Mindfulness and Wellness for Female Entrepreneurs

Hey, hey, you're listening to the Level Up Creators Podcast. Amanda Northcutt here, founder and CEO. We help digital creators build thriving, sustainable businesses they love, and we're so glad you're here. Welcome. My guest, Lucy Cullen, and I have a unique conversation prepared for you today where we cover things like navigating chronic illness while building and scaling companies, the mindset required for success, and building impact-driven businesses. Lucy is an award-winning environmentalist, entrepreneur, and sustainability expert. She is a 4-time founder and has coached over 300 entrepreneurs around the world. She has a slew of awards under her belt, including one of Canada's top 30 under 30 environmentalists and emerging leader by the University of Toronto. Lucy's own entrepreneurial journey took an unexpected turn during COVID when she had a major incident and resulting diagnosis, which led to many lifestyle and business changes, which we are going to unpack today. Welcome, Lucy.

Thank you so much for having me, Amanda. I'm excited to dive in.

Me too. And I would love for you to start off by sharing a little bit more about your background and what led you to become an entrepreneur.

Yes. Okay. So I've been an entrepreneur for 10 years now, and I know it's 10 years because it's— that journey started right when I started my relationship with my partner. So it's easy to remember, but I didn't expect to become an entrepreneur. I Was in school for my undergrad for environmental studies. I was very adamant that I wanted to have a career in the environmental space, pushing for positive change and environmentally speaking. And during my undergrad, I worked in the hospitality industry. So restaurants, hotels, events, you name it, I did it. Kitchen, front of house, everything. And I grew really frustrated with the amount of food waste I was throwing out every single day.

Mm-hmm.

And I, and I'm sure anyone who's worked in food can attest to that. I was really sick of being Lucy, the server walking around telling everyone to compost and stop putting, you know, perfectly good packages of yogurt that hasn't even been opened into the recycling. What? And so I was kind of sick of being Lucy just running around harassing everyone and also was very cognizant that that's not a long-term solution. That doesn't fix the problem at its core. So I had an idea to actually reduce waste at my workplace. And I approached my manager at the time about it and said, hey, I've got this idea for a project. It's a sustainability project. It's going to reduce waste. He was supportive of it. I knew what I wanted to see happen. I wanted a little bit of support to do it in the best way it could possibly be done. And And through that, I connected with who became my co-founder in my first company. And it like, it didn't, it just started as a project at my workplace and then snowballed into a company where we kind of went, oh, we, I guess we should have a name. I, we can't really be the, like the group of people walking around and helping other restaurants because when we looked around at the Toronto, 'cause I'm in Toronto in Canada. Yeah. When we looked around at Toronto, No one else is doing this work. When we looked Canada-wide, nobody else is doing this work of reducing waste in the hospitality industry and saving money for their clients.

Mm-hmm.

This also was a number of years ago. This is happening a lot more private, like this is a lot more of this is happening now, but it wasn't at the time. And that's where we went, okay, well let's, yeah, let's turn this into a business. And it's through that whole experience where I kind of accidentally started my first company. Well, not accidentally, but unintentionally because I was so focused on the mission at hand, that I learned I love entrepreneurship and I love building a business that addresses a social and/or environmental problem. And then I fell in love with that. And that turned into me also co-launching a catering company with my partner, which that operated for a number of years, and also having a dog treat business called Earth Pup, which is my most recent venture. And that was a dog treat company that reduced waste in the food supply chain and took perfectly good food, usually discarded, we should be eating it, and turned it into natural, healthy dog treats. And that was my most recent venture other than this coaching one. So that's kind of how I came to be where I am now. And that's also provided the opportunity which I'm really grateful for, to consult on some really interesting international projects and other startups in the waste space. Because I also do some work in plastic waste specifically as well. And I'm now on a policy council and I've done a little bit of consulting and expert advisory for the United Nations and the Canadian government on impact entrepreneurship. So yeah, and that's how we got here.

So you've done, you know, just a couple things in the last 10 years, just a little bit, right?

Just a little bit. It's funny reflecting on it now because I'm like, wow, That doesn't— like, when you're moving through it, as I'm sure you can attest in a lot of ways, it just— you're kind of just going from one thing to the next and having a lot of highs and a lot of lows. But it's interesting looking back on it where I go, wow, go me, you know? That's

right.

I'm proud of me. I'm proud of me.

Damn straight. I love that you're saying that. That's right. Uh, I mean, I really, really do. I think that we've got to like set that example for sure. And so, yeah, good on you. And I feel like you really embody this whole, um, ethos of like, be the change you want to see. Like you saw a problem, you wanted to fix it, and you're like, well, there's no existing solution, so I'm going to take care of it. And boom, you know, you have your first business. And of course there's more of this like food waste reduction going on in Canada. It sounds like you were the catalyst for it and you've been advising on how that change should, you know, kind of like take shape over time. So that's pretty cool to be on the ground floor of that for an entire country. So props, Lucy. That's really cool. Thank you.

I really appreciate that. No one's quite put it in that way before. So that's very, like, thank you so much. That's very kind of you to say because it's certainly, it had its pros and its cons of being, we were a couple years ahead of the market. Like this is before, like this was right around the time when a very small handful of hospitality companies had a director of sustainability and that was kind of it. Yeah. And it, yeah, it was challenging being a little, but it, it was really great looking back to know that we were really one of the pioneers in that space. Like we worked closely with Restaurants Canada and, but it was, it's definitely hard. It's, it's my partner's jokes to me all the time because I've now done that twice where I've, I'm such a strong believer if I see a problem, kind of like how you just very kindly noted, oh my gosh, I'm pedal to the metal to fix it. Like there is no other option. I don't even care what stands in my way. I'm going to do what I can, which is a good and a bad thing in a lot of ways. And we'll get into that, how that's impacted my health. But with regard, like my partner jokes to me that I'm really good at starting companies that are hard for me, kind of like Terras, that first one where we were a bit ahead of the market with regards to food waste in the restaurant space, just because it was so new to our clients. They'd never heard of a company like us before. And the same thing with EarthPod, the dog treat company. No one was building a food waste supply chain like at that scale. Mm-hmm. So we had to pioneer that. Pioneer that and figure out, okay, how do we do this at scale? A handful of people are doing this in a really small way. At scale, it hasn't in the pet food space hasn't been done before. So that was also a lot of pioneering things, which is yeah, I'm grateful to be one of the people in that space. But it's not lost on me how challenging that can also be at the same time.

Yeah, I mean, you were going in and creating categories, and category creation is probably the hardest. Way to start a business because, you know, typically when you enter a market, there are existing competitors who have achieved proof of concept and product-market fit. And it's like, people are buying this stuff. We know that it's there. This is going to work. And we've got a unique angle. We're going to come in and we're going to start this business as opposed to it's a wide open playing field. No one's going to do this. No one has done this before. And we therefore have to explain what the category is that we've created and then do the sales pitch. Like people don't have an existing File folder in their brain, like a heuristic to kind of like latch onto. So that's doubly hard, especially to do. I mean, quite early in your career, right? And coming out of the hospitality industry. But anyway, I think that's super cool. And we are going to touch quite a bit on mindset today. So I'm going to kind of dive right into that. And let's talk about imposter syndrome. I mean, you are young, green, creating a category, and just going out there and getting shit done. So. To what degree did you have imposter syndrome, at least for those first couple of companies?

That is a great question. I don't think anyone's actually quite asked me that before. I'll tell you how I handled it in the first one, and then it shifted how I handled it in the other subsequent companies. So, the first company, I was very aware of the fact that, okay, I know the hospitality industry. I know the problem. I know how the people in this industry operate, how they work. I— but I hadn't yet actually— I was just going to school doing courses on environmental studies, writing like a cute little essay that no one's gonna read, and oops, I got a B+. Like, that's great. It's— I wasn't doing a lot of those things in practice yet, uh, because I, I was like 20. And so at the time, I, I, I said, okay, I'm going to find a partner who's more experienced who I'm gonna do this with, who's got more experience in the environmental space. And that's how I, in my mind, I tried to fill the gaps of my inexperience professionally. Because I'd never— the nature of the work I was doing was sustainability consulting. I had never done that before. And so, I found a co-founder, and it was someone who had significant experience in the environmental space, although, like, in government. But she was really keen on co-founding a company. So, we started the company together. And that was a really great experience and it worked really well for a period of time. And then it was, you know, you've got 2 co-founders in very different places in their lives who have very different, like, we, I could commit way more time than she could. Like, she's got a mortgage and a full-time job. I'm a student fresh out of school. We worked well together and it worked for a period of time, but there's a lot of difference. Yeah. and how we were both able to show up in a co-founder capacity. And I'm actually, I'm really grateful that she was not able to show up the way that I was able to because it showed me that I really was capable.

Hmm.

That I, because, you know, I was going to meetings alone because she couldn't go. And I was figuring all these things out and building the company because she didn't have, she, had a limited amount of capacity that, uh, it unfortunately— she had less capacity, uh, as time went on. I would say maybe a year and a half into building the brand.

Mm-hmm.

And that's fine. That happens. You know, she had other things going on in her life that are not my place to share, um, which I was very respectful of and wanted to support and was— and wanted to honor. But me essentially Having to go out and do a lot of that on my own just made me realize, oh my gosh, I can totally figure this out. And it forced me to also really realize in practice, even for the things I don't know how to figure out, I— there's Google. I can find someone on LinkedIn. I can— I've got a network of people I can ask. There are an array of possibilities of ways that I can figure out an answer. To whatever question I have is. And I really learned that firsthand. And that's how I got, kind of got over my own imposter syndrome. And I still experiencing it, experience it now and again. But for this other subsequent companies, and I'll, I'll go straight to Earth Pup as an example, because I launched Earth Pup a number of years later. And my mindset for that was, okay, I've never done consumer packaged goods. I've never built a supply chain. I've never worked in the pet food space. Let's go.

Perfect.

Like, because it's, I mean, you figure it out. And I, and it, in my head, I, I just, all the reason I did it was because when I researched the pet food industry, the growing category of pet treats, it was a booming industry. It made so much financial sense, wildly more profitable than human food. Also still is for anyone listening. A lot of human food companies are getting into pet. And so it made tons of sense just from a business perspective. But with regards to my own imposter syndrome, I was like, oh, I'll figure it out. So I hired someone who has a very well-established CPG brand in the human space, but still she, 'cause I was like, how do you make a barcode? Like, how do I, where do I find that? And she's like, okay. I hired her. I always, I'm such an advocate for I, I don't often reach out to someone and say, hey, can I pick your brain? I say, no, like, I, I have a problem that I, or something I would love advice on. Do you have an hourly rate? Can I hire you for an hour of your time? Mm-hmm. Um, that's my approach that has worked really well for me. And I, 'cause I, I deeply appreciate other people's time and experience and expertise. Anyways, so I hired her. Mm-hmm. She guided me just through the steps of setting up a CPG brand. In Canada, amazing. And then I researched and I like I got connections in the pet food space. I asked a ton of questions, and I got through and I figured it out. And I feel like that that's and now I feel that way about anything. Like if someone presented to me, this is like the last thing on this topic. I was presented with an opportunity not long ago to help launch an app in a tech company. I've coached tech entrepreneurs. I haven't built one myself and I was really open to it and I said, I said yes. But before I said yes, someone very close to me said, yeah, but you know, you have like, do you know how much it, how much it costs to build an app? Do you know all these things? And I was like, yeah, I know it costs money and anything I don't know, I will figure out. It is figureoutable. I know. Mm-hmm. And I, my greatest skillset is that I'm steadfast and determined and I'm aware of the gaps in my knowledge. So I just fill in the gaps and that's, and I kind of have that attitude towards everything now. And I do find that, and I think this is the case for any entrepreneur, when we relax in the headspace that it can be figured out and Knowing that we, like, there is a, like, even if you have existing communities or don't, knowing that there are people that you can go to for help or having those people by your side from the get-go. So you're like, okay, I'm gonna go to Alex when I have a problem with XYZ. Mm-hmm. You're rock solid. And I think you get much further, much faster. Yeah.

I like that. And you're kind of explaining this concept of like forced resourcefulness and it's like you're First co-founder, like maybe that ended up being like a very, very positive thing because you were able to lean into your own abilities and you're also like really embodying a growth mindset here. You're not like, oh, I can't learn that, or ooh, that's a little bit too much, or ooh, that's technical, I can't handle that. But you're like, no, okay. And I like the self-awareness too, like I'm aware of my knowledge gaps and like I'm systematically filling them. That's like my POV that I've done. For probably 15 years now, it's like this week I'm addressing—I mean, not this week, this year—I'm addressing this gap kind of a thing. So I really like that. And yeah, the being resourceful and again embodying that growth mindset and knowing that you can solve problems is so important. I'm sure that you coach on this, and I said we were going to talk about mindset today. So you know, this is a big part of that. It also plays into like major illness, chronic illness stuff, which we're going to get into in a minute. But yeah, I, I appreciate you sharing that. Thank you. And that's such an important, like, key takeaway is just, hey, I can do this. I can learn this. I am capable. I really like the framework that, uh, increasing your competence and taking action increases confidence. And so like, I'm learning and I'm practicing what I'm learning and I know that I can do it. And then that's like earned confidence as opposed to unearned confidence, which is the kind of confidence that I respect. And so. Yeah. Yeah, thanks for laying all that out. I love that.

I really like that. I feel like I need to, after we're done taping this, I need to write down how you just said that because I really like how you said that.

Cool. Yeah, I'd love to share with me what you write down. We can turn it into a framework we'll use. Okay. Well, let's talk a little bit more about impact-driven businesses. One, you just shared kind of like the companies that you've started, and I think it's very clear, like the value chain and the impact that you're making. But if you could sort of define an impact-driven business? And maybe that would help people who are listening better kind of wrap their heads around their business might sort of fit into that space or expand into that, or if they're thinking of starting a business, like how they could make sure that that's like a key element.

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question because I do feel like the words, you know, impact business and like sustainable business are thrown around a lot with— and they— and sometimes You know, that it's not totally aligned with what the business actually is at its core. So an impact business is a business that is definitively solving and moving the needle on a problem that they're setting out to solve at its core. And for me, that's also, that's a social and/or environmental problem. So if it's a social problem, then that's a problem within that community. And like, That could be, because I think when you look at the 3 pillars of sustainability, which is people, planet, profit, then like a social problem being, yeah, a problem within that's affecting people in a certain, in a given community. That could be, I'm trying to think of an example right now and my mind is going blank. Um, but it could be access to, my mind is going completely blank.

You can totally use your own, like the food waste and Earth Pup, like are great examples.

I would say like the Earth Pup. Because EarthPop solved an environmental problem with food waste. And I think where people, because I actually, okay, I had this conversation with an entrepreneur a couple of weeks ago and she said, yeah, no, I'm helping impact businesses. And the way that they were looking at impact was that that business had a giveback model. Like we, for every

No.

Unit purchased, we give a meal to the community. And that's nice. And that's great. That's a nice to have, but that wouldn't define an impact business because then you could argue that an, like a company that drills into the Amazon for oil because they, you know, give 1% of their revenue to something nice is impact. Like, no. Sorry, that just— that's a hard no because they're not solving the core of the company. The way that that company exists and operates needs to solve a given problem and be able to prove that they're moving the needle on that. So going back to Earth Pup being an environmentally focused impact business is we said, okay, we are going to move the needle on the food waste problem in Canada. And rooting that in a problem that was 47% of food waste in Canada comes from the manufacturing and production stage of the supply chain. Furthermore, one-third of food produced globally is wasted. Okay, we are going to dive into those problems.

Mm-hmm.

So knowing that nearly half of the food waste in Canada comes from the manufacturing and production stage, Right, which is all the stuff that consumers don't see. Right. We then looked at where can we harness food from that area of the supply chain, turn it into something new that is then consumed so it doesn't go to landfills. Great. We are proving that we are moving the needle on that by measuring the pounds of waste of food we actually turn into new products and sell. And not only did we measure those, like measure that to date, so But by the time we had to cease operations with the company because I got sick, we had rescued 1,300 pounds of waste from going to landfills, right? That company alone, like, sure, that's a cute number that was scaling and growing, but we also looked at our projected numbers and went, okay, in a number of years, we can then rescue 400,000 pounds of waste from going to landfills. And then furthermore, take the blueprint we created for creating supply chains like that and give it to other companies so that they can then— help to address the problem because we're not going to do it alone. And so, when I look at other impact companies or how we define them, that company needs to be able to say, okay, here is how I am either helping my community, so social, or helping the environment, or even a combination of the two. That needs to be rooted in a definitive problem that you can find, like go on statista.com, look at the data. It needs to be rooted in an actual identifiable problem. And then you need to be able to prove that you were helping to solve that problem through either quantitative and/or qualitative data.

Cool. Right. Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, totally. Core business model, not like a bolt-on, makes consumers feel better about it, but it's like the core mission of the business is around social change.

Exactly.

Cool. Okay. I want to get into health stuff, but really quickly, how did you come to have an audience with the Canadian government and the UN? I gotta know.

Yeah, that is, that's a, that was very exciting. So actually the Canadian government reached out to me and they were looking for feedback on their food waste reduction challenge. And they wanted to do it in a way that honored what an entrepreneur would most need. So they showed me their entire model and how they were delivering it. And I provided feedback on it. Which was awesome. And I was like, yes, you should do it this way and that way and that way. And then they did. So that was really, yeah, they just reached out to me. Someone reached out to me over LinkedIn.

So cool.

And then I later built, I built actually a program for entrepreneurs. So social impact entrepreneurs in Canada, specifically in the food space. So if they were, oh my gosh, this is the example I should have thought of earlier when my mind went blank. But I just need more matcha. But basically, for a great example of a social mission in food is you're delivering meals to those in need, right? That's the social aspect. And that can be two-pronged or multi-pronged if you're also using food waste for that particular example. Anyways, I built a program that was supporting and propelling forward social and environmental projects in the food space in Canada. And I led that program. I built it with an incredible colleague of mine, Alison Gibson. And that got the attention of the House of Commons. And they actually reached out to us and asked me to speak at the House of Commons to share at the Sustainable Finance Forum, to share what we did, how we did it, and what, like, what the results were, because Alison and myself were also food entrepreneurs. So we were leading this program rooted in our own experience. of being pioneers in this space. So that was really cool because I also, I was pretty harsh towards the MPs. Nice. Yeah, I was, I, I was like, do I sit back? No, I'm going to say what I want because I have a lot of ideas when it comes to policy development within the food industry. And I remember very distinctly the facilitator said to me, Lucy, should we have a policy like France where you cannot throw out food from grocery stores? And I, it's an audience of MPs and I just, I was like, yeah, we should have done that yesterday. And I went off about it. Um, and that was really great. And so, and it was a lot of kind of nods. And, and then after I did that, I got an invite to a policy council, which I actually have a meeting right after this recording for that. Um, so yeah, it's been a really wonderful journey.

That's super cool. Thank you for sharing. All right, let's dive into health stuff. Um, you and I originally connected around, um, A post that you put on LinkedIn several months ago, sort of describing this health journey that you went through. And I reached out to you and said, "Hey, do you want to have a conversation? I've had like long-term illness that I've dealt with as I've been, you know, a six-time executive and consultant and coach and like running, scaling, starting companies. And you know, that journey kind of continues. And so we're kind of like a hop, skip, and a jump to here. But I would love for you to share about your story, and then we can kind of talk about that. And I will." make my lawyer smile by saying that we are not healthcare professionals. We are not providing advice. If you are experiencing any sort of symptoms that we're going to talk about or anything like that, please speak to your healthcare provider. All right, that's over. What happened?

And that's very important. So I will share. Yeah, I'll share what happened. I was traveling in Europe. I was there for a pitch competition for a bunch of tech accelerator tech startups that I was coaching. And I was traveling all over Europe. I got home, I was catering an event with my partner, I was helping, he's a chef, and I was helping him cater. And the, the client said to me at the end, he said, do you want a glass of wine? And it was this very fancy wine. And I was like, yeah, okay, I'll have a glass of wine, drank it. Okay. And I had 2 drinks that night and I felt it way more than I should. And I thought, that's really unusual. And I woke up the next morning and I felt really hungover.

Yeah.

Way more than I should. And I, and this is a very, like, I'm not necessarily advocating for this, but I had a little bit of hair of the dog. I had a margarita to like help my hangover. So maybe this will help it go away. It was like a Sunday. And it made it way worse. And I thought, and that's a very me, like Lucy, the hospitality person who worked in restaurants for 13 years. But I, and it made it way worse. And all of a sudden I felt extremely sick and I just thought it was a hangover and it didn't go away. I couldn't, I was, I could not stomach food. I could, the look of food, I couldn't get food in my system. And what I thought was a hangover then, I thought maybe it was heatstroke because the air conditioning in my apartment was not working. And so my house was resting at 32 degrees Celsius night and day, which I would need to look up what that is in Fahrenheit. Very uncomfortable. Yeah. Um, and dangerous for elderly people in our apartment building. And it's— I couldn't figure out what was going on. And so I saw 3 different doctors Who also— I said, look, I'm having a lot of trouble eating. It's getting scary. I was not getting in my system more than 200 or 300 calories a day. And that was a, that was a push to get those calories in me. I was Googling the most calorically dense foods because I was just, I didn't know what to do. Yeah. And so I'm shoving cashews in my mouth and I feel so sick. I'm like, but I need to eat. And all the doctors that I saw, This isn't including I went up in the ER at one point for seven hours, just trying to get some form of answer. They all said the same thing to me. They all said, "Are you pregnant?"

Oh,

you're feeling nauseous? Have a gravel. At this point, I had been popping gravels like it was no tomorrow. I was smoking weed. I don't smoke weed. I don't like it. It's fully legal here in Toronto, here in Canada, but like. I, I don't— I just was so desperate for something to help me eat food. And my partner, who was working on a farm out of the city at the time, came home because I, I said— I, I said to him, look, this is getting a bit scary. Um, I wasn't fully transparent with how sick it— or how bad it was at this point. I'd lost probably 20 pounds in 2 weeks.

Whoa.

Um, it's I, I don't think I, I think I was in denial of how bad it was. Like, I was still trying to work at the time because I, I just, I didn't want to be facing the fact that I'm extremely sick and something's really wrong because doctors couldn't tell me what it was. Um, so it just felt easier to kind of deny that it'll go away, maybe tomorrow will be better. Anyway, and so then I, it got my tongue turned white because I wasn't eating and I was feeling very faint. I constantly felt like I was going to pass out, so I I decided I'm going to admit myself to the hospital for a feeding tube tomorrow.

Mm-hmm.

And because I just, I didn't know what else to do. And so I had that plan. I was like, maybe tomorrow, maybe the day after. And then my mom said to me, why don't you see a naturopath? And I was so desperate at this point because, you know, I mentioned earlier I thought it was an issue with my air conditioning. I bought a whole new air conditioning unit. I, I dropped So much money on that. Yeah. Because I thought that's what the problem was and it wasn't. And so I went to see a naturopath and we did a much longer intake than you're going to get in the healthcare system in Canada. And I'm very grateful to have the healthcare system we have in Canada, but for this particular experience, I was dismissed by 3 doctors.

Yeah.

And the naturopath, she identified that I was in the beginning stages of liver failure and that's why I couldn't eat. And she said to me— Oh. Okay, we're gonna give you— we're gonna get you on an IV with liver support, like everything for your liver, like glutathione, minerals, vitamins, all these things. And I was like, cool, whatever you gotta do, do it. I don't care. Money's— I don't, I, I don't care what it is. I'll put everything on my credit card. I just I'm not eating food. Something needs to get better. She pumps an IV in me and I was able to start eating again. And, uh, so after we got me to start eating again, we then started to dive deep into, okay, what happened here? Yeah. Because it's not like I was drinking liters of vodka while traveling Europe. That, that wasn't like, but something else was at play here and it took us a couple of months to figure it out. But she did, I did some blood work and she said to me, I remember very clearly on the phone when she was looking at my results, she went, you know, this, whatever the number is that I will not do it justice, but this number related to your gallbladder is indicative of toxic mold illness or of mold.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I went, all right. And she said, okay, we're going to test you for mold, but we're going to, for now, put you on a mold detox protocol. Just in case, because the only test you can get in Canada, you have to order through the States. And so she said, "We're going to do this now preliminarily." Got it.

You nailed it. Yeah.

Yep. Okay. So we did that, and I had all of the symptoms that happened with mold detox in that you, as you start detoxing in your body, you get sicker before you get better. And I had that happen. So I it affected me. My my muscles, it affected me cognitively, my digestive system, my nervous system, and I was having flare-ups. And this is very consistent with this illness. And then we did the test, like I got the results. And interestingly, interestingly, um, the first test it came back all zeros. And she was like, okay, one or two things are happening here. Either you're fully bettered, it's you know it's a miracle, but you're having all these flare-ups, or your liver's. not letting anything go, in which case this is going to be a much harder path. And we did the test again with the support of a whole bunch of other, like, things that helped my liver release. And then it— we did a second test, cost me so much money. And I found out that I have the most toxic mold group in my system, which includes black mold. And yes, my liver is— doesn't do a very good job of doing its job. It doesn't release things very well.

And

when we put all of these pieces together over a number of months, we concluded that what had happened was my body was already under so much stress from traveling, from work at the time. I, with Earth Pup, which I was operating, we were launching a sister brand, Earth Cat. We were launching a whole new product line that is first of its kind in the pet industry. We were doing all this stuff and I was go, go, go. I had already dealt with chronic stress-related health issues previously related to like my heart. Every entrepreneur has experienced burnout. Like I've had medical health professionals say to me, Lucy, can you just, you know, not do so many stressful things? And if I'm in the middle of building a company, that, that's so nice. That's cute. I would love that. I would love if that is advice I could actually put into practice.

Mm-hmm.

But that's just, it doesn't really apply. And then basically my naturopath said to me, she's like, look, I think your body was already under so much stress over such a long period that the mold exposure was the straw that broke the camel's back. And what you experienced was your liver just starting to shut down as a result. And why I think that's actually a good thing is that, that my liver did that is because we identified the problem very fast because we had to because I wasn't eating. So many people live with toxic mold for years and it's not diagnosed, but it really was a wake-up call around how I need to operate both in my professional life and my personal life. And I'm a test, I'm doing my test to see if it's out of my system this month. So yeah.

Ooh. Um, so many questions and we have so many questions, so little time, but, um, I guess looking back, Were, I mean, you just said you have a history of like chronic stress-related illness, um, leading up to this time that the night you were doing a catering event, you had the really nice glass of wine, you woke up, didn't feel good, had the margarita. Were there signs before that that you, looking back, hindsight 20/20, you're like, ah, this is the point at which I should have started pursuing medical care? Or was that really just like sign number one?

I think it was sign number one.

Whoa.

Yeah, it was. I knew, I always knew that I needed to. So with, with regards to stress-related illness, I knew for a long time that something needed to change because to be perfectly frank, while I was building a lot of those companies, I was also working other jobs to pay my bills. I was working full-time jobs a lot of the time. And so it was a lot of the Okay. I will be relaxed when, when I quit my full-time job, I will have more space and I will be more relaxed. And my family and friends who were concerned about me, I would go, oh yeah, this is only temporary. And I fully believed that because it felt that way. So I knew, I knew that that was a problem that needed addressing. With regards to this particular illness, that was actually the very first sign. Before that, I was eating what, like, and I was eating without any issue and felt totally fine while traveling. And it was all, it was all fine and dandy. It was just that, that really was sign number one. And it was all downhill from there.

Wow. And when was that again? What month? What year?

August 2022.

August of 2022. Okay. And we're recording this in January of 2024. So, you know, what's happened in the last like 18 months? Um, and I mean, you can take that from any angle if you want. Like, how has your life changed? How has your mindset changed? What are your treatment protocols like? And how does that interfere fear with your life. And, um, and we're also going to talk in a minute about like, you know, significant business pivot because of this. So

yeah. Yeah, I'm actually— and we'll get into that because I'm really grateful this all happened the way it did. And now looking back on it, it makes so much sense. And but for— so my, my naturopath, Dr. Allison Freeman, was in Toronto. She's amazing. What she did was she put me on a really aggressive protocol, especially after we got the diagnosis that I have. And I should know what the mold group is called. It starts with a T, but it is the one that includes black mold. And I remember when, when we had the call, when she told me that, she went, how do you feel? This is the worst one. Like, she's like, are you okay? It was her checking in. Yeah. Um, and in my head I just went, okay, well just tell me what to do. And like, let's just do it. There's nothing I can do about this right now. So we did. My protocol was, um, I had to take bentonite clay, which she gave me a very specific food-grade one to purchase because apparently a lot of bentonite clay is contaminated. Um, and so I got bentonite clay, activated charcoal, and then a, um, spirulina and chlorella combo that she, she, she gave me. And those are all binders to mold, so I'd have to take those All 3 of those, um, every day, 2 hours away from food, which meant there was a while— it took me a while to figure out how to navigate that because that means it needs to be 3, 4-hour windows in my day where I'm not eating. And so there's a period of time where I was losing weight because I wasn't getting enough food in my body because I had to time it with medication.

Yeah.

Um, so there was that. And then she also put me on cholesterol medication. I did a couple rounds of that just so that my body would Because for everyone listening, so toxin mold illness is weird. It, my friend said it's like this strange dystopian illness. And it's kind of true because it's the, whenever you eat. So for me, my flareups, if I consumed sugar content or any fat whatsoever, I'd have a flareup because like the sugar, it feeds mold and it gives me a little flareup. And then fat, when I consume it, my body needs to put bile into my stomach to break fat down and Mycotoxins, which is basically the poison from mold trying to defend itself, binds to bile. And so when I'd eat fat, I'd have a really weird sensation that it kind of— I could only describe it as— I don't know if you— like, I'm curious if other people experience this, but it kind of felt like I was really hungover and loopy. Mm-hmm. It was such a strange experience, and it was because it was from fat, um, because I couldn't, I couldn't process it. So anyways, I would take ox bile to help me process fat, those 3 binders. She gave me a whole other slew of supplements just to make sure my body was getting enough vitamins and minerals. And because we were like, because of the binders I was taking, like the bentonite clay and the activated charcoal, it's just stripping my body of important nutrients. So we were having to replace that. Plus the cholesterol medication, which was awful. Oh, I have a very distinct memory of going on a Walk because I would take the cholesterol medication one week per month so that my body would like get rid of the bile and produce new bile and help release some of those mycotoxins. And it was the winter in Toronto, and I felt so awful on this cholesterol medication. I just lay. I was walking. There's a really beautiful cemetery near my house that I like to go on walks through, and I just lay in the cemetery in the winter on a whole bunch of snow because I felt. So sick.

Oh.

I can only imagine someone walking by, saw this like woman lying down in a cemetery. But I just, I was so ill and it did get pretty bad. Um, I had to go on medical leave, uh, from work. I didn't, I was not able to work that December at all. I had to go, I had to get employment, um, insurance. Um, I had to go like go on EI. And thank goodness it did start to get better and I had less flare-ups and I was able to get more functional. But it was— it really sucked for a while. Like, if— to be perfectly frank, it just— it, it wasn't fun and I couldn't do anything because I just would— like, I remember I was supposed to facilitate a workshop and I love facilitating. I love it so much. And I had a handful of blueberries at lunch. And the sugar content in 3 blueberries set me off and gave me a flare-up. And I couldn't, I had to get my colleague to do it. I couldn't facilitate it. But I am grateful for the fact that like, it's, it was, I got a diagnosis and it just meant that what I was doing was working. Mm-hmm. Um, because of the state of that illness. And now I'm not, I don't have flare-ups and I, I don't need ox bile to eat fat, and that's really exciting. So, and I'm just grateful of the fact that it is an illness that you can get better from.

Yeah. And our livers are like super good at regenerating and all that stuff. And the, the classification of mycotoxin or mycotoxin, either one, same thing. Trichothecene is the mycotoxin from black mold. And yeah, when you like are killing and getting that stuff out of your body, it leaves trash behind. Just like it's It's, um, it's like, don't let the door, you know, hit you on the way out kind of thing. It's just like, how, how can I screw this body that I'm living in as it's making me exit? And so that's, yeah, those flare-ups from die-off and removal and all that was really, really, really miserable.

Um, you put that really, really well. And it's also, thank you for noting that because it's, I just want to note, I really appreciated when you reached out to me when you, when I shared that post on LinkedIn that I didn't expect so many people to see and it did. Like, it just, it became the most popular thing I've ever posted on social media ever. So, and I really appreciated you reaching out because it's, I did find it really challenging for a while because I didn't know anyone dealing with this type of illness. And it, anyone that I just spent so much time explaining what I was dealing with to people who, including my own doctor. So what, this is a thing? Um, and I'm like, yeah, I'm just figuring it out and it sucks. And I'm really sick. I can't eat whatever you're making us for dinner. Sorry. Like. So, I really appreciate it when you reached out. Thank you.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think we have a responsibility as female entrepreneurs, business owners, founders, bosses to show what real life is like. Social media is by and large the top 2% highlights of life. And life is not a highlight reel. Life is difficult and it's typically one struggle to the next. And the idea is not that Oh, I'm finally going to get through this and then everything's going to be okay, but more like, how can this challenge best equip me for the next challenge? And you become, I think, a more like whole person who is more informed and has more wisdom. And when you gather that along the way, whether it was forced upon you or not, it's really important to, to share that with other people. I mean, every time that I've shared about my health journey, somebody new pops up on the radar. Um, I was like, oh, me too. Like, I want to talk about that. And every doctor I went to told me that I was crazy or it was all in my head or like just got some catch-all diagnosis like fibromyalgia or IBS or whatever. It's like, I'm miserable. No one can help me. What the hell do I do? Mm-hmm. Um, and especially like we are working full-time, sometimes moms supporting families, supporting teens and stuff like that. And, um, life can get pretty impossible if you're in this situation, or at least feel that way, like the crushing weight of a boulder that's like bearing you into the ground a little more every day. But I think the more that women in particular, who are far more prone to this kind of chronic disease, know that there are other people out there who are going through the same thing, it's just super, super, super important. So I would encourage you to just like keep sharing, which you are. So let's talk a little bit about that. Um, you're pivoting your business because this has really changed your life. So let's talk about that. What are you doing?

Yeah, it has completely changed my life. And I will say, I, I want to also add something that I learned through this whole experience that I'm really grateful for, just tying the bow on the health piece. I actually found out through, because my naturopath said, let's do some genetic testing to see if you're genetically predisposed to have pathways in your liver that don't work well. And I learned that that actually was the case, and that was likely the reason that my liver was not letting things go. Like, just genetically, my liver is not set up for success, apparently. Like, it's just not. And I'm so happy that I learned, and that's probably why I just started to shut down and just kind of went, no, we're not gonna— we're not gonna do— we're not gonna do this today. Um, because it really— I now know permanent lifestyle changes that I need to make for the rest of my life so that I'm not You know, 20, 30 years from now, living a life very similarly to my peers. You know, a couple casual drinks here or there. Like my body doesn't do that well, and I know that now. And I know so. I'm just I'm really grateful for all of that. And it because not only has this whole experience as awful as it was, because it did force me to cease operations with Earth Pup, and I never I don't know if I really noted that, but like or or I I touched on it briefly. But I couldn't, there was no one else building the company. So I had to close it down. Like, what else am I, what else am I going to do? And so as awful as it was, and I remember at the time thinking, why is this all happening? This sucks. There is no silver lining that I can currently identify. I'm spending thousands of dollars on naturopathic care because I can't get any support through the Canadian system because they don't recognize my illness. Right. Although my doctor, she, she worked very well with my naturopath and credit to her. But like the Canadian healthcare system at large, like it this same here. Yeah, it never would have been caught. And so I was like, okay, I am in so much debt. I am not working. I have closed my company down. I am pretty good at finding the silver lining. I don't see that here. Yeah, I don't see it. And it took me a long time to find it, and I now know what that is. And even though Earthpa. It's still, I like, it still could be revived in some shape or form. We had a couple buyers interested, but this whole experience made me really realize, okay, the way that I was working, which is very much in line with the way most entrepreneurs work, it, I learned firsthand why that is not sustainable because my body started to shut down.

Mm-hmm.

And it, it, became my mission to go, okay, if it— like, it really just became my new mission in my career to support entrepreneurs, especially those that are scaling impact businesses, those who are at the height of their career, they're raising $5 million, and they're— and they're like, they're bringing their business to the next level, supporting them so that they don't burn out. Because I feel like when I was— even with some of the other stress-related illnesses I had, Like I was saying earlier, I grew frustrated with people just saying, well, can you just not do that? Or have you tried meditating? Like, cute. Yeah, that's valid. But there's so much more to that, especially entrepreneurs. And it's resulted in me wanting to provide the support that I wish I had in my entrepreneurial journey to others and looking at it through the lens of what an entrepreneur really needs. And that's not only like, yes, that's the mindfulness piece. That is like, meditation is certainly an aspect of that, but how are we looking after— and like, to be fair and to be perfectly clear, I'm very aware of the fact I'm not a medical professional. I can provide guidance and a framework and refer you. So, um, and, and bring in experts where needed. Mm-hmm. But it is looking at a holistic framework. So for example, like with the clients that I'm working with now, and especially with the program that we have coming up, uh, in March 2024, which is the Thrive Program, um, we're first looking at restructuring in a business. How are we restructuring the backend and the operations of a business? Everything from your task list to your calendar so that Mm-hmm. Stress and overwhelm can be reduced as much as possible there. Things can be automated, delegated, streamlined. It's, you know, whenever, for me, whenever I was going, if I was really stressed or sick, that's never something a medical professional would even think to ask about because it's not their job, right? But from the perspective of an entrepreneur, we are very well aware of the importance of that and restructuring things first so that a founder a team is best set up for success to do their job well and also in ideally less time with less stress and overwhelm. And then from there, further diving into, okay, how do we integrate and embody new practices and new routines that prioritize our well-being and are rooted in data and what is really going to support our physical and mental wellness? And so, that's really the core of the work that I'm doing now is supporting entrepreneurs both in their operations and in their mindset so that they can feel really good and ideally keep their stress and overwhelm to a minimum. Not to say it's completely eliminated because we're all human. Right. And bringing in other experts where needed to support them in their journey. Because at the end of the day, I really think that the way that we teach and support entrepreneurs needs an overhaul. And I think it needs a mindfulness lens just so that we don't all burn ourselves into the ground while we're trying to achieve our dreams.

Yes, it is hard to help others if we have not first helped ourselves. It's like that concept of when you're on an airplane, putting your oxygen mask on first. It's like if your cup is not filled, you really don't have anything to offer anyone else. So I love this approach that you were taking that brings more balance and real life into the entrepreneurial journey. And I have seen the business plan. I've seen the curriculum. It's an awesome program. I'm super, super excited for you to launch it. And, um, Let's kind of start to— speaking of planes, let's kind of like start to land the plane here. Do you have like 3 to 5 kind of key takeaways that entrepreneurs, female entrepreneurs in particular, can take home after this episode and apply pretty quickly to their business?

Absolutely. Okay. So I'm going to say 3 things and they're things that I've been talking about today actually. Excuse me. One is that you can do it. You can figure it out. If you're feeling, especially with women entrepreneurs, I think that there's And I've experienced it myself, a lot of doubt that can come up. Can I do this? Am I capable? Am I worthy of it? Mm-hmm. I think just really knowing you are the one that thought of this idea, so it is you to do it. And anything you're not sure of, you can figure it out. Ask someone, Google it, tap into your network. If you don't know someone immediately who can answer your question, like ask, ask your friends and family, hey, do you know anyone who does X? You are the person to do it. And I think just knowing that and being really confident in that knowing, everything else becomes much more clear. I think also the power of saying no. I still have to remind myself of that sometimes because I get really excited about new things that can happen. But I think when we remember to say no to things that are not completely aligned with what our focus is on or our goals at that given time, You save yourself a lot of time and effort, um, that way. Like, just, it helps you just put your blinders on and focus with whatever you're doing. And then with whatever time you've left over, you're not working on stuff that doesn't align with you. You're spending that time doing a hobby with your loved ones, being human, like remembering to be human, which I think is so important.

Yes.

And then finally, I think the last thing that— this is just I just love this exercise and I shared it with someone today that I went to coffee with. Excuse me. And it's looking at your task list and asking yourself, how can I make this easier? And doing that exercise again and again and again. And it seems really simple, but I think we also have a tendency, especially like, I think all entrepreneurs do this and especially early stage ones, is you want everything to be perfect and polished and everything it can possibly be. But I think when we look at how do I make this easier for myself and more simple, we therefore reduce our stress and overwhelm and it just allows you to get more done. And I think those 3 things, saying no, making things easy for yourself wherever possible, and knowing that you can do it because you are the person that came up with the idea, so it is you to do it, will really set everyone up for success as much as possible in the early days. And I need it.

Yeah, that's great. I love that 1-2-3 punch. Well, thank you again for joining me today, Lucy. Do you have like a quick parting shot and where can listeners find you online?

Yes, thank you so much. So you can find me @thelucycullen on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook. Cullen, kind of like they spell it in Twilight. If you're a millennial, you will understand that reference. You could also find me at lucycullen.co. I also have a podcast myself called The Holistic Founder on Spotify, which Amanda will be a guest on very soon, which I'm very excited about. And also there will be a freebie in the show notes if you want to reduce stress and overwhelm, avoid burnout, the link will be there for you. And that's it. Thank you so much for listening in.

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