What your DNA has to say about your risk of getting infected...

Hello, my friends, this is Sachin Patel and welcome to Perfect Practice today. I'm super thrilled and excited to be interviewing a friend and a genetic brother as we'll learn through this presentation. Kashif Khan. Kashif is the owner and founder of There We Go. Is one of the founders of a company called the DNA Company. And their company does amazing work that has given me profound insights into my own health, into my family's health. And it's allowed me to make educated and informed decisions for the clients that I coach and the friends that I've had run this test on them as well. So, Kashyap, thanks for joining us today.

That's awesome to be here. Thanks, Sachin.

Well, it's always a pleasure to connect with you and learn a little bit more about what you're up to. Every time we meet and reconnect, you're always sharing new things and new progress that the company has made. So what are some of the latest innovations at the DNA company?

So the DNA company at its core is a research company. I mean, what we say we do is we interpret DNA, at least we believe in the best way possible. Right. So this language that Dr. Mansoor, who you, I know many of the people listening to, know very well the brilliant mind he has in taking what seems to be probability based and making it highly actionable. Right. So we take the DNA insights that kind of lead us to I got 80% chance of this or 20% chance of that and really making it deterministic. And in that we're constantly learning, innovating, what is the next thing that we can do better? And of course, in the middle of all that, we got hit with COVID right? Just like everybody else, new reality. And we took a step back and said what can we do to add to this conversation? Meaning our functional approach, our systems based approach, how do we look at Covid uniquely? And we actually landed in a really awesome place and started helping people and clinicians. And that's something we want to share with everybody today.

Awesome. So before we dive into that, I'd love for you to share with us what makes the DNA companies test different or unique from some of the other tests that are out there. Because I get people messaging me all the time saying I've got 23andMe, or I've got such and such test. And not to name drop or compare necessarily, but what makes you guys unique and different from the other tests that are out there.

There's the technical aspect of what do we actually test for. And then there's the, you know, practical aspect of how do you interpret the data, right? So the technical aspect is we actually test for different things, meaning that when you look at DNA and a lot of you heard this, there's SNPs, which is a basic, call it a spelling mistake, a variation, a gene. And most testing companies look for those and that's what's more studied and you see published reports about. But there's other variations that are, if not equally, but more important, often they don't occur in all genes, but in some cases a copy number variation. Forget about a spelling mistake. What if you don't even have the gene literally, you may be void of it or you may have multiple copies of it. And if it's a gene that informs something that's implicit in healthcare, imagine the implications, right? And then there's something in between called insertion or deletion, where if a SNP is a spelling mistake, an insertion or deletion is an entire paragraph is missing or added, right? So again, imagine the implication. So we test for more. Then we say that reporting back individual genes, this gene means this, this gene means this. That's not the way the body works, right? And that's why you only ever end up in probability based answer of here's your Alzheimer's genes, you're at 80%, here's your whatever genes, you're doing well, am I 80 or 20 and what do I do about it? So we say that we first study the biochemistry of the human and this is the technical aspect, second point where if we don't take the genes and layer them into the systems that the human body actually functions in, you can't be deterministic. So we did that, we built the pathway interpretation as opposed to the gene by gene siloed interpretation, right? So from there we're able to say that not this one gene means something, but the net result of your entire hormone system, for example, means that you have this body type, need to avoid these foods, need to exercise this way. This is how fat and muscle is going to happen for you. Cancer risk, et cetera, Right? So we test differently and for more we layer that pathway into interpretation. Sorry, we lay the interpretation into pathway models that are sort of mirroring biochemistry, cardiovascular, the brain, et cetera. And the third thing we do is we say in order to truly make DNA actionable, you can't stop at the DNA and you can't even stop at biochemistry. What is the person doing? If I decoded your instruction manual, here's who you are and Very different health implication if I take that manual to a beach in Aruba or downtown Manhattan. Right. You cannot expect the same health outcome, which means, what load am I putting on my genes, environment, nutrition, lifestyle? And if we don't understand how to interpret that within my own context, I can't be deterministic with you. Right. If I don't know how you exercise, how you sleep, what you eat, I can't really tell you. I can tell you here's your foundation, but I can't tell you today, this is where you're at because of what you're doing, or this is what you should not be doing, or this is what you should be doing, for example. So that's kind of the three pieces, technically. Test for more. Third is, we've layered the interpretation into pathways or systems that mirror the human. And then third is the personalized environment, nutrition, lifestyle. So that's deterministic and actionable for you as an individual.

Okay, amazing. And, you know, I wanted everyone to get a sense of that because that's probably the number one question that we get coming in is how is this test different? Or some people may have had testing done already, but we still get them to do this test because we're getting more data, more information, more actionability of that information. And I think a lot of times people may not recognize putting it all together. So you're not just looking at a word and to see if that word is spelled correctly or not. You're looking at the whole story so that you can actually paint a more accurate picture and give better advice and better counsel to somebody based on their. I think a lot. I think initially, like a lot of DNA tests was more for shock value than anything else and not. Didn't really give people actionable information or things that they can do. And that's what I love about this, is we've got different action steps that we can clue in on that are going to be specific to helping that person live, you know, a better life. And it's. We're not about. We're not trying to change your genes, but we're trying to optimally express them. And the easiest analogy I can think of is like, if you were born a Porsche, you would want to know that so you don't take your car off roading, and if you were born a pickup truck, you'd want to know that so that you can take your truck off roading and know where it's going to perform best, whereas where it may not perform best. And then you can decide right if you know you're driving in a Porsche, then you know that, hey, going off roading is probably not the best idea for me. So I would kind of look at it from that perspective.

One is great. Meaning that to understand your hard wiring, who are you as an individual, things that you may think are healthy in general could actually be deadly for you. For example, we have patients that our recommendation to reduce their cholesterol is to stop cardiovascular exercise. Right? Because when you do cardiovascular exercise, you dip into your mitochondria, you're burning your ATP, your power source, you're producing free radicals, chemicals, you burn any energy, electricity, gas, whatever, you're going to produce byproduct, smoke, Right. If you don't have the eugenic ability to detoxify that free radical to deal with the inflammation that's caused by that toxin free flowing in your blood and causing damage to the arterial walls, and you have weak vasculature, which is deterministic genetically, then you're going to get damage and scratches and abrasions to your arterial lining, which will then lead to your body deploying cholesterol to coat and protect and repair that inflammation. So the cholesterol is the thing that's actually keeping you alive. That's your body helping you, whereas, you know, at the symptom level. So again, that would be recommendation. You should be lifting weights. Your body was designed to lift weights, not run every day. Right. And you're slowly running yourself to the grave, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the things I learned about myself when I did the testing was that for me, weightlifting was a much better form of exercise than let's say cross country running or going for marathons, 5K, stuff like that. And I always felt that, I always felt much better lifting weights. Shorter intensity, you know, a shorter duration, higher intensity activities versus the longer duration, lower intensity. I just never felt good. I never, you know, I tried it. And for whatever reason, intuitively I just felt like that wasn't the right thing for my body. So when I saw that on my test, I was like, wow, this, this makes total sense.

Your body is trying to tell you and now you know.

Yeah, exactly. So I know that one of the reasons we wanted to talk today specifically is because you shared with me a couple of weeks ago a report that was based off of my genetic test that I'd already done with you guys. And that's one thing I love about genetic testing, I always tell my clients, is that it's the one test that actually increases in value over time, whereas a blood test, even a stool test, or, you know, an organic acids test, great tests, but their value diminishes the moment you get the test results, because things start to change, whereas the genetic report doesn't change. However, the information that we get from that, from those genes, because of all the research that's taking place, because of the work that the DNA company is doing, becomes extremely valuable. And we can see that in the report that you guys have generated that helps us in understanding our risk of developing infectious diseases. So I wanted to dive into that a little bit today and maybe we can discuss how you guys are utilizing that test and how others can utilize it as well.

So that's exactly what we did, is we looked at infectious disease in general. It's not just about COVID right? So the way infections happen, we reverse engineer genetically, you know, how the RNA is deposited into the cell, how you actually get sick, Right? So there's one thing for am I getting Covid or not? What risk am I of being like a super spreader or somebody who's just immune? Right. The second and more important piece we feel from a functional perspective is if, God forbid, I get hit with this thing and I get it, how sick am I going to get? Why are there people walking around with no symptoms, people walking around with, like a flu, basically, and people in the ICU on a respirator, right? So there's things that point to that and to be armed with the information on what system. So when somebody's in the hospital being treated for Covid, they're not being treated for Covid, they're being treated for respiratory inflammation, cardiac inflammation. Right? The comorbidities, the hypertension, the insulin resistance, these are the things that are putting people in the hospital. So we believe that if we're dealing with the worst bucket, the people are in the hospital. That's the people that need to help the most. The guy with the common flu or no symptoms doesn't need help, Right? Let's identify the genetic profile for whom is already at risk of respiratory inflammation, cardiac inflammation. So regardless of what the trigger is, the trigger happens to be Covid. This time could have been smoking, could have been something else. It just triggered the COVID is a very fast and powerful trigger that within a week you're in the hospital, Right? So we said, let's deal with what is that profile? How do we determine who's at risk for being in the icu? And if we know what system is failing, how do they support it? So that leading up To God forbid they ever get this thing. But if they do, they that that system has been boosted because they've dealt with the respiratory inflammation, cardiac inflammation risk with the right supplements, food, exercise, et cetera, prior to ever getting it so that they're ready for it. Right. And that's what we put together. It deals with risk for complications. It deals with the genetics of vitamin D, which is highly important because you could have plenty of vitamin D in your blood and none in your cell. Right. Because the genes that draw instruct vitamin D to be put into your blood is one thing. And the doctors will test you and tell you you're good. There's a whole other process of taking the vitamin D from your blood and putting it into the cell where you need it. Right. The docking station, the actual insertion, that's a whole other process. And you could be suboptimal there, especially if you came from, like us, slightly darker skin, some kind of sunny background. You needed to mitigate that. Right. So now you may not be best fitted for Toronto, Chicago, New York, wherever you are with no sunlight. Right. So then there's multiple other things we look at, but it's essentially determining risk for how sick you're going to get and. And what should you do about it if you're in the worst bucket?

Okay, awesome. So what does that report look like? I know, I got mine. Do you have one that you can share so that people who are tuning in can see what it looks like?

I'll just open it up. You see that? Yep. So right now it's just open to the. We're in the middle of the report here. This is the actual summary for risk for complications. The beginning of the report, I'll just flip back, talks about the actual risk in general. So risk for complications as an overall grade. That other summary we looked at gives you a little bit more detail on how that's broken down then risk for contraction. If you reverse engineer, how do you actually get the virus and everybody heard about the ACE gene, the conversations around that this is your risk for contraction and then your risk for a poor response, meaning one is complications, the hypertension, the other, health issues that may arise, and then your risk for, in general, cellular inflammation. Right. So overall, I got hit hard by this thing. Right, that's your poor response. Then we get into recommendations for food, recommendations for even mental health. There's a whole we can look at, okay, there's the virus and me feeling sick, respiratory, cardiac, but then there's the aftermath, or there's the people that aren't even sick that are having to deal with, I'm stuck at home, I'm spending too much time with certain people or I have anxiety, I don't get out enough. The whole mental health aspect which is hitting society is a big wave right now. We deal with that too. We understand how the brain is wired genetically and how you can as an individual better cope with these stresses. And you know, then we even recommend exercise based on genetics. Again, this is the clinical aspects we actually take. And this is the first genetic report that we've actually built where we take clinical data and our algorithm puts that together with the genetic data to come up with risk for complications and risk for the actual response. We give you some information on your actual risk. So we look over here, we get into the genetics if you want to sort of geek out and learn about it. And this piece here is really the page that people need to read and understand where, you know, for these various things, vitamin D activation and as I said, transport and uptake, three separate processes, right? It's not just how much vitamin D do I take? Do I need to take one vitamin D pill in the morning or five throughout the day because I just can't get enough out of that. I pee most of it out, right? Hypertension, insulin resistance, the comorbidities that we've seen people are dealing with, we look at those genetically and tell you a risk mitochondrial function. This is, you know, antioxidation and mitochondrial function. These are the areas where the clinical community isn't looking at cellular health, right? We're saying that if you understand your actual mitochondrial function and the thing that's being attacked the cell and does that cell need to be supported for better health of the cell itself, right? Your mitochondrial function, we dip into that. The actual genes that determine how robust you are here, methylation and anti inflamed inflammation. If the disease leads to or the disease you're dealing with is respiratory and cardiac inflammation. Well, how do you deal with inflammation in those two areas? Right? Different genes, different things we look at and this is why we broke out vascular, something separate, right? We then get into the actual genes, right? And if anybody wants to look at their actual results per gene, which also is implicit in other things beyond just Covid so you can learn about cardiovascular risk, inflammation risk that points to most chronic disease, right? So we dip into some of that thing, some of those things. Antioxidation. We just talked about how detox is so important in if you have free flowing free radicals in your blood, how many things can that point to how much inflammation can that cause in various areas. Brain fog, different issues that don't get treated as disease but actually are just antioxidation issues. Right, Right. Mitochondrial function and then the anti inflammatory response. We map that out, you know, show the genetics of it. Then we get into the mood and behavior. So I think Satchin, you and me are in a similar bucket where we have really fast. So our dopamine response. Yep. And this is implicit again in Covid. If you're the person that, like you and me, you know, binds very little dopamines we don't experience at a high level and we flush it out fast because our comp is fast. The experience for us of staying at home or it's very different than the person who has a very slow comp, who has a very high DRD2 that will feel everything. Right. The ADR2B, which is your noradrenaline response, that emotional reaction to things. If you're deleted here and you're. The emotional response, sorry, not deleted, but the opposite. If you're, if you emotional response is extreme and you're going to remember this and every time you hear Covid on the TV or the radio, it triggers that anxiety. These are the things we need to look at that are genetically indicated. Right?

Yeah. And I think an important thing about what's going on right now in the world is that it's affecting us in so many different ways. Right. There is a mental and emotional component to it. There's obviously a mitochondrial component to it. Right. There's an immune function component to it. Knowing how well we can assimilate and manufacture and then absorb vitamin D into our system. I mean, there's so many, so many things that this test clues us into so that we can look at this whole process from multiple dimensions. We're not just looking at one thing. We're kind of looking at the global effect that, you know, the pandemic is having on people from every single, you know, virtually every vantage point that I can imagine at least.

And there's the whole conversation about weight gain and, you know, being out of shape because of COVID and why is that happening to some people and not to others? You know, and the whole serotonin response. So there's a scientific fact, but then there's a genetic finding. The scientific fact is that people that are dysregulated for serotonin will lean on food as a coping mechanism. Right. That person who is suboptimal here, they may be the person that they don't understand why they're gaining weight. They don't even realize they're doing it. Right. They don't realize that every time they pass the kitchen they're snacking. And then because the anxiety, if you pair this with the noradrenaline response and you're weak there and you look at it again, pathway interpretation, not gene by gene, then yeah, I'm the person that isn't dealing with the emotional side of it well. And I'm dysregulated for serotonin, so I'm going to lean on food and that's why I'm gaining weight and I can't understand why. Right. So things like that. If you look at the, you know, functional BDNF response, I'm now working from home on my laptop all day, right. Exposed to blue light all day and I'm wondering why I can't sleep at night. Right. What should I be doing? How should my regimen chain, what supplements should I be taking to support my low bdnf? My brain derived neurotransmitter factor, which is directly correlated to blue light, prevents me from sleeping. Right. So we've dipped into everything we can that is sort of, you know, informing the things that in a practical level we're dealing with. We're not going to come up with a vaccine, we're not going to help people social distance, but we can deal with the practical stuff that people are dealing with day to day to day through the report. Yeah.

And then the cool thing about this report, I mean it's not specific to Covid, Right. It's more about the overall response that somebody would have to any infectious disease. But moreover, like the picture that you get of yourself allows you to make so many better decisions. It allows even the clinician, if you're a patient watching this, then you know, your clinician can order this test from the DNA company. If it's a client of ours that's watching this, we're always happy to order the test for you because of the valuable information that you can, you know, basically extract from the test about your day to day, even if there wasn't a pandemic going on. The information here is extremely valuable because it allows you to make better choices. You know, what supplements can be used to optimize, what nutritional practices can be used to optimize you, what exercise principles, what type of light exposure, what are the behaviors and what are the triggers that you need to be mindful of. And in understanding yourself a little bit better, you can put yourself in better Environments as well. Right. So if somebody, for example, right now, if they have a very slow metabolism of noradrenaline, then they're going to be more inclined to create an emotional imprint from everything that's going on. So watching the news right before you go to bed is probably not a good idea, or watching the news at all is probably not a good idea. Because I feel like some of these systems prey on people who have those type of genetic variants. You know, someone like you and me, we could watch the news and it just kind of like water off a duck's back. It doesn't really stick with us emotionally, but other people can watch it and they're going, they're having a completely different biochemical experience inside their body. And you know, this also, you know, allows me personally to be a little bit more empathetic because when I see people freaking out, I'm like, you know what? I always get curious. It's easy to judge, but the next evolution of judgment is curiosity. So I get curious. I'm like, well, I wonder what this person's genes would say because of the way they're responding to the current situation. And I'm always inclined to figure out how I can help them. So a free little tidbit for people. Vitamin C and magnesium are very important in helping break down adrenaline and noradrenaline. And so we see that we know how important vitamin C is for the immune system and so many other things like collagen development. But it's also important in helping us de stress. And magnesium is what we kind of jokingly call the cure for ugly. It fixes everything and has 300 different functions in our body. And interestingly enough, this is side note from genetics, but I think important for this conversation is one of the ways that we deplete magnesium is by the way, we breathe. So people who are shallow breathers actually will deplete more magnesium and phosphorus from their body than people who are breathing normally or have a better awareness of their breath. So, you know, most people when they're under stress that the stress that we're experiencing right now are going to be shallow breathers. They're going to further deplete their magnesium, which is going to make them further more susceptible if they have this genetic variation to having stronger emotional imprinting. So it's this kind of downward spiral. And once you know this about yourself, once you have better self awareness through the genetic testing, through your breath, through your nutrition, through your movement, through your engagement with, you know, other people and nature and all, and all Those things, you can be, you know, a much better steward of your own health. And, you know, sometimes people, when they, when they think of genetic testing, they might feel like, you know, this is disempowering. You know, what would you say to someone who might say that?

I think that used to be the case because. And it still is the case in the most part for genetic tests, because you're being given a report that's prescriptive saying of saying you. Saying you have. And what do I do about it? Right. So that's been the gap where. I don't want to know.

Right.

I don't Want to know. 80% chance of Alzheimer's. I don't want to know. Because the anxiety of just knowing. Right. The point is we curate the right genes that are actionable, meaning we only talk about stuff where we can actually tell you what to do about it. There's nowhere in your report, our reports, where you'll see you got a 20% chance of Alzheimer's. Good luck. It says based on our pathway interpretation, this diet, this exercise, this could lead to certain things. That's where there's a big gap between the recreational reports that are out there that give you a probability or a functional report that gives you like your personal roadmap. Right. And we don't speak of anything unless we also know what to do about it.

I love that. Yeah. So what would you say to somebody who's already had the testing done? How would they go about getting the testing? And I know you also wanted to share how people who haven't had any of the testing done can get this done and get the report. So let's talk about that.

Sure. So, yeah, a lot of your audience has been through the testing. Right. We did add a number of genes, I think five to seven genes in order to produce this report that we didn't use to test for in terms of mitochondrial function. A couple other areas. So we have to rerun the sample. And what we do in that case is it's a highly discounted price from what they would have paid for the full report because we're just rerunning the sample, producing the report. So you know anyone that's in a client, contact us how you normally would, you know, email, call, whatever, go directly to the website and we will take care of running your report. Again, by running those new genes, you do also have to provide some healthcare data, if you remember in the earlier section of the report, BMI type stuff. Right. So there's a few items there to collect for Someone who's new to the ecosystem, you know, it hasn't been part of what we do. There's two ways we can do this. If you have an existing 23andMe report or an ancestry report, this is the first time we've actually built out the ability for you to upload that. Now caveat being that again they don't test for the copy number variations in indels. So you won't get all of the data, you'll get some of it. It's just a lower cost. If you want to test this out and run your 23 me, go ahead. It's a much cheaper way to get in. You do that and, and if you want the rest of the results, you just pay the difference for our test. And for those who just want to go straight to it, just go straight to it. Right to the website. It's mydnacompany.com so you go to mydnacompany.com and the COVID report is there. There's a chat bot there. Any questions about, you know, uploading your 23andMe or the process, whatever were there email are always on point. So just get out, reach out to us and it's, it's there right there on the website. MyDNA company.com.

Okay, awesome. And then just so people listening to this know, are you a direct to consumer company or do people have to go through a practitioner to get the testing done?

So it's both. We do recommend going through a practitioner. Right. And the reason why, even though the reports are designed for you to digest. So for example, when we just looked at this report, we looked at BDNF and said, well, maybe that's why somebody can't sleep at night. That level of interpretation and the experience of the clinician, we would highly advise you go through your clinician. Right. If you call your clinician and they don't work with us yet, put us in touch with them, we'll set them up. But in this world, such and living proof world, most people we work with already. Right. So yes, you can go to the website and buy. But highly recommended you go through your clinician.

Okay, awesome. So any, anything you want to share in addition to what you've already shared today?

Kashif, I would say just, you know, there's a lot of stuff that. So because this is so new, right. We're speaking specifically about COVID There's a lot of stuff that requires clinical research. Right. And the, the authorities that we rely on, rightfully so, will not provide guidance until that Clinical research is done because you have to make sure it's safe. Right. That being said, there's certain things that we know that don't require that level of scrutiny. Right. Simple thing like vitamin D. It's a known fact. So all I would say is while we're waiting for big answers, keep listening and learning. Keep tuning into what Sachin is saying and the functional medicine community, people are testing things along the way that are working really well that you won't hear of from the authorities because they're supplement based, food based on and they actually don't require clinical research. Right. But they also don't have the clinical research. You can't make certain claims about them and make them clinical tools. So and this is what led us to where we're at is there was things that we knew were actionable that we could do today that could truly help people and we just put it together in the form report. So all I would say is just keep learning and listening, dive in, follow whoever you follow and do the things they're recommending because these things are. You're not going to get a report on vitamin D curing Covid, but you'll for sure know that the people that were on vitamin D versus the ones that weren't had a much better time. Right. So keep learning and listening is what I would say.

Amazing. Well, thank you my friend. I'll be sure to share the links so people can get back to the DNA company, either upgrade their existing reports, upload their 23andMe or ancestry reports or you know, if you're working with a clinician, get them to set up an account with the DNA company so that they can do the interpretation for you. But I also know that you guys can do that as well. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for all the amazing work you guys do and keep up the great work. I'm excited. I know my wife and my son's reports are going to be coming up here in the next few days. So I'm excited to see what they have to say. And I was so grateful that I got to take a look at my report and it helped me understand the areas that I need to be paying closer attention to. And you know, it helped me double down on my own personal practices knowing that there's opportunities for me to do better. You know, I can't change my genes, but I can certainly change my behaviors.

Right? Exactly.

All right, thank you my friend.

Thank you, Sachin.