If You Hear This from Your Long-Distance Relationship... RUN!

Foreign.

How do you know when a long distance relationship is viable and therefore worth your energy and your time?

If there's a sense of progression in the relationship, like if you actually feel like things are gathering momentum, if they're going somewhere, if there's mutual intentionality, you actually feel like both of you are being intentional about wanting a real relationship. It doesn't mean you necessarily know that the other person is right for that, but you just have a sense that both of us are actually genuinely open to something at this point in our lives. If you feel that there's light at the end of the tunnel, that you've actually got something on the horizon that says we are going to see each other, this isn't just a, an exercise in, you know, long distance communication. We are actually, we've made a plan. We know when we're going to see each other. We know when there's going to be an end to the long distance, even if it's a temporary end because you're going to be long distance again afterwards. What's our plan here? You know, it is very easy and long distance to just never make a plan. So there has to be some kind of a plan. And of course, none of these things are things that you can know too early on. You can't meet someone long distance and immediately start having deep and meaningfuls about the future. You can't know initially whether there's progression because that's not the point of a date. The point of a date is to see if there's attraction. The point of speaking initially is to see if there's chemistry is to see do we even enjoy each other's long distance company? So that means it kind of begs another question, which is what's a wise amount to invest in somebody that you've met, that you've decided you like who is long distance? Because if you can't tell just how intentional they're being right now, if you know, you can have some questions about what they're looking for in their life, but you don't want to start every conversation with what are you looking for. So if you can't know all of that up front, if you can't see the progression, you need to see to know if they're being serious or if there's momentum straight away without forcing it. And you don't want to force it, if you can't suddenly make a plan with someone that you've just met. Because that would, you know, not be unlike a date where we say, well, we just met on a on an app. And we live down the road from each other. So let's go for a coffee. You can't. There's no low activation energy date when it comes to long distance. In person at least. So if you can't get all of those things straight away, you have to say, therefore, I can't know. I can't know right now how worthwhile this is. And if I can't know right now how worthwhile this is, I better be careful how much I invest into this, how many eggs I put in this basket, because I just don't know. And I. One of the things that I think is a common trap that people fall into is I'm not getting enough attention where I live. I'm struggling to meet someone I like in my hometown. Nothing is happening in my dating life right now. And all of a sudden I meet someone who seems, you know, exciting and I have chemistry and, you know, I've seen them on FaceTime or, you know, on their profile and they're good looking and I'm attracted to them and oh my God, we just had a great conversation by text or by phone. I really like this person. The danger there is that now you've decided you really like this person who lives nowhere near you. You ignore all of your other options back home. You no longer want to create options back home. And so now you're all of a sudden, very quickly in an existence with someone you don't know at all. They're basically a stranger. But for one or two conversations, you're now waiting for their next text or their next call. It's like out of nowhere, your love life and your happiness in your love life has become dependent on this person who lives far away from you. You have no idea what they're up to in their spare time, and you're now waiting around for that person to come to you or to text you, or to reach back out to you or to respond to your message. And I think it's worth saying that long distance relationships are set up to be exciting. There is something about them that is inherently in a way, easier because I don't have to worry that I'm going to meet you anytime soon. So I can just, I can be. I can talk to you, you can talk to me. We have this kind of Romeo and Juliet scenario where there's a barrier to us being together. So that's already kind of sexy. Like, it's already a sense of like, oh, well, this isn't going to work, or this isn't ideal. And so now it makes it, you know, our brain starts telling us, well, maybe it is. Maybe this is someone I really like. And oh, what a shame. Someone I really like. I wish they lived in my town, but. But that same person might not have been as exciting if you did meet them in your town. Long distance relationships are very attractive for avoidance because if you're an avoidant, you feel quite happy being the most charming, fun, sensitive, caring version of yourself when you're long distance, because there's no threat to this person all of a sudden wanting to see you every day of the week, because they can't.

Are you confusing, though, when you're talking about this? A long distance relationship and a long distance situationship. Because I think they're two very different things. Right. Stephen, you're in a long distance relationship right now, in this very moment.

Correct. As were you when you first got together.

Yeah.

So Matthew's caution here, you know, you, you did it.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Yeah, I listen, I'm not someone who says don't have a long distance relationship, but they're. I don't necessarily think that they're advisable for everybody. And I think that you have to like, the default has to be. If you're gonna date someone long distance, you have to know that there's so many ways that long distance relationships suck that it needs to be really great and promising for you to bother investing your time in it. Otherwise, why do it? There's too many drawbacks.

I agree with that 100%.

But the problem is when we're coming to our love lives from a place of lack and, you know, feeling like I just, nothing is happening in my love life, any amount of attention feels good. Any amount of communication with another human being who's asking you how your day was and, you know, ask to asking you about yourself and having fun, sexy conversations is going to feel really, really attractive.

But again, I think that's a situationship. Right. So it's a long distance situationship. You don't know where you stand. And you're right, you can run out a lot of time on the clock, just kind of staying in that dynamic with somebody. But I'm curious. So, Stephen, for instance, in your situation now, like, did you feel like there was like a difference in the organic way in which the relationship progressed because it was long distance? Because I, I actually think long distance with the right people end up being far more intentional far earlier on, if that makes sense. Because I think it's for two people are actually Going, I really like you, I want to see you, I want this to work. And you know that there is this obstacle. I think you're more likely to be like kind of, you know, putting all your ducks in a row in order to make sure that happens, putting in more effort, actually dedicating and carving out time to calling them and making sure they know that you really like them and making sure they know that you're not getting with other people because you don't want them to go and get with other people. So I think it can actually almost fast track it sometimes, if that's mutual, if that's.

Yeah, very often what you're talking about is only happening on one side of the equation.

I'm curious, Stephen, as someone who's, who's, you know, currently in it, and you're roughly a year into this relationship, what would you say is the difference between that relationship being long distance? How did, how did that affect the relationship both positively and negatively in terms of its progression?

And yeah, I think the difficulty is if you start long distance, you. You don't have that time initially to really test how it is being together day to day. And so.

True.

That's tough at first because there are just a lot of questions. Like, this was really good to start with. We had some great dates, but we live far away. And so I think you do. I mean, you know, I'm generally a cautious, but I don't run into things quickly. I'm not like a headstrong romantic. I like to see how things are going. But I think knowing at first you really like in my relationship, we carried on the communication very quickly after we were separated after our first few dates and we were talking a lot, getting to know each other, feeling out, communication styles. I think both knew we wanted to talk a lot. And really it was like, oh, this is really, really great. I don't want to just fly back and not speak anymore because it seems worth pursuing.

Which should be said from you as a giant compliment because the rest of us barely get a phone call from you.

Right, exactly.

So, in fact, I think there's an unread message I sent you a week ago and I still haven't got a response from it.

You went back a week and a half ago to London to see your partner, and I didn't hear from you one single time until last night when you said, what time are we filming today?

Well, I enjoyed a little break, Matthew, you know, we talked.

What's your excuse when you're in la?

I reach out to you sometimes, sometimes I reach out to you. I'm like, all right, boy, you wanna do brunch this weekend or just give you a call?

A long term relationship, a long distance relationship between you two would just not work out.

It wouldn't. The communication, you would lack the motivation.

Ye. Um, but that's the point. I. I had the motivation and unlike.

With you, I had the motivation.

But there had to be like, I think, I think we both went in very wise. I don't. Eyes wide open. Like, this isn't anything we would both have chosen. So we're going to have to, you know, I'll come back on X date, like very soon after us talking for a couple of weeks after me flying back here, it was like, you know, let's plan a date when we'll do a trip, either you to me or me to you, and, you know, properly spend some time together. And we did. I think you're right. There needs to be a sense of once you go, okay, we're doing this, which after a certain point we did. There does need to be. It all needs to be on the table. You need to be very open about your plans and the possibilities of like, how do we close that gap at some point and kind of figure out together. It really has to be like, we're both willing to mutually figure this out and compromise and be a team planning this together. It doesn't mean you'll know exactly what the next few years look like, but there needs to be a lot of communication on how often do we need to see each other to make this tolerable? You know what? Would you be willing to move here? Would I be willing to move to you? That stuff all needs to be very heavily communicated, I think.

And if I have a question, I.

Was just gonna say I want to. I want to hear your question. I was just gonna say if someone's not having those. If you feel like you're treading on eggshells, having any of those conversations months in, it's kind of like, what are we doing here?

Well, that was my question. That's actually my question to you guys. I hear that and I'm like, yeah, but I can imagine a situation where I'm in a long distance relationship. I really like the person, especially as a woman, you know, I really like the guy and I don't want to like come in all hot and be like, would you move to my city? And you know, when are we like next seeing each other? You want to keep it light because you want to be easy Breezy, and it's early days. And you also, like, haven't actually established that much time together, so.

Yeah, my girlfriend didn't do that at all. So in a way, she kind of let her see how much I was. She let herself see. Like, is he gonna call me when he goes back? Is he.

You. She let you do it?

Well, I think at first she was not sure how I was gonna be when I flew home.

Okay.

Here. So I think at first to her, she was kind of like, I don't know if he's gonna keep calling me. I don't know if that was just, like, a couple of dates and that's it. And I think once she knew, oh, you called me as soon as you got back. We talked a lot. You were actually reaching out. She felt safe to then, like, invest more.

So she tested the waters a little bit, but then would kind of invest in accordance to how much you were giving.

Well, yeah, and we both weren't putting out. Like, we weren't throwing out really quickly. Like, are we long distance? Are we doing this? I think we wanted to see. Does this flame burn out with distance? Does this flame just burn out or does it keep going?

How many months in was it before you started talking about, like, okay, how are we gonna do this? How often are we gonna. How are we gonna get to see each other more often? And what. What does this look like in terms.

Of getting with other people?

I think. Oh, Like, I think after I did the first visit home, we got more clear on, like, you know, it was really great. And. Okay, like, how often can we manage to see each other? How much holiday do you get? Where will we go?

And how many months in was that?

Like, like three, four?

Yeah, we're not talking about, like, nine months in because it's. And I think it's important people hear that because these things take a lot of work. Long distance takes a lot of work when you're speaking. And at a certain point, when you're speaking to someone every day and you're constantly texting them, like, I'm not saying a situation where when someone's in town, you have fun with them, or when you're in their town, you have fun, and it's never that intentional. And it's just like, we might text, we might not. Whatever, that's fine. That knows what it is. But someone who you're talking to every day and you feel like you're basically having an emotional relationship with constantly. You're in each other's lives. You know what each other have been up to. If I asked you what that person did yesterday, you'd know that at that point, you have to kind of start going, okay, what if we've been doing this for the last couple of months and we're in month three now of doing this? What are we doing here? Because otherwise you can do that for a long time under false pretenses where you're afraid to bring up when are we going to see each other, or how often are we going to get to see each other? Like, I like that. I like that questioning of, well, how often is it feasible that we'll be able to see each other? Because what that says, what the real subtext of that question is, is this going to work? Like it. For us to be investing consistently in this, it needs to work. And for it to work, we need to have an honest chat about how often we'd even get to see each other and is that enough for us? And actually, it's interesting. It's a way. It's actually indicative of a standard. It feels like it's indicative of being like. Your question, Audrey, is like getting at the. But when does that become needy? Or when does that become you trying to push too hard in a situation that hasn't earned it yet, but at the point at which it's earned it? Because you're speaking all the time, and it's now. You're now three months into this situation. At that point, it's having those conversations is actually indicative of being someone who values their time and their energy. Because you're like, why? You know, the subtext has to be, why on earth would I speak to someone for an hour every day or text them relentlessly over the course of every day and for weeks and months on end? Why would I do that with someone where there was no plan here?

Yeah. And that's why in our relationship, it came up very soon. The idea of, like, I'll come and see you. And at least the idea was came up and we talked about when that could happen. You know, can it be in next month or two months? It was actually more difficult than it needed to be just because we both had, like, a very tough schedule at that time. But that was. I couldn't have gone, like three months, four months longer talking with. No, none of us talking about that. It would. And I think there are a lot of people who do that. And it's like, well, if the person you're talking to isn't even proactive in doing that, this is going to be hard. Like, it's going to, it's going to have tough times and it's going to just require you to be more, more planning out your life around this.

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So I want to know what are the signs if I am in a long distance relationship right now and I'm three months in, let's say, or less, like two months, three months in, and I want to know what the signs are that my long distance relationship is actually going to go the distance that this person is intentional. Maybe I'm not quite in a place where I can outright ask that question comfortably and maybe you'll say that's a.

Bad sign, maybe months in.

But, but I want to know what, in your opinion, both of you, what the signs are that a long distance relationship is going to be one that's viable, like yours, Stephen, and like ours was, or you're actually kind of wasting your time because that person is potentially just enjoying the company, having someone to speak to, you know, feeling like they can come, come back to you at the end of the day to talk to you about things. But really there's no true intentionality from their end.

I would be paying attention to fits and starts. So like if you feel like you get some very intense attention sometimes, you know, maybe it's a Sunday and they're like lonely and they're reaching out to you a lot, but then you don't hear from them very much for the next week, that is a danger sign.

If, but couldn't that be because they're working in the day and they're tired and time zones and plans like, then.

You shouldn't be in a long distance relationship if you, if you're someone who can't communicate regularly, you cannot make a long distance relationship work. You need more communication in a long distance relationship, not less. You can get away with being like, I'm not just, I don't really like being on my phone. If you're someone who lives down the street and we see each other four times a week, but if, if I'm not seeing you for two months, you can't be a bad communicator. I'm never, like, I would never be in a long distance relationship with someone who was a bad communicator long distance. Because what is the point if you see them, if speaking of the fits and starts, if you see someone and you have the greatest week of your life with them and then you both go home and then you don't really hear much from them, huge warning sign, huge.

Then you're not in a long distance relationship. You're just, you went to visit someone who wanted to have a good time and that's it.

And yes, and by the way, yes, you two have an awesome time when you're together. That's not fake. You two have a great time when you're together. But that's what this person is looking for, a good time. You were an exper, you are an experience to be had, not a person to be with. And it's a very common thing that happens in long distance relationships is you, you know, or long. I'm using the word relationships very broadly here. Not just to define to, to label two people who are in a monogamous relationship, but just two people who have some kind of ongoing dynamic. But in that situation, it's extremely common for people to be like, we had the best time. We went away together. The sex was amazing. We had so much fun. We had all these great chats. It was amazing. I got a glimpse into what life would be like together. Which by the way, is because that's like saying, you know, the week of our honeymoon is a glimpse into our life together. No, it's not. No, it's not. Who you, how you feel about someone and how you treat each other on day 57 of being together is a glimpse into life together. But it's certainly not a week that you go away together and have an amazing time. That is not a glimpse into life together. So that's another danger of long distance relationships is very often you go, you can go years of only having honeymoons with someone and think, God, I wish I could have this every day. That wouldn't exist every day because you're always seeing them in these little honeymoon compartments, but you can have an amazing time with someone and then you go home. And this is very common that person, all of a sudden, their communication is incredibly sparse.

Oh, it's the worst feeling.

And. And if that happens, you asked what are the signs that you don't have something that's real. That's a pretty serious sign that that person's not being intentional. They're not trying to progress this to anything more than what it is today, that all you have is someone you have a great time with, not someone that you have the option of being with. That, I think is the biggest one.

That's a really, really good one. And it's. It's true. What about. You hear from them every day, but not consistently. And maybe you somehow don't quite feel like you can ask them. Like, the big thing that people wonder is I wonder if they're seeing other people. And a lot of people end up kind of. They end up at the conclusion that, well, I'm sure they're not, because I know. I always know where they are. You always hear that.

Right.

And I've said that before as well, by the way. So, you know, no shade on people feeling that. But like, this idea of, like, they couldn't possibly be getting with other people because, like, they wouldn't have time because they speak to me all the time or see me all the time. But obviously that's a big thing with long distances. Like, unless you've clarified that, you really don't know what someone's up to. Right. So if you. What are the signs in terms of communication in any given week? Like, you mentioned being really intense on a Sunday and maybe like a little bit more sporadic in the week. Like, what are the signs that maybe again, you are still kind of being not well used? I suppose, yes. As an experience and a comfort, rather than like, actually with somebody who wants to build something with you.

I think can. You can. At a certain point it becomes, can we talk about it or do they avoid the subject?

And how do you know that that's your anxiety versus their lack of willingness to talk about it? Like, how do you know that you're the one. You're not the one going, well, I'm just really anxious to have this conversation because I don't want to come across too intense versus they haven't made you feel comfortable enough to talk about it.

I see. I want to reframe this whole thing to. It's not. Forget your anxiety about. We all. We all feel some. When we want something to happen. Call it anxiety, call it hope, call it, you know, desire for something to go the way that you want it to. Go. Whether it's a job that you're interviewing for or a, you know, some, a business that you're launching or, you know, a relationship that dating someone and you hope that it turns out to be something we all, who, who hasn't had that experience of thinking, I really hope that this turns into something. I really hope this becomes something. So that, hope that desire isn't something that's limited to people who are anxiously attached. Everyone can have that feeling. But the way we take power back is by saying, there becomes a point in our lives where I am investing a certain amount of energy and time consistently into something that I wouldn't be doing if it wasn't with the, the, the knowledge that we both feel that this is something that we're open to trialing, you know, because that's what it is. It's a trial. We're not saying, we're not having these conversations saying we're going to be together forever. We're just having conversations saying, hey, look, you know, it's long, we're long distance. I know that's tricky. I know it's hard. I know that, you know, seeing each other is not easy. I also know that I, I wouldn't be on the phone to someone as much as I'm on the phone to you if it was, if there wasn't actually, if it wasn't something we were both genuinely exploring. And I, I, I don't want to assume you're in the same place. But I know for me, like, you know, my time is valuable if I'm going to put energy into this from afar, which is suboptimal. It's not like my ideal scenario isn't meeting someone I really like who lives, you know, five hours away by flight or car or whatever, our continent away. In some cases, that's not my ideal. But I do like you. But I also know that it takes a lot of energy to pour into someone who is far away. So I, I probably wouldn't continue doing this unless we were both open to exploring what that becomes in a meaningful way. That's a very important. Again, that's, that's not someone speaking from desperation. That's someone saying, my time is valuable, my energy is valuable. I'm not gonna, you know, I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't in the same. In business, you know, if you're constantly providing a service, when you speak to many different service providers on the phone, they might sit with you for a half hour on the phone or sometimes even an hour and give you some free advice. But at a certain point, if they're speaking to you every day, they're gonna be like this. There's a, there's a cost to that. Like I, you have to become a client.

The.

It's not exactly analogous to dating, but dating falls somewhere on that spectrum of, at a certain point, my energy is something I have to value and say, it's not worth me continuing to give this. If I. If we don't have some kind of agreement here.

I have a better analogy.

Go for it.

The farmer's market, which shows my age. You know how they give you samples?

Yeah.

You wouldn't like, get to just eat, you know, a whole box of cookies worth of samples after a while, once you've tried all the flavors, they say, or you've had enough, you've had enough, you either buy the cookie or you walk away, lady.

They say, the fact that I know you by name means you've had enough. You need to buy some cookies or get the hell out of here.

It's good analogy though, right?

The. The part that I really want to caution people against is assuming some, that you are in an exclusive relationship with someone who is long distance when you've never had the conversation. That is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. The whole assumption that, well, they wouldn't even have time to see someone else. There are people in marriages who live very busy lives, have multiple kids, and somehow find time to have a whole other relationship that they're family doesn't know about. Like, that is a poor kind of logic to fall back on. The much stronger position is to state to someone, hey, look, I. Much like I just said I'm having a great time, but I feel like I'm at this point we're investing a lot of time into this. I know that I know myself. I'm not. If I'm investing this much time and energy in somebody, and first I'm not inclined to see other people while I'm investing this much time and energy into someone. I'm also the kind of person that would get their feelings hurt if the other person was. So I just want to have that conversation openly because I know that if you're still inclined to see other people, it really changes the equation here on me giving as much as I'm giving to this situation.

And actually everybody listening. If you like this subject, if you feel like there's any other questions that you have around this subject, Please email us podcasty.com It's a really big subject. Long distance, we get a lot of questions about it. So. Yeah.

And I have so much more to say. This. This.

We'll.

We're going to move on now, but I have so much more to say. If you want a part two of this episode, let us know in your email.

Subject line. Farmers market cookies.

That's too long for a subject line.

No more cookies.

No more cookies. No more.

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No more cookies for you. Subject line. No more cookies.

Thank you, David. No more cookies.

So we did an episode recently called why Women Are Giving up on Men in 2025. Go back and listen to that one if you haven't already. There were a few people who felt we missed some key points in that episode. I'm going to read some comments. Not everyone was happy with this episode. A turner047 said, There are so many things I feel like you've ignored in this episode. Dating in your 30s is all the leftovers and people who have come out of toxic relationship leftovers in your 30s.

As a man who dated in my 30s, I'm offended.

Put you guys in the microwave.

I'm just. Yeah, Audrey came along and she just reheated me. And some meals like pizza, which is. Which is your favorite food, Audrey, are delicious. Reheated.

Yeah. In the oven.

Is that what I am to you? Reheated pizza?

There are worse things to be.

She goes on to say, they're either the problem or scarred from the people who are the problem. There are very few people out here who are actually doing the work to better themselves. I'm reading this very aggressively. I don't know if she meant it this aggressively. Let me try a different tone. There are very few people out here who are actually doing the work to better themselves. And those of us who are. Are actually finding they don't want to compromise their peace anymore for people who are more than likely the problem. This goes for both men and women. I'm curious as to. There's a lot of exceptionalism in this comment. I always am paying attention to that. Is that idea that, you know a comment written by someone in their 30s who says everyone who's single in their 30s is leftovers apart from myself.

Right.

And I get, I get the point that's being made here that you know, if you're doing the work to better yourself, you come across lots of people who aren't and it becomes very apparent to you that you. It becomes very obvious to you that you speak different languages. You're someone who's introspective, self, aware. You've done a Lot of work. And you're speaking to people who are still very much blind to the ways that they are the problem in their relationships. I just. I just struggle with this idea that there's just no. The. The kind of. The insinuation is that there's just no one else who's either doing the work or who is naturally kind of introspective and is happy to develop and grow.

Yeah. I mean, I've seen data on the fact that people who get together later in their life, the relationships last longer. So I'm not even sure they're worse candidates for relationships. You know, as you go past your.

30S, I think that if, you know, I maintain that if you had met me in. In our 20s or I'd met you in your 20s, Audrey wouldn't have worked. Would have been a disaster.

Disaster. We've said that before. Yeah, I was.

What.

You want to finish your standards?

Well, we were both idiots.

Yeah.

But I. But I really. I. As well. Especially you. I was only saying it to be polite, really. I just meant you. But I really do. I really do believe that, like, I'm grateful. I mean this sincerely. I am massively grateful for all of your failed relationships because it's. And I'm so grateful for my failed relationships because they teach you so much. They teach you how to have an argument in the right way. They teach you what not to say in an argument. They teach you that some things you can't take back once you've said them. They teach you how to be more gracious or empathetic. And I get that not everyone takes those lessons on board. Some people repeat the same mistakes over and over again their entire lives. But I actually believe you have more of a shot with someone who's been through the wringer and had their heart broken and had some. Some failed relationships than with someone who's 21 and fresh out of college or, you know, like, straight out of, like, teenagehood. And all of a sudden, they're what? That's the perfect person today. I just don't buy it. I think that's the worst person to date.

I think, you know, a turn of the sentiment here, which I really sympathize with, is that feeling of the older you get, the more you feel like when you look around, everybody is in relationships, everybody's coupled up. And, you know, I then go on dates with people, and I'm not necessarily feeling what I want to feel, or there's just a lot of, you know, bad candidates to date out there. But I. I Actually think that the dangerous thing about this rhetoric is it kind of becomes the lens through which you look at every potential partner with. And then that's just going to be what you attract more of. People who are damaged, people who don't want to work on themselves, people who are whatever. And I think there's plenty of people I can think off the top of my head right now, three different people who I'm incredibly close to who have just come out of relationships, and they're in their mid to late 30s.

Yeah.

And those people are wonderful people. Their relationship didn't work out. In some cases, they met when they were too young. In other cases, they just didn't work out. Like, they're not leftovers. They're just back out there. And I understand there are fewer of those people, but to your point, both of your points, if you actually can find them, you might have a better shot at making it work with that person then the person you meet at 25 years old who hasn't necessarily been through all of those things. And so you might feel like you have more choice. But in terms of people who are actually looking for the same thing as you and who have got the battle scars and are actually going to be a good partner to you, I would encourage you to look at it a little bit differently because I think it can actually be a positive thing dating in your 30s.

And I do think labeling people, and I mean this kindly labeling people, things like leftovers, it. It engenders a certain lack of generosity of spirit.

Yeah.

You offended both Stephen and Matt in that.

I said I was happy to be leftovers because I'm reheated pizza.

That's true, Stephen.

I always knew I didn't want. Yeah, I. I just would have been so much worse at a very serious relationship in my 20s. So I. I knew I do not want to get married in my 20s from a very early age.

There's a great song by George Watsky, a rapper called Sloppy Seconds, that I very much recommend as required listening for this segment.

Homework.

Yeah, Go listen to George Watsky's Sloppy Seconds because it is a beautiful song about accepting the, as I put it in my book, love life, the broken vessels that we all are, and actually be finding those people more interesting than the brand new car, the glossy car that you see that, you know, has never had a dent put in it.

He.

He missed an opportunity to call it leftover pizza. Reheated pizza.

No, he's. I think the lyrics go cold pizza, tie dye shirts, sloppy seconds. Give them here that's cold pizza is literally one of the lyrics in the song. All right. Melissa responded to this comment from a Turner, Mel W669, and says this. So she's actually agreeing with a Turner this. I've been doing the work. The more I do the work, the less appealing a relationship looks because the dating pool is actually not really appealing in your 40s. As far as companionship, I have talked with a couple of different female friends who would be seriously willing to consider going in on a house or a shared property together as we age to ease the burden of being alone as we grow older. That wouldn't be lonely. There would be no pressure to perform for romantic purposes. Less conflict, a feeling of a small community, mutual help when it's needed, companionship. The more I talk about it, the more ideal it seems to me. I guess the incentive to be in a romantic partnership is just lessening. What exactly is the point? Sex. Well, frankly, I can do without that and have been for a while now. I can get the other benefits from situations which require no performance and just being allowed to live freely.

I. I get that. I get the. My friends and I always used to say, well, if we don't find love, let's just all live together and have communal babies.

All right.

This is something men never say to each other.

That's true.

I'm just saying, just.

Men just.

They never say communal babies.

No, but not.

And they don't even say, like, let's just all. If we're none of us find relationships, we'll all just get a nice house together.

Yeah.

And men just go, I'll just be alone.

Well, that's why, that's why, like, camping is such a thing. It's like they're like.

Learn how to fish.

Yeah. I actually kind of see what. You know, I think a lot of people who have spent time on their own and enjoy their own company can relate to what this person's saying. But also it's kind of like what she's got is a strength and in a way that makes you able to choose a relationship from a way more conscious position. So I don't, I don't know, it's like the. I. I'm someone who's very self fulfilled in terms of I do enjoy my own company. I have lots of interests, lots of things that excite and it stimulate me outside of, you know, when I've been single, been happy to do that. But it's also like, that's a cool position because then choosing a relationship should be from that place a very positive thing of like, okay, I want to bring this in because it's just gonna add and bring meaning and joy, and I'm gonna, you know, choose the person who's gonna do that, and I don't have to bother with the people who drain me and don't do that. So. And I think the challenge for some people comes making the room for that. Or maybe you say, well, no one's as. You know, no one's gonna be as entertaining as me being on my own. But I think that is also a bit of a limited perspective, because I think they're just. There will be some people you have a really great connection with. There will be exciting, interesting people. You kind of have to flip your mindset a bit to be more curious, I think, than judgmental. I think it's hard if you come at it very judgmental, like, no one's good enough or no one is, you know, improving themselves. Yeah, I think that's a mindset thing.

Don'T you, Stephen Hussy? That's very wise.

Also, what is the part that is being agreed upon in the first. Because, like, if. If everyone's leftovers, then you've also pegged all of your friends in the commune as leftovers as well.

A bunch of leftovers sharing a house.

A mashed potato castle.

You know, I think there's an added.

Kind of lighted on something there because we're. We're very accepting. We're far more accepting of our friends than we are of other people that we date.

But remember, this is from the episode why Women are Giving up on men in 2025. Both of these comments are from women, and I believe that that is a sentiment of women saying, basically. I mean, I know a Turner said it's applicable to both men and women, but I think in Mel's case, she's basically saying, like, I have awesome female friends and I can't find a decent guy. So we're gonna all live in a community.

And a lot of. A lot of women also feel they feel I'm gonna have to do a lot of things for a man. Like, there's the whole concept of emotional labor or whatever. I'm gonna be picking up his clothes, I'm gonna be cleaning the house. You know, a lot of women feel that I'm going to end up doing things.

Yeah. I mean, I want to be clear on something. I. This. This comment makes total sense to me. Like, it's a really natural instinct to be like, I'm not this. What's Being offered isn't interesting to me. And I have women, I have friends that I love to pieces who are awesome. And I'm quite happy just having a wonderful community of friends. And we take care of each other and we're there for each other. And you know that there's something extremely attractive about that ideal. It's hard if, you know, in the middle of that ideal, four of those friends end up finding love.

I know.

You know, that's a tricky. You can't bank on none of you finding love ever again unless you will.

Make a pact that you stop looking.

Right. Then you're sort of limiting each other, aren't you? That's, that's not friendship if we all limit each other. I, I, but, but there is something highly attractive about that idea. But it's, I think that we have to make a distinction between I've, I'm enjoying single life enough that I, and I've built enough independence and relationships outside of a romantic context that I now don't feel I'm reliant on romance to be happy. There's a difference between that and saying, the more I grow, the more I find a relationship less appealing. That to me seems like much more of a leap because I think the more we grow, the more we're sort of just excited about life. We're more present with life. Like, I hope, as we. The form, to me, a version of growth that's worth it is a version of growth that makes us more present, more mindful. And when we're being present and mindful, we're not living in this place of control where we're constantly trying to control all the outcomes in life. We're actually very much open to the present moment and what it could bring. And it could bring anything. It could bring wonderful moments of friendship. It could bring an interesting human being into your life that you develop with romantically. I mean, you know, even Eckhart Tolle is in a relationship. If anyone should be enlightened enough that he doesn't need a relationship, it's Eckhart. And he's still like, yeah, I'll have one.

Yeah, I'll have one.

You know, it's, it, I, I think that we should remain open. And I think that's a form of presence. It's a, that's a form of growth. Is I've become mindful enough that I'm open to what life brings me. Yes. As opposed to I've decided ahead of time what life isn't going to bring me.

Yes.

And the idea that there are zero worthwhile experiences to be had ever again with the gender I'm attracted to is at least a very, very, very big and certain statement. I also want to say, Audrey, to your comment about it being all women. There was a gentleman here, Tobias, who says he was actually agreeing with these women. In fact, he agreed with one woman in particular who, who took issue with us talking about, you know, this, you know, cliche of women looking for tall, attractive, well to do men. And I think we actually pointed out that that cliche was not always true. That was one of the key points we were making. But someone said, I'm really sick of the superficial kind of cliches. I don't care, you know, about a man being six foot and six, having six figures and all of that crap. She said, many of us don't care about that and dating is still a disaster. And then Tobias, gentleman here agrees and says, this is true. I am six feet to work out regularly and have a decent job in tech and women do not care. I am completely invisible. So. But I think we made that point on the episode. Having these things is no guarantee of success in love, and not having them is no guarantee of failure in love. It's, it's hard out there and it's hard to find someone great. I mean, talk about it's hard to find someone you have a meaningful, authentic connection with. Tell that to any famous person who's looking for love. Why is it that we constantly see famous people who seem year after year after year to struggle to find love? Because having everything isn't a guarantee of finding what we're all looking for, which is a authentic, meaningful connection. It's, it's tricky, but I do think remaining open is part of the key. We can go into all of that more in another episode, but I thought it was interesting to just touch on some of the feedback and some of the criticism that we received in, in that episode. It's always nice to be able to give, you know, airtime to both sides of these arguments. We love your comments, you know, even if we play with you in the comments and your ideas, we love getting them because they make, they refine our arguments and they also give us more to talk about. So thank you. We have a love lifeline here. David, will you play us our love lifeline? And if you want to be on Love Lifeline, email podcastthuhussey.com with a short 30 second voice note of your question.

Hey, Matthew, I've been doing a lot of work on myself over the Past few years, really digging into my childhood stuff, my attachment patterns, and just learning how to show up in a healthier way. I feel like I'm finally ready for a genuine, healthy relationship. But I'm also questioning what being ready actually feels like. And is now that my attraction patterns are shifting, I sometimes find it hard to tell what's what. Like, is this person genuinely interested and consistent? Or are they love bombing? Or maybe they're just a bit disinterested? Not that into me. And I'm reading too much into it. So I'd love to know. How do you know when you're truly ready for a healthy relationship? And how can you start trusting yourself to tell the difference between real connection and those old familiar dynamics?

Oh, what a wonderful question that was from Jess. And Jess, thank you. Is a beautiful question. Something I think we all relate to. You know, how do I know when I'm actually ready? And I don't. I. I don't really believe in the idea of being 100% ready, especially when it is talked about in the context of having figured out all of our stuff. Because when, when have any of us figured out all of our stuff? You know, when are you not going to have a conversation in a relationship that you regret or, you know, a conversation you wish you'd had better or a reactive moment where you wish you'd composed yourself more before reacting to something? All of us have those moments in relationships. What are we? Do we then decide we're not ready? Like, we shouldn't have got into this relationship. Clearly we weren't ready since we're still, you know, having these reactive moments. We're going to have reactive moments. We're going to get it wrong. And especially when you're changing patterns in your life, you know, you talked about working on your emotions, your attachment style. You know, these, these are, what you're describing are your relationship patterns. And changing those things is one of the most difficult things in the world. It might be the most difficult thing in the world to take the person that our genes, our past, our conditioning, our society, you know, our caregivers have made us and going, I'm gonna do something different than that. I'm not gonna. That thing that my whole life and my makeup has put me on a path to being like, I'm going to do something different. I'm not going to just react with jealousy. I'm not going to just, you know, give in to my anxiety every time someone's away from me. I'm not going to. Like, these are very Very hard things to change. It's miraculous when we change them. Most people don't. So you're what I want to congratulate you on and what I think you should give yourself more credit for is the self awareness and the consciousness that you're actually bringing to these patterns in the first place. Because just bringing awareness just even just the point of saying this is. This thing I'm doing right now is not me, it's my pattern. This is something that, you know, in my case, ah, Matthew is doing. I can watch Matthew doing something that Matthew does. He's getting very wound up right now about something that he's likely making too much of. That even just that I'm getting space between me and this thing that I do. And that consciousness is what makes better relationships. We would all have better relationships if we went into them giving it a beat before we reacted to something, before we sent that text. If we do give it a thought before we go and have that conversation in a reactive way and that it sounds like that's the kind of consciousness that you're bringing to your life. So celebrate that and say it's not. Readiness isn't. I've figured everything out. Readiness is the state of finally being ready to observe my own patterns, my own behaviors, to give it a thought before I just act reflexively in the way that I always have and to begin to train new reflexes. And if I find a partner who's doing the same in their life, then we're going to grow a lot together, we're going to heal a lot together, we're going to change a lot together. And we won't be perfect and there will be bumps along the way, but. But we're both going to be two people who make each other better. That I think to that extent you are ready. And you shouldn't be trying to score a perfect score because you just won't. And neither will they. And they'll need your grace when they don't score a perfect score and you'll need their grace when you don't score a perfect score. And that grace is what will make the relationship work as long as you're both striving to do better and that you make good on that promise to do better. So that that's how I think about everything you've said. And the last thing I'll say is just understand that when you're trying to change a pattern, you're trying to recalibrate. And recalibrations are inherently messy. If you are someone, for example who's trying to stick up for yourself more in life. In the process of trying to stick up for yourself, there will still be moments where you feel you don't do it enough. And you'll kick yourself for having not stuck up for yourself in a certain situation or advocated for your needs, which, by the way, is progress. If now, instead of just walking away from a situation going, that hurt or I didn't get my needs met, now you're actually kicking yourself for not saying something. Well, before you never even kicked yourself for not saying something. You were just like, this is the way it is. So just being, just even the act of being like, ah, I, I, there was a moment where I could have said something and I didn't. That's progress. So. But there'll still be moments where you don't say something, and there'll be moments where you say too much, where you were frustrated about something and you said, this is my moment to stick up for myself. And you did it a little too hard and you didn't need to make such a big thing out of that. But that's okay because you're calibrating. And if you share with your partner that, hey, this is something I'm working on, this is something I'm looking to improve on in my life, they'll understand that there'll be a clumsiness to you getting it right, but it's not going to stop you, the trajectory of your intentions in that area. But give yourself permission to not get it right and then go and have relationships. The, the test of, you know, the, the test of everything really is, is testing it in action. It's not, you know, you can't test all of these new skills you're learning sat at home in a room on your own. That's the sound of one hand clapping.

I love, I love that you said that. I think all the work is ahead of you when you actually get in the relationship, because all of your triggers and all of the things that you're working on are actually going to come up in relationship. And you can only. I think it was Herman who said, you can only heal what has been broken in relationships, in relationship, in relationships with other people. So I think, I think that's really, really important. There's only so much you can do with working on yourself in your own time. You actually have to get out there and see what comes up for you when you actually get in relationships with other people.

Very good. Well, thank you, Jess, for. Right, for leaving that message and that question again. Anyone who wants to be on Love Lifeline? You can email us with your voice note. Please keep it to 30 seconds@podcasty.com. My friends, it is that time again.

You had a new theme song for this. Do you want to sing?

I didn't. It wasn't a serious new theme song because I. I really like the existing theme song.

But. But you also did pitch it.

It's Steve Sleeves. Steve Sleeves. Whammalama bama lama Steven Sleeves.

Earlier when he did. It was yabba dabba Steve Sleeves.

It changes.

All right. Roll the real theme song.

Wait, wait. I was doing my thing. Everybody, it's that time again. It's time for Steves Sleeves. I now play the same song. Don't be bereaved.

You know that we can't leave without another episode of Steve Sleeves.

Welcome to Steve Sleeves, everyone. Today we're going to be playing long distance love habits. So we talked about long distance. I want to give a list of habits that may or may not make long distance relationships stronger. You have to say if they are essential. Nice to have. Or unhinged.

Okay, can I just say, Steven, I'm just writing these down so I remember them. Essential. Nice to have an unhinged. We recently, for all of our Love Life members, did a Love Life Live event in Miami. We did after the retreat. And you were the speaker at that event. And there was a drinks, you know, situation afterwards where everyone got together and hung out. And you said that more than a few people came up to you and said they absolutely adored Steve Sleeves and it would be heartbreaking to them if anything ever happened to it.

Oh, yeah. And the whole retreat we did, people were coming up all the time and the first thing they would mention about the podcast was Steve Sleeves.

That was the first thing.

It seems like the people are demanding this feature.

When they. When they said Steve Sleeves, did they say Sleeves with three e's?

They didn't.

Little catch on.

Okay.

It's hard to know.

All right, so go on. Essential. Nice to have an unhinged. Long. Long distance dating habits.

Okay. Having a shared time every weekend for a FaceTime call. Like a specific block blocked off. This is our time. Regular as clockwork.

Nice to have, I think, essential, but I don't think it has to be the same every single weekend. But I think you have to set like a schedule around when you're gonna speak.

Like, have it.

Have a. Like it's a date.

Exactly.

Yeah. But not like it doesn't have. It's not essential that it's like regimented. The same time every week. That could be a bit rigid.

Yeah, that's true.

Also, time zones are tricky, as I have learned in my relationship. But we usually do do a longer call on the weekend. Having an activity you synchronize together. Like watching a show, gaming, reading, the same book.

Essential.

Essential.

Essential. Because you don't want to give someone the impression that the. That any time you spend time together it has to be in conversation. Because real life isn't like that. In real life, we watch a movie together, we watch a TV show, we sit and read together. You know, we, we hang out in. We're in company, not conversation.

We used to do that, didn't we? We used to have FaceTime on and Matt would be like watching something or reading or chilling. And because of the time zones. Eight hours. I was eight hours ahead. I would go to sleep, but I would have you on my pillow. And then you would just keep the FaceTime on, which is so cute when you think about it.

It was adorable. But. But that was that.

But it felt like hanging out.

Yeah, you. The rule is if you want long distance, show the person you're doing it with that it's okay to be in company together. Not simply anytime we're together we have to talk. Because if you do that, you'll actually spend a lot less time together because it'll always feel like pressure.

Okay, top tip. If you're in long distance, play. Play wordle and Connections together. That's what I do in my relationship and it's very fun. It's every day. Very good New York Times. Little plug there. Okay. Falling asleep on FaceTime together.

Love it.

Essential.

Essential.

Essential.

Unhinged.

Time zones. Unhinged.

David says. David's just called you unhinged.

Or do you unhinged?

It's lovely if you can. It's lovely.

But you said essential. Yeah, I.

Well, it depends. Okay. Not if you're in like a three month long long distance relationship. We were long distance for almost two years and I actually think it was kind of essential.

But not every night.

Not every night. Did you say every night?

I didn't say every night.

No.

He just said falling asleep on FaceTime, I think it makes you feel close.

Fine.

I'm unhealed.

Is it good sleep hygiene though?

I think, I think, I think the. If it's expected that it is, I could do that like a couple times maybe. And it was like a cute little. Like we were late and it like accidentally happened. But if it's at all like feels compulsory, like that starts to like.

No, no, it's like the compulsory good night text. It kind of takes away from it a bit.

I, I, Steve, you'll, you'll love this. Audrey, when we, when I was at the retreat, she said, we were talking, I was really tired at the end of. Was it day one? I think it was day one. Maybe it was day two. I can't remember. I was very, very tired. And I called Audrey just to like, you know, say hi and check in and, and at the end of the call, she said, text me when you go to sleep. And I, I just went, I'm not gonna do that.

You Larry David.

I did. I said it just like that. And I don't normally say it like that. I was that tired. I was so, like, beat up and worn out that I just went, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that. And then, But I didn't, like, that's not all I said. I just went, I'm so, like, I'm so sick of my phone that I don't want to look at it one more time tonight. I just need to be able to put my phone away and, you know, like, I just don't want to look at it again. She got it. Like, you were just like, oh, yeah, of course. No worries.

Yeah, of course. No. And I mean, in my defense as well, I think it's like, you don't have to request somebody. Like, you don't have to, it doesn't have to be mandatory that somebody like, tests you, good night or good morning. But I do think it is nice. I Not in my defense, because this wasn't the question. In a long distance relationship, I do think those checkpoints can be important because I think it's sort of like the first person who wakes up the chance, the first chance they get to drop a text and say, hey, like we used to do that. I would wake up first, obviously, because of the time zone, and I wouldn't text you every morning as soon as I woke up. But you would wake up to a text from me and I would usually wake up in the morning to a text from you when you've gone to sleep. And I think those bookends to the day are actually quite important for connection because a lot of long distance is really building connection.

I say pick one of them, though. Pick morning or night.

Well, yeah, but you're doing it. You can maybe do it.

You can alternate.

Alternate. Exactly.

And sending a pic is very efficient. Send a pic.

Abigail is away right now, like three hours on set and like, Our thing is, like, very fluid. Like, it's never been said that it's expected, but I think both of us value it. In fact, like, one night last week, she didn't text back at all, and she's. And I freaked out because I was like, I didn't, you know, like, I was like, like in the morning when I saw that she hadn't texted. It was, like, a safety thing. Like, she's out in the wilderness, like, she's shooting a horror movie. Like, maybe it actually turned into a horror movie. Like, you know, and then, you know, she calls me a little later and, like, is totally casual, and it's like, oh, sorry. Like, it just. And, like, I, I'll do that like, as well, too. But, like, we're both. I think both of us still have, like, this, like, reaction of it, which I think that's what we, like, that's what kind of works is it's like we both value it, but neither of us expect it.

Yeah, no, I, I, I, I get that. I get that. I think I have the same reaction of, like, not putting too many rules on things because it starts to turn things into something that can feel stifling. All right, but if it's, if it's not good, you have to start being honest as well.

Okay. Selecting a cheese of the week that you both present to each other.

Obviously, you think that's unhinged, and you.

Both do a sampling session together, but.

They can't try the cheese.

You both have to get it.

Oh, you both have to get the same cheese. It's not like, I just present you my cheese and you present your cheese.

Okay. No, nice to have. It's. But maybe we can replace the cheese with, like, just general sharing something in.

Your life because you love cheese.

Doesn't have to be cheese. I know, but some people don't love cheese.

Well, they obviously wouldn't do this one if it, if they didn't love cheese.

But, yeah, I'd still do it.

Okay. All right, so it does have. So just to be clear, it does have to be cheese.

Cheese.

Okay. I would say nice to have.

Okay, that's what I agree.

Mailing each other hoodies that smell like you. Also known as smell mail.

Is that a real thing?

Well, I made it up.

Oh, well, then it's not also known as.

Is it. Answer the question.

I would say it's. I would say it's a strong nice to. I think that's a real. It's a nice to have. But I really like the idea. I Think that's a really good idea. Like, spray. It's like spraying it with your perfume or your cologne and sending it. I think that's a winning idea right there.

Okay, you've.

That's a very good one. I wish I'd come up with that.

Tracking each other's location on iPhones. Just for safety. No, unhinged.

Unhinged.

Because someone would say it's for safety, but really it's because they don't trust you.

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with having someone's. Having your locations on iPhone. We don't have ours, but I don't think there's anything.

If you. What's the point of it?

Wanted it. There's been moments definitely where you've been like, are you okay? Or I've been like, are you okay? And if you can kind of check in on someone and see that they're okay, then I think. I think that's. That's.

But you could be in your home and not okay. And I'll go, oh, she's in a home.

It's. I. I guess it's like, if.

If it's just in the wrong way.

I just see her hurtling in a strange direction. Like, then it would be like, where's she? Why is she.

You might be like, oh, they haven't responded to me in three hours, and it's late. But then you look and you're like, oh, they're still at their friend's house. That's fine. They just, you know, are their friend's house. It's all good.

This is so tricky, but I think.

It'S tricky because of who. The kind of person that could use that as a way of controlling and monitoring someone.

I'm very protective over you, and I do worry about you. It hasn't occurred to me to say, I must be able to track your location. And I just. I.

But if you said to me it would. I would like to. For safety, I would let you. That wouldn't bother me if it was important to you. But I don't think that's a long day.

And you'd never feel. You wouldn't feel slightly invaded by that?

No, because I trust.

What if you're like, at the shop. If you're getting me, like, a surprise donut at the donut shop, and you're.

Like, I just don't think you check it. I think you'd only check it when you're worried. And then if it makes you feel more comfortable Then that's fine.

I just, I really worry. Well, I've not only worry about this. I've had experience. I've worked with people who are with someone who has used the exact justification of I want to make sure you're okay as a way to be able to track someone's location all the time. And where it really came from is control. And I really worry about giving someone that kind of green lighting, that behavior in somebody who, where it's coming from a controlling place. It's not coming from a genuine place of just. It's nice to have it on our phones in case I ever can't reach you for hours and hours on end. And that's really weird and atypical and it makes me worry. Or you just got in a car and said you'd text me when you got there an hour from now and it's six hours later and I still haven't heard from you. And it's like, I, I just, I worry about control with that one.

Yeah. Too much potential to be unhinged. Starting a private YouTube channel to give each other weekly vlogs.

Can't you just send each other weekly?

It's not the same. It's not the same.

You have to do all the branding, the marketing, but it's all private, you know?

Yeah, but you have to like. And you have to do like a proper introduction at the beginning of the video. In this, in today's video, we going to talk about.

No, it's just the tuna salad. It's just like, come with me on my week vlog. Like, oh, I filmed stuff throughout the week.

Well, it's a vlog.

Vlog.

Like you're vlogging. Oh, that's so much work. That's unhinged. If you're sitting down just to make some content, like, you know, I'm just going to tell you, I'm gonna. There's something I want to say about my week or about, you know, it's.

Like a little super cut of things you did in the week.

So you're just filming your life all the time.

That's right.

Unhinged. We would love some reviews on this podcast, wouldn't we, guys?

Yes, sir.

We love when we get good reviews. Hurts our feelings when we get bad ones. That's the truth. We can't tell you to go and leave a good one. Just, just leave us a review and we will hope that it would be a review that we would like. Where can they leave reviews, Steven on.

Spotify or itunes on Apple? You can give it a little star rating and that's all you need to do. And you can write a review on Apple.

How many stars would you imagine we'd be hoping for?

You know, I'd love to see five there.

Yeah.

Really make my day, you know. Well, I don't, I don't want to start negotiating down.

No, no, don't negotiate. No, don't negotiate with ourselves. Let's just say five would be awesome. But you, you let us know itunes or Spotify leave us a review on the podcast. It helps spread the word about this thing that we all do. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to go and ask Matthew AI a question if you haven't already. Ask MH.com you know, whatever's come up for you in this episode, whatever you wish we had discussed, but we didn't. Go and ask Matthew AI like tips.

On how to keep your long distance relationship alive and thriving or anything really.

That you Want to know. AskMH.com is that link. We will see you next time.