The “Ex Effect”: Why Your Brain Can’t Let Them Go

You know what we've been getting a lot of questions about recently?

Go on.

People who can't get over their ex.

That has been coming up a lot.

It's a question that in a way could be said by anybody who hasn't met someone that they feel really in love with and are happy with. Right.

That's true.

It's almost like the default that if you haven't met someone that you're really happy with, where does your mind go in love? It goes to the X that you can't get over. Right. Like it's the last whoever was the best person you thought you were with or the person that brought you the most heightened emotions, the person that brought out the most, like, love in you. That is the place your mind defaults back to. So in a way, it's like anyone could say that who is either still single or who is currently with someone that they don't feel happy with. I think it's even possible, by the way, for someone to say it with someone that they are or could be happy with, but their brain is still going back there.

Yeah.

So I want to talk about that today and for us to kind of, I almost like get it. Like, there's no one thing here that you can say that's going to work for everybody. You almost have to get in and just get dirty with this. Like, get messy and be like, let's really attack this line of thinking. Because in, in many ways it's an anxious line of thinking. We think of it, I think, as a sad line of thinking or a heartbroken line of thinking or a kind of, you know, it's pained, it's like deep. It's like, oh, I love that person so much or I'll never find anyone as good as them. It feels like it's coming from a place of heartbreak and love. But so often that thought is coming from a place of anxiety. Like the anxious thought is the catastrophic one. It's, I'll never feel that way again. It's, I'll never meet anyone that good again. It's I, you know, the best is behind me. And it comes with all sorts of other anxious thoughts, like, oh, I got them because I was in the time of my life where I was like better looking and in my prime and blah, blah, blah, and I lost them. And now I'm never going to find anyone like that again because I'm no longer in that place in my life. I'm like years older now and, you know, my stock has gone down and now it's going to be hard for anyone to want me, let alone someone as good as my ex. And I think it's is one of the things that makes dating so depressing for people is that their modern dating is fraught with rejection. There's so much rejection where, you know, you. You are being rejected at a rate that we are not designed to be rejected at. And that's true of online dating, you know, and then real dating. We meet up with people and people just disappear. You know, they ghost, they fade. Even the ones that seem hopeful in the beginning. It's shocking how quickly people can fall off the map. So then you've got that thing of like, I'm. I'm not meeting people that I really like. I'm being rejected. There's a great line from the movie Swingers where he's like, I, you know, he goes to a house party and he gets rejected by somebody and he's not over his ex yet, and he's like, I'm getting rejected by people who aren't half the person my ex was. And it's. That's like a particularly painful thing. It, like, adds insult to injury when we feel like the people we're getting rejected by aren't even as good as the person that our ex was. And it's like, what am I doing? What are we doing here? This is so depressing. And it just sends people back to that feeling about their ex. But I find it useful to frame it through the lens of anxiety because it actually allows us to get some space from identifying with the thought itself. The thought is, I'll never be happy again. I'll never meet someone that great again. But that's an anxious line of thinking, and it's so black and white, it makes no space for the possibilities of your life. Or that happiness will. Your. What you even call happiness now will evolve. You know, your idea of what happiness looks like and the way it looked with your ex, you're not the same person you were back then. So your. I like. I think sometimes we keep thinking about an example and we don't even realize that our version of happiness is out. What we think of as happiness is different from what we used to think of as happiness, but we're still living in that old model. So I'm curious from both of you, what's a line of thinking? Because I have more. But I want to know what's the line of thinking that you find really helpful when it comes to this idea of not comparing or struggling to get over an ex? Never feeling like you're going to find anyone better because it's a very understandable thing, right? Let's just stop for a moment before you answer and go, what are people feeling here? I've never felt like that. I haven't felt like it since. No one is making me feel it anymore. I haven't had that feeling. And. And my ex was awesome. They had amazing qualities, and they were rare and unique and special, and for a minute or a while they were mine. And then I lost them. And I have not met anyone that good since. Or it may be even close that it feels like I summited the mountain and I don't have the ability to get up to the top ever again.

I've had that feeling before. That feeling of that person was so special, and what we had was so special. Because I think when you truly fall in love with somebody, not just you really like them, or if that's infatuation, when you actually feel like you really love somebody for who they are, they feel like home. They're a form of home, right? And so when that's taken away from you, it feels like being thrusted back out into the cold. And what we miss is that feeling, that sensation, that kind of comfort that we get from feeling at home with a person. And they know us. And you, you know them and you know, you have your things that you like to do together, your in jokes, all of those. All of those things. And, you know, when I've been in that situation, the thing that helped me the most personally was to recognize after a while that that capsule of time between me and that person was exactly that. It was a moment in time. And that a year on, two years on, we had both gone like this. And for anyone who's not watching, I'm, you know, making the deviation sign with my hands. We'd gone in completely different directions. I had become a different person. They had become another different person of their own. And that becomes more and more true as the months and the years start to pile on. And then before you know it, what you're really missing is a memory of a feeling that you felt in a moment that belonged to that capsule of time. It's not that person. And for me, anyway, I found that to be very helpful because I recognized that the love I felt for them and I desired to feel again for another person didn't belong to them. It belonged to this desire to be in that space, to be in that. In that kind of loving relationship. It wasn't actually anything to do with that person, it just so happened to have attached itself to that person because in that moment, that's where it found its home. And, you know, the other thing that I think is helpful is when we lose somebody like that, we go, they were responsible for my happiness. And we forget our part to play in the relationship. We've said this a million times. You know, you were 50 of that relationship. Like, it wasn't that they were 100% of it and you were just hitching on for the ride. You were 50 of that relationship. And your ability to be 50 of that relationship means that you are a traveling show. You get to take that 50 with you. You get to pour that love and that creativity and that closeness and that everything. You get to pour that into a different person. And I think sometimes we just completely disempower ourselves in those situations.

If you're someone who listens to this podcast, chances are confidence is something that you really want to work on. You're probably also working on your relationship with yourself. You probably also have emotional patterns that you want to improve on, like over obsessing, over analyzing, overthinking, anxiety, self doubt. These are all things that I work on for two days with people in my retreat, which is happening in October on the 18th and 19th. It's the only time it's happening this year. I don't want you to miss it because if you miss it, you'll have to wait a whole other year to come to this event. And if you're listening to this going, I can't travel to be with you in Miami for this event, Matthew, you don't have to. I have created a virtual ticket that means you can do it from wherever you are in the world. And I'll even give you access to two weeks of the recordings so that if you can't watch it on the actual weekend itself, you still have two weeks to digest everything we do on that weekend. It is the most powerful thing I do. Not nearly enough of you have experienced it. And I wanted to make it so that every single one of you could experience the best program I have. Tickets are available@retreat access.com and if you get your virtual ticket or an in person ticket, either way, before September 30th, I'm also throwing in 90 days of my love life coaching program completely free. That means after the retreat is done, you'll still have me as your coach every month. It means you'll have my entire roadmap for finding love. And it means you'll have unlimited access to Matthew AI which is like having me in your pocket to ask a question anytime you need over those 90 days. Go to retreat access.com, grab your ticket, and I will see you on October 18th. I love this idea of us being 50% of the relationship because actually reminds us that we are the source of so much of the magic in our lives. And it. It gives someone far too much power to think that, like, they were responsible for the magic in our lives. And you can't, by the way. You literally can't give anyone or anything that much power. You can't, because life changes too much. Like, we're going to go through many different changes in life. We're going to change where we live. You know, we're going to lose people, friends are going to change, jobs are going to change. So many things are going to change in the course of our life, not just who we're in love with or who we spent, you know, who we have a relationship with. You can't make any one thing responsible for the magic in your life. I think that a master key to happiness is adaptability. And adaptability is being able to be a source of magic in your own life, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, whoever you're with. And that, to me, the happiest people in life are the people that are able to see the situation they're in and to find the magic in. That is why I talk. You know, I told the story in my new book, Love Life, about Billy's hat. And I told the story of our cousin Billy, who. And you know this, Steve. Billy's superpower is finding the good in whatever he's doing.

Yeah.

And not just the good, but, like, he always has a way of seeing whatever he's doing as the best. Like, whatever he's doing, it's like, the best thing.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. He always has a reason why. Like, I've picked the best Airbnb. This place is amazing. I love it. It's perfect. Like, any situation he's in, it's like he's like, this is where the party is.

That's exactly it. This is where the party is. That's a great way of saying it, Steve.

And I actually think it combats what I see is so many people to succumb to nostalgia. And. And I think nostalgia is, like, everywhere in our culture. And people do it with relationships as well. Like, I've heard people describe their great love. Like, that was my great love. There's even stuff on, like, Twitter and stuff where people Show a picture of, like, a young couple, and they're like, oh, this was that. Every guy has that woman like this. He fumbled at 20 and he could never recreate it again.

Oh, do you know, there's a. There's a song that's. That is played in our gym. It's a country song. And whenever I hear it, it's a. It's like, ostensibly, it's a very sweet song, but the. Every time I listen to it, I can't help but cringe. And I actually like the song. But it's someone out there is going to be a country fan who knows exactly what song I'm talking about. But the lyrics basically go. They say he's, like, singing to a woman, and he's saying, you can marry whoever you want. You can go on to live whatever life you want. You can do everything. But you'll never be like, whoever they are. And whatever you do, you'll never be 22 with me. Like, with me, like, you're. Nothing in your life will ever be that moment when we were 22 and it was you and me.

Right.

And whenever I listen to that, it. To me, it reeks of, like, the person who's still talking about, like, high school being the best days of their life.

Yeah.

And I'm like, these should be the best day. Whatever you're in right now should be the best days of your life. This shouldn't be. And I'm not talking about, like, okay, you. You just are literally going through a tragedy in your life right now or whatever. That's different. We have acute pain in our life that happens in certain moments. But you should always be playing for the best days of your life now. It can't be like you're harking back to some time, and it can't be that you're continuously harking back to some person.

Yeah. And you probably. You had an intensity then. You were young. It probably felt new, you know, I think it's like propaganda. Like, romantic propaganda. And people do this with, like, nostalgia for the 90s. Like, even people who didn't live through the 90s. And I'm like, loads of stuff was shit about the 90s. Like, they show someone's old bedroom and like, oh, this is the night. And I'm like, the TVs were massive and clunky and bad. Do you remember?

You used to touch the TVs and they would give you a. Yeah.

And certain stuff was so much slower to work if you had to use 90s technology. Now you'd be in pain at how slow and annoying it would all be to use. But of course, we all have, like, some warm, cozy feeling if we see an old bedroom and someone's playing with an N64 and, like, in their little cozy 90s bedroom with their boy band posters. But it's like that. That's still just a fantasy. And I think people do this with relationships as well, where it is like, you, you are a guy. Winch talks about this. You are so bad. We are so not good at remembering the bad. And the past always seems easier, rosier, less stressful than it was. You forget the things about that person that made them difficult to live with. You forget the inconsistent behavior. You forget the ways they might have been manipulative or appalled at your emotions. And that's why it felt intense, because it was push, pull today. Oh, they like me today. They don't. There would be all these things about that relationship that might have not been healthy, might have been difficult. And I think people often are falsely trying to replace someone else. I see this a lot of, like, the new people don't have the qualities my partner, my last partner had or that great partner. And I'm like, a new person will be new. They are not gonna. It's not Top Trumps. It's not like they were 8 out of 10 in this. I need next person to be an 8.5 or the same. It's like, they're gonna have good things your old partner didn't have that are gonna be amazing. They're gonna have some things they're gonna lack some things that your old partner had. They're not gonna be the same in intelligence, height, job, what they, how they treat their family, their blah, blah, blah. They're going to be a completely different package. And if you don't go in appreciating that, you're going to miss everything great about that person and that relationship, and you're always going to be playing this foolish game. In my opinion of trying to, like, the next person has to have all the things my last partner had and these other things as well. I just don't think love works like that.

I don't think life works like that. Like, life is change. Okay? I really think that we have to. We have to get our heads around this. Like, life is change. Like, things in life are going to change. You can't. We. You can't go through life constantly holding on to the way something used to be. You know, you can't. If you had more money in your bank account five years ago. You can't hold on to, like, what it felt like. To have more money in your bank account is pointless. This is. Life changes, everything changes. Everything is always changing. And it is. It really. I really think that at a certain point, living in the memory of a. Of an ex and the pain and the heartbreak and, oh, I, you know, I can't find anyone as good as them. It actually becomes a way of dishonoring the fact that you're alive right now. Like, you are alive. It's fucking crazy. Like, you're alive. You won't be alive forever. In fact, there's an app. There's an app. Who. A friend was just telling me about this last night. Jim, he sent it to me. There's an app that he has on his home screen. I forget what it's called, but it basically shows you how many years you have left.

What? Yeah, that's horrible.

Based on, like, you just plug in your, like, general health, your age, your, like, whatever.

Oh, my God.

And it basically says, like, on average people with your situation, you know, like, where you are and live till X. And like, let's say I don't know what his was, but let's say it was 80. On the screen, it shows you a series of dots. And it's the dots that are like crossed out or red, I can't remember, are the ones you've already lived. And the dots that are still left are the years you have left. And when you see them represented as dots, dots on a screen, this friend of. Of mine was, you know, is 46. When you see them represented as dots on a screen, like, that makes you, like, it makes your heart jump.

That's a horrible app. You're not allowed to download it because it's going to give you anxiety.

His is, you know, he's. He's using it as a. As a memento mori, like, as a reminder of death. Like, that's it. But. But it, My God, is it effective? And when you look at that, you can't not think. He said he looks. He likes the fact that at the end of a year, another one of those dots disappears. And he said, like, it forces him to ask himself, am. Like, am I actually doing things that are important right now? How am I spending my time? What are the conversations I'm having with people I love? Like, what does that look like? And he said, I think everyone should have this because it is painful. It is painful, but it forces us to confront our mortality and therefore how precious the time we have Actually is. And if you're not confronting that, you're not paying attention. And I would argue that when we get stuck in a loop about someone who's not around anymore, like, as in, they don't want us, they've moved on, they're no longer romantically a part of our life, when we get stuck in a loop about that person, it's actually a form of not paying attention to how precious your life is. And the time you have left, you're willing to throw away that time thinking about ruminating about this person. And by the way, I get what the thing that goes off in people's heads when you say this is like. Yeah, but literally the people I'm meeting aren't as good as my ex. Okay, but. But it's not about your ex anymore. It's like if you had 100 grand in the bank five years ago, and now you have 10, and you're like, but it's objectively not as good having ten grand in the bank. Okay, fine. Even if that's true, what are you going to do today to make the most of your life? What does it look like to make the most of your life today? Like it. That's the only question. What does it look like for me to make the most of my life today?

And I. I think we have to have compassion towards ourselves, because I think what often happens when we really, really love someone is we put our happiness on another person, and when they disappear, our happiness disappears with it. And I think it's a very strong telltale sign that we have done that. If we can't get over somebody, because it's almost like they were. My happiness resided in that relationship and in that person. And that's a very painful thing to feel.

Yeah, but that. That is like that kind of love, right? Where you. Where you make someone that important, there's a real, like, force behind that. There's a huge energy behind that. Okay. So if you just take that and you go, that's in the way. That's a powerful thing on its own, is the fact that there's that much energy for you put behind loving someone. Amazing. But now the, The. The. The object is no longer there. You're not able to channel that towards that person anymore. Except it's still going there. That person's no longer there, but it's still being channeled towards that person. I think that that same energy we have to. It almost has to become a kind of defiant energy, like that person is. That person's not there anymore. And Maybe they're literally still around and not choosing you. Like, at a certain point, that energy has to become a kind of like, fuck this.

Yeah.

Like, fuck this. This is my life. Like, who's that important? Like, who is that important? You're. Honestly, your ex was fine. They weren't a God. There's other great people. Your ex. You did not have a monopoly on awesome people in this life because that one person you dated had some cool qualities. Like, and that person did not have a monopoly on chemistry with you. Like, it's nonsense, but it. We have to have a bit of a defiance about this.

Yeah.

Like, if it needs to turn into a fuck you, let it turn into a fuck you. And I don't mean from a, like, place of wishing them bad. I mean, just like, fuck you. You don't. I'm not gonna give you this amount of energy. Like, you don't get my new energy. I, I. To me, life is too precious. Like, life. I keep saying it, but I really mean it. Like, life is lost. Life is change. You're gonna lose so much. Like, we're all gonna lose so much. And again, you don't have a monopoly on. If you're missing your ex right now, you don't have a monopoly on loss. Like, people lose so much. And there's we. When we lose, we grieve. We grieve, and it's necessary. We must grieve. We have to grieve. But at a certain point, it's like, I think it's important to get to a place where we go, I'm not special for having lost. There's nothing unique about my situation. People lose all the time. Every single day, people lose. Okay, you had an ex that decided they didn't want to be with you anymore. Someone else lost their ex to a car accident. And what's the choice? Move forward. You. At a certain point, you move forward. You have to. You have to. It becomes a decision because it's like, I'm. I'm still here now that, like that, that, you know, what was it? There's that moment in Hamilton where Eliza is. Or not Eliza. Who. Who is the person he marries? Eliza.

I think it's Angelica.

No, it is Eliza. It's Eliza. You know that final song where she says, like, you know, she grieved, but then she says, I, I stopped wasting time on. She said, I stop wasting time on tears. I live another 50 years after he dies. And then she starts talking about her story, her narrative. Like, everything she did with those extra 50 years that she got. And that's what the final. That final moment of Hamilton is about, what she did. You know, the whole of Hamilton is about Hamilton. Right? But then it's like, this is what Eliza did. Like, I could have cried the rest of my life, but instead I stopped wasting time on tears. I lived another 50 years. This is what I did. And the. There's something so fucking tragic about living your life, thinking about a person, especially if that person has decided that they don't want to be with you.

That's why I think with anything in life, you eventually. It is a cliche, but it's like it becomes a choice. It's not. If there's a thing you're stuck on, a failure, a moment, a heartbreak. Like, I feel lucky to have actually gone through a few heartbreaks, big heartbreaks in my life, because I feel the first one, you think, how will I get over this? Like, it feels like the world's ending. And you think, how am I gonna move on from this person? And having done it a few times, I can. There's a point where you go, it's not my first rodeo. I actually know this feeling. And I know at a certain point it does become for A, it just does get better. But B, it actually, at some point becomes this decision. And sometimes it comes of righteousness. Like, I need to do this for me. Sometimes it just comes from, I've had enough. I'm bored of feeling this way. Sometimes it just comes from, like, I need a change. I need. I need to get back out there. I need to explore something new now and put this away. But it is kind of liberating to know at some point it actually does become a decision. Not. I'm just gonna wait and hope that I'll eventually, like, stop thinking about them or stop obsessing. Almost like the more you obsess, the more you become fixated.

Yeah. And the fixation, all it does is magnify and magnify and magnify and magnify whatever good qualities they had, instead being present with the good qualities of the people that are actually available to you in your life and, you know, it becomes a real disservice to the people that are actually available to us. What we do when we continue just to magnify and glorify these traits from this person in the past, for one thing, the person in the present is here. Like, if there's a person who's here and they're choosing you, like, that should be valued. They should be given far more waiting.

Yeah.

Than the person who's like, you know, oh, so special, but they don't even want you, they don't need you in their life. Like, how special is that? We, we do a real disservice to the people that are in this life. And, you know, it's. It. We have to start. It's like that, you know that moment in Inception where it's like Joseph Gordon Levitt is like shooting the gun in the dream and Tom Hardy comes up next to him and he's like, you need to dream a little bigger, darling. You know, and he gives it and he has the big, you know, gun, the launcher, rocket launcher. It's like you, you know, you need to dream a little bigger here. You need to use your imagination. The life is what you want it to be. Life is what you make. It is your. Your imagination is really going to be so limited that you think the only love that is available to you that's actually core and exciting and, and fun and exhilarating is in the past. Like, that's your. You have to dream a little bigger than that. You have to have more imagination than that.

And the coolest thing about life is you get to create so many new stories and that I find just. I love it when I hear about someone who, you know, do you know Dr. Brian Cox, the physicist?

Yeah.

Like, he originally was in like a one hit wonder band in like the 80s. What was their song? Was it Things Can Only Get Better? He was in D Ream. But like, everyone knows Dr. Brian Cox now is this really cool physicist, interesting guy, but he had this whole, like, you know, Burning Bright and the rise and fall of like a, you know, B list pop band that he was in and that if he'd chosen it, he could have always had this story about like, I could have been in a big band, but it didn't work after our first big single. But like, completely new story is completely interesting. He's also a physics major, has a cold career as a physics communicator, is like, you know, a kind of Carl Sagan physics writer that came way, way later. But it's like that's choosing to start a new story. And I think we get so many chances to start new stories in our life in love, you know, but how many people do, you know, they stick on one failure, they stick on the one opportunity. The, the thing I missed. I think that is a tragedy when people just decide, my story's done now.

I love it. I couldn't, I could not agree more. Write to us. Podcastthewhussey.com Let us know your thoughts. Let us know if anything shifted for you so far in this conversation. Guys, there is something I know for sure, and that is that the truths that you're hearing in this episode are things that need massive amounts of repetition. They may be making you feel a little better right now, maybe a lot better. That's a wonderful thing. But what I know is that there will be a time 24 hours from now, a week from now, a month from now, where those feelings will revisit you. What we have to do is wage war against those feelings. We have to keep reminding ourselves of the truth that you're connected to right now by listening to this episode. And I know of no better way to do that than to have me by your side 24 hours a day, whenever you need me to remind you of the truth. Now, how could you possibly get that through Matthew AI? Matthew AI is my digital mind that you can call or text any time of day for advice, questions, feedback on a situation you're going through, practical strategies on what to do next, or just emotional support to help you process and make your way through heartbreak so that you come out the other side of it. If you are not using it, you're missing out on what is literally one of the best things we have ever created. You can find it and ask any question you like right now@askmh.com in fact, my suggestion is that you literally think of something that this episode brings up for you, something you'd like to talk about, or a question that you would ask me right now if you were sat at this podcasting table with us. Take that question and go and ask it of Matthew AI right now@askmh.com and by the way, you even get a few free minutes to try it out. So if you just want to try it and see how insightful and healing it can be, go try it now. AskMH.com. We have a Love Lifeline caller. This is where one of our Love Life members leaves us a voice note and asks a question. And I'm excited.

I'm ending a 17 year marriage which I could have ended several years ago. So I feel I've been alone for a while and of course I met someone and everyone is like, don't, don't date anyone. But I feel I've been. I've been in a place where I've felt alone. But everyone says I need more healing, so I'm not sure how to approach this. Of course there's legalities to it in certain states. I live in a state where it doesn't matter, but I don't feel a paper binds me. So my question is how to navigate this.

I. I mean, I think you. You have to really connect to. You know, it's true. You could be in a very different place than someone who, let's say, got blindsided in a breakup and someone just broke up with them and they're heartbroken, and then in the state of utter heartbreak, they go and meet someone a week later and start a rebound relationship, like, would obviously be inadvisable. But, you know, for you, if you're like, I should have done this way sooner, like, my time is precious, I deserve to be happy. I've met someone who I really enjoy, who makes me happy. Like, I'm that. I think that's for you to decide. I don't think that's for anyone else to look at from the outside and say, you know, you. You just separated from your husband. Like, this is too soon. You know, where you've been in your head for a long time, and you said, I think it's been years of feeling like this is wrong. So it sounds like you have moved on, and in some ways, you'd already moved on from this a while ago. I think the key is just to ask yourself, is there anything that my friends are saying that resonates with me on a deep level? Is there anything they're saying that points to a truth, or is this just coming from a place of they're trying to protect me, but ultimately they don't know the state of my mind and that I've been ready to meet someone new and to be happy in a new way for a long time. So I don't think you should over obsess over what everyone else is saying. Why I do think is you should really pay attention to. There's something that happens to a lot of people. I've coached many, many people, thousands of people who have left marriages or gone through a separation where they've been left by somebody. And an extremely common phenomenon is they go out and they meet somebody else, and it feels extremely exciting in comparison to the relationship they've just had. It feels passionate, it feels sexual. Because often those marriages that break down haven't been sexual in a long time. There was a real absence of validation. So they meet someone new, and that person gives them lots of validation. It's exciting. You know, it's all the things that their marriage lacked, or I should say, it's many of the things that their marriage lacked. It's not all. And what happens is they pay so much attention to the excitement and the validation and the sex and the fun of it and the feeling, chemistry again and all of that. And by the way, the connection, because someone can be speaking your language, you know, I got divorced a year ago and blah, blah, blah, and you're like, oh my God, they get it. And we both get it. And it's like, feels like if there's connection, connection to, then it's like you're really in trouble. But what the. The people who come out of marriages and wind up in those situations often get their hearts broken really, really badly. I've seen it thousands of times. They get truly heartbroken in the space of nine months or 18 months because they come to realize this person is. While there's chemistry and a feeling of connection and all of these wonderful feelings, this person is actually not in the same place as them. This person's just having fun. This person has no intention of building anything. This person has no desire to get into anything serious. But they will happily kind of play house for a bit and they will happily treat you as their partner, you know, as their girlfriend or their boyfriend or whatever. They will, they will go there with you. But there's really no intention behind it whatsoever. And so the thing I caution you against is less about what your friends are saying, like, have you healed? And more about pay very close attention to whether what you're getting here is what you're actually looking for. And if you're just looking for some fun right now, and. And that's that, then great. But if you're coming out of this going, I want to find my next person, be very careful of the people that you will meet when you go out there and you're starved of affection, chemistry and excitement and sexuality because they will grab you in all of the right ways, they will push all of the right nerves, and you can get really, really connected to those people only to find out that they are no closer to wanting a real relationship than an 18 year old starting in college. Anything you want to add?

No, I think it's great.

You guys are on fire.

You're on fire, Rod.

No, thank you. No, seriously, you were both saying this, what you just said everything before. It's just so. I think it's. It's just really profound. So. Yeah. Well done.

Thank you.

Thank you. You're welcome.

We got a lovely email in from somebody who you and I met at LAX airport. Oh, yeah, In Los Angeles. So we met these Two lovely, lovely young women who came up to me and said hi. And then they said hi to you and they were a big fan of you. And it was.

We just come off, I think them to like an 11 hour flight.

It was really funny because they were two sisters and they had just landed too. I think they were on our flight, actually.

Oh, really?

But they had just landed too and they were like, I can't believe that I've met you right now. I am so gross. I hate the fact that, like, they're like, we've always wanted to meet you guys. And I can't believe we're meeting you right now in this state. And I was like, well, at least we're even.

That's how I felt. That's how I felt. Yeah, I was very scraggly.

And yeah, when you get to LAX from London, you feel rough. Yeah, it's a long flight.

I'm like four ginger beers in three bags of crisps. Bloated. Bloated. So anyway, we actually got an email from one of them to our podcast email address. Otherwise I would. If this came to us personally, I wouldn't be reading it. But it came to our podcast email. She said, hannah, this is. This is one of the sisters said, I met you briefly at LAX yesterday with my sister. It caught me off guard and I walked away regrettably realizing I didn't say what I really wanted to. Thank you. I've been following your work for years and it has made a meaningful impact on my life. I even asked myself, what would Matthew Hussey do? Say in my own situations? I deeply admire you and how you navigate love and life all with self worth, clarity, and most importantly, kindness. It was also lovely speaking with Audrey. Both of you are pristine reflections of one another. So that was a beautiful phrase.

Lovely phrase.

Wanted to take this moment to share my gratitude since it's been on my mind. Wishing you all the best, Hannah. Hannah, thank you. Thank you so, so much. I really, I read that email and I was just so moved and touched by it. And the fact that you went away and decided to write to us after the fact is really special. So thank you. And we thought you were both just lovely. We walked away saying it at the time.

We also had a couple of comments on our last episode. Episode 3, 1, 2. The number one reason they keep losing interest. Aria said, Steve, sleeves are amazing. Keep them up. Truly love this episode too. The authenticity makes me smile. Much relatable content in this one.

Do you think that she was talking about your literal sleeves or the beloved and well known segment of this podcast, Steve Sleeves.

Who can say, okay, where are these comments coming from? Danielle on Instagram said, just want to add that I love the Steve Sleeves theme song and it's a classic.

They're coming from Steven. Steven Spring.

We also got clarification. We mentioned on the last episode, what animal is Philoctetes from Hercules? Oh, yeah, I said fawn, which is a half man, half goat. But that was in Roman mythology. Apparently in Greek mythology it is a satyr.

A satya, of course.

And it's very annoying because Roman and Greeks have different names for the same thing. Like the Romans just stole all the Greek stuff. And then like we have a different name for our God of war, we have a different name for our half man, half goat. So it's a satyr, not a faun.

I'm so annoyed that I didn't know that.

I didn't know either.

Well, there you go, Satya.

He'll be thinking about that all night.

Now that's me ruminating for the next date.

Visor on the Three Month Curse says you.

Thank.

Three months is often when the mask slips. People stop trying so hard and you get to see the real patterns of their behavior. I don't think of it as a curse. It's clarity. It's the point where you learn if the connection can grow into something deeper or if it was just surface level. Honestly, I'd rather find that out of three months than waste a year with the wrong person.

That's really good. Let's change the language from three Month Curse. For those of you wondering what we're talking about, we did an episode on the three Month Curse. Let's change it to three Month Clarity. It's really good. I like it a lot. Who said that?

Date visor.

Date visor. I think that's a really intelligent comment. I love it. Before we move on to so many people's favorite moment in the Love life podcast, we would love to ask you a little favor. If you would go over to wherever you listen to this podcast and leave us a review, it would mean the world to us. It helps other people find out about the podcast. It shares the love, it tells people what you get out of it, and it just, it helps us get our message out there. We want more listeners. We want more people to experience this podcast. And one little way that you can help with that is by sharing with other people what you think about the podcast. So if you have a minute, go over to itunes or wherever you listen to your Podcasts and leave us a little review. It would mean so very much. Okay, it's that time. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, Steve Sleeves.

Cue the theme song.

Don't be bereaved. You know that we can't leave without another episode of Steve Sleeves. Steve Sleeves. As I would say, one of the weirder theme songs out there.

Oh, it's all weird.

Like, lyrically, it's quite like. It starts with don't be bereaved.

Yeah.

I mean, that's an odd first line.

Yeah. Our producer, David, has a lot to answer for.

You played the guitar, Harrison, for the theme song, so you're due half the credit for when people say they love the theme song to Steve Sleeves.

David likes to add some curveballs in there.

Well, let's see what curveballs we get today in Steve.

So we're gonna play Heal or Prod. Okay. I'm gonna give you some things one might do after a relationship. Is it healing or is it prodding the wound?

Okay.

Okay. I deleted every photo of us because I don't need reminders.

Heal.

Yeah.

Heal every photo. Yeah, that's okay.

Well, like, you deleted them, like, throw. I think getting every photo out of sight is necessary, but you don't necessarily have to go into your icloud and delete every photo that you've ever had together. I don't think.

I think it's also fine if you do.

Yeah, I think it's fine if you do, but it's like, it's more about the things that catch you off guard.

Yeah, I unfollowed them, but occasionally check their profile just to know what's the.

Opposite of the heel?

Prod.

Prod.

As a prod, I check it every now and again just to know what.

Have they moved on? They got anyone?

Yeah.

That is probably MC Prodding.

Yeah, that's a lot of prodding. It's true. And I think. I really think stalking your ex on social media is one of the unhealthiest things you can do for moving on. It's really tempting, stalking your ex. Really bad.

Don't do it.

Because also, like, your brain, we're not supposed to see what our exes are up to. That's what, like, people don't realize is that we're not supposed to have access to people's lives in the way that we have Natural. It's very unnatural. And I just think that it is such a. Yeah, it just. It messes you up, and I think it actually keeps you stuck on people longer than you need to be. Because they feel like they're so close and they're still in your life just because you're kind of checking up on them.

I love it when people act like, you know, like, I just can't avoid them. It's just impossible. And whatever. I'm like you. I. There are really, really famous people that you never see or hear about, and that is because your algorithm isn't serving them to you. Like, it's not. Nothing is coming up. I have no idea for the last year what Leonardo DiCaprio has been doing.

You didn't even know that Taylor Swift got engaged.

I mean, everyone knew that.

You have to tell me.

Yeah, I told you.

Huh? There you go. If I can avoid. If I can not know about the Taylor Swift announcement, you can not know about your ex.

You text your ex just to check if they heard that Taylor Swift got engaged.

Oh, my God. I didn't even know that was coming up.

No, it wasn't. But healing or prodding?

El Pradito.

Okay, what about you reach out to your ex. You haven't spoken in quite a while. You want to reach out to apologize for your part in things during the breakup? Healing or prodding? You both don't have any contact now. Dust is settled.

What's your intention behind reaching out? You got to ask yourself that. Are you doing it because you genuinely want to take accountability, because it's weighing heavy on you, or are you doing it because you are hoping that maybe they will, you know, you'll reconnect in some way? Or maybe they will, I don't know, say something back to you that's going to give you some kind of closure or.

Yeah, you must search yourself for the intention on that one.

It's. It's one. We get that people do ask, though. Should I, you know, message them? You know, it's been a couple months. I want a closure. I want to express some things. People do ask that.

Yeah.

But then I do think you've got to be really scrutinizing it. Like, can you do it and not look back and not engage again?

Also, you have to ask, is this. Do I owe. Is it that I owe them an apology for this? Because there might be things you. You, like, feel you owe an apology for, but you don't owe an apology for, like, just being insecure sometimes or being like. It's not like. Those don't warrant you having to go back and be like, I just want to say I'm really sorry for, like.

Yeah, it's a really good point.

It's to be careful not to use. Like, I have. I owe them an apology as an excuse to connect because you don't owe someone an apology on everything.

Okay.

Are you both in a break? You both did your. Like, they did things you didn't like. You did things they didn't like. The relationship's over. It's not like. It's not like, the chances of them having gone away as, like, a wounded animal that you need to go and, like, have closure within that way are probably pretty low, I think.

Prod.

I stayed friends with their sibling because we had our own bond.

Oh, sneaky.

My sister did that once. She stayed friends with an ex of mine.

Oh. How did you feel?

Well, I broke up with him, so I didn't mind, but.

Did you feel a bit betrayed?

No, no, because I. She. She was like. She just really got on with him and was very much like, are you okay with this?

You weren't sitting there heartbroken?

No, no, no, no. So I think it's a bit different, but. Sorry. It's completely different.

I think you have to be really careful with that. I'm not saying you. You absolutely shouldn't, but, like, you. Sometimes you do have to take space from that person's community and like, the. The per. The people that are closer to them than you. Sometimes you just have to. You, like in a breakup, in order to get over someone, sometimes you have to make sacrifices. And I don't even think of it as they get someone. I think of it as, like, I am making sacrifices in service of my happiness and I think holding on to everything. If it's okay, if you feel. If you genuinely feel like you can have a relationship with their sibling with a really close one, but let's say you can have a relationship with their sibling and it's not going to re. Trigger you all the time. Fine. But I bet it's going to re. Trigger you all the time.

So I agree.

You can have love for their sibling and say, it pains me to take space and to be distant from you right now, but it's what I need in order to get over this person, your brother or your sister. Because I just can't. I can't be with you without associating you with them and having them put on my mind. Like, you can. You can. You can create distance with love.

Yeah. But especially. Or if there's like this with yourself, if there's like that mutual friend and you know, they keep seeing them and they're gonna. You're just like, I don't I don't want to see that mutual friend who I know is spending a lot of time with them. You know, I mean, it just creates ugly feelings.

And I also just think that sometimes we stay close to the people around them we want to report. We really want, like, to maintain some proximity.

Yeah.

You know, so you stay friends with their mother or their sibling or their someone. Because it's like a way of still being connected.

Sure.

It's prod adjacent.

I told someone new about my ex to explain why I have trust issues. Is that honest vulnerability or a bit of a prodding?

It's not sexy first date talk.

It's not sexy first date talk.

Yeah, but hang on, hang on, hang on. Yes, but if. If your ex did something really bad, and it was a traumatizing thing, and it actually, you know, then went on to shape a lot of the decisions you made over the next few years. How you felt about yourself, how you felt about relationships, maybe how you show up in relationships. I think. I think it's okay to share that you.

But the way you just did it was having, like, lots of processing later and from a place of, like, real, like, calm. And this is how it has.

It's part of my life. Yes.

And that's. I don't think that's the same as, like, the. The kind of what I think of as excessive vulnerability with someone you just met where you basically tell them that you have trust issues because your ex screwed you over. Like, I don't think someone you just met should necessarily have that information. Yeah.

Fair.

I don't know if it lives in the world of prod, but I. I remember going on a date with someone when I was in my 20s, and on a first date, I could just tell how angry she was at her ex.

Like, I've had that before.

I was like, she was just badmouthing her ex, but, like, with such energy behind it. And I was just like, oh, I'm getting out of here. Like, this is bad news. Like, I just knew. I knew instinctively, Like, I. This isn't for me. Because I was like, this is. He's gonna be on every date with us. Like, whether or not we. You even talk about him. I know he's in the room.

That's really funny.

I started writing letters or pages that I never intend to send just to get my feelings out about the relationship.

I think that's healed.

That's heal.

You know, once I was going through a heartbreak, and I wrote an unsent letter, and I wrote. I remember exactly where I was when I wrote it. I wrote it on my laptop, and I got all of my, like, most raw feelings out on paper. And it made me feel so much better. Like, I. So much better than I thought anything like that ever could. And I never sent it, obviously, but it was just. It was just the act of actually kind of, I don't know, just, like, purging all of those feelings out of me. I suppose that's why journaling is so powerful for people, but I think that's. I think that's actually a really good way to heal.

All right, well, I think we'll wrap it up there.

One more.

One more.

I like this one.

I went back to a cherished spot we loved Solo.

That's an interesting gray one. I think that could. It could be heal.

It can be taking a place back. If it's a place you go to be reclaiming, it can be reclaiming.

But you have to. The whole point of reclaiming. And this is what, you know, Guy Winch talks about in his book. I think it's called how to Fix a Broken Heart. He talks about the idea of. Of going back and reclaiming a place under a different meaning. And I think that's really powerful. But you. In order to do that, you can't go there and stare at the. The tree and wistfully, like, recount those memories by yourself.

No.

Reclaiming is like, go there with your friends and have a picnic.

Yeah.

And laugh and have the best time and create a new memory and reclaim that tree. Reclaim that patch of grass.

It's like if you go back to Paris after a breakup, but you do Paris with your. Your chums instead. Have a great time. It's like, oh, I don't now. Paris isn't associated with them.

Paris doesn't belong to you anymore.

Yeah.

I haven't heard the word chums so long.

That's why I threw it in there. All right, that's Steve. Sleeves. Keep them baggy, everyone.

Yeah, that was a good one. I enjoyed that one. Thank you. Stephen.

Leave me a comment on this video before you go. I love hearing from you. And by the way, if you're watching this and you really want to find love and you see other people around you pairing off and finding what you've been looking for for a long time, and you're feeling like, when's it going to be my turn? How might I be getting in my own way? Is there something I'm doing to sabotage my chances in this area? How can I finally find what I'm looking for. I am going to be helping people uncover their deeper patterns, understand their blind spots, and find what they're looking for this October at my retreat. If you haven't got a ticket yet, you can get your tickets@mhretreat.com and don't worry if you can't make it to be there in person In Miami with us, there is a virtual ticket that means you can participate in this event and get the content from it from wherever you are in the world. Go check it out@mhretreat.com grab your tickets and I can't wait to see those of you who are coming.