This Is Why Happy People STILL CHEAT In A Relationship... | Esther Perel & Matthew Hussey

If we are incredibly fortunate in life, there will be moments or a moment where we get to sit down and have a genuine conversation with our intellectual crush. The woman that I am about to introduce you to is that for me. Her name is Esther Perel. She wrote Mating in Captivity and most recently the State of Affairs. She has one of the most viewed head talks of all time on relationships. The hour that I sat and talked with Esther was one of the most interesting conversations I have ever had on relationships. In the section of this talk that I'm going to present to you today, we talk about infidelity, which I know is a highly charged issue for so many people. But what we're about to talk about, I believe, is essential viewing for anyone who wants to apply a more rational, kind and humanistic approach to one of the most taboo subjects in relationships. Without further ado, I present to you the wonderful Esther Perel. We have this narrative, so many of us, that happy people don't cheat. And you challenge that.

Yes.

And you say not necessarily true. And I thought to myself, if that's the case.

Is that how did you, that idea come across to to you?

For myself, I didn't have a largely emotional response, but here's what I imagined some of my audience may be feeling. If that's true, how can I ever relax? If even happy people in a relationship can cheat, where now is my barometer for whether or not I'm likely to be cheated on?

I think that when you enter a relationship, it is part of your awareness that such a thing could happen. You don't live with it. You hope it will not be, but it's not like it's far-fetched. We have to be alert, but alert in our awareness of that.

So the same way we're living, I live in LA, We pack a bag for an earthquake should it ever happen. But we don't sit here every day freaking out about a potential earthquake.

I mean, it's a strange thing to say. It's like it's a terrible thing. You imagine it won't happen. Our contract isn't based on this. You hope that the relationship is solid enough. You hope you can meet your partner's needs enough. But to make, to think, to live with the naivety that this is never gonna happen. No, you actually say this could happen and I'm going to do everything I can for that not to be the case. But I'm not going to live with the naivety that this is inconceivable. But that doesn't explain why even happy people cheat. And I don't want to say it's happy people cheat. I want to say it's people who are in happy relationships. People come to me. all the time. And they say, I love my partner very much. I'm having an affair.

Well, I thought one of the really empowering things you said in a way was, if I, we live in a society now where we're shamed for staying in an unhappy relationship, not shamed for leaving.

Yes.

And that if we're cheating instead of just leaving, that means there are parts of the relationship that are good enough that we want to salvage or that we don't want to hurt them.

But not even just about enough. Listen, some people cheat because they want out. Some people cheat because they are grandiose and entitled. And some people cheat in order to preserve their relationships. As weird as thought as that may actually be.

Because they know it will alleviate some desire they have or because they're self-sabotaging so that their partner will find out so they can have a more honest dialogue.

Both. Both. Or because they have tried to say something for a long time that was not being responded to. We want to say, why didn't you bring it up? If you're unhappy enough to cheat, you're unhappy enough to go. Seriously, it's much harder to stay than to leave, and to rebuild, and to see, and to take a crisis like any other major crisis, and to say, We will get through this. the truth is because a relationship is more than just what happens between the two of us. There's a whole system that depends on this relationship. It's a whole life. When you leave a relationship that's of years, you leave a life. And I don't always want to leave that whole life.

You said that you have to, with your partner, decide what the legacy of your affair will be.

Yeah.

Or their affair.

Yes.

For a woman who has been cheated on, How does she overcome the anger and the resentment that I have to grow and do something in response to something you fucked up?

Yeah.

Why is it half my job to create the legacy for what this will all mean? Now, I understand that is a very evolved point of view. If you've decided the relationship is important enough to stick in, then ultimately that's the way it is. But how do you overcome that anger from having to being put in the position where you're forced to grow?

First of all, you do not have to overcome all the anger. I think that you are perfectly okay when this comes up even two years later to still be utterly fuming. And then I say to him, you see this woman? This woman who is saying to you, How dare you do this? You took something that was ours and you brought that to this other person. This was for us. What the f are you doing? And I said to him, you, wanted a woman who fights for you? You got her. This is a woman. This is no longer just a mother who is taking care of her children. You wanted a woman? Here you have her. Now you need to be able to handle this. you know, that is not about being Pollyannish about it. She should, if she's, you know, there are certain things that you won't forgive. But that doesn't mean that you don't just say, when it comes to this, I don't forgive him. But in the rest of our life, the guy has still been really amazing. And he showed up when my mother was sick, and he showed up with my alcoholic brother, and he showed up when I had, when I got my, whatever issues that I was taking, you know, and the thing that really shows you the ones who can do this versus the ones on occasion you have to say the end is the end, you know, this is when I'm actually able to say you messed up here, but you actually still are a decent human being in other areas. And I am not erasing the whole thing. I don't think that because you did this you have destroyed everything we ever had. This truth does not extend to annihilate all of what we have built. And you don't judge an entire relationship by the affair. That is unfair to the marriage, unfair to the relationship, whatever it is, you know, if it married or not. It really puts this thing as if it stands to tell a bigger story than everything that preceded. You know, you've got people, they buried their parents together, they raised children, they have a handicapped child, they've gone through economic downturns, they've done so and this thing is going to become the ultimate truth of their relationship. I don't think it's fair to the relationship, and I don't think it's fair to the enormous investment that people have put in. That doesn't mean it's right. The last thing I will ever do is condone this, make this be the good, the right thing to do, but you get through it. You do get through it. Now. In an occasion, she will remind him and she will tell him, you know, I will never, never forget this. Don't worry. And I like when she has that fire. Yeah.

Yeah.

Because in a way, she's fighting for him. And if he can't handle her wrath, too bad. You wanted attention, you wanted to see if she cares, you got it. Now you have to deal with it. Stand up.

I really hope that you enjoyed that conversation on both an intellectual and a personal level. For anyone who wants to hear the whole thing, I look forward to presenting the full hour-long conversation to my Fast Track members inside the Fast Track program. In the meantime, for anyone who wants to dig deeper into Esther's work, please pick up a copy of her book. It is called the State of Affairs. Esther's is a voice that needs to be heard. She is a clear-headed thinker who applies an incredibly kind and rational approach to the human condition. And these aren't easy issues to talk about. I think it takes a brave voice to confront these kinds of taboos in life, like infidelity. She does it with such kindness and such nuance, and I'd love for you to hear her approach. Thank you for watching. Pick up a copy of the book and thank you to Esther for being part of this with me. I really appreciate you. And as always, I look forward to seeing you all next week.