Live With: Kim Conley

All right, first time ever. Um, certain reasons for this that I'm not going to go into, but it's actually better this way, I think. It's a beautiful evening here. Um, I've got a gathering, so we're hanging around the fire pit in the backyard at Dream Run Camp in Flagstaff, Arizona. By the way, live from Dream Run Camp is brought to you by 80/20 Endurance. Thank you for your support. Um, I've got a gaggle off camera here of the latest batch of Dream Runners. Terrific people as always. Um, and sitting next to me is our special guest for this evening, Kim Conley, a local professional runner.

Hey, hey, thanks for having me, guys.

Great to be here. Um, so I had a whole list of questions prepared for Kim, but she peeked while I was busy messing with the camera.

I only saw one.

Yeah, we're just gonna—

no, okay, good.

Um, but actually, you know, I have certain things that I genuinely want to ask well, hear you, um, hear your answers to. And also, uh, we invite questions from anyone present, anyone listening. Um, doesn't have to be me all the time. Um, was it the first question you looked at?

No, just in the middle.

Cool, right on. Oh yeah, sweet. All right, we're gonna start there.

Okay, well, first of all, I feel like if you call me a history buff, there's like I don't know, a degree of knowledge associated with that. I would say I'm just like a history nerd. I really enjoy learning about it. I enjoy reading, especially about history of places that I've been or am. And so, yeah, I had a moment. I've gotten too busy lately, unfortunately, but I had a moment where I started a blog that was— it was called Running Back in Time, and it was basically tracing the history of different places that I'd run. And I started with a lot of local things because it was just so fun and exciting to dig into the history about where we were running all around here.

Beyond that, which is a really cool idea, I mean, it's like, it's outside the box as far as running blogs go. Are there any ways then beyond that in which like running and history fit together for you? Like, do you, do you like, are you interested in the history of running or?

Oh yeah, no, I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm also a total running nerd. So yeah, I definitely love learning about running history and I've been a fan of the sport for so long and I started running in 1998 and so I was very much a youth runner that came up in the sport and watched the pre-movies before every race. That was like my ritual. So yeah, the foundation of running around the world and in this country is definitely kind of core to who I am as a runner.

Is that anything you might get back to or explore more deeply in the future? Like you said, you had a moment with it, but it's not like you fell out of love with history.

No, no, not at all. It was just, um, well, I don't need to tell you, writing is hard. And so, um, yeah, I mean, it just— it like, the, the learning was really, really fun, and then the putting it together in you know, into like some coherent language that I wasn't too embarrassed to put out publicly. Like, that took a lot of work. So, um, so that was the part that got labor-intensive. And when I started coaching, all, you know, my energy started to go into that when I wasn't training myself.

Was, uh, what was your best subject in school?

Um, you know, I was, I was a funny student. There wasn't one subject. It was basically whichever teacher I liked most, they were the ones I was motivated to perform for.

Right on. That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah.

Okay. So focusing a little bit more on running, when we met for the first time, we actually had a very lengthy conversation the first time we met, and I ended up telling you about this, this book I was working on that'll come out next year about how the most talented, the highest performing youth athletes, not just in running, but in all sports, tend to not be the highest performing adult athletes. Obviously, there are noteworthy examples, but if you look at statistically, around the world in all sports, there's this reshuffling that occurs. Um, and kind of the thesis of my book is that, like, you know, talent gets you in the first, first door, gets you in the arena, you know, when everyone's untrained and they're, they're at the very beginning of the developmental process. Yeah, talent wins. But then to actually excel at the highest level as an adult, it's what you do with your talents. You have to have a, you have to have a a certain minimum of talent, but then it's what you do with it. And so I think like you're kind of exhibit A of that, wouldn't you say? Where like you say, I think it's on your website, like no one expected me to go to the Olympics, right? So can you talk a little bit about, um, like how you perceive your own talent and what, and what you've done with it to, to, to get where you are?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you said it, like no one ever expected me to go to the Olympics. And when I started running I was middle of the pack on my track team, and then when I got to junior high, I was the third fastest 7th grade girl. Like, I wasn't a standout runner, um, but I, I am competitive, um, and I'm, and I'm driven. And I think early on I had teachers and coaches that would say things like, you're so tough and you work so hard. And so I be— I got that kind of positive reinforcement that made me feel like they valued those things. And so it made me want to always be tough and really show and races that I was tough, and it made me want to work hard, you know, outside the races and train well so that I could continue to improve. And so I just made progress year after year after year. And, and, um, you know, eventually I was leading my team, eventually I was qualifying for state. And if you go from like my freshman year of high school until my first major injury as a pro, I PR'd every single season. Um, so that was like 16 years of PRs, and there was never one year where I did anything that was crazy. I never PR'd in the 5K by like 30 seconds in one season. It was always just little, like, chipping away, chipping away, chipping away. And that, that was kind of how I ascended from being like a pretty good high school runner to someone that could contend to make an Olympic team.

Uh, that phrase chipping away is something you hear from every runner, like, I guess, of your type, the ones who just maybe were under the radar early on, but then, you know, just keep getting better, reach the top, and not only reach the top but hang out there for a while. That whole chipping away mindset. But early on when, you know, you weren't expected, um, to get to the very highest level, um, you know, what was your mindset like? Did you, did you say, well, screw that, I'm going to the Olympics? Or were you— did you have more of like a short-term focus? And, and when you did break through Um, was there any kind of like imposter syndrome or I'm not sure I belong here type of baggage you dealt with?

Yes. Um, yeah, so I mean, you know, starting out, like, things that I strove for were to make sure our team won a meet. And so I knew that if I was our number 5 runner on the team, I knew who on the other team I needed to beat. And so I wasn't worried about like, oh, I'm not someone that can win a race. It was just like I had a job to do So I learned early on, like, okay, what's my job in this race? And that's what I'm going to go get done. And so I kind of always had those intermediate goals that were manageable that I could go for. And so I think I took that mindset that came from high school and college running and then was able to apply it post-collegiately. And so, yeah, when I graduated from college, my PR in the 5000 was almost a minute slower than the Olympic standard. But so it was 16:17 and back then the Olympic standard was 15:20. Um, so I wasn't even thinking about the Olympic standard. I was thinking, what do I have to do to try to break 16? I'd love to be a sub-16 5K runner. Um, so that's, that's where my mindset was. And then once I had done that, it became about, well, what do I have to do to qualify for the US Championships? And, and on and on and on. Um, when, when I did make it to the Olympics, yeah, I had imposter syndrome, and it carried over like way after the Olympics to, wow, I just had this amazing season, and 'Everybody must think I'm a fluke.' And so then I was just like so worried. I really, really felt like I had to go prove myself in the next season.

Yeah, yep, common phenomenon. Um, I might just be inviting you with this question to repeat what you just said, but like, can you flip that experience around and, and present it as advice or guidance for, you know, other runners?

Yeah, I mean, I think You have to meet yourself where you are and then set reasonable goals from there because your motivation stays high when you feel like you're checking things off your list. And it's funny, I've kept it to this day so I can, I can still see it. It makes me laugh. It's from 2010, which is right after I graduated from college, and I don't know where I got it from. Some sports psychology book. I think it was called Act Backward, and it was— A was accept your current state, C was create your desired state, and T was take, take steps to get there, something like that. And I wrote it all down. It was like, I'm a good sub-elite runner and I'm an emerging elite, and, you know, I've done this and done this. And then the desired state was like, I want to be at the Olympics in 2016, because I didn't think I'd get there by 2012. And then I had like all these steps breaking down like each year, like how much I needed to improve and like what it would take to get there. So, um, that's, that's the way I've always worked, is kind of like breaking it into steps and then knowing, okay, what's it going to take.

Right on. Um, and then were there— this is also a terrible question, overly broad— but like, are there other things, key lessons that you learned along the way? Um, you know, I mean, it seems like you were just on track all the way until you got to the top, and then it's like, all right, whole new ball game. And then, you know, in order to like just sort of stay there, get back to another Olympics, and then, you know, perform well— I mean, you represented the US, what, 8 times?

Yeah.

Yep. Um, so like, you know, just to like pad your resume with all these achievements, like, it seems like you, you can't stop learning. You have to. And you're going to experience like setbacks and failures? And are there like, is there 1, 2, or 3 like really pivotal learnings that you experienced like, you know, in that, you know, sort of at that prime, those bookends, you know, the 2 Olympics?

Yeah, I think at this stage, you know, I'm 37 and like, you know, I'm kind of, I've been doing this a long time and kind of on the tail end of my career now. When I look back, like the overarching thing I take away from my career is that you do have ups and downs, and sometimes it's really hard, and sometimes it doesn't feel very fun. And but I think if you've built a foundation in the sport that's based on love for what you're doing, then you never really feel like you're working that hard. Like, you know why you're out there. You don't have to question yourself. Um, and so I think I was very lucky that, you know, I, I never had pressure on me because no one ever thought I was going to do anything that special. I I wasn't supposed to go win a state title in high school. You know, nobody back then, it was all about Foot Locker and no, I wasn't going to qualify for Foot Locker. No one was like, you know, encouraging me, let alone pressuring me to try to do those things. So for me, it was just about learning how to love the sport. And, you know, I started meeting with an adult running club when I was in high school and going out on their Sunday long runs and learning the trails in the local park. And, you know, I was taught that you have to greet everybody with a good morning and like that, like all that stuff. Just became what running was to me. And so, you know, as I got more and more competitive, certainly I refined my approach and I, you know, I became more serious. But at the core, I think it was just all about, oh, I really, I really love the way running makes me feel.

Speaking of love, you have a great partner in your running journey and your life journey in your husband, Drew Wartenberg, who I wish was here. He was invited.

Yes.

Couldn't make it.

No, couldn't make it.

Um, just, uh, tell us a bit about like the influence, uh, he's had. I mean, this is a running podcast, but you can go beyond that.

Um, yeah, I mean, so I, I mean, part of I think what stalled my development a little bit was I had 4 coaches in high school and I had 4 coaches in college. Um, and so when I met Drew and right at the end of college, and I was considering moving out to Flagstaff to join McMillan Elite if they would have me. I wasn't sure because I hadn't gone to nationals. And, and then he also offered to, to let me stay in Davis and to coach me. And, and that for me was the, like, you know, the kind of important— and this is long before there was a relationship between us romantically. For me, it was like, well, all I really want is consistency. Um, and so, you know, for me it was like, okay, if we're gonna do this, is it going to be like commitment that, you know, like you're going to be my coach for at least 4 years? So that was our starting point. Um, and then in that blossomed, um, first a friendship and, and then for me a huge crush that took me years to win him over and cross that line. But, um, it, you know, basically we, we became a team and, and I was his assistant coach, he was the head coach in the program. And so we were working together, um, and just developing a really, you know, solid foundation as friends. And so, you know, our— now, you know, we've been married since 2015, and, um, you know, people will ask us a lot like, well, how do you separate being married and him coaching you? And I'm like, we don't. Like, we're just a team. And, you know, and so, like, you know, my goals are important to him, and we're going after them together. And, and we're both wired that we love running so much that You know, we don't mind that that's, you know, that's kind of like the foundation of our entire life. And now we started the coaching business together and like, yeah, we spend a lot of our runs just out there in the forest talking about, you know, bouncing ideas off each other and, you know, being sounding board for talking about different issues with different athletes. And so that's just how we work together.

Right on. I'd like to open it up for questions from people In the audience, everyone's staring at Sebastian, the question asker. You've got a reputation now.

I guess you kind of already answered this a little bit, but like, was there a specific moment when you realized that the Olympics were attainable and you were like, yeah, I gotta go for that?

Or was it kind of like you said, just over time you realized that, hey, like Yeah, so I'll just tell you the whole story, so it's gonna be a long answer here. But, um, so I graduated in 2009, and like I said, my time was almost a minute slower than the standard. And then I was chipping away, chipping away. And then, um, so I opened my 2012 season with a 15:24, which was one of my biggest PRs, my My prior PR was 15:38, so I'd like— in the previous seasons I'd worked down to 15:38, and then in April of 2012, my first 5K of the year was 15:24. So that was like a pretty big chunk, and it was only— I only needed to shave 5 more seconds off to get the Olympic standard. So that was the first time ever in, in April of 2012 that I was like, wait, PRing by 5 seconds is what I do. Like, I, like, I can do that. And then I was like, you know, I was looking back the, the fall before, I'd gone— I was a little naive. I'd, I'd gone to like different U.S. Road Championships and I'd finished on the podium at them. It's a lot harder to do that at the U.S. Championships, let alone the Olympic trials on the track, but I didn't know that. So I was like, and I finished on the podium at U.S. Championships. I was like, so these two things that you need to do, I was like, I can do this. Um, and so I took that mindset in with me to the Olympic trials. Um, but it's a championship race, no pacers obviously. I needed the standard, um, and so I knew that the race would be like tactical, so I had to do a lot of leading, um, and I didn't do a great job at all of keeping the pace. And so I looked at the clock at 3,000 meters and it was way too slow, and I was like, okay, like that's, that's all out the window now. Um, and so I just kind of had a little mental lapse in the race and, and started to fade back. And then with 3 laps to go, Julia Lucas made this huge hard move and just completely broke open the race because we'd all been just kind of like chilling in the pack together. And so she was gone. And then I'd been leading but like slowing down. Um, and then Molly Huddle, Julie Culley like went around me to chase her, and I was just like, oh no. And we get around the turn and more people start going by me And so I just was like fading, um, and then eventually I was just like, no more people were passing me. I was in 8th place, um, and so I was just kind of hanging out there. And, and we got to 600 meters to go and I heard Drew yelling for me and I was like, ah, like we worked way too hard to just settle in 8th place, even though 8th place would have been my highest finish ever at, you know, US Championships on the track. Um, but I knew like, well, I'm not giving the race my all, like I have to leave my heart out on the track. And so I was like there were like 3 people right in front of me, and I was like, just get into 5th place. And so I swung around, got into 5th place, and then we were like coming up on a lap to go, and I could see that Molly and Julie were catching Julia, and Julia was like really starting to slow down. And then I watched them pass her, and it was just like boom, like they went by her and she was like really fading. So as I like started the last lap, came into 300 meters to go, and Abby D'Agostino was still in between us, like I was in 5th Julia was in third, Abby was in fourth, and I was like, I can catch her. I was like, I was like, Olympic standards gone. Like, that's not happening. I'm not going to the Olympics, but I could be on the podium at the Olympic trials. Like, that would be so amazing. And so I just started like bearing down to try to like get— nab that podium spot. Um, and as I came off the final turn in Hayward Field, it was just like they were watching this like crazy drama unfold because I was just like coming hard and she was slowing down so much, but she'd had such a huge lead So it was just— I think it looked probably pretty crazy. And like, now I'll— like, I'll never be able to see— none of us will be able to see because on TV you couldn't see me because I was so far behind. Um, so I think it would— I think for the crowd it must have looked crazy because they were just like, ah, like they're all going crazy in the stands. And I was just like, I'm doing it. Um, and so we got to the line and I leaned, and I knew with my momentum, like, the way I like fell across the line compared to her. I was like, I got third. But it was a photo finish, so it took forever for them to analyze the results. Um, and so I was just standing there like, oh, I think I got third. And then they flashed the results onto the Jumbotron. The Olympic rings were next to my name, and I was third by 0.04 and under the standard by 0.21. So that, that was how I made that team. Yeah.

And that was prior to—

yeah, that was the 2012.

Yeah, yeah, I, I watched that race, uh, on television. I wasn't at Hayward, but that's when I became a Kim Conley fan, along with a whole lot of other people, because it was incredible. Um, just like a— I didn't know anything about you, but I'm like, that is a gritty, gritty runner.

It was, yeah, pretty awesome.

Um, uh, talking about like, so, um, So you, you started off in coaching underneath, like, while working, like, just being mentored, I guess, by, by Drew. And then is it something you had thought about prior to that? Um, because, like, just talking to you, you're the kind of person I'm like, oh, she would be a good coach. Um, is that something you recognized about yourself?

Okay, no, I can't believe I'm gonna answer this live, but I'm gonna tell you the truth. So I— it wasn't my plan in college. I wanted to go to physical therapy school until I did my PT internships, and then I was like This is boring. I don't like this. Okay. And so the idea of coaching really appealed to me, and my friends all started telling me, like, you would be a really good coach. But I was really hung up on the fact that literally all the people on the team that I'd be coaching had seen me naked. We were teammates, and we had done crazy, stupid college things together. And I was like, how can I be their coach. So that was like the big— that was the big mental hurdle I had to get over to kind of like reestablish some relationships. Um, but you know, in time that all faded. Those, those athletes graduated, and you know, maybe, maybe the younger ones heard some stories about me, but I, I don't need to know.

Before I— I want you to say more, but like metaphorically, I think it's actually really valuable to let your athletes see you naked. Metaphorically, you know what I mean? Like, just actually being vulnerable. And like, you know, it's something I make a point of in my coaching is like to humanize themselves— myself, you know, for them. Like, like, I actually look forward to the first time I make a mistake with— not that I want to make a mistake, but when I do make a mistake, inevitably with a new athlete I'm coaching, like I actually seize on that moment to like, to like apologize and say like, hey, I'll try to do better. And like just bringing yourself down and saying like, hey, I'm not perfect, I want to be perfect for you. So metaphorically, I'm really running with this.

No, no, you know, it's a good point because that— it was a really good lesson for me back then because I had, you know, I was thinking of going into coaching. I was looking at all the coaches I'd had, and so I'd formed this idea of what it was supposed to look like and how you were supposed to treat athletes. But what I learned over that year as I like navigated my way with trying to coach people that were kind of my peers was that it's— there's no one way you should coach, and there's no one way you should coach every individual. And so I had to figure out how to like develop good coach-athlete relationships with those people that were also my friends, um, which was like— has helped me a lot now with coaching because there's just no template, no cookie-cutter approach, and I just develop relationships individually with people to figure out what's going to make them tick and how to work best together.

Right on. Um, yeah, that was actually you leading into the next question I had in this sequence. I haven't even looked at this once, by the way. I never do. I just, I need to go through the process of making a list, and then I don't need the list. Um, but yeah, can you describe, because there, there are lots of different kinds of coaches, running coaches, Um, so, uh, can you, can you kind of characterize your style or approach?

Um, I would say that I coach the way I've been coached. Um, and by that I mean I sought a lot of attention. Um, and, and so I, I definitely try to meet every athlete where, you know, in terms of like how much attention and level of communication and interaction and learning that they want. Um, and, and everybody's different, you know. Some, some people are really busy and are like, I just want the workout to go to my watch and I want to get out the door and do it and, and that's it. And, and some people really want to understand like, well, why am I doing what I'm doing? And, um, and so yeah, I like to just kind of like meet everyone where they are and give people as much as they need.

Right on.

Yeah.

I think I'm gonna have to look at those. I had it, I had, I had my follow-up teed up Um, oh yes. Um, so you have worked with a sports psychologist for some time, yes?

Yeah.

Um, tell us like why, I guess. I mean, I know why— I kind of know why, like generally why someone would do that. Um, but how has it benefited you? And then has that bled over, um, that experience, has it bled over into how you coach?

Yeah.

When did you start?

Yeah, no, so, um, so I think, you know, kind of because like I talked about, my, my roots in the sport were very much on the like, yeah, I'm tough and I work hard. I, um, I was always curious about sports psychology because I felt like I wasn't a very talented runner, but I felt like maybe my talent was my mental strength. Um, so it was always like a concept that I was like, oh, this is interesting, I want to explore it. And so when I got college at UC Davis, I was introduced to a sports psychology consultant there, Dr. Paul Selitsky. So that was in 2004, and he is who I work with today.

We have—

he has been on the entire journey with me. And so it's, yeah, I mean, the, the way our relationship has evolved, you know, it— some of, like, in the beginning it was very much kind of just like the fundamentals of Sport psychology, different tools, goal setting, things like targeting. So like, you know, when you're in a race and you're not where you thought you would be and you start to kind of mentally unravel, like I did in the Olympic trials race, you know, it's like I faded back to 8th place and I was like, oh no, what am I doing back here? And then it's like, no, just get to 5th. Like, that's, that's what we call targeting, where it's like you stop worrying about the top 3 finish and it's like, what can you do right now to improve from where you are. So we worked on skills like that in the beginning, um, and then it just, it evolved over the years because, you know, he, he's one of, you know, one of like a great friend that I've had, um, and so like the 2016 Olympic year, well, leading into it in 20— at the end of 2015, my dad got really sick and passed away, um, and so that was like, you know, that was probably mentally the most challenging episode of my career, um, in terms of balancing all my goals and everything I wanted to do, going heading into an Olympic year, and also feeling like I can't abandon my family right now. And we were going into the holidays, and but getting messages from my dad before he died that you were kind of like, you need to keep doing this. And so it was like there was a lot to kind of like mentally, emotionally navigate at that time. And so Dr. Paul was there through all of that. I even made an altitude camp out here during, during that period, and he came out just to like, you know, make sure that, um, I remember telling him like, because he was like, you need to go home for Christmas, and we were here over Christmas, and I was like, no, like, it's altitude benefit, like cell scrambling, you can't, like, you can't mess that time up. And he's like, your brain cells are scrambling. So he really, like, he just started, like, he was there for me, um, through that whole period to just kind of like, you, you know, get me to the Olympic trials, um, you know, allowing me to compartmentalize the way I needed to, to get what I needed to do done, um, and also still be there for my family.

In terms of that, paying that experience forward in your coaching?

Yeah, I mean, well, a lot of the skills, um, that we worked on over the years, like, those are kind of like easy things for me to explain to people to kind of help them through the, the mental side of of training and racing. Um, and then I also think just the way, you know, he wasn't my coach in terms of writing the X's and O's of training, but he was kind of— he's a member of the coaching team is the way I saw it. Um, and you know, the way he treated me just as a human being always like really resonated for me. Um, and so that, that's also influenced a lot for me, the way, um, I just feel like with the people I coach, I'm always like running has to be your stress relief. Like, running has to enhance your life. Um, and so if we ever get to a point where you feel like the workouts are stressful or putting races on the calendar are stressful, um, and it's not fun, then we have to take a step back and figure out how to put the enjoyment back into it, which— that's all stuff that he gave to me. Right on.

I don't need to look at this. Any other questions from the gallery before I plow ahead?

I got one.

What—

I mean, out of your entire career thus far, is your most fulfilling, your most favorite moment? Yeah. So 2014, the U.S. Championships were in Sacramento, which was where— after I graduated from UC Davis, like, I lived in Sacramento for 10 years and it's only 2 hours away from where I grew up. So when the U.S. Championships were there, um, my whole family came over, all these friends, running coaches from the past. And then my sister was getting married the next week, so it was like family flew in from all over the world, like, in time to be at the race and then stay for the wedding. So it was just like a very big, um, like festive kind of time for the family, and we had lots of people around. Um, and I went head-to-head with Jordan Hasse in the 10,000 that year, um, and she sat on me the entire time, like, like clipping my heels. And I just knew she was waiting to pounce and waiting to pounce. And with 300 to go, she just flew by me. And then somehow, with like 150 to go, I was just like, the gap's not growing, the gap's not growing. And I managed to just like rally, um, and slingshot— oh no, she went wide, and I was able to take the inside lane and, and beat her to the finish. So that was— I won my first national title there. Um, with, you know, and again, just like the hometown feel of that crowd, because I'd done so much of my training, I'd kind of built my career in Sacramento, and then I had that whole influence from Santa Rosa. Um, it was just a very electric atmosphere, like feeling like there was so much support in the stands for me. So it was really fun.

Yeah. Yes, excellent question. Good segue to, uh, the, the next is like, where are you now in your your career. You mentioned that you are probably toward, toward the tail end of it. I know you've moved up to the marathon recently. I know you've dealt with some— an injury or two recently. Um, so we all want to see you pull off the Paris thing.

Thank you. Uh, yeah, I mean, Olympic trials, um, in the marathon in February, that's what I'm training for. Um, and Yeah, I mean, I would say the, the final remaining goal I have is just to run a marathon that I feel proud of and that I feel like reflects my ability. And I've only run 2 marathons so far, and neither one of them have gone well. So I'm definitely not willing to retire until I've nailed it and just can kind of like hang my hat on something I feel good about. So that's, that's where I am right now is trying to master that puzzle.

What prompted the switch from what sounded like mostly shorter distances earlier in your career to now?

Um, well, it was partly that I just always had that vision, um, that, you know, I'd— I thought originally that I'd go through 2016 on the track and then by 2020 be in the marathon, and then some injury stuff prevented me from feeling ready to go for it in 2020. Um, and then also I just felt like I'd reached my ceiling on the track. I wasn't improving anymore in the 5,000. Um, if I'd stayed, I probably could have run a little faster in the 10,000, but, um, I don't know, there was just an appeal to moving up, to feeling like I had room to grow and continue to develop in the marathon.

Uh, do you— are you confident you have a good marathon in you? Like, you know, the things that, that did go wrong in the first two weren't signs that you just don't have it. Like, there are, you know, lessons in them that you can apply, um, to, to have that satisfying marathon you can hang your hat on.

Yeah, there— no, definitely. Um, Definitely, I feel like there are things I can improve upon. I never imagined that I would still be doing this at 40, so I don't want to be. And so I don't feel like time is on my side. Like, I kind of feel I'm a little— I'm putting a little bit of pressure on myself right now. Like, I really, really want to get this done. Um, but yeah, no, I mean, definitely, definitely there were some takeaways with the, with the first two marathons that Um, right now I'm feeling kind of excited about making some changes that will like hopefully lead to a breakthrough.

Not that it has any relevance at all, but it took me 50 tries to run a marathon.

That's a little daunting.

I'm a much slower learner than you are. Uh, where do you see yourself? And this is a stupid question, but sometimes you get a good answer from it.

10 years. 10 years. Okay, I'll be 47. It will be 2033. You'll have 5 kids. Oh no. Um, yeah, that's, that's an interesting question. I mean, I, I would really like the coaching business to have like national recognition, um, and I'm, I'm excited to get to a point where I can put all my energy into that. Um, and there I like, I've toyed with the idea of going the like USATF coaching route, you know, to, to be on national teams in that capacity. I'm not sure yet. I'm not 100% if that's something I want to pursue. It's an interesting ballgame. But, but yeah, I mean, yeah. So when you say it, when you say that like 10 years, I'm like, okay, well, that's still— that has appeal to me to try to, try to serve on those teams.

Right on. Um, before I wrap up, any more questions from the gallery?

Um, so when you were just talking about where you'll be in 10 years, um, as your career draws to a close, how do you envision your relationship with running changing? Yeah, if at all.

Yeah.

Um, you know, I don't really, and that— I think that's because of the way I started, um, which was Every Fourth of July I did the local Fourth of July race and I painted my face as the American flag and it was just fun, you know, like, and, and so I like, well, joking, I'll make these jokes to my husband, he just kind of facepalms, he's like, I don't know what to do with you. But I like, I have my first retirement year racing calendar that I'm putting together. It's just, you know, it's not elite fields, and it's kind of like back to the basics, back to the— my roots, um, doing some of the races that I used to do that I've always loved. Um, and so, you know, I'd love to go do the alumni cross-country race for my high school, like things like that, things that I just have missed out on for this whole window of being a pro. Um, I can't wait to do that stuff. And so when I think about it like that, I'm like, well, my relationship's never really going to change because I think I love running. I love that afterglow of a hard effort from working out. I like to feel purposeful with my workouts, like I'm training for something. So I think I'm always going to put races on the schedule and be working towards something, um, you know, just, just not the same type of goals that I've had before.

Maybe a silly question, maybe not, but given face to face with What, what was the most either unexpected or exciting thing for you about being—

oh, that's an interesting question. The swag.

That's a totally valid answer.

Um, you know, I think the most unexpected thing was how quickly the world moves on from the celebration of you making an Olympic team to, are you going to bring home gold? And it was— it really like took me by surprise that, you know, it was just like I'd— I'd like— both times really. I mean, 2012 obviously was just like incredibly, you know, just like so shocking. And 2016 was more like, you know, a few— I did, did the job I thought I was supposed to do. But it's still thrilling, you know, to have that moment where you're like, I'm going to the Olympics. Um, but then it's just like, it shifts so quickly to everyone around you being like, what are you going to do at the Olympics? And then, um, and then, you know, in our culture, it's just the value on the Olympics is so high, you know. And so I, I feel bad for my friends because I feel like you just, you kind of get lucky. Like, you have to have a good year and stay healthy and deliver the right race on the right day. And I did it twice, which is awesome, but I have lots of friends who worked just as hard as me and wanted just as much as me. And, you know, they've had amazing races, just not at the Olympic trials. And so, um, I feel— I always feel bad when I can see that they don't feel like they have the same, like, level of validation in their career because they haven't gone to the Olympics. And then for me, it's the funny moments of, like, visiting a Girl Scout troop one time, and then at the end they're like, but which color medal did you win? And I'm like, but I didn't. And everybody's just like Oh, so yeah, that, that definitely took me by surprise.

Um, yeah, I'd just like to wrap up by briefly describing, uh, our first encounter, uh, in person. So it was at a bagel run, a tradition here in Flagstaff, Thursday morning, all comers group runs. And, uh, you and Drew were just tailgating, not— I mean, dry tailgating, but literally sitting on the tailgate of your vehicle. And I And we were just getting ready to— well, everyone else was running. I was just hanging out. I'm like, I think that's Kim Conley. And you didn't seem to have anything better to do. So I walked up, introduced myself, and I thought, you know, I try to be respectful, you know, because like of people who get that a lot, you know what I mean? And just, I wasn't going to take up a lot of your time. And like an hour goes by and like eventually I'm trying to get away from you. I'm like, this is amazing. Like, these two are acting like— and I, I think I asked you, like, do you just hang out here all day? Um, but I've gotten to know you a little better since then. It's just, it seems like that's just who you are. You and Drew are very like a pair, um, and are just very open. I mean, you were there for a reason. You made yourselves recognizable and available, and we're knowing, you know, what could happen, you know. And so what, is that a matter of like principle, or is it just like wiring?

Um, Okay, well, my side of the story— I was coming back from injury and very excited to be back at the Bagel Run, and all my friends are running longer, so I'd only gone pretty short. And then we were just like hanging out, like waiting for everybody to come back from the Bagel Run, um, for, you know, because the Bagel Run, the run itself isn't that great. You start downtown, you wind through campus before you have to go like 3 miles before you get anywhere good. So the best part is the social aspect. Like I'm really there to hang out and see people. And especially in the summer, people from all over the country come in. Um, there's lots of like high school and college people, like cross-country runners doing camps. It's really— it's like a fun atmosphere. So we were sitting there on the bumper waiting for everyone to come back, and he walked by, and I was like, is that Matt Fitzgerald? So then he came over and we started talking, and I was just very excited to like learn, learn about all of this.

Right on. Cool.

Sweet.

I like that version of the story, quite frankly. Um, yeah, but the reason I told it is because, like, I mean, I mean, you and Drew both are, like, very likable people. Like, you, you contribute a lot to the sport. People like you just help make the sport as beautiful as it is. So thank you for that. Thank you. Um, thank you for giving us a little bit of your time on a Thursday afternoon. That's it for episode whatever of Live from Dream Run Camp, our first outdoor episode. I have a feeling not our last. Um, be well everyone. Thanks again, Kim.