7. EDHEC Associate Dean of International Relations Richard Perrin on building sustainable partnerships that respond to tomorrow's students, redefining study abroad, and the impact of COVID-19 on global mobility innovation

Hello, bonjour, ni hao, and salut. Welcome to the Impact around the World podcast. I'm Cassandra Pittman, edX Country Manager for the UK and Ireland and host of the show. Welcome back, fellow Edeckers. I wanted to give you just a brief note before we get into the episode. The Impact around the World podcast by EDEC alumni is now available on YouTube and IGTV. Who knows, maybe you're watching it there now alongside your favorite podcasting apps. However you're watching or listening, please do subscribe, share and check out the show notes at the end of the episode for full details. Okay, without further ado, Joining me to kick off season two is Richard Perem, Associate Dean of International relations here at EDEC, where he is responsible for building on EDHEC's culture of excellence around the world and developing top tier academic partnerships that respond to the needs of tomorrow's students. Under his leadership, EDEK has forged relationships with over 245 academic partnerships worldwide. Having worked with and for him for over five years, I can also tell you that he is an all around lovely human. Please enjoy my conversation with the one and only Richard Perrin. Richard, thanks for joining me.

Always a pleasure, Cassandra. Thanks for having me.

So I'm so excited to talk with you today because I really want to get your insights in how the International Relations department of EDHEC is embodying this new strategic plan and, you know, looking after, you know, impact for future generations. I feel like the work you do is so integral to the ethos and the culture and the mission of the school, but it's also not one that is as visible, you know, the work behind the scenes. So I think this will be a really interesting insight for our listeners. However, before we get into to all of that, can you just explain a little bit about how you found your way to the south of France to work with edhec?

That's a good question. Well, I've been in business education for more than 20 years now. Before joining EDHEC, I was working for HEC in Paris for 12 years. Before that I was working in New York City, your hometown, Cassandra. And I was working for Lacoste, the Crocodile at the marketing department. So to make a long story short, when Olivier Auger, who was the dean by that time at edhec, asked me if I would join this school, I said yes, of course. And he asked me if I would be happy to be either in Paris, Lille or Nice, and I chose Nice. By that time I had two children and it was a difficult Life in Paris to manage. So we were thrilled to be able to go to Nice.

And if I recall, well, what you were doing before you joined EDHEC was PR and development. So what made you decide to take on the challenge of international relations?

Well, I really wanted to be involved in the international relations, including in the other school I worked for. I started actually my career in business education by doing a tour, a study tour in the us where I had the opportunity to go to Harvard Business School, Wharton, ucla, Stanford, unc, Chapel Hill. And the idea was to understand how they are organized and how they basically work on the international, at the international level. So that was definitely something I wanted to do. But I've been more involved first to develop partnership for that school in the us and then I was appointed head of corporate communication. And that was a time where this Parisian school was really keen to make their brand more known around the world. So it was communication with a lot of international work.

So, as I mentioned before, in all of our materials, whether they be the materials that we put out to students who are looking to come to edhec or the kinds of things we write for our alumni or in a lot of our press communications, we make sure to infuse this notion that our international footprint and the international experience we deliver to the students is an integral part of the EDEC experience. Experience. Why is that so important to how we educate future leaders, do you think?

Well, I think it's central. We have today a business world that is completely integrated around the world. So we need to provide to these recruiters not only expertise, but also people who can be confronted with alterity, with complexity, with different cultures, how to cope with the team of five different nationalities. This is not something that you can improvise. You have to do it to basically understand what it's all about. So what we want to do and what we do at EDHEC is definitely having the opportunity for all the students to have this type of experience abroad. So it's mandatory at the BBA or at the master level to spend at least six months abroad, either during an internship or during a study abroad program, which means that we need to develop a lot of opportunities for them. Why? Because we have about 6,000 students in these different programs. So it means that we need to promote different options for them around the world. And we think that it's. To answer your question, we think it's even more important today. I think the world today is facing some challenges, like populism and others. So we need to broaden the horizons of our students, we need to make them cope with different culture and to understand not only how business is done in a different part of the of the world, but also how people live, how they react, and, you know, to understand the low context, high context of cultures and so forth. So yes, it's definitely a major part of the academic objective of the school.

A model that a lot of schools have. Not just French schools, French schools included, but also US schools. We look at examples like NYU are to build entire campuses, big campuses, where they can then send the students. NYU student can go from New York to the UAE to Paris to London, all within the NYU ecosystem. And that's also a model at some of the top French schools. Now, EDHEC does have small campuses where students can take some courses and some courses are delivered. But our model really isn't to have our students go to our campuses. Can you explain a little bit your vision and our ethos and why we have chosen a different path?

Our international strategy is based on three pillars. The first pillar is to compete at the international level by the rules, which means that we pay a lot of attention to accreditations, rankings, metrics, and that's very important for our brand and for our recognition around the world. The second pillar is to shine. And there is different way to shine. What we have decided to do about 10 years ago is to shine with our research activities internationally in risk and investment management in London and in the infrastructure business in Singapore. So with our facilities in Singapore and in London, we basically have an excellence in research that we use for the local business community, both for research, but also for executive education. But you can also shine by attracting top students from around the world. In Nice and in Lille. You can also shine by having top faculty in your school. And we also think that being able, as you said before, to send over 1100 students per year in different universities around the world is definitely a good way to make the EDHEC branch shine. We believe that if we had a campus, and we had tons of opportunities to do that, if we had an EDHEC campus with EDHEC faculty in Mumbai or in Buenos Aires, the experience that we would provide to the students will not be the same. We prefer them to be in small teams of French students. Sometimes we send five, six students, but they are mingled with the local students, international students. So the experience is very different. And you don't teach in the US like you teach in France. You don't teach in Brazil like you do in China. So for us, it's very important that the Students are facing with the, I would say, intercultural model, but also with a different type of teaching. And that's our strategy. And the third pillar is clearly to partner with the best schools around the world, because we believe that if the EDHEC students can both show on their resume a school like EDHEC and let's say Stanford or MIT or Saint Galen in Europe or London School of Economics, I mean, it's a huge asset for their resume and for the employability, which would be, I believe, less the case if they were going to an EDHEC campus from Lille and then an EDHEC campus in Buenos Aires.

So I don't feel like we can have this conversation at this time and not talk about how the pandemic has impacted your vision for international relations for the school, for the students, how we're adapting in this time, what you see in the next, I don't know, 6, 12, 18 months in the medium term. How have you coped?

It's been a crisis, Cassandra, with different phases. The first phase was definitely very aggressive because we had to repatriate all our students from China back in March 20. So we had about almost 100 students to repatriate as soon as possible. And then we had a second phase during the lockdown and during, I would say, the second semester, where we had to close exchange opportunities, double degree opportunities for our students. So we had to manage, of course, some sort of frustration, disappointment from the students and from their families. So that was a lot of work for the teams for us. We had also to work on case by case for the affectation of the students who were supposed to study abroad during the last semester, in the winter 2021. So we managed overall to send about 40% of our students abroad, mostly in Europe. But all the exchange programs from the us, Canada, South America, Asia were cancelled. So we didn't cancel all our departure like other schools in France and elsewhere. And the last phase has been quite difficult also because we know that the COVID is less aggressive in the Western world. But as you can see in India, it's terrible right now it's very difficult and we have a lot of exchange with India. We also recruit a lot of Indian students. So on the international relations front, I mean, it has been a huge crisis. But what can be reassuring is the fact that there is still a strong demand for international education, either for an exchange or for a full program, as you describe that.

One thing that I kept thinking is the strength, what a strength it is to still in this time, to be European and to be based in Europe. And obviously I'm coming at this in the context of being in the UK and just having left the European Union, but the fact that we were able to give 40% of the students an international experience, even in this time when the entire world was locked down, and, you know, I know that some probably were wanting an experience further afield, but if you've spent any time in Europe, you know that Amsterdam is not a whole lot like Barcelona. And there's a lot of actual cultural difference and things to be learned within the EU as well. And I just feel like that's a. It's an important point to sort of sit on to. To remember the strength of being European as well.

I agree. It has been a privilege to be able to still send students in Germany, in Italy, in Spain and so forth. So it's an asset for a school like EDHEC to have a very strong network of schools in Europe, for sure.

So I want to come on to our vision for 2025, impacting future generations, how the work of international relations fits into that. But also, as you're the only person I'm interviewing for the school also, maybe just if you could give us a really brief synopsis of what that vision is, and then maybe we can drill in a little bit more in detail of how specifically the international experience of the students fits into some of those things.

Basically, what we want to offer to the students is to have the best experience. So what does it mean? We're going to train composite managers, so leaders who would be able to have different type of competencies, and that's very important. Another pillar would be the internationalization. Of course, we want to develop new integrated programs, like the Master get, for instance, that we deliver with UC Berkeley and SKK in Seoul. We want to have more impact on international entrepreneurship and to have access to venture capitalists. So we might develop also some initiative in California beyond London and Singapore. We don't know yet if it's going to be a campus. Probably not, but we might have a physical presence in California soon. And we just signed a partnership with Skydec, which is the UC Berkeley incubator. Of course, we want to develop relevant programs during the future and specifically in the field of sustainable development. So we just started with a very sound initiative in partnership with l' Ole des Mines Paritec, which is a leading engineering school in France. And next September, we will open the first class of our MSc in Sustainable Development and Climate Change. But as far as I am concerned, in terms of international relations and international development. I think being able to develop new very attractive international programs and also having the opportunity to recruit the best international students.

A lot of our listeners will be listening to this interview remembering their international exchange programs or where they did their gap year internship and now settled wherever they've settled for the time being. What can our alumni do around the world to help the school embed this new strategic vision and specifically support our international activities?

Thanks for the question, Cassandra, because of course there are very important in this, in this strategy. Well, the first thing alumni can do is make sure that we have the right contact because without that it's very difficult. And tell me, believe me, it's sometimes a challenge. So that's key. And then if they want to be in contact with our exchange students to give advice on the culture, to give advice on the business environment and so forth, we'll be more than happy, you know, to get in touch with them. We do have some mentor sometimes in any big major cities around the world you will have EDHEC exchange students coming. So it's something we could definitely develop. It's also very important to to be aware of potential opportunities for the school locally if alumni knows about new programs, new universities, new business schools that are interesting to follow and to meet with. I am available so they can reach me by email Richard Peredec Edu and they can also give back to the school. We have been working a lot on scholarships. About 6 million euros per year are now available for scholarships based on merit and need as well. So if they want to participate in this project, it's of course very, very important. We would be able to recruit top students from their local countries if we have scholarship available. It's a very competitive market, so sometimes the students are. The candidates are choosing one school to the other based on the fees level and the scholarship available.

Okay, great. So the bottom line for that the too long didn't read was email Richard and he will tell you how you can get involved. Your inbox is going to be flooded.

Now, but I'm always pleased to see it's difficult from Nice and from any place to know all the initiatives that are going on around the world.

So Vishal, I want to close on your thoughts beyond edhec if that makes sense. So I know that you have a number of passions in your life and you've been involved in politics and other things and I've read some articles that you've written that really advocate for, for change to how we view international education in France and potentially Globally. And EDHEC is unique in how we approach this within particularly the grandeur system, but I think also in the world. And so do you have an ambition to really position edhec to make a greater change to the overall industry? And if so, what would that look like?

I strongly believe today that we need to change the way our students are basically living the international experience. I'm not saying that we need to stop sending students as an exchange student or in an internship abroad, but we need to complement that and we also need to have the ability to develop programs which gives a lot of sense of community. If I want to be provocative, if we send tomorrow student in a, I don't know, in a bank in London or in New York. I mean, it's very interesting on a professional aspect, professional level, but I want to develop more than that. And that's something that is quite optimistic because it requires a lot of work and a lot of changes inside the organization, inside edhec. But it would be very good if EDHEC is a first mover to change the way international experience is done in our schools because we all do the same. We all go through internship or a study abroad. And, and I have many other ideas.

Can you share like one with us? Can you give us a little tease, one of your ideas?

Yeah, no, but I mean, it's, it's quite, it's not obvious, but sometimes you have many students who are basically helping, you know, a village in Ghana to build a bridge. Okay, that's, that's common. I mean, but we don't, we don't validate the international experience, you know, because it has to go through credits. So, and, and there is many. If you organize tomorrow a very international, you know, event in Lille or in Nice with hundreds of people from different nationalities, does it make sense to validate the international experience? Yes. No, I don't know, but we need to talk about that. So there are different ideas like this that I want to put on the table.

Yeah, I mean, the reason that that has struck me is just because I had just been very recently reading our most recent research out of the New Gen Talent center and how fully young graduates now and our youngest alumni are, you know, embedding their own values and the impact they want to make in the world in a positive way with their decisions about a care, which doesn't mean that they all want to go work for UNESCO or an NGO or a nonprofit. In fact, most of them don't. But they want to work in organizations that allow them to have a Positive impact in the world. And it makes perfect sense that they're going to be looking for their business schools or their universities to do exactly the same.

It's a very good point. And I've been around basically for the past 20 years with interacting with students of 20, 25 years old. So I've never seen such a generation with different aspirations. Never for the. I mean, the students who are between 20 to 25 today are very different from. From the generation before. Very different. So there is a shift right now, and we need to adapt. It's a difficult business, the education. Why? Because we need to transform programs and initiatives that will have an impact three or four years after. And today, what we are thinking about for the international experience is something which would make sense for the 5, 10, 15 years to come.

Well, I think that like a lot of industries, the pandemic has accelerated the pace at which change has to happen. In the education sector, it was already coming, it was already needed. As you rightly point out, the generation is a very different generation. Their expectations are different, their desires are different. So that was already true, and now we have an acceleration of that need.

If you look at the way we teach before the pandemic, in our strategic plan, we decided to have 30% of the class online. Today, it's a different world. We need to completely adapt the way we were thinking about that before the pandemic, if you look at the international development, we had some students who were basically on an exchange program online, which means that they were in their bedroom with following courses from UNC Chapel Hill or from Fordham University in New York. And that's completely new. Does it worth it? Does it make sense? Yes or no. And so we need to basically look at all our activities with different eyes and see what the options will be for the future.

During lockdown, I acquiesced to my partner and bought an Oculus Quest 2. It's a virtual reality headset. And when he mentioned it, I was like, no, we're not having video games in the house. What do you. No, definitely not. Right. And then we got it. And I have to say, I'm really excited about what this next leap in technology is going to enable. Because I think what we learned in this pandemic when everybody had to go online for education around the world was it's not as easy as putting your class on a zoom. Right. Of course, you can do that quickly, but it doesn't give the depth of experience. But when I went fully into these virtual reality worlds, I mean, it's really cool and it's really engaging. And for everything from, from Beat Saber that I play now to exercise to different things, you can, I mean just to give you an experience, they put you on a roller coaster and then you can meet people in these virtual reality worlds. I haven't gone too far into it because I have a very demanding job as you know. But it was my first experience of what something could look like that wasn't just a two dimensional screen and how that actually might enable us to reach people in education that we haven't been able to reach before.

I mean to reach technology, give us the opportunity to reach. Does it replace human interactions? The answer is no. We all know that now.

Yes.

So yeah, I mean it's going to be a different world. We know that. And the fact that we can teach from one place. We develop an EDEC online branch a few months ago, actually probably a year or a year and a half ago. We have now 500 students for our programs fully online. So of course the market is booming. We can reach people that students that we couldn't reach before and that's of course something that complements what we already do. But sometimes they're a bit concerned that we don't want to replace the, the good thing about life and interactions.

Yeah, that's true, that's true. You need other humans to grow and be a human being. When we first had our very first night of semi easing of the lockdown here after we've been in lockdown since, well in London, since before Christmas. And the first easing was you could eat outside meeting a maximum of one other household, right? So you could meet a friend outside and eat outside. And of course everyone was outside eating at the outside restaurants. And I was saying to my friend, of course it was lovely to see her, but I was saying it's amazing how much less lonely I feel being in the company of all of these strangers who I'm not going to say a word to. But just being surrounded by other human beings felt very good to our spirit. So that I think that's something we've all learned this year.

It's who we are. I mean we will not become robots, you know, flesh and blood and that's a good thing.

Risha, this has been so much fun. If people want to learn more about you, if our alumni want to learn more about you, about international relations, should they just email you or where should they go? What are the best channels for them to follow?

Oh no, they can email me. I'm on LinkedIn as well, of course they can go online on the website, but they can email me without any problem.

Great. Well, we will put all of that information in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time.

My pleasure Cassandra. Always a pleasure to be with you.

Impact around the World is an initiative of the pioneering EDHEC Delegations team and EDHEC Alumni. A huge thank you to my fellow country managers Patricia in California, cece in China, Nilesh in India, and Joyce in Singapore for making these interviews happen. We are committed to building a community beyond the classroom for you are 46,000 alumni in over 125 different countries. Follow us on Twitter @EDech alumni or visit the alumni website at Alumni Edech. Edu to find out more about how you can connect with the EDECH community close to you and around the world. Thanks for listening.

Sa.