Live With: Grayson Murphy

Run Camp. As always, we're sponsored by 80/20 Endurance. We're coming at you from Dream Run Camp in Flagstaff, Arizona. We have a full house tonight, very exciting. Oh, we have some secret things going on that I'm not at liberty to divulge, but you will be aware of them in due time. My guest tonight is Saucony-sponsored world champion runner Grace Murphy. Welcome, Grace.

Thank you.

Right on.

Yeah, um, so, uh, the focus of this conversation will be about— I mean, there's a lot we could talk about, but we're going to focus on this really cool training log you've created.

Yep.

Before we get to that, I would like to reintroduce Abby Chan. Abby is a previous guest on Live from Dream On Camp. Since then, she has become the latest ambassador— I'm sorry, You're not an ambassador. Advisory board member for the Coaches of Color Initiative, uh, a, a, um, an organization that actually I started in 2021, and we are a proud partner of Coaches of Color Initiative. Um, it's basically an apprenticeship program, um, aimed at— well, I was supposed to have you do this, right? So, so thank you, Matt.

I will take it.

I'm just kidding.

Uh, Coaches of Color Initiative is a training program to get your running certification, um, and it was brought about in 2020 by you, as you mentioned, and it's basically to give those individuals who maybe have never been represented in the sport, who've also maybe never been represented by a coach of color or knew that that could ever be an option, and so it brings more diversity to the field of coaching overall and brings a lot more intersectionality. And I think that having a coach that sees you and hears you and maybe has some of your same lived experience is essential for athletes. And I'm lucky enough that I've had a lot of really amazing coaches in my life, and I think that it's a really amazing cause. And if you want to support it, you can go to 8020endurance.com if you want to apply for it. Uh, it's amazing because you get a full year of coaching, you get to hang out with Matt, you get to hang out with me, we get to talk about food stuff. Um, and there's a lot of individuals to, uh, get to really rally around you and support you so that you can be the best coach that you can.

Sweet. Thank you so much for that, Abby. So Abby is going to awkwardly depart in about 10 minutes. She is going to teach a yoga class. And so, yeah, uh, graciously took a little bit of time out of her afternoon for this. So now we pivot to you.

Great.

So I like to start with a real zinger gotcha question. Yeah, so tell me, Grayson, why is your training log better than my training log?

Okay, good question. Um, because mine is also a daily planner, so it's meant to be used in life and in training and be a holistic tool. It has mental health journal prompts, habit trackers. Um, but I actually have had yours before, so it was an inspiration.

Okay, cool. Yeah, so actually, yeah, before we dive into that, I'll tell you a little story, which is kind of cool. So this thing has been around, it's like one of the oldest ones, um, and so I'm old, um, and so I started running in like 1983, um, and when I was in high school, one of my Christmas presents for, I guess it was Christmas 1986, was the 1987 version of this log. So this was started by Jim Fixx, the guy who's widely credited with starting the running boom, and then he handed it on. Well, he died. Um, poor guy. Um, he died running. Running is good for you. Um, but he handed it on to another author and then another author. So it's just like— and then a couple years ago The publisher reached out to me and said, hey, would you consider taking over authorship of this thing? And it was just like one of these mind-blowing, like, full-circle moments because I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's the log. And we'll get into this, like, written training logs are special. You know, like, when— so we moved here from California in December of 2022, and I was going through, like, I'm like, what do I throw out? What do I keep? I was going through boxes of like all my old running stuff and I came, I found that journal and I just like, I was busy, I had lots of boxes to get through, but I lingered over that, you know, it's like, because I was what, 15 years old, and it's just like, it's the story of a boy falling in love with running, you know, it was amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, I think, what you get, right? You understand this, um, So I guess we'll reverse back into your story, but say a little bit about that, like your inspiration for creating your own journal, why you think this— I mean, with, you know, technology taking over and everything's done online now with devices, um, this is very, you know, low-tech, old school, you know. Why is this better?

I think—

well, and enough of this, I'm just gonna— it's all about this from now on.

I've had a bunch of journals that I loved like yours, um, and I still have a box of them too. And I also always had a daily planner, and then I just found myself like carrying around two books all the time, and it was clumsy and not very efficient. Um, and then also I think training doesn't happen in a vacuum, so it's nice to be able to see like your life stresses too and how that plays into your training. Um, because if you're stressed at work or and you had a shitty workout, like, there might be a reason for that. But if you're just seeing training like this, maybe you're not seeing the whole picture. And then I— yeah, I'm on my phone too much as it is, so I don't need another app or reason to be on my phone. I still have Strava, but I think this is different. This is like a personal introspective way to track your training, where Strava is very public and exposing, um, and judgmental sometimes. So I like having— yeah, this, or it's like no one's judging how many miles I ran today or how fast or where, um, and it's just all about like me and myself, which I think we all need more.

Yeah. Do you ever do that thing where you like, you go back and dig out like your very first log and Yeah, what's that like?

So fun to see, like you said, a girl falling in love with running, and it's cool to see how far I've come. And what I thought was so hard then is like easy. I can just do it like in my sleep now, and that's like cool to see progression. Um, and then cool to see things that haven't changed either. Like sometimes I feel the same way about runs, about an 8-mile easy day, like still could be great or still could be not good. Um, so that's pretty cool.

Yeah, yeah, that's part of the experience I had too, because like, again, I was, you know, I was like, I don't know, 50, 51 when I looked at the log I kept when I was 15. And yeah, I was like, there were differences, but I'm like, I'm the same guy, you know. It was kind of cool, just like, wow. I was like, yeah, um, yeah, some of like the snarky little asides. Um, yeah, so Yeah, still me.

Still hate the wind.

I would even say too, if there's something very different and kinesthetic about writing something versus, oh, I logged or it was just tracked. So it's like having that as also a place to put emotion or put things, I think is really— I like that you actually combined those things.

That's really cool.

Thanks. Yeah, I always felt like, how did I feel today on the run? Was it windy? Did I— didn't like, um like what was the weather like, things that like you don't put in Strava generally. But I think those are important things in training and they get missed a lot if you're just looking at data, which tells a good picture but not the whole picture.

Yeah, I try to do that, you know, because, you know, everyone I coach except for Betsy— shout out— is, uh, remote, like I don't see them. And so it is mediated through the online and I really encourage the athletes I coach to like use that common space. And sometimes they'll put in just like completely random stuff, like, you know, how many bunnies I counted on my run today. But I absolutely love it. I'm like, that is not irrelevant. I'm not sure how it's relevant, but, but it's cool. And so like you can narrativize a little bit more when you use one of these journals.

Yeah, and I think having your mental health, you can see like 'How's my mental health doing?' too, by the comments you're leaving for yourself, or just straight up like put how you felt mentally that day, because that's also something that usually doesn't get put online, but I think it's like extra important too.

Yeah, yeah, let's go a little bit further in that direction. I know, uh, you've, you've had— you've dealt with, um, anxiety, that's right. Um, and so, I mean, we all are impacted in one way or another, like we all have we all have mental health, right? And it's like, you know, talk about relevant— it is relevant to your athletic journey, um, because, you know, you're not an exercise machine, you're a person who exercises. Um, so yeah, just say a little bit more about, um, your relationship with mental health and how it fed into the approach you took with this vlog.

Yeah, I think I learned pretty on in college that that was an important piece of me racing well, and if I wasn't doing well mentally, probably wasn't going to have a good race. Um, and I'm more prone to brain sprains, I like to call them, compared to physical injuries. But it took a while for me to realize that that was just as valuable or respectable of an injury as a physical one and should be treated as such. So when I was making this, the first one which I have here to show you, um, didn't have mental health prompts. But the further along I got in my career, I just was like, this is so important and I need to share this with people. And even if you don't write in it, because to be honest, I don't always fill them out, but I just look at them and think about it too. It's just like a good check-in and how am I doing, um, because it's like important in life. But also if you're trying to reach your potential in something. I think that's important too.

Yeah, yeah. A few years back, um, I, um, I was working on writing something and I reached out to Bill Rogers, who's, you know, his training journals from back like 1975 and like the lead-up to winning the Boston Marathon in 1975, like those journals you can actually access online and they're, they're a treasure trove. And I, I asked him, you know, just about like what they did for him And he said, you know, like, when you, when you put it down on paper and then come back to it, it's almost like you're a different person, or you can be a coach to yourself. It's like you have a— you are the same person who wrote it down, but there's a slight perspective shift where you can actually, like, call BS on yourself. It's like, oh wait, wait, there's a pattern here that I would have gone unnoticed if I hadn't, you know, had the, the practice, practice.

Yeah, yeah, I think it's super helpful.

Yeah, is there like a specific example where like you have like your journal? All right, off she goes. Happy cheating, everyone! Thanks, Happy.

Thanks.

Um, yeah, slide on in. Come on, come on. Uh, yeah, so can you think of like a specific case where, um, you know, there was something that you weren't seeing that your, you know, your logging, your journaling allowed you to see?

I think seeing like overall stress and how that can pile up and really duplicate itself quickly was something I needed to see, especially looking at like I track my mileage usually and then I'll track like cross-training hours too too, because I do a lot of cross-training, and seeing like, oh, my miles were low, but actually the volume was quite high looking.

Yeah, yeah.

And then similarly with trail running, more in the summer, not right now, but, uh, 8 miles on the trail is not 8 miles on the road. Time on feet is a lot different. That could be like double the time. And I realized like, oh, maybe I'm underfueling because I'm actually out here like twice as long by hours as I was running these miles on the road, so keeping that in check too was like pretty eye-opening actually when I first started trail running.

Yeah, um, we always invite questions from the crowd. I'm scanning, I'm scanning. If you don't have one yet, I've teed you up, so if you got one bubbling beneath the surface, um, when I Well, you can just raise a hand or just blurt, but I'll move on. I'll blurt. Yeah, blurt. How often do you use like a digital activity tracker for some of the more like subjective decision-making processes you go through in training versus something like a journal?

That's a good question. I don't know if I ever use like anything digital to go into any decision-making process. No, I don't think— like, like, I can see Strava has like miles and stuff, so like that's easy, but me and my coach don't look at my Strava and then say like, yeah, you're gonna win Worlds or not. Um, maybe on a segment or something, but yeah, I don't think really it's like all written. And then what I put in my training log between me and my coach, which Honestly, it's almost verbatim of what I usually write in that. So cool. Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, well done. Um, what else is unique about your log? It has a number of unique elements.

It does. Here, maybe I'll open one.

Yeah.

Um, I personally really like the habit tracker. Which are monthly. I should have brought a complete one for you, but they look like this. So usually I track miles here, so it turns into a graph that you end up doing. Oh, and then like cross-training would be up here, so you can see like day by day, up and down, kind of your training. And then these are habit trackers in a sense, like sometimes I put core or steeple drills, um, things like that. How much water did I drink? And you can check the boxes off, so it's a way to kind of like hold yourself accountable and be able to build habits personally. Like sometimes there are personal habits too I don't think people want to track online, which is nice to have the paper option.

Yeah, so Ruby Wiles, who does social media for Dream Run Camp and is is somewhere close by, um, and she is a user of this log, um, and she was showing it to me last night or the night before, I think it's two nights ago, and it's kind of beautiful, like, you know, because like it's, it's like not just used but loved, and like she's got like different colors for the different— yeah, yeah, and so it's almost like a, like a work of art, um, yeah, very well thought out. So this is a This is your 6th edition?

This is the 6th edition, yeah. It's been a while. This was the first one, so it's come a long way. And this was actually printed in Flagstaff at a local printer here, so this one has special Flagstaff roots. But the inside looks quite different from what it looks like now. And yeah, I hand drew all of these like little pictures and things and then had them digitized by an artist. Um, so yeah, it's come a long way, gone through many iterations. Every year I try and reach out to everyone that uses them to get feedback and improve and add like what do they want to see in the log. Um, the binding is different because this doesn't really lay flat and people didn't like that, so then we moved to the wire-o. Um, so it's been a fun way to like connect with the running community outside of racing.

Yeah, yeah. One thing I promise not to mention my own log again, but, uh, here I go. Um, but one thing I found, like, just like because it is venerable, you know, it's been around since the 1970s, and so you— there are people who've used it, you know, kind of like generationally.

Yeah.

Um, and since I took over, I've heard from some of those people, and there's, um You know, it's like it's part of their journey, you know, just like they're very loyal to, to this thing. I'm sure that you're kind of building that as well. So, you know, what has the reception been like? What has the feedback been like?

It's been really cool. Like, I didn't— I started it because I made my own and people kept asking me, where did you buy that? And I was like, I drew this, so let me make one for And then the first year I barely broke even. My grandma gave me like startup money and I was able to pay her back. And then that was kind of it. So that, yeah, as a struggling first-year professional runner, it wasn't very lucrative, but it has grown since then and now has become like definitely a business and passion project, which is nice. And Yeah, I've had people who've bought like all 6 editions, and it's insane to hear that, that someone likes it that much that they're like doing that. Um, and hopefully not just because they're supporting me. My goal is that they like the product and it's not just like a charity case situation.

Yeah, no, I mean, I can assure you it's not, it's not that. I mean, well, I mean, I mean, there may be some fandom involved, but like there's, it's It's a— you build a relationship with these things. Yeah, yeah. Like, it would be, you know, don't stop doing it at this point. It would be heartbreaking for, you know, the, the streakers who've, uh, you know, 6 years and counting.

They're the reason I thought about stopping many times, because as I'm sure you know, um, running your own business is so hard, and that wasn't really what I set out to do with these, even though that's what it's turned into. And some days I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so done, that's it, this is the last year. And then someone comments like, 5 stars, best thing ever, I have 3 of these, and I'm like, oh, I can't stop.

Okay, that's tough.

Yeah, you mentioned that the first journal, this one here, was printed in Flagstaff. What's your, what's your relationship with Flagstaff?

Yeah, we've had a tumultuous relationship, I would say. Um, the town itself is fantastic and the community is fantastic. Um, I've had my only injuries have been here and then I was sick here, so that doesn't help. But I think it's cool to have a place like this. I've never been to a place with so many runners, both pro and amateur, both like striving to be their best and just like searching for the best version of themselves. Um, it's cool to have like that culture here of running.

Yep.

Yeah.

Um, so you are not from Flagstaff, um, you're from Utah. Oh yeah, right on. Okay, here we go. Um, so yeah, tell us a little bit about like your deep background, like, you know, family, where you're from, how you Grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Um, did not grow up running. I didn't start running until I was 19. I was a sophomore in college. I played soccer growing up, and I have a twin sister, so we played all the sports, and we were biking and being rambunctious all the time. Um, but I quit soccer my sophomore year of college and switched to the track team. Mostly as a way because I didn't want to join a sorority, um, and I didn't really know how to make friends other than being on a sports team. But I was like, what sport can I be on with no experience? And then just kind of took off. Um, yeah, really enjoyed it. It was a social thing that turned into like a lifelong thing. I got really lucky in that regard and then have been running for 8 years. No, 9, 8 or 9.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it turned out you were really good at running. Yeah.

Lucky. Happy accident.

Yeah. So did you— I mean, because like there's a lot of running in soccer.

Yeah.

So, you know, I played soccer growing up and the only part I was good at was the running part. As soon as I had the ball, problems. Um, was that you, or did— I mean, did you recognize that like you were good at the running part of soccer at least?

Um, yeah, I definitely knew. Like, if we did the beep test or running or conditioning in the summer, I was always like the best runner on the team, but just kind of was like, oh, I pity the cross-country kids that—

no ball.

Yeah, they don't have anything to chase. Um, so I kind of knew, but not to the extent. And then when I first started track, the coaches are like, you'll be an 800, 400 runner because soccer. And then that's not what happened. Um, I'm definitely more distance inclined, so that was kind of interesting to find out too.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, I guess, um, so you had this perspective like running is the part of soccer that sucks I pity the cross-country team, and then here you are. But I think I know this about you already, that you fell in love with running. I did. No need for a ball. How did that happen?

Yeah, it was really cool to just have like a new sport to try and be totally out of my element. And I went from zero running experience to I'm on a Division I track and cross-country country team with zero experience. So I just got thrown in the deep end and then had to learn. But it was a cool learning experience and mindset to have to have that I've tried to keep with me today, um, of just like, be out of your comfort zone and try new things and have humility. And it's okay to mess up and not know what the heck you're doing, and you'll figure it out. And I'm lucky I had coaches and teammates too that helped me figure it out and taught me what running shoes were and GPS watches.

And you didn't know what running—

all the good things. I knew there were running shoes, but I didn't know so much went into it.

Yeah, there's a lot.

Yeah, yeah. And that it wasn't just Nike Frees.

Yep.

I have a question.

Yeah.

How did you figure out you were good at trail running? Um, I did a trail race, honestly. Yeah. I just— when— so back to my Flagstaff story, I was on a team here for a year. It just wasn't a good fit for me. Um, it's a great team, but I just didn't really fit into the program very well. So I went home to Utah, and on my birthday there was a trail race in Salt Lake. So I was like, what the heck, I'm not sponsored right now, I'll just do this, because that was something I wasn't allowed to do while I was on the team. And it was so much fun, and I got second in the pro field, and I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't know racing could be this fun. I thought racing was kind of not a very fun experience, um, because I'd only had track really to compare to. So then I was like, wow, I think I can be good at this, and it brings me so much joy, and that is like the coolest thing.

Yeah, so can you tease those two things apart, like being good at it, um, and finding joy in it? Because I mean, you could think of them as separate, but they could overlap, you know, like it's joyful to be good at something. I mean, yeah, I actually have a good example for this.

Um, I would say that I'm pretty good at track, but track does not bring me joy in the slightest. And I realized like just because you're good at something doesn't mean you have to do it, and you should feel joy in the things you're doing. So I think that was like a good thing for me to see. And then looking at trail, it's like, oh, I'm good at this and it brings me joy, so why wouldn't I do that instead?

Yeah, which brings us to airplane wings— airplane arms, sorry.

Cut!

Which brings us to airplane arms.

Airplane arms, yeah, that's become my motto.

Yeah, what's that all about?

Um, we know when you're a kid, you're running around on the field at recess and you have your arms out, like, it's so much fun. And I used to do it with a coat on because it feels like it lifts you up a little, you have wings on. And I did it, um, I realized I was kind of subconsciously doing it on trails, and then one day I was like, oh my gosh, this is so fun.

Ruby, you wanna pop a spot?

Welcome. Um, like, this is so fun. If I'm not doing this on runs and I'm not doing the run right, because running should be fun, I should be doing airplane arms. Like, it should be bringing me that much joy that I'm like a little kid at recess. So I kind of get back to that. It's like when people say if you smile when you're in pain or having a tough time, it automatically makes you feel a little bit better. Same idea, thought process with airplane arms.

So do you think Eliud Kipchoge could break 2 hours if he tried the airplane arms?

Probably, yeah. After all the timeless mileage? He has a lot of joy, so I don't know if he can extract more out of himself than he already does.

Yes, but, uh, are you familiar with the Ryan Hall airplane arms at the Boston Marathon?

No. Oh my God, is that what you put the shoe before?

Yeah, yeah, when he, when he ran 2:04:58 in Boston, I was there. Um, he, he rounds the final turn, you know, he'd been pushing the pace early on, and, you know, it just wasn't an historic day. What's his face, long gone— well, he's still alive. But the guy who won, he just, you know, he ran 2:03:02, which was the fastest marathon ever run at the time, but it doesn't count because it's Boston. But it was a crazy race. And so I think Ryan got maybe 4th, um, but runs 2:04, and he rounds the final turn and he starts doing airplane arms. And I had this like argument with— I was there, um, like as a journalist, and one of my fellow writers, he's like, He's disrespecting the sport. That's so unprofessional. I'm like, that is awesome.

He's trying to get the most of this wind still.

But like, you know, because he said afterwards, uh, maybe even the press conference before, like, like, you know, he would choose like a power word for, for each race. And like, for, for that one, it was joy. Like, he wanted to race with joy. And like, yeah, and he would just like— I'm sure he didn't plan— he didn't know the race was going to unfold that way, but like, he just starts doing Airplane arm.

Just brings you joy.

So yeah, so you approve?

Yeah, very much.

Yeah.

And if you can run 2:04, yeah, I approve of that.

Right, you can do whatever you want. Cartwheels, you know.

I don't care what you do.

Yes. Yeah, so Ruby Wiles, everyone. Aforementioned, your name has come up.

Appreciate it.

And so yeah.

I'll have to rewatch to see if I remember if it's good or not.

Yeah, well, we did lead with, you know, some questions about the log because you are, um, a, a, uh, loving user of this product.

Um, yeah, I've got my log from 2023. Okay, I have been using for over a year now.

Yeah, and he was our ambassador last year too.

Yeah, and I, me and Matt, I was introducing Matt to my log the other day and just kind of showing a little bit about what I love.

And I showed to the camera, it's so— no, like, see too much.

Oh, okay.

I was talking about how it's like all color-coded.

Yeah, beautiful. I kind of color code, but I just like write my training in like colors each week, I guess, across the year.

It's art.

And I guess something I love— I don't know how much you've got into the log. Have you got into the log much? Was kind of how each month, um, you start with like a blank calendar. Maybe the 2024 one's different, but okay. And then there's like a gratitude prompt or like a, a space for reflection or like journaling, which I really like because I struggle to journal. And I like— I find having one thing a month, like one page a month, manageable rather than like an everyday kind of I will journal, um, and then some notes. And then you have like some habit trackers.

Oh, that's a better example, a filled out habit tracker.

And then you can add like your weekly and monthly mileages and your totals. And then something monthly habits, which is kind of good to like go into the month. Like sometimes like you have like key things you need to do in like a month that you don't need to do every week, so that's good. Then like something for a month might be like, by the end of this month I need to order a new pair of shoes, and it's not particularly like— doesn't matter which week you do it. So you go there. Then you have the weekly one, which is like you start out with some intentions, things to accomplish, and then I'm sure you've probably gone into this asking Grayson about like why she structured her log this way is like you have like the life section and the training section. Like, this is probably not for me to say, it's probably for Grayson to say, but it's kind of like the integration is like training is part of your life. Like having it by— I think something both me and Grayson both found was like, I was in college when this log came out and you were just out of college. It's like I found myself carrying two logs around, like my training journal and my daily planner. And like, so I love like having both things together. And also like, it's quite often I have a— like, I have been like training like for triathlon this last year, so I've had a lot of training. So sometimes it spills over into the life thing, so there's more room, whereas sometimes I find myself like cramming my training in tiny little journals. Um, and then at the end, I quite like how Grayson's chosen— quite cleverly chosen quotes to put at the bottom because sometimes they're athlete quotes, like there's one from Sarah Hall, but then sometimes they're like life ones. Like there was— oh, there's one from Molly Seidel, which is on her birthday week too.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh my gosh. And then there was like a Muhammad Ali one and some more philosophical ones. So like it's a really good variety, I guess, of like, yeah, life and training is racing kind of, I guess, made out to be. And then the 2024 one, I'm excited because there's stickers.

Here we go.

Oh, and yeah, I also love how like Grayson— I was an ambassador last year. I'm like, I don't know if this is just for ambassadors or anyone on your email list, but like you asked for like kind of feedback going into this year. And like I really have like love how you like integrated the community. So like I, one of my feedback was like we need a bookmark or something in there. And then my other feedback, which I don't think has come yet but I'm not giving up, is we need a shoe tracker to track your miles because I made my own.

But yeah, we did do bookmarks this year. I know, it's so exciting.

So I guess one of my questions to you is like, um, how— yeah. When you— when it goes about for designing the 2024 log, how, how is this 2024 different to past years?

Um, so we changed— well, we added a bookmark which clips in the other one and sticks up a little bit. Um, I added more journaling space because that was a feedback we got too, was to make the prompts smaller. So on those, the pages were more colored like that. And then now it just is more dots because some people didn't want to fill this out or didn't want to write on the other space. So now it's just more open space, um, more back pages of journaling too, which people ask for. People love journaling spaces, I guess. And then we made the bottom quotes a little more open too, so there's more dots in case you want to write down there. Um, we recently got a 1-star review because someone didn't like the motivational quotes in the planner, so that was fun.

Like any of them?

No, they said, um, they don't need all that extra stuff in there. 1 star.

Oh, like all this extra stuff that's cloud on the bottom?

Super fun. Uh, made the totals bigger too, just more trying to give like maximize the space for more room for people. And then pretty much everything else stayed the same.

Oh, one thing that we haven't mentioned which I loved, it's something that Grace has put in the back, which is race day planning. And like, instead of just having this, Grace has gone to the trouble of explaining the importance of different goals. And I'm sure you can talk about this more, like, do you want to talk about why it's important to have like different kinds of goals?

Goals? Yeah, um, yeah, I started that in college, so I called them my ABC goals. And I realized it's good to have goals but also to be flexible with your goals because a lot of things are out of your control, especially on race day. So having like your A goal is if the weather's perfect, you're feeling fantastic, training was great, you ate a good breakfast, everything's going well, that is your A goal. So that's like really your big one. Then your B goal is maybe some things are off, you're a little tired, it's windy. You can shift your mindset in the race from, okay, maybe the A goal isn't gonna happen today, like let's look at the B goal and I'll shoot for that one. And then your C goal is if shit hits the fan and everything's going wrong, what can I focus on accomplishing today. And usually my C goal is something pretty— sounds pretty silly, but like finish the last 100 faster, like run the fastest last K, or kick, because sometimes I don't have the best kick. Um, or maybe it's like have fun today. I put that as a lot of C goals for my races.

I think like for C goal, I always also like love having a process goal or something that like you could always accomplish no matter what happens. So it could be like you said, to have fun. It could just be something as simple as like, I will like— I will not— like, when the thought in my head that tells me to stop comes in, I will counter it with this mantra and finish the race. Like, I think it's really important to have one goal, but you almost can't fail that. So then you finish the race with at least some like some measure of success.

Yeah.

And then obviously, which I think is really important, is like Grayson has some dots, some spaces in here for afterwards, which I think is always really important to reflect no matter how like your race goes, to reflect upon like your race because it's always a learning experience whether it goes well or not. Um, and then yeah, I love how you have a space to prompt someone, prompt yourself to like chew the What's your favorite page of the journal?

Oh, that's a good question. Maybe the racing ABCs. Um, that's a new ad too. That was new in 2023, so that's only in the last 2 years that we've had it. I like the goals too, um, just setting goals. Goals for the year in general is fun, I think. And then maybe the books to read, because that feels out of place sometimes. But have you kept this page in?

Yeah.

Oh yeah, we did get that.

Okay, this is one of my favorites. I like the map of America, like, going off where you've traveled, because I think a lot of the time, like, races can take you all over the country. And for me, a big reason I've traveled to these many places are for races, because what been in college, like we've traveled to a lot of places, so I quite like looking at where I've been for like running. Me too, seeing like where running takes you.

Yeah, and books to read.

Oh, let's show that picture.

Yeah, did you read any books last year?

I did, but I didn't write them all in here. I wrote 2 in here. There's like a book—

Did you read any books by Matt Fitzgerald last year?

I did, he sent them to me.

There's plenty to choose from.

Wait, last year?

Yeah, I'm very on pace also. Oh, and I've just finished painting performance, so at least 2.

Here you go. So what's happening in the background here, I don't know if you can see it, is my, uh, beautiful wife Nataki is preparing vegan tacos for everyone to enjoy when we wrap up here, um, because this is how we roll. You're missing out. Um, but you don't have to. You can come to Dream Run Camp and partake of the in-person experience. Um, before we wrap up, um, let's talk about where you are now with your running. I know you had some challenges last year. You had some injuries, um, took some time off, which, uh, was probably very mature You were in Wise.

Shout out to time off.

Yeah, yeah, very helpful.

It was more forced, but yeah.

But, uh, yeah, how's it going?

It's going, yeah. Um, yeah, after winning Worlds last year, I got sick and turned out to be an autoimmune disease. I don't know, like a fun 7-month journey of figuring that out. And so some forced time off against my will, but it seems to have looking up and the treatment is working, so hopefully this year will be more controlled and less unexpected.

So do you have anything on your calendar this year?

I do, yes.

Um, would you like to tell us?

Sure, mostly Golden Trail Series and then Uh, in Circ Series US Championship races, one is in Utah this year, which I've already really hard for. Yeah, so I'm so excited to have one in my backyard. And then, um, some World Cup races and maybe some road sprinkles in if I can fit it in, because there's a lot.

So I don't know if this was mentioned, but I do just want to highlight for the They made the Olympic trials in 10 days. Grayson did qualify with a super fast half marathon. Yeah, so she's not only a phenomenal trail athlete but super speedy on the road too.

Thank you.

Yep.

Yeah, I'm sad I'm missing out. The autoimmune disease really derails Olympic trials training, as it turns out. So maybe next time.

Would you be looking to like run marathons?

I will. So we have our set on something in 2025, which I wouldn't say yet, but that is the plan right now.

Yeah. Um, actually, like, to round things out, um, say a little bit more about that, because like you're a different kind of professional runner. Um, I mean, I think it maybe is to your— um, I mean, I think it's maybe your personality. Like, you strike me as someone who, uh, you're just in tune with your yourself, and you're not afraid to make a difficult decision, um, if it's in your best interest, even if there are outside pressures, uh, that might want to push you this direction versus that. Um, and so, and so your recipe kind of has been, hey, I'll, you know, I'll steeplechase, I'll mountain run, I'll run a half marathon. Um, and it's clearly working. Um, and But that's not at your level, that's not done, that you get this hyper-specialization. I think it's part of why you chafed against, you know, your role at any, any Z Elite. Um, again, great team, but maybe not the perfect fit for, for someone like you. But I think you can model something for other runners in that regard. It's like, guess what, you can be good at more than one thing.

Yeah, and also like, you're more likely to be if you're enjoying what you're doing.

Yeah.

And like, from what I, I've known of you, it's like very much like you're following joy, like your joy compass, wherever it leads you. And like Matt was kind of saying, it's led you to all kinds of—

yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's fun to mix it up. And yeah, I don't think you have to be just a 5K runner, just a marathoner, and I think you can be successful at different disciplines, but you have to have the mindset that you can too, which is an important piece. And I think right now I do mountain running, which isn't ultra running, so I would like to say I think if you started doing ultra running, you could not run fast on the track or the road because the training at that point does diverge too far. But right now I think you can do both as long as you kind to go into it thinking that you can and not pigeonholing yourself into like one event discipline.

Um, okay, well, we're gonna wrap up episode whatever of Live from Dream Run Camp. Thank you so much, Grayson, for being with us. Please do pick up, uh, you know, My Publisher's Gonna Hate Me, or, you know, whatever. It's, it's—

I'll say this it there. Please do pick up one of Gracie's journals, they're really great. Um, we will— they'll link— well, I'll put a link in our Instagram bio for like one week only, um, to Gracie's journals. And yeah, if you come, not only can you get tacos, you can also check out these journals too.

Right on. Okay, we're gonna sign off and enjoy vegan tacos that you could would be having if you were here.