Paige Wood: Running Highs and Lows: Postpartum, Puberty and Pro

Sad this evening because our two dream runners who are staying here right now are otherwise occupied at the moment, but the show had to go on. Better planning on my part in the future will avoid a repetition of this scenario, but it's not tragic. They will be filtering in as we do our thing this evening. Thank you for tuning in live or watching from the future. I'm super delighted to have Paige Wood here with me, member of the Hoka Naz Elite professional running team. Welcome, Paige.

Thanks for having me.

Right on. Is it okay to say Naz now?

I think so. Okay, because like, was that not okay for a while?

Well, you know, in 2017 I stayed with, uh, Matt Yano for the summer when he was on the team.

Yeah.

And he was very much against it, and like, I was like a Matt Yano loyalist, you know. It's like he let me stay in his house for 13 weeks Yeah, I see. So I'm like, hey, whatever he says, like, I'm not going to say Naz. And then, like, you know, the years go by and more and more and more, I'm like, I don't want to be the last one still insisting on N-A-Z.

I think N-A-Z is the more common, but I haven't heard anyone get upset about Naz. So, yeah.

Right on. Because Naz has a nice sound to it.

I agree. Yeah.

Yeah. All right, cool. But I would respect your wishes. I was— I really wanted to know. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it would be interesting to start by having you just share kind of where you are right now in your running and your life.

Sure. Yeah. So I'm currently 5 and a half months postpartum. So had my first baby, Nolan, back at the end of November.

Where's Nolan?

Nolan, you want to make an appearance? My husband Cody is keeping him occupied right now, but They're not far away. Can come make an appearance.

Yeah. I mean, you know, we're trying to make the show work. Say hi. You need kids. And what else do you need, Lauren? Oh, we had one.

Luna made an appearance.

Oh, really? Already? Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. So this is Nolan. Say hi. Say hi to everyone.

Nolan's interested in the host.

Yeah.

Or the clock. Actually, it's not the host. It's the clock.

There's a lot to look at in here.

You're doing great, Nolan.

Um, but yeah, so I started kind of getting back into running, like initially walk running, about a month after he was born, and was really just trying to take my time, listen to my body, draw on the experience of my teammates who've had babies. You know, I was kind of—

you've got a few.

Yeah, yeah, I got a few, and I was not far behind Steph, about 2 months behind her. So, you know, she was kind of like 2 steps ahead of me all the time, which was super nice during pregnancy.

Yeah, that's ideal.

And the postpartum phase. Yeah, because I could be like, hey, what were you doing at this point? Um, and it obviously is different, super different for everyone, both pregnancy and postpartum, but it is nice to at least have a couple people as well as like other women in the Flagstaff area who have had babies to just be able to go to for advice. Yep. Um, so yeah, so taking advice and just listening to my body in those early weeks especially, but now as well. And, um, yeah, I was just kind of slowly building back up mileage, just doing easy runs. I think for about the first 12 weeks, I think it was around 3 months was when we kind of did my first— Jack had me doing my first baby workout, you know, just kind of like fartlek, test the waters a little bit. Um, and we've just been really slowly building from there, like Their big emphasis has been let's keep you healthy, let's try to avoid injury this first year. You know, it's been really common with postpartum women at some point in that first year to see bone injuries especially, you know, are common. So we're doing everything we can to avoid that and playing the long game. And yeah, like anything that goes well this year, I'm just kind of seeing as like icing on the cake. And my big focus, I would say, is like 2025 for sure. Hopefully we're like really rolling. And, um, but yeah, this later this year as well, you know, I'm definitely gonna race. I have my first race on the calendar right now set for like mid-July, so nice coming up here soon. Actually, I'm doing kind of, I would call it like a practice race, not this weekend but the following. I'm going to the Ferguson Twilight meet that I think Ben's been a part of for a long time in the St. Louis area. And so I'm going to go there and run a 10K and just kind of—

Sweet.

Yeah. Get in a harder effort, harder than anything I've done so far. Yeah. Just kind of see where we're at.

That's— are you looking forward to that?

Yeah, I'm super excited. I've only gotten to put the HOKA uniform on once, February 2023. So it's been a while. And yeah, I'm just really looking forward to getting back into racing. Yeah.

Well, that sounds like a really smart approach. 'Cause like, for me, like, I'll never be pregnant, but like the thing I always struggled with as an athlete is like patience, like playing the long game. I mean, you have to be patient to be like a runner, but like there are impatient runners and like, I would always like, I could just imagine like if I did go through a pregnancy and have a child, like I would be in a hurry. I just would and I would have to fight it, but just like, What you described just seems smarter to me. Yeah. Is it hard, you know, to be, to be that patient?

Sometimes, yes. I think, you know, just seeing what everyone else is doing, you know, like we just had the marathon trials back in February and obviously that got me super excited and seeing all the fall marathons, you know, towards the end of my pregnancy, I was like, oh, I just can't wait to be back out there. At the same time, I'll say You know, like especially those first 3 months, you're just super sleep deprived and don't have the most energy. So there were a lot of days where it's like, it wasn't too hard to be like, yeah, you know, we don't need to push it here. Um, I would say just in the last probably like month or so is when I've like really started to feel a little more like myself and things are coming around and just did my first double since last July about a week ago. Twice. Um, so yeah, I feel like I've just tried to be really honest with myself about how much energy do I really have, and like, do I want to go on a double? Do I feel like I actually have the energy for that? Um, so yeah, it's really just trying to stay in tune with my body, and then, you know, giving Jack lots of feedback, and he's been checking in with me just to say like, hey, is what we're doing comfortable right now? Are we progressing things you know, um, like, do you feel like we're progressing things at good intervals right now? And yeah, he's been good about checking in, and I feel like, yeah, he's been kind of progressing me really, um, like perfectly, it's felt so far. It's like nothing's felt over the top or too hard to handle, and at the same time, I haven't felt like ready for more than what he's given me. So it's been good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it sounds like it's— you're— you are fortunate to be involved in a pretty healthy sporting culture, you know, that just, you know, there's what's in your interest and there's whether, you know, your employer supports what's in your interest. It's huge. And we all know so many examples where that's not the case.

Yeah.

So that's got to feel good.

Absolutely. That's been a huge part of it is just how supportive HOKA is. Like, I cannot thank them enough the entire pregnancy. And then yeah, there's been no pressure or timeline or expectations of you need to be back for this or anything like that. And because of that, I've felt like, okay, I really do want to take my time. I do want to do this the right way because I have that privilege. And that's, yeah, like you said, not, not something many women have had.

Yes.

And, um, yeah, so I, I've really tried to take advantage of that and I'm so appreciative of their support.

That's great.

Great.

Yeah. So I mean, how's the motherhood part of it?

It's been good. It's been a huge learning curve for sure. And, you know, just a huge life transition. I've talked to a couple people who have multiple kids and they're like, yeah, for sure, 0 to 1 is the hardest. You know, it just changes your whole life. So yeah, there's definitely like so many amazing, beautiful parts of it that have been so fun. And then there's also like you know, been a lot of challenges and sleepless nights and yeah, just getting used to the new normal. But yeah, it's been incredible and we're so blessed to have him.

Yeah, this is our first DreamRun Camp baby. We've had lots of kids here, but like, you know, like in terms of like stealing the show at 5 and a half months, you're a pioneer, Nolan. Yes, cool. So I guess rewinding now, you grew up in the great state of Pennsylvania. Yes, correct.

Yep.

And yeah, just tell us about how you grew up.

Okay, yeah, so yeah, I'm from Pottsville, Pennsylvania, small town about 2 hours northwest of Philadelphia, and I grew up playing tons of sports and I was especially loved, um, soccer, softball, gymnastics. Hi there, you gonna give him a bath? You're so sweet.

I'm sorry, should we stop this?

He's used to it. We have a dog at home, we have a golden retriever. Um, but yeah, so I grew up like being super active, and then, um, when I was in 7th grade the high school was trying to start a junior high team, and they were just kind of approaching parents who had kids in lots of sports, you know, and who they thought might be interested. And someone told my mom about it, and my mom explained to me what cross-country was, and I was like, that sounds really dumb, I don't think I'm interested in that. I loved soccer in the fall, so I was like, no, I'm just gonna stick to soccer, and yeah, I don't have any interest in that. And then at the time, I actually had a huge crush on my husband, So we've grown up together, like known each other forever, and I found out he was doing cross country. So then I was like, well, I guess maybe I'll give it, I'll give it a shot.

I did not know this story.

Yeah, so that's actually initially how I got into, really got into running. Um, I had done like a little bit of youth track, like the Hershey Track and Field Games before that when I was younger, but that was my initiation to cross country. We had like 5 kids on our junior high team. Um, but it was a lot of fun. Like, I very quickly fell in love with it and just loved getting lost in the woods. Like, I just thought it was so cool seeing all these places that were in my hometown, you know, that I didn't know existed. Um, and just, yeah, I loved the outdoors exploration kind of aspects of it. And then, yeah, we didn't have, um, junior high track, so that was— track was kind of new to me in high school, other than, like I said, those kind of, you know, a couple youth meets that that I'd done. Um, so yeah, then, you know, like gave up soccer and softball, gymnastics, all those things in high school. Yeah, uh, started focusing on running then. And I would say my freshman year I was super naive, kind of went in with very what I thought were high goals. Like I wanted to break 20 minutes for the 5K I ran 18:40-something, I think, in my first race, you know, just like really surprised myself. Um, and then ended up placing second at States my freshman year. Um, so yeah, it just definitely had a lot of natural talent. My high school coach was super laid back and like we were, yeah, very undertrained and she just kept it really fun. And I'm grateful for that now. I think that's, you know, leading to longevity in my career and I definitely don't feel burnt out and had a great college career. Yeah, and I had some ups and downs in high school, like definitely, you know, we see a lot of women going through puberty at that age. Like I definitely went through that period of kind of slowing down for a little, getting used to my new body, and then by my senior year was finally beating all my freshman times, and that was like really rewarding to finally see like, okay, I stuck with it and I'm coming out of that and Again, like, grateful that I went through that transition in high school because I was super healthy all of college and still to this day. But yeah, went to Syracuse. I went to Lipscomb initially, did a year and a half there, transferred to Syracuse halfway through my sophomore year. And yeah, that's, I think, more than what you asked about my hometown.

No, yeah, just like, like, I had, I had my next question all queued up. I'm like, now I got two So yeah, pick them. Yeah, I think I'll start with the second one actually. So I don't know, there's kind of like a little bit of a theme emerging. You know Erin Strout?

I've heard the name.

Yeah. So she lives here in town. She's a journalist, writes about running, like particularly like women's running. And she has a new book coming out and it's about mental health in women's athletics. It's just not running, it's everything. And so the authors are like two women athlete psychologists, and then Erin was kind of like the writer, and it's just all about how like, kind of honestly what a shit show it is for so many like girls and women in sports, and just like the real damage that is being done like kind of systemically and has been for a long time. And so we had a really interesting discussion about that, and I read the book and it's excellent. Like, like The Price She Pays is what it's called.

I think I have heard of it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's going to make a pretty big splash.

Yeah. Yeah.

Super. I mean, I was going to say eye-opening, but like, we know, but like, this is like kind of more solution-focused.

Yeah.

Yeah. But, but what you're describing, some of your experiences are like the way it's supposed to be, you know, and it's nice that the way it's supposed to happen actually does sometimes.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Because like, you know, I mean, we've talked about like your current situation.

Yeah.

But it sounds like, you know, your high school thing that like freshman phenom like goes through a dip, you know, that's very much related to puberty and then comes out the other side better than ever.

Right.

And lives happily ever after. Like, you know, that can happen.

Yeah, it should be the norm.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's great. I don't know. What advice do you have?

I think you just have to stay patient, right? Like, it's, it's, it's not fun during that time where it's, you know, it can be really frustrating. And especially like you see the male, the males who are, you know, of similar age to you that I was beating as a freshman and they go through puberty and it only benefits them, right? And they just get better and better, and meanwhile you like feel like you're training so hard and you just don't see those same jumps initially. And I think, you know, you just have to like stick with it. Like I said, be patient and let your body go through the changes. You really can't fight it. Um, it's okay, buddy.

Uh-oh, meltdown.

Yeah, I'm gonna pass them off.

Thanks, Nolan.

Um, but yeah, during that time I kind of just like would focus on like during track season, you know, like other things like team events, you know, like the 4x8, and like just try to take the focus off of like constantly chasing after PR every year when, you know, maybe that's just— it's not plausible or you can't expect that when you're going through those changes. But yeah, it's— there's no, there's no easy way to— I don't know, like, you just— I think patience is really, yeah, the biggest, biggest thing.

And support. And of course, that you just kind of have to have.

Yeah. And trusting that you will come out of it, like, it is for the best. I think sometimes when you're young like that, it's hard to believe that going through those changes really is for your benefit and that you will be able to eventually run faster and be stronger. But I can promise you, like, the evidence is there. It's the better route for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think ultimately, I think we're on our way to a point where freshman phenoms are going to be aware of all of this, you know what I mean? And so if, if like a, like a kind of dip comes, it's kind of like almost like a cocooning period. Like what, you know, if and when it comes, it's like, it's almost like embraced. Cause it's like, oh yeah. Like when I come out the other side of this.

That's a great way to put it. Yeah, totally is like, as much as it's hard in the moment, like be so excited for what's to come. Yeah. The other side's better.

It's normal. And then you have all these, you know, role models like you, it's like, Yeah, look at me now. Yep, yep, yep. Um, yeah, um, and then, yeah, so the question I did have teed up to ask before, uh, it was good that you, you gave a longer answer. There was a lot of good stuff in there, but it sounds like, um, it sounds like you, you fell in love with your future husband and fell in love with running at the same time. Yeah, is that true?

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, what was that like? Yeah, seriously.

So yeah, so when I was in junior high, like I said, I just had the biggest crush on him. I don't think he knew at the time, um, but we would be out on these runs. Like I said, there were like 5 people on the team. I think there were 2 of us girls, 3 guys, um, and I would be running with him, just the 2 of us, a lot, you know, which I just of course was like, this is the best thing ever. Even though we would just run in like total silence like 90% of the time, you know, it's like we didn't really have anything to talk about. And honestly, we like, I feel like we took most of our easy runs pretty hard, you know, like we would kind of run a lot of them at like a tempo effort, or maybe it was for me just trying to keep up with them. And I also have a terrible sense of direction, so I was like, I gotta stay with them so I don't get lost. So that was kind of the junior high days, and then in high school, yeah, like my freshman year we weren't dating yet, but same thing, you know, just was like, I really like this guy, and then he finally asked me out, what felt like an eternity to me, my sophomore year. He initially asked me to— we had a Christmas prom at my high school, he asked me to Christmas prom, and then shortly after that we started officially dating, and it was just so fun then, like, you know, getting— like we've just grown up together, and So yeah, it's awesome. It's crazy to look back on, you know, those early days. Feels like a lifetime ago now. Yeah, yeah. And then eventually he went on to play Ultimate Frisbee and got super into that. He's played that at the club and pro level and traveled to a world championship in Australia for that. And so he actually gets the claim that he holds a world title. I'm always like saying like, you know, it's a legitimate sport. Yeah, yeah. He's He's the only one in the family who can say that. But yeah, so that's kind of the trajectory.

Yeah, that's just neat. Excuse me. So you went to Syracuse University. Yes. So that is my mom's alma mater. Yes. So yeah, she passed away at the end of 2022. And so like any association I can find, I'm like, ah, Yeah, so it's just cool because like, you know, not everyone went to Syracuse.

No, it's pretty rare. Like, you run into a Syracuse alum.

Yeah. So you, you know, you were in Pennsylvania, you end up there. They have, they have some pretty good programs there. Did they— well, just tell us how you got there.

Yeah, so I initially went to Lipscomb University, and I loved the school, and I loved my teammates there. The coach at the time, different coach now, I always like to throw throw that out there so I don't steer people away from looking at Lipscomb. Great university. Um, but yeah, the coach when I was there was just very intense. The training was very intense, and a lot of people were injured or burned out. And, um, yeah, just kind of talking to some of the upperclassmen, uh, they really encouraged me that if running— you know, I had that goal of being a professional eventually, and if that was something I was seriously interested in, that I might look elsewhere. So ended up transferring to Syracuse halfway through sophomore year. A couple Pennsylvania women were on the Syracuse team at the time, so I had some connections and I reached out to them. There was no transfer portal or any of that stuff that there is now, so you really had to kind of do your research and you were the one to initiate conversations with coaches and athletes. Um, so yeah, I talked to some of those ladies. They had just finished 12th at Nationals in 2015, I want to say. The men had just come off of winning nationals, right?

Yes.

Um, you know, same coaches, same resources. So I was like, yeah, there's no reason. Um, I was like, yeah, no reason that the Syracuse women can't win a national title as well. So it seemed like they were on the up and up, and, um, yeah, we're doing great stuff on the track as well. So that's what kind of drew me in. Yeah.

Yeah. So, okay, now that's interesting. So, so you've had these experiences. It just goes to show you it's not all luck. So you've had— you had like a very— like, seems like you had a healthy culture around you as a high school runner, you know, which allowed you to just like, you know, mature and develop in a natural way. It's like, well, that was lucky. And then you have a college experience, which I didn't know about, where, well, to bookend it, like now you're in a situation, also very healthy culture, and you're benefiting from that. It's like, well, how'd you get from here to here? This one was luck, but it seems like the rest was choice. And you actually were exposed to an environment where you're like, you know what, this is not so That, you know, the credit goes to you. You know, like you could have just stayed there. You could have just accepted it or felt like it was your fault somehow. Right. But you didn't.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. That was hard. It was a hard decision to make. Like I said, I really loved my teammates. Some of them are still my best friends to this day. And yeah, it was challenging. Like, I love the university as well. But like I said, I really did have that dream of making it to the next level in running and it really did seem like unlikely to happen there. So decided to make the leap and it's definitely worth it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you, I mean, the record shows you kicked butt at Syracuse.

Yeah, it went well.

Yeah. Well, what were the highlights?

Yeah, I think Like my— so I wish I would have had more cross-country seasons there. I did unfortunately use 2 seasons of eligibility for cross-country at Lipscomb, only 1 track season. So I did get 3 years of track at Syracuse. And, um, yeah, I didn't really think of myself as the best cross-country runner. I kind of saw myself as more of a track runner, and Syracuse was like really known for their cross-country. As I just said, the men had just won that national title, and They were like, you're here, you're gonna love cross country. And I really did fall in love with it. And my senior year, so my second cross country season there, our team made nationals and we had kind of had a couple women get injured early in the season. We had, after my first semester there, so I had a, my first semester there was a spring semester and there were 15 women graduated that spring. So we actually only had, I think, 7 or 8 women return that fall, my first cross-country season. So it was like we were really rebuilding. So just, we missed nationals my first cross-country season in 2016, but then 2017 managed to make it with, like I said, lots of underclassmen, a couple women who had got injured. So it was really, really cool that we were still able to make that happen. And, um, I was able to finish 17th in an All-American spot.. And it was my first time, you know, being at that stage. So that was super exciting. Um, and then I think that, yeah, kind of propelled the rest of my time there. Um, that spring I finished third in steeplechase at NCAAs. And then my fifth year, um, in 2019, when I just had that track season, um, I did like my whole time there, I was kind of doing steeplechase, 5K, 10K. But yeah, I ran some big PRs in all the events and had a really hard time deciding between the 10K and steeplechase for NCAAs that year. And still to this day, I'm like, I kind of regret not doing steeplechase because that year was the year that it was in Austin, Texas, and it was a really hot 10K, and that was tough coming from upstate New York. But yeah, I mean, I loved my time there so much. The coaches were awesome, the team was great, and Yeah, can't speak highly enough of my experience there.

Syracuse, everyone.

Syracuse. ACC is going on as we speak right now. That's right.

Yeah. So I would like to acknowledge, so I opened, you were not here for it, but I opened by expressing my sadness for your absence here, Vic. So I just want— I apologize. No, no, no, no, like, no, I apologize. Because we discussed this, but yeah, we just had to get going. So glad you're here, and I wanted to— so Vic is visiting with— those are his wonderful pooches who've been making cameos here. But I wanted to give you, Vic, the opportunity to ask a question of our esteemed guest if you had one. I can buy you time. It's like when the waiter comes too soon and you're not ready to order. Well, no, I mean, um, have you ever done— I mean, I guess I'm not familiar with collegiate. I didn't do athletics like that or anything like that. This is much more recreational. So have you done anything after that of training camps going away, or do you mostly train on your own with coaches where you live?

Yeah, so initially when I graduated, I joined a team in Charlottesville, Virginia that was Reebok sponsored. And I was there for, I guess, like 2.5, 3 years. And then I moved to Flagstaff July 2022 and kind of was training on my own for a couple months. And then I joined the NAZ Hoka team in January 2023. So I've been with them, yeah, just a little over a year now. Very nice. Yeah.

Do you guys get any super great getaways then through the year, or are you always training here?

We're pretty much based here. Yeah, when I was with Reebok, I did one altitude trip to Mammoth Lakes, California, and a trip here, and I really, really loved it here. So, um, kind of had the dream of being able to make it work to be here full-time.

Yeah, cool. Uh, thank you, Vic. Um, yeah, and I know Becky will filter it at some point Probably very soon, actually. Yes, moving on. Shoot, I wanted to— obviously there's more of your point A to point B journey we could get into, but I really wanted to pick your brain on coaching. Okay. Because like not every, you know, runner who ascends to the elite level is I mean, it's sort of like, you know, it's like, it's like an obvious thing to do because it's like you're really good at it and you're experienced and you're knowledgeable, but it's not for everyone. And so did it kind of speak to you at some point? And if so, when?

Yeah, I would say during my time at Syracuse. Yeah, I would start kind of picking Coach Bell's brain about why we did certain workouts and, He actually a couple times was like, you know, would give me the opportunity to kind of think like a coach and be like, okay, this is the situation, this is the athlete, what workout would you give him or her? So that was cool for him to challenge me in that way and just kind of get me thinking since I had been talking to him and really enjoyed those conversations and learning, yeah, the science behind it. And yeah, so I was interested after college in getting into it. And, um, the opportunity presented itself. I think it was like early 2020, right around the start of COVID um, that Ryan Hall had started his Run Free training program, um, with Jay Stevenson. And he reached out to me. I had actually spoken to Ryan at the end of my collegiate career, um, as, yeah, a potential, like I, you know, considered working with him. And so, yeah, I got to know him a little bit and had just said, you know, even though I didn't end up working with him, that down the road if, you know, he needed another coach for Run Free, that I would be interested in helping out. So yeah, he reached out to me in that early 2020, and yeah, that's how I got into it.

And so, yeah, gotta linger just for a minute on Ryan and and what influence he may have had on you. He's just such an interesting guy. I've known him for a long time. He's like, I mean, what I love about him is he's just so uniquely himself. You know what I mean? And so maybe not everyone appreciates it. I always have. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, he's adding something. Yeah, um, but yeah, like, I'd just be interested to hear your, um, you describe like what, what effect he has had on you.

Yeah, I think more than anything, probably just to not be afraid to try something different. Maybe it's different from kind of the traditional training that you see most athletes doing. Um, I think you'd see that with the way he trained Sarah, and then Just the way, yeah, he's, he's experimented with himself a lot during his career, right? He was coaching himself towards the end of his career, and he wasn't afraid to, yeah, just think outside the box and, um, challenge the norm. And so I think, yeah, he's just like pushed me to kind of think outside the box, right? Is like, um, he kind of will tell us like, hey, this is typically—

Come on in, Becky, everyone! I said she'd be joining. Come on, come on in.

Yeah, so he'll kind of give us some plans to look at of like, hey, this is typically what works and this is kind of a traditional plan, but like really get to know your athlete and don't be afraid to try something new or just, you know, really get lots of feedback from them and Obviously, I work with most people who are working full-time, so you're learning to work with their schedules and how much energy they actually have to put into training. But yeah, I would say more than anything, he has just shown me, like, don't be afraid to get really experimental. And I tell that to all of my athletes, especially like those first couple that I was working with. I was like, full transparency, like, you guys are my first athletes. Like, yeah, I I like to think I kind of have an idea of what I'm doing here, but like, if you'll allow me, like, I'm just gonna throw some stuff at you and see how it goes. And if you hate it, like, we'll totally change things. So, and I think that's what coaching is, right? It's just like, I think every year you're doing it, you're learning something new. And like, what didn't work at all for someone might work for someone else. So you don't want to just totally trash something just because it didn't work for one person. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Yeah, I mean, you started off knowing what most coaches have to figure out, uh, because that never changes, you know. Like, I, I've been coaching now for a long time, you know, I've worked with a lot of athletes, and I'm still like that. I have exactly the same posture. It's like, uh, Betsy's sitting over here, um, final shout out of the evening, um, You know, when, when Betsy came to me and said, I want to run across America and would you coach me? I'm like, sure. You know, like, like I've never done that before, but like, I like, I'm enthusiastic about the project and I think together we can figure it out. Like it. Like if you're doing it, if you're doing coaching right, that never changes.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just like a big experiment. Experiment.

Yeah. So have you run across America, or are you in the process of getting ready for that? In the process. Okay, that's exciting.

Super exciting. Yes, more, more to come. Yeah. Yep. Um, yeah, so, but, um, okay, so, uh, that's like an influence, but, um, what, uh, you know, if you were trying to explain to like an athlete who's like, oh, like, well, like, when you, you, you've been, you've been in places like where you're sort of like shopping for a coach, right? And so like if, if now the tables are turned and an athlete is shopping for a coach and like you're, they're considering you and like 2 other people, you know, could you say like how you might be different from a lot of coaches or like, you know, what, what's, what's distinct in your style or approach?

Yeah, that's a good question. I would just say that like, I really do try to get as much feedback as I can and be in touch with my athletes as much as possible. Um, yeah, I, I don't think I do anything probably crazy different from most people out there, but I think like I have tried to be really intentional about how much time I have as a coach, you know, because I am also an athlete full-time as myself. And so because of that, I have kind of limited my roster and I just want to give the people that I'm working with the time they deserve. So that's what I would say is like, if I am working with you, I'm going to make sure that I'm really pouring into you and getting to know you and figuring out what works. Yeah.

Cool. All right. Well, I'm going to give you an opportunity to coach right here and now.

Oh boy. Yeah.

You can't tell. Yep, so Becky, who just walked in the room, she's here from the St. Louis, Missouri area. She's gonna meet Ben tomorrow. They can talk St. Louis. Where was I? Becky, yes, no, you. Hey there. Yeah, so she's here She is kind of newer to running and she classified it. So we got to go for a walk on her first full day here and just like do this. And like I was getting up to speed on her journey and running. And so she's like interested in trails, interested in longer distances, classifies herself as kind of like, I won't say her age, but like she's sort of like, she's seeing who her peers are in the sport and feeling, and she's like, all right, I seem to be at this level and I want to be at this level. And like, that's kind of like, that's where I want to go. That's what excites me. And so what, you know, just sort of like general advice would you have for, you know, a runner who wants to get from here to there?

Sure. Yeah. So I would say— Come on over. Um, I, I think it's awesome, you know, like that we have to have those goals that are like further from like where we're at currently, right? That's like what motivates us, inspires us, but we have to work like where we're at right now. Like you have to stay patient and like just show up every day, every workout, and give your best effort, and the progress isn't probably gonna look you know, super just straight linear to the moon. Like, there's gonna be peaks and valleys, but I think if you're showing up every day and being intentional and knowing like, okay, I gave it all I had today, this was my absolute best, then like more likely than not you're gonna be climbing the mountain. Yeah, and you have to have that self-belief, right? It's like your coach can believe in you all day long, but at the end of the day, it's got to be you who, who knows you can get there. Thank you.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, that was so spot-on.

I'm there right now. I'm like, you know, coming back postpartum, I'm, you know, behind— like, I'm still pretty far away, let's say, from where I was pre-pregnancy, right? And it's like, I know where I want to be, and I want to be even, you know, better than I was pre-pregnancy, but it's like I I gotta work with the here and now and just be patient and take it one day at a time and trust that I'm gonna get there, but I can't put this timeline on it of, you know, I'm gonna be there by this day. It's gonna happen when it happens.

Yeah, that was, I'm trying to think what I would've said. Oh God, why did I invite you? Yeah, this is a, a high wire act here. Um, yeah, so now just like before, because I'm, I'm starting to get ready for ravioli. I don't know about you.

Oh, good.

So, um, yeah, someone else is doing it. Yeah, it's not normally like this. I mean, you brought the baby, so— yeah, yeah, yeah, we brought the dogs. Yeah, it's just— it's a circus. Um, yeah, but, uh, looking ahead, yeah, it really is a circus here today. Yeah, we've had like workers making noise, just like— yeah, it's just like a perfect storm.

Yeah, so you are, um, are you still the reigning US marathon champion, or does it, um, I think technically in Olympic years that's considered the US marathon championship that year, so I think it's Fiona.

You, you were until very, very recently. That's pretty awesome. Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, how do you top that?

Um, I guess Well, like consistently, that's like would be my first goal probably is being consistently competitive at the top of the US level. And yeah, I definitely have aspirations of being competitive on the world stage as well and trying to, you know, finish as high as I can in those world major marathons is the next jump, I would say. But the competition here in the US is obviously amazing and the depth, it just keeps getting better and better. So I think It's getting more and more difficult to consistently find yourself at the top in the US. And there are a few women who are doing that really well. And that's kind of what I'm aspiring to be right now. Yeah.

What— what— so, like, just like taking your own excellent advice, like when you look at that ambition, What gives you— obviously there's some uncertainty surrounding it, right? Who knows? There's no guarantee. Yeah, but that's like, you know, that it's not just because it's not just a hope, it's a goal. And goals are, you know, in sports are almost always based on some kind of belief. It's not a certainty, but like, where does your belief lie? Apply? Like, you know, when you think like, I think I have untapped potential. Yeah. What makes you think that?

That's a great question. I think I've just seen time and time again where I maybe had doubts about something I could do, I have exceeded that. And like, I think initially, like I said, you know, from the time of my freshman year where I thought like breaking 20-minute barrier would be great, and then I ran 18-some minutes something. 49? Yeah. Oh really?

You know, that's what you said.

Oh, I said— I think I said 18:40 something. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.

Um, I'm like, I'm a geek. You're talking to a geek here.

Like, I, I, um, but yeah, so like, yeah, I've just seen time and time again, like, I think I went into college thinking, you know, if I could break 17 minutes in college, that would be amazing. And I walked away running 15:28 my senior year. Um, And so, yeah, I think I've just learned over the years is just to not put those limits on yourself because why? Like, you have no reason to think that you're done or you can't be any faster. Yeah. So, and now I have mom strength.

So, yeah. See, I'm not, I know, I'm not a terrible coach. Sorry. We'll work this out later. But yeah, I mean, that's like, that makes a ton of sense, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's why it's cool. Like, you know, I mean, you know, those experiences, I'm sure you can just like pay forward pretty directly to any athlete. I mean, we just saw it here, right? You know, just like, you know, I am actually drinking my own Kool-Aid here.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Totally. Sweet. Well, Yeah, this has been a lot of fun. Really enjoyed talking to you. Really enjoyed having Nolan's cameo. And yeah, so I guess we're going to wrap up episode whatever of Dream Run Camp Live. I almost reverted to our old name for the show, which will never be said again. Yep. So if you were here, you would be having delicious pesto ravioli, but you can still come for future Dream Run camps. Please do. Thank you and good evening.