You're Not Stressed… Your Nervous System Just Forgot How to Rest (The Gratitude Fix)

Welcome, Natalie. It's so great to have you here today. I'm excited for our conversation. Uh, today we're gonna be talking about something that's near and dear to you, which is gratitude. And we're gonna be talking about nervous systems, which I know are very important to all of us and especially yourself. And I am excited because we get to unpack your journey and your story into who you are today as well. Uh, You know, certainly you've been a wonderful addition to our team at the Precision Wellness Practice. You've been an amazing mentor to so many practitioners, and I'm excited to, to kind of unpack how, how it all came to be and also have people walk away with some valuable insights on how they can improve the state of their nervous systems and how they can use gratitude as a, as a way to get there. So thank you. Thanks for being here.

Thank you, Sasha. Thanks for having me. And I think it's a great opportunity to look back of where we all started, and we really had no idea where we would end up, and the important pieces that, uh, that were along the way, and following, following the guidance and doing the work as they say. And with using gratitude as a pivotal practice to get clear and to know what's the next right step for you, I think they'll be helpful for everyone.

Yeah, you know, you're, you're an elite level athlete and, you know, I think once an athlete, always an athlete because it carries over in the way you think. And I know that, you know, athletes visualize and there's a lot of research behind visualization and using their creativity as a force for good. I feel like gratitude is somewhat in the same vein there. So I'm curious how much you use visualization as an athlete.

As an athlete, I probably didn't use it as much as I should have, but I think, I think also because that's been the default, we kind of lose sight of how much we're actually doing it. And so the shift to gratitude, when we learn more about the, the science of how powerful it is when athletes are doing the visualization. Like, there's studies showing that basketball players, when they're taking shots, the ones who simply visualize shooting and the ball going in, so finishing, seeing the, the task to completion, they had in a game situation, they had the same output as the people who actually physically took the shots. And I think a way that is powerful is if they're visualizing it, they're usually not visualizing themselves missing it. We're in the real practice situation. Even if they're hitting 8 out of 10, 9 out of 10, they're still seeing the ones that don't get in. And one thing we can talk about today is like the negativity bias we have. So it's easy to see as soon as there's a flaw, flaw, as soon as we're not perfect, which is never, we can start to overanalyze and we can start to become really, really critical upon ourselves. So gratitude is a great way to shift of What is here now working now versus focusing on what sucks, what's stressful, or what isn't working.

Thank you. You know, you've, you're, I guess, went through a lot of schooling and, you know, became a pharmacist from one of the top schools in the world, the University of Toronto. And then you you know, started working in your community. You evolved into a, you know, functional medicine practitioner, coach, and mentor. And all of that experience and education and training has brought you to what, what I would consider a very simple, profoundly simple concept, which is gratitude being such a force for good. Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about your journey and how you ended up here.

A lot of that came into spiritual work, and I encountered a teacher back in about 2013 who is a student of Dr. David Hawkins. So I dove into Dr. David Hawkins' works, most notably, uh, the books Letting Go, uh, and Healing Your Recovery, the ones I read early on. And through that work, I got exposed to the Map of Consciousness, and it really explained why people are, why they do the things they do, and where they are in their life. And there's no judgment for it. Like, everything's happening perfectly for a reason. So once you started having that understanding, you just have great compassion for everyone. But then the other flip side of that work is how do we progress? How do we grow? How do we move from living in survival states to living with reason and integrity, to the ultimate juicy states of love, peace, and joy. So how do we get there? And without— in the spiritual world, a lot of— there's a lot of very like woo-woo, obviously. Um, and so I found gratitude to become a great bridge of, all right, we're trained in the science, science, in the science, you know. I had undergrad in life science, pharmacy degree, very scientifically minded. And then we have the spiritual. So, but how do we like bridge the bridge for a practice that becomes accessible to most people? So gratitude became that gateway for me that I saw people understood. Like they could rationalize, oh yeah, that seems like a good thing to do. A gratitude practice. I'm not suggesting everyone, hey, you need to go to like a 10-day silent retreat. That's a big leap for people. Even praying or meditating is a big leap for people. But most people were very open and welcoming to the gratitude. And we know by Hawkins' work, and most spiritual works, is if you have that thread of hope, and if you're willing to take that small step, have faith in the process, do the work, be consistent, and you don't know where you're going, but I promise it's going to be worth it. So gratitude became that bridge of the tangible thing that's accessible to everyone, and it will help them on their journey.

Yeah, we all have, you know, so many things to be grateful for, big and small. And, you know, I'm, I'm big on breathing, you're big on gratitude. I'm grateful for every breath. That's, you know, one way to also look at how we work so well together. And so anytime something is a gateway to the nervous system, I get curious. So maybe you can explain, uh, A, uh, why that's important and perhaps B, uh, how can that, how, how can that information or how maybe we suggest that information change the way people look at, uh, something as simple as gratitude. So yeah. So first, you know, walk us through why gratitude and the nervous system are so interconnected.

So why the nervous system is important is we have— and I know you're the, you're an expert explainer at this, but for the people listening, we have our rest and digest and we have fight or flight. And fight or flight is survival, and that's where we're stressed. And most of us are in chronic stress, and it's important that we have that. That's our survival paradigm. That's what's kept us alive. But that's not where all the juicy, amazing things in life are. The juicy, amazing things that we all want— more love, more abundance, more joy— that's all in on the parasympathetic side. And when we start to realize, huh, I've kind of been stuck in this one mode, almost numb to joy, numb to creativity, because we're working, we have families, we have trauma, we have things to do. We haven't had time. You know, for me, up to, up to 40 years, like I never had time to like sit and stop and like realize that what stillness was like in the body, what that creativity was like. So that's the nervous system. So obviously the stress state, we don't want to be living there. Yes, we go there for, for time and purposes to keep us alive at appropriate times, but we really want to spend more time in that other parasympathetic state. And when we're reverting back to Hawkins' Map of Consciousness, I was giving a workshop a couple of years ago and I saw in a flash how they, how they, how they correlated. So I've been speaking on the nervous system for years, I've been studying the Map of Consciousness for years, for years, and Hawkins has it right on the Map of Consciousness. That's the survival paradigm. I'm like, Oh, that's, that's when we're stressed. That's when we're in chronic stress. And this is where we're doing what we need to do to get through life. And then as we move up the map of consciousness to reason and integrity, we can start to use our more rational thinking. And this is where the great, you know, inventions and advancements in our life have become. And ultimately, if we can get— I believe, I believe that a state of being unconditional loving is available to everyone. It might be fleeting, but even for a moment, I believe everyone can have a state of unconditional love. Well, how do we go— how do we get there? How do we get from pride and desire, anger, frustration, guilt, shame, which a lot of people we work to come in at having those moments— we've all had those moments. So how do we go from there to unconditional love? That's a big jump. And gratitude is the— gratitude becomes the way, right? So gratitude, again, for me is— I tell people it's like gratitude, then forgiveness, then you can reach those states of love. But again, it starts with gratitude. And then when you experience that unconditional love, especially for yourself, then there's no going back.

Yeah, it's so much easier to forgive when we've first kind of forgiven ourselves. And gratitude is a reminder of how far we've come. You know, Dan Sullivan talks about the gap and the gain. And so many people, not just entrepreneurs, but just the average person, we all have goals and desires and we feel like we're never obtaining them because the horizon keeps moving away from us. But when we use gratitude to reflect what we already have and also what we're calling for in the future, it's pretty amazing how fast things can change when we change what our awareness is on. Uh, and you still have to do work, right? It, uh, and it might mean you have to do more work than you're doing now, but it can certainly, you know, sweeten the path too. Right. You know, we're going to have to walk into, walk through thorns sometimes to get to where we want to go. And gratitude allows us to, you know, reflect on how far we've come, but also puts us in the right state to keep moving forward.

Yeah. I find it. And that's for me, one of the definitions of gratitude is being in that present moment, whereas we're career-driven people, whether you're an entrepreneur or not. If anyone who's gone through university, they've always been very forward-thinking, right? They've mapped out what courses they had to take in high school, what courses they had to take, what would their career choices were going to be. If you're planning to buy a house, like, so we're— many of us are always very forward-thinking. And, you know, if you're looking to afford a lot, a lot of times then we get, get stuck in anxiety versus gratitude really can pull you to the present moment. And you can be, as you mentioned, alluded to, yes, you can have be grateful for those moments that have not yet happened. I think that's part of the visualization or the manifestation of that's all possible. So if we take a moment and create and connect with that love now for the event that is yet to come, how much sweeter is that going to be when you realize— this is like, this is like the juicy stuff— was like when you realize, oh my gosh, like this is a moment like I've been thinking about, this is a moment that I've visualized about whether it's when creating your vision board or in meditation or in journaling, when you have the most like, oh my gosh, it's here now. And so then you can really be grateful for that moment when it's actually arrived.

Yeah, it's very fascinating to look at it that way. And, and it's almost like déjà vu, right? You're— you've created it first in your mind, and then it's presenting itself to you in reality. And of course, you have to be present because what we visualize is a moment, right? And so that moment is fleeting. And so presence is very crucial. And as you were sharing that, it made me think about, you know, breathing practices and gratitude practices. Many people think that they have to have like a 5 or 10-minute breathwork routine that they do every single morning and then not think about how they breathe the rest of the day. Right. And so I think maybe people have the same attitude towards something like gratitude where it's like, oh, I've gotta do it in the morning or in the evening. And if I didn't write it down or I didn't, you know, document it, I'm not doing it. And I know you have a different approach as to like, there's thousands of opportunities in a day. To be grateful. So maybe walk us through that. What, what, what your philosophy is on gratitude. Is it, you know, is this something that you do just in the morning or is this something you carry throughout with you throughout the day? And if so, how do you incorporate it into your day?

Well, there's two questions there. So one is if someone's starting, it's like you pick the thing that makes sense to you that you're like, okay, I think I can do this. Whatever that is— morning, night, a grace before a meal. But for me, it's really, it's all through, all throughout the day. Um, before I even— as soon as I'm like, I notice I'm awake and my eyes aren't even open, I usually— thank you usually comes through my mind first thing, right? And that's— that thought always wasn't there. It's the, it's the repetition. And one of the things I do for first thing in the morning before I open my eyes usually, um, is, is say a forgiveness prayer. And there's, there's, there's a thank you in that as well, right? So it's like I've consciously chosen to start my day with that. And then I have my gratitude journal. So I like bookending the day with a gratitude practice. So again, something formal, a physical reminder. So writing the things I'm grateful for first thing in the morning, and then at the before bed, what are the great things that happened today? Choosing what do I wanna think on before I go to bed? So I think that's a great way to intentionally start your day. This is what I want to be thinking of. This is what I wanna look forward to. And at the end of the day, hey, what were the cool things that happened today? That's fun. But in the moment, right? So in the moment before a meal, like even if you don't say a prayer aloud, like Can you look at your meal and be grateful for it? Can you look at your meal— and this is the work we do with our metabolic clients, this is something I've taught for years— is you'll be satiated, you'll be satisfied if you look at your meal and be like, "Wow, this is everything I need. Look at what's on my food. Look at the colors. I have everything I need right now." And even that's a moment of gratitude, and it changes how you enjoy that meal, how you consume that meal. And then how you think about and look at food throughout your day. So I think that's a big miss for a lot of people in our current society is saying a grace before a meal. Like, I remember my great-grandparents, even like we used to work in the orchard with them and even before coffee break, like my grandpa would say a little blessing and I don't know where that gets lost, but that doesn't happen. Some places, yes. Some places, no. So getting back to the basics, like saying grace and having a moment of appreciation before your meal. And then looking, it's not even looking, it's just noticing the opportunities to say thank you to someone. Thank you for opening the door for me going into the store. Thank you to the cashier who lined things up nicely on the belt. Thank you for, oh, they did that, you know, they caught something. They were maybe scanning something, saw a price. Like there's so many opportunities to thank someone that we don't do that. In real time. And I found personally it's usually because of fear of mentioning, like, maybe I didn't know how to express it properly. But since I've really, really committed to a gratitude practice, I can say those— I can acknowledge the appreciation in the moment with my children, for example, a lot better. And I think that's the trickle-down effect, that really why I do the work is I know that how I'm showing up, how I'm commuting, how my nervous system is regulated, it affects them.

Yeah. You know, I love what you shared about writing things down. I'm a big proponent. I've, you know, I've got my Your Gratitude Journal here and I'm a big proponent of writing things down. I've got my journal here in front of me. There's something magical that happens when we write things down. And so I love having that, as you described it, as a bookend to start your day and to end your day. It's a great thing to have a physical reminder for us to do that. Even if we just keep our journal open on our desk, right? To, to ready to write or enter the information and our gratitude and immediately upon sitting down even, right? Like just baking it into our day. And one of the things that I found on my own gratitude journey, 'cause it is a journey, right? It is easy for us to, I was this morning, I was having AI do something for me and I was complaining about how long it was taking and I caught myself. I'm like, oh my God, what it's doing for me right now is gonna probably save me an hour to 2 hours. And I'm so impatient that it's taking more than 30 seconds. It's almost like, remember when we would complain about slow internet?

Yeah.

I feel like that's what it is now for, you know, when you want an immediate response. And so I feel like I'm still catching myself. Okay. And, you know, having that awareness, I think is the first step in steering our thoughts and re-steering our thoughts if we find them moving in the wrong direction. Do you have any best practices for that? Like, you know, not just moving more towards gratitude, but, you know, kind of paying attention to our thinking and tweaking it and adjusting it.

Well, first in setting your environment, right? So I think one of the beauties of having a journal, if you leave it on your bedside table or wherever you have your morning cup of coffee after your water, of course, because when you're starting something new, you're going to forget. Like, if you don't have that physical reminder, if you don't have an alarm on your phone, you're going to forget it. So that's one of the reasons why it's great to have something physical like that. And if you want more gratitude, if you want more love in your life, you know, do you have pictures of people who make you smile? Your family members? Do you have pictures of them nearby in your workspace, right? Like a trigger. Again, my first ball of this actually came from you, I can't even tell you how many years ago, but I keep a bottle of this on my desk. Why? As a reminder of the state I want to be in before, you know, and I usually give a spritz of this multiple times a day, right? So whatever that is for you of like, okay, what's the state I want to be in? So once you've been asking yourself the question and the question is like, do you want to be angry and miserable all day? Or like, what do you want to feel like? What do you want to feel that day? So what is in your environment to have that, to support that and to give that reminder. 'Cause if that spray bottle of essential oil spray wasn't there, even if it was something a little further away, would I get up and go get it to spray it? Probably not, but it's right there. And then the thinking. So I think one being open and so it's, it's really about developing an awareness and being okay and becoming aware of our thoughts. And that's where, um, if we kind of slow down and realize what we're actually thinking, um, probably for most of us before we started doing the work, or even in the moment, even still, it's just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm thinking that, I can't believe I'm saying that to myself. So our subconscious, our internal dialogue is usually really, really harsh and really, really critical. So it's noticing, like, what are we complaining about? Or like, what are we stressing about? Like, are we annoyed that it takes too long for the hot water to get to the shower? Like, we have plumbing, we have clean water, turn on the tap, I have hot water. Okay, I have to wait 20 seconds for the water to warm up. Yeah, but we could be upset and angry at that, Or, oh my gosh, look at them, look at the mirror skull. So it's being open to be curious, to like analyze and become aware of our thoughts without judgment, because they've been there. Anyone takes away from this conversation is like, they've been there up to this point for your survival. So again, if you look at it from compassion and awareness, and with having gratitude that they've kept you alive at this point,, but I can choose to have a different thought. I can choose to look at things differently now. Yeah.

You know, our mutual friend Michael Bernoff says that it's, it's not harder than it's, it's not hard. It's harder than you'd like it to be. Right. And sometimes things aren't taking long. They're just taking longer than you'd like them to take. And, and, you know, are the things that trigger us can be a great teacher for us. They can give us perspective as to, okay, why is there so much charge with this topic? Like, why am I letting it create so much polarity for me? Because the more charged we get about something, it takes energy to create the response or the reaction, and then it takes energy to come back to balance again. So we're wasting all this energy throughout the day creating such an emotional charge on things that probably don't matter. And if we, you know, if we give up that much control of our biology to something that doesn't matter, it prevents us from achieving the things that do. And so a really great place for a lot of people to start who are listening to this is probably just metathinking, right? Like paying attention to your thinking, paying attention the language you're having. And then can we shift that more towards compassion? You know, many people speak to themselves in a way that they would never let someone else speak to them. And I invite people to— I've got two rocking chairs or swivel chairs right next to each other. And sometimes I'll sit in one and I'll imagine the person that's having the conversation with me in my head. Sitting on the swivel chair next to me. And so I'm almost having like this kind of double body experience with that person. And I asked myself, is this somebody that I actually want to hang out with? Is this somebody I'd be friends with? Or am I waiting for this person to like get up and leave so I can, you know, have a better day, you know, so to speak. So I feel like sometimes we need to really pay close attention to how we're thinking and then steer the conversation in our head towards forgiveness and towards gratitude. But really it starts with gratitude and then that forgiveness. And, you know, when you brought up David Hawkins, one of the things that came up for me was a recent client of mine who got a puppy and her, all her biomarkers went up through the roof, her energy, all the things, her excitement for life, her zest. You could just see it in her face. All of those things went up significantly. And I, from my understanding, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, but Hawkins would actually, or Hawkins rather would rather, would encourage every one of his clients get a dog.

Yeah.

Is that right?

Well, a dog with a wagging tail calibrates at 540, which is unconditional love.

Okay.

Right. The dog, like, and it's, it's, it's funny, like if you have a puppy, you don't like, okay, if they poop on the floor, they're, they're house training. You might get mad in a minute, but like if your spouse did that, it would be the end of the world. But if the puppy did it, okay, we clean it up and you try again. So yeah, so, uh, dogs waving, dog wagging tail, 540 unconditional love. So again, oxytocin, HRV raising, amazing. So funny story, I don't know if you know this or not. In 2021, I got my cat because I was just like, I was like, all right, I was done with dating for a while. I'm just getting a cat, right? And because I know Hawkins work that a cat's purr is healing the same way, right? So having the cat was that reminder, okay, here's something that I am choosing to love. And so when you know, it kind of seems funny, but we need to like remind ourselves. And if you know the benefit of it and you can remind yourself while you're doing it, right, rather than mindlessly petting the cat while she's on my lap while I'm reading a book before bed, knowing, oh my gosh, this is great for my nervous system, this is so healing, like, oh, I can flood my body with oxytocin, I can relax my nervous system and go to sleep with this little furry fuzzy fuzzy companion. Like, those are the things that might seem silly if people knew what my internal self-talk was in that moment. But there's a lot of other things that I choose not to think about that other people are going through their mind or having those conversations before they go to bed. Hmm.

You know, we almost got a puppy, except Deepa's nervous system was totally frazzled with the idea of it, even though we said yes and put our deposit down. And now it's got me wondering what, what it could, you know, be interesting to have that data, uh, more so than the data, the experience of that unconditional love. Because I feel like that's how babies are, right? When you, when you hold a child, like, you don't feel any judgments being passed. You can kind of almost like let go and be yourself or be a child, um, and they're always great to snuggle with, right? You get that oxytocin. So I love spending time with my nephew now because he's at a stage where I can still hold him and snuggle with him. And I can't do that with Devin anymore, or at least he won't let me. It's so potent yet so overlooked. So I feel like something worth exploring for people. I know volunteerism is a big part of your life as well. So I'm curious if you have any information about the benefits of volunteering. On HRV and nervous system health?

Well, the science shows that if you do, so another way to express gratitude or thankfulness is random acts of kindness.

Hmm.

And the science shows that the person who does, in this example, is a random act of kindness. They do a random act of kindness. They benefit more than the person who received it. And a couple years ago, my son started doing vol— uh, some volunteer work for, because in, in Ontario, in high school, they have to do volunteer hours. So the first day I went with them, and I felt the flood of the positive effect that, that 2 hours had. And it was all kinds of stuff, right? It was pride for my son for the things he was doing, but it was being actively involved in something and meeting new people and seeing the great work they were doing. And I quickly realized that my 2 hours on a Sunday afternoon, like, I'm like, that was like one of the highlights of my week, of the people I was spending time with and the conversations we were having. And it was putting, you know, we can make up excuses where it's just like, oh, I'm too busy to do that. I got all these things to do on a Sunday. But I realized how I felt, one, looking forward to it, physically actually doing it. And then afterwards, I'd be like, I have to do this. Like, this is the right environment for me to be in. So what started as, you know, voluntold hours for a high school kid has become really an amazing thing that we're, you know, 2 and a half years later, later, um, you know, again, to have an 18, almost 19-year-old that you're doing something productive with every week. Um, as a mother, those moments are— we realize those moments are fleeting, so that obviously keeps me going back. But yeah, just— and that's become part of what I do, right? That's become part of my service work in, in the, in the greater world.

And of course, those people, I'm sure, are very grateful. So it creates this kind of continued ripple effect. You know, it's never been easier than today to be the nicest person somebody's met, at least that day, right? And if you're really struggling with it, What if you could be the nicest person that person has met this hour, right? You can set a pretty low standard for ourselves, but more of that is needed, you know, and, and I think it starts with, of course, us doing that internal work and having a, you know, a dedication to this because it's habit change for some people. And the tools that they need are, you know, very important. And one of them is something you've created, which is this daily gratitude journal. Tell us about how that came to be, because that's not a small task.

It's, it's not a small task. So it really came to be when I started working with functional medicine clients and I gave them, I would give them a gratitude journal when they started working with me. And I started to notice the difference, like the ones who they were doing the journal, like they would tell me they were doing it, or I maybe would bring it up in a follow-up appointment with someone like, oh, you're doing the journal? No, it was just like another thing to do. And they didn't, you know, maybe I couldn't explain it as well back then what the connection was. And so I saw, I saw a marked difference. And again, not just the measured outcome, maybe they were coming to me to work with, but, you know, their attitude, how they thought about life's ups and downs and realizing we're going to have struggles, we're going to have things that don't work out. But I could see how it was changing their perception on everything, and they just seemed more grateful and going through the process. So one day, as I was ordering these, the journals, I was just like, I should make my own, right? That little subtle thing. I should make my own. And I don't remember when I first had that thought. And then I started to, like, over the years I've done many different gratitude journals. And I think one of the first formal ones, I think, was your gift to me as well. Funny how that is. We can see how it's coming full circle now. Because maybe I'll back up one step is like how I started a gratitude practice. So at the time, probably early 2013, 2012-ish, I was listening to a lot of Zig Ziglar and he was talking about gratitude practice and I was not one to journal, but he had the recommendation of to write 10 things you were grateful for on a little recipe card and then read that every morning and read it again, read it at least twice a day. So I did that. I'm like, okay, I can do that. So I wrote the 10 things I was grateful for and I'd read it first thing in the morning and I would read it first thing at night. So that's where it started and that created the window and it created some awarenesses. And then a gratitude journal comes into your life, you're like, okay, I can do this. I can do this morning and night gratitude journal. So over the years, I've done many different journals, try lots of different ones out. But there were certain things I wanted to include in my daily practice and to craft and curate for other people. And one of them also being specific quotes, right? So specific very conscious, very aware where quotes to go with it as well. So probably from the first idea, it took years. And then when I actually was like, okay, I'm actually going to do this, I'm going to actually do this journal, right? So the process of from when I started doing that, started gathering the quotes, started lining out how I wanted this to be morning, night, it kind of sat in my computer for about 2 years. Before a spurt of energy and a divine inspiration. Then I was able to get it done in a couple of days. So it went from, you know, a 2-year process to actually get it done and get it published.

What does that feel like to hold it for the first time? Oh, I cried.

I cried because, like, you're designing it on, you know, you're designing on a computer. And so you don't really know what it's, what it's actually going to look like. And so, yeah, the reel is on my Facebook. I've pinned it of like the real reaction. And yeah, I totally cried. I was like, I had no idea. It's not really like I think it looks really great, but it was more than that. It was just like all of that, like, oh my goodness, like really like over a decade of practice, like seeing that come into something physical. It's like, wow. Like again, from idea to actual, like physical, something I can hold in my hand. Like it was really powerful.

It's, uh, it's definitely very beautiful. And it's one of those, it's one of those things that you're just gonna keep, you know, and continue to, to fill out and, and collect over a lifetime. Some of those I've never, I've never discarded any of my gratitude journals. I've always kept them. Because there's so— there, it's just, uh, there's a lot of good energy in there, right? Good vibes, uh, in, in our gratitude journals. What are some of the ways that people can learn more about you, more about your work? Where can we send them, uh, to grab their Daily Gratitude Journal? And where can people follow you?

The Daily Gratitude Journal is available on Amazon, so any country that has Amazon, it's available there. Um, Sachin's got the beautiful hardcover. Um, I've got a paperback sitting here on my desk, so paperback and hardcover. And the best place to follow me is on Facebook. That's where I'm most active and sharing gratitude, among other things.

Amazing. You, you're such a wonderful person to follow. Lots of great tips, lots of great insights. Wonderful content that you put together, and it's wonderful to work with you. And I, I know people kind of see the front-facing side. I want people to know that with Nathalie is what you see is what you get. She's this way through and through. So thank you for all the work that you do, helping practitioners, and then serving your community as a volunteer. Helping us help more practitioners and, you know, bringing this beautiful gift to the world of gratitude. Certainly something the world needs more of.

Amazing. Thank you.

My pleasure. Have a wonderful rest of your day. And to all of you listening, this is your chance. Put some gratitude into your life. Add a formal practice. Carry it with you throughout the day. It's one of those gifts that just keeps on giving. And I hope you take us up on putting this into your daily life and encouraging others around you to do the same. Talk to you soon. Bye for now.