Craig Hunt: Creating Positive Running Cultures + College Coaching

Arizona, happy Independence Day for those who celebrate. I'm rocking my Flagstaff Downtown Mile t-shirt from today, and I did not earn this t-shirt. I earned it in the sense that I paid for it, but I did not actually run the race. I intended to, my body just didn't cooperate, and so it goes. Yeah, so we got a cool crowd of skewing on the younger side of DreamRun campers here, which has been fun just to be surrounded by college-age energy. Just an awesome time of year. Weather's fantastic. Running is equally so. We've got our pool in full effect. We had how many people in there today? You didn't get in, did you? Okay. It was just Jenny. And our guest this evening is none other than Craig Hunt, local athlete and coach. Welcome, Craig.

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great. Beautiful, beautiful place you have here.

Thank you. Yeah, it's funny, I had forgotten that you had been here before. So you came like 14 months ago.

Yeah, just over a year ago for your open house that you hosted. Hosted the whole town.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was— it's funny, it seems like I mean million years ago and also yesterday. Yeah, yep, we've, we've been busy. Yep. Hi Betsy! Hello! Hi, we're live. We are live. How are you doing? Oh, there's room for you. There's room for you right there. Like, yeah, snuggle up. Yeah, uh, so the banter has to do with the fact that, uh, I coach Betsy. Mhm. And so I feel that taking the piss out of each other is part of effective coaching. Yes. You're a coach. Do you also feel that way? What role does, like, honestly, like, just like, I didn't mean to dive right into this, but—

Oh, let's go. Let's do it.

It's interesting to me, like, because we were just discussing this in office hours, how most of coaching is not really the X's and O's. Like, knowledge is important. Important, but like it's the people skills that are different, the differentiators for really great coaches. So for me, like, I like the way I look at it is like if an athlete is going to meet with me like one-on-one, like I want them to look forward to it. Like just because like we have— oh God, they shouldn't dread the Zoom call or the in-person experience. Yeah, it's like Like, I enjoy interacting with this person and I feel like I can be comfortable and be myself. And I feel like just humor and banter have a role in that process.

Yeah. No, I definitely feel that it's more than the X's and O's and the science of running, right? You have to have the culture and the relationship with your athletes, especially coaching at Cochinino Community College, like, I have more of a team atmosphere, right? So the culture that we create and the environment that we really build is super important because, you know, one or two bad apples can bring the whole tree down. So you got to make sure that, you know, you have some really good roots in place to keep everything stable. And yeah, build the relationship with each athlete one-on-one, and so they feel comfortable coming into your office and talking to you, whether it's whether it's about running or their academics or their life, their family, whatever's going on. Like, you gotta— you're coaching the whole person, not just their running.

Right, right, Betsy.

Yeah, yeah, right. No, sometimes, yeah, you feel almost like a therapist. Like, you're helping people through— you're adjusting their mileage because they're going through a rough patch with their final exams or their relationship or, you know, a death in the family. So therefore, you drastically change their training, right, too, because it all goes hand in hand. With their life and the stress that they're experiencing at the time.

Yes. As I like to say, athletes are not exercise machines.

Yeah, they'll break down.

Yeah.

And yeah, they can't just go, go, go.

No, no. They're human beings who happen to exercise competitively. Yeah. So yeah, that holistic approach. Yeah, that's my approach. Isn't it, Betsy? Yes. We'll talk later. Yeah, so, um, yeah, so I didn't mean to— well, I did. Um, you got to go with the flow sometimes. But like, yeah, zooming like way back, um, uh, how did you discover running, or did running find you?

How did I— how did I discover running? Well, uh, when I was younger, I was just always doing like road races with my dad and my older brother. So I grew up in Connecticut. Um, So always playing like soccer, T-ball, like staying active, playing team sports. But then there, you know, there was always, you know, the annual local road race or two that my dad would do, and then I would hop in. My older brother ran, so, you know, we just kind of follow in his footsteps. And yeah, just really like excelled at it, was always like one of the faster athletes on the soccer field, like through middle school, and then I knew once I hit high school that I was going to— I was just going to run. Like, that I was going to go all in indoor, outdoor track, cross country. Like, that's what I was just waiting for. Like, I was waiting for soccer to be over. I wanted to run. I wanted to be competitive.

Can we just get rid of this damn ball?

Yeah, seriously. Like, you know, like, I was the one that didn't care that we had to run laps at soccer practice.

Yes.

And I think So my, my high school, New Milford High School, like the program had a lot of success during my brother's time. They were back-to-back New England champions as a team. So I was stepping into a program that, you know, was like defending state titles, like always had a conference champion, things like that. So yeah, I just looked forward to that a lot when I was in middle school and contributed to that once I got to high school. Yeah, so it was really exciting and then continued through college and yeah, and on. Uh-huh.

Uh, so there are 6 New England states. How many of them compete in the, uh, high school New England?

So all of them.

All of them?

Yeah.

Okay. Yep. All right. When I was— I grew up in New Hampshire. When I was there, like, uh, it was like Vermont and, uh, and Massachusetts didn't participate. So—

oh yeah, no, it's Far as I remember, when I was in high school, cross country too. Yeah, cross country, track. Damn, as far as I remember.

It just seems so stupid.

It's just like you had your state championship and then the whatever, the top 3 at this each state meet would then go to the New England championships and you would see like who, who was the best in New England, not just your state.

Yeah, it was like, you know, Massachusetts and Vermont were just like, no, we're not, we're not participating. So like you could be New England champion, it's like there might have been like 5 runners in Massachusetts who could have kicked your ass. Yeah, but they weren't there.

You'd have to fact-check me, but as far as— yeah, my, my memory or numbers is—

that's, that's an evolution. That's an evolution for the better.

Yes, definitely.

Yeah. Um, to, uh, this is how we roll.

Uh, no, it was good.

Yeah, to deviate just slightly, I'm wondering if you have any advice for Story's sister, who is a soccer player. She's a goalkeeper, which is like, you know, there's a lot of running in soccer, not so much if you're a goalkeeper, but like Story discovered running and has really excelled at it and found a passion for it and feels like as an older sister, she might wanna like hand that down, you know, like did you ever hand down clothing?

Not willingly.

Okay, but it happened. But you're willingly trying to hand down soccer to your sister. So, but no, she's not really—

She's not convinced that running could help her become a better soccer player or that it could just be a worthy pursuit in itself. So that's what I'm trying to work on.

I mean, I feel like you can't, you can't force anything, right? Like if she, you can't force it on her. Then she's not going to enjoy it, then she's going to hate running, she's going to hate soccer. She's going to hate you. Right, yeah, she's going to hate you. Right, so you're just like putting a wedge, you're just creating a wedge in there. So lead by example, you know, put the little bug in her ear. Like you can give her all the facts and tell her that, you know, the more aerobically fit she is, the better soccer player she's going to be, the better athlete all around she'll be. But yeah, I think like ultimately, like you never want to force anything, because then it'll really just take the joy, the love, the fun out of it, right? Just lead by example.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly how I got into running. Like, I ran because my dad started running marathons, and he never asked me to run, you know. He never like demanded that I run. Like, he just ran. And I looked up to my dad and I saw him doing it, seemed kind of normal. I'm like, I want to do that too. It was like completely my choice. But like, that was— yeah, it's a little different, like, you know, parent-child relationship versus sibling relationships. But still, you see it happen, you know, older siblings just simply model something. They make it like, wow, I thought running sucked, but my older sister makes it look kind of cool.

And maybe Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, I followed in the footsteps of one of my older brothers, but I had 3 other older brothers and 2 of them were wrestling, and I— wrestlers, and I did that for like half a season and I was like, nope, that's not my cup of tea. Like, so even when you do have good examples, you know, sometimes it's just not— I didn't enjoy it and I went in a different direction. I chose running.

Were your parents runners?

Not necessarily. Like, my dad would do a couple, like, weekend road races or local road races, but again, he never really forced anything. He always invited me to go along and do it. But no, he, he never trained. Like, he would just be like, oh, the local 5K, I'm gonna sign up and do it. But he never, like, trained for it. He wasn't going for a run every day. That was definitely, like, me and my brother. We just found that kind of on our own. And had a great, great middle school and high school program that built us up.

Yeah, I'm always like, I feel like I ask this question of everyone who sits there, but I'm fascinated by it because I had my own experience with it, which was very powerful. Like, just like it's almost like maybe you with your flute, Amy, like when you, when you pick up a musical instrument and give it a shot and you're like, man, I could not suck. I could not suck at this if I stuck with it. Like, it just feels like, you know, just like there's something— there's a match. And that's what I experienced with running, you know, like pretty much every kid in America grows up with a lot of exposure to sports. And I had my share, but I really didn't— like, I was definitely drawn to it. I liked being physical, but I didn't have the experience of really being good at it. At a sport until I found running. And then I'm like, wow, this is really painful, sucky sport with no ball. But, but, but, you know, just like I seem to be better than most, most people at it. Like, what was that like for you?

Yeah, I think it just, yeah, it just kind of came natural. I don't know, I just grew up playing sports and soccer. I always gravitated towards soccer. Baseball, I didn't like standing around, you know, on the field waiting for the ball to come to me. So gravitated towards soccer and just realized that I was the fastest one on the field or could run the furthest on the field. And that was— I got a lot of positive reinforcement from my coaches and my parents and stuff through that. And so I think that just naturally grew into like that I'm, I'm an endurance athlete, I'm a runner. So yeah.

Yeah. And then there's like that point where you start to look, you know, cast your mind forward toward a future. So you have like, you know, you're 14, 15, 16, however old, and you have like that relationship with running, which is like kind of like new love. But then, you know, you can start to think ahead like I did. I mean, I knew when I was 15 or whatever, like, I ain't going to the Olympics. It's like, that's just not in the cards for me. But I'm like, I want to keep running, you know, and I want to see where my ultimate limit is. Did you know, at what point did you start to think about maybe possibly having like a long-term relationship with running?

Yeah, I mean, I think as soon as I, as soon as I was in high school, I knew I wanted to run in college, and then I had a really good college coach that looked at my training long term too. Like, I remember sitting down with him, like, it had to be like early on, like my second year or whatnot, and we talked about, um, like I was probably injured at the time or whatnot, and he was like, we're not going to rush back from this because you have a career beyond college. Like, I'm not going to rush you back just so you can score a couple points at the conference meet. But in the long term hinder yourself.

This is the coach you deserve. So yeah, you should have had this coach.

Just taking that extra like long, long-term approach. And I think like for him as my coach, like almost like swallowing his pride because he's like, I'm looking at your future beyond him coaching me. He's like, I'm looking—

Can you give a shout out to this individual who's very deserving of one?

Eric Blake, Central Connecticut State University. Yeah, praise the roof. Yeah, um, but yeah, he really, yeah, took a long-term approach. And, uh, yeah, I just very vividly remember that conversation, and, uh, it made perfect sense to me because I wanted to rush back. I wanted to be there at the conference meet and go on to regionals and stuff, but, um, ended up not running a single, single race that season because, you know, we, we looked further ahead. Yeah, and it— I mean Yeah, I mean, I ran beyond college. I ran professionally, you know, I still run competitively. So yeah, it definitely paid off.

Backing up just one step from that, like, how much better were you as a high school runner than I was?

I don't know how good of a high school runner were you. I don't know. Like, well, you did you compete at the New England Championships?

Yeah.

What place did you?

Yes, 66th in cross country.

Okay, so I think, I think, uh, you probably got me in cross country. I think I was over 100 in cross country. I don't think, uh, but on the track, the 3200, I was third. I got third.

Oh wow, shit.

And I, out of my league. I don't know if you are familiar with John Ranieri. He lives in Trains here in town. So John Ranieri was like my high school rival. He's a year younger than me, but he was always like half a step better. So like I never won a conference title, never won a state title, never won a New England title because of John Ranieri. And now he lives and trains here in Flagstaff too. And I'm just like, dang it, go away.

That's funny. All right, so. What was your time for 3,200 meters?

I ran 9:16 my senior year.

Yep, really fast.

That was, that was definitely my best time. My mile, I ran 4:27, which is still good, but it definitely wasn't, uh, as comparable to my 3,200. So I always, I, I liked the longer distances. Like, if there was a 5K in high school, I absolutely would have been running the 5K on the track.

Yeah. Longer the better.

Yeah, longer the better. As soon as I got to college, I was doing the 10K my freshman year.

That was—

that's my cup of tea. Yeah.

We'll circle back to that, but I would like to take the opportunity to invite the peanut gallery here to anyone who's got a question for this brilliant, experienced coach and athlete. We'll circle back around. It's fine. Yeah. I always do like a soft call out and then I circle back for a hard call out when I demand that someone asks me. But yeah, the flavor of it is that I'm asking most of the questions. I do not want to ask all of the questions. Like, this is a forum for everyone to take advantage of.

Yeah, just jump in if you guys got questions or maybe live on the chat. I bet, I bet like Nick and my girlfriend Rachel are watching live because they didn't come in person. So throw a hard question out. They'll know that, they'll know the deep stuff, the deep questions.

Yeah, actually, let's jump on that. When you say Nick, who are you talking about? There's a lot of Nicks.

Yeah, there are a lot of Nicks. Nick Arcinaga, 2:11 marathoner.

3-time 2:11 marathon.

3-time, yep. Way before super shoes. Yes, Under Armour shoes, I think, which is basically like a 2:01 now, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean sub-2, I'd say. But yeah, uh, one of the, one of the owners of Run Flagstaff, the local running shoe store here in town, so who organized this race that I'm repping here, organizes the Downtown Mile, um, couple other races, the Summer Series, they have a good hand in. So yeah.

Yes.

So yeah, you just talk about Nick the rest of the time. Yeah, really well. And then when you have Nick on, you can talk about me, right?

Yeah. But, uh, I'm, I'm a fan of Nick. Uh, I first got to know him when he ran his first 2:11, uh, when he was a member of the McMillan Adidas-sponsored McMillan Elite team here. And he came out because I was working for what was then called Competitor Group. Now it's Outside in San Diego. And the company I worked for did the Rock 'n' Roll Marathon Series. And so there was the Rock 'n' Roll San Diego Marathon. And Nick, like, kind of, I think he, I saw him like when he finished, like, he seemed surprised. He was like, what did I just do?

Wow.

Yeah, so like, yeah, but I got to know him then, and then when I was out here in 2017 doing my fake pro runner experience with NAZ Elite, I went to run Flagstaff to buy a pair of shoes, and who sold me the shoes? Like, 2:11 marathoner Nick Arcinaga. I'm like, this is very Flagstaff. Like, how many runners buy shoes from people who are really that good at running.

No, yeah, no, it's— he's amazing, and I've learned a ton from him, just with— probably without him even knowing, just him, us talking and talking about training and races and what, what races to do later on. Um, he's definitely had, you know, a small impact on, you know, what I've done. Uh, I know he, he's really, uh, he never likes doing the same marathon again. So he's run, I don't know, an absurd amount of marathons, but like each one is different. I don't think he's ever run the same marathon twice.

Yeah.

Which is something I wish he had shared with me earlier on because like I've done CIM like 6 times.

Yeah.

And I'm just like, wow, I really should do a different marathon.

Right. Yes.

Like I'm kind of not wasting, but I'm just having the same experience. Like I should explore a little more.

Yes, I'm very guilty of that too. CIM, I think 4 or 5 times, Modesto Marathon 4 times, Boston 4 times.

Yeah, yeah, but you find a good one, right? And exactly, you want to go back. Like, if it's a fast course and you want to run fast, there you go. Um, but I also think there's a lot to be said about just having a totally different experience and finding a harder course sometimes with more hills or different weather, or just traveling to a different city, experiencing different parts of the country or world, definitely.

Yeah, I mean, the most memorable marathon I ever ran was a one-off in Kenya, you know, just ran a marathon in Kenya. I'm like, wow, this is— it wasn't even on my bucket list. It just happened, you know, it's like, wow, shoot. Yeah, so yeah, there's an attraction to going back to special events that like just have a, you know, like, I mean, for Boston, for me, like my dad ran the Boston Marathon in 1983. That's what made me want to become a runner. Like my family trooped down from southern New Hampshire to see my dad run this race. And it was just like that, that event was in my blood. Like I knew I had to run it myself one day. And once I ran it once, I wanted to run it twice. And so on and so on. But Destin, it was in my freaking backyard and it was like super flat and it's like, why not? So like, you know, it's nice to have it actually, like to have those, like if you're going to run a bunch of marathons to like have, have some special events that you do go back to and you just have like this relationship with, but also to explore and like have your Leewa SafariCom marathon.

You don't need to do the same marathon 6 years in a row. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what I ended up doing.

Where's Jenny? Oh man.

Yeah.

Jenny has run the New York City Marathon 18 times.

Oh, wow. I mean, that's a lot. That's kind of cool if you have like a streak, I guess.

Yeah. And yeah, she's a New Yorker.

Yeah.

Yeah. It would be more than that if it hadn't gotten so freaking hard even for New Yorkers to get into the New York City Marathon. Yeah.

So, yes, we have a question from viewer. I didn't catch the name, but the question is, how many new recruits do you have at CCC and how has the program grown since you started?

Oh, all right, well, we're kind of diving into—

love it—

the coaching, my coaching at CCC, so Coconino Community College. Um, yes, super excited for this coming cross-country season because we have 15, uh, incoming recruits, which is our basically the size of our cross-country team last year. We had 16 athletes last year. I'm bringing in 15 just freshmen.

Wow.

Plus our returners, we have about 6 or 7 returners, so yeah, our team is going to be the largest, and that's entering, so we'll have about 21, 22 athletes entering our 4th year ever, and that's up from about 6 athletes we had our very first year. So we had like 6 athletes, and then we had 12, And then 16, 17 athletes last year, and then just continuing to grow up about 22 this year. So yeah, the program's gone from nothing to everything, you know. It's been really, really exciting watching it grow.

Yeah, yeah. So that's like, that's cool, that's really cool to hear. And, and to me, it like It's consistent with what I've experienced and like how programs are developed. Like even NAU, like Northern Arizona University, our local university here, like super powerhouse, at least in distance running, if not in track and field all around.

Well, they had multiple like sprinters, jumpers at the trials. So they're a well-rounded program.

Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't always that way, right? Like, like it had to be built. And like, if you look at you know, when, when, you know, a college university program goes from like off or even high school, like just from nothing to something, it's always a coach, you know, maybe also an administration or an athletic department that like values, you know, that enough to hire a good coach. And then like that is the inflection point. You look like a Vin, Vin Lananna, you know, ran at Dartmouth College like around the time he's older than me. But, but I remember him like he went straight from running for Dartmouth to coaching Dartmouth. He's like, he's 23, he's coaching the guys he used to run with the year before. And like, just like they went from kind of sucking to being great. And then he's at Stanford and then he's at at Oregon. Jeff Johnson, who he was like his— like his epitaph will say, very first employee ever hired by Nike. He's the guy who named Nike Nike. You know, they were called Blue Ribbon Sports. He ended up the girls cross-country coach at my high school. Oh, you know, Oyster River High School in Durham, New Hampshire. Yeah. Jeff freaking Johnson. And, and The year he arrived, the girls cross-country team had one member and they were state champions 3 years later. And like, and it was like, it was like a numbers story. It's like they went from one. He just created an excitement because talent, talent is everywhere. You know, it's like you don't have to like get lucky. I mean, I mean, to a certain extent you have to get lucky with talent, but like, like The reason you see so many of those stories were like exceptional coaches who were just able to like build cultures. They succeed almost anywhere, you know, and you see like it's like there was just one runner and then like there was an excitement built and then like then the talent comes in and then you're off to the races.

Yeah. How can you just build that environment where people are are having fun, are growing as a person, you know, you're gonna attract more and more athletes even if you're not winning, right? Winning definitely helps, but like you can be a pretty mediocre program athletic-wise, but if your athletes are having fun and walking away with a positive experience, your team's going to continually grow, which is, you know, I think I'm focused on at CCC really like having that positive environment and having every athlete have a positive experience, whether they, um, you know, make our varsity squad or not throughout their career. As long as they can graduate and walk away having, you know, that, that positive experience, I think it— like, I had an impact on them. I, I really, uh, let them continue their running career beyond high school that they might not have had that opportunity anywhere else, and I think that can really mean, mean a lot to them. They'll always look back on it in a good way.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm trying to do here, honestly, with Dream Run Camp is, um, I think, I don't know, sometimes, I mean, you have your perspective as dream runners, I have mine as the host and the coach, but, um, sometimes I feel like people, I mean, everyone comes in here with certain expectations. It's like Well, I signed up for this thing and, you know, I signed up for it on the basis of an expectation of what it would actually deliver. And sometimes I feel like people like expect a little bit more of a focus on like X's and O's and like, you know, just like the small, the important but small stuff. Whereas I am like you actually more focused on the experience. Like I feel like You know, it's going to like, like you, like, sorry, Mackenzie, earlier, like you said, like, you know, you went, you suffered a significant injury and it was a long road back and you felt like you maybe like fell out of love with running a little bit. And you're not the first person who's come here, like very different, like some people like much older. Like very different journeys as runners, but, but like in a similar place or like I just like I feel like I want to want this again and like that's like, well, you came to the right place because like that is my number one focus. Like I know more than nothing about the X's and O's of training, but I feel like if I can just deliver a great experience, then you're going to get what you need. Like, it's not for me to decide, like, what any of you need from the experience. And like, yeah, what you just said resonates a lot with—

yeah, I think, yeah, it's kind of— it's learning your athletes, learning the people that come to your camp and stuff, right? Because some of them love the X's and O's. So you got to recognize, you know, which of my athletes come into my office and they want to talk science, they want to talk running, okay? And then which of my athletes come in and they want to talk about the fun weekend that that they had, you know, and like, oh, they hung out with their family and they went to the movies, you know, like you got to just know each individual, like which athlete loves for you to get in their face and like yell at them to wrap, like, yeah, you know, get them excited and pumped up for the race and which ones need to be, you know, have your arm around them and, you know, you talking softly to them and just putting that, you know, that the positive encouragement in their ear, like everyone's different and you need to You can't coach your whole team the same way. You got to know the individuals on a personal level.

Yeah. I want to give one more opportunity for people in the room to ask a question before I just plow ahead. Yes. Another viewer question.

Okay.

Yeah. Cool.

This one's from Rachel Mitchell. What is your favorite place to train in Flagstaff?

Oh, my favorite place to train. Okay, the roadrunner side of me would say A1 Mountain Road. Love that for long runs, 21-mile dirt road loop. Love it out there. As a trail runner, I'm going to say, just because it's like right out my front door, I love Observatory Mesa. I think there's a lot of trails back there that are undiscovered. You can't really go for a 20-mile run there, but like if you got a 5-mile or even 10 miles, like, you can kind of weave your way around those trails and you can get some hills, you can stay flat. But yeah, kind of, it's 2 minutes out my door and I run there almost every day. So got to be, so yeah, some of my favorite trails, which, yeah, I think will probably go against the grain with trail runners. I think a lot of them would say Eldon or Mount Humphreys or something. But yeah, I'll stay a little closer to town. Yes, Observatory Mesa.

Yeah, well, worth pointing out that Observatory Mesa is easily accessible from Dream Run Camp where we sit.

Yeah, I mean, with, uh, what, within a mile you can be on top of the mesa from here. Probably a half mile you're at the base. Yep, you got to climb a little bit. It's a fun one.

Um, shoot, dang, I had one teed up and it's lost. But one thing that kept me from— I waited a long time to start really coaching in a serious way just because I felt like I didn't— I knew really exceptional coaches. It was part of my job as a journalist to interact with really exceptional, like the Ben Rosarios of the world and just a whole a whole bunch of others, and I felt like they have something that I lack. I don't know, just like this kind of like selflessness, like this ability to like really put the person they're guiding above themselves or ahead of themselves. I'm like, I'm just a little bit too focused on me right now. But then I got to a point where I'm like, actually, you know, like I feel, I feel that changing. But anyway, like running, like, like teaching, social work, certain other professions. I wish Jenny were here. She's a teacher. Like, please do it, I guess. Like, it's like it feels like a little bit of a calling. Like there's like a pull on you. It's like, I know this isn't the great, the best way to get rich, but like, I feel like I really want to do this. Did you have that, that kind of moment for yourself?

Yeah, well, I think, I think when I was in college, like, I, I knew I wanted to be a coach. So pretty early on, like, I knew that's the career field I wanted to go down. And I think that is really due to, like, having some awesome coaches in high school and then through college. They really I think they took care of me, and like, because of them, I had a lot of success. So I think that just really instilled to me that I want to almost— I want to grow up to be like them, and I want to instill that success and the confidence and the experiences, uh, into future athletes. Um, so yeah, and then I think, you know, right out of college, I was a volunteer coach at Grand Canyon University, and I think every coaching stop I've made along the way, I've just had some really good mentors and head coaches above me that, like, I, yeah, just kind of reinforced everything that I, I wanted to get into, you know. They were like, they, right, they, they mentored their athletes, but then they also like mentored me as their assistant coach or their volunteer coach, and I learned a ton from them. And then finally, you know, at CCC, I'm the head coach and I'm able to run the program that I want and instill the education into, you know, my assistant coaches that I have.

Yeah, so what does that role look like for you? So, you know, how many students are at Kokomino Community College?

So we have about 3,000 Students, about 500 are full-time students and 2,500 are part-time students and no dorms. So 100%, you know, commuter school or online at this moment.

Yeah. So like, that's a— I mean, it's not a unique situation, but it's like not your situation as a college runner, your situation as a college runner. And so how do you approach that role in terms of competitiveness? We want to be conference champions, or we want to perform at a level that puts us on the map, and which becomes a virtuous cycle because it helps with recruitment. How much of it is because of the specific nature of it, like it's a very small student body, It's not, you know, it's not like a residential, like, like there's no camp, like, you know, dorms on campus.

Yeah, it's not a household name. It's not, yeah, you know, well known necessarily yet.

Yeah.

I think it's a lot of footwork, right? Like I'm going to a lot of high school meets. I'm recruiting pretty hard and heavily within Northern Arizona here. And the biggest thing, I mean, I think just Flagstaff. I drop the name Flagstaff. Like, kids know Flagstaff. They know NAU. They know the professionals that live here. So I can at least grab their attention right there and spark an interest. And then I try really hard to get them on campus. And then once they kind of take that on-campus visit and I'm able to really talk to them, in person, meet mom and dad, show them what we, we have. Like, I think that's the real selling point for a lot of the recruits and the growing aspect of the program. I think a lot of high school kids are just a little hesitant at first until they get on campus and they're like, oh, this is, this is a family. Like, you, like, we, our team is a family. Like, you're gonna take care of me. Like, we're gonna we're going to, you know, help you get into the dorms at NAU, like, because we have a good partnership with NAU. We're going to help you, you know, make sure you're on track with your academics, signing up for your classes, things like that. So really just reassuring that, you know, we're going to, we're going to help them out even if they fail a class or they're not running super fast. Like, they don't get kicked to the curb. You know, they're still part of the family, part of the team. And we're going to help lift them up as best as we can.

Yeah. So the, the sizzle is the steak. You like, you focus on substance and like people who are attracted to the substance of it versus NIL deals or whatever. It's like people who value what you value.

Yeah.

And yeah.

Oh yeah. Focus on the process, right? And then that will yield results. Right? Focus on getting good grades, showing up to practice every day, making sure that, you know, your athletes feel at home, they're not homesick, they're not missing their family too much, you know, that they have everything they need to then put the extra energy into their running. And the easier we can make that, like, the more energy they're going to be able to put into their running and the better runner they're going to become. But if they're constantly wasting all their energy about the academic side of school, you know, that's— they're never going to be the best runner that they can be. So we need to make sure that we have like our academic tutors lined up for them, that we're having weekly meetings about their academics, you know, they're registering for their classes on time, things like that. All that little stuff, just help them out with it, do that extra little footwork for them. And yeah, then they're going to have all that, hopefully that extra focus and extra energy when it comes to practice and running and training.

Yeah. You just were leaning in like you wanted to. Amy has a question. No, I'll ask. I'll ask Amy's question. Yeah. Another thing I've noticed about, like, just like exceptional coaches is that there's just kind of like a, for lack of a better word, like a fanaticism about it. You know, like, I mean, because I've been on both sides of it, you know. I mean, as I mean, you're still an athlete and you're a coach, so you're, you, and you've been coached.

Yeah.

And you see both sides of it. And for me, from the athlete side, one of the things that like you really respond to is a coach that just seems to be like over the top dedicated to you and to, you know, what you're trying to achieve. And just hearing you talk, like, it reminds me of that where it's like so much of it is just the energy that the coach puts into it. Like, the coach doesn't have to be perfect. They don't have to know anything. But if athletes see, it's like, you know, I go back to my experience with NAZ Elite in 2017 when like Ben Rosario. I mean, I had it like I was sort of like an honorary member of the team. I was 46 years old, I was an amateur, but I was part of the group. I was there every day, and Ben treated me like just any of the real, real pros. Um, but, but still, like, I had a little bit more of like a different relationship with him than, than the real pros who were half my age, uh, had. Um, and so like I would see him, like, we would go to— I remember once going down to Camp Verde. So Camp Verde is a place where you can access like in less than an hour from Flagstaff. And it's at like substantially lower elevation and you can run faster, you know, with more oxygen. And we went down, I went down there with Ben one day during my stay here and he pulled like one of those measuring wheels out of his car and like measured the route. And like, I knew he had been in Camp Verde the day before with some of the real pros, and he had done exactly the same thing. Like, there was no need for him to like re-wheel measure the route. But he told me, it's like, I want my athletes to see me doing this. Yeah, like, I want them to see this level of commitment. And attention to detail. Like that's why I'm doing it. Like does the exact distance matter? No, it does not. But it's like, you know, we're gonna act like it matters for like, you know, a larger purpose, which is more cultural.

Absolutely. And I think that's, you know, like I'm still running and training. I think like my athletes seeing me get out there every day and do what I'm doing, like really inspires them or, Like, we— so my whole team, like, our training logs are all on one Excel sheet, so everyone can see exactly what everyone's doing. But I put my training up there too, so they can kind of look forward to, you know, they think whatever, 50 miles a week is super high for them, but then they look at me and I'm running, you know, 90 miles. So maybe that's like, they're like, oh shoot, well, I can't really complain, like, coach is doing this. Um, so yeah, just being, being like an open book like with what I'm doing and hopefully that inspires them as well. You know, if you come into my office at CCC, like I have a couple of my like key jerseys that I've worn throughout my career, like cased up in my office. And that's purely like for when my recruits come, like to like really spark their interest in, you know, the story that I've had. And what I can take away from that to help them in their training and their journey as well. And I think that really does inspire them. Absolutely.

Yeah. Well, let's say a little bit— Story has a question.

Oh, I'm still formulating it.

Yes. Don't you dare lean forward when you're in the audience, because I assume that means you have a question. Yeah, you're teed up.

Okay, this is kind of generic, but I was just wondering if you had a favorite event in high school or college.

Oh yeah, like post-college. Yes, yes, and yes. So, uh, high school and college, I think I definitely— I liked cross-country. Cross-country was, uh, was my jam. That's what I really liked. On the track in high school, the 3200, and college—

5K if they'd had it.

5K, yeah, if they had a 5K. Heck, if they had a 10K in high school, I probably would have— you would have seen me in it. And college, the 10K on the track. So basically the further I could run, you know, the— that's what I always gravitated to. And then yeah, out of, out of college, yeah, road marathon. And then now I've gravitated even further, uh, you know, trail 100Ks, trail 50Ks. Um, hopefully, hopefully get a 100-miler in, in the next year or so. Um, yeah, so just further and further. I don't know if I'm down to do like Pocadona, which is like a 250-mile race. I haven't gotten that far. I'll start with 100 miles.

Slippery slope.

Yeah, I know, right? It's just, it's the next, it's the next progression, right?

Like, now what?

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, we'll see, see where life takes me.

Yeah, you know, oddly, your credentials as like an adult elite athlete have not come up in this conversation very much, but you feel like twice qualified for the Olympic trials marathon, is that right?

Once.

Once.

Yep. So 2020, I qualified. Yeah, qualified with my debut marathon at CIM.

2:15 and change.

Uh, so I debuted in 2:18:23, so the standard was 2:19. Okay. In 2020. And then, um, yeah, I ran 2:15:29 at Grandma's Marathon and at the Marathon Project.

Wait, twice?

Yes, ran my PR twice.

What's that like?

Um, so we— well, we've talked about Ben Rosario. So after the marathon project, he was like, how'd you do? And I was like, I tied my PR. And I was kind of disappointed, but then all it took was he went, it's better than 1 second slow. And I was like, yeah, you're right, right? Like, it would have been that— it would have been 100 times more disappointing being 1 second slower than my PR than it would be to just tie it, right? Because that is— it's a funny story now. Yes, it is. But yeah, I just— I specifically remember Ben, Ben saying that, and it, it stuck with me, and it put a smile on my face, and I was like, that's a great way to look about it.

Yeah.

Could you see the clock?

Oh yeah, I mean, there was, there was a lean, there was a lean at the line and everything, and The person that finished right in front of me was one of my college teammates, um, so like I wanted to beat him too. Oh God, I was just like, I gotta— damn. But he got me by like a second or two.

And you didn't break your PR.

I didn't break my PR. No, no. But it was, it was great because I, I went into that race thinking that I was just gonna run like 2:17, 2:18. Nothing in my buildup was going, going as planned. I was just, I remember talking to my coach at the time and, you know, he was asking my game plan. I was like, I'm just going to go out pretty conservative and like, I don't think my fitness is there. Workouts didn't come together until the last like week or two. And then I just, I found myself in a really good groove and, you know, get to mile 20 or whatnot. And I'm like, oh my goodness, like I'm, this is actually turning into a really good day. Like I just got to stick with this group. Um, so yeah, I mean, I, That was a huge boost in my confidence knowing that I can have a B- build-up training period but still come away with an A+ race.

Okay.

To everybody out there, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. That's what you see when breakthrough— I mean, I don't know if you would call that a breakthrough performance, but you tied your PR. If you look at like the total build that an athlete has to a breakthrough performance and you just grade each and every individual run like on a traditional, like high school, like A+ to F scale, there's going to be a lot of B- runs like in, in the build up to a breakthrough race. Like it's like B-'s are okay as long as there are also some B pluses and A minuses and the occasional— yeah, maybe even one A plus, like that's it.

Yeah, like you don't need to— you don't have to be hitting home runs and grand slams during your training, right? You just gotta, you know, in baseball terms, just get a man on base every day. Just get out there, small ball, small ball.

Yep.

And then, yeah, week after week, month after month, year after year of putting in the work I mean, that probably had a big part to do with it too. Like, I was probably just a more experienced marathon runner at that time. That's probably my 4th or 5th marathon at that time. And so having that confidence, the experience, and then years and years of marathon training under my belt, you know, definitely benefits. It gives you more leeway in having subpar training.

Yes.

But being able to execute still.

Yep.

We have another question from a viewer.

Yes.

Carrie Ellis asks, will CCC add other sports teams like track?

Excellent question. So I don't know if you saw in the Daily Sun just last week, we will be adding track and field, indoor and outdoor track and field, men's and women's in 2025-2026. Yep. And then we are in some, some really good discussions in expanding the athletic department.

Don't look at me, look at him.

So adding, adding sports such as like esports, soccer, basketball, things like that. Those are in discussion, definitely. So yeah, there's some, some good growth going on with Coconino Community College.

I feel like all these questions are coming from people you planted.

I don't think I Who asked that one? I don't think I knew that one.

Incredible. Yeah, it's your following. All right, so don't mind Clementine. So yeah, we'll, we'll wrap it up now. It's really been super cool picking your brain a bit. Yeah. Thankful for the questions from the gallery. We needed to emphasize that in future Dream Run camp get-togethers because when Betsy's reticent and can't come up with a question, if we have our worldwide live audience, that's helpful. So thank you very much.

Yeah, well, thanks for having me.

I'm sorry that Nick and family fed you so much barbecue because we have delicious garden burgers and sweet potato tots for dinner. For anyone who wants it, it's available. You shared your pizza, Amy, so we can share our garden burgers and sweet potato tots. All right, that's it for this week's episode of Dream Run Camp Live. Tune in next week for a special surprise.