The Dark Side of the Fitness Industry with Merijn Schoeber

I made a selfie video like, hey guys, all my videos got deleted. If you guys want me to keep making videos, let me know in the comments. And I think I have like 6 comments under that video, but those 6 comments kind of motivated me to keep going.

We go from Student Aesthetics to My Shredded Lifestyle. All of a sudden we have different business partners, different businesses. We've got staff, we've got a physical office, we got Marianne commuting into work. How did this start? Where did you think of the name My Shredded Lifestyle? How did the business operate? Like, what was the main source of revenue for the business? And then how did you— why did you end up kind of leaving it?

My first sale that I made was, I think, €150. So I woke up with like €150 in my PayPal. I'm like, put on a little bit of a mask, which later I dropped when I hit that point of burnout. My rule was kind of like 2 hours before I go to sleep, I close my laptop. I don't have, you know, the screen. 1 hour before, no phone. Definitely no scrolling before. I always— yeah, I got like angry at my girlfriend. She started scrolling before sleep.

All right, guys, welcome back to The Game Plan. I am your host, Rob Lipsett. So today we have a YouTube fitness OG. We have also one of my closest friends. We have Netherlands' greatest fitness sensation. We have Marijn Schoober.

Pretty good, man.

So we were just saying, we're like, the name, it's Brian with an M, and that says something.

Said in English, Marijn. Yeah.

And then how, uh, the second name, Schoober. Schoober.

Scooter. Yeah, I guess.

Now, and so you originally, right, you did— you were— you weren't embarrassed or you had a different name?

Yes.

You at the start, you, uh, had a different name?

Aesthetics.

Yes.

A lot of you may know me from that. I started YouTube when I was 19. I was a student back in the day, so I showed people how to get in shape and party. So Student Aesthetics is the name.

Okay. And I always forget, I'm like, what were you even studying in college?

It's called like commercial economy. Commercial, commercial economics, I guess. I guess it's sort of like, sort of like marketing and sales. Yeah, very broad. Like, yeah, I didn't learn much.

And so when you were in college, what was like a day-to-day life for you?

So good question. So I was 17 back in the day. Well, 17, 18. I started lifting really seriously.

Yeah.

So first that was kind of the lifestyle. I quit one other study because I was like too busy with the gym. Yeah, that I actually I didn't make it. It was like in another city, so I also had to travel and stuff. So I woke up super early in the morning, meal prep everything, like go to school. I like so much food with me in school, and I was just like, I wanted to hit the gym every day. So sometimes I just kind of like skip school, and I was a bit of a rebel always in school, I guess. And then later when I did the second study, I took it a little more serious. So I did the, I did the study decently, and then, you know, in the morning I would meal prep, hit the gym, later on they would shoot videos. That was probably kind of like the most busy time when I decided I was going to start YouTube and also going to start my own coaching business, which was about, I guess, a year later.

Okay.

So then I was pretty much like balancing everything at the same time. Yeah, which was crazy.

And this is when kind of Student Aesthetics was invented.

Yeah.

And so what made you come up with the name?

Just a student trying to get some aesthetics, I guess, if you boil it down. Yeah, that's pretty much, pretty much what it is.

And so when did you make your first online sale?

I actually had one name before Studenstetics, which is funny. Oh shit. My first Gmail name too. I don't know if the YouTube channel was named for that long. It was called Stop Miring. Oh yeah. I'm not even joking.

That was your URL.

Exactly. Yeah, it still is. Maybe it's still there. Yeah, it's hard to change the URL. It actually was for a while. Stop Miring. It was just like I was inspired by Zs and those guys.

Oh my God. And so it means like, are we trying to stop the miring?

And I don't know what it meant. I was— I have no idea, man.

Remember the Zeze days? Like, I have to say, my two original inspirations to get into lifting, they were so different, but like, I just— I thought one was funny, one was inspirational.

Zeze and Greg Plitt.

That's the exact one. And they're both around at the same time. And like, I would watch Zeze like for the laughs and like, because his physique looks so good, and then Greg Plitt like for motivation, for, for real advice. And, uh, I I just thought they, they both like just that shape and everything that looks so good. And I remember like when I went on my first cut, it was inspired by them. But they're actually not what inspired me to start lifting. What inspired me to start lifting was actually rugby. So like I wanted to gain weight and like to get better at rugby, to get on the team. And so it actually really worked in my favor before this whole Ziz Greg Plitt era. And, and you know, kind of our era as well of everyone like talking about getting cut and like showing off their shreds online. I would just like watch sports and play sports and rugby. That's like, you know, the main sport in Ireland. And so our coach every morning, every training session would weigh you. And so the whole team would weigh you in the morning. And so every, like, we're all trying to gain like a pound a day. We're all trying to gain like, like crazy amounts. It just became a competition. Like, we'd be like slogging back liters of milk. We'd be going up to the school cafeteria like getting seconds and we'd all be trying to outdo each other. No one gave a fuck about being shredded. Yeah, like, and nowadays— and so that works, it just doesn't work for actual sports. Yeah, exactly. And if you're a kid, like, this is me at like between the ages of pretty much like 12 to 18 in school, always just on a perma-bulk. And so nowadays it's the opposite, the kids just straight away they're trying to get shredded just straight away, whereas me, I, I built foundation, like, was kind of fat in a way. Yeah. And, and then so when it came to— when I did discover the whole Zs and Greg Plitt era I actually like, I went on a cut and like, I looked pretty good. I went to Iron Affair and I was like, I got shredded for Iron Affair and I like, I looked decent. But yeah, that was when I, uh, I found those guys and I, I definitely, I think we all became a little bit obsessed with that. Like, and I think they kind of started the whole YouTube fitness scene.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And, um, to get to the like the bulking thing, I've actually done that myself for very long time. Like when I was, I guess, 19 years, I was heavier than I am now. Yeah, I was like heavier than my bulks now.

Oh no way.

Yeah. So I was like over 90 kg, like 92. I never really get over 90 kg now. I kind of like between, um, even when I'm shredded, I'm like 76, I guess. Um, and then up to like maybe 88 or something. Then I'm like pretty, uh, my face starts bloating.

Man, as soon as the face starts, I'm like, I'm not making videos.

If you watch my old videos, my face is this big and I just didn't give a fuck. Like, like I had a pretty decent shape, like, under all the fat. But like, I bulked for a very long time, which is when I started getting shredded. I did have this foundation.

Yeah.

So I, I can never really blame the dirty bulk. They kind of helped me. I do have stretch marks everywhere because I just gained weight so fast.

Oh really? I never—

my back. Yeah, I never get new ones. I just had them from when I was 19.

Because you're not making gains anymore.

Probably, probably.

But that's so wild. Like, that— I'm like, I wish I had stretch marks now.

It's kind of battle scars.

I'm like, I can't believe back in the day you were gaining so much weight and muscle fast that you get, get stretch marks. I think they look cool when they're like on, like on the inside of your chest.

I think a little bit.

Yeah, I think they look sick there. And so, right, when was your first online sale? Was it during college? When did you think like, all right, you know, I'm gonna make a business out of this?

Yes, I was, um, in university when I started, uh, my YouTube channel. I was probably in for maybe a couple months when I started. So pretty quickly, the study before that, I was already thinking about starting YouTube. I just never really made the move. Yeah. So I was just so afraid to like start YouTube and I didn't even like— I had an ex-girlfriend back in the day. I didn't even tell her I made a video without telling her. That's how— Yeah, that's how scared I was.

Oh my God. Yeah.

And it's so weird, like, but like the mindset, you cannot almost cannot understand what you were like when you were young. Yeah. But I was just so stressed out, fearful. Now I just, I couldn't imagine being like that.

Yeah.

Like not telling the people around me, but I was just afraid. So I was kind of like, maybe if I have some views, like even like telling my friends and stuff, which came later, I didn't like, at first I told her, like later my friends, I was like, maybe if I get some views first, it'll be like, you know, I can tell them and not be ashamed. That's how you feel like.

Yeah, it's fair. That's fair enough.

Fair in a way.

It's fair in a way. But you shouldn't care.

But then I went to the gym in my hometown in Nijmegen and I was making videos in English, like worldwide. I had some, I had like 2 or 3 comments on the video. Yeah, 2 hate comments, one from my mom. Like, no, no, but like, yeah, just like maybe one person to kind of cheer me on. And so I came to the gym one day in Nijmegen, the city in the Netherlands, and someone said, yo, do I know you from the video? When I was training with my friend, with a friend of mine that I didn't tell about the YouTube channel. And I just felt like truly shaved. Like, I was just like, fuck.

Like, in a good way?

No, in like a bad way. Why? Because I still didn't have views. I had like 200 views on the video.

Okay.

I don't know. I was kind of insecure back in the day. Yeah, but I'm glad I made the move and like YouTube changed my life in that sense that now I cannot even imagine being that way. And I think people shouldn't care, but I was just so afraid. I would secretly like film on my phone in the gym, put some towels around it so no one saw it. Like crazy shit. No one in the Netherlands was doing this, by the way. So I was like, now you see some people taking videos. No one was doing it.

Yeah, that's exactly the same as me. Like, that's why I think we became such good friends because we could relate to each other. Like, and even remember the first time we met. It was in like Sandyford in Dublin.

I know, I shot you an email. Yeah, bro, did you want to make a video together? I'll come to Dublin.

And an email, an email signed off by Mariah. It's so formal. Yeah, yeah, they were like, what's up? And like, what do you want? But yeah, it's so scary starting out. Like, I am— I did my 10-year anniversary video on YouTube. I posted last night. I got like so many messages and DMs, like, so nice of people being like, this has just inspired me to start. And like, it's so crazy that right now we feel like, oh, we wouldn't think of anything of uploading video, but you do at the beginning. Like, you're actually— when it's easy for us to say when we're here in Marbella doing podcasts and have all our friends do it, we have all the best camera equipment and everything, we all run successful businesses, it's easy for us to say. But starting out it's so completely different.

Exactly. That is why I think it's important to share, to like kind of go back to that feeling back in the day.

Yeah.

Which is almost hard to imagine, but I'm sure other people feel like that too.

Yeah.

That start creating content. So the question was like my first sale. So I started a YouTube channel, I started uploading 3 times a week. I did that like consistently.

Yeah.

And actually after a couple of months, like all my videos got sort of banned, which was weird because I, because I use like non-copyrighted music. Yeah, I made, I made a selfie video like, hey guys, um, uh, you know, all my videos got deleted. If you guys want me to keep making videos, let me know in the comments. And I think I have like 6 comments under that video, but those 6 comments kind of motivated me to keep going. Shout out to the 6 people. Yeah, which are mostly Americans watching back then. Yeah, um, which was— that, that kind of kept me going, those 6 people. Yeah, that commented. So I kept making videos 3 times a week again. I think I already had like 50 videos back then, so they all got, you know, sort of banned, deleted. Yeah. Then I started again and after like about 100 videos, one video went viral, which was like a transformation video.

Yeah.

So it just— I was— it took me one and a half years. I was at 5,000 subscribers and then one video kind of got viral. This was luckily at the same time that I was starting to build my own website, like my coaching business. Which I just started everything by myself, you know, built the website myself, everything basically. So, um, the design, which didn't look good, but like, hey, you got it. That one was cool. My friend actually made that logo.

That was good. That— yeah, friend of mine made that logo. Like, you had that for a while.

Yeah, yeah. So big shout out to him. That was, that was dope. Um, and so yeah, took me 1.5 years. Then kind of like one video got viral. The next month I went from 5,000 subs to 10,000, and that month afterwards, 20,000.

What?

Yeah. So that was the biggest like exponential increase I got.

Yeah.

And I launched my website pretty much at that time or maybe even right before. So I worked on the website like the whole summer, 3 months. I didn't know how WordPress worked or any website, so I just figured it all out. Took me many months, but I didn't have money to invest. I just did it all by myself. Paid one guy from my university in school €50 to like, which was a big investment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. To build like the, the payment thing, you know.

Yes, for the website. That was the rest I just built myself.

That was difficult. Yeah. And then I was rolling, you know. I got some— my first sale, I think. So it was after probably around 1.5 years of YouTube and then just launching the website. And it was an American guy. And actually, my first sales were all American guys. Yeah. Which was kind of cool.

Yeah, that is good. It kind of makes you feel like a little bit more international. Or exactly.

And I think that kind of motivated me because, yeah, you know, the Netherlands is also a tough country to like get well known in.

Tough crowd, guys.

Tough crowd. Once they like you, they like you. But I guess it's a tough crowd if you get started. Yeah, a lot of hate, man. A lot of hate. Like, okay, when people are on the come up.

Yeah.

So I see it now on social media as well. If I see people trying something, you will see a lot of people hating.

Like, because I can't like understand the comments, like if I'm ever on like a Netherlands page, there's any hate. But so tell me a little bit more about that because I feel it's just like a carbon copy of Ireland because what's like the population of the Netherlands?

Roughly, it's like 17 million now.

Okay. Well, yeah, that's like Ireland is like, I think it's like 6, 7 or 8 million, you know, but that's compared to countries like America or even the UK. It's exactly fractional. So it's essentially a small town mentality.

It is. Yeah. And I live in Nijmegen, so I didn't live— if I lived in Amsterdam, it was probably different.

Yeah.

There were no vloggers around me, no YouTubers. like, separate from the fitness space. Yeah, there were maybe a couple, like, general YouTubers in the Netherlands that got very pretty big around that time. The gamers, the gamers, the daily vloggers, but they, they made maybe prank videos, uh, but nothing like fitness content or anything. So I truly was one of, one of the first, and, um, maybe probably the first on YouTube that they got, like, decent, um, decent views. Yeah. Um, so yeah, the first sale, bro, it was honestly the best feeling, like, business-wise in my life. Yeah. Because it made me for the first time kind of realize, just like I did with YouTube, but this made me realize, like, hey, I could be on to something. Because before this, I did, like, I worked in the kitchen and I worked, you know, at the grocery store. Yeah. Just those kind of jobs which earn, like, maybe €5 to €7 an hour.

Oh yeah, I worked in—

back in the day it was about—

yeah, now that's illegal.

Now that's illegal. Yeah.

But my minimum wage when I was working in, like, an office this job, it was €1,800 a month. And like, that was minimum wage. Surely it's gone up to more.

Definitely.

But that was like, I could— I could— yeah, I couldn't survive on that back in the day. Like, and nowadays you wouldn't even get like a one-bedroom apartment to rent in Dublin.

True.

For that. Yeah, I know, it's crazy expensive. Like, it's nuts.

So basically, this first sale that I made— so you realize I came from like working in a kitchen where I got fired at both jobs pretty much. Why? Different, like, different reasons. At the grocery store, the Albert Heijn is called, I, uh, it's just one day I called in sick. I don't know if I was actually sick or not. Yeah, it doesn't really matter. Like, if you call in sick and the guy said, well, you got to show up anyways.

What?

And I just hang up and I just never, never went there again. Oh, I don't know. I never heard from them again. Like, and then, um, at the, at the other one, I just, I wasn't fast enough at doing the dishes in the restaurant. Yeah, I know, I suck. Like, I can't even, I can't even do that.

You can't even do dishes.

I know. And I, I just like, I put in effort. Like, it's not like I didn't want What's wrong with me?

What do you need me to do? Yeah, yeah.

So he's like, well, you can try again tonight, um, or you can just leave. And I was like, I'm out of here, you know. So I just left, and he didn't have one that night. So that kind of made me feel good. Like, I guess that was like my revenge. I don't know, I was just like, why would I work tonight if I— I honestly did my best. Like, yeah, I can do better.

I remember I, uh, Uh, when I, like, I, one of the— I got fired from like every single job apart from the last one. I just left. I walked into the, like, the last kind of main one I had when I was actually working full-time. I just went in and I was— had YouTube going at this stage, and I just said, hey, you know, I'm gonna leave. And he was really cool about it. He like understood, like, he watched my videos and he was like, no, these are actually pretty good. You give good advice, like, go do your thing. So he was actually a cool boss, um, and they're still doing well, that company, now, you know. So I never I'm always like, I quit my job, but I'm actually like, I actually like him. He was nice. But the other ones before that, man, if you ever had a woman boss, this one was just, I swear to God, she was the only, for some reason, the only female boss I've ever had. And she just hated me so much. Maybe she fancied me. I don't know. She just hated me anyways. And like one day she fired me. It was retail job. And like, I could tell she was so happy to fire me because I just like showed up late like twice and then they're just like, you're gone. And it was such a night, like no money. And I was like, actually kind of needed it, but I also hated the job. But such a weird feeling getting fired. Like, it's not a good feeling.

It's not a good feeling. No. So after this, I actually got a job at someone who was an entrepreneur who also was in my school. Yeah. Like in the, in the school before when you're young. And so he was, he was like a gamer guy that made a gaming business. He built it into like millions of dollars. Oh, he was like 17. What? The guy's, yeah, he's, he's so smart. He's called Pim de Witte, Pim the White, I guess you could say. Um, he lives in America now and, uh, we still, we still, we're still in touch sometimes. Yeah, he's building like even way bigger businesses now, uh, just all in the tech space and stuff. Um, so he was pretty much a whiz kid back in the day. And I got a job at his office, which were all like friends of his, just young kids.

Yeah.

And I kind of saw some potential there for like entrepreneurship when he was, when he was doing that. So I was— that definitely inspired me to like, you know, start the business. And, um, I started the business when I was on this job. Yeah. But it was a, you know, a side job, so it probably paid a little bit more, but, you know, not more like than like maybe 10 euros an hour. Yeah. Top 15, I'm not sure, maybe 15. So my first sale that I made was, I think, €150. So I woke up with like €150 in my PayPal. Yeah, he paid €150.

I'm like, isn't that crazy?

My ex-girlfriend, who I was scared of, like, yeah, it's not a bitch. No, no, no, no, I'm just joking. Yeah. And so I showed it to her and I'm like, I just didn't believe it, you know? And that was kind of like the first glimpse of of what's possible, because if that's possible, then it can also go 10x, 100x.

Yeah, that's crazy.

It's online. Yeah, some, some random guy from America bought my stuff. I'm like, what was it?

Was like a program?

Oh yeah, like coaching.

Yeah, yeah, that's the same as me. Uh, it wasn't even that much. I think it was like, actually it was for one of my ebooks, it was like €30, and then there was like a package you could buy like 2 of them for €50. So it was one of them, and it's just the same feeling. Like, it was when I woke up as well, like it was overnight, which is always a wild It's wild because you're like, oh, I just made money while I sleep. And that's the craziest feeling ever. And it's like the most motivational thing ever. And so when did you like, when did you feel I'm on something? When did you feel success? Like, when did you start like moving out and, you know, when did life start, start taking a little upward trend?

Yeah. So it all went pretty fast from like that point on. Yeah. Because as I said, like I made this first sale or the first couple of sales and then one video went viral, kind of like all at the same time. And it probably was so bad because I was— because I saw the potential. I was putting so much energy into it. So I was literally like from morning until evening, I was like working on my laptop. My parents were also looking at me like, what are you doing? Like, they didn't know me like that. I was always kind of like chilling, hanging out on the streets, like not really doing anything, not having ambition. Yeah. And I was never like studying for university. It was difficult. And I was all of a sudden just behind my laptop and working and doing stuff. And talking to the camera, they looked at my YouTube videos, they were like, Ryan, you never talk to us. Yeah, yeah, we don't know you like this. I was talking like, blah, blah, blah. For me, it's kind of like a personal diary, I guess, because I'm kind of like an introvert.

Yeah.

Even with my parents, I maybe found it kind of hard to like, you know, talk a lot. So on YouTube, I was just like chatting stuff all the time and like talking about, you know, lifting. And also the people around me weren't really doing it. So I was just kind of like just obsessed with the online thing.

Would you, if you, if you had a kid and you saw him like doing that, Would you be like proud or how would you feel?

Yeah, like, but my parents told me also when I was young, like, even if you become a garbage man, like, we don't care as long as you're happy. So do what makes you happy. I think that's, that's kind of like the way we were raised. And I think that's nice.

Yeah. Yeah.

You're—

but your parents, I've met, I've met both your parents. I've obviously met your dad. He has a letter. He has a letter.

No, you didn't meet him.

I haven't met him.

He wants to meet you. Oh, what? They always talk about meeting you.

Yeah. Why do I feel like I've met him?

Yeah, because you probably see him on the videos. Oh my God.

Well, I know exactly who they are and that they seem They seem like really nice parents.

They are. So that obviously means a lot. And they wanted me to study, of course, even though they would say like, you can do anything you want. They wanted me to study. Let's be real. But yeah, I think with my kid, that would be a bit different. Yeah. But I don't think everyone should be an entrepreneur. So it's, you got to kind of figure out what works for you.

Yeah.

It's just kind of seemed my thing. So it all went pretty fast because, you know, I made these couple sales, video went viral. So I went from 5K to 10K subscribers, which obviously also doubled kind of like declines that I got. Yeah. And I was taking the business pretty serious. So I started running ads already, like with a couple of euros a day maybe, but like it kind of worked back then.

Back then it would. Yeah, it was way more effective, especially in that era.

So Facebook ads were super effective. If I knew it now, I would put all the money into it. Back in there, I didn't obviously know. Yeah, and I didn't know what I was doing. And then I had $20K that next month, and when I had $20K, I dropped out of university. Oh, so it actually kind of went in a period of 4 months where I went from just going to university, building this website, just working on it, but not really earning anything, making YouTube videos 3 times a week, going to the gym 5 times a week, prepping my meals. Like it was the most hectic shit ever, but it was kind of easy because I was young. I had so much energy. Yeah. And I had a mission, you know, so like a very clear vision that I had. So I just went for it and then I dropped out of when I had like 20K I was making about like $10K a month already. Yeah, not in profit, but, you know, in sales. So I kind of showed my parents and that was kind of proof that I needed.

Yeah, I remember when I like I bought an Audi A5 and I moved out and I was pretty young, you know, I was like maybe 25, if not— wait, I was like 24 even, which is when you're 24, like most kids are still in college and have like nothing. They're just living off like, you know, working part-time jobs in retail, they maybe have a couple hundred bucks in their account. So they didn't believe me until I did that. And yeah, I showed them my accounts as well and everything.

Yeah, for me it was the same. I got an Audi. If I actually did, we are just the same person.

We're the same person.

And that kind of showed people around me indeed, like, oh, he's on to something. Yeah, because everybody in my school would also say like, you're stupid for dropping out. This is a bad decision. You're going to regret this later. And actually, even like up until this day, like even a couple of years ago, they would come to me at a festival and be like, do you really think it's smarter you dropped out? You have no idea what I'm doing. Like, my God, I just see one, one clear, one path. That's the path for everybody. And they don't understand.

Like, it's so wild.

Limitless.

You know, I remember like I was being asked by like, I think it was at an interview or something and they're like, what's your biggest regret? And I was like, I had to have a think, and it's still probably the same now, is going to college for 2 years. I, I, because I did 2 years and then I failed actually all my exams.

Yeah, I did about 2 as well.

Yeah, I failed all my exams and they're like, you have to repeat the year. And I'm like, of course I'm not going to do that, like 3 years in first year. It's like, I'd rather just literally just, I don't know, leave this planet and fucking, I don't know, anyways. So I dropped out, and my biggest regret was bothering to do those 2 years. I was like, I know I learned, you only learn it afterwards. Maybe if I did 1 year, 2 years was just like so stupid. And it was just like, if I— because to go to college in Ireland, I don't know what it is now, but I think the course I was doing, I think it was like €6,000 a year. So if I got that €12,000 and that 2 years to put into my business, I'd be I would have had Rob Lipsett at 27, you know. So that's, I guess that's my biggest regret. But if that's my only regret, well, then I think I'm doing pretty good in life. But yeah. So would you force your kids to like go that route, go to college or, you know, when you, when you do, when you see—

I mean, I wouldn't, wouldn't force. Yeah. Anything. But like, I don't exactly know by that time, like what the, what the options are. Yeah. I talked with David about this as well. Yeah. But there is a lot more options I think now.

Yeah.

Than there used to be back in the day. Yeah. So we'll see. Yeah.

Yeah.

They should explore like what, what they are good at, what makes them happy, how they can help people, you know. So it's— yeah, probably different. Yeah.

And so what would be a piece of advice you would give the Marijn just starting out?

Focus on one thing.

Nice.

I just focus on way too many things at the same time. Later, when I started my first business, it started kind of doing well pretty quick. And then which is this? I was doing aesthetics. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. So then I'm like, okay, well, I can start something else. I don't know if I started the clothing line first or something else, but, you know, doing clothing, doing, you know, another business, another business. Like there's like an alcohol business. And then I started Lifestyle the Book, which was separate from Student Aesthetics. It was like Student Aesthetics, my shirt lifestyle with business partners. Also had Crystal Limited, which was clothing line with a business partner.

Yeah.

So it's all kind of like at the same time, different businesses with different people. And I'm just a guy, like I said, I'm an introvert. I like being alone.

Yeah.

And the same kind of like with the business, I realized like I just kind of like doing my own thing. Yeah, I don't like, you know, building a big team. Yeah, that's what we did with My Shredded Lifestyle. It became a bestselling book. We sold in 150 countries actually, which is insane.

I didn't even know that.

Yeah, it's crazy. But mostly, mostly in the Netherlands. And then we started an office, saw a couple of years ago, an office with employees. they'd just be sitting there like, I'll, I'll be coming to work every day. I'm just feeling like this is literally the life I didn't want. Yeah, yeah, I remember 3 years ago.

Yeah, I remember. So we're going to go in on that, right? Yeah, I remember like looking at your stories and everything and being in the office and all like, what's going on here? So wait, okay, give me the breakdown because I know you had some beef with the business partners as well and that you like Yeah, and they don't do it anymore. So I'm like, give me— how did you just start doing all that? Like, how did you start going from My Student Aesthetics to My Shredded Lifestyle? Where'd you think of the name? How did you get all these employees? What was a day-to-day life there? And how did it all end? AI might be the most important new computer technology ever. It's storming every industry, and literally billions of dollars are being invested. So buckle The problem is that AI needs a lot of speed and processing power. So how do you compete without costs spiraling out of control? Some upgrade to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, or OCI. OCI is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has 4 to 8 times the bandwidth of other clouds, offers one consistent price instead of variable regional pricing. And of course, nobody does data better than Oracle. So now you can train your AI models at twice the speed and less than half the cost of other clouds. If you do wanna do more and spend less, like Uber, 8x8, and Databricks Mosaic, take a free test drive of OCI at oracle.com/gameplan. That's oracle.com/gameplan. Go check it out.

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All right. So we, we go from Student Aesthetics to My Shredded Lifestyle. All of a sudden we have different business partners, different businesses. We've got staff, we've got a physical office, we got Mariah commuting into work. How did this start? And where did you think of the name My Shredded Lifestyle? How did the business operate? Like, what was the main source of revenue for the business? And then how did you— why did you end up kind of leaving it?

All right, so yeah, my short life was kind of a long process, but we started in, I think, 2017. And so I started Student Aesthetics in 2016. So kind of like the end of 2017. So I was maybe doing the Student Aesthetics for about 2 years. Ball was really rolling, things were going well, had over 100,000 subscribers. And then 2 guys came to me with an idea to pitch me an idea. And this was an idea for coffee. That was their first idea. So, and then they realized like I didn't really like the idea or I didn't want to promote it. They started thinking of another idea and they came up with a book. Like my shredded lifestyle. We didn't really have the name back then, but they came up with a book and the idea of like showing people my lifestyle, intermittent fasting, how to combine getting in shape with, you know, going to festivals and partying, which was my unique selling point. And so we wrote a book about it, um, which I did most of the writing. They kind of like made it even a little bit better. They, you know, helped me out with all the research and everything. They put the whole book together, uh, had a designer do everything. So they they were operating the business and I was just the front guy making the videos, doing the ads, shooting everything and writing the book, of course, and just the promotion in general. Yeah. So they were kind of like the backbone of the business. So they were important. It's not like I split ways with them because they were not good or didn't help me at all.

Okay.

I saw that without them I wouldn't have started My Shredded Lifestyle.

Yeah.

So they came with the idea for the book. Which really turned into a success, became a bestseller. And then, well, it's a whole story. I don't want to like—

wait, wait, wait, slow down for a minute. So I don't mean to interrupt, but so with a book, right? I've written a book as well. It was also on the bestseller list. There's not much money in books. Like, you know, you didn't self-publish the book. And yeah, no, self-published. Okay, right. That was my question. Yeah, I did it with Penguin. Yeah, and you get like a few euros per book. I know, even they give you an upfront salary or an upfront payment, which is like pretty good, and then you get like a few euros per the book. So that's why when you're saying all this, I'm like, where's the money come from?

Okay, that's why I'm saying it's a real business. It takes real work because they were kind of the— we were our own publisher. Okay, 365 Brands is the name of the company, and that was the publishing— we're a publishing company too.

Okay.

And so our own book.

And so wait, so when you sell a book, like how much profit do you make roughly?

And you sold like how many? Um, I wouldn't know exactly, but €10, which is good. Yeah, even a bit more.

Yeah, that's a lot. I was getting like €1.

So yeah, well, probably a bit more. Um, depends on— like, the second book was a bit more expensive, it was €30. Yeah, you have Black Friday and those kind of things are less expensive. Maybe an average of €10, and we sold about, um, like 25,000 books.

Okay.

And I still sell these books up until this day. Okay, so they're still on like Bol.com, which is sort of an Amazon in the Netherlands. People buy it every day. They have been still for years. It's been so many years since we wrote it, you know.

So, okay. Right. So now that I understand that, I want to go back to the business partners. So they're, they're running things. You're going into the office.

Yeah. So just a lot of stuff happened with the business part. I don't want to get into the details because we also had— I went to court a couple of times. Yeah, for real. Which I won everything. So it's Yeah, and that was me and one of the partners first. Um, so we were— they were actually friends and it just ended really badly. But yeah, that's, that's all. Yeah, I'm not gonna get into those details. You never know when you get sued again, you know.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, I was about to pry, but I'm gonna—

so later, um, actually about one year ago, well before that, you know, the two of us were left and we started, uh, you know, growing the business again. We started hiring more people. We obviously needed someone to replace the other guy too. And at this time we were also— we put Synaesthetics into My Short Lifestyle, the coaching business. Yeah, because it's logical when you sell a book, it was kind of weird. Like I was doing My Short Lifestyle with business partners, I was doing my own coaching, but selling the book and the coaching kind of goes hand in hand.

Yeah.

If you build the email list for My Short Lifestyle, you kind of want to use it on the coaching aspect.

Of course, that's like perfect, perfect match.

So at some point we just kind of like merged those businesses. And so it was the two of us and then we started started first working with, you know, it's just freelance coaches. And then later on we started, you know, expanding to having people on the team, uh, also hiring my best friend Stan and Matt.

Yeah, yeah, Stan.

So he started first helping me like sell, uh, pack the Student Aesthetics t-shirts back in the day, and then later also doing coaching. Uh, he's at some point he started doing coaching for himself now, which is doing well. Yeah, he was kind of our first, maybe our first employee. Yeah. So before that, we just worked with a lot of freelancers, about 15 or so. So he was kind of managing all the freelancers because they were all coaches. So it was cool. Like we would do days with the coaches and, you know, built this, this, this whole team. But it's also a lot of headache involved when you work with, you know, all these freelancers, all these different people. Yeah. And they expect obviously me to be the leader as well.

Yeah.

So that was kind of the role that I wanted. I thought I wanted. But then at some point when, you know, we had like people sitting in the office and working there also, you know, an assistant and all in the same place, I felt really like obligated to go to the office because, you know. Yeah, yeah.

You'd feel kind of guilty.

You don't want to show up every day at like 10:30 when they are there at 9:00, you know what I mean? So you want to be there before them. You want to, you know, show them a good example. And then I realized and I heard all these entrepreneurs talk about this and this is how you lead a team. And I would do all those things right. And I was like, I just don't like this. It just started like, it just started draining my energy, you know? Yeah. Um, so yeah, I just realized like that, that's not really for me. And at some stage I, um, also thought like my Shredded lifestyle doesn't really align anymore with my current vision, which is more about not just being in shape but also feeling mentally well, which my Shredded lifestyle kind of wasn't in a sense. Yeah, because it was really focused on, you know, the word shredded. Yeah. Being super lean, being shredded, because at some stage I kind of hit a dark period in my life where I realized like getting shredded all the time doesn't really make me happy, you know? Yeah. And at some point it kind of helped me with, you know, building my brand and growing on Instagram and YouTube. But it didn't really, you know, it wasn't really sustainable in the long term.

No.

So like helping all these people get super shredded, like, what is that really what I still want to do or do I want to help them like become the best version of themselves? Physically, but also mentally. My audience started getting a bit older as well. So I also realized, like, it's not really what a lot of them want.

Yeah.

And what is realistic for a lot of these people.

Exactly.

So that's when I kind of started changing my whole mindset towards it for myself, but also for the people I wanted to help. And then me and my business partner kind of disagreed on some things, like he wanted to go in a different direction with the business. I want to go in another direction. So at some stage, after very long, you know, discussions, I bought him out. Bought his shares. So now I own 100% of the company, which is nice. Also, yes, you always just feel like, you know, you're not really the, the full owner, which can be okay, but then I don't know, it can feel weird. For a long time it felt right, but at this point, at some stage when you just have two completely different visions, it starts clashing. Um, yeah, you don't work towards the same goal anymore, and then things get a little weird because you both have shares. I had more shares in the business already It just starts—

it gets weird. I know exactly. It gets difficult. Yeah, yeah, from Fuel Cakes. Yeah, so I, I started it with— I don't name all names, it's like an agency in London, and sometimes they'll do a revenue share. We did like an equity share, so I gave them like, I think it was 30%, and it was just like we had like a bad communication. Like, you know, it would take weeks to respond. You'd be waiting like weeks for someone to send an email back to like do something. And then so like that was for like 2 years and then we decided to part ways and you kind of have to start from zero. Like, you know, we had to get like a new manufacturer, I had to design new— just start from zero everything again. So you got to be— anyone listening to this, you got to be so careful at who you get into business with. And most times, oftentimes, it's just cleaner to just start the product yourself. Start the coaching business yourself. And yeah, hey, maybe, you know, it's going to take a little bit of extra work doing it on your own, but I've never really met someone who said, oh, I regret doing it on my own, you know, like at the beginning. Yeah, then when it gets really big, then sure, you can bring in a professional and more people. But at the beginning, you know, if it's something that you can start yourself, just do it yourself.

So I think so too, because in the beginning you have time, which is very scarce later on. Yes. But in the beginning you don't have money, so you have time but no money.

Yeah.

So when you're— when you want to start a product business, of course it's different. You probably need some cash. But if you want to start like service business or an online product, you don't necessarily need a lot of cash. So then you don't necessarily need investors, you don't need to go to the bank, you don't need a business partner who maybe has the funds or has like this other expertise. Yeah, unless you have some very specific— if you're like super good like in front of a camera and you can only do that, but you, you just cannot do the all the, you know, the admin stuff, which I think, I think you can learn a little bit, but you can just hire people.

You just hire people.

You can hire freelancers.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I pretty much still do to this day. Like, I give, uh, I have like a sales team that work off commission. Yeah, I have like a setter that works on commission.

Smart.

Yes, you can do commission. That's what I do with everything. I, I have an assistant coach. Yeah, commission. Everything's just commission. And so it's fair, they know what they're going to earn. I know that it's always going to be profitable because I'm not paying these salaries. And you have a bad month, you're still paying the same salaries. I, I operate— I'm kind of like you, I operate a very lean business, and I don't kind of, how do I say, have it like rent an office and, and employees that are there every day. Because there's days where like you're paying for people to just sit there and you're not— they're not making sales.

So that would kind of be the issue back then, that like, oh, go to the office too, um, have all these employees, but then you know, maybe some months don't go as well. You know, summertime, people don't buy coaching, people go on vacation. Or, you know, if I have a couple of bad months, maybe I make less videos, maybe I— the promo doesn't go as well, maybe the algorithm is fucked. Like, there are so many things that can happen, um, but those people, you still have to pay them every month.

That's what I'm saying, you know.

So if you average out over the year, I kind of looked at and I'm like, yeah, it's, um— and it's just separate from the numbers, it's just a lot of stress. In those months, I would literally feel like like, you know, the business will be collapsing. Like, yeah, if we keep this up another month, we will be dead, you know. That's how I would just feel. I would feel like, even if it wasn't, like, even if it wasn't, what if this, you know, goes twice as bad, you know? Then we're— we have, you know, you would just like, yeah, catastrophize those things. Yeah. Um, and so I realized like, yeah, this, this kind of like model is really not for me. I think you kind of inspired me too, because I think a couple years ago I asked you like, don't you want to like, you know, scale up your business or hire people? And you kind of explained the model to me I'm like, you're also like, you know, I live in Marbella, I live my best life. I go to the beach every day. Like, you know, I have this villa with the pool. It's like, what more do you need? Yeah. And I'm like, I've never been the guy who wants to have the biggest business in the world or make the most amount of money. So I kind of just want to live a really good life.

Yeah.

And that's also possible without employees and without having that stress by kind of like focusing more on making it a lean business.

Exactly. Yeah, I think I've pretty much got the best life ever.

Yeah, I know.

I think like, you know, me, Mike, and Louie were saying like, we're like, oh, out of all the kind of like fitness guys and everything, like we've got that really happy medium in, in terms that we have an amazing lifestyle, very relaxed and free lifestyle, and we also make like more than a doctor or, you know, all these conventional, conventional jobs, and that we've just got a really nice lifestyle. Like, you know, Christian works He has no work-life balance.

Exactly.

He doesn't want it. He doesn't want it. But I'm just using an example of someone who just loves work and is all in it. Then whereas someone like me and Mike would just be on the opposite end, that it's just a different type of thing. So yeah, I think I've smashed it, honestly. I think I've found a really nice balance. And now that brings me on to a point that I really want to speak about with you, and it is burnout. So that's something that was a big thing. I was really worried about you at the time. You made that video and you just, you got like, you've made, you described it once and you're like, it's, you were hallucinating, like you're seeing shit. So talk me through, like, when did the burnout begin? What was the cause of it? And, you know, I want to go in on this so we can help other people do the same, avoid it.

Yeah. So basically this happened in 2020, I suppose. It probably— like, it, it's not something that just happens out of nowhere, so it took many years, I suppose. Uh, so it's kind of hard to backtrack, but in a bit, in a way you can, because I was just getting shredded so many times, you know.

I'm really— you think the diet was the—

oh, definitely, definitely part of it. Yes, I thought it would be work.

Oh, definitely part of it, but I think it would be work.

It is work-related. Um, so a lot of it is work-related, but Combining it with just not really taking care of yourself physically because you look shredded, you look amazing, but like that's not really what's happening on the inside. Yeah, because your hormones are low. Yeah, my testosterone was like an old man.

Yeah.

And I worked so hard at the same time, like really, really hard, like every day from morning until evening. And I had all this, this stress just piling up from, you know, all this stuff with, with the business partners, but also some personal stuff. Which one day I'll talk about. I've never spoken about it. Oh really? That's sort of a point. Yeah, the personal—

can you give us a little—

no, I can't. Like, no, I can't. This is a personal struggle of mine, uh, something that happened, uh, one day I'll talk about it. But that's a big factor, which— yeah, so I don't talk about it. And then the other factor is, you know, the physical part, just being shredded all the time, not sleeping well, which got worse and worse. And I just kept going and kept working, uh, without taking action. And then also some things that I learned later from, yeah, from like therapy where I have a really— I had a really hard time saying no to things, to opportunities, to people. So I said yes to pretty much everything and I had no boundaries, you know, and I should get more successful. More people want something from you, way more people, and there are way more opportunities than ever. So I said yes to a lot of these things and I just had a hard time saying no. Pretty much had that forever. And that's kind of what led to me just slowly burning out more and more.

And like, what did it like feel like? Like, was anxiety attacks?

Yes. It started with just feeling kind of depressed and, you know, not, not feeling right, just knowing something is off, which let's say you don't go to the gym for a while, you eat like shit, you feel— you don't feel right. Yeah, but it felt like this while I was doing everything kind of perfect and then way worse, you know, my thoughts just became negative, negative, like all negative. While normally they are just positive. Yeah, I'm just, you know, I'm also always a positive guy.

Big friendly giant.

I know.

Friendly Dutch giant.

So I didn't feel like that anymore.

Ryan lights up a room physically and emotionally whenever he walks into it.

Yeah, I appreciate that. So yeah, so basically that started happening and I started like just feeling bad about myself and about things and I still kept up kind of like the mask for the outside. Which costs a lot of energy. Oh yeah, if you make YouTube videos and you actually don't feel excited but you're acting excited, that's tough. It's tough and it's not sustainable, especially now with the type of videos that we make. If it's kind of like real life, I didn't really want to share it because I don't know, I had a formula that worked. I had a formula that worked, so I kind of kept sticking to that. Um, so yeah, I put on a little bit of a mask, which later I dropped when I hit that point of burnout. But before that, you know, so pretty much so many factors just stacked together. Yeah. And then, yeah, just combined with, you know, the low testosterone, not taking care of myself, and then just working so much. Then at some point I like, let's say I walk into this room, I would see lights like flickering.

I remember you said this.

Yeah. And this, this kind of got worse and worse over the days. And so I was like, I'm becoming blind or like, what the fuck is happening? You know? So it was actually like insane. And this also happened when I was walking outside and it kind of got worse and worse, you know, just I saw like the lights. Yeah, it's kind of like a hallucination.

Ryan was saying, I'm sorry, I'm taking shrooms.

I promise I wasn't doing shrooms. So yeah, with no drugs like that was happening, it's insane. And then later I started, you know, getting really big anxiety and then also like panic attacks and just my heart like beating out of my chest. Yeah, I just felt like, like, shit, am I, am I dying? Like, do I need to go to the, to the doctor? Like, Yeah, just crazy stuff without caffeine or without anything. Oh, out of nowhere, just like the heart racing. And so, and then at some point I just like totally kind of collapsed and I just couldn't— I barely could like think properly anymore. Like, yeah, bro, it's crazy. So some people will say, you know, like, Andrew, all right now. Yeah, I got over it. Some people like, you know, Andrew Tate will say burnout is not real.

Yeah.

If he explains it though, he would say like, you know, I don't want to think myself into a burnout. I can understand.

I understand some of the stuff he says, he just delivers something.

But the stuff is real though. Like, it can actually happen where you physically and mentally actually burn out.

Yeah, I'm sure.

And I couldn't even—

like, a heart monitor on, you could physically rate it.

And I couldn't train. Like, I would be weak as hell, you know. So it, uh, yeah, it was definitely real. And after that, pretty much I knew what was happening because I already obviously up until this was slowly building up, so I knew what was happening. And, um, so I also went to the doctor, of course, and everything. Um, they would put a label on it, which for me didn't really matter.

Yeah, what did they say?

Usually it's burnout, like, yeah, yeah. But, um, I already kind of knew what was happening, so I just knew like I need to take rest. So I pretty much texted everybody like, um, it's like hard to say, but like, I can't, I can't work, like, this is, this is happening. You're kind of like just sick, like you can't work. So I took, um, luckily the business was kind of could go on by itself, which is good. So I was lucky with that, which is something that worked for us for many years. And then having the right partners, which was important at that time, like L-Fleet, I kind of like put a hold on it. I put a hold on my protein because I've been working with them for a while. So I'm just being honest, like, can't work for a while. I don't know when I'll be back, but you don't have to pay me. Oh, and so when I, when I recovered, I just sent a message like, hey, I'm back.

Oh, no way.

And they start paying me again. So I think that's kind of the right way to do business.

And I'd be like, okay, I'm taking a month off.

Yeah, I could say it. But I didn't know.

I'm like, come on, Christian.

I didn't know how many months it was going to be. Yeah, I was like, I read it, just be honest, because yeah, that's, that's better. I've been working with these companies for so long. Yeah. So I read it, just be honest, and then whatever happens, I can go back to it, you know?

Okay.

Um, which was a smart move.

Yeah, no, I'm sure they probably respected that.

I think those things are kind of smart, uh, for a reputation as well.

Yeah.

So basically I took time off, uh, first it was just like recovering on the couch pretty much. Just feeling like total shit for a while. I went to, um, like a yoga and a meditation retreat in Portugal. Oh, so I went there for like a week on my own, uh, with like pretty much no phone, like nothing. And that really helped me, uh, get a lot of insights too. Yeah, and I got therapy at the same time, which like I pretty much went all in on like, what can I do better? Yeah, and yeah, like what can I do to get better? How do other people recover? And I recovered pretty, pretty fast, like within, say, 3 months or so.

3 months? I'd say like 3 weeks.

No, no, no, 3— well, 2, maybe 2 months when I already kind of started doing some stuff. Yeah. So I started, you know, picking up the sponsorships but doing like the minimal required amount of work.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I, I literally started, um, I have this— did I had this burnout coach, so I did this whole buildup of this week you're going to work 2 hours a day, which was tough. You can't imagine. Like, yeah, man. Yeah, bro. Like, you build it up to like 2 hours, 3 hours for, you know, slowly build up. So yeah.

So you took— you essentially just took on too much. You got and you got overwhelmed. So your advice, how do— what's your advice for someone to avoid burnout?

Well, firstly, like, you know, I did all these things at the same time, like way too much, like taking on way too many things. So if you're an entrepreneur, like, it's always kind of smart if you want to build a business to focus on one thing, focus on one business growing instead of all these different businesses. Um, also think about, you know, YouTube channel, podcast, Instagram, like, oh yeah, all these different platforms and doing so much by myself. So pretty much like delegating the right way. Yeah, I'm having the right people help you. Also just don't take on too much, but rather focus on quality and quantity, and then being able to say no to people. Which I had to learn the hard way. Also, don't try to be friends with everybody, which I tried for a very long time. So even with this therapist, we wrote down like a circle of me and then my closest friends. You were there. And very well, thanks. You know, another circle of, you know, maybe some people you're cool with, but you don't want to hang out with them every week, you know? Yeah. And then maybe some people— and then also some people with like crosses, like they're gone. Oh, you know what I mean? It's kind of tough.

But yeah, that's it.

If you're trying to hang with so many people and try to make everybody happy and like, please, like like, and they cost more energy than they give. And you give all this energy, you don't get it back. At some point you gotta, you know, cut them out of your life. I think it's a reality, especially as you get older, you have less and less time.

Yeah.

Which I really learned now in these last few years. You just have way less time, which will get even, you know, you're, you're, you're getting a baby at some stage. Yeah, soon, hopefully. Yeah. And so then the time will become even less. Oh yeah. And I should start building a family, so I think those are kind of like the key things that obviously take care of yourself physically. Sleep is one of the most underrated and the most— one of the most kind of like easy, easy things. Everybody talks about it, but no one wants to listen.

I know, because it's a boring talk.

It's a boring, boring talk.

Like, no, it puts you to sleep. No pun intended, you know? Like, yeah, but I've only— so yeah, I've only actually started tracking my sleep like properly like 2, 3 weeks ago. I've had this. I didn't realize I was getting like 6 hours sleep like most nights. Most nights. And now I'm like, oh my God, it's just eye-opening how different you feel even with like an hour extra or a deeper quality sleep. And again, it's a boring thing to even tell people to do. Like, I try and tell one of my clients who's like, he was like not training hard enough and, you know, not sticking to his diet and he was having loads of cravings and it was all to do with his sleep. He was like fucking working till 1 AM on his laptop and stressing himself out. And it was like, you know, I was like, bro, this sounds hard for me to tell you because it sounds so simple. Go to bed earlier and your diet and your training will sort itself out. And it did.

It did.

Yeah, he made more of an effort now with sleep. He stopped working late and just everything improves. It's crazy. I think, I think that's the most important thing. This thing, I don't know if you've ever worn a Whoop.

No, I'm thinking of getting this. I never liked to sleep with a— so I have this watch, but I don't like to sleep with it.

I got, I got both. I, I got the An Ultra Human ring and, uh, this. I got them at the same time to see which one, because I want to start tracking my sleep. Actually found they're both really good. And basically my conclusion— I'm gonna do a full video on it— conclusion is wear whichever one you don't mind wearing. So with the ring, I couldn't lift weights, and, uh, it was kind of like when I was on my laptop, it kept like— because it's quite a thick ring, it has like a machine in it, it's not like a conventional small ring.

Yeah.

So it was always hitting off my laptop, and then in found it got like really sweaty when I was sleeping. So event— this does still get a little bit annoying, but after the first week you get used to it. And like, I pop, I pop it off when I'm jumping in the shower for like a minute, even though you're not— you're technically meant to wear it 24/7. But just go whatever one you, uh, you don't mind wearing. Yeah, so maybe some people it's a ring, you know, some people don't mind rings. I, I found this better. But basically they both track sleep really well because is you can like wake up in the middle of the night and like go to the bathroom and not remember it. Like, you literally won't remember it, especially if you're drinking or something. But this thing will— it'll detect movement, you walking up. So it's crazy, and you see it all in the morning. Like, it's not— it's like, that's the biggest factor. So yeah, get your sleep in, people. And, um, so how you pulled yourself out of this burnout? From just basically focusing on your health and wellness. So the Portugal— the Portugal meditation retreat.

Yeah, that's how we can say it.

Yeah. Were you with, with Lenny at the time?

Yeah, I was. Yeah.

Okay. And that helped a lot, of course.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

There's a lot of times when, like, believe it or not, I do get really stressed and I get anxious as well, you know, like super anxious and overwhelmed. Like when I have like a lot of stuff to do and I'm just like not doing it, that's anxiety. I think anxiety can be a good thing in a way because it makes it— oh yeah, it's a real human response. Like, you know, it exists for a reason. But the way I do it is I just, I tackle my to-do list head on. And then as long as I'm productive and doing all that, it goes away. But Linda as well, she is like the most chilled, relaxed person ever. She— I think Lenny's kind of the same. They're very like feminine, nurturing partners. What we need is what we need. It's why we're all—

we are with who we are.

But yeah, I think that that's super helpful as well. And so when you started feeling back to normal, like you felt good and then you kind of got back into lifting and everything, and then you went on some TRT journey.

No, see, this actually happened before. Oh, what? Yeah. So, yeah, so I didn't—

I didn't take— kind of could have been part of the reason.

I don't think it was part of the reason. I think it delayed it, actually.

Okay.

So, so, so months before this, I already started. Yeah. As I said, feeling depressed, feeling bad, having low testosterone. Yeah. So I started checking my levels at the doctor, did 3 different tests on different, you know, time spans. And my testosterone levels were low as a, you know, a 60-year-old guy, 70-year-old guy. And before this I did, you know, the Men's Health, Men's Health shoot. Yeah. But 6 weeks before that I did a men's physique show and I gained 20 pounds after the men's physique show. I had to lose it all before the Men's Health shoot again. Oh no. I was just going into this, this yo-yo effect. And, you know, before this I was getting shredded, you know, 5, 5 times a year. Yeah. The years before, you got— my levels just didn't seem to go to get up. But I also didn't, as I said, take care of myself, you know, take care of that, that sleep. Work less. I didn't focus on those things because I felt like I have to keep this up for the lifestyle I'm living, you know, to do well on YouTube, to keep making money. I have all these business partners I'm working with, so, you know, I got to be on top of my game. And so basically that's when TRT came into play, which is testosterone replacement therapy, where this is something that usually older men take if testosterone goes down to raise it again to natural levels. But there is a lot of obviously you know, bad things that come with it or like risks, let's say risks or side effects which don't happen for everyone but can happen. And that's why I was actually way too young to be doing it. Yeah, but I saw it kind of as my only option. And I heard stories from other entrepreneurs, but also athletes, all these kind of, you know, highly successful people that they were also on TRT, even guys that weren't even training that much for like the mental benefits.

Yeah.

And I felt like, well, this is at the same time I was really not enjoying training because I did the Men's Health cover, which was my biggest goal.

Yeah.

After 10 years of lifting.

Yeah, that's—

I accomplished it.

That's the pinnacle.

Yeah. And before that, I did the Men's Physique show after 10 years of natural lifting. And so I kind of hit my— the goals that I wanted to hit physique-wise. Yeah. And I fell into this really dark hole. This all came at the same time with the burnout. And so what I think happened is that, you know, after I took the testosterone I was like, this, this, this works. I'm like superhuman. I can sleep 5 hours a night, feel fine. I can work even harder now. I can grind even more. So I started working even harder and started like maintaining this shredded physique. Training was fun again. So that was in a way kind of good, I guess. But after some months, you know, the negative effects started hitting in. Yeah, like I feel like the burnout just kind of like It was a Band-Aid, you know, the TRT for the burnout. Yes, yes, probably would have been a good way to describe it. Yeah, so it probably would have happened sooner, but now I kind of delayed this process. But the body keeps a score, so it happened eventually anyways.

Yeah, and they say like when you take, um, testosterone or any steroids, all your feelings are like multiplied, you know. So like if you're aggressive, you'll get more aggressive, or if you're sad, you'll get even more sad. So that could have been a reason for that. And then so you came off everything cold turkey or—

No, so I didn't quit after this burnout right away because I was like, that's probably not a smart thing to do. I feel already— you feel like shit, you know? Yeah, I'm totally down. It's better to like at least keep those testosterone levels normal. So after I recovered from that burnout, after like 8 weeks or so, or maybe after 12 weeks, I came off. So the— I took like a PCT, which was— I wouldn't know. I even shot, I think Greg Doucette Yeah, I think I shot him a message like, which, which one he did like a video on. Yeah. So yeah, I did that. I think it was— I don't— I'm not sure, but it was— I don't know the names anymore. I took two different things.

Well, would it be like Clomid or enclomiphene or HCG?

I think Clomid together with something else.

Yeah, usually it's Clomid, Nolvadex. I don't know the PCTs. But you did a proper one. Not, not a— not, not like an over-the-counter supplement. No, a proper one.

You did a proper one.

Okay. And then how long until you like kind of felt normal again?

About 12 weeks later. Uh, no, 16 weeks later. Well, earlier I felt normal, maybe after 2 months. Yeah, first month was so difficult, or first 6 weeks I started kind of declining. I went to the gym, like I was lifting less heavy. I started looking a bit more buffy, like, I don't know, not, not that pumped anymore. Yeah. And I just, yeah, I just really felt like shit again pretty much. But I already kind of felt like shit. Yeah, I was kind of like, this is maybe kind of like a good time to do it because I'm kind of like on the down anyways, you know, I don't have to post for the sponsors. I don't have to like make videos. I'm out of the running anyway, so it's probably best to like quit it now and then hopefully come back stronger afterwards. Yeah, which I did. So I recovered after, I would say, you know, 8 weeks or so where I kind of start feeling normal. And then after 16 weeks, my levels were higher than they were before. What? Yeah.

Holy shit. That's very impressive.

Sleeping a lot. I was eating properly. I was not worried. Like, I was building up the work from 2 to 3 hours. Yeah, it was all slow, slow lifestyle. And then you realize what sleep and proper, you know, taking care of yourself actually can do.

Fuck. Okay, wait, give me, give me your like tips for sleeping. Like, you're kind of like evening routine. Yes.

For a lot of people, what's important is that you wake up the same time every day, which is very often I wouldn't do. Or I would work until really late. And so you want to have that rhythm, you know, the circadian rhythm gets used to it and then it also knows when it's going to, you know, give you the, what do you call it, the hormone for sleep.

Melatonin.

Melatonin. So that kind of starts at the right time and it also gets suppressed if you, you know, start working really late and doing all these things different. So my rule was kind of like 2 hours before I go to sleep, I close my laptop. I don't have, you know, the screen. And 1 hour before, because you got to keep it realistic too.

Yeah. Yeah.

1 hour before, no phone, which, you know, I tried 2 hours. Sometimes it works, sometimes it didn't. Yeah. Definitely no scrolling before. I always— yeah, I got like angry at my girlfriend. She started scrolling before sleep.

Yeah. So I know it even looks so bad when you see someone doing it. You're like, I don't want— I don't want to be doing that. Like doom scrolling is what it's called.

Yeah, exactly. That's what it is.

It's like so pointless.

Yeah. And then just having a, you know, proper routine and then kind of like doing the same thing before you go to bed. But I think those are the— those are for me the most important things, you know. No, no screen time before that. And then, um, you know, I would maybe read something before sleeping for a while. I did that. That helped me really sleep. I don't read like a non-fiction, uh, like a non-fiction book, you know, about like motivation or— yeah, because those books kind of make you think.

Yeah.

So read, read something like a fiction book, which in the beginning is kind of maybe tough or not fun, you know what I mean? I always read like these non-fiction things about business and stuff.

Ryan took to reading Lord of the Rings. Exactly.

Like, yeah, yeah, it's fine. Like like, you know, you just gotta kind of see it as a way to like fall asleep.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And it's, it's maybe a bit of a tough thing to do if you don't like it, but it really does work. Yeah, maybe because it's— maybe because it's boring.

Yeah, but just like literally fall asleep. Oh man.

Um, so with this e-reader, that works great. And then, um, some, you know, you want to have the good temperature in your room. Yeah, that's just really important. You want to have a dark room, which is really important. Um, so make sure you have proper curtains and stuff. It's kind of the basic thing, but they are so important.

Yeah.

And if I travel, I make sure I have this sleep mask mask, even the things for your ears if there's a lot of noise. And those are some of the things. Lately I've been actually experimenting with these nose strips.

I have them.

Yeah, yeah, because I, I saw— obviously we see Hormozy, you know.

Yeah, yeah, maybe they'll make me better at business.

I probably— I, I didn't really believe in it, but then I just kind of bought them for fun, and we tried them like maybe 2 weeks ago, and it works so good.

Oh yeah, no, it works.

It's just like cheap, you put them on, but like it just really helps.

Yeah, you get like— you go down, it like hits your brain. I know it goes into your brain.

I know. And while you're sleeping, you don't want to breathe through your mouth.

So yeah, so well, it makes you focus on your nose breathing as well.

Yeah. So if someone has a problem with sleeping, that those things work.

Yeah. My biggest one was all them as well. We got like really good like aircon to make us so cold, like especially in the summer in Spain when it's like 35 degrees. Yeah. So essential, like superpower. The blackout blinds, clean sheets, like we wash our— especially your pillows. Wash your pillows. Like, think of all the shit going on them. Like, when your head hits like a clean pillow, you're like, oh, that. And I also, I don't have an alarm for the morning. I have an alarm for the evening being like, go to bed. So at 9 PM, it's like, I think iPhones have like, it's like sleep mode. You put in no notifications come through after like 7 PM. So if you're hitting me up in the evening, I ain't get back to you. That's how I run my business. That. And yeah, alarm saying go to bed. And so one thing that I found out, like, just with, you know, the Whoop thing and just like watching some sleep podcasts and all, it's actually this— even if you're not sleeping, the sooner you go into bed, the sooner you will sleep. Like, if you don't have to— you, you don't have to be like, you know, like this. If you're just in bed, it's like me and Linda will just like, you know, chill at the end of the day. Yeah, well, like, instead of watching a movie, we were like, oh, let's just go up to You know, it might feel—

that might feel difficult to do because you're like, everybody's used to like having, you know, these dopamine hits all day with your phones. So it's kind of a tough thing to do, but it's actually so simple. Yeah. You know, but you just have to kind of— it also helps with like meditation, help me sleep actually, by the way, as well. Yeah.

And also eating, eating, eating a massive meal before bed, that, that like it's nothing to do with fat loss. Like if your calories are the same, you can eat them all before you go to bed. But like, you'll just feel like bloated lying in bed. So that's one thing. I have my last meal now at about like 7 or something, like, whereas in the past when I was quite younger, I'd probably have it at 9 because I'm like, I want to stay anabolic, right? Right.

Tonight. Yes.

That's my main things. And now talk to me about your shift in training because you just recently ran the Marbella Half Marathon. Yeah, correct.

2 days ago.

Sorry I didn't show up.

No, no worries.

Maybe next year.

Yeah.

And so tell me, how did you— like, you did a really good time as well.

Pretty good. Yeah, I almost hit under 2 hours. So it was, you know, that's wild.

And so how did you like get into that and how did you build up your time from a lifter to someone actually getting like impressive running times?

I don't know if it's that impressive. I think maybe for a lifter. Okay, well, I appreciate it. Maybe for a lifter anyways. Yeah. And I've had a lot of injuries on the way, so I started running when, you know, after this TRT thing and when I came off, I was— I had the same problem again. I'm not making gains with lifting anymore, especially now afterwards, you know, you lose the gains. Yeah, I was massive, like these shoulders and stuff. Yeah, so I'm like, I cannot really lift for my aesthetics only because that won't really be fun, you know, compared to what I had.

Yeah, yeah, you always feel like an old picture.

You constantly feel like I lost it.

Yeah.

And so I think that's the problem a lot of people that take roids, if you do one cycle, for example, they'll always obviously different than doing CRT, but if you do one cycle, I'm sure you're gonna keep doing it because you lose all those gains way more than I did even. Yeah, this is very low dose, etc. Um, and then you start feeling bad and do it again. I think that that's a repetitive cycle. So I decided like I'm gonna do more like performance training. So I started doing handstands, it was kind of first thing, calisthenics. So I can almost do the handstand push-ups now, which is pretty awesome. And then like muscle-ups and all that stuff. And then I started running as well. And running, it just gave me the newbie gains again because it literally— you literally start with like running 1 minute, walking 1 minute. Yeah, you know, and now I can run 2 hours straight, which is—

that's crazy, right?

Compared to where I started. So it's so much fun, like, just building that up and making that progress. And then also having a running coach, looking at the technique, learning.

Do you have a running coach?

Yeah, I have a running coach.

Awesome.

And officially I'm a running coach myself now. I got my certificate.

No way.

Yeah, yeah. So I just wanted to learn everything about it because it was so fun. And we, we work together with those coaches too, but I kind of want to know my stuff. So that's because I'm still, you know, an online coach, so I still want to know also what the other coaches are putting on my app, you know, so that it all— that I also understand it myself. So learn a lot from that, learn a lot from the coach, and it just makes it fun again. Like, you just start lifting, you know, the progress. And I did get a lot of injuries, so I twisted my ankle twice where I just completely like went like that, you know, took many months to recover. Shin splints, I get these all the time, so I have to be careful with the volume buildup. Uh, easy rule there is just no more than like 10% volume increase per week. Yeah. And yeah, just basically just how I started and following the proper programs to build it up.

I remember. So I know what you mean by like the quick gains. I like, I started running probably within the last 6 months. Yeah. And like, feel, it just feels way better.

Also does.

I still care about like, you know, fat loss from running and everything.

I do too.

I'm not going to lie. You know, it does. It lets you eat more. Which is great. You know, one thing people are always like, oh yo, don't do cardio for fat loss, it doesn't work. I'm like, yeah, I know it's majority— you can— majority of the fat loss is going to come from diet, but fucking adds up. Like, it does help, you know. So I've never seen when people like— it's just comparing two completely different things.

Yeah, I think very often people look at also just professional bodybuilders and they start comparing them to me, and it's like like, well, I want to be athletic as well. Bodybuilders don't give a fuck about being athletic. They don't care about their cardiovascular system, their health, you know, their heart, which is a muscle, which can all, you know, running actually helps with that.

Yeah. And so, but yeah, my 5K, it started off, I did like 5K, like 30 minutes, and now it's down to like my PR is 22.

That's crazy.

Yeah. In it on a treadmill though. Outside, well, outside it's not too different if it's on a flat.

Outside is way nicer.

Yeah, it's nice as well. You do it, especially in Marbella, like you do it beside the coast. Like the Golden Mile is like made for it.

Like, I know it's perfect for it. Yeah.

And, uh, yeah, it's a good feeling like seeing it come down, and you feel so good after a run as well, even during a run.

So this, this took a while for me to like appreciate the running, because in the beginning when you, when you run for 1 minute, walk 1 minute, you don't really get the runner's high because it's not long enough. But once you start going past a 20-30 minute mark, that's when the running high actually comes.

Okay.

And so now when I'm doing these longer runs you can honestly feel at some stage like, well, now I'm in it.

Oh shit, I don't think I've gotten there yet.

I usually keep up because you do 22 minutes. Yeah, I think if you go longer, that's when you really start and that's when you really start feeling like even more badass, like pumped, like, fuck yeah, it feels so good. And I think running other than lifting helps me with being disciplined again. Yeah, because lifting is just a routine. I'll do it anyways. I love lifting. I've been doing it for 13 years now. I've never skipped weeks, you know, only take a necessary deload. It's like I'll always lift where if I'm on vacation, I'll find gyms. So I just love the gym, but it's kind of a routine. It's easy for me to go. The diet is maybe a little bit harder, but the gym itself is just kind of easy to go there. Yeah, but putting on those running shoes when it's raining outside, that's not easy.

That's so— well, it's pretty easy in Marbella.

It's not raining here. Yeah, it's not raining here. But yeah, just some— or in the evenings, like sometimes I'll say like I'm not going to train in the morning and then in the evenings I'm like, like, shit, I still got to go.

Yeah.

And even now, like, training for a half marathon, you have to go, you know, if I don't go, then I'm not building up this volume. And so you have to go in the evenings and it just, it just sucks in the beginning, like just starting. But then once you're in that runner's high, man, you feel great, man.

You make me want to go for a run.

Yeah.

Made me want to go for a run now.

Yeah.

And my— and also what helped me the most, Louis Armstrong actually told me this, like the slower— when I first started running, I would just sprint. I would just pretty much sprint and I'd be absolutely wrecked after a few minutes and I wouldn't be able to go anymore. The slower, and I imagine this is the case with 40-minute runs, the slower you go, like, and you think you're not moving, like, you know, you're like, feels like speed walking, it feels like speed walking, but you're actually, you actually are. And so once I got past that mental block, then that helped me enjoy it a lot more as well.

Yeah. So I think now if you want to build up to like bigger volume, if you want to do a you should go to 10K now. Yeah. Which is a lot of fun. It feels, it feels way different than a 5K.

Yeah.

The time is great though. I probably wouldn't run a 5K that fast. I can run longer.

I'm like, sprint.

Yeah, it's more like, more like sprinting.

Yeah.

Which is nice. It's a different feel. And running slowly is tough to accept because also people will, you know, people will come past you. It just feels kind of like, yeah, I want to be faster than him. Yeah. You know what I mean? But it works and you got to do about 80% of those slow runs and then 20% you do more like speed work. Interval training, threshold runs, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

So what is next for you in terms of— you got a really solid relationship. You thinking about making some baby aesthetics?

Not yet. So that's going to take a while. First, we're moving somewhere.

Hey, I know where. Are we leaking it on this?

Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So you've confirmed it. Yeah.

We'll be neighbors.

No way. Yeah.

Moving to Marbella. Yeah.

And when do you make the move?

So literally yesterday night we, how do you say it, we sent the email to the apartment.

Okay.

Like next month we want to, you know, go out of it. So 1 November.

Okay. Oh my God.

So that's in a month. Yeah.

Oh, you're going to love it. Like, so I was just like, when you were talking about the running and everything, I'm like, I just want Marianne to be here going on his runs. I want you to be happy.

I am happy here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's a man. I can't believe that it's going to be so exciting. But here, look, You have smashed it today, people. You know where to find Marijn.

Yeah, so YouTube is the place to find me because the other platforms are doing Dutch now. So YouTube. Yeah, there you go. I will upload more since we live here, you know.

There you go. Unreal here. But bro, so good to like— I know we went for dinner, we had the wedding as well, but it was lovely to just like sit down and have a good chat with you, bro. Right. Boom. Love you.

Peace, bro.

Smash this one out. Out.