10. Environmental innovator Linian Li on the commodification of water, the impact of climate change on developing regions, and breaking into a career in sustainability without a degree in engineering

Hello, Bonjour, Nihau, and salut. Welcome back to the Impact around the World podcast. I'm Cassandra Pittman, edech's country manager for the UK and Ireland and host of the show. In this episode, I'm pleased to be joined by lillian Lee, an EDEC alumna who graduated with a master's in management in 2010. She's gone on to create a real impact for future generations. An environmental and natural resources executive with more than 10 years of management experience in sales, business development, and product management, she uses her passion for tackling climate change to make the treatment of recycling of water more efficient. She also serves on the executive committee of the British Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai and continues to be an alumni ambassador for us here at edec. Thank you so much. Just a note to those of you watching this episode on YouTube and IGTV. Unfortunately there is no video of the interview itself due to technical issues. However, Lin Yann is just as captivating in audio as she is in video. So please enjoy my interview with the wonderful Liniane Lee.

Lin Yann, thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me.

So I was wondering if you could give just the very layman's version of what Deep Verge does and how it is working on the larger issue of climate change within this very specific area of water. Am I right in thinking that what Deep Verge does is take water that would be unsafe for human consumption and make it safe for human consumption?

It's just like a separation, the clean water and also the brine, maybe the ounce of waste inside. So it's like a filtration, similar kind of philosophy. So membrane is in the past. You have very high pressure power to push the clean water go through the membrane, then you can have the clean water. One application we do is seawater desalination. So we take the sea water and treat it through the membrane technology and get the clean water for people.

That's amazing. And the reason I say it's amazing is because I recall watching the movie the Big Short. Did you see that movie? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. So for anybody who hasn't seen it, it's a, you know, it dramatizes the 2008 financial crisis and everything that happened with subprime mortgages. And at the end it says, you know, the. The genius who saw all this in the beginning and ended up making billions shorting, shorting on. It now only invests in water. And because this is going to be one of the world's most scarce resources in the. In the medium term 2 3rd of.

The people who are living in the country where it has a water stressed. So and even the global warming will make the situation even worse. So we definitely need a new technology, new solution. On the one side to help people to find new fresh water resources, on the other side it can save energy. So that's what modern water is keen doing. And it's the company's mission to save energy and also provide innovative technology to help the people to get fresh water.

And you're based in China?

Yeah.

Does Deep Verge work mostly in China or do you work internationally?

Deep Verge is a UK listed company, so our head office is in London and they have the subsidiaries cover the us, Middle East, Japan and also China here. China, because I'm the first staff. So starting from scratch. Currently we have two companies in China, one is in Shanghai and one we have a manufacturing base in Chongqing.

And how did you get involved in this? What is the journey of somebody going from business school to working on, you know, creating clean water for the world?

Yeah, so that's something quite interesting I think actually thanks to EDX program. The program I take is the program, but the programs is designed quite flexible and have lots of choice. So what I did in my final year through the MIM program is I did exchange study to Canada and study MBA specialized in natural resources, energy and environmental in University of Alberta. So that's the major quite specialized in that, especially for the environmental and the energy sector. So that's the reason I always want to enter this kind of environmental sector, even I have fitness master degree, because I feel the future of the 21st century, the future is for the environmental sector. And that's also in fact the facts tell and also the facts prove that every country is start to pay attention to the environmental, the climate change.

So when did this vision that you have, I mean, I think you've articulated it so beautifully here that the environmental sector is the future of business, almost irrespective of what business the business is in. And you obviously whilst you were at Edick, you sought out an opportunity to gain more academic knowledge in that. But obviously that passion must have come first. When did you first start thinking this is something I want to get interested in? And what sparked that initial interest?

I think it should trace back my first year in Lila. So I found that like French brethren, they started separate garbage, which at that time China hadn't really had such kind of regulation or law to ask citizens to separate the waste and recycle the waste. And maybe some of the good responses can be made to other materials. So I think that's quite amazing and that's something really inspire would like to do. I mean do something is, can benefit the society, the country.

I think that's so powerful. You go to a different place, you know, it happened in this case to be a different country, a different school, you go to a different place where things are done just that little bit differently. And such a simple experience of oh in France, everybody separates the recycling from their rubbish sparks a whole new thinking about what you want to dedicate your career to. So what was as you say, especially at that time, you know, this wouldn't have been a common thing for business school graduates to be thinking about. I think more and more they are. Um, but the path then after business school to getting that job in a sustainable field is not as obvious. Right. All the banks are on campus recruiting from September every year, right. August if they can, if, if we can, you know, if they can convince us to let them on campus early. So and similar for a lot of the major industries. So how did you go about breaking in getting that first opportunity in this field?

So in fact it's not so easy. So even I have MBA from the famous university Canada. But they always ask do you have engineer background? Do you know the technology? So it's really taking me a long time to looking for the right opportunity. So you know, the life pace is quite slow in Canada. So I still feel like if I want to do something there will be definitely more opportunity in China. So that's why I back to my hometown Shanghai. And during that time there's many European companies would like to enter the China market. So it's just randomly I just keep looking for such opportunity and the company is treasure my business background like the what I had studied marketing, finance, you know operation management and can help the company open the China market for them. So at that time Modern Water was looking for either enter China or go to India to starting to introduce its membrane technology. And I think it's the right timing and the right study, background, working experience to help me to get this opportunity and let me be the first staff to help the company set up the office here in China. So it's not easy but I always have something in mind. This is something I want to do because when I back to Shanghai there's many offer for a media company, the retail company and also consulting firm. But if you insist, they always have the chance. Just like looking for right partner.

Yes, I think that's a really apt comparison. I'm Saying to students often that the job search is very much like dating, more now than ever since we date on apps and we find all of our jobs on LinkedIn. But tell me, when you say you were dedicated to it, focused to it, whatever it might be, what were the exact steps? I mean, did you find it through just applying to jobs that you saw online? Did you network with communities in that case?

In fact, I just applied online and they just let me do the interview. And I think at the final round, I think they see my passion and they feel that's quite key for their business. So at the end they choose me. Or maybe they see I graduated from Addict and they choose me. Who knows?

Well, I mean, I mean I'm sure it is your passion as well as the overall skill set that you brought, your intellect and the skills that you gained. But I do think that your genuine enthusiasm and passion for the mission, no matter what you're applying to, can. Can be underrated, right? By. By people when they're interviewing. They don't realize how much that can come across and set you apart in an interview process. Yeah, but I mean it does bring me onto a question I had which is given the fact particularly that Deep Verge is. Is European based in the. Well, I mean, post Brexit, are they European or are they British? But they're based in the UK and obviously they wanted to expand or break into the Chinese market. Do you think that the experience you got leaving China, being educated in Europe, then also having this North American experience, also help set you apart in the interview process? But also have you found it an asset now that you're in the job?

Yeah, definitely. I think there's two. So one is the studying working experience I had acquired in Europe and Canada because the company is based in Europe. So definitely they need the right person which can understand their culture the way they do business. And I think also another thing very important is communication. And also thanks to my experience in North America is because we also have a civilization company which manufacturing all our equipment in United States. So they want all kinds of knowledge about culture, about the way to business. So thanks to Eric, I had those kind of experience cover the three continented Asia, Europe and North America, which helped me for communication, for management with colleagues from the whole world. That's one thing. And another thing I think Eric gave me is some entrepreneurship soft skill which is definitely as a new startup, a new company enter to a new market. It's something you have to be brave, you have to be proactive. You have been to Entrepreneurship because it's yourself set the target and make it happen. Make the products technology be commercialized in the new market. So starting from scratch I think I had go through 0 to 1 and 1 to 10. So now the next step I will do in China is to help them to set up manufacturing in China to bathe in China to be localized. Then I will go to another stage which is 10 to 100 kind of.

And what was it about EDHEC that initially drew you to the program and why did you decide to go to France in the first place?

Frankly speaking, I have never think about going to France. When I study toeflamet I always want to go to US so I always prepare for US business school but just somehow I just attend a conference, a seminar by the Education Francais, the organization which arranged all the top French business schools come to do the road show in Shanghai and I started to understand and know the program and know the school ranking is quite top in European overall. Good ranking, good major and a good design of the whole program and myself is I think because I'm Gemini so I quite open and I like new things. So I think there's a many opportunity for me to go to study in Leila campus or these campus or did a internship in Germany, that's what I did or in UK and can exchange to another country. So all those kind of things is quite attractive. Also another very important thing is about the tuition. I'm not sure what tuition level now, but at that time I think it's good value compared to us being a school.

Yeah, I think that's so important when you, I mean it's hard to remember now I'm 40 now but I can have a vague recollection of how I was selecting, you know, universities I was applying to or later the grad programs and even after that the MBA programs. And by the time I was. I was a bit older when I did my MBA and so I was a bit more, you know, thorough I think. But certainly in those when I was younger it was all about kind of the degree and what you realize is that of course the degree is very important but everything else that goes alongside of it, like you said, the culture, the other opportunities you have to experience whether it's, you know, doing study abroad or internships abroad and you know, all of that is at least as important at that time.

The admission manager is also very kind because at the same time I got several offer I think because I think the relationship for the students and the efficiency to reply my email, my Question did so well. So I feel okay, that's some school I would like to go.

Yeah. How you treat people matters in this world. That is for sure. That's for sure. Lynian, I think the work you're doing with Deep Verge is obviously incredibly important, incredibly impactful and just learning a little bit more about you and your story, I think will be just a real source of inspiration and hope for our students who, you know, not even just. I shouldn't even say that. Not just for our students, I think for anybody. And there are increasing numbers of people who really see climate change and environmental concerns as the issue of our time. And you know, we have bright, capable, motivated people in the world and they want to use their talents to something that they, you know, that they believe in and also want to make a good living. Right. Not everybody wants to, not everybody wants to work in the nonprofit sector. And I think, you know, what you're doing is a perfect example of how you can have real measurable, substantial impact on a really important cause. Yeah.

Yeah. So just want to mention another two program I sponsor or my company sponsor. One is the NGO program called Free Rental. So we rent our monitoring instruments for free to those western middle part of China because that part of citizen they have limited access to the clean water so they only rely on the ground water and also the well. So they may be polluted by contaminated from agriculture or from industrial discharge. So working with an NGO called H2O we had helping more than 2,000 sites in Middle part of China to study and to understanding the water data in those areas. And this kind of data can also help the local environmental protection bureau to help that part of citizen area to improve their water quality. So that's kind of project we are working with NGOs starting from 2019 and we are keeping doing so. In fact we are in the final list of the China's Social Impact award because of this program. Another thing I have done is Modern Water Shanghai. We sponsor University of Liverpool, their engineer Master program. At their final stage we will give them a real project assignment. Let them to do the real case in business world. So let them to help hands on to have the world, real world experience to solve the issue together. So I think it just give the students an opportunity to study, to know what they have studied and can help to solve the real world issue. So this is two programs we are currently sponsoring.

Amazing. Lynian. This has been so valuable and just really enjoyable. If people want to learn more about you or about Deep Verge. What are the best ways to connect is it Twitter?

So we have the LinkedIn you can see our company's update news and we also have the very Chinese version WeChat account so they can scan, understand and follow us. Yeah so either way is all good for me and for the company so you can add me on LinkedIn and on WeChat. So for both China and the overseas.

Students, thank you so much. This has been so interesting.

Impact around the World is an initiative of the pioneering EDEC Delegations team and EDHEC alumni. A huge thank you to my fellow country managers Patricia in California, cece in China, Nilesh in India and Joyce in Singapore for making these interviews happen. We are committed to building a community beyond the classroom for you are 46,000 alumni in over 125 different countries. Follow us on Twitter @EDech alumni or visit the alumni website at Alumni Edech Edu to find out more about how you can connect with the edech community close to you and around the world.

Thanks for listening. Sat.