The Enneagram, AI, and the Leadership Skill Technology Can’t Replace with Tracy O'Malley

Where are you kind of seeing things that online are blaringly outsourced that shouldn't be?

90% of it. You know when a robot wrote something and you actually lose credibility and trust the more that you let it do that for you. Outsourcing your voice, I think, is the biggest disservice you're doing to your spirit, to your soul, to your business in the long game. You might get some traction now. You might feel good because you're putting out content. But nobody fucking cares because they know it's not you.

Tracy, welcome to the podcast.

Honored to be on again. I know. Like, I think probably 2018, so 8 years.

Oh my God. Yeah, we should have really done some check-ins.

It's all good.

And do some yearly check-ins. Yeah, people, people need, people need to hear from Tracy.

Thank you.

Truly. So something about you that's so fun to watch now that I'm in the Elite Mastermind, and you know, you've been in my life for years. Yeah, we share common roots. Yes, from where we're from. Yeah, which I think is such a bonding thing.

There's nothing like a Midwest girl.

There's nothing like a Midwest girl. What do you think are some of the things, some of the traits about when you meet other Midwest people that immediately you're like, okay, here's where I can connect?

Honestly, they just feel like home.

Mm-hmm.

And not the dysfunctional home that I grew up in, but you know, there's just like this groundedness.

Mm-hmm.

And just like grittiness to a Midwest girl.

Mm-hmm.

Especially ones that left it, you know what I mean? Because totally we're Midwest girls that certainly don't look like Midwest girls.

No, but we can, like, if someone needed some help pushing a car, you and I would be the first to pop out and it would be fun without making a competition. And we'd be like, let's push this bitch as far as we can.

I mean, I get under and change, you know, pull the spare tire out from under. I just, I just, it just feels like home.

We literally would. It's, it's the best. And we've gotten to go to Packer games together and spend some time with our different families. And I literally just have loved that. It's such a common ground for all that we get to do in the world. And I also think it's probably served you really well in who you get to work with.

Yeah.

Too, cuz you work with some really big, incredible people.

Yeah.

And that probably helps really ground them right in.

You know what? I, I think the, the Midwest thing that was not healthy, but also, yeah, we could go off on this too. Yeah. Part of the, part of like why I hold my work so sacred. It's like what happens in our house stays in our house, which super dysfunctional as a kid.

Yeah.

But I, I carry that in the most beautiful, profound discreet way with my work that I do, you know, with high-level founders and CEOs telling me their deepest, darkest fears and secrets. Like that discretion, like what happens in the house of Tracy stays in the house of Tracy. And I'm that safe place to fall, you know, and I take that very, very seriously. And that did come from my dysfunctional roots.

You know, you're like, no, really, I'm a vault.

But I'm a firm believer, like, I don't believe everything happens for a reason. Mm. Because some heinous shit happens. But I am a firm believer that everything that does happen can be used for something beautiful.

Mm. I kind of recently switched that train of thought because for a while that helped empower me. I was like, no, it all happened so I could be here. And then I'm like, no, really crappy stuff happens to really good people.

Free will takes over some of the shit. Yeah, that wasn't supposed to happen.

Totally.

We can use it for something good eventually.

Yeah. So you've, you know, I've gotten to just be in your life for years and watch you on stages, watch you in rooms, have a lot of friends who are really close with you, be in masterminds and watch what happens when you're in the room, which is just like the most fun thing for me every year is to— okay, so let me set this up. So Tracy's been in our Elite Mastermind for years, like the beginning, since the very, very beginning.

Like the OG. Yeah.

And every year everybody ends up saying in the middle or end of year, or actually even after the very first session that we meet, when we go around and kind of talk about, you know, who helped who and who they're grateful for, your name comes up over and over and over and over again. And I'm saying this because these are 7 and 8 figure earners who are like, a lot of people from the outside get intimidated to even go in that group because they're like, oh my gosh, these people are so this and they're that and it makes me nervous and it's going to feel stretchy and all the things. And when they get in a room with you, it truly is not only about the business, but we also find having you in the room is one of the most powerful things for us, which is the coolest part about a mastermind is attracting people like you too. Yeah. Who then take care of parts of the people in there that we didn't even know needed to be taken care of. Things that I couldn't see, things that aren't necessarily in my wheelhouse.

Right.

And now through all of that too, you also do the things like this, obviously outside of the Mastermind, right? You have kind of taken so many different skill sets that you have between— you've been known for the Enneagram, people love coming to you for that. We've loved coming to you for that and having the different members learn it. But now you're using it for something also very exciting. Can you just share a little bit about what you're doing right now?

Yeah, I, you know, I, I focus on, you know, first it's the you team, right? It all starts with you. And then we have, you know, the home team, the families, which this is kind of where tools like this really started to integrate.

Yeah.

In the last 15 years, I, I tried it with me first, my, the U team, then the home team, and then it branched out into the pro teams. Mm-hmm. Right? Like when you have so many moving parts, whether it's in a family or in a professional team, um, you have to know how to interact with each other. And, you know, as a little girl back in the Midwest, You'll love this story. Like, I used to lay on the floor, you know, half my life is pre-internet and half my life is post-internet. Like, so I'm old school in a lot of ways, and I used to lay on the floor and read the atlas. Just read it for fun.

Okay.

And my dad used to be like, what the hell are you doing reading the atlas? Like, why are you reading Iowa? And I was just always— my brain has always, you know, been fascinated to understand, like, how do we get from here to there? You know, I could read people before I could read words, but I also was like reading this map, like trying to understand how this is all connected. And growing up with an alcoholic, I had to understand how things were connected without words being said as well. And so when the Enneagram came barreling into my life and I absolutely wanted nothing to do with it, was kicking and screaming with it, it was almost like when this got dropped in, it was like, you know, God, Universe, Source, whatever that means to you, was like, I have been waiting for your ass to be responsible enough and humbled enough to use something like this to carry this message of who we are as humans in a way that is a shared language that we could all understand, you know? And I'm intuitive by nature. You know, I've had that gifting since I was 9, like very clear gifting.

How'd you know that? You just—

Oh, it was very loud. And but I had no, you know, emotional capacity or anybody that went before me talking about this in my family. Because, you know, what happened in the house stayed in the house. And, you know, I tried to quiet it a lot of the time. So, you know, back to your question of what I do with people now, it, it's kind of like this: when the student is ready, the teacher and tools appear. And 14 years ago, I was humbled enough at a low point in my life where on paper it looked good and to the world it looked good, but I knew like if I didn't get support in a way that wasn't taught, told, or modeled for me, like it was just a matter of time before the ship would sink. And so when my therapist said, hey, I want you to do this Enneagram thing, I said, respectfully, Nancy, go fuck yourself. Like, I'm here to get some tools to get sober, to have some emotional support here. I don't need a fucking Enneagram test. And Nancy didn't miss a beat. And she's like, my dear, your best thinking has gotten you here, and how about you like take the ego down a few notches? Love Nancy. I've seen her— I saw her for 13 years after that.

Wow.

But it was her introduction to the Enneagram. And then sitting in rehab for 30 days, I had nothing but my, my journal and an iPod and my time with the Enneagram that I saw the power of it. And it worked like that atlas that I used to read. It's like, how do we get from here to there? It's like, you can take the girl out of the Midwest, but you don't take the Midwest out of the girl, right? And the Enneagram kind of works like that. Like, who we are at our core kind of resides in that framework, but we obviously venture out. We have some range. We don't just stay in the little Enneagram type bubble. Um, and if you don't know kind of where you go when things are great, you know, you might go off-roading in a way that takes you over a cliff or you can take a scenic route, which, you know, brings you more joy on the journey. And that's the kind of way that I integrate this within teams and families and, you know, individuals. Like, I give them the framework that is this roadmap, that is the atlas that I call the Enneagram.

Hmm. Do you feel like for you before that, because you said, you know, even at a young age, you could like nonverbal communication, you already got it and you probably had names for it in your head or understanding just even in your body. But did this give you like, now you can be in a room and even more clearly kind of define it for yourself?

Not so much for me. Yeah, I've always kind of had it like it almost gave me a giggle when I was learning about it early days because like, I already know this, but I didn't know how to communicate it. And it gave me a framework and a system that I could. And for 5 years I told no one I was using it. Absolutely no one. Um, and it, it was, this is typical me that I, I don't do something just because it's trendy or because it's like I can capitalize on this or it's scalable. The only reason I came out of the Enneagram closet is because it became popular.

Mm-hmm.

And I saw it being misused and kind of, um, watered down. I was like, you guys are missing the whole point. If you don't use this in a way that actually can benefit you. And even when, like, I didn't get certified in or accredited in any of it until about 6 years ago, you know, I was 8 years into facilitating this work and I was like, maybe I should see if I really know my shit. And so I went to go get accredited and the, the team that was, you know, facilitating the training, they were like, why are you here? Like, you teach this better than— you teach this better than we do. I'm like, that's all I needed to know. See you later. I'm not even gonna finish this. So Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was cool.

So now when you, like, when you're in a room like the mastermind room and a lot of people are coming to talk to you, do you use the Enneagram language? Does it help them immediately? And what can you share a little bit about more about it for people who don't know what it is?

It's, it's a framework that has 9 very unique perspectives. Mm-hmm. Fears and motives in which we process, see, communicate, and move through the world. Right. And there's a lot of schools of thought that your type doesn't change. And I believe that. And I've carried two babies in my body.

Mm-hmm.

And they were very unique personality-wise in utero before they had even dropped earthside. Right. And then they drop earthside and they're in my family unit. And that uniqueness that was them before anybody else got to see or experience them was very true to who they were. Out in the earth. And that's all of us, right? Like, I do believe we have this soul blueprint that is designed for us, and it happens to fall in this beautiful framework because all 9 different ways that these unique personalities kind of operate through the world all are needed and all are special. And it's like the holistic approach to like humanity and, and all of that. But then we are dropped into these families, like the ones that you and I were dropped into, and it's like a shit show and you're like, what is happening? And we experience things and traumas and Schools and teachers who tell you you're a retard. That's what mine said to me because I was left-handed. You know, like, that's how old I am, you guys. Like, yeah. And that alters that natural expression, that authentic expression of who we were designed to be. Right. And the cool thing about the Enneagram is like, it's not this box you put— you're put in. It actually helps you be reminded of who you were before life kicked you in the teeth, before so-and-so told you you had to be a certain way, before your parents said, do as I say, not as I do kind of bullshit. And it gives this freedom to be exactly who you were. And that was like the most profound moment in accepting the Enneagram in my life when Nancy was like, you know, lady, like this, this actually could help you. You know, at the time in my life, I was at such a low point. It's like if I have to overhaul every part of who I am, like, I don't think that that's going to be sustainable. And in fact, the Enneagram, Enneagram gave me full-blown permission to be exactly who I am designed to be. Now I'm responsible for the come from because the same thing that makes me amazing is also the kryptonite in my life. So knowing that like it's all superpowers, like everything about this framework can be superpowers in my life if I'm coming from a place of love, compassion, empathy, grace, service, fun, innocence.

Mm-hmm.

That my intensity, it is my superpower. Like, thankfully you've only really had to experience the good parts of that, right? You see the power, the magic, and the beauty of my intensity. That same intensity took my family down to ground zero when it's coming from fear, insecurity, unworthiness, shame, guilt, and ego. And so that's the cool part about this. You get to be exactly who you're designed to be. You also get some range because being this intense as a mother isn't always the right tool for the job. So thankfully, I know within who I am, and this framework is very clear and laid out for me, like, where I need to go to give me the range to be a nurturing mom, but also powerful and supportive and wise and all those things. So it's really, really cool for that. And when you're a CEO or a founder, or you're trying to implement things like AI in your life, like, you cannot like, lose who you are. Otherwise, it's just a matter of time before it's all going to fall apart. And, you know, the last 2 years, like we were talking before we hit record, have been really, really challenging for me. Probably the scariest few months of my life the last 14 years. And I am so thankful not only for my wisdom and like the business I have by bringing this beautiful tool to thousands of people now, but to keep me alive. Quite honestly, it got pretty dark there for a little bit. And because I understood and can read exactly what's happening here, doesn't mean it feels any less scary or horrible, but I know the way out and I know the cleanest way out and the most delicate and loving way out, not just the fast pass out. So I'm real life, like you said, like those that are here to make and facilitate transformation usually have to walk their own talk through it, not just once, but over and over, over. And this tool has saved my ass, saved my ass as a, you know, a partner in romantic partnership, as a mother. This tool single-handedly transformed the culture in my home overnight.

Wow. So I want to get into the business portion too, but before that, I would love for people to know, like when you say, oh my gosh, this, this transformed my relationships, this saved me from the dark moments. Can you like bring me to one of those moments with how do you, how did it save you and how did you tangibly use it for people who are like, how could I have a tool like this? Because we're going to talk about how this integrates into business, how this integrates into AI and what you're literally helping huge businesses with now. But in that moment, can you explain, explain that at all?

Well, something you said earlier you know, when you touched on me knowing early on in my life and understanding a lot of this early on, there is a gift in that. And there's also a crutch and a problem with that. Like, for my whole life, like as a 9-year-old girl, I cognitively understood all of this. All of it. Like, it made sense why things were the way they were. Again, if you've seen the movie The Hangover, there's that scene where he walks into the casino and there's all these equations going on above his head. That's kind of how I operate. I can be very cognitive. The problem is, is I had been neck down dead. And the way this works— and I have a few friends that get very heady about this, like, I'm moving into this. I'm like, yes, and you have to feel this. Like, this really only accelerates the transformation and all the things you want in your life if you can take the understanding and integrate it with emotional processing. And that's been my journey my whole life because I can understand shit till the cow comes home. Cows come home. But the vulnerability it takes to feel your way through it is something that I think a lot of us, especially high achieving, high performing people, because it's messy, it's not efficient. It doesn't seem like we have time for any of this shit. But it's like if you don't make time for it, like you're going to get a wallop upside the 2x4. So I'll tell you quite honestly, The last 2 years of my life have been really challenging. I'm in a relationship. It's beautiful. We have solid communication. Thank God for this tool and me understanding him. Otherwise I would have like walled up and like iced him out many, many years ago. But he's got a really—

we can share that.

Yeah, like seriously, he's got a really tough co-parenting situation. Like horrific. Oh, horrific. And allegations and like parental alienation and like awful to stand witness to and also not have any say in it. And holding— because I'm really great at holding that emotional, you know, place for not just thousands of people, but the love of my life and his children. It was chipping away. Like, I mean, I'm strong as fuck. Mm-hmm. And also I'm still human. And, you know, there were times it's like my stuff got pushed down. My— not that anybody was asking me to, but I woke up at the beginning of this year and I'm like, I am done. I am done. I am tapped out. I don't even know how to access any of my creativity. Honestly, I don't even know if my kids were here why I would even still be here. And I was walking around feeling like a dry drunk. And I have almost 14 years of sobriety under my belt. And that moment scared the fuck out of me. And also, I know where, where this, where I am in this whole framework and how to get out of it gently. Not try to rush it, not try to analyze my way. Well, you know, the Enneagram 8 does this when they're under stress. It's like, no, no, no. Like, let's, let's pause in this and feel the way through it. Like, yes, I can understand what's happening, but we bypass sometimes if we just understand. Yeah, but the Enneagram really helped me slow down, not just to like understand what's happening, but to feel my way back to health and to growth and to thriving all over again and to do the thing that I'm scared of most, which is to be vulnerable, even to the people that I trust with my life, you know? And I did. And immediately the weight was lifted. And immediately it's like, you know, the things that you're focused on, you're going to find it's gonna amplify. And this is where that full, you know, trust fall comes into play. It's like, okay, this is not my first rodeo. I've been through harder things. But, you know, even though he's been going through that hard thing, I didn't anticipate me, me going down with that shit as well, you know, trying to pump everybody else up. And it was, it was scary, you know. And then take into account the economy and the world and all the things at the same fucking time. Is that all? And both my kids moving out of my house and like, and, you know, the empty nester and turning 50. It was all these things all at once. I was like, okay, let's pause a moment.

Yeah.

And regroup.

So, so the reason that that's so powerful, like, learning that story too, and for what you do, is because you are a business owner. We are all business owners. And I think people listening to this podcast can look at other people and think like they must have something that I don't have, or how are they doing this, or, you know, how are they getting what they're getting or have the life that they have? And at the end of the day, everyone that I've met who's managed to somehow continue reinventing themselves. Yeah. Or continue to be successful or not collapse at business failures, getting sued, all the things that happen in business that are 100% normal. It's because they've figured out what you're figuring out right now.

Yeah.

Because if you play a big game, you're going to have big problems. A lot. A lot. Like, a lot. Like, it's actually going to be your norm. And, you know, we're in rooms all the time with entrepreneurs, you and I, and you see a lot in the beginning of people who are like, I might be doing it wrong if this stuff is happening. And it's like, no, you're doing it right if this stuff is happening. So now how do we build up the person, the founder? Because the business, all— it's not going to do well if that person is not doing well. And so much of what you do now is support. Well, you support that person, you support the teams, and you go and you support the, the family unit around the people. And so that's really interesting, like that line of work. Like, it's not something that people commonly go, I need a Tracy. Like, they don't really even have words, right, for what it is that you do. And right now, so much with AI is going on, and there's a lot of fear, Tracy. Like, it's, it's so positive what's happening with AI.

So positive.

But it's also like there's a lot of fear of, well, is my job okay? Should I fear this? Should I run from it? Should I try to, you know, just so many questions on what they should be focused on. For you, is there a way for you to explain to people when you come into a business and how it has the ability to transform? And then I also want to start the, um, AI conversation on that as well.

Yeah, you know, especially as teams are reducing.

Yep.

Because we can outsource certain things and remote work is hap— I mean, I'm just off the heels of a trip to Ireland. Yeah. For a tech company that is 100% not only remote, but they operate async, which means no live interactions. Everything, because they're on all the different time zones.

Wow.

That it's all done through Slack and videos, not even live Zooms.

Oh wow. Because the time zones.

Yeah. Yeah. Like it's impossible to— and I was like, oh my gosh. So you can imagine communication.

Oh yeah.

Is of the utmost importance. And it's— I mean, think about us just texting people. Like, so much gets misconstrued in that. So learning how to effectively communicate, especially to your power team. I mean, if you're going to go with a strong lean team, you better know how to be optimizing the way that you communicate with each other because one thing goes wrong, like the whole system can fall apart. And at a time when it's hard to find really good quality people, you want to make sure you're doing that and that you know that when things are going sideways, how each person might respond to it is going to look different and neither— none of them are wrong. But how do you help pull them up when it is hard for this one or, you know, vice versa? It's really cool. Like even in that, that company that I was with in Ireland, I mean, I would say 80% of them were engineers. Very heady people.

I dated one.

Yeah, exactly.

Chris's dad was one. Yep.

And, and you know, they're very analytical and I could, it's, it's the same thing every time when I walk into rooms with engineers and I, I'm obsessed with it cuz I know what's gonna happen if they're open. At first I could see the, you know, like this is stupid. Same way I did 15 years ago with Nancy. Yeah. I was like, whatever Nancy. They're like, whatever Tracy. And within 40 minutes, they're like, they start to get a little freaked out because they're looking at me. They're like, you don't know me, but you know me better than people who know me, especially them, because they're not probably sharing. And I would say something, I'm like, let me guess. And I just say this, and they're like, okay, it's a little creepy. I'm like, I know, I know. I said, and also, like, this is the beauty of you being you. Like, you deserve to be seen, heard, understood, and valued. And also, let's help you articulate this magic into this unit, this team, um, so that it's easier easier for you. Because I think a lot of times when we're communicating, it's like we're trying to throw stuff up at the wall, making it stick. And the older you get, like, the more exhausting that gets. But if you can optimize the way that you communicate with your team, with your partners, with your families— like, I, I don't have the energy management I did when I was 30. And when I'm optimal in the way that I communicate, I'm not as exhausted. I'm not— and there's less misunderstandings. There's less shit talking, there's less resentments. And when everybody's thriving like that, guess what's going to happen to the business? Guess what's going to happen to retention? Guess what's going to happen to customer retention and acquisition? Everything goes up when, when people are seen, heard, understood, and valued for who they are and utilized in the way that they were designed. It's freaking great.

Yeah, it's crazy when you actually understand. I mean, you did this for our team years ago. You know, we work with my brother-in-law.

Yeah.

And him and I, could not be more different when it comes to how we— completely how we work together. And for a while there, while I was insanely grateful for him, like, we couldn't have gotten our business remotely where it's at without him. I am such a fast start visionary that every time I'd bring an idea to him, he would, in my opinion, shoot it down. And I would, I would just collapse. So it would like, I'd crush, literally feel like I'm just crushing into myself. And be like, wait, I was so excited. I really felt like this would work. I feel like this is my life's purpose. Just overly, ridiculously passionate. But that's how I operate. And so I think if we would not— if I wouldn't have understood it, I don't know how well everything would have gone, totally honestly, because the communication just kept collapsing. Because him, he looks for what could go wrong. And you informed us of all of this, which was so powerful. He looks for what could go wrong. He's constantly looking for— it's why he's great. It's why our rooms, in my personal opinion, are second to none, is because he's always looking for—

million percent.

It's the best thing ever. But if I wouldn't have learned that about him, I was actually resenting him and not appreciating this gorgeous, amazing, life-changing skill set that keeps me in an awesome place in my power in different situations.

That's the beauty of this. This helps you not take the shit personally that you do. Or, I mean, and it feels personal. I'm not going to say that him, like, and I know his delivery sometimes, like, okay, I say that to him.

I know, really.

But like, it, it allows you, you know, to not take things so personal, even when it feels personal. Like, imagine raising two people that are completely different from you. Like, this, this is why I believe in this tool so much, because I was looking at both my children, low-key judging both of them for their gifts, and realizing that That's their gift. That's the way they're wired. That's what makes them great. I'm never going to use the words mini me again because they're mini them. And I have a lot to learn from those gifts that they have. If I can humble myself enough to see them, communicate with them, and empower them in a way that serves them, not say my way or the highway. And that's how, you know, when they were teenagers, this completely transformed overnight. Because I have a Nick. I have a Nick that I'm raising, and my intensity— like, it's cool because now I understand with him, like, I can be truthful like I can with Nick. It's great. Like, I can be truthful, but my timing and my tone is everything, and it brings both of them to their knees. When I do it to Nick, he's like, God, I'm trying to avoid you. I'm like, I see you, I find you, you know? And then I have a daughter like you. Who is this free-spirited, anything, like everything's possible. And you know, the tactical part of me.

Yeah.

And the, you know, the architect with my brain is like, you can't do that. You can't do that. And it's like, I can be intense with her.

Mm-hmm.

But I have to be a wordsmith with her.

Mm-hmm.

Where I can be truthful with him, but timing and tone matters. But with her, like every word matters. Mm-hmm. Because I never wanted her to feel the way that you were feeling.

Mm-hmm.

Like, ugh. Squashing my dreams. And you know as well as I do, if the people closest to you make you feel like that, you're gonna go find that somewhere else, usually in not healthy ways.

Mm-hmm.

And that's how this helped me even with the ones I was raising.

Mm-hmm.

And the three of us are a power team to this day.

But I mean, it's so powerful watching you operate in your relationship, especially with your kids. I love it.

Yeah.

Because, you know, we both come from families that, that like wasn't, there wasn't this communication at all. And I do believe what's really cool about what you do is that if one person in the family can transform, it does transform the relationships. Not perfect, but at least you have a little bit of power over it when you can understand what's going on.

Even when it hurts. Like, like I said, I'm estranged from a lot of my family. And although like my, my kids are evidence that that is the right decision, I broke every fucking pattern.

Everything.

Yep. And coming off the heels of Ireland, visiting my roots where like my name is so profound there. But you know, it's like—

O'Malley.

Yeah, it's still really painful. And both can be true at the same time. I'm not resentful, I'm not angry. And also it's like, I've tried, you know, and, and sometimes it's gonna work. Like, it isn't a full proof that this makes everything perfect, but it makes my my response and my healing through it way easier because of it.

Mm-hmm. So tell me about, you know, you're in— I just love talking about like how you're in the mastermind.

So you see so many, you see so many businesses, so many over the last 8 years.

So when people come in, I can only imagine your day one is very— our day ones are probably very similar, what I'm thinking. But also you go deep into like, oh God, here's what I'm seeing. This is happening because you're like this. This won't work because of this.

Mm-hmm.

Tell me when you go into a business, how you start assessing and even getting people open to this idea of a little bit of, um, Enneagram is a bit of like accountability.

Yeah.

Because with it, it's like you have the thing that makes you great.

Yep.

Is also the thing that can make you very weak.

Yeah.

And for me, looking at mine, I was like, oh yeah, that's for sure what my— I keep this pattern that I keep repeating over and over and over.

Mm-hmm.

And How do you start talking to a team? Like, how do you start talking to people?

Yeah, yeah. Usually it's somebody hears somebody talking.

Okay.

And this is the beauty of doing what I've been doing for as long as I do, because like you said, like, it's hard to put to words what I do, right? But, you know, I've been around for a long time, and people will hear somebody talk— there's communication, their culture, turnover, blah blah blah— and it's like the same thing. Like, you just need Tracy. Right. And so how I get the buy-in, it's like, listen, like communication and culture are probably the number one things that will take down a business. Like a breakdown in communication, shitty leadership, or non-effective leadership, I should say. You know, you can think you're leading great, but like all the signs are there, you know, and it always starts at the top. Um, and the culture that you create, you know, and this tool, when used properly. And, and I say this all the time, like, tools can be weaponized too. Enneagram's no different, right? I've seen the Bible weaponized, I've seen chainsaws weaponized, but they're also powerful, beautiful tools, all three of those things, right? And so, um, you know, and I know that's why it wasn't introduced to me till I was responsible enough, because I would have absolutely used this to weaponize. But how teams really see that, like, usually they've heard from somebody that is like, okay, she, she's legit. But it's the shared language that when I go, you have this tool. Now it's going to take practice understanding it and learning it and integrating it, but you still have me for that. But it's something that they can sustain long after I'm gone. You know, a lot of companies do these offsites and leadership.

Yeah.

You know, let's get to know each other. And I see them doing these stupid things and, and every single time I have come in, after they've been on offsites before, they're like, this was the best thing our company has ever done because it's useful. Yeah, not just useful within the framework of the company or the team that they're working with, but they also bring this back home to their families and to themselves. Um, so the shared language thing, the sustainability of using this as long as you practice— and sometimes they bring me in for the practice, you know, as the guide, just like you would hire a coach You know, like if you're Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan was the greatest of all time, but he always had a coach. But knowing that this is something that they continuously can use if they're willing.

Totally. So you're just making me think about like before Tracy is like the Tower of— what was it? Tower of Babel. What was it when he— all the languages in the Bible got separated truly, and that's where everything was split and divided if we're using Bible lingo. And that's the thing is even when Chris and I were first married, we had no language to speak together. So of course, two Sagittarius is two very passionate visionary people in the house. Like we just weren't, we weren't even speaking the same language at all. It wasn't until we got a, we went to like Landmark Forum, Tony Robbins, and we started to just use whatever languaging tools we had. We would have never been to, we would have never stayed together, Tracy. Like for sure, there were so many very fiery fights that my pattern to run and not talk about it and his pattern to win, we're just not going to work together. And so I don't think people realize the power of a language when you— it's a lang— it's a language that your whole team can use, that you can use, you can use with your friends, you can use with your family. Like all of our friends know this language.

I know.

And I struggled so much in female friendships before this because I just assumed they should know what to say, what not to say, when to text, whatever, all the things. And when you have this, beautiful things happen. You keep relationships, your business grows, you—

everything—

you get to experience things in life you've never experienced because the, the quality of the relationship in friendship, life, business, marriage, all the things just deepens so much. What does it look like when you go into a room, whether it's I'm sure it's kind of the same with family and with like when you go into different, you know, family situations compared to when you go in, um, like a big office setting or a big team setting. Can you give me the rundown on what that actually looks like? Like, I always think about this. I'm like, where does she even start? How does she walk in like, I'm Tracy, here's your Enneagram? Like, what does this look like?

You know, I think stories are like my experience with it is usually where I start. Because I'm not just like, hello, I'm here to talk about the Enneagram. It's like, you need to understand, like, the reason I'm as good at this as I am and as passionate about it as I am is because I have seen, experienced, and integrated this firsthand in my life. And this— and I think it's really important that, you know, for anything, like, like, why should I listen to you? I mean, I'm that way anyway. It's I don't give a shit who you are. Like, what's in this for me? And parts, you know, because I— it is transformed and helped in every area of my life, not just with me and sobriety, my kids, my relationship, but business. Like, before I was the Enneagram girl, you know, it's helped me lead 100,000 people, teams.

Yeah.

Of all different walks of life. And so I come in and I usually kind of start in the heart space. And I get vulnerable first, you know, appropriate to whatever the audience is. Like the team of engineers, I went a little bit there, but like, I, they wouldn't want to hear all of that.

Yeah.

With a husband, wife, I go right into the heart. I go right into the bedroom with it, you know, with families, with kids. Like, I will go to where I know their hearts are hurting.

Mm.

And any level, whether it's professionally or personally. And that usually— and I have so much experience in my life This is the beauty of being 54. I can, I can touch every person in the room with some form of an experience of what's going to be in this for them. And that's usually when the exhale comes. And then I'll go into parts of the Enneagram. I kind of work from the outside in before I'm like, okay, you're this, you're this, you're this. I kind of start with the centers of intelligence because we use all three of them. Like, regardless of what your type is, we do move around the intelligence centers.

What are those ones?

Um, we have the head, the heart, and the gut.

Okay.

Right. So you are a heart person, Chris is a head person, and I'm a gut person, right? Same thing in my family. I'm the gut person and I have one heart, one ahead.

Oh wow.

And just even understanding that, like, how you respond to things— you need significance, like, that is going to be your main driver. Now, for sure, means to the other two types in that center is going to look a little different, Chris needs certainty. He needs certainty that there's freedom, choices, and options at all time, all the time. Me and your brother-in-law, we need independence, autonomy, and control. Like, even just understanding that, if you know nothing else about our talk, like, that shifted— that can shift any room and any leadership team. And so I kind of start from the outside in, and then I kind of break— it gets more granular, and then you know, even those that are in the same center of intelligence. I'm like, yeah, but like this one, that's what that means. Significance means this one. That's what significance means to this one. That's what significance means to this one. And they're like, oh, okay. Like they start to get it. It's not just like I'm here to put a label on all of you now. Good luck.

Yeah. And it definitely— I feel like, can it— can that significance meaning change throughout your life too, for you, or does it stay the same?

Yeah, like what independence, autonomy, and control meant to me, like for an 8 specifically, it means strength and power. Now that my, my recalibration of what that means has absolutely changed. Like I grew up in an environment where I saw abuse of power and strength, but I That's how I'm operating. So of course, monkey see, monkey do, right? And so what I believed was strength and power for most of my life was a not so healthy version of it. I still am motivated by strength and power, but what that means to me today is vulnerability, transparency, community, where I'm typically like a lone wolf, you know? But I've learned that my— I'm more strong and more powerful when I am doing the vulnerable thing, when I am leaning in instead of leaning out or isolating myself. So like the expression and our understanding and recalibration of what that means to us absolutely changed. But like, it's kind of like, this is the road back to you, baby.

Like, so good. I've really watched your female friendship shift so much, which has been so beautiful in the room. Unreal. I mean, because I was going through kind of the same transformation. I always am. There's always a part of me that when something goes wrong in a female friendship, I want to push them away and be like, fuck you. Literally. See, this is exactly why I don't do this. And so just watching you in the rooms with how, like, letting women in your life and but watching how beautiful it's been. But I can see the squirm because I have the squirm in me.

Yeah, I don't know how it is. Like, if I like The moment that that happened for me, I was 50. Mm. 50, 50 years old before that happened. That's Sally O'Malley, you guys. Saturday Night Live. So good. Anyway, I was 50 years old before my first intimate female friendship happened. Wow. That first one was a little dysfunctional, but like she gave me the tracks to run on to see like when that thing, you know, blew up at that moment, my, I know you'll get this. My first prayer was, please God, don't shut my heart down. Because yes, even though this one was not for me, and this is terrible, and this is revealing more work that I have to do, please don't armor up my heart.

Million percent.

And instead of leaning out, I picked up the two friends that maybe weren't getting as much attention, but they were the real deal, and they're my two closest friends today. In that moment that I very easily could have armored up and see, see, this is why I don't trust bitches. See, you know, and I didn't. And the last 4 years of my life, everything great about my life is because of the women in my life and the one that I'm raising. And honestly, I watched her in female friendships, and that happened because of her relationship with me. I didn't have this with my mom. I had nothing with my mom. She's a good person, just zero capacity. I couldn't trust women. And this tool has allowed me to trust women too, even when I get, you know, what'd you call it? The— what'd you call it? It was good.

I know.

It was too big. We were like, cringy.

The squirmies.

The squirmies. Yes. Like, even when I get the squirmies, the Enneagram brings me and anchors me back in. It's like, no, we're not doing that. Like, we know that road.

We know that you do that.

We know that.

That's in your It's okay. Your chart, what do you call it when it's on your sign or chart or when you're like my framework that's in your energy? I don't even know.

I'm like, bitch, you know what you're doing. Like, it's all good. Like, be gentle with yourself and like, don't run.

Let's talk about those shifts because there's kind of the— how do you say this? There's like the shadow side or there's the side that you can be. And there's also like this strength side. And then throughout your life, so much changes. Like for sure, when you said significance, That's 1,000,000% me. And I've known that since I started doing fitness things, that that was very important for me. Yeah, but the word has changed so much. And actually, in like the past 2 to 3 years, it shifted so much to the point where I'm like, oh gosh, I'm a little freaked out because I don't feel it at all in the way that I felt it. And it's—

tell me about it.

I'm getting very uncomfortable. I'm having trouble finding the same motivation. Because things are so different that I'm like, oh God, what do I do? So I'm working really hard on— because the same significance doesn't motivate me to run through a wall anymore because I just don't feel like I need it anymore. I'm pretty like, I have to figure out what that word means to me now. So yeah, sounds like you're kind of in this position.

I've been in it.

Tell me a little bit about that experience because I think a lot of women, if they're around my age, are probably experiencing.

Yeah, it's like I don't know how to necessarily operate if I'm not like this phoenix rising from the fucking ashes all the time. I mean, that's like the anthem cry for an Enneagram 8. It's like, I can be strong and powerful. And how do you actually make shit happen when the world's not falling apart, where you don't have to put on your superhero cape? It's like, how am I strong if I'm not doing it that way? And it— I'm not saying it's messy. Same thing with you. Like, how do you— like, if you're not motivated by things that are measurable, which you have been your whole existence, how do you know you won?

I know. I don't.

I know. I know I'm strong, right? It's like you do the uncomfortable thing and you know that you're significant. You don't have to earn it. You don't have to win it. You're breathing. You're here. You're beautifully and wonderfully made. Mm-hmm. But how do I get up and make something happen with that?

I know.

Practice.

I know it's kind of been like I'm asking myself a little bit different questions. I'm like, okay, where's, where's kind of like the joy when I do the work? Because I, I do love hard work. I really do. I don't want to just stop working. No, but I don't know what's going to motivate me to want to go in. I'm not even sure where to direct it. Actually, in the last 2 days I've gotten pretty clear, thank God. But let me tell you the gap in between. Tracy, I think it's like, how do we How do you help somebody trust that gap?

Faith. Practice. Fall down a few times. And this is the beauty of our age. We've seen when we've trusted and had some faith. And, you know, I, I say to people all the time, like, I bring you to the fork in the road and, you know, you have a choice. When you hit that fork in the road, you go down the path that you know, but you know it's, it's not for you, or you go down the one that you can't see. You can't see who's down there. You can't even see 2 feet in front of you. And most of us go there and then get freaked the fuck out and then run back towards the other road that we know, even though we know it's not for us, or it's like we know what— how this ends and it's not ideal, but at least we can expect it. Exactly right. And I'm like, I am in that, that I'm down that road waiting for you, that when you get scared— and I say this to myself, like, because it's just the little part of us that's really freaking out, you know, and it's this more evolved like, um, wise version of ourselves that's like, like, I know you're scared. This is scary, you know. For you, like, doing things just because it's fun, like, that's nothing you've ever done in your life. No, ever. Because like, you can't— like, fun isn't measurable necessarily. You don't win an award for that or have your picture necessarily taken for that, you know.

How do I ensure people will like me? Which is survival.

Yes.

Yeah, it is.

Strength is survival for me. Me being vulnerable, I'd rather die. Feels like you're dying. It does. Yeah, it does. But like, you know, a month ago, 2 months ago, when I sat there and spoke to my daughter and revealed like, babe, I don't even know how I'm getting up in the morning right now. I feel like a dry drunk. I don't even feel like life today feels worth living if you weren't here. You know, that was really vulnerable. And, you know, I have so much clout in the eyes of my own daughter. She thinks I'm the strongest woman she's ever known. And I was like, A, I don't want to burden her, but B, like, will I lose some of the armor of that badge? And she looked at me, you know, I did not want to do it, but I knew I had to. Like, I had to do the thing that feels contrary to what I normally would do, which is to armor up, tough this out, be okay. Fake it till you make it bullshit. And instead, I looked her dead in the eyes and told her the truth. And in that moment, she's like, you're the strongest woman I've ever known because of this. And I've never been more proud to be your daughter.

So the antidote is like the exact contrary action, the contrary action, the thing that feels most uncomfortable.

But the thing is, is we can spiritually bypass ourselves and bullshit ourselves and cosign our old patterns because I can justify reasons why I should not have done that until I was blue in the face all day long. But I knew. And that's the beauty of this tool. It doesn't lie to you the way AI can.

Yeah.

You know, because if I had put this into a little, little AI robot, I'd be like, of course don't, girl. No, that's not for you.

You're strong.

You got this. Let's try it this way.

Yeah.

You know, and so that's what I love about the, the the beauty of this tool. It tells you the truth.

I think that's the thing that's, that is gonna be so huge right now and already is.

Yeah.

And you're already seeing that with the people that you're working with is they're bringing you in to make sure the human side still stays the human intelligence. Yes. Tell me a little bit about that because I think we're getting confused on where do we all outsource?

Sure.

Where should we have people?

And I love it.

Mm-hmm.

Like amazing. I'm somebody who likes to move really fast too.

Yeah.

Like it's powerful. Yeah, and it's seductive.

Mm-hmm.

And that's the problem is— and I'm not saying like downsizing teams is a bad thing and working smarter, but those things that you are automating or agents, like that's the buzzword, you know, creating agents. Yeah, it's amazing. Brilliant. Thank goodness. But those things are only as effective as the human intelligence plugging into it.

Totally.

And that's where the problem is. And I even found myself in this trap. Like, of course, when this came out, what, 2, 3 years ago, I was like, cool, it's gonna make my life easier. There's nothing worse than staring at a blank page.

Totally.

Like, it's torture. Like, I'm gonna write today, I got nothing. So like, the emergence of this was exciting, and then it is seductive, and then you're in it, and then it's like you're a shell of a human because you're not using your human intelligence. You're like, okay, what works for marketing? And I'm not saying any of this is wrong, but I think when we lean on that so much. Like, you're, you're, you're outsourcing yourself. Like, use it to optimize you, not replace you— your voice, your essence, your spirit, your compassion, your empathy. And with this team in Ireland, you know, with the way that they're operating, I was like, these things are all great, all the things that you're doing. Now, how do you optimize the humans that are inputting into that? Mm-hmm. Because if they aren't their best selves, if they aren't truly their own human intelligence kind of machine here, mm-hmm, none of this is gonna matter. None of it's gonna land. You're gonna wake up one day and look at the screen and be like, that doesn't sound like me. That's not, you know, hitting the mark. And you won't be able to kind of reverse engineer it. Mm-hmm. Like, that's the problem.

Yeah.

You know, and as fast as it goes, cuz it moves really fast. That's like, think about a car going 80 miles an hour crashing into a wall.

Mm-hmm.

Versus the 20-mile-an-hour one.

Yeah.

You know, speed is sexy. I get it. And also, I hate this. I know you do too. Slowing down to speed up. No, it's, and it's very true.

Unfortunately.

Very important.

As a fast start, I know it's true. You're gonna have to go back anyway. So.

Exactly. And it's a lot harder to kind of reverse engineer what went sideways if it's fully reliant on just all of these beautiful things that it can do, but without the human intelligence plugging into it and optimizing it to work for you, it's just going to be a big hot mess later.

Where are you seeing, especially amongst, you know, our peers and you guys, a lot of our peers are like people in the entrepreneurial space and the creator space. They are either solopreneurs or they have a brick and mortar or they're online. Where are you kind of seeing things that online are blaringly, like, outsourced that shouldn't be?

90% of it. I think, you know, it reminds me, and you know, I came up in that same era of social media. Like, you know, we were in that rise of the early 2010s.

Yep.

Right. That's kind of when— and what worked then? You want to know what worked great then? Authenticity.

100%.

I mean, that's why it worked for me. I was like, no script, no you know, uh, wrong spellings, fucking bad paragraphs, dot dot dot instead of an— like, I mean, it was just, it was just authentic, true, and it worked. And then people are like, oh, how can I monetize that? How can I capitalize that? And I'm not saying that that's wrong, but even myself, in the way that I would show up on it, I was like, this sucks. Like, I don't want to think of a hook to get your 2.7 seconds of attention. Fuck that. You know, I was just like, I want to tell you a story. Yes. And like, like, that's why I love Substack. Like, I'm loving the emergence of Substack because it's made for somebody.

Same.

For all of us.

Twice, but I love it. Yes.

You know what I mean? But it's like the old school way. And I think old school and new school can find, you know, a beautiful playground together. And for a little bit, social media did do that until it's like, let's let's capitalize on this. And then it got ruined. And I'm seeing kind of the same thing with AI a little bit. It's like, I don't even enjoy watching puppy videos anymore because I'm like, is that dog even fucking real? Or babies, and they're so funny. I'm like, this isn't real. And people, like, you know when a robot wrote something, and you actually lose credibility and trust the more that you let it do that for you. Because if I see you using it all the time, how do I really know that you know what, that you can help me? And I won't do it. I'll use it for ideas. I'll use it for like brainstorming, or even with a podcast, like, I want to— this is where I want to go, give me like some bullet points so I stay on track. Because obviously, as you know here, I can go off on a tangent. I'm same, right? So it's really good for something like that. My, my partner, my guy, he's like hardcore ADHD, all the things. AI has been a miracle for him because of his imagination brain. He's an Enneagram 4, so like his brain and his imagination runs rampant, and he could never land anything. And AI gives him a place to kind of like reverse engineer it and give him some structure that he otherwise didn't have. Like, I think it's beautiful for that. But outsourcing your voice, I think, is the biggest thing, the biggest disservice you're doing to your spirit, to your soul, to your business in the long game. You might get some traction now, you might feel good because you're putting out content, but nobody fucking cares because they know it's not you. And you lose credibility and trust, and that will take down a business quicker than, you know, you not posting every, every day.

Yeah, because you— I— when I think about how easy it is for people to literally just read a script, like read an AI script do an AI quote or do an AI hook, like you actually don't feel— if you're not feeling connected to someone, I don't think it's going to grow. And you can look, you can literally look at who is like reading the scripts and doing the hooks. And it does feel— I'm like, oh, I don't even know if they know that or if they're just reading that at all, like through all of their entire social media.

Do you want to know why TikTok Shop works so well?

It is like as real as it gets.

Bingo. Because it's regular people doing their funny, cool thing with a product that, yes, they're getting paid to advertise. Guys, but it's not fake. It's messy because that's human. Human.

Yeah. Yapping is working as well for that same reason. Like, it's just messy, and it's like, here's what I'm thinking right now.

We're not being like manipulated. Like, we know you didn't write that. And I'm not saying don't use it to like give it some bones.

Totally.

Because I use it for the bones.

I love it for frameworks. I love it.

Love it.

Because I'll go crazy.

Yes. Yeah, I'm, I am terrible. Like back in the day of early social media when I would write, people like, you're such a good writer. I'm like, actually, technically I'm a terrible writer. Even as a speaker, I always have a hard time tying a bow on it. Like, it's always been my thing, whether it's speaking on a stage, on a podcast, in my writing.

Yeah.

And this helped me with that.

Yeah, that's awesome.

So, you know, but I know that stuff is empowering when that happens. Very empowering. But it won't write anything of mine. It just won't, because the part of, part of me that makes me so powerful is like, I am truthful, I am authentic, and I am real. And if I give away that, it's over.

Yeah, it's an energy that's carried in the— I think the people who are truly doing really well right now, yeah, they're not outsourcing that portion of it.

Like, can't—

I will, I follow them and listen to them say that over and over. Like, you just It's because energy transfers. It does.

And when you got a robot with the energy, there's no energy.

Mm-hmm. It's why people still love podcasting and people do love Substack and the message. Substacks.

Yes, it's exactly it. Like have it scan your emails for shit and, you know, have agents that do like, thank God, you know, and like, I love that. And in fact, that should give you more permission to use your voice in the things that matter because that's taking care of some of the, Yeah, you know, mundane crap.

Exactly. I'll use it there all day.

All day.

Responses to emails, you know, things that like, unless it's a personal email or something like that.

But my God, that is like, like if anything, it's freed you up to be more you, but now you're terrified to be you. And this is where the human intelligence can, can be married to the artificial intelligence. But like, it's giving you the permission slip. Now what are you going to do with it? You're gonna hide?

Mm-hmm.

You know, hide behind it.

What do you tell people when, like, especially if it's a friend of yours, cuz we just want, well, Tracy doesn't really, um, filter herself for anything, so it doesn't have to be a friend. What do you tell?

Oh, I just did. I just did to a friend.

What do you tell a friend who is like hiding and is afraid to start but has something big to do?

I did, um, about a week and a half ago. Yeah. You know, she was— I mean, it's brilliant to be using it in your business, but it's, it's more like you get that momentum of how fast you can move with it.

Yeah.

And all of a sudden you're moving at that high pace and it's like the engine keeps revving and you don't want to slow down and slow down. And I hadn't heard from her and I'm like, I don't want to hear about your fucking life through your email list.

Hmm.

You know, I do voice— we do voice notes. They're like love languages for us. Like we live of, you know, 20-minute voice notes, mini podcasts every day with me and my group of friends.

Like, love that.

There's like 6, they're the best, 6 every day. Every morning I go on a walk with my dogs. But I said to my friend, I'm like, I don't want your AI-generated recap of your fucking life. Like, I don't want to have to hear about it that way. It makes me very sad. And because I love you, I'm saying this to you. And she's like, it was really hard to hear. Like, I appreciate that your email list is encapsulated, but like, I shouldn't hear it from that because I love you and I'm here to support you through what you just shared. Like, that was pretty deep. At least the robot said it was.

Yeah.

You know, and I, and I want the real you. I want the messy you. I don't want like the, the bullet-pointed like rundown of what's been going on when you've been hiding from me. Like, I know it's not fun and it's messy, but I'm here for it.

Mm.

You know, it was really hard.

Yeah. I mean, I'm guilty of that. It's easier for me sometimes to write in an email than it is to call a friend.

Yeah.

Because it feels like burdensome.

And, you know, full transparency, I've— and, and I was gentle and nurturing and also direct and firm.

Yeah.

And I— that's the only way I operate. You'll get equal part. I mean, they call me the Velvet Hammer. So, like, I mean, I'm going to give you equal parts love and compassion and empathy and nurturing. But I'm also going to be radically truthful as fuck. And, you know, that's the only way I will be. And I've lost friendships over that because some people are not okay with the mirror being held up. I mean, I'll turn the mirror on myself too. It's not easy. I get it. But I've lost friendships over that. And it's— I would still do it a million times over because if you can't stand in the fire with me, what are you even doing? And you should want that for all your relationships. You want to know who's going to stand in the fire with you.

That's very true. And I think what's powerful about that is like, you know, I think sometimes that can be really scary for people. Like, oh gosh, I have this person who's going to hold this mirror. And if it comes on a day I don't want to hear it. And so it just feels easier to protect yourself because we're already so good at that. Yeah. But I think what's powerful is even it goes back to the whole thing that you've been talking about is when you know this about a friend, then you just accept all of it. All of it. Because I fully— Lori Harder. I live with him. I don't know if you know that. For 25 years.

Yeah.

And knowing that he also can be that way is like one of the most powerful things for me because I get the other side of it where it's like I'm always going to know where he sits. Always. I don't have to worry about it. And he's going to call me out. And sometimes he's wrong and a lot of times he's right.

Yeah.

And it's like, if I did not know that, that is just how his— he is and his delivery, and that's important to him to be able to like say all the things and be honest, then I mean, we would never be together because I would have taken it so personally.

And you wouldn't have grown and all the things like it. But you know, he's going to stand in the fire with you.

A million percent.

And I would rather know that when we're being the most authentic, true, loving, with good intent. Yes. And integrity. Huge. You know, it's like You know, you got to have intent and integrity because I didn't intend that. Well, you're out of integrity, so fuck you. You know what I mean? It's like you can have pure intent, but you also have to be in integrity that you're walking your own walk too, you know? And so me saying that to my beautiful friend, it's like, am I holding up my end of the bargain on that? Yes, I am. Yes, I am. So I felt okay saying it to her and I knew it was going to hurt and we're better for it. Yeah, we're better for it.

Totally. And you get your voice notes back.

I do. And you know, like the friends that I have in my life, I mean, I know that my intensity can be a little like, if you have to tell me something, like first of all, it's hard because of that intensity. But also I, I'm older than everyone of my friends and, and I have more experience of life. So like, who are they to tell me? Like they have a lot of place to tell me. Because they have different experiences and their own divine wisdom. And, you know, I think even my own children do it. Like the courage it takes for my beautiful, sweet, sensitive, empathetic Enneagram 2 son to tell me the truth. Like, I don't like it, but man, I'm like, that had to feel really brave of you right now. He's like, I wanted to shit myself. And I'm like, and thank you for loving me enough me enough to tell me the truth.

Isn't that the truth?

And knowing that even though, like, maybe the way that I'm operating feels personal, knowing that it's not, and loving me enough to put that own "it feels personal" part of you aside to say, "I love you enough to tell you this for us." Yeah. Yeah. It's great.

It is great.

Everything's better because of it.

You cannot— you can't have the depth without those conversations.

You can't.

And I hate it.

Hate it.

Hate it. There's no, like, I hate it, but I hate it. And I have amazing relationships. Yeah, I think people on the outside, like, they start looking, and I'm sure it's so funny too because now people are like, oh my God, you have all these great friendships, and you're like, um, I did not. And I went, like, you have to kind of go through hell in order to get them.

Have to. And it's just like, you have to have the contrast.

You have to have the contrast.

Like, how do you know, like, you're filled with so much joy and excitement if you haven't experienced, like, the dark night of the freaking soul?

Totally. Totally. It's the range. I really do believe that you can only go as high as the depths that you're willing to also go.

You know, that's good news for us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. We're going up. Yeah, it's going on up. Well, I'm so grateful for you.

Honored.

How does the team— how does the team know, like, what's kind of going on in a team or in a relationship or in someone's life where they're like, okay, I should really— yeah, I think I need some help.

Some of my favorite work is couples and besties. Like, I've done girls' night week You know, they, they all went on vacation. You know, my, my goal, Sarah Blakely, if you're listening, you know, she does her, her trip, her trip every year. I've done a few of those for friends that do that, like besties that have been friends for like her friends for decades.

Yeah.

And done the whole workshop in a very fun girls weekend kind of way. Amazing. Can you imagine?

Oh, we're going to make— that's going to happen.

Like, amazing.

On all— on top of all of you. Just put that out there right now. Hold it for 3 seconds.

Great, please. And I'm not somebody who puts like big goals or like big stupid idea time. I know this when it— Chris, like, I don't do that. That is mine. Like, to be able to pour into her and her beautiful friends. Like, imagine like you and your girlfriends like knowing each other in a totally more intimate way.

Yeah.

Um, same thing with couples. Like, that same friend that I was telling you about, her husband for their anniversary bought a session with me for them, and they were like fighting, and they don't— like, we're fighting and we're missing the mark, but we know, like, we're better than this, and our love is deeper than that. We just maybe need somebody to kind of, like, be a guide. And he's like, and I know you'll hold her accountable too, as much as you will me. I'm like, yes, like, I'm for the team. Like, that's the other thing, like, I'm here for definitely the team, the company as a whole. And that means all of you get called out. Totally. Not just the, like, the one that hired me. You're not safe.

Right.

Just so you know, that's 100%.

You guys, I can vouch for that.

Like truly, she'll be for the whole team, the entire team, the entire family, the entire marriage, the entire girls group, whatever. Um, but usually what's happening is like, you just feel like the, the floor might be about to be pulled out from underneath you. Mm-hmm. You might lose key people. You need to hire people, but you, you've made shitty hires or you know you've hired the wrong people and you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Like this helps expose either they're the problem or they, they have some range to be able to grow, or we need to like clean house. And I've helped companies do that too. I was, you know, because I'll take on the entire team and I'll be like, this ain't gonna happen, this ain't gonna happen, or this can happen, let me help them with this and see like where we can get this. You know, if you have somebody you believe in but you're like, oh, How much longer can I tolerate not getting what I want out of this person? Yeah, I come in very objectively. I'm like, yeah, no, not going to happen. Or you're the problem.

Yeah.

And the way that you're speaking to them isn't, you know, maybe growing. So all sorts of, you know, I handle the messy people shit, Lori, you know, so like anything that feels messy or the stuff that is like uncomfortable, the hiring, the firing, culture growing, remote work, all the things we really need to call people in for. The things to tell you, the things your robots can't do for you.

Exactly.

Is my expertise, and I am obsessed with it.

I love it, and you're so great at it.

Thank you.

So where can we, where can we work with you?

You can go to tracyomalley.com. Um, you can find a way to contact me. I'm on Instagram, um, Tracy_O'Malley, all the things. If you are interested in, you know, the Enneagram, because the problem is the online assessments are inaccurate. 65 to 70% of the time. And you can imagine if you're using this like an atlas, having the right coordinates are kind of important to get you where you're supposed to go. My assessment that I have available, um, VIP pricing for Earn Your Happy listeners. You just use the code Earn Your Happy, or yeah, Earn Your Happy, and you'll get $20 off my assessment, which is over 95% accurate.

Awesome.

And so at least you'll have the right atlas and the right roadmap. And there's an option if you want to do like a little live reading with me, like for 30 minutes, I'll explain what all of it means. But you can go to traciomalley.com for that, for working with me, for a consult to see if maybe, you know, you want to bring somebody like me in to help you with your team or your family, your— the you team, the home team, or the pro team. I can help you with all of it.

Have fun picking because you're going to want her for all of them.

Most do. Most do. The, the fam. And yeah, I've got one client right now where I'm all all three.

Yeah, well, once you realize the power of it, you're like, well, I have to know what this person is because I have to know how to work with them better.

So I need to know how to sleep with him without wanting to throw punch him.

Exactly, that too.

Yeah, that too.

Okay, well, I'm so grateful for you. You guys, definitely go check it out. Everything is literally in the show notes, so you could just scroll down. We can make it really easy. And until next time, earn your happy.