Live With: Alice Wright

Brought to you by 80.20. Endurance. As always, we're coming to you from the dream house in Flagstaff, Arizona. I would like to, before I get any further, give a shout out to some of the people who are viewing live. Uh, Torian family. In addition, we've got Lauren as always behind the camera. We've got a return dream runner, Bill, in the house who got horribly lost yesterday and will never live it down. But alive and well, thank goodness. Shout out to Wade also, Dream Runner in the house, has been here for 2 weeks, sadly is leaving tomorrow, and helped rescue Bill. We've got— I'll introduce Alice last, but Alice is one of her— she's a coach as well as an athlete, and one of her athletes, Chris, rang the doorbell about 10 minutes ago. You know, We do, this is like a hybrid event where it's live and in person. So if you're local for any one of these, we do them just about every Thursday. You are welcome to be here in this space and take advantage of this cool opportunity. Our guest this week is Hoka Northern Arizona elite professional runner, Alice Wright. Welcome, Alice.

Thank you.

Yeah, and you're not a stranger to this space. Can you, by way of introducing yourself, say a little bit about your past experience with Dream On came.

Yeah, um, sorry, do you want me to introduce myself as well? Yes, yes. Okay, so I'm originally from England, um, and then I moved in 2013 to attend University of New Mexico. Um, I was there for 5 years and went through the whole NCAA system under Coach Joe Franklin. Then I moved in 2018 to Flagstaff to be part of NAZ Elite. Um, I was coached by Ben Rosario and then Alan Culpepper and now Jack Malaney. So Yeah, here I am. And I've been to the Dream Run Camp before. I've been very fortunate to use the great facilities here, like the hyperbaric oxygen chamber. I think that's all overused, right?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're aware of the other amazing things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know I need to do that.

That's the one that is— well, I mean, you know, it's like $500 a pop if you pay for it, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so we have one.

Yeah, I'm really, really grateful for that. I feel like it was really beneficial for me.

Right on. Free to you. I mean, it's one of those things where I don't want you to feel you need it, but if you feel you need it, I want you to know it's there.

Yeah, I used one before in Sedona, and I felt like it really helped me with the recovery aspect of things. So, it was really useful for me to be able to use this one and not have to pay every single time. So, I'm very appreciative of that.

Right on. Yeah, that's what we're all about here, spirit of generosity at DreamRun Camp. So, I wanted to actually start from the beginning with you, rewinding. You gave us a little bit about your background, but you know, Early childhood, pre-running, can you just talk a little bit about where you're from and the before?

So I'm from Aberleigh, which is like a small village in Worcestershire, which is a county in England. I grew up with my two sisters and my parents, very close-knit family, just in honestly a tiny little village. It was like 45 minutes into the town. So a lot of my childhood was like country walks to the pub and just very probably like typical English things. And I went to school in Worcester, so it was like a 45-minute bus commute every day, which was bit of a grind. Um, and I played a lot of field hockey there. Um, I was actually very big into field hockey, and then I feel like at the age of like 13, I kind of had to choose between field hockey and running. Um, running was something I always did, but it wasn't necessarily one of our school sports as such. Like, we did do school competitions, but I felt like it was very focused on hockey, netball, rounders, and tennis. I will— I feel like most people probably don't even know what those ones are out here, but Um, yeah, that was kind of more of like the school sports. Um, so I joined Worcester Athletic Club, and I was very fortunate to be coached under a great guy called Dave Walker, who I'm to this day very appreciative of, you know, really progressing my running career. I feel like from a young age and making sure I really enjoyed it from like the age of, you know, 13 until I went to college. And I feel like that's the most important thing really for like running as a youngster. I think you can't enter that world of like the pressure and everything. You've just got to enjoy it at that age. I think that's like true to, you know, your whole running career, but I think especially at that age, enjoyment is like the biggest part of it. And I feel like Dave really helped me with that. So, um, yeah, I did all the English school competitions, and, um, when I was about 15, I got a foot injury. Um, and just, you know, I think the NHS in England is amazing, but if you have a very like sports-specific injury that isn't, um, I don't know, something that needs like immediate attention, you know, it's very hard to get scans and MRIs and stuff done. So one of the main reasons I came, and I was just telling Bill, it is Bill, right? Yeah. I was just telling Bill that one of the main reasons I actually came to America was to get an MRI because you could just get them the next day. So yeah, Joe Franklin pretty much sold me on that initially.

Yeah, shoot. Yeah. So just rewinding a little bit, the athleticism, you know, obviously you didn't just develop a love for running, thanks in part to Coach Walker, but you had a talent for it. Was there, did you get that from your mum, your dad?

I wish I could say I did, but no, neither of my parents run. My sisters rode and my eldest sister, she still rows. But no, honestly, my parents, no kind of inkling to run. I sometimes played tennis with my mum a little bit when I was growing up. I have to say my parents probably wouldn't, I wouldn't put them on the running spectrum.

Yeah. How about, you know, because it's a very, you know, it's a mentally intensive sport. So, you know, the psychology that you bring to running, is any of that from?

Yeah, definitely. I think the right gene, like my dad's gene is very competitive and determined. So I probably get that from him and I would say Probably my athleticism probably does come from my mum's side. Um, his dad— my— I'm sorry, my mum's dad was a cyclist. Um, so I think, yeah, hopefully it was just like the perfect combination of genes. But I think, to be honest with you, like, I grew up in Worcestershire. It is, you know, it's like a— it is a big county, but it's not— it's not one of the biggest ones by any means. And it was quite a small town kind of feel. And I think I was lucky that, you know, I was I guess, um, I hate the expression like a big fish in a small pond, but I think that I just— I didn't have a huge competition, I don't feel like, at the time. So it really fostered, you know, I felt like I was, oh my God, I'm, you know, I'm doing so well in these competitions. But had I actually been in America, who knows like where I would have come, because the depth is just huge out here.

Yeah.

Um, but it is funny now because there are so many good runners in England that have actually come out of Worcester Athletic Club. Um, quite a lot of the top female runners seem to be right now seem to have all come out of Worcester Athletic Club. So, um, I don't know, I find that quite interesting because it's such a small— it is a small town, really.

Yeah, yeah. Um, shoot, I had another question queued up, but that's interesting because, you know, uh, the great Arthur Lydiard said like you can find talent anywhere, you know. So he was from tiny New Zealand and then he coached, you know, 3 people to medals at the 1960 Olympics, and it was because he was a really good coach and he knew how to create a culture. Is that sort of what, uh, is going on in, uh, Worcester?

Yeah, I'd say so, probably. I think, um, a lot of it for me was I loved, like, winning, and I was very fortunate that I could do that in, like, the school competitions. And, um, I think that really, like, helped progress me as an athlete because it just kind of gave me that, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Just like, I just wanted to continue to keep seeing like how far I could take it, really. Um, so doing like the school cross-countries, um, I really started off doing like cross-country. Um, the one thing I do regret not doing more of was like the shorter distances. I feel like a lot of people start by doing like the 100 meters and the 200 meters, and then they do the 400 meters. And I pretty much just came home from school and was like, I'm just gonna go for a run. And like, it was just all very endurance for me right from the beginning. And I feel like maybe I've missed out on a of like fast twitch kind of, I don't know, like development. Yeah. Like growing up because I just went immediately into long distance running and I feel like I skipped a few of the like maybe the sprint, the sprints. Yeah. Which I'm paying for now. Yeah.

Water under the bridge.

Yeah.

Yeah. So can you, for the, well, we're all Americans in this room here and most people watching also, Here we're used to like, you know, sports are almost entirely school-based. And where in the UK there's more of like, there are school sports, but there's also like a pretty robust, you know, club program. And so for running, for you was club, not school.

I mean, I did do some school competitions, but for me it was predominantly, I did all of my training, I would say. Actually, I'm pretty sure I did do the majority of my training at Worcester Athletic Club. I think the club system is great because it allows you to train with— it doesn't kind of pigeonhole you into just training with the people that you have at school. It allows the people that are into running and interested in running go to one place, and then you all train together. And I do feel like that develops, um, you know, your running a lot better than maybe it would if you were just stuck in like the school system. So, right, I'm Team England on that one.

Right on. Yeah. How about when you look further ahead? I know it was a little bit like accidental, like your reason for coming here was like super specific.

Yeah.

Not kind of a master plan, but like, you know, rewinding, if you were, you know, if your mindset at that time was, I want to see how far I can go with this sport. If you, you know, if you'd understood like what the opportunities were at home and what the opportunities were here in the States, I mean, would have that— would that have been a reason to come here independent of needing an MRI?

Yeah, I think so. When my elder sister— she's 8 years older than me— when she went to university, it was free, I think, for everyone. And then when my second sister went to university, it was only free if you're doing— I think it was like medicine, like government-based jobs. And then I think for me it would just— it was like a blanket, everyone has to pay. And so I think financials definitely went into it for me because it was like a full ride scholarship, which I think like incredible and so lucky to have had that. Um, I think that was huge. I always knew, like, I'd always had altitude as well as something like I'd always wanted to try. I didn't know a huge amount about it at the time, but, um, I was telling Bill that Joe Franklin was saying, oh, Paula Radcliffe, Mo Farah, and stuff have trained in Albuquerque, like you'd love it out here. And I, I think those were kind of buzzwords for me at the time, so I was pretty much sold on that. Um, but I also, I was pretty like, I'm a I'm quite an independent person and I do really value, like, I think I was maybe a little stuck in like the small town vibe and I wanted to like do something kind of bold and go to America and just like break out of the system a little bit. So yeah, it was really like the thought of New Mexico and going somewhere completely different. So like anywhere else was really exciting for me. And yeah, I don't look back on it at all. I'm so grateful that I made that decision, but it was very random, I have to say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, uh, I mean, could you have imagined then? Because we're going back to what, 2014?

Uh, yeah, I think it was 2013 when I moved. Um, and I pretty much had a disastrous first year. I really did. I think it was a big cultural shock for me. You know, I'd come out of living a small-knit family in a little village in England to New Mexico, which I just feel like couldn't be further from—

pretty different.

Yeah, pretty different. Um, I think Yeah, there was just a lot of cultural differences. The food's different, like everything. There's just— everything is— I know obviously we speak the same language and we're like developed countries, but it's— aside from that, I did feel like there was some huge changes. And just the academic system in the US is so different as well to the British system. Um, so that was shocking. And I was telling Bill that I'd visited Boston beforehand, and I, um, that was so much more similar to England, right? Yeah, that I was almost— I knew it was like a desert, but I was just— I was— I guess I was expecting it to be a little more similar to like Boston. I feel like Boston's more similar to England than it is to Albuquerque.

It's New England.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, it was— it was like very different when I— when I went there and my running really suffered. I feel like in the first year I call it my social networking year.

Right.

But then I felt like I got my act together. I went home like that summer and I was like, I might lose my scholarship if I don't like fuck up here. So then I kind of came back with a vengeance, um, that my sophomore year, right, that's the second year. And then, uh, fortunately I redshirted my whole first year, so I kind of just had the rest of the, the remainder of my NCAA years ahead of me, which was, um, great. So, yep. Yeah.

Um, like to open up the floor. Yeah, Wade is always good with the questions, ready to go. Yes, I will hand you my mic, uh, so we can hear you.

So I have two nieces listening right now, Kylie and Caroline, and I would love it if you could talk a little bit about when you were younger and perhaps developed a love for running. Yeah, what that looked like, how, how it grew, and just, you know, maybe a little bit about what inspired you then.

Um, I think for me, um, I, as I said, I love competing and I love doing school sports days, and my family, you know, maybe they're not runners, but they are— we're a very competitive and I feel like, you know, that feeling of winning and like, oh, my family is so proud of me. I think that was a big thing for me. But I also think the club that I went to, I was— it was more of like a social thing for me. I had this great group of— it was like a group of guys and there was like a couple of girls and we all just got on so well. And I felt like I really looked forward to that, not just for the running, but for the social aspect. And I think having that community is so important, as I say, just to enjoy it as a young age and just not having that too much pressure. Um, but yeah, I just really looked forward to like the traveling. I felt so fortunate anytime I got to travel with running, and that was huge for me. And then the idea of qualifying for teams and representing my country, um, that was huge, and it really helped my progression through the sport. I actually feel— I really feel sorry for like American runners because the depth is just so— it's huge out here. The country is huge. It's like, it's so hard to represent your country at that like young of an age. I don't know how it works for— if you can even do that, if you can represent the US at like the age of like 15. But in England, that was, you know, you can— you go through the school system and there's a bunch of races, and if you qualify, they pick like top 8 basically, and they go and compete against like Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. Um, which is kind of— I guess that's how you guys do like state competitions, right? And then you do like regionals, and then there's Foot Locker and everything, right?

Yeah.

Um, but for us, it was like wearing the England vest, and it was just such a— something to work towards that felt like, uh, yeah, achievable, I guess.

Right on. Thanks for the question, Wayne. Bill, you want to go? No, he's not done.

As I told you earlier, I did a huge Wikipedia dive on you.

Appreciate the background check.

I discovered that your first run in Flagstaff was at Buffalo Park. Yeah, mine was also. Yeah, so we have something in common, except I did not want to die after the first lap because I was relegated to a very slow speed.

Yeah, which I wish I'd been relegated to. Yeah.

Can we talk about UNM a little bit?

Yeah, yeah.

You were part of 2 national championships, and I'm intrigued by the difference in culture of being part of a national championship cross-country team at the college level.

Yeah.

Where I've heard, I've read you talking about your housemates and the relationships that you had.

Yeah.

And it sounds like a real family. Yeah. And what you have at HOKA, uh, at NAZ Elite Yeah. Similarities, differences, expectations?

Yeah, I think really it goes back to what, you know, my Worcester Athletic Club days, just having that sense of community and everyone working towards like a common goal. I think at UNM, you know, every year it was like people would leave, which was always like really sad. And, you know, the seniors would always leave. And I feel like when I came in, I made a lot of friends who were like juniors or seniors. And so it was really sad for me when they all left, and I felt like it was like I had to make a new batch of friends. But there were some constants that were through, and I felt like we all had a really great dynamic. And I think, you know, sometimes in college it can be hard. I think the dynamic, especially between girls, it can get competitive and bitchy, especially at that age. And I feel like we were really fortunate. I think part of it was that because so many of us were international, we all kind of like lent on each other for different things. And I think that it took away that, like, competitive element, I guess. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all competing against each other, but we are competing as a team in cross-country. And I think then that competitive element is taken away entirely in track because everyone's focusing on different events. And, um, also at UNM as well, I'm really, really fortunate that Jo had some of the— sometimes, like, the freshman guys would help out the senior women, and it wasn't we didn't have to do everything together, and that's something I enjoyed at Worcester Athletic Club too. I had guys that I trained with, and that was something that I think I would— because I am a competitive person, it's something that I really appreciate. And then at NAZ now, you know, we have Ben Bruce who paces us, and, um, we're all also working for different events, you know. Like, I— today I was like running with all the track girls, and, um, you know, they're training for cross-country and the 5K in the, you know, in the summer. And I feel like I'm training for a marathon, it just couldn't be further, you know, more different, but we're all like supportive of each other and training with each other and I think the dynamic— I've been really fortunate throughout my whole running career to never really come into an instance where it's ever been like— I've heard stories of other college teams and stuff having these like disasters really, but I've been really fortunate to have never been on one of these teams and just always had a good dynamic with the, yeah, with the rest of the girls, so.

Right on. Thanks, Bill. Not your last opportunity, Lauren and Chris. Pass for now. Lauren.

So I loved hearing about like your falling in love with running story when you were younger. How has your relationship with running changed now that you're a pro? Yeah. If at all. I think there's definitely more expectation and pressure from my side of things really. As it is, you know, like it's, I have a sponsorship and like I'm not naive to the fact that, you know, you have to run certain times and there are expectations that come with that. And I think, you know, that's just like, that's how business kind of goes, and I appreciate that and I respect it. Um, so I think like there is that added element of like pressure, um, that I have. And I also think as well, you know, when you're younger and like you don't know splits, like I, I never ran— like when I was at Worcester Athletic Club, I had no idea what, like, what I was running, what pace I was running. I just go for these runs and you just blast it, you know, or you'd run a 600-meter and I'd have no idea like what pace I ran. I just thought, oh yeah, I worked hard, like that was a great session. And I think, you know, now we've all got GPS watches and we're all like running to splits and we're comparing to, oh, what did I run last time and everything. And it's all a bit more like pace and time and mileage like, um, heavy, I think. And that's a big difference to the UK. I feel like everything's done, at least when, when I was there, probably has changed now, but it was all done on like minutes. So you'd go for like an hour run, whereas now I've definitely got caught up in like the mileage mindset of like I have to hit a certain amount of mileage a week. So those are kind of the drawbacks, I guess, of like compared to my first love of like running. But I think now, you know, if you told me when I was like 15, oh, like you're— that's going to be your career, I would have just been like, I would have never believed you. My sister reminds me of this all the time. I'm like, this is my literal dream, like growing up. So on that end, I feel so fortunate and happy that I'm just living out my dream. And I think as well, being able to, I traveled to Japan earlier in the year to race. That's just a huge thing for me and that's just amazing that I'm able to do that really with running. Obviously when I was 13 or whatever, I'd never have been able to do that. Traveling to Ireland was a big deal for me. So yeah, just being able to come to America and all the things, all the opportunities, And I know it sounds so cheesy to say, but like all the friendships that running has given me, like I would say pretty much all of my good friends have come from running in some shape or form. So yeah, I like, I'm very grateful to running for that as well.

Right on. Thanks, Lauren. Yeah. So in your, in answering that question, you know, you mentioned that this was a dream from a relatively young age. Uh, what was plan B?

Gosh, I think I was a bit, you know, put all my eggs in one basket, if I'm honest. Um, I think plan B— oh, it's tough because I think really I'll probably— plan B even like now, you know, is like I'm not naive to the fact that there is life after running. I think business is what it's going to be for me. Um, I was fortunate, like I managed to get an MBA at UNM, and I feel like that's quite a flexible one where you can kind of go in many different ways. Um, obviously I've got my coaching as well, which I really enjoy doing, and I find that really fulfilling. Um, and in a weird way, like, inspiring, genuinely. Like, I mean, to be honest, I see Chris do like back-to-back marathons all the time and just manage to spring back for them. Um, yeah, it's been— I think it's been really cool for me to coach other people and see what they're capable of and different mindsets that people have too. That's been great for me. So whether I like pursue coaching more or whether I— I mean, I think that's kind of business as well. Um, and like really focus on the coaching business. I— that might be an option for me. So that's probably Plan B. I think when I was younger, hockey was probably like my Plan B. I was always going to be sports, um, or something competitive. And I feel like business probably lends itself to that as well.

Yeah, right on. Um, so for each of these, uh, you saw it in the promotion I put out for, for your appearance here, I always give it a theme, you know, and it's just, I gotta come up with something. And so the one I picked for you was the pursuit of the perfect race. But I mean, it wasn't completely arbitrary.

Yeah, yeah, no, very spot on. I'm still in that search.

Okay, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, just like, 'cause I know you a little bit and, you know, as an interviewer, I like to ask questions that I genuinely want to hear you answer.

Yeah.

Um, and so just kind of leading into that theme, what, uh, can you identify the, you know, the greatest race you've had, the most satisfying race you've had up to this point?

Yeah, gosh, I think it's probably a toss-up between Houston Marathon and then, um, probably the first year I got like second at NCAAs. I feel like that was cross-country, uh, no, in track, actually in the 10K.

Okay.

I think winning as the team as well that year that we did that was amazing. But I think if I'm being like probably selfish about it, I think getting second in the NCAA 10K was really like just such a satisfying moment for me. Um, and then I think, um, I'm sorry, I think I just messed up my microphone. Um, yeah, I think Houston Marathon was just— there was a huge relief factor with that. And then It was also just like, it did come down to a sprint finish, um, and I was very fortunate to, to have like won the sprint finish. Um, so I was like really, yeah, just pumped with that one. I feel like when, you know, in like a rally in tennis when you get like 20 points deep and then you're— you finally like win the rally, it feels so much more satisfying than just winning a random like one shot. Um, that's kind of how like Houston Marathon felt for me.

So right on.

Yeah.

And you know what, you know, what was it? I mean, you said a little bit about that sprint finish, but well, maybe the 10K. Obviously there's the outcome, there's the result. Like you performed very well, you know, second place in a championship race in the United States of America where you've said it's very deep, big deal. But it's also like it's the execution, right? It's like, you know, the training that led up to it. It's like what you did to achieve that result. Can you talk a little bit about, like, you know, how you define a great race in those terms?

Is this— sorry, is this for NCAA 10K or Houston? Which one were we talking about?

Oh, sorry. Uh, yeah, the latter. I'm so— the former, 10,000 meters.

10,000 meters. Um, I think in the NCAA you have so many times to see where you're at. You know, you've got conference, you have regionals, you have all of the, like, pre-meets. We do the Stanford meets and stuff. And so It wasn't a total surprise to me that, like, the NCAA, how it finished, but I think the year before I'd got 8th, and I was, I just snuck into that All-American spot. And so in the 10K to, like, get 2nd was a shock, but also not, like, I was definitely expecting, like, well, I was hoping to be in that top 8. I would have been very disappointed if I hadn't been that year. And to be so close to 1st is always, like, You know, it's always that saying, like, always the bridesmaid, never the bride, kind of. Like, it just felt like that was a little frustrating. But in terms of, like, the build-up and how I kind of got there, I think in college we used to do a lot— well, I used to do a lot of the same sessions, um, and I think that was great for me to see my progression and build confidence from that. Every, every time I did those sessions, you know, every Friday we used to do, like, a 6 to 8 mile tempo, and then every Tuesday was, like, a track session. Normally, I mean, I feel like I got a little obsessive towards the end. I was like, Joe, we need to keep doing the same session. And because I was like, I know it works. And we'd always do like 400-mile, 400 times 4, um, which Jack was telling me that apparently it's called the New Mexico Special now. So it's got a name. Um, but yeah, I used to do that one. And, you know, I, I used to— that one, I put a lot of weight into like where it was at, you know. Um, so I feel like that was really my progression to getting to that point.

Yep.

Hope I answered your question there. I feel like I went off on a tangent.

No, that was all relevant.

Yeah.

Yeah. So then, you know, casting your mind ahead, like one thing that, like, I mean, pretty much every athlete, every runner, you know, if you ask them, like, do you believe that your best performance is still in front of you? Like, almost everyone says yes. I mean, you know, there are folks who, like, have been running for decades and they've aged beyond that possibility.

Yeah.

And then they, you know, they have different sorts of goals or whatever. Um, but I imagine like you, you want to believe that your, your greatest race is still in front of you.

I'd like to hope so. I think especially with like how technology's advanced as well, like the shoe technology. Um, we've got like super shoes now, and I think, you know, objectively, like I, I will run faster than what I did in college just because of that. And I think as well, um, I was going to say something else but I can't remember. But yeah, the shoe technology. Um, oh, and also, yeah, I know what I was going to say is I feel like like in college there were so many things that— I'm quite a stubborn person and I refuse to do any type of strength in college because I felt like every time I did strength I got injured. And that's really been rewired in my brain that actually strength prevents injuries, right? That's probably why I got injured. Yeah. Um, so I think now that I've added strength work into my training, um, you know, I like— hopefully that's really going to help me. Like, I've actually been injury-free now for about 18 months, um, which is huge. Like, I've never had that in my whole running career, like, actually ever. And I know that sounds, you know, most people are like, haven't been injured for like 5 years or whatever, but for me, like, I'm just being— I always, I like, yeah, tell people I'm very injury-prone, I'm very injury-prone. That's been like my identity as a runner. Um, but now not having to worry so much about injuries and actually be able to build some consistency is like huge for me, like absolutely huge. So very grateful for, yeah, like John and Danny who have really helped me get to that point as well as NAZ and the support with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just, I mean, I can relate. I was an injury-prone runner and, you know, I started running when I was 11 and yeah, super shoes were a factor. But like, you know, I PR'd in the 10K at 49. Yeah, I ran my first 10K when I was 12.

Yeah.

And part of it was like I figured out how to stay healthy.

Yeah, and then that's the hardest part.

Yeah, yeah, but then like an incredible magic can happen. Yeah, you know, if you like— if 18 months injury-free is a long time, yeah, uh, it's almost like aging in reverse when you can stay healthy, and then sky's the limit.

Yeah, well, I hope so. I just, uh, I'm really, really like excited that I've managed to stay in— I feel like I need to touch wood.

I almost did that.

Yeah, um, I don't get too arrogant about my injury-freeness now, but, um, yeah, I definitely feel like that's huge. And, you know, I owe it to myself to, like, make sure I really see that through, you know, like, really make sure that I get the best out of myself, like, competing and everything with that, and using my consistency as a strength now, because it's something that I've always had in the back of my mind, like I just, every day I'd wake up with an anxiety of like, when's like, what's going to hurt today? Like, am I going to get a stress fracture or something? And not having to worry about that so much anymore is just like, oh yeah, the stress is gone.

Yep, yep. Um, so if you could, uh, so there's, you know, sort of the expectation. I mean, I mean, that's, it's very hard work to be a professional runner, so like, you know, you have to have that belief, um, that, you know, that it's going to all come together somewhere, somehow, in a way that exceeds, you know, surpasses anything you've done before.

Yeah.

If you could choose where, when, and how it all comes together for like that, you know, that like— because ultimately every runner, you know, when they look back on the totality of their career, they can, they can look at like, you know, this was my greatest moment.

Yeah.

If you could choose what would you do?

Oh, I mean, early next year would be great ahead of the Olympics and then gain selection for that. That would be amazing. Um, yeah, that would be really like to the gods if that could happen. Be very grateful. Um, but yeah, it would be ideal. I think the marathon, you know, it's such a different event to like cross-country and 10K, and I think in college you're, you know, you're racing so often that, as I was saying, you're able to like check yourself all the time, like, where am I at, where am I at? And I think And you also, you're racing on a track, or cross-country is very different because it's like, you know, you might do the same courses over and over again, but no one ever really— it's more about how you're racing. But I think in the marathon, it's, it is quite time-focused, the marathon. Um, and I think it's just, there's so many variables when it goes to marathon. The course you're running on, the weather, like the competition. Do you have people to run with? Like, have you got pacers? Like you know, how's your stomach feeling? Like, how's the fueling? You're gonna miss a bottle. There's so many variables that it's actually very hard to nail a marathon. And I feel like I'm— Houston was like kind of a glimmer to being able to do that, or like the light at the end of the tunnel, I would always say. But I feel like I've yet to kind of really, I think, reach my potential in the marathon. And that's kind of something I'm on a quest for now. I always said I'd be ready to move to the marathon when I broke 32 in the 10K, and I did that by the skin of my teeth, but I did it. So I moved to the marathon, and I feel like now I've just got some unfinished business in the marathon that I'm, uh, yeah, desperate to achieve.

Right on. Uh, Wade, you got another question for us?

So if I were to look back on the last 2 weeks here, one of the themes that we keep coming back to in coaches hours with Matt is idea of suffering.

Yeah.

And, um, it's been something that I'm really trying to explore more and more.

Yeah.

There's this weird aspect where I'm already kind of bought into it because of self-selecting into this sport, but it's also something I'm afraid of and I'm working through.

Yeah.

And I would just love to hear a little bit more from you, someone who's gone through all of this and is now a pro.

Yeah.

How do you think about suffering? How How much does it factor into what you do? And yeah, any other thoughts related to that?

I think unfortunately I'm at the point now where I really fear like hard workouts and races because I know like how much suffer I'm about to go through. And it's something I've been like actually really working on to try and like change that in my brain because, you know, I, I think it's very normal to be nervous about racing, but sometimes I think like, why am I nervous? Like, what is it that I'm nervous about? And I'm like, it is actually the pain that I'm nervous about. It's like, you know, when you're about to have an injection and you can see them, or like, uh, take your blood or something, and you think, ah, you get nervous all of a sudden. It's kind of like that. Like, I'm like, I know it's gonna hurt, but I think what I've been doing recently is like, actually in the session or in the race, I think to myself, like, is it actually as bad as I was fearing it to be, the pain? And I think often it's the fear that's worse than the pain itself, and that's been really helpful for me to like overcome the idea of suffering. Because let's be honest, like, we don't— I know, like, running itself and, like, pushing yourself is something that we all, like, enjoy doing, which is a bit psychotic when you think about it. But I think no one, like, let's be honest, no one enjoys— no one thinks, oh yeah, I want to really suffer today. I know people say it and they say, like, embrace the suffer, but actually it's something that you're like, oh God, like, I didn't— you know, I don't really want to be in pain, to be honest. Like, who really— we always, like, it's a natural, like, human reaction to avoid pain. But I think trying to rewire it in your brain as to like, is it actually as bad as what I'm feeling it to be? And normally it's just a fear that's worse. So, um, that's probably my best advice when it comes to like dealing with that feeling or the fear of suffering compared to actually the feeling of it. Um, but when it comes to actually like the suffering itself and like pushing through that barrier, I think a lot of it for me comes from like my competitive nature. Um, that's not necessarily with my competitors but more with myself. I'm very hard on myself. I'm like definitely, you know, a perfectionist, obsessive, like as I feel like most athletes are. But I think I'm very just like hard on myself and constantly comparing myself to myself. And so I think that helps me push through that kind of barrier of suffering. Yeah.

Right on. Well done, Wade. Bill?

Sure.

Back to UNM.

Yeah, yeah, UNM, the good old days.

In a past life, I had the privilege of dealing with, uh, freshman athletes in the sport of softball, college softball.

Yeah.

And for 2 years, I was responsible for freshmen. And I'd say if we had an incoming class of 4 kids, I'd probably have at least 3, maybe 4, that would come in and want to, want to go home, want to quit.

Yeah.

I want to transfer.

Yeah.

You struggled your freshman year.

Mm-hmm.

You're far away.

Yeah.

You're, you're very close with your family. How'd you get through the year?

I think the first part of it, for me, was never admitting verbally or to myself that I was homesick. Like, that was never something I would even allow myself to think, like, oh, I'm like, I miss home. It was more the first— for me, the struggle aspect was more the frustration I wasn't performing. I was I knew that I wasn't like truly focused because I was so like, I guess, confused in this new place. And I was trying to figure out like, I didn't know what a Social Security number was. Why was everyone asking me for this? Anytime I tried to get something, you know, like figuring out phone, figuring out like I didn't have a car. Um, just so many things that are just so different in America. Like I did not know— I still to this day don't fully understand credits, like, what, well, that's all about, like, I don't know what that's about. I, I was used to, like, in England, you know, in your last, like, I would say 3 years, you really only specialize on about 4 subjects. So for me, having to do, like, English again and, like, you know, all these classes that I wasn't used to doing, um, was, like, just so overwhelming for me, very overwhelming. Um, so I think that's more where the struggle came from, but never once was I like, oh, I'm gonna move I'm gonna move back. It was more just like, I need to figure this out, like, I've got to get this sorted. Um, and so I think I just took that summer and I trained and I kind of got myself— like, I was more accustomed to, like, what I was coming back to, I guess. Um, I don't think even Joe— he was, like, shocked. He was like, wow, you've really kind of changed over the summer, haven't you? And I was like, yeah, I've, like, decided I've got my shit together now. And, like, you know, um, I feel like my focus was in the right place and I could finally focus on running rather than having to worry about, like, getting to class and like all of this, you know, other stuff. Yeah.

Silly question. What was your first meal when you went home?

I know someone— everyone was going to want me to say like fish and chips or something, but gosh, what was my first meal? I feel like my mum is a great home cook. Like, I'm very fortunate growing up. She always made extremely, like, fresh meals. So it's probably something she used to make, this like pasta dish with like breaded chicken and fresh tomato sauce. So that would probably be my first meal back when I went back. Yeah.

Yum.

Yeah.

Lauren, you got another one?

How often do you get to go back home? I try and go back about once a year. There is that side of me that's like, you know, my parents are nearly 70 now and I feel like I'm kind of missing, like, you know, missing them getting older, I guess. And like my sister, she's had 2 children since I've been away and she's expecting her third. And it is is, you know, I like, I want them to remember their auntie, like my niece and my nephew and stuff. So I do kind of have that like pull. And I think as long as I'm going back for like, I try and go back for at least a month, sometimes even 6 weeks, which I feel like is long enough. And my older sister always tells me, she's like, I actually don't see the rest of the family like as much as you do because I go back for such intense periods of time that it's like, I think when you're around your family, you sometimes may go for a weekend or two, but it's never like an intense 6 weeks. Um, so I try and view it like that, but it is in the back of my I'm like, I am. I do like miss my family for sure. Like, we're very close and like I grew up like they were my best friends just growing up, you know? So I miss my high school friends and everything too. So maybe one day I'll go back. But yeah, I'll probably be deported at some point. I'm sure visas are getting harder and harder to get now.

Whoa.

Yeah, we've got another hour so I can talk about that.

Uh, well, we'll have you back. We'll have you back to discuss that. But, uh, yeah, to round things out, um, so yeah, as a, as a, I guess, a coach myself now, um, I, you know, the way I view it is like there's, um, there's a formula for each, for each athlete.

Yeah.

Um, you know, somewhere out there is your ultimate potential, and, um, you know a lot of things in terms of like how you train and how you eat and, you know, how you get your mind dialed in are universal. Yeah, they work for everyone. But then at the level of details, yeah, it's a little bit different for each person. Like, and, you know, for me, I found it so stimulating as an athlete to try and like piece together the formula. Yeah. And like, and so for you, do you think, are there Is— are the things you're still figuring out? Are there, you know, things that are still coming into place that could, when they do, you know, precipitate that, that beautiful, perfect race that's still out there for you?

Yeah, I think in New Mexico I do feel like I had that really dialed in, um, and I think it's— I'm still actually trying to figure that out in Flagstaff. And I think I was naive coming from 5,000 feet to 7,000 feet, think— thinking I could live the same life and I could get away with doing 2 sessions a week in a long run. And I think here it's, it's hugely different. That 2,000 feet is just like— I just feel like it goes like that, basically. Um, and I can't do the same training sessions. And I think it's taken me years to actually come to terms with that. Like, paces have to be slower up here, recovery days have to be slower. Um, but I think the biggest thing for me, like, mentally, is, you know, I have to appreciate I grew up in a family and a school that wasn't running intensive. And I think Flagstaff is a very running-intensive place. Like, it's— there's a lot of runners here, which is great. You know, if you ever need to go for a run, there's always someone that you can, you know, you can round up a crew always to like go for a run. And there's endless trails, and it's amazing. It's never a pain to like try and find a running spot or people to run with. But I think I need to appreciate that I actually do need that separation from running. And I think, you know, I go to Phoenix quite frequently now, and I spend time down there, and I spend time with non-runners, and it's really refreshing for me to just take myself out of this like very running intensive environment. Um, and that's something that I've kind of figured this last year out, and like I feel like my training's really improved because of that, and my, my mental approach to training as well. Um, just because I have kind of realized I need like less running in my life to do well at running myself. Um, so that's one thing. And I think as well, just yeah, trying to figure out actually the formula for Flagstaff and like um, not, I think, forcing every session. And I was talking to Jack about this yesterday. It's like, it has to be effort-based. It can't— it just cannot be like, oh, I need to be running this split because I know that I've run this split before. It's like, I might have run that split before, but I might have also then, like, been exhausted for weeks afterwards and not raced to my potential. And so I think Jack and I will really work together well to, like, figure out that specific formula. Um, that works for me. So yeah, I'm really excited about like this next year coming up and really like getting that formula sorted.

Right on. Well, we are excited about the year coming up for you as well, Alice. You know, we're fans.

I appreciate that.

Yeah. And so thank you so much for giving us a brief chat.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, you bet. And we'll have you back when because I believe it as well. Like that, I mean, you've achieved a lot. I mean, let's not dismiss what you've achieved. Oh, thank you. But, uh, you know, your crowning achievement very likely is still in front of you. It'll be exciting to watch it happen.

I hope so. Thank you.

Right on. Uh, thank you for tuning in. This is it for episode whatever of Live from Dream Run Camp. We're gonna eat some quiche now. Uh, tune in next time with another special guest. Who knows who it might be?

Bye.