Leah Rosenfeld: Mixing Passion With Profession as a Runner and Run Coach

Uh, yeah, so Leah Rosenfeld here, everyone.

What's up, fam?

Right on. Uh, I'll circle back to a proper introduction, um, but the, the date today is actually— I don't even know, is it June 27th? Yeah, 27th. Uh, it's a Thursday as always. Not always, always when we do this. Um, and so we got Olympic trials action going on, and, uh, just to make you all maximal FOMO, like after we do this awesome Q&A together, we're all gonna blitz down to the headquarters of Hoka Northern Arizona Elite professional running team where they're having a watch party because a bunch of their athletes are competing and it's gonna be fun. There's gonna be burgers and bevs. And if you were at Dream On Camp, you could be doing this kind of thing with us. So, you know, Come on, come on over.

Come on out.

The water's warm. Yes.

I also live here and I want to come here. So live like half a mile away.

Yeah, we'll get into that.

I'm going to do a camp here.

Yeah. Just putting it out there. Sweet.

All right.

So we've got a fairly fullish house. A lot of younger runners here, you know, school's out. And so we got some college-age athletes here, which is super fun. Makes a 53-year-old like me feel young. Weather is fantastic. And yeah, it's just an exciting time here at DreamRun Camp. Got the Olympics coming up. So without further ado, I would like to introduce Leah. I'll let her do the better half of the introduction, but we've known each other for a bit. Leah is a very high-level experience runner.

On the trail behind your house dozens of times. Just eyeing this place up because it's just a magical sight. Yep. Of saunas and pools and fire pits in the backyard.

One sauna, one pool.

Yeah, that's true. One of each. But I'm glad to be here. It's nice to actually get to see it all in action with people here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So when I have someone as a guest on Dream Run Camp Live who I know, you know, like I've had people sit down here and I'm meeting them for the first time. That's not the case with us. So I like to just start by asking, like asking you to share with everyone how you and I know each other.

Yes. So we said this was 2017, right?

Yep.

Yeah. So I'm really good friends with Matt Yano, and I came over to his house a few times while this Matt was training here. Was it for Chicago Marathon? Yeah. So yeah, we crossed paths at Matt's house. We went out to dinner together one of the nights, and that was when you were basically training with the NAZ elite team as a pro and— as a pro, whatever— and documenting it for your book that you ended up writing. So yeah, I met you a couple times out there. And then we also, I feel like, have crossed paths more virtually just through the online coaching space.

You did leave out a part though.

What part?

So you actually modeled for my 80/20 Triathlon book, you and Stephen Kirsch.

That's right. I forgot about that.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, that's actually how we first kind of connect. I mean, it was definitely through Matt.

Yeah.

Yeah, like I, I, I was looking for a couple of people to demonstrate exercises for the, for the book, and I was I had to do it there and I'm not from there. I'm like, I just need people. And you and Steven were the ones.

That's right. Now I'm like thinking about that. Yeah, Hypo 2. Yep. That was fun.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, and then another memory. Eventually I'll ask you a question, but like another, like one of my favorite, probably my favorite memory of our interaction is like, so, you know, halfway through my time there, I got this groin injury and it was like very show-stopping. And, you know, you're just like, it was like the ultimate comedown because like I was this high and then I'm like, oh God, it's over. But then, you know, thanks to the, you know, the support I had around me, including Matt, you know, like he was like, just much younger than me, but like just gave me like great counsel. And I was coming around and like, you know, that run, like if you've ever been injured and you have that run where you're like, I'm back. Yeah, yeah. So I was like in the middle of my I'm back run and you, you came by. I don't know if you had like a Land Rover or something. What are you?

Oh, an Xterra.

Okay. Yeah. I'm thinking like a picture also.

Roaming the land.

Yeah, SUV. And you just roll up alongside me on Lake Mary Road and slow down to my pace. And I actually remember, like, you were actually stopping traffic a little bit, a little bit. And you're like, Matt, I heard you're injured. I'm so sorry. I'm like, I'm back.

That's awesome. Yes.

Yeah, if you'd said that 5 minutes ago, you know, I would have said, yeah, it sucks.

It's funny how 5 minutes can make a big difference.

Yes. So yeah, that's a fond memory. But just like, you know, you know, kind of like, I mean, you showed some genuine care, you know, they're like, you were, you were literally stopping, stopping traffic just to like commiserate a little bit, you know.

Well, it's funny how it like, it stuck out to you, but I don't remember. I like kind of remember it happened. I said it happened. Yeah. Yeah. But it's good. That's like, reflective of our community too.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, just exactly. That's why it was like, you know, even if things hadn't turned around for me with the injury, it was just like an unforgettable, magical experience, like, yeah, start to finish. Yeah, yeah, that is pretty special. You were a part of it.

Yeah. And now you're sharing that with other people.

Yes, exactly. I mean, on a large scale, Dream Run Camp was directly inspired by the experience I, I had when we first met.

Yeah, special.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's like, wow, like it's full circle because I haven't seen you much between the inception of this all and now. Yeah.

So where are you from originally?

I'm from Ridgefield, Connecticut. Shout out to anyone from Connecticut. Little old town. Yeah, New England.

Yeah. What was childhood like for you? If it was like super traumatic and I just asked the wrong question.

Oh no, I would talk about that too, honestly. Okay, good. But I grew up with parents who met running and my dad owned a running store called The Athlete's Foot and he would put on road races all around Connecticut, kind of like philanthropic road races for people, like to help any need he saw in the community. So I kind of grew up with showing up at wheelchair races, this race called All Out for Autism, like a cancer race. And I was like this 3, 4, 5-year-old kid, like either participating in the race or pulling bibs at the finish line. So I feel like from a young age, running was just like, and the running community was a huge part of my life. And it, I didn't think twice about it. That's just the way it was. And my parents ran marathons. My brother and I did soccer for a long time. And yeah, I mean, I grew up that way in a small rural town. And it wasn't— and then I got into soccer, I was saying, and it wasn't until like a really crappy failed high school freshman year soccer tryout that I was like, I don't want to do this. Like, and then like for the cross—

Sour grapes?

Yeah, sour grapes. I was like, all my friends made varsity and I didn't. And then the cross-country— captains were recruiting people for the team.

Little— how many times have we all heard this?

Yeah, it's not— it's a very common tale. It's a very common tale.

And here I am.

Wait a second, I was good at riflery. I went to this— I went to summer camp growing up, and, uh, yeah, I was a good sharpshooter with the— in the woods.

Yeah, uh, I—

with—

yeah, you sent a message there.

So maybe biathlon or duathlon, maybe that's something I'll do in the But yeah, failed soccer tryout turned into me wanting to be on varsity, and I didn't know everyone made varsity, so there was that. But luckily I didn't know that to start, so I went—

Mission accomplished.

Yeah, mission accomplished. Yeah, and it was funny, in high school I would— I did cross-country, but I— during track, I always wanted to be a sprinter and do the 400 and than faster stuff. So I would like hang around the sprinters trying to like hide from my coach. I was like, maybe he won't see me, the distance coach, and maybe I can just like fall into their practice while everyone else goes and runs like 4 miles. And eventually I realized I have to use blocks and run faster than I was running. And so I was like, okay, I'll Yeah, I'll move up to the 600, then the 800, and then yeah, just kept moving up. But I was, I was digging my heels into the ground with the distance stuff. I always wanted to be like more middle distance.

Yes.

And I feel like I still am today. Still like, no, I'm not, not a marathoner. I'm doing shorter stuff. Mhm.

Yeah. So you were sort of fated to be a runner. And also, aren't your initials LDR? Long distance running.

That's right. My dad would joke when I was a little baby saying like long distance runner. So yeah, it was kind of something cosmic about it.

You had no choice.

I didn't have a choice.

Blink twice if you need help.

I always say running chose me the day I was dry heaving in the elementary school gym mile. So for whatever, and that's I think very reflective of running. You know, we dry heave in a race, it hurts so good, and then we just keep coming back for more. So I was hooked.

Yeah. So you start in— by the way, anyone present is welcome to fire a question.

Yes, please.

Yeah. You get like secret brownie points if you do ask a question and they are redeemable for a secret prize.

Extra time in the hyperbaric chamber. Yeah.

Yeah, I'll come up with something. Yeah. Yeah, are we about to have a dog video bomb? Yeah, she's—

Maybe.

Yeah.

Maybe we can do an interview with her one of these days.

Yeah, she's— this is not her first appearance on Camp Live. Yeah, so how'd you end up in Flagstaff?

Okay, so After college, I graduated in 4 years. I thought I would have a 5th year. That was the plan the whole time, but I—

Georgetown.

Penn State.

Penn State.

Yeah, and I just had a little too much fun in college. We'll put it that way. And I got, I just like wasn't able to train. I got really sick.

Like tons of late night Dungeons and Dragons sessions.

Yeah. But I was like in the dungeon with a 40 in my hand.

Oh, yeah, right on.

So, and so, I mean, college went pretty well, but I had to redshirt some seasons. So I was going to stay a 5th year. And I got really sick. I had pneumonia for a while my junior into senior year and had to get sinus surgery. So I was just like going through health issues just from burning the candle at both ends for like chronically for a few years. And so I graduated earlier than I thought I would. And I was like, I don't know what I wanna do. Like, I was planning on having a year to figure this out. So I left Penn State and moved to California with my boyfriend at the time. And we coached at Lodi High School. Shout out to Lodi High School, which was like my first official coaching. Stuck in Lodi. Yeah, we were stuck in Lodi like two college kids living with his parents trying to figure it out. And then I, Got connected with the coaches at Syracuse University, 'cause this thing called a grad assistant position became, like, came into my awareness. And I was like, I can get a graduate degree and coach? I was like, win-win.

And it must have paid an absolute shit ton of money too.

I made so much money that I'm coasting off of today. So I went to Syracuse and, oh, well, so it was, they didn't have the position open that year. So I was like, okay, I'll volunteer for a year. And I was just tutoring to make ends meet financially. My parents were helping me out. So I volunteered at Syracuse for a year, hoping I'd get a grad assistant position if all things went well. And I loved it there. But I went to the coaches, USATF coaches convention. That was in, doesn't really matter, it was in Florida that year. And I met Eric Hines, so the NAU track coach. Head coach and director. And he offered me a graduate position in Flagstaff. And my coaching brain was like, what's altitude? Like, how do you coach there? Like, I know something about Jack Daniel's. Like, and I was so young. I was probably like 22. I like didn't really fully understand what it was like to coach at elevation, be surrounded by pros. So I was more curious about coming out to Arizona. So then I said yes and I ended up moving out here in 2012. Yeah, that's what brought me out here. And so I was coaching at NAU for 4 years with Eric Hines. And then now it's evolved since. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we were catching up just a little bit when you walked in the door before we went live and you were telling me like just about about how the last 18 months of your life have been. So, you know, you're someone who came here without like a lot of prior planning or just like, you know, you didn't grow up wanting to eventually move to Flagstaff. You know, it just sort of came about and then, you know, you liked being here, but then you went peripatetic for a year and a half. Just like, you know, just like, you know, just like thinking about like, is there like a better place for me, for the, you know, for future Leah? And now here you are again. So tell us about that.

Yeah, well, just, I bet there's some people out there right now that just looked up peripatetic, and in my brain I was like, what does that mean? So yeah, so I had lived in Flagstaff. I was, I guess to frame it for anyone who doesn't know my story, I was here from 2012 to 2016 coaching at NAU with Eric Hines. And I loved it, but I had this like, I got depressed for like the last year and a half that I was there and I didn't know why. And I met with a counselor in town and we kind of like dug around and I figured out I still had unfinished business with running as many runners do or athletes do or. Whatever you are doing in life. And so I was paralleling my running. I was at all the track meets. I was pacing all these races. But I wasn't fully in it 100% and trying to balance both running for myself and coaching, which was hard to do both at the same time and fully commit. So I left NAU in 2016 after that Olympic trials and ran professionally for Under Armour for a few years. And so I did it. I was like, I'm going to fully invest and yeah, like do the darn thing, which I loved. And I was able to run on the track in the 1500 and 5K and then transitioned, actually like skipped over roads. For some reason the trails were calling. So then I did a 50K and some trail races.

That's unusual.

I know, I know. Yeah. It actually all kind of ties together.

Usually go from the gateway drug to—

Yeah. I always do things backwards. Side note, I was like a coach before I ran professionally, and then I'm now doing like 50K trail stuff before doing a road marathon. It's just like I have like a funny way of going about this maze. But yeah, I trained professionally for a few years and then in, let's see, 2022-ish, I stopped running professionally and was just like, kind of like a third of a life crisis in my 30s where I was like, what am I doing? Like, I want to like have a family one day. I want to like financially be more stable because running professionally like was not cutting it. So, and I had never lived in a city before. I've always lived in small towns other than Penn State, which is like its own little city. But I was like, what else is out there? I've been in Flagstaff for It was like 10 years or so. And I was like, I'm single, like I'm in the mountains, where is this person? Like, yeah, running was going well, but not so I could make ends meet and like provide for myself off of that. So I was like, I'm gonna deep dive into my coaching business and like really invest more time in that. And so yeah, this past, it's like 2023, I started traveling. I went to Argentina for several months and was working remote there, and then went to LA for a few months, and it was actually kind of cool because it really was this life crisis. I didn't feel like a crisis. It felt like this is a—

Sounds a lot like Eat, Pray, Love.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Without the breakup.

Yeah, yeah, totally. This was like a moment to— to totally change how I was going about my life and experience new things and do, put a lot of intention into things that I had talked about for decades and had never done, like acting, and I got really into improv. And so I went to LA and I was like, I'm taking these classes. I'm gonna do everything that I talked about as a little kid that I just put on hold for my whole life. And put running on the back burner 'cause running was like so nourishing for a while, but then it started to just distract me from expanding my life and like experiences. So I was like, we're doing a world tour for a year and a half.

You're wise beyond your years.

I mean, it takes being really uncomfortable to get to those places. So, but yeah, so I was like bouncing around in cities, Feeling very, very stretched, like mentally in every way possible. Like having to make friends in a new city and like feeling super uncomfortable with like, I was alone for a lot of the time. I was like, where's my community? Because it's like Flagstaff was this like really comfortable, tight-knit little community. And then I'm just like, I felt like a flower that was like picked up out of the ground and my roots hadn't been planted anywhere. And they were like shriveling up. They're like, where? —like we're like trying to find like where to be planted again. That's how it felt like. And it was really special because I got comfortable with like being really uncomfortable outside of running and like how I was living my life and how I was communicating and being with people and experiencing, yeah, just a lot of new things. And it opened my eyes to like just living in a different way. And I was like, I want to come back to Flagstaff. This whole like 18 months was definitely like a realization that I love the community here. And at least for me, and I do know a lot of other people, it's unlike anything I've ever experienced, uh, and how supportive this place is. And like how Flagstaff is like a small enough place you can feel like held and at home and like comfortable. But also like an expansive enough place where like you have space to screw up or experiment or like change how you're being or the career that you have and like people will support you. And there's like different communities. There's running community, which is like such a big presence here. But then like I've gotten to know other communities. Like I've gotten really into like this dance community and there's like all different, amazing, fascinating people that live here. So it's all to say I'm really glad I'm back here, and I never wanted to live here in the same way that I was living. So I'm kind of in that phase now where I'm like getting my bearings of like, I don't want to live the pro runner lifestyle that I was. I loved it. It's like being at summer camp. Like, yeah, it's so— yeah, it's all the things.

You're living the dream.

Yeah, it is living the dream.

Yeah, really, really hand to mouth, but living Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

But yeah, I was like, I want to live here differently because I want to do different things with my life now and in the future. So kind of navigating that right now. Yeah.

So that was excellent. But rewinding a little bit to where you— your starting point. So the reason I probably couldn't be a therapist is that I tell everyone, they have unfinished business with running. It doesn't matter if you never run a step in your life. Yeah, like I'm that, I'm that influence. It's like you've got unfinished business. So, uh, yeah, I like that.

Yeah, because, well, because I think you can integrate running into your life. It's such a like natural form of what we do and how we're supposed to naturally move. It's like We always have unfinished business because we're always supposed to be like running to catch our prey or whatever. And if that could be a goal, it could be a literal sense of catching something or running around to frolic. Animals get the zoomies all the time, so do we. We have pent-up energy that we got to get out. Running is just such a natural instinct.

Not right now, but— Yeah.

She had them earlier probably. But yeah, I think running is such like an innate part of humans. So it's like we're never done doing it, but maybe it just like transforms how we do it.

Yeah. Yeah. I have one of— I have a sister-in-law who is a therapist and I've talked to her about this. Like, if I were a therapist, I would prescribe running for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like it's so universal. It's part of what makes Stream Run Camp work to the extent it's working?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, people are coming.

Yeah, well, it's just like, you know, like running is— it is one of the most universal things, you know. It's amazing the, the breadth of different kinds of people who find, find running, you know. It's a— it's really part of the fun of doing what I do here It's just a different journey for everyone. Of course, maybe you can make broad categories or like, oh, you're super competitive or you're more like a nature lover or whatever. But it's like, yeah, it has such a broad appeal.

Yes, it does. It's like a limitless spectrum of people and ways you can go about it too, which is really fun because I feel like Growing up, I was more running on the track and then trails, and now I'm doing more road stuff. But I also will run in the woods and climb, like run, hike, climb up Mount Elden and the slabs, and just literally run in sandals, in jeans, or at sunset, 'cause I just have pent-up energy I wanna get out. It's like you could just run for any reason. Yep. Yeah.

So I have a— well, any questions from the group? Because I can keep going. Yeah.

Yes.

Shy bunch.

If you feel that urge, I always think whenever someone's like, do you have a question? Like on Zoom or in like this kind of setting, it's always like if you have like this little tickle feeling in your chest, that means you want to say something. Yes, we got one.

Indulge your tickle. What was your experience growing up at Penn State like?

Ooh, this is fun. I haven't like talked to anyone about this in a long time. Well, Penn State in general, like as a university, was really cool to be a part of because their athletics are at such a massive scale. So they really invest in their athletes and their well-being, and there's like thousands of the athletes. And running specifically, it was really fun because our— it was really fun because it was competitive. And at that time in my life, that was like pulling me into it more and more. So like our conference meet, the Big Ten Conference, it literally— like for cross country, especially for indoor and outdoor track, it felt like going to war. Like we were like coming up with these like battle cheers, like to hype everybody up. We were like putting on face paint. Yeah, it was so intense, but for me at the time, it was like so fun. I was like, it made it feel even more meaningful in whatever way was meaningful at the time. But it was like, and it was cool because the people were really good and competitive in our conference and other conferences. So like you'd line up for the 1500 finals at Big Ten, And then like half of those people were at the 1500 final or at least in the prelims at NCAAs. So it was like really competitive, which kind of like got me going. And yeah, it was just like the facilities were great. It was like we were well-funded, so we got to travel to like Oregon. We went out there when they were ranked number 1 in the country, the men's and women's team. This is like back in probably like 2008 or '09 and got to race out there. So we had a lot of opportunities to race at bigger meets. And it was a fun group of women that we were running with. There was one day where we— well, there's a lot of snowy days in Pennsylvania. But on one run in particular, we had to do this 70 or 80-minute-long run inside. So it was around our 200-meter indoor track. And we had like a—

Still better than the treadmill.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, in some ways. I don't know, all the iFit people might have something else to say about that. Oh, sorry. Oh, shit. But we were just playing games the whole time, like I Spy with my little eye. So just like those moments, you know, those like little moments make a big difference over the course of like your college or running experience. And yeah, we felt like very connected as a team. And I still am like really close with the, women that I was recruited with. So I loved it. Yeah, it's good, good, uh, fun and competitive combination. Hard fun. Hard fun. Yeah. I was wondering if you had a favorite event in college and if that like changed in any way when you were a pro. Yeah, favorite event in college, it was the 1500 for sure. Um, I still like, I'm not quite sure what it is about that event. Maybe it's like the combination of like endurance and the strength and speed you need. But I loved the 1500 in college.

You said you dug in your heels moving up from the 100, right?

Yeah, like the, well, the 400.

Of course you loved the—

yeah, I love the 15. And my coach was like, you're, you're doing well at cross country, like maybe you should do more 5Ks. And I only did I think one my entire college career. But when I went pro, I still like was doing the 1500. It was like just my love. It was such a fun event. And I— but I gradually started transitioning to the 5K, which I like. I, I don't think I've like had enough practice in that event to even like race it as well as I potentially could, but After I did the 5K, I then went all the way up to the 50K. So that was like a big transition where I just, I did go through something traumatic with my family and like physically just had some like injuries from it. And so I like could not handle the intensity of track. It was interesting. It was like the track, like workouts, the energy there, if, if you have something going on internally, sometimes it can like trigger it and you're just like too— it's too stressful. So I transitioned to the trails, which I think is like pretty common of people that have gone through traumas or anything like really difficult in life. Yeah. Can like— there's just like this—

the longer the better.

The longer the better. And like, yeah, you have, you have a lot of mental toughness built up and hard-won wisdom from those experiences. But it's also like the trail community and the actual trail environments like has this softness of like, you can run any pace you want. Yes, you can go like be really immersed in nature. Like there's like a healing quality about it. So I actually asked local Rob Krar if he would coach me, uh, in the 50K. This was 2021 into 2022. And so he coached me in the 50. So I literally went from the 5K to the 50K and have not trained for anything in between intentionally. Amazing. So I'm like circling back to that now. But yeah, Thanks for asking. This is fun, the questions. Yeah. Uh, do you have any— what's your current goal running or coaching? Yeah. Oh, or coaching. Yeah. Um, well, running goal, they're, they're loose goals now. I'm signed up for New York City Marathon in the fall. So that's actually technically going to be my first road marathon because I've only run longer than it or shorter than it. So I'm really, really excited to run the marathon. And just, it's cool after having run for 20+ years to get to do a new event, you know, like completely new experience because I haven't even trained on the roads for any length of time, even though I coach all road runners and mostly marathoners, which is funny. So I'm excited for that. And like long-term goal, I would love to qualify for the 2028 Olympic trials marathon and just experience that. Yeah, you too.

No, that's, that's not what that meant at all.

I'm just like, do you need a clarifier? You never know. People at all ages are doing this.

Look at her go. Yeah.

Um, but it's cool because I almost like want to give myself now a shot at just like approaching elite running in a different way because I feel like I've changed a lot over the past few years and just my approach to it now is way different than it was several years ago. And yeah, um, yeah, and maybe a lot of ways I'm trying to think of some, but I want to, yeah, give myself a chance to just see how it could go. And like you learn so much along the way, it's like a whole new experience all over again. Yeah. And then coaching goals, I mean, I'm growing my coaching business right now because I— my goal in coaching is to like really harness all the information and all the lessons I've learned and experiences I've had, which I'm sure you can relate to, like through running, through living in Flagstaff, through being around literally the best runners in the world and learning, and best coaches in the world. And like learning from them. And I wanna take it and make it digestible and easily accessible for people of any age or ability. So I'm doing that with my coaching business now where it's like, yeah, just channeling everything I've learned and trying to make it easy for anybody to do. 'Cause it's like at the end of the day, you can take, right, like an elite runner's training program and tweak it just slightly and definitely pace-wise and then anyone can do it. Like it's not like, The pros are doing this stuff. They're doing it at a faster, more intense level, more consistently. But yeah, it's like closing the gap between— Right. Yeah. What we like, we praise these pros and they're amazing people, but like we all are. And yeah, we can all do this whole running thing in a big way and have fun with it. Yeah.

Yeah. You're speaking my language. Yeah.

Yeah. You get it. So yeah. So coaching-wise, it's really fun to be able to do that now. And still always learning and like, yeah, wanting to share that with people.

Yeah, it's funny how we kind of came to that same place from different paths because like, you know, me, I was like an amateur who just gave myself permission to act like a pro.

Yeah, which literally, and like for people watching this, it's like anyone, and you're all doing it here, it's like you can do that at any moment with running or anything else in your life. You're like, what is it, Steven Pressfield's book, Turning Pro, The War of Art? I don't know if you've read it, but highly recommend those books, but it's like, and your books, but for like turning pro, it's just, it's like really a mindset. It's just like, and then adjusting your life accordingly. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a post, I don't know if you saw it on your tour, but there's a poster on the wall in the recovery lounge. Elite is a state of mind.

Yeah, yeah, that same note. And it's cool, like, I admire you because—

yeah, she admires me.

Yeah, I admire him because it's like you look at what happened after you decided to like train like a pro and move to flag, or like an elite in it, you know, like take something that you were curious about and do it really intentionally. And then like you've written books about it, like you've created this camp, like hopefully you're inspiring a lot of other people. I wrote a book about it.

Here you go, guys.

But I'm sure it fuels your other books. That's true. That's true. There's one. One. There's one. But there's now this like Dream Run Camp and the live podcast, like podcasty interviews that you're doing. So yeah, think about Who knows what would have happened if you chose not to do that? Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. Don't feel singled out. All right. I got one. Yeah. What's it like to— because I struggled with this. It's actually one of the reasons I didn't start coaching in any serious way for a long time. Is that I'm like, I'm too focused on me, you know, like I'm an athlete and I just, I feel like, because I knew a lot of really good coaches, I'm like, those coaches, like, they lie awake at night thinking about their athletes' problems. I'm like, that's not me. I lie awake at night thinking about this athlete's problems. But then, you know, And then I just started coaching anyway because I did want to become a good coach even if I recognized I wasn't going to start off as one. But I was still getting after it as an athlete myself. And it seems like you're kind of in that place too where for some people it's like I'm an athlete and then I stop being an athlete and then I start being a coach. You said you started coaching even before. Yeah. And then now, you know, you still, I don't know if it's unfinished business, but you're still exploring like as an athlete, like in a very committed way, but you're also very serious about the coaching piece. Like, you know, it's like, I don't know, to me it sounds like, you know, like a band, like a jazz trio where like the saxophonist and the bass player and the drummer have like slightly different styles actually, but like they can find a way to make the sound hold together and it's actually better because of the tension among styles. So like how do you balance those two roles? Like, you know, trying to be like equally committed to both. Gosh, yeah. Yeah, recognizing the tension.

I love the way you just framed that and like it is like a dance between instruments and everything and I, I like that you even used like 3 different people being involved, 'cause it's like, yeah, it's like my own running for myself, coaching other people, and then there's this like unknown X factor that's kind of created out of that tension. And I, it is interesting. I do feel the tension every once in a while where it's like if I'm really, really invested in coaching and my business, I can easily lose myself a little bit and like not prioritize running and be like, okay, I could be writing up these training plans or go out for my run. And I'm like, well, 6:00 AM, I'm feeling productive, like let me work all day instead, you know? And so that can easily happen. But what I've found that seems more sustainable with me is like when I was running just for me, definitely had elements of— I don't know, I just had this like unsatisfied feeling that I initially thought it was because I wasn't doing as well or running as fast, uh, but it wasn't that. It was really like I wasn't sharing it with others. Like, I wasn't really posting on social media. I was kind of just like in my little box doing, yeah, my thing with people around here, But understanding that, like, yeah, the more I share it and help other people do the same or like, yeah, help them reach whatever goals they have, I definitely find there's more fulfillment. And then at the end of the day, it's more connection. So it's like I love— I look at it as like I love running and I like going through ebbs and flows of just running to run because I purely enjoy it and then running to reach goals. And I'm coming off of a running to run phase and like slowly transitioning into a run to accomplish some goals phase. And that definitely honors like just my own sense of self and instincts and drive and it motivates me and creates these experiences I wouldn't have otherwise that kind of fuel my coaching. And that it's kind of like a yin and yang and then like the runners that I coach and work with they fuel me maybe even more than my own running sometimes where it's like running's connection to self and then coaching's like connection to others. And there's connection to nature and like the world when you're traveling and feeling connected to runners around the world, like such a large scale. But when I started understanding that I just look at it as this yin and yang thing where I like to have both, that are kind of flowing together and fueling each other with running for myself and coaching that I don't know, I guess I honor both and I give each the space that it needs throughout the day or the week and it doesn't look perfect ever really. I'm still trying to find a better— and I work for myself remotely so like time management is like always something I'm playing with and I'm still trying to balance that out but I think just the way I'm viewing it where I welcome helping other people and like I want to coach other people and like I want to feel that connection to them. And then I want time on my own to run because it like helps me feel more connected to myself. So it's kind of ebbing and flowing. And then there's definitely like good tension. And I think like looking at it the way you framed it, it helps so much, right? Just like viewing it in that way, right? Where the tensions a good thing. Um, and I think the tension's what keeps both connected at the end of the day. So I'm just playing around with it, you know? Yeah, trying to do both.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's doable. It is doable, I, I like to think anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, cool. Like, uh, we will, uh, we'll round this out because we got some Olympic trials action to watch and some burgers eat, don't worry, you're going to have vegan dirty rice. I'm talking about— yes, yes. But I wanted to give you an opportunity because I dissed treadmills. I'm a big treadmill. It's like, tell us a little bit about like— because I was like, when we were connected before, it was like your pre-I-Fit gig. And so tell us about that.

Yeah, there's pre and post-I-Fit gig. Your life's never the same after I-Fit. I just talk about my experience with them? Sure.

Yeah, yeah.

So I got involved— it's so funny. So I heard about iFit. This was like probably like 2016 or '17. Tommy Rives, our local hero up on the wall— shout out to Tommy, we love you. Um, he would mention— I would go on runs with him and he would mention iFit and be like, you would be good at it, like you should get involved, I can like connect you with them. I had no idea the scope of what it was. I was like, I just didn't know. There's no awareness around like how amazing—

like I can model for Matt's 80/20 Triathlon?

No, no, not yours. No way. That was fun too, but I just didn't understand the reach it had and the community that it created and no clue. So I was like, yeah, whatever. I'm too, oh, I was in a phase. I'm too busy running professionally. I don't have time to like apply to this or like audition. 'Cause you had to film yourself. That was literally the problem. You had to film yourself running a workout. And I was like, but I'm already doing a workout. This is like my narrow mindset. I was like, I'm doing a workout. I can't, oh my God, I can't do another workout. Then I'm gonna be tired. I might get injured. You know, like that rabbit hole. And so for years I was like, okay, whatever, didn't pursue it. And then in 2021, one of their casting agents reached out to me, DM'd me and slipped into my DMs. And I was like, not creepy at all. It was great though. I'm so glad that he did. And so I did audition then. I was definitely coming out of the, pro running mindset and being like, what else is there that I can do? I didn't know what that would be. So it was good timing. It was during the pandemic and that was like a moment of pause to reevaluate a lot of things for myself, as I'm sure a lot of other people. So I was open to it. And then I auditioned, they flew me out to California. I did like another audition there before, just so they're like, are you a real person who knows things and can talk all right on camera? You know, like, yeah, they need to know that they're getting—

person test.

They took me on the real person test.

That won't matter. Yeah, soon.

Um, yeah, yeah, it could be an AI test. Uh, and so yeah, it worked out and we went to Costa Rica to film the 10K series and then, uh, the Azores Islands off the coast of Portugal. And we've done a live 5K in Minnesota, which was really cool doing the live events. It's like Inception, so like I'm there with a lot of iFit— a lot of the iFit community are invited to this race. So it's like I'm leading them in the race, but then I'm also being filmed so that anyone around the world on their treadmills can like run the race live, and the people in the race can put on headphones and listen to me coach them through the race. So there's just like so many levels of like connection and coaching and like We're here in person, but it's on this huge scale, which is like one of my favorite things to do, honestly, is live races. That was— it was such a dream job, like that phase. And I'm still working with them. I'm like partnering with them in NordicTrack and highlighting how amazing it is to run on NordicTrack treadmills with iFit and tour the world. Shout out. They have a series where you can hike up to Everest base camp that actually won an Emmy Award. So it's like really cool how you could travel there. And then a lot of those trips inspire people to like go visit these places. Like a lot of people who've done my iFit series in Costa Rica and the Azores like actually then plan trips there because they're like, we've spent 20— no, it was like 32 runs in this place learning about the local community and the flora and fauna and the trails and just seeing the beauty of the country. And they're like, we want to go there. So for me, it was like, I— it connected running, it connected coaching. I got to like learn. I was like pushed to learn about the local communities, which is really special, um, and then share it with people. So I like— it helped me learn it even more and just like have a deeper appreciation and understanding of the land we were running on and who was there originally, you know? And it was a bit of acting. And I told, like, I wanted to act when I was a little kid. And so I was able to do that on camera and do improv. Like, I had taken improv classes online during the pandemic because when it went online and that—

All part of the master plan. Totally.

It all came together. Like, had I not done that, improv classes, I wouldn't have been confident to be on camera live. No way.

It can be really hard. It can be the hardest thing you ever do. Totally. Yeah.

So following my curiosity early on definitely helped pull all these threads together and like wove it into this beautiful iFit 10K series and a few other things that we filmed. And yeah, I love it. It's like a dream job. Yeah.

Sounds like a very, very, very cool random experience. I know.

And now, and now, like, I don't know if they're tuning in, but like, I'm able— I was coaching a lot of runners through this like, uh, treadmill platform, but I wasn't like able to talk to them one-on-one. And now through my coaching business, because I've opened it up to more runners, like, I get to talk, I get to Zoom with them and coach them one-on-one privately. And it's like such a— yeah, it's a really— it's a cool gift to like get back. I feel like, like, yeah, right on. Yeah, cool.

Living your best life.

Living the best life. Yeah.

All right, so shoot, that went on a little. I was hoping to get to Nazli by 6 PM. We're, we're not— we're gonna be a little bit late, so we're gonna shut down. Thank you so much, Leah. Thank for y'all for firing questions at us. Uh, uh, that's it for this episode of Dream Run Camp Live. See you next Thursday. Thanks, Matt.

It's been a dream.