https://www.listennotes.com/e/758f6cc9953b427b863d4cc1324fe9b4

The next step for us is to continue taking next steps. It's to continually grow in our roles in order to grow the organization. I think I've heard my one business coach back in the day said, every organization will be capped by two things, the emotional intelligence of the leader and the person that is in the integrated role. Do they keep growing as fast as the organization and as fast as the visionary? Does the visionary continue to grow personally, emotionally, right? I know so many talented, talented people, both running law firms and in other professions that are basically putting their own cap on it because of their lack of emotional intelligence or their blind spots with them.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another season of the Rocket Fuel Podcast, where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create Rocket Fuel. I'm your host, Mark C. Winters, co-author of Rocket Fuel and an expert EOS Implementer. Today, I'm thrilled to be talking with Thomas Tona and Janira Alejczek of Tona Law, a firm in Long Island that works to serve injured New Yorkers. They pride themselves on three key things: their expertise, integrity, and results. Thomas has over 30 years of experience as a trial attorney. After founding his firm in 2001, he's developed himself as a visionary and CEO. Jenira joined the team in 2004 and serves as both Integrator and Legal Administrator for Tonal Law. In this episode, we explore the experiences and tools Jenira and Thomas used to transition their 23-year partnership into a visionary Integrator one. The two discuss the impact of therapy and EOS Masterclasses on their work dynamic and how each has stepped back and stepped up into their roles. We're jumping into the conversation with Thomas discussing how they found clarity in their partnership when they learned about the Visionary and Integrator roles. Here we go.

I would say that we were kind of naturally just fell into, we were lucky too, right? Because it's very hard to find the combination, I think, that we have, but we kind of fell into the natural roles of Visionary and Integrator without having that terminology or the crystallization. So that's why it was kind of like an aha moment when we found EOS and finally pulled the trigger on an implementer. It just felt like second nature to us.

Wow. What was kind of the trigger? So where was the first time you actually heard the terms visionary and integrator?

So I was at a mastermind, the mastermind experience in Manhattan with John Fisher's group. It's a legal mastermind. A friend of mine brought up the book Traction and I was like, Huh? What's that? So I bought the book, I'll be honest with you, the first time, three pages in, I put it down, I couldn't read it. And then as I came up with the plan for an eight-figure law firm, I was like, oh, we need a system. We need an entrepreneurial operating system. And that was kind of how I went down the road. The first time we heard about Visionary and Integrator, it wasn't defined for us in that mastermind. But I tend to look at people that are already doing what I want to be doing and like, no need to recreate the wheel. So I went down that road and then I was like, Jenir, I think we need to read this book together. We need to work on this.

Okay, so Jenir, you read the book and you see those terms and that structure and particularly the integrator one. How did you resonate with that and, you know, kind of what was your first impression?

I think it was shocking that there was a name to whatever we've been doing. and I loved it. I went from there, we took all the classes, we got Mitch as our implementer, and then joining IMF. So that was a huge thing for me. So I think doing that really, now I just, I feed everything into EOS now.

So, yeah, so kind of talk about that journey. So you went through the Integrator Masterclass and what did you take away from that experience?

I love being part of IMF. So I just hit just over the one-year mark at this this past month, just became an advanced member with it. And just being in the room with people that are doing what you're doing and hearing that people have the same issues and, you know, no matter what industry they're in, I think was eye opening for me. Cause, you know, you're just in the law firm every day and doing law related stuff. So realizing that it's not just us, it's everybody, you know, in all different aspects of business. So it's, and there's just so much knowledge in that room that, you know, I love going to the quarterlies and being around those people and I just take so much away from it every time.

It's always interesting to me how somebody from a completely different industry than you're in asking a question sometimes clears the thing up for us like, wow, how do they see it that way? How come I've never thought of it that way? And it leads you down a whole new path to kind of get you unstuck, right? Have you experienced that?

Absolutely. Yep, yes, all the time.

So Tom, she went through the masterclass, she's been a part of this Integrator Mastery Forum for a year now. And so what have you seen change over that period of time?

So at the point when Janira found IMF, it was. There was the one, one shot class first, the master class, similar to what I did back in the last one you ran for Visionaries. And at the time that she went, I'll be honest with you, we were having some conflict because they don't give you. There wasn't a tremendous amount of instruction guide as far as who does what. And even though it's laid out, what's confusing is you're not sure at what stages. Right? So when they would like let go of the vine, I literally just let go of the vine. Like, and so all of a sudden, Janira was thrust into a lot of different stuff and she was like, that's not my role. I don't think I'm supposed to do that. And so she went to the master class and it was a game changer. And Janira could tell you about her first experience with it, but she was like, well, this is what the visionary is saying. And she wanted guidance. She got the guidance she wanted. I think the amazing thing was when she came back without realizing it, she had leveled up exponentially in one, literally in one session. And so she's like, hey, they're launching a mastermind that meets quarterly. And I didn't even ask her how much it was. I was like, sign up. Which is very unlike me. I saw so much value in such an exponential leveling up. that it was a no-brainer. It really was a no-brainer. Well, I love hearing that.

And, you know, it's all about mastery, right? We want to be sure we're showing both the visionary and the integrator what great looks like, and then, you know, give you a path to kind of get started on that journey, which of course the journey never ends, right? We're always trying to get better and learn. And so, Tom, you were at the Visionary Master Class in San Diego, is that right? Yes, yes.

Likewise, what was kind of your biggest takeaway from that experience? So I've always been kind of a mastermind junkie in the legal space. And I chose EOS specifically. I did not want a legal specific operating system. I wanted one that applies to all businesses. Attending the Visionary Masterclass was a game changer, to be honest with you. I came back and I was trying to explain to somebody else on a podcast. I'm like, I finally figured out who I am and I'm comfortable in my own skin at 55. and the realization was that I am a serial entrepreneur and a lot of people debate the pros and cons of that, but it really spoke to me being in a room with many people with that, I call it the broken brain syndrome, where we have that shiny object thing or undiagnosed ADD, whatever you want to call it, but it was a game changer being in that room and figuring out different facets of myself and like that self-awareness coming back It was a game changer. It really was.

It was a very fun day. We had a really good time. So that's great to hear that you got that much out of it. So let's kind of come back to the Visionary Integrator structure. And one of the things that is really a top responsibility for the integrator is creating accountability in the organization, right? So I've worked with a number of law firms over the years. and so, Jenere, I've got a question for you. So what's it like trying to create accountability in a law firm when you're not a lawyer?

I think for me personally, it's probably easier. I would think maybe than some other people. When we started, it was just Tom and I. Yep. You know, we've grown into what it is now. We have almost 40 employees, and I was in the legal space for so many years before doing the role I'm doing. So I moved up from legal systems, a paralegal to, you know, the office manager to legal administrator, so. I think people coming in knowing that I've been here and they can see that I've done every seat here other than the attorney seat, obviously. But I've done all the other seats. I think people are okay with, you know, when I'm leading meetings and doing stuff and they're okay following me or, you know, taking my lead, I should say. So I think for me, I'm lucky in that sense that I've been able to do my job and do it well with people, you know, that are willing to go with me on the journey. I'm also part of Association of Legal Administrators.

Right.

So I'm the vice president of the Long Island chapter. So I see there where the people have a lot of struggles because they don't get the people that will file them. They've never done the roles, they've only been in HR or in operations, so they have more trouble. And I don't think I've had that.

So I think I'm very lucky in that sense. Yeah, it's interesting. One of the questions that we'll get a lot when somebody's searching for an integrator in whatever kind of business is they're like, well, we need somebody that knows our industry. We need somebody that knows, you know, our business, knows what we do. And what I see in practice is, eh, maybe. It's really the thing that's the big thing that you're looking for is somebody who's a master of the craft, right? So just like having a great accountant or having a great salesperson or a great, you know, whatever. You know, there's something to that integrator craft and being great at that that's adaptable across a lot of different, 'cause really what it's about is dealing with people. And so you kind of weigh those and if those things kind of even out and they have industry experience or no people in the industry or whatever, then maybe that's a nice to have or a thing that adds on top. But Tom, I'm curious from your perspective, I'm going to guess to help Jenira be effective, a lot of that is you. It's you kind of demonstrating that you trust her, demonstrating that you two are on the same page, communicating that to the firm. so that you sort of set her up to be successful versus if you were doing kind of the opposite of that, then everybody else kind of jumps on board and starts questioning things and all that. So talk to me about how you are intentional about setting that kind of a positive, supportive tone to help your integrator be successful.

I started out years ago with just empowering, right? Empowering Genera and my leadership team. and making it clear that anybody that's on the leadership team has full autonomy and empowerment, with the only exception being on legal decisions and ethics decisions, right? Because that's unique to the legal field and it's a license that's at stake. So the lawyers are the only ones that can make a final call on anything strategy wise, legal wise or otherwise. But sure, Jennera runs meetings in personal injury in no fault. I run those meetings, obviously, but so does Jennera and so does another non-attorney on my team. they have a deep knowledge and understanding. So letting go with a vine really wasn't that much of a challenge for the time you're talking to now. If you talk to me 20 years ago, different story, right?

Tell us that story, right? So how did you go from that time to this time?

It was a process, right? So we always joke around with the acronym of PTSD, it's post time stress disorder. Janira and a lot of my leaders will were, were at the beginning of EOS, they were reacting the same as they would have to the time of 20 years ago. And I would say, listen, I'm not the same Tom. And the process for me included therapy, coaching, probably five or six different coaches over the years. And so that process or evolution is, look, if you want to grow to this size business, this scale business, you need to let go. You need to trust. You need to be emotionally intelligent. And so I worked on acquiring the skills and the attributes that you need to be emotionally intelligent, to be authoritative, and to be trusting.

Right?

So, and I'm surrounded, like, it's just a blessing to have an integrator like Janira. She's amazing. And my entire leadership team, they're really, really strong. empowered people. And I just always put out the messaging like, look, I don't make the final decisions on a lot of this stuff. What they say is the final decision.

So setting a little context for the audience, how big is the firm, number of folks, however you think about size right now?

So we have 25 domestic team members and then a team of 15 overseas in the Philippines. and we're growing in a controlled way and drilling down seat by seat, right person, right seat. And that has been transformation.

How big is your leadership team?

So team of five and there'll be another person coming on who is my lead trial attorney and basically he's going to be running the personal injury silo. So he'll be coming on once he completes his 90 days.

Janier, how's he doing on the numbers? You sound right.

Yes, yep.

So from your perspective, how is he doing in that whole setting a positive tone to give you the best chance to be successful in your integrator role? Tell me about your, I mean, it sounds like it's an evolution, right? So it started in one place and it's kind of gotten to where it is now. What's something that he does that really makes a difference in terms of allowing you to have the best chance for success in the integrator role?

I think he's very good. Like he won't address the people when they come to him. So if somebody goes to him for something, he will tell them, why are you talking to me? Talk to Janine. Why are you asking me, ask Janine? Or even if we're in meetings where he's in the room and he's in the meeting with us and somebody will say something or I'll say something and they'll look at him, he goes, on her way looking at me, she makes the decision. Whatever she says is the decision. So, you know, him doing that a.

Lot in front of the team, you know, then they know, okay, so then they just stop. They stop going to Tom. They just come to me. Love it. Yep. Those are end runs and that's exactly how we stop them. So I love hearing that. so talk to me about how the two of you stay on the same page. So what is it that you do intentionally and tell me literally mechanically how you do it?

So we do our same page views. We just had one this morning. They're on Mondays. We didn't know about them in the beginning of when we started EOS. I actually found out about them through one of the IMF classes I was in. And I came back and said, we're not doing these, we gotta do them. So I think that's been transformational for us because now we have dedicated time We do a lot of stuff separately. Like we'll talk all the time. We both go to lunches and we'll be able to talk about work and stuff like that. But sitting down, we just have the designated time where we're hitting the issues list and stuff like that. It's been, I think, transformational because we're getting so much done in a short amount of time. It's really just action steps, basically.

And then I'm just going out and continuing stuff.

How often do you have those? Every Monday. And how long are they? They can range right between maybe now.

And a half, two hours or so, depending. Something a little longer, something a little shorter. Do you ever find yourself in a meeting, even though you're doing that discipline, do you occasionally find yourself in a meeting where you realize, oh, we're not on the same page on this? Does that happen?

Not really. I mean, I will tell you that something we did that was an incredible, incredible thing that I would recommend to anybody who's in the process of either figuring it out with their new integrator or whatever. We went to therapy together because we both have very strong personalities. And when I tell you very strong, like the clashes we used to have were insanely charged emotionally. And so I was like, look, this isn't going to work. We both know this isn't working. And I have unmet needs. You have unmet needs. Let's go to therapy, which sounded insane at the time. Everybody still talks about it like we're crazy, right?

Whose idea was it, Tom? Was it yours?

It was my idea because I had done therapy personally for, you know, on and off for years. And then I did a two-year stretch where I was like, I need certain things to be different in order to get to where I want to go in life. Right? So and I stuck with it and made a bunch of paradigm shifts. And hopefully I acquired a lot of emotional intelligence and, you know, all of that. So when I realized that we kept doing the same insane things over and over communication wise to each other, We just, I said, Jay, let's just go. We gotta figure this out. I don't wanna hire somebody else. You don't wanna work under somebody else. Let's figure this out. We went to a industrial psych therapist. She's got a big background in finance and industry. And she was really, really effective. So we went a couple of times ourselves. Then Janira went through it, then I went through it, and then we came back together. And after about 18 months, Our entire relationship changed. So we do share one brain. We're often finishing each other's sentences. And I kind of liken it to like, this is what it feels like to be happily married. I'm happily married. We have great rapport. That doesn't mean we get along all the time, but we're at a point where we can go, you know, you kind of getting on my nerves today. Why don't we get some distance from each other? Go work remote or she'll tell me, Tom, you're kind of crunchy. You need a trip to the mountains. Go hiking.

You know?

Yeah.

And I think even if we ever start, even now if we're at a point where we have something we're not disagreeing on, I think going through that process and where we're at now, we don't end that way because we may not agree somewhere, but we are so vulnerable now with each other and we talk everything out, and we always end up in the same agreement by the time it's over.

So, Genera, when he first recommended that we go to therapy together, tell me honestly, your initial reaction was what?

I probably thought he was crazy. And even going for a while when I was going on my own, You know, him and the therapist both kept saying, I wasn't buying into it. Like, you're just coming, you're wasting time. It's something I'd never done before, so it was all new to me. But at the end, I mean, I.

Can see the changes not only here, but I could see them on the personal side too. So talk about that. So, you know, you're resistant. A lot of people are in the beginning, right? You kind of go along, but you're still not convinced. So I'm guessing there was something that happened. There was some event, some, something that you got into, whatever. that kind of is like, okay, maybe there is something here. Do you remember what that was? Probably it was the day we were.

All in the room together and they were both telling me that I wasn't buying it. I guess I didn't really realize I wasn't. So when they were both saying it in my head, I'm going, okay, well now I clearly have to do something because I do love my job, I do love where I work, and I don't want to have a change made.

So I just stepped into it and that was it. Did the team notice a change after.

You all went through that?

Oh yeah, I think so.

How would they describe it?

I think positive for sure. Because I think, like Tom said, we're both very strong personalities. You know, someone would have certain things that would be sometimes in front of the team. You know, that type of stuff doesn't happen now. It doesn't happen in general now. But even if something were to come up, it's usually going to be in our same page meeting where we're just talking more through stuff and that type of thing.

Tom, what is Genera superpower?

I would have to say execution and delegation. So I can come up with a thousand ideas, but if you ask me to execute on anything, nothing will get done, right? I know that about myself. And so her superpower, and the funny thing is, like we do personality assessments and Jeanine is taking more personality assessments than any one person ever would, but she's got a very similar personality to me. and so my trust coupled with the fact that she knows her role so well, her ability to execute. And when I say flawlessly, I mean, it's as if I did it. But again, I got lucky in the regard of how many Visionary integrators come to you out of the box with 23 years together. Right? So I've been very blessed in that regard. Very blessed in that regard. And so her superpower is. by far and away, she's fantastic. She gets the jobs done that needs to get done.

So it's interesting, as I think about the history that you have kind of pre the VI structure, it's a strength for you. That's how you see it, right? But I'll bet you there are people that might make it more difficult. Just because of the inertia, the momentum, it was always a certain way and just kind of the legacy thing. So that's really cool to see how the thing that you've taken from it is the trust. all the shared experiences along the way has built that trust foundation. Am I hearing that right?

Yep.

So, Tom, the next question is what is Jenira's kryptonite?

I'd have to say she has a fear of numbers. So we just had a conversation today because we always joke around like, I'm a numbers person and I live and die, I love data, I love numbers. And I'd be like, look, you own that P&L, right? Like we got to do certain metrics and certain KPIs every month that we need to know. And I know that just the calculator and numbers, they spur a fear in her, which she's been trained. She's taken deep training for law firm economics, all of that. I just know that she sometimes, I think her kryptonite is her mental resistance to it, because I know she could pick it up. She's had the training and she understands it all. And when we go through the numbers together, we're always on the same page. So I just think in her mind, she's built it up so long that that I would probably say would be a kryptonite.

Very interesting. So like we're playing the newlywed game, Jennera, would he have gotten that right? Is that what you would have said?

Yeah, I think so.

So let's flip the wheel around now. So it's the other players turn. And what do you see as Tom's superpower?

I would say it's kind of hard to pick a rule one. I would say the two that come to mind are going to be just a fantastic business person.

What does that mean?

Just running businesses like I guess because he's a visionary, he always has these ideas and when there's issues, like he just thinks outside the box all the time. So something might come up and the leadership team might go through a couple things and he comes in and he's like, why don't we just do this? It's like, oh, why didn't we think of that? You know what I mean? So like, and again, like the way he looks at the numbers, the way he looks at everything when it comes.

To business, just is the reason why we're so successful.

So I think that it just his people skills. That was the second thing, was the people skills? Yeah, because he's been an attorney so.

Long, I mean, he can just read people.

Like nothing I've ever seen before.

So would you generally say, and this is kind of question to both of you, do attorneys generally have good people skills?

No.

No.

I don't think so. No.

Which is why I think we're finding things, it's like the lights going off more and more. I mean, it's funny because I disagree with one thing she said. She's the reason why we're so successful. I 100% say all the time, like, no engineer and no firm. That's it. Like, I just be a guy with a bunch of ideas and completely disorganized and nothing executed on. But she did get right. I am a numbers person, and I think one of my own things, I don't know if it's because of my exposure to litigation for so long, I can read people in every conversation. So. But generally, no. I think a lot of law firms are run. very poorly, because they don't teach you any of the skills that we learned with EOS or the other coaching that we've done over 15 years. They don't teach you that in law school. So people think, I'm a good attorney, I'm going to hang out a shingle. So you're creating a job for yourself. You're not creating a business. And not a lot of attorneys are self-aware. So there are people that throw things in the office. There are people that scream at people and micromanage people. and they're basically driving their firms into the dirt every day.

So, Genera, an equal opportunity questioner here. What's Tom's kryptonite? What's the thing again where he, maybe he should be working on it or not, maybe he just kind of gets sucked into it, but what's the thing that when he gets into that or he just gets stuck, it's just a kryptonite thing, doesn't work well?

I think when he thinks of ideas, he just goes 100% in. So like have a great idea and when Tommy comes to me, it's like I already, he might think of like doing this some kind of business over the weekend. I'll come in on Monday, but I formed another corporation and this is what we're doing. And there's no time to plan it or figure it out or even decide if it's a good idea or anything like that. So he just moves so quickly. Like he makes a decision and he just goes with it. There's no looking back or anything.

Tom, is that what you would have said? I think it's a pretty fair assessment.

Yeah.

I mean, I definitely have to slow down my, decision making. And I finally came up with a concept of, like, a parking lot for ideas, right, where maybe it's not going to happen this quarter, maybe it'll happen next quarter or never.

Right.

And so start to let Jenira do the breaking mechanism that I've given her full bandwidth to apply as long as also with my leadership team. Yeah, I would agree that I do have this. It's probably undiagnosed ADD where I'm just. constantly in motion.

Yeah, well, you're definitely not alone in the visionary world with that. And it's not a, you know, that's a superpower, right? So in itself, because that allows you to unlock and do, you know, all the things that you do do. Well, it's funny, because I know that.

He, like, a visionary is not supposed to get rocks. His quote unquote rock is not really a rock, but what we gave him this quarter was no new initiatives. He wasn't allowed to do anything new.

I'm gonna guess he failed. Did he?

He did.

I did.

How predictable is that? Come on.

Right.

You see that coming. But I love, Tom, your coping tool there. I mean, it really is that same page. And it's like, okay, let's get it. Most visionaries have this fear of, I'm gonna lose, this is a great idea. And if it doesn't go somewhere, we're gonna lose it. You can't just not do this or we're gonna lose it. And so having the compartmentalization that we talk about where it goes, either stays on your same page issues list or it goes on the VTO issues list or it goes somewhere so that it's not gone and you can still see it, which makes you feel good. And then when the time's right, if the time's right, then you can kind of make it more tangible, more real and kind of make it move forward to help you do whatever it is that you're trying to do. So where do you think you still struggle? What's the next hill to climb in your VI relationship? What's the thing you've long-standing relationship? You know, we began the EOS journey, got into the visionary integrator structure, you've invested, you've worked hard with training, with the, you know, the joint therapy and all these kinds of things to get you to where you are today. But, you know, we never stop. We're always getting better, we're getting worse. What's the next hill you want to climb in terms of the power of.

Your visionary integrator relationship? That's a good question. That's a good question. I mean, our first step, I would say, is we're going to be going down to the VI duo. Yeah. In Dallas together.

So.

Yeah, so just for our listeners, so.

They hear, obviously, you know, but it's interesting when you were describing your therapy thing, you know, it's, we're not doing therapy, but we're gonna bring you together and do some work with you, we're gonna take you apart and do some work with you, and we're gonna bring you back together and do some work with you. So it's the same idea, right? It's about strengthening that, the relationship of the duo itself. So I'm tickled that you're gonna be there for that.

That'll be a great. Yeah, I think to answer your question pointedly, that the next step for us is to continue taking next steps. It's to continually grow in our roles in order to grow the organization. I think I've heard my one business coach back in the day said, every organization will be capped by two things, the emotional intelligence of the leader and the person that is in the integrated role.

Right?

Do they keep growing as fast as the organization and as fast as the visionary? And does the visionary continue to grow personally, emotionally, right? I know so many talented, talented people, both running law firms and in other professions that are basically putting their own cap on it because of their lack of emotional intelligence or their blind spots with it, right? So I'm constantly, I know my flaws. My flaws are plenty, and the more self-aware I become and the more I definitely it definitely keeps me humble, but I definitely think our next steps are to keep planning our next steps. We sit down and we're constantly pinpointing different masterminds to attend both inside EOS and outside EOS. And yeah, when you guys do those those different forums, for me, I'm looking at them. I'm looking at one, how to be a great boss. But I don't like virtual, so I am going to be the guy that's going to wait till I find the local one, or a one that I can get on. I like getting on planes because that allows my brain bandwidth to just think.

Wow. So that's a big thing for you. That travel time is a good clarity space for you. Do you feel the same way, Janera? You use it that same way?

Yeah. And I'm in agreement too. I love the in-person stuff. I don't feel like you get the same from a virtual that you do when you're sitting with people in a room. It's just different.

Interesting. Love hearing that. So interesting how different people, we all learn differently, right? And so it's about finding that combination, that recipe that's effective for you and seeking that out. All right, so nuggets time. So, you know, we got a bunch of visionaries and integrators and people that are trying to figure it all out listening today. And so, you know, you've been working together all this time. If you, you know, you could tell them one thing, one nugget. that you wish somebody had told you way back when, what would you tell them?

I think communication is everything. We talk about everything. And again, being vulnerable with each other and having the trust, I think that makes a difference in the relationship.

Love that, Tom.

Yeah, I think one of the epiphanies that we've had recently is that one of the keys to letting go of the vine is making sure you got the right people in the right seats that you can let go of the vine. So for both Janira and I, and the biggest epiphany I had is if I'm looking to replace myself as the lead attorney, I'm not going to get that for a price tag that's not commensurate with what value I can create. So you really got to get over that fear and get over that sticker shock and say, well, look, if I really am truly looking to replace myself, then I got to make sure that I have alignment with what that's going to take and then put that commensurate price tag with it. Does that make sense?

It does. It does. I mean, it's about, well, it's an investment in terms of your, your organization and the capacity there. And, and then, you know, one of my early mentors would always say, you're always charging what you truly believe you're worth, which, again, is about confidence and people believing in you and you believing that they believe in you and, and all that stuff, so.

Right.

It's all wrapped up in there. Wonderful. So before we wrap up here, I'd love to, you know, you've given all this wisdom for people to learn and grow, and I'd love for you to share with them if somebody wants to find out more about your firm, somebody wants to find out more or get in touch with either one of you, what's the best way for them to do that?

So our website is www.tonalaw.com, or they can email Tom or I, and it's thomastona@tonalaw.com or JA@tonalaw.com.

Great. We'll try to get those details in the show notes. So, Tom Janiero, you have my tremendous gratitude for taking some time to spend with us today. I love learning about you and I know that our listeners are pulling some lessons out of there. And that's the whole idea behind this podcast is let's learn from each other. We really don't have to all make all the same mistakes. So if we can, Let's make our some of them, but then let's learn from each other and kind of maybe avoid those potholes and maybe even get there a little bit faster. So I know that the listeners have learned from you today and to our listeners, as always, thanks for listening. Hopefully you got something really helpful to you out of this episode. And if you liked this podcast, please leave us a review, tell some people about, that's how more people find out about us. And that way we can have an even bigger impact, help some more people. Wow, what another fantastic conversation with Tom and Genera. So appreciative for them sharing stories about their journey and how long they've known each other and how that's impacted the growth of their relationship. So now let's go to the Rocket Fuel Toolbox. And there are a couple of things that jumped out for me on this one. Number one was how clearly Genera and Tom spoke about a behavior that Tom had adopted to help make Genera more successful. and it was stopping end runs. And we call it the question, you know, so when someone would ask him to make a decision, give direction, you know, he would just instinctively turn it back to her. No, you have to talk to Genera. No, that's Genera's decision. He would just push him back. And if you'll recall, the question that we teach is, you know, you might listen and it's fine to listen and hear what people are telling you. But when they come to that point where they're really asking for a decision or direction, you've got to employ the question which says, are you gonna tell them or am I gonna tell them? 'Cause somebody's gotta tell them. So in this case, are you gonna tell Genera or am I gonna tell Genera? 'Cause somebody's gotta tell Genera because that's her decision, right? And it works like magic. Within 30 days, you'll put an end to those end runs in your organization. Second thing that jumped out, I was asking about the next hill they wanna climb. And he said, you know, frankly, it's the commitment to just taking, keep taking next steps. and talked about how things keep changing. And you can tell that they understand this concept of mastery. And it brought me back to the three piece puzzle, right? So we've got the visionary puzzle piece, the integrator puzzle piece, and then the business puzzle piece, all clicking in, all fitting together as well as we can make them. But the visualization I want you to take from that is that's all moving all the time. It's not static. So the business isn't staying in one place. Your business is growing and moving over time, and your visionary is growing and moving over time, and your integrator is and moving over time. So we all have to keep growing. We all have to keep getting better and we all have to continue to master our craft and learn and develop and challenge ourselves. And as he said, you know, commit to keep taking those next steps, whatever they are, whatever the right thing is for you. So those were the two things that jumped out for me for the toolbox. So reminder, you know, if you haven't already, please go to rocketfueluniversity.com and Take the Visionary Integrator assessments, the Crystallizer assessments, get your scores, help you understand if this is something that can help you, how you fit in, if you fit into this structure and want to learn more, lots of resources for you there and lots of different pathways for you to go down the road and keep growing. Be a part of our community of visionaries and integrators out there trying to help entrepreneurial companies get more of whatever it is that they want and have the impact that they can have on the world because we really believe that entrepreneurs make all the difference. So that's it for this episode. So until next time, go Rocket. Thank you for joining me today for another inspiring story. Are you an integrator? Are you ready to begin your journey to integrator mastery? Visit Rocket Rocketfueluniversity.com to join the free rocket fuel community and learn how to register for an upcoming integrator master class. Hey integrators, if you're looking to hone your skills and execute at a higher level, attend an upcoming integrator master class. Available as in-person and virtual formats, this course will help you maximize your relationship with your visionary and lead more effectively. Visit Rocketfueluniversity.com to learn more.