Best and Worst Cities to Date RANKED
In this episode Matthew Hussey, Stephen Hussey, Audrey, and David dissect Timeout’s list of the world’s worst cities to date, ranking them from Vienna (10) up to Bilbao (1) and debating the cultural, economic, and logistical reasons each city may hinder dating. They contrast these with a separate list of the best U.S. cities to date, which uses metrics such as single‑person percentage, divorce rates, rent affordability, and nightlife availability. The conversation then shifts to broader dating challenges: the "investment gap" that stalls commitment, practical tactics like micro‑interactions, positioning, and eye contact to increase approachability, and how city size and density affect dating effort. They also explore age‑gap concerns, gendered money expectations, and listener emails that highlight differing perspectives on financial values in relationships. A brief promotional plug for Cozy Earth appears, followed by a playful “Steve Sleeves” game where the hosts match cities to stereotypical dating scenarios. The episode blends data‑driven analysis, personal anecdotes, coaching advice, and listener engagement to give listeners a nuanced view of how geography, culture, and personal behavior shape modern dating.
Chapters
Foreign.
You have the data from timeout on the worst cities in the world to date.
That's true, I do.
Take us through them.
Okay, you. Starting with number one, Are they in.
Order of how bad they are or are they just. These are 10. Horrible.
They're in order of how bad they are.
Okay, so number one's the worst. Let's start with number 10, then.
Number 10, Vienna. Number nine.
Wait, you have any comment on Vienna?
I haven't been to Vienna. It's very small, I think, isn't it? Small city.
I can't say I've ever been or know much about dating in Vienna. Do we have anyone out there dating in Vienna who can verify that Vienna is a horrible city? Today in email as podcastthewhassey.com Number 9, Sydney, Australia. That surprises me.
Does surprise me a bit.
That surprises me because it's a very outdoor culture.
So is LA, and LA's horrible today in.
Well, there's a theme that comes up. We can talk about that. A lot of big cities seem to be low ranked, so Number. Joint seven.
I'm surprised at Sydney, though. I. I feel like Sydney is a good place to date, especially. Well, maybe as if you're a young person, Sydney's a good place to date. Like 20s. You go out to the beach, get out the bod. You know, maybe that's the vibe. Maybe, maybe if you're in your like 30s, 40s, 50s in Sydney, maybe it starts to get more difficult.
Joint number seven is London and Brisbane, Australia. Again, London surprises me because I always found that a great city to date in. And I would always tell people, oh, London's amazing because people come from all over the world. People, great mix of people. Dents, like there's just a. You know, you can get any kind of person in London.
Maybe it's the rain.
Bad weather makes you.
Makes you not want to go out.
Expensive. Maybe.
There's a big density of people in. In London and there are lots of different kinds of people. Audrey, you lived in London the longest. How was it to date?
I. I'm the same as you. I enjoyed dating.
And London. Oh, for God's sakes.
Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I dated before you.
I think. Well, I thought I rate London highly. Okay. Joint 5, Los Angeles and New York City.
I can't believe Los Angeles. Oh, wait, Los Angeles is worse than London.
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
But it's just right behind it.
But LA and New York join. I feel like New York's better than la.
Yeah, I would totally agree with that.
New York's so much easier. You go out, you, you couldn't. You could have three dates in one night in New York.
That's the problem. There we go. There we have it.
They're different problems.
Different problems. LA is bad for different reasons.
LA is hard because you've got very high competition, especially in looks and you've got. Also you've got a lot of famous people. It's very spread out, kind of a lot of similar people all in a similar industry. So I think a lot of people here find dating harder than a lot of cities. So that makes sense. I am surprised.
New York, there's a lot of. It's a very monotone convers a lot of people in LA when it folk. When it's in the bubble of the entertainment industry. But people forget how big LA is. LA is not just entertainment people. It's massive. And there are many different people doing many different kinds of jobs.
No, it is. But people stay indoors a lot in la. They do things around there.
Yeah, I think, I think that's the hard part is it's hard to get people to do anything in la.
It's also the values of a city. Right. Like New York is like a hustler city. People move there, they. They have to sink or swim and they're just incredibly driven and they hustle and they just, they're like trying to get somewhere and finding love and settling down might not actually be top priority for a lot of people. So then it feels a bit more kind of casual and transient and all the rest of it, Louisiana to your point, people would say the same about people. Well, I was going to say with la, I think the values of la a lot of. For, for not, not everybody. There's again, so many different kinds of people in la, but there is definitely a currency around fame and status which then means that like, you have to navigate that kind of like the values of the city in some pockets of the city, which can make it feel. If you fall prey to, you know, if you go on a date with someone that's a bit like that, it could make you feel inadequate and not good enough.
Yeah, maybe. I, Yeah, I, I think it's still say that.
I've never dated in la, so I don't.
They still. There's still like a huge hustle culture in la because a lot of people gave up a lot to be in la.
True.
Like they, they moved across the country, they have a dream that they're pursuing and it, they've. They've made so many sacrifices to be there that it's kind of like nothing can get in the way of that because that's my entire reason for being in this place. And then you have those people who grew up here and, you know, I, I'm not best placed to talk about why that's hard, but I do think the sprawling nature of the city just makes the activation energy for everybody a hire to just do anything to leave your house. And also, you're always like, the, the advantage of somewhere like New York is that someone can say, you could be already out. And someone in New York says, come meet us over in this bar. And you're like, sure, because it's just a quick cab ride or.
Yeah, exactly.
In la, when you're out and someone says we're out over here, you're like, well, that's a 40 minute drive.
That's never happened. Once you've committed, you're in.
Yeah. Like, yeah.
Actually, a lot of women complain about New York because I believe New York is quite female heavy on the numbers side. So I think maybe for single New York helps. Number four, Marseille, France. I have no clue what's going on in Marseille, France, and it's number four.
On the list, but Marseille's the fourth worst city to date in the world.
Yeah, I, yeah, I, I, I've been there once. Don't look at me. I don't know why it's the worst day. It's a little bit.
We're looking at you as the closest thing to France we have.
Yeah.
No, okay.
No, I don't know.
I'm sorry. For everyone in Marseille who's going through number two.
Number three, Hong Kong. Don't know what's going on. Hong Kong. I don't know. A lot of expats there. Maybe it's just super busy work culture. Not sure. Hong Kong's quite a datey culture, I think, especially like all the expats there. Probably a lot of dating and transient stuff. So I think maybe that's harder.
Yeah, interesting.
Number two, Tokyo, Japan.
That tracks.
Yeah, yeah.
You think it's cultural?
I mean, you hear, you know, all the time from, you know, when it comes to Japanese culture, the difficulty people have in meeting each other.
Yeah.
You know, getting to know each other. The, you know, that it's not cultural norm to, I mean, I think it's becoming less culturally normal everywhere for people to just stroll over and talk to each other.
Yeah.
So I don't think, like, I think that that's happening in America, in England, In Europe, like, it's the dating apps and addiction to our phones and people feeling. I think, you know, over the last few years, men have been more concerned about looking creepy when they talk to somebody. I think people in general have had their social skills eroded. And so the idea of, like, I'm gonna just walk over and talk to someone is. Is. It's not. Not a thing, but it's less of a thing than it was. Japan is kind of, as I understand it, leading the pack, and has been leading the pack for a long time in, yes. Finding it strange to just walk over to someone and start a conversation.
The other thing as well, which I think is really important to mention, is, you know, Japan is a very. It's quite a traditional country. And I think there's sort of. With that comes maybe traditional values around gender roles and things like that. And so as women, and we see this in other pockets of the world, but I definitely think this is true in Japan. And anecdotally, from speaking to people, this seems to be true as women, you know, rise up in the ranks, get jobs, get kind of independence in that way. They sort of. They look at relationships as almost. The expectation is that they then would become almost a housewife to a man.
Right.
And they don't necessarily want that because they feel like they've got their independence. Why would they settle for that? And that kind of traditional values ends up creating friction between the two genders. And I think I can understand that, you know, women feel that way as well.
Yeah.
And then it's obviously hard for men because they're maybe looking for something that then women are not necessarily able to give them in this moment in time.
It's crazy because Tokyo, you can have probably the most fun dates because there's so much to do that isn't just going out for drinks.
You just go for three dinners and then finish off with McDonald's and then karaoke.
And number one, which. Number one, which is just. I have no idea about, is Bilbao in Spain.
That's number one. Does Bilbao have, like, some of the best restaurants in the world, or am I thinking of somewhere else?
I'm not sure if it's that place, but I've been to several Spanish cities. I've never been to Bilbao. I can't be that big. So I don't know why locals in Bilbao are really saying the dating scene.
And it feels like if you've. If you're putting Bilbao in that list, it feels like there should be plenty of other small cities. So. Interesting. Well, I, I, we are not qualified to talk about many of these cities, even the ones we are weighing in on. We would love for you to tell us what you, you know, if you're in one of these cities, is it as hard as Timeout is suggesting in this questionable list that they've put together? Let us know podcastthewhussey.com Now, David, you have found what are allegedly a couple of the best cities to date in.
Yeah, I'm actually curious, what did it say the metric was for measuring?
It was just according to locals.
According to locals.
No, it was love, life satisfaction, according to locals. Okay, so it was a certain percentage of people who felt satisfied in their lives.
Yeah.
Okay. I'm actually, actually in all this list. I'm really surprised San Francisco didn't come up because I always hear from women who say, yeah, it's difficult in San Francisco. So I'm actually very surprised that didn't come up.
Well, so this is a somewhat conflicting list. And, and albeit the metric for this is oddly, I, I have two different lists. The metric for this is single percentage, but also weirdly separated out is percentage of divorced people, which I feel like.
Like they're saying that's a good thing.
If there's lots of, if there's lots of divorced people.
Because what, people then were married at some point?
No, they're saying because people are available. Right, yeah.
Wouldn't that also just be single?
Yeah, yeah.
So it's making a distinction between single.
So let's take this list with a grain of salt. But the bottom of the top is Berlin, Germany, also.
It's a bit of a poison chalice.
Yes.
Isn't it like to, we, we, we have the most people available, but we all, More people get divorced here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is it.
So you find love and then you'll lose it.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's true. Berlin, Germany, at the bottom. San Francisco is next above that because there are so many single people. Chicago, Barcelona, Stockholm, Sweden.
Chicago makes sense to me for some reason.
Yeah.
I feel like it's like a slightly less, you know, intense New York and I. And it's sort of, that maybe is a bit more like Midwest vibes. People willing to actually commit. Yeah. Unlike New York.
A couple of. We were on holiday recently. We met a couple who were from Chicago and they were really sweet and they were, they'd got married and they were like 26.
Yeah, Chicago makes sense. So cool.
62 people single, apparently.
So.
But I actually think that I have a more interesting list which, but it's only in the US which rates.
Wait, did you do the top ones?
What were the other top.
The top. The top top of that list was Gothberg, Sweden at the third most.
That was the third Gothenburg to be single.
Yeah, Gothenburg, Sweden. 58% people single there, 55% divorced. Then London with 57% people single.
That's confusing.
Different list.
It's because.
It's because it's, it's. It's a different metric on different metric.
It's just saying how many people there are for you today.
Yeah.
Okay.
But it's like there's so many available.
People because wants to commit Miami's number one.
Yeah, there's a lot of single people in Miami.
Yeah, that's that I do hear a lot of complaints.
That's also a tough dating market in different ways because it's probably less committal.
So that's why I think the better one is the top cities. This, this other list which bounced it off of three factors. One was single availability, cost of rent and like, like their placement on national nightlife ranking, which I think is a good three.
But if you're 50 and looking for love, do you care about like nightlife in that way?
I mean part of nightlife was like good restaurants, good places to socialize. But yeah, it's, it's not all, all like night, night life. It's like good social opportunities.
Okay.
There I'll just give nightclubs. I'll give you the top. I'll give you the top three. And it's only in the U.S. salt Lake City, Utah is third place city, Utah. Medium bedroom rent is 1200 and people can tell. Tell if this is if that's their experience. But 1200 is a one bedroom rent and it's top 10 in entertainment in terms of like being able to go out and you know, infrastructure for being able to go out. Number two is Knoxville, Tennessee.
Okay.
And then number one is St. Louis, Missouri.
Wow.
And then they also have the worst cities, which three of them are in California, which is in the Bay Area, which is where I'm from. Henderson, San Jose, Fresno and Bakersfield.
Do you know what? This just when the more I listen to these lists, the more I'm just like there is no. We can scrap the idea that there is this perfect place to go and date. Well, it just doesn't exist.
There are ones that come up quite frequently. They seem to be like mid tier sized cities. But I also think that that comes with you know, some people like that in Sweden. Like, but they're but they're also very small. And your choices, actually, you don't. Yeah, I don't know. I think you get disadvantages because it limits your choices as well.
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You know something that I think we are all quite guilty of is when we're in our 20s, we'll be like, dating in your 20s is the worst because nobody is ready for a relationship or everybody is whatever. Then when you're in your 30s, you're like, dating in your 30s is the worst because everybody is pairing off and there's no one left, and you know, I'm gonna be on my own. When you're lit in your 40s, it's like everybody in their 40s who's still single is either damaged or coming out of a marriage and doesn't want a relationship. Getting in your 40s is the worst anyway. You've got that, like, every single stage of dating and every single stage of life. And I think that people do the same thing with where they live, right? Where there are objectively worse and better Places and worse and better ages to date. I think, like, you're more likely to find someone more quickly if you're intentionally looking at 28 years old than 60 years old. Just. But even by default of having more, more people available to you. Same with, like, if you're going on three dates a week versus one day every three months, you're more likely to find someone to be with. But I do think that we're kind of guilty of almost being like, blaming our circumstances and always saying that that's the worst thing. I don't know if you guys agree with that. Like, like people will do that with their cities.
It's kind of the easiest place to go when we're frustrated, and it was one of the easy places to go when we're frustrated. I, I look, it certainly helps to be around a density of people. Like, that much is true. And I'm tempted to say that having a density. Density of people around you is generally better than being in a place where there's very few people around.
Being in a tiny place is harder.
Yeah.
Do you think that's true though, if you're somewhere like LA or New York where it feels like no one really is intentionally dating?
There's no city that exists on earth where people are not feeling the pull towards meeting a partner everywhere. There are people who go, you know what would make life a little easier in this city where I'm trying relentlessly to make it a person, a loving partner to do this with. And the generalization that just like everyone is so blissfully happy chasing their careers that they have no interest in finding a partner, I think is. It just doesn't, it doesn't take. Like, that's not a reasonable analysis of human behavior. Yes. When people are in a mode where they're pursuing aggressively a career, their career often comes first. But not everyone is like that. And many people's values shift as they meet someone they really like. Yes, it's true that when there's a greater density of people, you're. You're up against more competition. You are. So you have to stand out. You have to be better. Like, that's just true. But that doesn't have to be. You don't have to put that in your mind as something unobtainable or unattainable. It can be something that you can. You do by just making the best of yourself. And I do. I think we have to check ourselves in these environments because we are all. We're also the ones who are often so choosy based on the idea that there's always going to be another person, that we don't actually invest enough time and energy in somebody to see how great they could be. We don't go on that second date or have that extra conversation to actually get to know someone, so we can end up becoming that vibe ourselves. I also think that we're like, cities are lonely places for a lot of people, and if you don't, if you're not proactive about meeting people in general, you can really get lost in a city. And it's a particular kind of loneliness when you're in a place where it feels like everyone else is hanging out, doing cool things. You're walking home, people are spilling out of bars and restaurants and, you know, laughing together on the street, holding a cocktail and doing that. And you're like, I'm, I don't have that. I'm going home. I don't have my people. I've never met my people here. I don't have a person. Cities can make you feel incredibly lonely in that way.
That's true.
And, and you kind of get FOMO all the time for what you could be doing or an experience you think you should be having, but you're not having that experience. So you feel, you feel both on the, you feel like you're inside a city, but on the outside of the experience. And I, I really believe it takes a huge amount of courage and bravery to meet people in a city. You have to engineer interactions. And for some of us, that means being willing to make the approach more. You know, I, I, I was always, like, I was often scared to make the approach. I was always a bit scared to make the approach. To be honest, I was never, like, so unstoppably confident that I didn't feel nerves when I went over to approach somebody. And sometimes it would go well and sometimes it wouldn't. Stephen, you've been with me on both occasions. True times where it's gone well and times where nothing, you know, it didn't. And in those moments, you feel stupid and you feel a bit embarrassed and you're like, like, but you, you did the thing. And I think that we do have to, we have to keep our courage in creating these moments with other people, especially if you don't want to be sitting in a city addicted to dating apps and, you know, like, I can't get off these things because I just don't know how to meet anyone in, in real life anymore. And also, it's not, it's not just about approaching it's about approachability. Like this is one of the key things that so many people miss is they're so busy thinking about how do I go over and talk to someone that they don't think about how they make themselves more approachable. Now, how do you position yourself in a room? Do you position yourself facing the wall or standing at the bar? Facing inwards towards the bar. Or do you position yourself in a way where it would be easy for someone to come over and talk to you?
Are you looking at someone as well?
Are you making enough eye contact? Absolutely. Are you creating micro interactions? I think a lot about the idea of micro interactions. I'm very, very big on this. Every, every, you know, it's like we think in terms of I'm either talking to someone or I'm not talking to someone. And it feels like there's this enormous gulf between those two things. But micro interactions is like, if I sliced this, what are the like 100 slices in between that that make it more likely that something happens that we tumble into to a conversation? It might be eye contact, it might be how I position myself. It might be asking someone what they're drinking because it looks good. It might be cheers, you know, cheersing someone like who happens to be standing next to you at the bar and just say cheers. You know, these little tiny moments. The moment I like your bag, I like your jacket, I really like those shoes. Like these little things that signal to someone all the time, like, hey, I'm a person who's open to speaking to people. I'm a person who's warm. I'm not a person who's going to bite your head off for talking to me. These. We should focus far less on the big moves that we could because walking across the room to talk to someone is a big move. Right? But we should, instead of obsessing over those all the time and never doing anything, we should be thinking, what are the micro interactions that I can have with a person that are very risk free, they're very low stakes, but they have a weird way of, of, you know, growing into something more if I do them. Because you're signaling to the world.
And also I think like, if you're especially in a bar environment or you know, in, in a kind of like social environment in that way, if you walk in and you talk to everybody and you know, before you even identify, do I like anyone? Has anybody walked in that I think is attractive? Any of that. If you walk in and you talk to lots of people and you make lots of Touch points with people. You kind of warm yourself up so that then if somebody is attractive and you know you do find somebody attractive, then you are able to talk to them more comfortably. And you haven't kind of been in your shell the whole night. And suddenly it's like a massive leap to talk to this person.
Because now it's not a strategy, it's a way of being.
Yes, exactly.
And then that changes it. So I, I, like. I think that's the. The biggest advice I would give to people in. In big cities is that you have to. You have to get like your pride is your enemy in a lot of ways. Especially, by the way, the longer you've been in the city, this is something that you'll notice. The longer we're in a city, the more we sort of like, concretize and we find our couple of people and we find our little routines. You know, now it's. When you first walk into a coffee shop, having never been there, it's not embarrassing to introduce yourself to the barista, to ask someone's name, to say hi to the person next to you and ask, where else is good around here? None of those things feel weird when it's your first time in a neighborhood in that coffee shop or when you're a tourist. But when you've been to that coffee shop a hundred times, all of a sudden it's like, I don't want to embarrass myself in my home. Like, this is my. This is my coffee shop. I don't want to do anything embarrassing, you know, so. And that happens in a city. It's like all of a sudden, we become too cold to be vulnerable. The tourists don't do that. Why do tourists have the best time? Because tourists, they go, you know, especially young tourists, they go and stay in a hostel and they talk to everybody because they're like, I'm only here for three days. I'm having fun. Yeah, there's no.
I'm not.
I'm not settling for three days in this place that I'm probably never coming back to and not having fun. I've paid my money. I. I am here. I've traveled the distance. I need to have an adventure here. So then we start talking to people, and guess what? We engineer an adventure. We engineer a new friend for three days, we engineer a romance. And then we're like, I hadn't. I haven't found a partner in five years back home, and all of a sudden I found someone on holiday. Why is that? Is because you adopted A holiday Persona when you were on vacation.
But you know what? Yes. You're so, so right. I agree with all of that, and that's so true. But it's so. It's easier to do it when you are transient somewhere because I think also you don't. You have the, the excuse and the kind of like, you know, the, the story to hide behind of like, I'm only Hintam for 3 days, therefore I don't look desperate for speaking to you. I'm just speaking to everybody. Whereas if you live here, it's like, I live here and I'm speaking to you, therefore you must think I like you, which instantly makes you feel more nervous.
It's only something in our head.
I know what's the.
Like, here's, Here's a really interesting thing. Watch the owner of a restaurant. When they're walking around a restaurant, no one knows they're the owner, right? In a local restaurant, who the hell knows that that guy over there owns the place? No one. But that person walks over and says, how's your night? And you're like, good, thanks. And you start talking to them, right? For all you know, you're talking to a complete stranger.
Oh, my God, they fancy me.
But they, but this person walks over like they own the place and asks you, how's your evening going? Are you having a nice time? And. And they didn't say, hi, I own the place. They just started talking to you like they owned the place. It. It's a story. You don't. You. You can have that story in your head that I'm going to be someone who starts making the most of my city again. I'm going to treat this like I'm new in town.
Okay? Advice, because I know we have to move on. Advice for people who live in a.
Small city, acknowledge that you're not going to have as many options. But you. You're probably not making the most of the options that are in your town or your city. Like, are you really being brave and courageous in talking to people when you go places? Whether it's your coffee shop, whether it's the local bookshop, whether it's, you know, joining clubs and being like, you don't know everyone. And yes, it's harder, but that only speaks to the fact that you have to be more proactive. You're not going to bump into people on every street corner. So you're gonna have to engineer social groups, you're gonna have to engineer community.
And you're gonna have to build your tribe more consciously of people who like what you like and value what you value because you're just not going to have as many. So you're gonna have to build out that tribe.
I think that's so true. And I think, I think as well set your on dating app, set your preferences and your radius to a wider radius. And even if you can catch a big city that's like an hour away from your city, so long as you're comfortable commuting, you know, and you're not able to. Not able to leave where you live, definitely. That's also a hack.
Yeah. Sacrifice convenience for options. You, you have to be willing to do that. If you're in New York, you only need to go a square mile. If you live, you know, upstate in a place where there's just a lot less people, then you might have to set it so that you include a lot more people and be willing to drive an hour for a day. It's not, it's not the end of the world and you are giving yourself more options.
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Okay, I want to move on. We can talk more about this later. If there's anything you want us to touch on more podcastthussey.com let us know. We an email in from someone. In fact two different people who had a Couple of thoughts on the episode that we did on money in relationships. What was that episode called?
David it's what's behind the Male Fear that Women Only Care about Money.
All right, so this was the the episode what's behind the Male Fear that Women Only Care about Money? Stephen, why don't you read that email that you saw?
Yeah, so we had an excellent email from Paige, which I thought was so thoughtful and interesting and she said hi Matthew and team. Long time listener, first time writing in I wanted to respond to recent pods bringing up the idea of gender dynamics in particular having to do with money. I'm a bit upset to hear this theme repeated over several podcasts as it feels like it's validating the rhetoric of the far right manosphere. If I may, I'd like to share my Observations as a 37 year old female who is single and living in Texas. My single friends and I are all homeowners and are financially independent. We invest, we give charitably, we take care of our homes and are generous with our loved ones. We none of us need a man who earns more than us or particularly care how much a man earns. So our money concerns are different. We're looking for equals with similar values. However, we often encounter men who don't know how to cook and spend a lot on eating out. She calls them Chipotle boys. There's an article on it. They don't invest as well as we do. Brackets. Women are better investors. There's another article on that. I'm guessing men take more, maybe crazy risks in investing. The women do. They're not as generous in charitable giving as we are, spend way more on hobbies and frivolous spending, and are flirting with a sports betting addiction. And she says links to all of these we are scared of ending up with men who don't contribute domestically despite how much or how little they earn. Women who earn more still do more at the home. Women take on the mental load for the home and anecdotally, women seek out therapy more. I know there is so much more nuance to add to this conversation. Questions of pay parity, societal expectations, generation differences, and more. But for what it's worth, I've noticed my friends and I no longer say we're looking for a boyfriend or a husband, but rather a partner. I think the change in vocabulary is reflecting what we and the majority of women want. I hope this is helpful and I'd love to hear a more balanced side of this conversation from the podcast in the future. Thanks, Paige.
It's a really great email. I love that email. And Paige, I I hope we it sounds like we have created the impression that we're reinforcing those stereotypes that exist in the manosphere. But the truth is, I think we always try to go out of our way to say the opposite, that these are the things that people constantly assert are important to women and that this just doesn't resonate empirically with women. We know women, we coach. Um, of course there are, there are some that fit the stereotype, just as there are some men that fit the stereotype. But yeah, I certainly one thing that we've prided ourselves on over the years is not just reinforcing gender stereo stereotypes about gender differences. And you know, certainly would be sad to to think we have failed in that. I I agree with what you've said, the idea of finding a partner. In fact, there was another email that came in from Dana on the same episode who said hi team. Really enjoyed your latest podcast. Great to see you diving into complex topics on the money debate. I agree that financial goals and lifestyle expectations play a huge role in dating and maybe unfortunately in how people filter or choose potential partners. You discussed how disparities in income or wealth can cause tension, but I think it's worth pointing out that even couples with comparable means, and this page is where Dana, I think would really agree with your point, often run into serious issues if their financial values or goals don't align. I've seen relationships where both partners earn similar salaries, but one wants to aggressively save for a home while the other prioritizes travel or eating out. Or one wants to stay in a high cost city while the other would rather relocate to save. Those mismatches in priorities can create just as much strain as income gaps, if not more. Thanks for everything, Dana. That is a wonderful, wonderful point because that is one of the things that, you know, people miss that one of the ways we show our values is through how we spend our money, through the lifestyle that we aspire to. What, what do we prioritize in life.
And or how we waste money or.
How we waste money or whether we even see that as waste versus the other person who does. You know, and the hyper focus on income disparity or wealth disparity actually does take away from focus on that idea that we might just have different values around money in general and that can be just as much a source of incompatibility as having very different amounts of money. And of course if we have similar values around money, but we have big differences when it Comes to how much money we have, our values around money being the same might actually be the thing that makes us compatible in spite of those differences.
Yeah.
So I'm really, I don't want to take too much time adding to these points, but for Dana and Paige, thank you for highlighting that because I think it's really, really important. And I hope that for men listening, especially anyone who has the insecurity that, you know, I'm going to be overlooked because I don't earn enough, you know, I'm not going to be as worthy, I'm not going to be seen as attractive, that actually there are many women out there who are looking for someone with the same values when it comes to money and compatibility in that area. And that that's actually more important than having someone who earns the same or more than they do, I think so. Those are really wonderful points and very well made. We have a love lifeline here. Who is it today, David?
We have got Janelle.
Janelle.
Hi all. I'm hoping to bounce off a question from you guys, get your opinions, all three of you, if you could. I am wondering about dating at 53. And it's not so much dating at 53. I'm proud of my age. I don't have a problem with my age. It's just men do. It seems like men, men do not necessarily. Like when we talk or whatever, I seem to get interest, what have you. But then I find out that they have or are seeing a woman that's younger than my daughter. Do you know what I mean? I just have such a problem with that. So, I mean, none of them have been. Everything's been a no go. But for me, that's a major red flag. Is somebody who even dated at one time, somebody in their 20s and they're almost 50 or 50, and I just have an issue with that and it makes me. I think it's gross. But I'm just wondering how you guys feel about that. I mean, like, am I being too judgmental? Am I throwing up the red flag too soon? I'm just kind of trying to get your opinion about that and maybe how men think about this or even another woman's opinion. I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
Well, great question.
Yeah, interesting. I. It's so interesting, Janelle. I actually, I completely understand the instinct to feel that way and I am in agreement with you to an extent. I think that there's a big difference here that we need to look at, which is, is the person in question, does. Do they have a Pattern of dating somebody who's like 10, 20, 30 years younger than them. Because if it's a pattern, then, yeah, it's kind of creepy. Like, I, I think I kind of agree with that, and that's just my opinion. But I do think it's a little bit strange. Like, why are you not going for women on your level? You know, even from a maturity standpoint, Like, I think, I think it's just a strange thing to gravitate only towards that. But if somebody, you know, dated one or maybe two with like a major age gap, and they also, you know, within their kind of past relationships, there's people who are more age appropriate. I think that's less of an issue because I think when you're dating, you're trying different things. And, you know, it might be that that was just more of a sexual and more of an attraction based relationship where, or, you know, even something where I think a lot of older men, and you guys can maybe speak to this, but they sometimes, obviously older men can feel, they feel their age kind of weighing heavily on them. And actually dating a younger woman makes them feel younger, which makes them feel good about themselves, which is also where the kind of the, the draw of that comes in, which, to be fair.
We hear from women too, who are in their 50s and are like, I'm really enjoying dating younger men.
Exactly.
I suppose the question I would put to you, Audrey, is do you think Janelle has a point when she talks about this size of the age gap? So, you know, if she's like, I just really find it hard to respect someone and not find it gross when it's literally someone in their 20s and they're in their 50s. Do you think that there's a point to be made about that? As opposed to he's in his 50s and he's, you know, the last person he dated was 35. Or do you think that that's. Your argument still applies?
I think for me, my argument still applies. I agree with you. So I, I really want to say that one more time. I really agree with you and I understand the being grossed out by it thing. I'm. I would feel the same way. But I don't think we should write people off just because of one person they dated. I think if people were looking to look at any of our past and see maybe one or two of our exes, they'd be like, oh, dear God, how could you have ever been attracted to this person? They're awful. You know, and I think that we're all guilty of having dated people that are not the best people for us in our lives. And I think that. I think that we have to give each other grace. So for me, it wouldn't necessarily be like this giant red flag and like, no go. But obviously, if it's in any way a pattern or if they talk about it in a way where they're not like, yeah, I actually, this is a little bit, like, embarrassing, but I actually, like, I don't know, came out of my divorce and ended up in this kind of semi relationship with this woman, but she was like, you know, 28 or whatever, and obviously it didn't last because la la, then that's a different thing. Whereas if they're like, yeah, my ex was 28, and there's nothing wrong with that, like, I don't think writing people off for one thing is necessarily the. The way to go, but I do think it's something to look out for and see if that. It kind of builds a pattern and a kind of a profile of that person. Does that make sense?
It makes total sense. And I think that idea of pattern being the thing to look for is really, really important. I think that everyone is capable of falling for someone who's in a very different age group. And I, I really believe how they speak about that is important. And I don't think that they have to share it as an embarrassing fact necessarily, but certainly how they speak about why maybe that didn't work out is relevant information. You know, if someone says, if someone's 53 and they dated someone in their 20s and they were like, look, I, you know, I got, I was attracted to this person. It, you know, it was really fun. We had a great connection. But ultimately, you know, it was something that really made me realize, you know, you, you don't, you know, when you're with someone and you've learned a lot of life lessons, they haven't, and you're in a very different place in your life, it just, you know, at a certain point you're not going to have that level of, you know, deep compatibility that you have with someone who you feel like really understands you. And that's something that's, you know, that relationship or, you know, was albeit and, you know, enjoyable experience. And like, it just made me realize it's really important for me to have someone that I feel truly compatible with in every way.
It's also really important that they haven't got a child that's around the same age as the person they dated. I actually agree with Janelle. If like you date a person and then like they've gone out with someone who's like, you know, same age or a couple of years older, younger, as their kid. That would freak me out because it'd be like, why would you be attracted to someone who's the same age as your child?
Which is, which is why I kind.
Of, but again, we're talking about like the rarities here, right? There's not a lot of 50 year old men.
And even as I'm saying it, I'm like, that's a really big age gap.
And I know someone who's married to, I think she's 28 and her partner's in his 50s and I'm married, he hasn't got kids.
I, yeah, listen, every individual has to decide what it is they value. And when someone is dating someone who is from a very different generation, they're, in a way, you are making a certain statement about what you value. Okay, maybe you're dating the wisest 28 year old in the world, but probably not, you know, and it's I, when you date younger people, there is a sense of like, people can seem like they're an old head on young shoulders, but in reality, a lot of that is kind of a, an act. A lot of that is a kind of superficial maturity. It's not the deep kind of maturity that comes from having lived and been through things and, you know, you've not got someone who understands your references, who understands what it's like to get punched in the face in your 30s and 40s and like it. So it, I don't know. I, I, I, I agree with you, I really agree. I, I agree with you and Janelle that it's, I think it's okay to find it off putting. I think it's okay to decide this person's probably not for me because if they're dating someone that much younger, we don't have the same values in terms of what we value in a relationship. But I do think it's entirely possible that people make these sort of human, very human diversions that, yeah, lead them back to a place where they become very acutely aware of what's important to them.
And some people, men and women do get divorced and they swing that pendulum for a moment because they're like, I want to try dating like, you know.
A younger person, novelty or whatever. And it's like, I, I don't think we, I think we have to be careful to condemn people's character or their, you know, I just label them with an identity because of a relationship they've had. Within reason, obviously. But I. I do think that you have to pay attention to the way they speak about what they value. Now. What did it teach them? Did it teach them anything? Or, you know, is it just like, clearly that's just a thing and they thought it was awesome and they do it again in a heartbeat and like that.
Those are the things matter.
Those are the parts I would listen to. How has someone been shaped by their experiences is as important, maybe more important than what their experiences actually are or have been. So hopefully that helps. Janelle, let us know. Feel free to write back and let us know if that shed any light on this subject for you. And thank you for. For leaving your question. I know a lot of people will have benefited from it. If you want to leave us your question podcast, dot leave us a voice note around 30 seconds. Not too long or we won't be able to play it. But we love hearing from you and we love answering your questions in real time. We never listen to them before the show. The show is always. David has listened to them. But whenever we hear them, it's the first time we've heard them. So it's really fun to answer those questions on the fly. It is that time again, Stevens. No, it doesn't work if I say Stevens Sleeves. Don't be bereaved.
You know that we can leave without another episode of Steve Sleeves.
It's five o'. Clock. Welcome to Steve Sleeves. So today we are going to play Love Maps.
Okay.
We talked about cities where you date. I want to give you a few different. You're going to give me the city, and I'm going to give you the phrase, like the city you would go to for blank. And I want you guys to give me the answer.
So we give you the city.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay. The city you'd go to after a breakup.
Well, if you watch any TV shows on Netflix right now, it's always Paris. You go after a breakup, it's always Paris.
So you go.
If you have a hard breakup, you get yourself an outfit and you just move to Paris.
Pop a little beret on.
Yeah. And learn. And take. And take about 60 days to speak fluent French.
We. I was watching the Summer I Turned Pretty season three.
It's unreal how quickly she's fluent. It makes no sense.
Matt was like, oh, this show sucks. Why are you watching this? And then within, like half an episode, he was like, next to me just watching it.
She's been there, stayed. She's been There, five minutes, and she's standing on a roof and she's like, this is my town. And she's. She speaks every word in France.
Maybe she did do a lingo.
Do you walk pensively around the Champs de Lys?
Yeah. Do you go, so, yeah, you have a little bag.
I'm only correcting you, by the way, because in the previous episode, and I.
Like to be good at my pronouns.
But in a previous episode, I didn't know what a word was, or I pronounced it wrong or something, and people were like, are you even French?
That's very French.
You were very mad at me because I didn't remember a word. I left France when I was nine, guys.
So you speak fluent French?
I do, but I don't remember every word because I left France when I was nine.
Now that's. That's the voice of someone who actually speaks a language. Humility.
Like belly from.
From the summer I turn pretty. Anyway.
Okay.
I think so you wander along the Seine being philosophical.
Baguette in your bag.
Okay.
You know, going on your way to meet your new found European friends.
Okay.
French boyfriend.
The city where you'd go to fall for the wrong person.
Paris. No, I.
Well, you go for a bit of danger.
Anyone we say, though, everyone's gonna get offended.
I just meant you're gonna go for a bit of a. Like. I'm just gonna, like Vegas, I guess.
Like Vegas, where you go for the. Wrong.
Vegas.
Vegas or Miami.
Who's coming?
Miami's a party city.
Miami might be where you go for, like, a fling. Yeah.
What's the. What's the city that people go to for, like, drug tourism?
Amsterdam.
You can. There's, like, weed cafes. Oh, did you say Amsterdam? Yeah. I feel like Amsterdam could be.
Amsterdam's a fun city.
Yeah.
You go for a good time in.
Yeah.
All right. Well, there you go.
Where you go to meet someone completely different from your usual type.
Berlin, probably.
All right. Okay. Yeah, probably kind of a bit more grungy, indie type, that sort of thing.
Get your bondage rebound.
Hello.
I think Berlin is all about, like.
All about Bond.
Everyone in Berlin.
The club scene in Berlin is. Has a lot of, like, kind of, you know what?
If you're already into bondage, then that's.
If you're already into bondage, then they don't. To Sedona Las Veas. Yeah, Just find a. Find a nice wine enthusiast. This is good, Steve Sleeves. I like it strong. He's taking us in all sorts of directions.
Keep it serious. Keep it serious. You're Formal.
The city you go to, the city you'd go to for a fantasy meet cute. Like, what's a fantasy?
No, you can't have Paris. Paris can't have all of them. Milan, Paris, a fantasy meet cute. Yeah, but you can't have Paris again. You can't send Paris people to Paris for every occasion.
I think you could do, like, Washington. Like, somewhere that rains.
Like Washington State. Yeah, Like.
Like Seattle.
Seattle. It's rainy. You're coming. You're steaming a little bit.
Yeah.
I don't know why. There's steam.
Yeah.
It's so hot, right?
Yeah, it's a hot rain in a coffee shop. She's like, you're steaming and you're like, I don't know what's happening.
So humid outside. I'm sorry. Miami.
No more to me, feels like. Like an Asian city. You could get into a cozy place. You come out from Moraine. It's quite tropical outside, and it's like you meet someone, but then you don't.
Speak the same language.
They might speak English.
Well, you only need to be there for five minutes.
You go to Japan for two weeks, you learn fluent Japanese, and then you stand outside the. The closest izakaya.
I actually, one of those lists said Beijing and Mumbai were great cities to date. I have no idea about. But if anyone from Beijing and Mumbai is listening, tell us why they're great to date in, I'd like to hear. Well, everyone, thanks for playing. Steve Sleeves.
Well, thanks for listening, everyone. It's been another wonderful time with all of you, and we can't wait to do it all again with you in the next episode of Love Life. Thank you, Audrey. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, David. Thank you, Harrison.
Thanks, everybody.
Thanks, everyone.
Bye.
