes down to, you know, what is actually being offered in the community, because it can look— success can look different depending on who you're serving. Let me give you an example. We have a mastermind that's run on MemberUp who are 7 and 8-figure business owners, and they don't want to log in every day. They don't want calls all the time because they're CEOs of companies and they're busy running businesses. And so, that community is very, very successful with actually a lot less input, a lot less content versus a community like mine, my personal finance community, I'm working with a lot of people who need daily habits. And so something that I've done really successfully is create a daily accountability channel. And within that, every single day they post what did they— I have a little— we do this within MemberUp as well. And I tell this to everyone, please feel free to steal it if you're listening. It's definitely not an idea that I'm trying to gatekeep, but it works really well. We have a channel that's all dedicated to sharing what you did yesterday, what you did today, any blockers or any callouts. And you can kind of tweak that to be in line with what your community is about. Mine's about finance. So, I basically say, what did you do yesterday to grow 1%? Not necessarily financially, but just grow 1% as a human and work toward your goals. And so, that's the whole premise. Every single day, everyone's in there sharing what they did and any blockers, which is great because then I can see what they're struggling with and it helps me kind of create ideas for future calls. It helps them support one another. And that has been really, really cool because— Yeah. Sometimes, you know, we want to come together around a certain topic, but sometimes life happens. And, you know, they're in a personal finance community, but, you know, one lady just shared like, oh, she had an incident with her teenager on the weekend and that was really hard. And that's when then the human aspect comes out and it's kind of giving people a forum to be vulnerable and to actually connect. And that's when I find the deepest community connections actually come to life is when you're providing a curated space for that. So you're allowing it and it doesn't just become like Instagram where you're just sharing everything about your life. Right. It's kind of, yeah, it's a forum where people can share more personal details. Everyone loves it because they can also see what others are thriving in and celebrate that, but then they can also see where they're struggling too. So, it makes you feel like you're not alone as you're going through all of the challenges on the road to any different outcome. So, I really love for a community that is supported by that, like again, the 7, 8-figure CEO community, they don't want that. They don't want to log in every day. But for a community like mine where people are really trying to create massive change in their financial situation, The daily accountability is like really, really key. So, it's not necessarily a like black and white model where one size fits all. It's really identifying, and I think that is probably the way to answer your question. The best and most successful communities know how to serve their communities really, really well. They know their customers, they know their members, and they're constantly just looking for feedback. And that is how you're going to gain those insights. I, to this day, still ask people, You know, oh, like, would you like more business content in here? Or what would that look like for you if I were to provide a forum for that? It doesn't mean that I'll actually execute on every idea, but I'm very, very connected to the community and what they actually want. And I think that is, that's marketing 101. You know, people think of marketing as like sales and pitching and all these things, but it's not. It's really just deeply knowing the people that you're serving and creating solutions for them. So, I'd say that is the common theme of success in any community is how deeply do you actually know the members within it and what they're searching for? 'Cause when you do take the time to reach out or use Spark, which is built into our platform. So Spark is basically rotating questions every 24 hours. So how I use it in my community is kind of have a bunch of different questions in there. Some are geared for connections, some are geared to gather testimonials, some are geared to get feedback. And so periodically I'll pop a little Spark question in there. We have them there by default too, but if you don't, if you wanted to kind of switch it up, I'll pop one in there and be like, hey, what would you like more? Like if I did an event, would you guys be interested? And so I use that as a way to gather feedback constantly. That's just on autopilot. I don't really have to think about it. And then I can always see the responses and go back to them and be like, oh yeah, people did want that event. So I think it's setting up systems and that's why we're trying to build as much into the product as possible to facilitate that without you having to do it. But it's setting up systems to just stay in touch with your community. Because I think the, the biggest thing in the most successful businesses that I've seen is that it's, it's really caring, which is not a metric that you can really look for, but it's definitely the through line of every single company that I've seen succeed is really caring and also the customers feeling that they are cared for. So yeah, that's the commonality I would say.

Yeah, I like that. The human element is so important. It's like you're already doing the work as a creator to curate content, solve problems, and you're gathering at least somewhat like-minded people. There's some commonalities amongst your members and just providing space, safe space for Real-life conversations to happen. So I think that's incredibly valuable and an often overlooked piece of this. You know, it's a part of a product suite, right? Like a membership should be the cash cow that funds other things and opens all sorts of other doors and allows for upsells and LTV maximization, all that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, you are a creator who is hosting a group of humans with real lives and real needs and real problems that you're solving some of those. But I think, um, if you, if you are creating the space for those real-life conversations to happen, happen, I think your retention numbers will reflect that in a very, very positive way. And so I don't mean that— I don't mean that to sound icky at all or anything like that, but like, you're not bait and switching people into some sort of like weird community thing or anything like that. But I think that's just an important thing to remember, is that it's not all about what you're bringing to the table in a membership community. It's about what your members are bringing to the table too. And having your ear to the ground And I didn't really even think about using Spark, your automated question generator, as a way to gather social proof and get feedback and get ideas for content. That's brilliant. And that's, man, again, talk about lowering the barrier of entry to get into a membership. It's like a lot of community owners or creators are concerned about the amount of time they're going to have to spend in their discussion forum. And if their forums are just going to be, you know, cricket sounds kind of a thing. But with Spark, you guys are enabling and instigating daily conversation, asking meaningful questions. And I like the little thing, the requirement is that you have to answer the question before you can see other people's responses. That's such a great psychological aspect, I guess, to bring in. How did you guys come up with that?

Yeah, so that was a fun one. We were thinking about what is a differentiator, because to your point in the beginning of the call, you know, there are a lot of platforms out there. So we were trying to think about what differentiates us, what are we really optimizing for. And engagement, you know, that is something that people struggle with in other platforms. We've done a lot of surveys with creators using other platforms and they all say, oh, I went back to Facebook 'cause the engagement on X platform wasn't great. And so knowing that that was a problem that creators had, we were like, okay, how can we create engagement in a platform in a way that keeps members coming back every day? It's like Instagram, right? I know that there's a story that disappears every 24 hours. Even if I don't care about what's going on, I'm just conditioned to go and log in every single day because Because it's the nature of the stories. So we kind of took that concept and then we thought, okay, well, how do we get a member logging in every day, but also take the job off of the creator of having to provide that? And so that's how we came up with Spark. And then we were like, ah, but what if people lurk in the community? Because lurkers exist, right? Like, I'm a lurker on social media. I appreciate a lot of content, but I don't interact with a lot of content. So that's probably a good case study for this. And so, we came up with this requirement that to see other people's answers, you had to answer the question yourself. So, basically, how Spark works is there'll be like a juicy question and it'll say like, share your answer to view answers from 40 other members. And so, you know, depending on the question, maybe the question's something like, you know, what's the most inappropriate thought you've had lately or something like that, right? Depending on the nature of the community. If I can see someone in the community that I'm like friends with or know, maybe my partner's in there and I see that his, 'cause you can see their little profile picture and I'm like, he's answered that, then it gets me curious, right? Like, what did he answer? But I can't see it unless I provide the answer. So it's basically a way to reward people for taking the actions that we want them to take in the community and just reverse engineering that a little bit. But yeah, we're just getting started with Spark. There's a lot that we wanna do to kind of facilitate connection in the community without it being the creator's job. So yeah, that's, that's kind of the backstory of how that all came together.

Solving problems for creators, knocking down one domino at a time here. I like it. You guys are very methodical. I know, I know. I'm super excited.

Thank you. Me too. We were talking, yeah, we were talking behind this call. I wish it could go quicker, but yeah, we're shipping new features every, every couple of weeks and that's exciting. So we'll get there.

Yes. And you're still providing boatloads of value to anyone on your platform at this point. So it seems like the rest is gravy at this point. So it's pretty, pretty exciting that you're

still

pushing the envelope.

Absolutely.

I, I suffer from that same affliction. I understand. It's probably good that I'm not running a software company.

Oh yeah, it's definitely, uh, forced me out of that. I would say now I'm a functional perfectionist where I used to be a nonfunctional perfectionist. I'm sure creatives can relate to this. One of the common things that the conversations that we have with creators are like, oh, I want the content to be perfect, so I'm just going to post one piece of content a month. It's not about that. It's about staying top of mind. If it's 80, 70% good, post it and be consistent because that wins every time. And it's the same in software. So I've learned that lesson over the years and hopefully if anyone's listening that relates to that, you can get on the functional perfectionist train along with me.

Yeah. Yeah. I think Brené Brown says don't strive for perfectionism, but it's more like a healthy striving for excellence. And so I'm trying to at least reframe that in my brain. But there's a little— I have some cognitive dissonance in between them, my thoughts and actions at this point. So we're trying to bridge that gap a little bit, but

that's

okay. We're works in progress. That's right.

That's for sure.

All right. So for— I had about 13 questions and I think we've gotten through 4, but we're kind of bouncing around to different ones here. But let's talk about next steps for a creator who is considering launching a membership product, what are the questions they should be asking themselves? What should they be asking of their community? And then what are like really tangible next steps to take?

Yeah, so if a creator has an audience, let's say on Instagram, I would start with literally doing a Seed Member launch. That is the first step. People often spend a lot of time drawing maps. They're on their ship, they're safe in the harbor, they're drawing the maps, and then they never actually set sail. And so one thing that I really love about the Seed Member Launch is it is doing everything all at once. It's gathering the feedback, it's validating your idea, it's talking to members, and it's making money all at once. And through the Seed Member Launch, you might identify, oh, there's no demand for this thing that I thought I was gonna create. That's really useful information to have right off the bat before you create anything. And that is all just achieved through really just sending a series of intentional messages, painting the vision for what you wanna create and seeing if anyone kind of And then talking to those people and offering them a choice to join. Because often what you'll find is when you're, especially when you survey like friends or family who want to be really supportive of you and you pitch them your business idea, they're like, I'd totally join. But that is not a true indicator of the validity of the idea. And so putting it in front of real customers and seeing if they actually put their money where their mouth is, that is the ultimate determinant. And so that's why I like just doing all that right up front. And a lot of people, you know, they put a lot of pressure on the launch, right, of anything. And so, like I said, this just takes away all that pressure because you're always just getting data. And with data, you can make better decisions. Oh, only, you know, I have an audience of, let's say, 100,000 people and only 2 people said yes. Okay, the idea needs some refinement. That's okay. Maybe, you know, my audience doesn't have people that want this transformation. And we help people kind of walk through the steps of if you don't get any bites. What to do about it. That might be, like I said, that the audience isn't really caring about that topic. I have an engaged audience around personal finance and business, but if I launched a fishing offer, it wouldn't go so well, even though my audience are really engaged. I would probably get about 2 people who joined. And so, it's about creating not just an offer, but an aligned offer for your audience. So, that's kind of the first step in helping identify, is it aligned? And the other thing that can happen is a lot of people think they have an audience, but they're like, oh, I haven't emailed my list in like 4 years. I'm like, then you need to reengage that list a little bit first, right?

Yeah.

And so like I said, the Seed Member Launch just identifies everything right off the bat. Best case, it happens like for me where I had an aligned offer, I had an audience of people who were ready for it. I did the Seed Member Launch, got paid to build my community. Worst case, So, you are validating your idea in a really intelligent way that has no downside because no one's going to see you fail publicly, which failure doesn't exist. It only exists if you give up. But let's say, yeah, let's say that that does happen. You put an offer out, you're really excited about it, and then ultimately no one buys. Great. Now you've got information. You can actually go and reach out to some people and say like, hey, I know that you're in my audience and you probably saw this post. I'm just curious, why wasn't it something that you're interested in? And you can start just surveying people. It all goes back. I'm sure you're kind of seeing the theme here. It all goes back to just talking to people. And I think with digital offers, a lot of the time we kind of take the human out of it and we just see it as like stats and data and like, oh, my email is size and it's all just numbers. But really it's just like, start with 10 people, start by talking to those people, gather feedback, create a great offer for those 10 people, then get the testimonials, then invite more people. And it really is a progression. And I think one of the things that people really struggle with is seeing the big numbers on social media. Everyone shares all the success stories and they don't share what it took to actually get there. And I'm guilty of it too because I did have massive numbers in the beginning. The audience that I had on YouTube was huge. If I was starting out from scratch, it would've been a lot more of a progressive experience. And I noticed that now as I go into different businesses, Because I am being more progressive with things. I don't have an aligned audience right off the bat of 100 million people who want MemberUp right this second. And so I'm taking different approaches. It's not that because I had an audience around one thing, I should just be able to sell everything and forever until the end of time. Again, it has to be aligned. I wish it were that way, but it's just not true. So yeah, I really think it all comes right up front, just knowing, just doing the Seed Member launch, getting the feedback. And then also paying attention to what is it as a creator that you want? What are you optimizing for? It's like one of my favorite questions. If you're like, well, I want to create an impact and I wanna get paid well enough that I don't have to do anything else, that's great information. If you're someone that's like, well, you know, I actually don't wanna do— I know people like this, they're like, I don't wanna do any work and I don't care about connecting with people. And that's okay. Like, that's totally fine. But then you have to consider like, well, how is my future going to look, you know, a month from now? Am I going to enjoy running this? Because I think ultimately, yeah, business has ups and downs and parts that none of us like doing at times, but for the most part, am I going to enjoy doing this venture? And if the answer is not a wholehearted, like, yeah, I'm pretty damn sure so, then it's probably not for you. Mm-hmm. Even if you're working with an integrator, you want to enjoy what you're doing. Like, that's kind of my whole ethos and why I ended up not working at a bank is because Because I want to create a life that I love. And I think everyone should do that. So, I think it's really, yes, do the Seed Member Launch. Yes, that's all the technical parts of it. But really look within too and go, what do I really want? And just list it out. Do I want money, creativity, impact? Then 1,000%, I think creating a digital product where you can go deeper than just on a social media platform is something that allows that. And I'm walking proof of it. But if that doesn't align with you, then forge your own path. It's not for everyone. And I think it's okay to just know what you want and what you don't want and go, you know what? I don't want to create a digital product. I don't really care about helping people to get a transformation. If that's not you, like, that's fine, but it's, it's probably not for you to serve a community because it is, it's service, you know?

That's right.

We have to be real about that.

Yeah, definitely. I appreciate that you brought up failure and overnight successes and how you never, there's no such thing as an overnight success. I mean, I just have not ever personally seen it to be honest. And I hate that people don't share the level of failure and pain and heartache and blood, sweat, and tears that went into their success because Because it dangles this carrot that's highly unrealistic. And I just don't appreciate that kind of marketing either. But, uh, the beauty of a membership is that your work is additive. You're, you can start with 10 members and it's totally okay and valid and legitimate to start with 10 or to fail 12 times before you get to your first 10 members. Because once you've got 10, Amy's exactly right. You can turn on the social proof machine. You can start to get kind words from those members and spin that back into your marketing. And it creates this virtuous cycle. Uh, that is again additive and aggregates into this beautiful thing I mentioned earlier, MRR, monthly recurring revenue. Absolutely. That serves as a strong basis for revenue in your business that can fund all sorts of other projects for you. Um, again, we're really big at Level Up Creators on having a suite of products and services that you offer to your community. Um, and, and hopefully they would kind of lead from one to the next, to the next, to maximize the amount of money that a customer pays you over time. It's called LTV. And yeah, I think you put all that really, really beautifully. And Amy, do you fish?

Do I fish? I

could not think of a more like left-field example for you to come up with.

Well, I don't even know where that came from because no, I absolutely do not fish. But I think where it came from is I do give an example within MemberUp University because a lot of people have this idea for a community and then they judge it and they're like, no, no, There's no audience around that. No one cares. Because basically we teach people how to take a topic they love and turn it into a profitable recurring revenue business. And so a lot of people are like, well, I love goldfish. And so what I do is I go on, literally, I'll go on Facebook groups and I type in goldfish and there are groups with 400,000 people around that topic.

Yeah.

There's a lot of examples for some reason that I give around aquariums. I think it's because it's something left field that But it's not directly what we think of monetizing a lot of the time, right? Like if you've got a fish tank, you're not like, oh, let me monetize what I love and turn this fish tank into recurring revenue. But then you look at groups like that and you're like, oh my goodness, there are so many people just like me that love this topic, that just wanna be amongst people, you know, on a similar journey. And it is wild. Like I go into those groups and I'm like, wow, there's a lot to learn about fish tanks. I'm not the person, I'm not the ideal member for this group, but wow. So I always go back to that example for some reason. I don't know why it stuck with me, But yeah, don't fish.

I couldn't let that go. But, um, I'm actually really glad that I said that and you said what you said, because this whole concept of like the total addressable market, the number of people interested in the topic that you're an expert in and what they might potentially pay you, if you can capture just a critical mass of the total addressable market in the thing that you are an expert in, you've got a business. There is a market for the most wildly unusual, peculiar niche topics out there. I mean, I mean, I've consulted for some of the strangest membership ideas that, I mean, nothing I could ever possibly conceive of in my wildest dreams. And

well, now I'm curious, like what? Like what?

Intelligence on North Korea.

Wow. Okay. Yeah, that's pretty left field.

Like, you know, that level. I'm trying to— that's probably the most like wild an off-the-wall example, but

yeah,

people interested in— oh no, that's, that's definitely the best example I'm gonna be able to come up with. I'm gonna have to come back and like look at that. Maybe I'll insert them into the YouTube video or something. But so bizarre, so bizarre. I mean, there's a— there are communities or people waiting to be gathered around a community with curated content where an expert is feeding them information about the thing that they crave and are hungry for. Absolutely. And if that person is you, there are those people on the internet. The internet is huge and there's a whole big world out there and there truly is something for everybody. And so I like, um, the question that you posed earlier, Amy, that you said that you ask people frequently. My version of that question is, to what end? Like a creator could create infinite things. Uh, typically if you're an expert, there's all sorts of directions that you could go, or if you are interested in multiple things, there's even more options, but to what end? And so if you can sort of hone in on a— home in on a strategy, uh, like, where am I trying to go? Where am I now? Where am I trying to go? What's keeping me from getting there? And if you can, like I said you're doing earlier, knock down those dominoes to get there, um, there's a high 6 or 7-figure business waiting for you on the other end of that. And I bet you're not going to get there without recurring revenue products, really, really and truly.

Yeah.

Um, so I would encourage anybody who's sitting here having light bulbs Go off, go to memberup.com and check out what Amy's team is offering. It is incredibly compelling. They have reduced the barrier to entry more than I think any other membership platform out there. And it's just not that hard to get started and it's okay to fail at it too. And like, you'll get there. Every failure gets you closer and closer to success. Like Amy and I were talking about earlier at the beginning of the show. We've both had extremely nonlinear paths and there's no way I'm sure either of us could have 20 years ago predicted where we would be now, but it's super cool. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the creator economy has opened up so many doors for average people. And I mean, that's obviously why it's growing so quickly is because, you know, we previously, if we wanted to get information across the world, had to take out an ad in the paper or do like these crazy things that were just not accessible to Regular people like you and I. And nowadays, it's such a gift, I think, to be able to pick up your phone and just have access to millions and millions, literally billions of people if you're doing it right with your phone. And to not take advantage of that, I think, is almost not realizing the opportunity that you have. And again, it's not for everyone. It's not saying that everyone needs a personal brand, everyone needs a membership or a course or anything like that. But I really do think that if you're someone that has achieved anything, which is pretty much everyone, Then you have an idea because the best thing to do if you're trying to think of like, well, what can my community idea be? It's just look at your story. Go, what have I achieved? Like mine, if you look back at mine, I was like, well, what have I achieved? That's what people wanted to know. How'd you do that? How'd you do that thing? If you're the person with the fish tank, it's like, you know, how did you acclimate this fish in your fish tank? Like people want to know what you know. And everyone has a story. And I think that's the really cool part about it. You know, our stories have overlapping parts, which is why we've ended up serving, you know, similar types of people. But everyone has a story. And if you're trying to come up with a business idea, I think that's like one of the main things that I could probably share in this discussion is just like, think about your story. Stop trying to create like the next Apple or something like that. A lot of people are like, I want to start my own app and all these things. And it's like, just look at your story and teach that first. It's a really great way to earn incredible money. And that foundation can lead to a multitude of things. You have no idea where the journey's going to lead. I had no idea that I was going to be You know, a tech CEO at 33 years old? Absolutely no idea. But it all started with the creator economy. And thankfully, that audience of people that watched me do that a long time ago, you know, a lot of them are still with me nowadays because I've just kept them up to date with the story. So, I go back to story a lot. And I think it seems fitting because it's the intersection of what is your business idea and also just being a creator is just telling your story. So, yeah, I would say to anyone that's wondering how to get started, just Just get out a notepad, just start writing down what you've achieved. And I guarantee you that there is a successful community idea in there somewhere.

Definitely. And that's something that we all have is a story. We all have a story of our life. And you may not think that your life has been unique or everybody knows that already. Like, bullshit. No, they don't. Start sharing about what you're doing and see what doors open up to you. We talk a lot about this concept of going narrow and deep. Deep within a specific niche. So if you're trying to come up with the next idea that ends up being, you know, Apple or whatever, like stop, you're not gonna do that. That's not even where Apple started, right? Yeah. And so stop trying to serve everyone and figure out what you know from your story, your path, your narrative, what problems could have you faced and overcome, and how can you help others do the same thing, right? How can you help them replicate the success that you have had? And it can be really specific and really niche. I promise there are people out there on the internet who want to hear what you have to say. And if you come across as a genuine, kind, and caring person who truly wants to serve and help others, the sky is the limit for you. There are so few and far between, like, nice people, truly nice and kind people on the internet. You will stand out. Um, yeah, I think, I think that's how the world kind of starts to open up to you, and you can start to reduce the fear about sharing, um, on the internet and being vulnerable and putting your, your face and your words and things like that out

For sure. And I mean, inevitably there's always gonna be the people that don't appreciate what you're doing, that don't get it, that the negativity comes out when you share your content, when you share your products. Like, I think that's one of the main reasons that people stay small is because they're trying to avoid that. And what I commonly share with people is just that people are judging you right now. Even if your strategy is I'm gonna stay small and avoid judgment, still have people judging you. It's just on a smaller scale. I believe in duality where like you're going to have equal amounts of love and hate. It just grows with the scale of people. When 100 million people saw my videos, I got some pretty interesting comments, both good and bad, and it grew in equal size. And I knew, you know, I'm grateful that I learned that early on because now it doesn't faze me. But I think a lot of people, when you're kind of teeter-tottering on the edge of like, will I start a business? Will I put a product out? That is the first hurdle for them to overcome. It's not the logistics because that stuff is actually pretty simple. Yeah. Once you get into it. But I think it's all the emotional stuff, right? What are people going to think? What are they going to say? What if I fail? And it's not even necessarily what others think of us, it's what we think of us. Oh my God, what if I only get 3 sales? And so I think the game is kind of won and lost in our own minds a lot of the time. And so anyone listening that is like, oh, tactically, yeah, sure, that all makes sense, but I'm still sitting on the sidelines because I am just terrified. Yeah. I just share that, like, that's okay. You will be. Just do it scared anyway. And then the next time you go to do it—

Do it scared. Yes.

Yeah. The next time you go to do it, it's going to be a little less scary. And then the next time it'll be a little less scary. And that's kind of how the journey goes. And I don't think that anyone has achieved anything really great without— with avoiding fear. You know, it's just— No. Yeah. Anyway, and do it with a team. That's what makes it, I think, a whole lot more fun is when you do it with people that are behind you, whether, you know, you're working with Amanda and their team because you have someone That can kind of be the voice of reason when all the fears and doubts pop up and go, hey, it's okay. Like, this is what we're going to do about it. Or, you know, whether it's a partner or you got a co-founder on the idea, I think doing with a team makes it a whole lot more fun. And that's also the value of community, right? You're creating that environment for other people now where they get to get the support that they need to go out in the world and do all the things that they want to do. And I think there's so many through lines of why I love what I'm doing now so much, the creator economy, creating community. creating digital products that create change. It's because the intersection of all of those things and it's just helping people become better and creating a better place. So yeah, there's, there's a lot I could say on that, but, uh, I think we have adequately, hopefully motivated the person that's sitting on the fence to, to get out and actually do the thing.

I hope so too. And I'm going to link up in the show notes one of my favorite quotes by Marianne Williamson. And the point— it's a long quote, I'm not going to read it— but the point is you're staying small and playing small and sitting on the sidelines Doesn't help anybody. And so, once you kind of let your light shine and show your face and put yourself out there and be vulnerable, not only does that open doors for you, but it also inspires others to do the same who are on the fence and afraid and scared. So, I love that. Do it scared. Think about your story. Think about what you've overcome and what you've learned from that. And go find other people on the internet who have gone through the same thing that you can help, you know, see them the other way. See the other side of it. And yes, thank you, Amy. We did just post 4 super fresh consulting and implementation packages where we will help you set up your entire MemberUp instance. And they do make it really easy. But if you want to do super pro level, we have got every single possible box checked. We can help you put yourself out there in the best possible light. We can help you with your membership launch plan, evergreen marketing, marketing automation, anything and everything having to do with recurring revenue products and memberships, in particular on MemberUp, we've got you covered. And so between us and MemberUp University, boy, is there a lot of money waiting out there for you and a lot of people that you can provide a lot of value for, value to in exchange for that money. So

absolutely. Yeah. It's just all on the other side of fear and the stories that you tell yourself. That's exactly right. That's

exactly right. Amazing. Well, this has been a super fun and informative conversation. I hope you all who have been listening have enjoyed it. I feel like this has been very indulgent for me and a lot of fun, so I hope I'm not the only one. Amy, do you have a parting shot or anything else you'd like to share before we sign off today?

No, just thank you for obviously sharing the word about MemberUp. Obviously everything that we're doing complements one another so well. I love what you guys are doing and helping creators that don't necessarily have all the skill sets behind the scenes to get started. It is quite easy, but I think it's really cool because you can work with someone and actually show them kind of how to do it and they get to learn alongside you as you help them build their business. So I'm just appreciative of your time, of the conversation, of the support of MemberUp. And yeah, if anyone has any questions that we didn't answer today, I'm sure Amanda will leave a place in the show notes that you can reach out. But any way we can support, I'm just happy to.

Yeah, definitely. Um, y'all go check out memberup.com and check out all the goodies they have for creators just like you. And I'm just going to go ahead and call this part 1 of just an ongoing open-ended conversation. I'm definitely going to have you back if you'll, um, take the time to come back on next season and the next and the next, and we'll just, uh, continue to help people together.

Yeah, I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Yeah. Thank you again, Amy. And we know that your time is precious. Thank you for sharing yours with us. Level Up Creators exists to amplify the voice, reach, and impact of creators making a positive impact in the world. With your expertise as our focus, our team of strategists, marketers, sales pros, product developers, administrators, and tech gurus handle the heavy lifting of building and optimizing a profitable business that will transform your life for good. Subscribe to the show and check out welevelupcreators.com for more info and resources for creators just like you. See you next time on the Level Up Creators Podcast.