Hosava Kretzmann: Live from Dream Run Camp, Hopi/Diné runner and Flagstaff local!

DreamRun Camp Live. Special welcome to those of you tuning in on Instagram. This is a first for us. We've been YouTube-centric up to this point, always emphasizing the in-person experience, which you can have if you come to DreamRun Camp. But yes, so very excited to be— we, I don't know if you know the rap song Two Phones, but we have two, we have We literally have two phones going on here, one for YouTubers. We love our YouTubers. One for our Instagrammers. We love you too. And yeah, couldn't have a better guest for this edition of DRC Live First on Instagram, Mr. Hosubah Kretzmann. Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Yeah, great to have you. So just to like Yawns all around. It's crazy. It's incredible what's happening here. Yeah. Lauren, whom I could not survive without, has not slept well lately, and she's yawning on the other side of one of the cameras. And poor Ava, you need a better night's sleep tonight. Ava, one of our many Californian visitors, Yeah, we have a cool congregation here. One or two people missing. I don't know what that was. That's Clementine. We love her. She's insane. Yeah. So I like to lead off. Yeah. So we will take questions. You know, we can get some live ones from Instagram. Lauren, can you see You know how to do that, right? Yeah. First time, folks. So, yeah, feel free to interrupt if someone asks a question live for Hosseba. That would be great. Can happen at any time. Also, questions are welcome from the gallery here. I'm leading. I'm not dominating this conversation, though. I am very curious to— I mean, we know each other, but I am excited to go deeper into your story. Um, I like to lead off when I do know my guests by inviting you to say, like, how do we know each other?

Let's see. Yeah, we might have met last year. I forgot what time frame, but yeah, we— there was an invite that, uh, Run Flagstaff had just to come see your, um, you know, what you developed here, which you created, which you furnished, which is really opening. Yeah, your grand opening, which is really based off your book and your experience coming up to Flagstaff and really getting the full experience as a runner and training, you know, kind of semi-professionally, which, you know, there's never really been a book about that. And so it was really awesome to read your book, and that's kind of how, you know, I first knew about you. And then I didn't hear about this run camp until Run Flagstaff posted about it, and then I made the connection. I was like, oh, that's the author. And, um, Yeah, how many Matt Fitzgeralds can there be, right? Exactly. Yeah, that's true.

So yeah, okay, there's a story there, but we might come back to that.

Definitely.

There's actually a lot. Yeah.

But yeah, that's how I heard about you and got to meet you in person. And yeah, just super, super thrilled that you got to really make this reality. And for others too that read your book. It's pretty incredible to see it full circle.

Yes. So do you like running?

I do. Yeah, I do. I've been running since— geez, since I could walk, really. And I grew up on the Hopi reservation. And running is a central part of our life. It's been a part of our daily life for hundreds, thousands of years, since we've occupied that land that we live on. Which is very central to Hopi because they've occupied the three mesas there for several, several years, you know, in time immemorial, essentially. So running is really a part of a religion. It's a part of our ceremonies. So I grew up always running and knowing that running was beneficial for not only your spirit, but your mental health and your your physical health as well.

So yeah, do you remember— do you have like a very early memory of, of your exposure to running that's like still clear today?

I do, yeah. Um, yeah, one of my earliest memories, um, living on the reservation, which I'm from a village called Hope Villa which is on Third Mesa, uh, I remember having to chase my brother to make one of the— it could Katsinas are kind of like deities or they're spirits that we really ensure that we pray to and do these ceremonies so that we ask them for their help. And typically just trying to get their help for not only our crops but ask for rain that, you know, because Hopi are traditionally farmers. Farmers. We've been farmers for hundreds, thousands of years. And so that's kind of why we have that strong connection with the land and wanting to make sure that we take care of it because it takes care of us. So that's kind of my earliest memory is just running to catch the Katsinas starting one of their night dances, which they have several.

Was your brother older?

Yeah.

Okay.

So you were chasing him. I had to chase him down in the sand, you know, without shoes on and trying to catch them because we were going to miss this dance. And essentially everyone's a part of this, you know, no one's left out in terms of conducting these ceremonies and so, and these dances, these night dances. So we couldn't miss it. And so as they were starting, they, you know, make some kind of noise that's, you know, very prominent. And so you have to be there. And if you're not, then you get scolded by your parents, which could be bad. But yeah, that's kind of my earliest memory. And then just growing up, just hearing stories about the, you know, some famous Hopi runners, one of them being Lewis Tewanima, who in 1912 won the 10K gold medal or silver medal. And so he's probably the most well-known Hopi runner from my village. But there's been tons of others, you know, a lot that have extreme accolades. So yeah, it's been neat to be a part of that. Yeah, in some regard.

Yeah, it's such a fascinating way to be introduced to running, which is like, I mean, for sure we know, like, you know, humans ran for a lot of reasons before they ran like 10,000-meter track.

Yeah, exactly.

So what was that like for you to I mean, did you not even realize that running could be a competitive thing initially? Because—

yeah, yeah, you're, you're exactly right. Yeah, I was thinking about this on the way. I didn't really get introduced to competitive running until I got to high school because before then it was just a part of my daily life.

Right.

And that's how it is for a lot of Hopi people, is it's just a part of waking up, greeting the sun, of saying your prayers, not only for yourself but for your family. And for those that aren't a part of your family, the whole world, and for your crops too. So yeah, for me it was just like, oh, this is just a part of my daily life, just waking up running and being healthy in that regard, physically, spiritually, and mentally. So yeah, that's— and yeah, being exposed to high school with the high school cross-country team, I was like, oh, this is actually like a sport. Sport is a sport. It's not just like, oh, it's a part of your daily life. Because, you know, even hearing about Louis Tewanima, I mean, his family I'm pretty close with, you know, they always told me that, yeah, he didn't ever run competitively. He just ran for his community. He ran for his family, his clan family, his village, you know. And so that's kind of what I grew up always hearing is like, oh, this is what I got to run for. It's not running to win, it's not running to make money, it's not these other, you know, fame or fortune. It's just running because it's a part of our life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, have you ever been concerned or are you now that, you know, running competitively could sort of like spoil, you know, the spirit in which you were, you know, you fell in love with running? You know, that there's like, can be at times a tension between this spiritual cultural running on one side and then the competitive on the other side. How harmonious can the two be?

I think, yeah, if you find a balance, that's always good. Like anything, you have to find a balance. And for me, I can remember a time, and I'm glad you brought this up. It was my senior year of running at Fort Lewis College for D2 school. And I remember that was the year I was told like, this is my last season that I'll have. And so the last cross-country season, it was really interesting because I kind of switched my reason for running. Before that, my reason for running was just to run. But then I was like, oh no, this is my last season. I want to try and run PRs and try and get the school record. I never got the school record. Because I focused too much on myself, which I should have focused more on my team. And that's exactly how running is back home. You don't focus on your own running, you focus on the welfare of others, like running for prosperity, for something bigger than yourself. And so I lost sight of that. And then at the end of the season, my coach was like, what happened to you? You're not the role model you used to be with all these guys on your team. You start running for yourself and not as a 7-person team, which is what cross-country is. That's the principle of running as a team, you know, you run for the, the people behind you, in front of you. So I lost sight of that. And then fortunately, I got another season back because my eligibility was just, it worked out in that way that I was able to get another season after they reviewed all of that. And then that season I took it more seriously in the sense that I was running for something bigger than myself. And so the whole goal of that season, the upcoming season, which was 2018, was, okay, we're gonna run to get to nationals as a team. And so it was nice to remember my roots of, okay, this is what running's about. Me. It's not about trying to get times or anything like that. It's running for my community. And at that time, my community was my team, you know, because I spend every day with them essentially. So yeah, that, that was a great season. And the fortunate part about that is, you know, I made it to nationals as an individual for cross-country for D2, but the unfortunate part is we didn't make it as a team. Team. So, um, it kind of went— it showed me that, you know, if I do it for the right reasons, something good will happen.

For yourself?

Yeah, for myself. And, and so my whole goal that season was like, I'm doing this for my team, I want to get my team to Nationals. And so it was really disappointing that we didn't make it as a team because I tried my hardest. I remember like crossing the finish line, I remember this was the coldest I had ever been. We went to Denver and the temperature dropped like 20 degrees by the time we got there.

So it was January?

No, this was December, December, November, and the coldest I had ever been. I had never been that cold before to where it like, even with 3 jackets, I was still cold, you know? And then we had wind, rain, hail, and Yeah, I just was out there trying to run for my team. And so we didn't make it as a team to nationals, which was our whole goal, and which I was always hyping my team about. It's like, we got to make it to nationals. And so it was nice that I got to go, but it wouldn't have been as great had my team been there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, but a cool lesson. Oh yeah, big lesson. You benefited individually by putting yourself second.

Exactly. And that's how it is out in Hopi. You know, Hopi are very self-sacrificing. They really don't do much for themselves. They, they're always willing to give and willing to help. And so, yeah, it's just nice that that's carried through even today with my running.

Mhm. Yeah. I want to give— do we have any Instagram questions? Okay. I want to give the room an opportunity to— before I go further, because I have more questions my own, but please speak up if you're ready. I'll circle back around again. Yeah, I'm just curious to know more about what it was like growing up on the rez, because my own childhood, I'm in rural New Hampshire, way over on the other side of the country. That's, that's what I knew, and then became like kind of a West Coast transplant. So like, I honestly— I mean, you might not know much about how I grew up. I don't know much about how you grew up. So yeah, I'm just curious to know like how you experienced it. Whoo.

I mean, yeah, I don't remember having much growing up, which was something that I've also kind of has helped today, is like I'm not that materialistic with with things just because growing up, I mean, as long as I had my family, I was doing okay. That was like the big thing. As long as I have food, I'm okay. As long as I have my family, I'm okay. And you kind of learn that at a young age living out in Hopi is like you got to be grateful for the things that you have because someday you might not have that anymore. And you got to keep it simple. K-I-S-S, keep it simple. Realize that the things that really are important in your life are kind of those things. That's always been my hierarchy of things is like family, friends, people, and then the food and everything else behind that. It hasn't been a phone and a car at the top or anything like that. So yeah, growing up, we didn't really have too much. I mean, I remember we didn't even have electricity And hauling water was always a tough thing to do, going into town. So Flagstaff is kind of known as a border town, which a lot of reservations— people on the reservation go to to get supplies for the weekends and then they go back home. So I remember a lot of times just sitting in the car falling asleep, either to Flagstaff or coming back from Flagstaff, because we'd have to get all of our stuff because there's just not a whole lot of grocery stores out there and a lot of fresh food. And if there is fresh food, it's really expensive. So it almost makes sense, well, to just go come here and load up and then go out there. But yeah, when you have those essentials, it doesn't feel like it's that hard to deal with because you're just— that's how you grew up, you know. It's like you grew— as long as you have a place to stay and a roof over your head, you're fine. Right. So yeah, it was interesting living like that for a while. Then we moved to Flagstaff because my mom had got a job offer here and wanted to pursue school and got her master's. So yeah, it was definitely an adjustment. I mean, just seeing like the things that I guess are more modern in the sense of like having a TV, having cable, like that was just kind of wild to me that you have all this access on like a screen. So it was kind of interesting just having and adjusting to that when really I didn't really come from anything, you know? Right. Yeah. So it was interesting and I'm grateful for it to have that experience because it makes it easy to relate to a lot of other Native youth. 'Cause I know that hardship of growing up and having to share your brother's clothes, your sibling's clothes and get hand-me-downs and not really getting anything new and just being really grateful for what you have. So that's kind of how I was raised and taught is just to have, be grateful for the things you have.

In your present context, are there any ways in which you, you would like to be better understood? Like just on a cultural level? Because like, you know, you know, here you are in a room where you're the only Hopi person out of several, you know what I mean? Like you're, you're in a lot of contexts like that.

Sure.

Yeah. Just for my own benefit, like, like, are there any ways in which you just would like to be better understood on a cultural level?

I mean, it helps that we are living in Flagstaff and my reservation is only 2 hours away and my village is not that far. So I mean, I think a lot of people are pretty familiar with the tribes and the history that's gone on with Native people in general. But I mean, yeah, it could always be improved and increased so that people are aware of kind of like the tragic history that has happened with Native people, how they've gone through assimilation and termination and trying to make them something that they're not, which they've always been Native people. And trying to adjust to this Western world and to non-Native ideals and religion and culture, it's really made it hard. And it's come with a lot of trauma still. And a lot of hardships too. I mean, even to this day, like, IHS is the Indian Health Service. It's a part— it's a section of the American government that provides a lot of funds, a lot of kind of healthcare assistance to Native people. And it's been unfortunate because every year it kind of decreases. The funding decreases quite a bit. I think I've been told that it's like the lowest fund of all the American government funds. It's always been underfunded, even to this day. There's a saying that's out on the res that's like, "Don't get sick in April. Don't get sick in June," because that's typically when the funds run out. You can't get any— you can't get compensated or access to that healthcare system because it's— that funding is dried up. Yeah, so it's like, don't get sick in June, you know, that's what they say. So it's unfortunate that that's still ongoing, you know, and it's unfortunate that, yeah, it's still— it's still tough living like that, but, you know, I think it's really important to realize that there's still a lot of good stuff that's happening out on the reservation. There's still a lot of efforts to make education better, which is what I'm trying to do at NAU. There's still incredible things that are happening out on the reservation. And it's not like that whole world is totally forgotten. And I think it's helped here because we're so close to it and Flagstaff. Yeah, it's definitely been tough because in a lot of settings I've only— I've always been like the one Native person, especially going to Prescott High School. You know, there was only probably like 10 other Native people there, but from other tribes, mainly the Yavapai Apache tribe that's in Prescott. So yeah, being 1 out of 10 out of 4,000 students was always kind of shocking. You know, you definitely stick out. And with a name like Hosava, I mean, it's hard to stay under the radar. So yeah.

This is a pivot, but like, does Hosava have like a translation?

It does. Yeah. It means like the Venero. And that name was given to me from my Gua, which is grandfather in Hopi. And he was a leader of the Arrow Clan. And so that's where the Hosava comes from. HoHo is, that means arrow in Hopi. And so like myself, my name is Hosava, my brother's name is Lamajo, my mother's name is Haumana. And so that whole part is in reference to arrow. So that's kind of, you know, when you hear that name, a lot of Hopis know, oh, you're from this clan, or, you know, your name carries a lot of significance. And so, yeah, I'm lucky that I have a, a Hopi name because, yeah, it just grounds me and reminds me like, okay, I should be proud of my background and I shouldn't hide it, which a lot of times in my life I tried to hide it. I tried to just be normal in the sense that, you know, tried to be accepted by my peers, which never worked to some degree. Yeah. So it's been tough. Certainly. I mean, it hasn't been an easy trip or an easy life for me. And that's something that we're taught as young Hopi youth is that it really goes back to our creation story that the reason why— I guess, well, not the reason why, but in our creation story, the Hopi people were given a short ear of corn, blue corn. And essentially that's significant of that Hopi people are going to endure a lot of hardships, a lot of, they're going to have to persevere, but through all of that, they're going to live a fruitful life. And so that's kind of what I've always realized in myself. And there's a word for it too that's really significant to that is nihonvitha. And nihonvitha means like, don't give up, to keep going, to do your best. And so, like with Hopi High School, they've won cross-country championships 24 years in a row. They have 24 or 27, maybe.

We were just at trivia night.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So Coach Rick Baker, I mean, he's a phenomenal coach. He's Hopi as well. And yeah, I mean, there's a reason why there's 24 state titles that they have, you know, and it's— and when they're running, they say, "Nahomvita," and that kind of goes back to that word is very significant in our community. And yeah, as I was saying with the creation story, just we're going to endure a lot of hardships, but we just got to keep going and keep moving forward. And so— Even all the hardships I've endured as a young person, and even still now, you just have to push through it. You have to stay strong. And it's tough because some of the Native youth I speak to, it's so hard for them. I can't imagine what it's like now with social media and with being bullied, because that's always going to happen. And it sucks to say that, but I wish more school systems were more accepting of Native people and there was more of a push to really make them feel like they don't have to hide themselves or hide their identities, which it's unfortunate still happens now.

Yeah, I definitely want to go a little bit further down that road, but first, I somewhat cheekily led the interview by saying like, So do you like running? Because like, you know, in fact, not only do you like running, but you've achieved quite a lot as a runner. And I know you're a humble person, but, you know, for the benefit of anyone who is watching and might be inspired by you, can you say a little bit about what you've been able to accomplish as a competitive runner?

Yeah, that's tough. I mean, I don't like talking about myself too much.

I know, but you got to. For their best?

Yeah, right.

Um, bigger than you?

Yeah. Uh, I mean, I guess the biggest race that I had done last year was the LA Marathon, where I got 6th overall and then 1st American. Um, and that, that kind of led me to where I am today and led to a lot of great, um, support, I would say. And the whole intention behind that race was to try and qualify for the Olympic trials. And so I think I'm only like a minute or two away from qualifying for the trials. And yeah, that's kind of been my whole goal since I was young was to try and qualify for the trials.

And so I'm just glad that specifically in the marathon—

specifically in the marathon, but I tried to do it in the, in the mile. I don't know if we have time to tell that story.

Oh yeah, we absolutely have time to tell.

Well, yeah, I first I tried to do the mile, um, and then I— that was during COVID actually, so it was a weird time because I, I don't think anyone knew when racing would be right normal again. And so I think that year I had run a 4:05 at the SkyDome, and so I was only 10 seconds away from making the qualifying time for the 1500 meter, which I thought I could do. Piece of cake. But then COVID happened, and then, um, I got into a car accident, and then that took me out for almost a year. Yeah.

Yikes.

So that was pretty rough. I had a lot of nerve damage in my leg, and that— I just couldn't run. It was really unfortunate, and I thought I was done. Luckily, I met my wife at the time, during that time, so I was like kind of fine with like giving up running.

Okay. I was like, maybe one door is closed Another door opened.

Exactly. Yeah. And I took that as a sign like, you know what? You met someone that's right for you. Maybe you can just let that dream go and just be satisfied with what you've done. But it wasn't until my wife— she saw me do a race at Buffalo Park with the George Kite race. And NAU was there. And I had only been training just a little bit. But I got 8th overall. So I was right behind the top 7, which was all the NAU guys.

Right.

So, and then she talked to me afterwards and she was like, you got to take this more seriously. Like, you got to not just run every other day.

Right. Yeah.

Take this seriously because you're still like, there's still something in there that you can make something happen with. And so, yeah, I listened to her advice and then I got a coach and then That led to, you know, a lot of other times coming down in the half marathon and then with the LA race, which that was a phenomenal race. I don't know.

It all came together for you?

It did, yeah. My coach really helped me. I have always, you know, the thing about me is I've always like stuck to what I say I'm gonna do. I don't deviate too much on what I say. So when I told him I wanted to try and qualify for the Olympic trials, which at this time my coach was Dylan Bellis, which is— he used to live here.

Yep.

And he was like, yeah, let's do it. Like, I'm, I'm confident in you, you just gotta train. And I'm like, yeah, I can train. And this is on top of working like 40 to 50 hours a week, sometimes 60 hours a week. So like, I work hard. I When I say I'm going to do something, I want to do it to the fullest extent. I don't want to just be halfway involved in my training or in any of my goals that I have. I think that's true for anyone. If you want to have something happen, have it be meaningful, whether that's work, life, job, running, sports, you got to be fully committed. If it's something that you really, really want and And so I was like, yeah, I want to qualify for the trials. And so yeah, it led to a lot of good things. It led to me getting sponsored by Team Run Flagstaff, which I was very fortunate about. Led to me getting sponsored by Hammer Nutrition. Led to me getting some support from N7, which is like a program that Nike— is run through Nike, but it's mainly for Native athletes. And to give back to Native communities too.

What's the 7 stand for?

The 7 is 7 generations, based on Sam McCracken, which I believe he's Cherokee. And I got to speak with them at Fort Lewis College a little bit. But yeah, he's the, the creator behind N7. And N7, that the 7 is the 7 generations ahead of you and the 7 generations behind you. So you're influenced from the 7 generations behind you to make an impact now for the 7 generations ahead of you.

I love that.

It's really phenomenal. Yeah, and that's kind of a big belief within a lot of Native communities. Like, that's kind of the legacy I want to leave behind, you know. And that's why once I'm done running and I'm retired, I want to get the next Hopi runner to the Olympics. 'Cause I think it's doable, especially 'cause there's so much talent on the reservation. They just need, a lot of these young people, they just need resources, they need support, they need shoes. I mean, they just, they need that basic stuff just to keep their dreams alive. But unfortunately, there's so much talent out there, no one's really recruiting out there. No one's really, getting them to go to certain schools, you know, and to really get the full, you know, to provide them with support and assistance so that they can be successful not only as a college student in their academics but as an athlete. So that's something that I try to promote as much as I can. So, you know, just so that they, they can run and they can do sports and use that as a segue to get into school because that's what I did. My family, they didn't have any financial support for me. When I told my brother— this is so funny— I told my brother I wanted to go to college and he's like, "How are you going to pay for it?" I was like, "Wait, how much is it? How much is it to go to college?" Then once you start looking, you're like, "Oh my gosh, $25,000 a year just for one year to go to college?" I don't have that money. I don't have that money in my bank account. So yeah, you really have to be resourceful. And like, I wasn't the smartest kid either. I almost dropped out of high school my freshman year, which was really a turning point. But yeah, you weren't a great student.

You're smart.

I— yeah, either or. Yeah, my freshman year I had a below a 3.0 GPA, and my, my Thankfully, I was on the cross-country team, and my coach at the time was like, if you don't get your grades up, we're gonna kick you off the team. And the cross-country team was like the only good thing going on for me at the time. That's like the only thing I was good at, you know. I wasn't good— I really loved biology, but I would get C's all the time, and that's not— that doesn't get you to AP biology, which is what I tried to convince my teacher, but that's another side story. But anyways, yeah, so he's like, if you don't show up to class, if you don't do your work, we're gonna kick you off. And I was like, oh man, I don't wanna lose this. This is what makes me happy. And yeah, so then that next year, my sophomore year, I just worked hard. I just sat down, did my work, turned it in even though it wasn't the best. I still turned it in. And got C's, but, you know, I was, I was able to graduate with a 3.0. So that was, that was a huge undertaking for me. But then I went to Coconino Community College, got my GPA up even more, and then went to Fort Lewis. So it really pays off if you can, you know, use sports as a way to get you into college, because I went to Fort Lewis and they offered me a full ride, which I was super super grateful for. And I didn't have to worry about anything. And that was like one of the best calls I could give to my parents was like, hey, you guys don't have to pay for anything. And that was the whole goal for me because I was not going to put my family into debt at all. Because those numbers, that's a big number. Like to conceive for someone that's from my background, $25,000, that's like unthinkable. It is. That's a lot of zeros. So I'm glad it worked out. I'm glad that I was able to graduate from high school because that, that wasn't even on the cards for me. I was like, my freshman year I was pretty set on just joining the Army after high school, so it didn't really matter to me what grades I got. I'm just like, whatever happens, I'll join the Army, they'll take care of me.

So, um, Any regrets on that score?

Um, I mean, the thing is I applied for the Coast Guard Academy after I got out of Fort Lewis and got accepted, and I was like kind of going that route if I couldn't pay for my master's program. But then I got a great job at NAU and then that helped pay for my tuition. So yeah, I've been pretty lucky. I don't know if it's luck, but— or I've just worked hard. It's hard to say, but I feel like it's a little bit of both. But it worked out. So yeah.

Are you looking now to— yeah, I love that whole— I just, I love the whole like 7 generations before.

Yeah, it's impactful.

And then 7 generations after. Like, I know from talking to you, you know, on previous occasions that you are focused on the 7 generations coming after you. And like, you know, the platform you have at this point, you know, the main one is running, right? And so like, you know, the kind of currency that comes with athletic success, like if you show up in a room, people, people will show up to listen to what you have to say. And How are you trying to like sort of like pay it forward at this point, like to use your platform as a successful athlete to benefit generations, you know, from where you came from? I know you do like some speaking and—

Yeah. Yeah, I do a lot of that. And a lot of teachers reach out to me, a lot of parents reach out to me. And it's so great that people ask and invite me because it's hardly me reaching out to them. It's usually them reaching out to me because they saw you on Camp Live. Yeah, and I think they're really open to it because I'm willing to do it, you know. And regardless if they can provide gas money for me to go out there, even if it's no gas money, I really try and make it work with my time and with working how much I work, I mean, it's tough to make time for it, but usually I try and put it on the schedule. If I can't do it this year, I try and do it next year. And so I really try and make it work because it's really, I mean, I hope it's impactful for a lot of the youth. And I've had a few of them come up to me and ask me like, listen, this is my goal, this is what I wanna do, how do I do it? And I try and give them the best advice possible. And I love doing that because in the Native community, you don't really have a lot of role models to look up to, especially in sports. Like Native people in sports is very underrepresented by a long shot, especially in running. In 1912, it was pretty huge. Having 5 runners at the Olympics that are Native was a big deal. You know, but now you don't see that as much. I mean, the last two people with it were Alvin Begay or Alvina Begay in 2012. She qualified for the 2012 Olympics in the 10K, and she's Dineh. And then also Craig Curley, who's also Dineh, qualified for the marathon. So I mean, it's— that's a while ago, 2012. Yeah, but, um, yeah, so I just I always want them to dream big and know that there's someone out there that's willing to support them and be there for them and willing to, you know, answer any questions they have and just support them in general. Like, um, let this last camp I went to, which was like the Denay Running Camp, which was a 4-day running camp, um, someone had sent me an invite to do one of their— do a run that they were hosting at Buffalo Park. And that's how I got engaged with a lot of these Native youth. And one of them had reached out to me. He was like, "Hey, I just need some shoes. I need some clothes. Can you help me?" And I'm like, "Yeah, of course. I'll find you shoes. We're in a running mecca here. I'll find you shoes." There are shoes. Yeah, exactly. And clothes, I can make that happen with the connections I have and the people I know. And people are willing to usually give me some gently used running clothes or new running clothes or new running shoes. And so it's nice that I could be that platform or that be connected to these certain entities so that I can really provide a lot for the Native youth back home. Because they need it more than ever, especially now with technology. You know, I didn't grow up with having a lot of technology around, and so, you know, it wasn't really a distraction for me. But with now, with video games, cell phones, it's— I think it's more easy now than ever to be distracted and to, for, you know, to let those goals you might have go fall to the wayside. So really, I'm just— I'm trying to be there for them because I know that you know, I wish I had someone there for me growing up. That would have made a big difference. And luckily there was, you know, one of my high school coaches that really believed in my dreams, and he was one out of 4 or 5, you know, apart from my family and my friends. So, you know, I've had a small support system, but that small support system has been really huge in regards of just support. And so that's something that I always tell Native youth is that they should never focus on the people that are giving them negative comments, putting them down. Focus on those positive people, those positive comments, that positive feedback that you get from people, because those are the people that you should really focus on and not any of the people that are saying bad things about you, because that's not going to get you any farther. Or it gets you anywhere, focusing on that small group of voices that are really helping you. That's the people, those are the people you should focus on.

Yep, yeah, well said. I wanna go around the horn one more time and give the gathering the opportunity to feel like you're on the edge of your seat. Yeah, yeah, so getting back to the running piece like, I would like to know, I think— how old are you? 28 years old?

29.

29.

Yeah, I have to remember this stuff.

Wonderful, wonderful age for a runner.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah, so, you know, I remember being a 29-year-old runner and thinking like, for sure my best race is still in front of me. You know, I've had some good races, but but like my best race is still in the future. Um, do you feel that way? And like, you know, where would you like, uh, to go, you know, as a competitive runner?

Yeah. Um, so I'm— I've been talking to a lot of people trying to make plans to do the Berlin Marathon in 2026. And it's funny how you have to start planning 2 years before. Yeah, you know, and that's just how it goes with a big race like that. So I'm trying to you know, find a way to get into that race because I think that would be, you know, if training goes well, I think that's going to be the race that I could really do something good in because it's typically one of the fastest races in the country, or I guess in the world really. And so that's kind of my next, my next big race that I really want to focus on. And there's other races too that I want to focus on, but that's really the biggest one that I'll, you need support with and, yeah, need funds to get out there for because I can't afford it. But, you know, it's certainly a big dream that I have to run that race because it's so iconic. And, um, I think that would give me the best chance to run not only a PR but also try and qualify there as well.

Um, but 2028, yeah, just down the road.

Yes, exactly, exactly. But, um, Yeah, I don't think I've had that big race yet. The LA Marathon, that was kind of like a hard and fast decision that I made because I just wanted to get into a marathon.

And that's not a fast course.

It's not, typically not. It's really hilly, which I found out.

It's hilly, it's often warm.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so I kind of just chose it because I'm like, well, my brother lives there, so at least I have a place to stay. So it was kind of like that decision to to go out there. And yeah, that was a funny race because I didn't know that it would be— it would lead me to where I am today. And so yeah, I'm grateful for it for sure. But yeah, I don't think I've had my big debut yet or my big race yet because all these races I've done, even up to the LA Marathon, I've still had to work 40, 50-hour weeks. And I don't take time off because I need that money, you know, I need to still make money, still pay to live here in Flagstaff. So yeah, it's definitely— I wouldn't have it any other way though, because this is what I've been doing since high school. You know, I've always had to work, always had to run, always have to go to school, and I'm even a student now. I'm working on my PhD. So, you know, I'm I just kind of like to work hard, I guess, even though it's stressful at times. Even when I come home some days and I just sit on the couch for 5 minutes and then I'm out, like, I just— my energy is totally just lost at that point because of all the stuff I have to do. But, you know, I'm grateful for it. Like, I, I always have to remember that 10 years ago I never thought this would happen, right? Like, I never thought I'd do so well at Dalai Marathon and get all this attention because before that no one knew who I was. No one really— I— yeah, no one really knew me at all. And then that race happened and then, yeah, it led to a lot of more doors to open, you know, for me and a lot more support, which I'm grateful for. But yeah, you never know what's going to happen around the corner. That's what I've realized. But the other thing too is just staying Through that, I've learned that consistency is key, dedication is key, all of those factors. Take-home lesson. Because yeah, I look at myself 10 years ago and I'm like, wow, like the only reason why I'm— I've made it here today is because of the work I did 10 years ago, right? And there's like a Chinese proverb that's like— the quote is, the best time to plant a tree, right, is 10 years ago, and then the second best best time to plant a tree is today. So, um, I took that one, was like, oh yeah, that sounds about right. But, um, yeah, it's been helpful that, um, I, I've come a long way, and there's been a lot of highs and a lot of lows, but ultimately it's been really good that I've still made it this far without any major injuries. Um, I haven't had anything too crazy besides the car accident. Um, But yeah, I've been really grateful to— for the experiences that I've had and the people I've been connected with, and that I'm still on this road to try and qualify for the trials. And it would be really awesome to see another Hopi runner try and qualify for the marathon. I think that would be amazing. And I hope that, you know, by me doing it, it will set, uh, not a standard, but other Hopi runners will see that they can also be successful too, with knowing that I came from the same background that they did. You know, the only thing that I would say is like, just don't give up. You know, like, failure is okay.

I said that word again, don't give up.

Oh no, the Hopi word, no, homvidda. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad I was taught that at a very young age because that's carried me through day in and day out, is no that I just can't give up. You know, I can fail. I've failed tons of times. I've failed more times than I've succeeded. But yeah, just knowing that I— giving up is not an option, you know, is what my mindset is. And that's been my whole mindset since I was young. It's like, just don't give up, you know, just keep going. And yeah, work hard.

Yeah, well, you have the full support of the Dream Run.

Oh, that's awesome.

You know this, like, this is not your first time here, and that's amazing. Yeah, you know, uh, you know, I, I am a fan of yours and a supporter of yours. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever form that takes. Yeah, I want to, I want to see you, uh, continue this journey.

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. Oh yeah, we have a question.

Yeah, sorry, I just wanted to add the—

on the not giving up, there's a quote from that movie.

This is Ava talking from the corner here. Actually, you know what, let me— for the sake of the audience, do you mind? Sure, you're not seen, you're just heard.

It's not that important, it's just from that movie. Oh gosh, what's the movie? It's with Eddie Murphy where they inherit the house and it's a haunted house. But anyway, there's the crystal ball and he's like, he like Eddie Murphy's about to give up, and the crystal ball with the lady's head comes out and she says, "You try, you fail. You try, you fail. The only true failure is when you stop trying." And yeah, that was the one that stuck with me.

Wow, that's great, and you remembered it so clearly. That's awesome. Yeah, it is.

She kind of nailed it there.

Yeah, definitely nailed it.

We're winding down. By the way, thank you, Ava from the wings. Any other questions before we sign off? All right, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Hang around for grilled cheese sandwiches and tomato soup.

Oh, definitely.

And chips and guac. Yeah, and sounds amazing. All right, um, thank you all for tuning in. Uh, hope this went well on Instagram, our very first Dream Run Camp live episode. Simulcast it on YouTube and Instagram. See you next week.

All right.

Wow.

Hey, that was awesome.

Thanks, dude.