Chris Thornley: The Story Behind Squirrel’s Nut Butter: Funny Name, Serious Lube

Whatever of Live from Dream Run Camp. We are in full monsoon season here, creeping toward the end of July. We got a good dump with thunder and lightning today, but it didn't stop this crowd from turning out. Thank you everyone for being here. Thank you, Lauren, as always yawning behind the others Behind the camera. Yeah, more sleep for Lauren, hopefully. And so we have the college wave is like still halfway still going. Got Tyler and David over here, college runners living their best life. We're into things that rhyme, what names of dream runners who rhyme with Myler. So we got Tyler over here, we got Skyler over here. I have another Tyler coming in October. What else is there? Like a name that rhymes with— can't think of any. Yeah, all right, that's it. Skyler's and Tyler's. So my guest this evening is a gentleman by the name —of Chris.

Easy. Chris Thornley.

Yes, Chris Thornley. Welcome.

Thank you.

Right on. I meant to grab a prop, and the prop was going to be a stick of squirrel's nut butter. Got lost in the chaos. But what is squirrel's nut butter?

A concoction of 4 natural ingredients. Our green label is coconut oil, cocoa butter, beeswax, and vitamin E. Originally created for moisturizing the skin for eczema, and later discovered by a gentleman named Squirrel that it's amazing as an anti-chafe. Used to own a tree service, and one of my climbers I had nicknamed Squirrel. He decided to use it as a chamois butter for mountain biking. And so that's pretty amazing.

So, but squirrel does not rhyme with Mylar. No.

Is that going to be a problem?

I'm sure, sure we can get past it. But yeah, so squirrel.

Yeah, Brian Marshall lives here in Flagstaff. Right on. So it's a great mountain biker nickname. Yep.

Yeah, so I've never known anyone with the actual last, like, legal last name.

No, no, he's an amazing tree climber and just, he reminded me of a squirrel in the canopy and so I nicknamed him Squirrel. Yeah, kind of crazy, right? No intention of starting an anti-chafe company or— yeah, certainly not, uh, a global brand.. And so, yeah, just a very unique organic name.

And here we are.

Yes, I no longer do the tree service. Right on.

Okay.

Just make lube. Human lube.

Okay.

Day after day.

I was going to save that after dark. Awkward pause.

We're just going to do a station break and Talk to our lawyers. Should we introduce the dog in the back?

You are going to fit in real nice here, Chris.

Cujo in the back here. Yeah, yeah.

Cujo. Yes. Yes. I'm curious, like, see, you know, like these 4 natural ingredients that are like kind of the DNA of your product. But how do you see it? You know, it's like you basically created this thing and it's your creation. And do you, do you view that like that DNA or essence of it is like, that's our Coke, that's our Coke formula, like that, that, that is what we do and it is what we will always do. Or is it like, oh, I'm trying to like optimize anti-chafing functionality in the products I create and therefore I'm willing to evolve and like Maybe we started with these 4 natural ingredients, but that's not necessarily where we'll end.

So it actually started with more ingredients, more essential oils, and another carrier oil, almond oil. And that was actually the, the, a great accident when I gave some product to Squirrel to give to his partner for her dry skin. She was allergic to nuts. And the almond oil in there just made that container, that tin, go into the medicine cabinet. Squirrel ran out of his normal anti-chafe for mountain biking and decided he would use it. We have since eliminated in our green labels all essential oils and any— that almond oil is out so that people with allergies or since skin sensitivities, they can use our product. You know, they could be 85 miles into a 100-miler and just simply use our, our product at an aid station and not have it and go into anaphylactic shock or something. So we completely just minimized it. And some people are like, yeah, kind of smells weird, or how come it doesn't have a scent? And there's a reason for that. And we are also expanding to add some scents We have some of our products, our saddle butter and our Happy Toes. We add tea tree oil and peppermint oil in those. And we have some other things coming down the road. Right on. Okay. So yeah, we're a super small team. So there's a lot to do. We wear a lot of hats. And we make everything here in Flagstaff. It's not outsourced. So we manufacture it all right here.

Yeah, I think Flagstaff boosterism might be a theme. Uh, uh, so yeah, on a scale of 1 to 10, how good is Flagstaff in your estimation?

Um, I, I think it's a 10. Um, if it had a river, it would be a 9 or an 8 because it would be way more populated. Yeah. So the no river running through town with the kayak park, you know, good take. I'm just trying to paint a nice picture. I wish there was a river running right through it. I could just kayak after work, but Yes, no river. Yeah, alas. No, I like Flagstaff. I moved here from Northern California, went to Humboldt up in Arcata and came down here. Actually, my brother was a software engineer for Motorola in Tempe and came down here to be near him and also the dry climate. I loved the dry climate. Did you say your brother? Amazing. Yep. Craig Thornley. Yeah. Okay, keep going. So that, that's how I ended up here, and absolutely love it. It's a great hub of diversity from, you know, Sedona being so close, or, you know, Red Rocks, or Yosemite is only 9, 10 hours away. Um, I, I love it.

I just wanted to linger a bit on the, like, moving here to be close to your brother. Because like, I have two brothers, they're, you know, I have two siblings, two brothers, and like, we have variously moved places to be close to each other. Yeah. So that, that's a thing. It's kind of a wonderful thing, right?

It's a great thing. Yeah. We were climbing a lot together back then. He's now in Auburn. He's a Western States race director, so he has to be in Auburn. And but he really is— his home is, uh, Eugene, Oregon. That's where he went to college and attempted to run for them but couldn't quite make the team. They're fast.

We came from a very— not that—

we came from a very small high school, so he, he was, uh, he won a lot of races competing against other small high schools, and then found out that there's a, there's a lot out there.

Another level. Yes. Yeah. So I want to remind everyone or tell everyone who hasn't been at Dream Run Camp live before that anyone present or watching live is welcome to fire a question at Chris, who is a wonderful guy, even though his name does not rhyme. With Eyler. Myler. Yes. Yeah. So like, you know, so you brought up your brother and I chose to linger on it. So rewind, you know, where are you from and what was like your early life like?

So I was born in San Jose, California, in the Bay Area, South Bay. Early on, I think maybe I was a into kindergarten, moved to Cool, California. My stepfather got a job in Sacramento, so we moved the family out there. And, uh, man, what an amazing place to be a kid back then in the late '70s and '80s. Why'd they call it Cool? Um, I don't know where that name came from, but it is C-O-O-L.

Is it close to Weed, California?

It is, yeah, a little south of Weed. Good one. And, you know, we grew up on the Western States Trail, grew up with the Western States Race. And so my family was very much integrated in the race as a volunteer of some sort, aid stations or whatever, for years. And then eventually Craig became the director. But yeah, we— man, I wouldn't— I was just It's really changed now, obviously, population. But that was an amazing place to be a kid, I will say. Lots of freedom. Yep. No cell phones back then, obviously. Yes.

Yeah.

No, it's a different life. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. I know. I know that part of the world not as well as you do, but yeah. So, like, why aren't you there right now?

Well, when I went to Humboldt, um, I definitely— I, I traveled the western U.S. climbing for about 6 months, uh, looking for a place to land. Uh, Bend, Oregon felt great. Flagstaff felt great. And also Boulder. The usual list. Yeah, exactly. It is, it is the usual list. But Flagstaff just felt— again, I was— I really— the climbing around here is amazing. It suits my my style of climbing and the limestone rock. And, uh, and then being close to Craig, it was great just to have a— be able to climb together a lot. And then he— and then he moved back to Eugene and then back down to Auburn. Yeah.

Do you happen to know Ryan Whited? I don't. Okay. Yeah, he's, uh, he's a local guy, climber, like moved here for climbing. Um, he's a strength coach at Paragon Athletics. Okay.

Yes, yes. Yep. Okay.

I know.

I just have never worked underneath him. Yeah, but I hear I should.

I hear he should train me. He's really good. Yeah, he really is. I mean, that's why he's part of our team. Yeah. Um, but, uh, very similar story. It, you know, just like he's like, you know, I could— I mean, actually similar to me, like you know, I could live in any number of places, like, but I'm going to choose a particular place that, like, no place is perfect, right? But like, sure, a place that checks a lot of boxes. Yeah.

And back when I ran, um, you know, the Grand Canyon is just ridiculous. It's a magnet and it feels like home when I'm in it. And now I'm drawn to the river, going down on the river, but the Grand Canyon is It is just amazing, just amazing. Never gets old.

You said back when you ran. Yes.

My ears perked up. So Craig was a big runner in the family, and so I also started running early. Fifth grade, I could run 20 miles in a day and just kind of went from there. My My folks didn't want— they held me off on running a marathon on the road, but it was okay in training on dirt. But yeah, so I ran competitively track, cross country, super slow, never broke the 4-minute or the 5-minute mile. Got 5 flat, still haunts me. Oh man. But I did break 3 hours in the marathon in high school. And I ran my first 50-miler in high school my senior year.

You were a unicorn back then.

Is that a compliment? Is that a powerhouse?

And then during this— animal? No, an unusual animal. Yeah, I'm just like, you know, it's like that is becoming more common. Like, I'm assuming you're older than 25.

I'm a little bit older than—

Yeah, so like, so this is like, this is a while ago. Yes. When you were very young doing these things, like how many other people did you know your age who were doing this? They weren't. Yes, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, they weren't doing, they weren't doing that. Yes. So, but it suited me. Um, I enjoyed the competition, I enjoyed the training with track and cross-country and the team and everything, but But I really like just going through the woods and walking and running and doing whatever I feel like.

But why did you even think that was possible for you? Like, you know, for some people it's like, it's not possible for me unless I'm seeing other people I can relate to doing it. Like, you did something that none of your peers were doing.

And I have no idea, but because Craig was still just focused on running really fast, trying to qualify in the marathon. Never quite did, but he was very, very fast. And I just happened to, uh, you know, uh, growing up, seeing people running Western States was definitely very, very powerful for me. And, uh, turns out I just like that kind of adventure. Not that I can go that fast, but I just like being wasted in the woods. Whether you have a watch or not.

Mm-hmm. Don't rub your nose then.

Are we having technical difficulties?

No, no, we're fine. Yeah. No, I just like I thought I had a question. Yeah.

Yeah.

David has one. Yeah.

So you talk about—

you talk about your— like you have a very small team that you work with.

Yes.

What was the process like getting your team together, and is there a reason you have it that way?

That is an amazing question. Yes, this guy answered it, or you asked it. Um, you might be the first person to ask me that exactly, and it's a very unique style that I have, uh, running a business, which which is basically winging it. Okay. Um, I would bring people on board, uh, if our personalities aligned, and then it was like, what can you do to help me grow this brand? Um, it wasn't until like literally this year that we actually hired people on our team for a specific reason before we knew them. And so our growth has been amazing without real structure, real business structure with a marketing and sales team. We never had that until this year. It's all organic growth. It's all accounts approaching me, international distributors approaching me. I've said this many million times in my story, but REI approached me I was still in the house and asked if it would be okay to sell our product in their stores. I was like, yeah, we'll see what we can do. Let me talk to my lawyers. No, it was, uh, I was incredibly nervous talking to REI, and I let them know I'm nervous. I'm a tree guy, and, you know, like, talk, uh, at a third grade level with the business stuff because I don't, I don't know. Like, they were at a whole nother level talking REI, and like, I don't know, I climb trees. I make really good lube. I just don't know the business part. Like, I, I know the lube is really good, and the intention of making that product is— Lauren, can you turn the lights down? It's— the intention is to, to help, uh, skin, and that can actually be, um, you know, make somebody's life better depending on their condition, maybe from an amputation, now they're wearing a prosthetic. So that silicone anaerobic area on the stump is very tricky to try to keep non-irritated. So in the— my goal in the future is to somehow be able to provide our product at no cost in third world countries to starting out with children with prosthetics because it really does— it can change the quality of life. That's pretty important to me right now. We just market, you know, first world people choosing to run and stuff like— and that's great because that's my community and I feel part of it. It's great. I just like for the, the quality to really reach the bottom of my heart. It's, it's helping the third world countries because it's really amazing. That's really cool. I think that's what I'm told. Your drive.

For the business is just because you love what you're doing. And you've surrounded yourself with people who are able to put that at another level, right? Like you have a legal team that was talking with the other guy. It's like, talk to me at a third grade level, but make sure these people tell me what they're actually getting at.

That's really cool. Yeah, and I've said this right from the beginning, you know, I don't— my skill set is not running a business or growing a brand, but it's building community. I feel like that's what I can do well. So it's working and the community is absolutely helping the brand awareness around the globe. That's awesome. Yeah, it's pretty fun. It's a lot of work. Giving it everything I have.

Wow, I can relate to so much of that. Yeah, yeah, even like the, the, or leadership or entrepreneurial style. I feel very accidental in my role with Dream Run Camp. It's like I did not set out to start any, any type of business and And I do trust my gut and I have strong— like we got Lauren over there on the other side of the camera. It's like, why is Lauren involved in Dream Run Camp? Because I have a connection with her. She's super gifted and talented. But it's like that comes second, right? It's just like, wow, we vibe. And I'm trying to do this thing. It's like, how do we slot you in? Betsy over here, very similar. Like, technically I coach. Yeah, you get a shout out every episode now until you are sitting in this seat. You're going to get a shout out in every episode. But like, yeah, Betsy too. Like, yeah, it's just like you're what technically was it say on the website? Local ambassador for Dream Run Camp. Yeah, but that like actually that's kind of perfect. Yeah. So technically, technically I coach Betsy, but Betsy just like can connect with anyone on any level. Like, why are you sitting in that seat? You're an asset to this business and I love you, but, but you're an asset to the business. And it's like the connection comes first and then like, yes. And if you, you know, you have to believe in the mission, But like, if we connect and you believe in the mission, we'll figure it out, right?

Yeah, 100%. We're on the same page. And I, I really do believe in this and my, my product. And I think that it's magnetic. So it's like you said, people will— they're either drawn to it or they're not. And those who are drawn to it, they're part of my team and The sky's the limit on what we can do.

Mm-hmm. Any questions? I have one teed up, but okay. Right.

Any hard questions from the chat? I might have one. On the—

so besides the fact that, like, obviously you said you have a really strong community and it is a really good product. Yeah.

How do you think if you, if there is something, got you that, that deal with REI? Um, REI said they were aware of our brand through, uh, social media, Instagram, um, and they could feel that there was a vibe around it, and they thought it was a definitely a natural product that they, they thought would fit well in REI, um, and they several years ago, they said by the end of 2025 you couldn't put any of your— anyone who is a vendor of REI, you couldn't use any plastic. And we made the switch instantly, and our competitors in the same, uh, area are still in plastic. And I'm not sure what, what their plan is, or hopefully they're held accountable because we hopped on right away, our compostable tube and our, and our tins. Um, did I answer that? Yeah, social media. Yeah, the social media was— it's such a good thing. Um, when you do something wrong, you're called out, and when you do something right— Betsy Mueller, everyone! There she is. You do something right, um, people spread the word as well. If you're kind of benign, then maybe you're— nothing really happens. So as we had the right ambassadors come behind our brand and begin the process of brand awareness, Michael Wardian was our first ambassador in 2015. Jim Walmsley was our second ambassador before he was— never heard of Jim Walmsley. Working in the bike shop at Absolute Bikes. And then our third ambassador was Pete Kostelnik, who held the American 24-hour record at 164 miles, I think. Hopefully I didn't blow that, Pete. Pete lives in Flagstaff now. Yeah, and so that right there, they just helped raise awareness of the brand. And we give out a lot of samples to races and just people. Yeah, I'm not sure where we're going to end up this year. It's well over 50,000 samples that we give out. Um, and the stuff works. And it's not just for chafing, you know, just any, any dry skin. Or I use it on my lips multiple times a day.

If you're starving, you can eat it.

You could eat it. Um, not a lot of benefit to eating it, but yes, you could eat it.

Wow, if you're desperate. Speaking of lawyers, my lawyers are telling me to walk back.

Please don't eat it. I can use it on, uh, infants. First inject some bleach into your pregnancy, the skin, just to keep it moisturized and supple and elastic. And, and like I said, diaper rash. This— the sky's the limit on what we could use it for. Your animals, the dry, dry noses, dry elbows.

So, uh, I'm curious to hear your perspective, uh, on, um, like creating marriage between you know, like a passion for running acquired at an early age before you have a career, and then making a career that is, you know, like, you're not an Olympic runner, so you didn't make a career of running that way. That is correct. But still, like, you know, like, that passion led to what you're doing now, you know. And again, like, it resonates with what I'm doing, you know, like I, I never made a nickel running, running, right?

Um, and yet, you know, yeah, 100%. We're like, I ran competitively, I would put bibs on for, I don't know, 32 years or something. Um, the ultra community definitely felt like a great place to, to start with the product. Different than a road marathon. We might be trying to sample 40,000 samples in one race, which we couldn't do in the beginning. And it feels really good to give back, you know. I definitely— it's, it's a win-win. I'm involved in a lot of races and aid stations. I run a lot of aid stations, and it's obviously I'm branding because I put a branded tent, but I, I'm definitely— I'm there to give back to the community because I I was on the other side for a long time, so it feels, it feels good to see the other side for sure. And it feels good to, you know, to provide something that does help people and they want to, they want to support, support the brand and then the stuff works, you know.

Are you in a position now where you offer kind of— well, I mean, you asked kind of like, uh, you know, Tyler asked a question that was like, you know, the answer to which could benefit him as he looks forward to his own career development. Where you sit, do you find yourself like mentoring or dispensing wisdom or, you know, I get it, like you're humble about like how you got where you are, but there's still like there's there's some, you know, there's something in your experience that can benefit people who are younger than you coming up behind you. Are you doing that?

I do, and with other startups, if anybody approaches me, I'm more than happy to. I love sharing my story and how what I think is important that's outside of the actual business plan, but just the community building and and believing in yourself and your brand and then going for it no matter what. No matter what. You know, sometimes just like in a long race, you're just ready to be done. Taking your shoes off sounds pretty good, but that's not where I'm at. Keeping the shoes on and we're digging deep. Yes.

So if the person who wants you just to dispense wisdom and mentorship is me sitting right here. You know, like, so yeah, you're getting like, you got, you got the tour, you know, when you showed up. Beautiful.

Yeah, this is a beautiful place. Yeah.

You have a sense of like what I'm trying to do here and the, the parallels between like, you know, you're, you and me are obvious to me. Yeah. But I think you are definitely further along. And so yeah, what do you have to offer me and us and Dream Run Camp?

I think probably keeping your desire, your intention on the front burner the whole time of why you want to do this, what you want to provide for the community, and then just being patient. You know, it takes a little while to start building, and then it starts picking up traction. And there are times when you wish that traction was better than it is, but just resorting back to that desire, I think, is what I'm always doing. When my snorkel's under the water, I'm just— I go back to the desire. This is good for humans. Yes. This is good for all humans. Uh, yeah.

Yep. Dang.

Uh, and I hope that it pays off, you know, for me, the amount of work that I'm putting in, obviously to share my product around the world. But, um, I, I do want to retire, and, uh, you know, hopefully this hard work does pay off.

Yeah, retirement. Okay, that's for a future episode.

Well, we'll have you back. Yes. Yeah, a retirement party.

Yeah, I think we could vibe on retirement fantasies as well.

I have them. Yeah, I'm 54. And, um, dude, you too? I'm 53. Yeah. Are you a Sagittarius?

No, but I am left-handed. I'm right-handed.

We have our challenges, but Are we still recording?

Yeah, this is how we do it. You should have watched previous episodes.

Well, normally I do, and lately I, I just have not been doing podcasts. I go through phases and I just haven't been at all. I'm into audiobooks right now and Yeah.

Yeah, we feel blessed.

But I will definitely, I'm sure my mom will watch this one.

I'm honored to be here. Yes. Hi, Mom. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm wondering if you can generalize, like, so that I asked you to provide counsel to me. Yeah. But for the young athletes in the room, so we've got a 19-year-old college runner here, We've got a 20-year-old college runner here. We've got a 26-year-old former college runner here. You know, like, you know, the advice you just gave me, like, you know, that, you know, like experiential wisdom, like how much does it apply to their context?

I'm not positive. I'll take a stab at this. I think Um, probably the same way that you try to find a life partner. It can't be forced. You can force it, and it may work a little bit, but it's not the real deal. And there are opportunities in all aspects of life with meeting other human beings or being in a camp like this. Having conversations with people that you don't realize until later how much of an impact that conversation had, and it might be 2 or 10 years later, but there are opportunities constantly, and it's just a matter of, of having the awareness of when to, when to hop on an opportunity. I'd never pass up opportunities, even if I don't think there's going to be a tremendous amount of value out of it. But if there's an opportunity, I always go into it as if there's something to learn here. I just don't know what it is. And sometimes it's really obvious what it is, but I don't know if that made any sense or not. But yeah, don't force it. And again, the intention I think the intention is key, going into whatever you're doing with good intention. Mhm. You know, you go toe the line at a race and you're there with everybody else to bring out the best of each other, and whoever has the best day gets to go across the line first. And yes, you need to have put in the homework and get the fitness up there, but you know, if you approach that, let's do this, let's Let's bring everybody to their best today. It's a good way to roll through life.

I see you nodding your head because I've heard you express like this is 20-year-old David here, like who like has articulated his version of exactly what you just said. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, it's like, would you like a job?

Opportunity. Yeah. No, wait, you're second in line. I want to give this guy a job. Okay.

It'll be a part-time job. All right.

Yes. Yeah.

I didn't know. You know, I went— I have a degree in forestry, worked in the ski industry for a decade coming out of college up at Snowbowl, and started a tree service. Um, didn't need a forestry degree for that. Just kind of felt like, what am I going to do the rest of my life? Um, I was good at the tree work, climbing trees.

Um, good at climbing trees.

Yeah, but this really does feel— this is a genuine This feels really good to be trying to get the product around the world. It feels really good. And again, trying not to just be for the first world, you know, those who are choosing to ride their bike in a triathlon or, you know, whatever. That's, that's great. But just, uh, it really does work. Those who have eczema or whatever, just dry skin or— Yes.

Uh, so I look forward to you hanging out for so I actually want to give a special shout out. This is our commercial break to my exceptional wife, Nataki. Yeah, they're in the background. Like, yeah, to a certain degree, like, people come to Dream Run Camp for me, but like, what they get is— Yeah, the team. Yeah, Nataki is my— I was going to say secret weapon, but she's the opposite of a weapon. Yeah, I thank God for my wife every day. And, and, and on this particular day, I think I thank my wife for this vegan. Don't let that put you off. We have vegans in the room, but like vegan enchilada casserole. This is her second. I sampled the first and it was spectacular. Yummy. Yes. And so you're going to hang out for it? Yes, I am. Yeah, appreciate it. And we'll talk a little bit more about, uh, you know, there's so many— we have a lot of time. Yeah, to talk about. Yeah, I feel like—

yeah, thank you for having me.

Yeah, uh, you are very welcome. And thank you for coming. Thank you for your kind attention. And let's have some vegan enchilada casserole. Yummy!

Stay lubed!