What Dating an Emotionally Unavailable Guy Looks Like

That's Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible sneaking into the museum and dodging every laser in sight. We had this email in. I'm actually not going to name this person because they say a couple of things in the email that might, I think, mean they want their anonymity, even though she didn't actually ask for this to be anonymous. I'm going to err on the safe side here. She said, hello Matthew and the rest of Jams. Love the podcast. This may be a bit unorthodox to be asking for advice since I am a prominent male dating coach specializing in seduction and attraction. I do want to clarify here that This is a woman who coaches men. That's what she means by male dating coach. She's a dating coach for men. However, we all know that when things are too close to home, sometimes all we need is an unbiased opinion, coach or not. This is where you come in. You see, me and this guy have been seeing each other steadily about once or twice a week since the beginning of May. We're both busy, as I often give the same advice about the importance of staying busy so as not to contract oneitis. But this guy is different than your average bear. First off, he's a celebrity in his own right. In a certain sector of Hollywood, not going into detail, but he is a big, big deal. He values talented women and drive. to which my dating coach company has blown up in the last year, and he loves to hear all about it. Things have been going very well between us, but I could tell there's something there. A blockade of sorts. And I was right. About a month ago, he confided in me all of this intense trauma he went through during the pandemic and with his last relationship. Big deal stuff. Huge, because this guy is a big deal in his world. So his problems aren't just your typical problems. The girlfriend he was with for years was diagnosed with borderline and other severe mental illness that I don't want to reveal for privacy reasons. They even created television shows together. He claims he tried everything to keep the relationship from falling apart. But it did. A year and a half ago, she was his first love. This matched with other work-related traumas resulting in PTSD. Tears were shed in the conversation, and all in all, it was a really beautiful morning of us being completely vulnerable with each other. This is when I really started to fall for him. He's in lots of therapy and discusses his feelings well. which I love. I have secure attachment style. I know not to text him too much or too little. But the thought of what are we kept eating me alive. Two weeks ago, I asked him, what are you looking for in dating? I clarified by saying, Not that I feel any decisions need to be made now, but I will say that I'm getting in too deep for this to be a casual fling. And I asked him if dating could be a possibility in the future. He said yes. This is already a long email, so I'll try to cut this short. We had another conversation about it last week because in truth, I wanted to know if he was seeing other girls since I myself ended things with another guy and I genuinely don't feel like going on other dates. He clarified, if you're asking if I'm seeing anyone else consistently, Then no, I'm not. Which I don't know what that means exactly. The conversation basically led into him revealing that he's been putting off the what are we convo because of all of the trauma and PTSD surrounding his ex and the possibility of being a boyfriend. He says he knows it's unfair to me because I'm nothing like her, and he promised he will start bringing up dating again in therapy. I also am finding that many of our dates are during the week. He's met my friends twice. I've yet to meet his. He isn't bringing me into his life yet. Should I be worried? Or not yet? I don't want to give up on this guy. But how long do I wait? What do I do during this limbo time? It's not like it's been months and months and he's still not committing. But it's also feeling like this is a barrier we either need to cross together or the place I leave him behind. Do I create more space? What does it mean by being a challenge when you put it into practice? Is it too soon to move forward like this? Should I just let things be? Should I continue to date others or honor this feeling of desiring only him? From one coach to another, thank you.

There's so much there, isn't there? It's such an interesting email.

Jamison, I'm curious what your first reaction to this email is.

Why?

I don't know. I just, I feel like you will have a perspective on this.

I worry that my reaction is not as compassionate and sweet as both yours or Audrey's might be.

And that's why I'd like to hear it.

But Jamison's not worried he'll be more compassionate than me.

I think me and Steve might be pretty simpatico on this. I think, I just think this guy is so full of shit. Like this guy that is like feeding her all of this stuff about his PTSD and like his, I mean, and just the way that he's created this dynamic where she's framing it like he's just such a big deal. And I just, I mean, I don't know. I've talked to you guys about this before where it's like, I think people throw around the term narcissist too much, but if I had to bet my bottom dollar, I feel like this dude is probably a narcissist that she's hung up on. And it's forcing her to just really forget all of the advice that she would probably tell somebody else that she would be coaching.

I mean, Jameson with a swish.

Okay. You agree?

I don't know why my instinct was to go to you on this one.

But boy, am I glad I did.

But boy was I right. No, I just think that was really, really spot on. I don't know how to add to that without doing some reiteration. But to me, you hit the nail on the head. I don't like this guy just from listening to him secondhand. And it's not like she's even tried to paint a negative picture of him.

Quite the opposite. She tried really hard to paint a positive, compassionate picture of him. And I just feel like she's feeding into his narrative there.

I think she's just doing what everybody does when they think that they've stumbled across someone valuable and rare. You know, we do it. In this instance, she's obviously valuing the fact that he's a big deal in his own industry. And, you know, she mentions, like you say, the fact that he's a big, big deal quite a few times. So I think she's obviously, consciously or otherwise, decided that if she lets this go, she's not going to find something like this again. You know, I think people do it with looks, they do it with careers, they do it with everything. You know, you can meet someone who has an Eclectic, amazing social group. and you suddenly go, well, if I leave this person, I also will not find somebody who brings me into their life and does all the fun things that I get to do with them, or I'll never find someone who's as attractive as the person I'm dating. And so we then make these allowances because we just sort of elevate them and we tolerate all of their bad behavior. If he wasn't such a big deal, I wonder whether she would be putting up with half of his shit. If she thought that she could find another person like him. So I think there's a bit of overvaluing the wrong thing here just from reading it. And that's not to say that they don't have a really great time and a good connection. I just think that, you know, if somebody is saying to you, I mean, the bit to me that stood out where I was a bit like, oh, I don't like this guy, is when.

She... Do you mean his line about he's not seeing anyone else consistently?

Yes. That one, when she said, that was.

A classic male logic.

When she said, you know, are you seeing other people? And he said, if you're asking, it's the, if you're asking, if I'm seeing anyone else consistently, then no, I'm not.

That's Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible sneaking into the museum and dodging every laser in sight.

Exactly.

He's like, dun, dun, dun, dun.

What are you asking?

If you're asking...

I know you just asked a question. Now, if you're just asking that question...

If you're asking specifically, Am I seeing anyone else consistently? Even though you never used that word? Then absolutely no. I'm not.

You're my top bitch.

Am I seeing anyone? Semi consistently? Well, no.

Am I seeing anyone this weekend?

That you?

I have not seen yet.

Now that depends how you define weekend.

And that's a whole different conversation.

Anyway, we'll see.

Do you believe time is a construct? Because I do. Sorry, OJ.

No, but I... It's true though. It's true. The reason... It sounds harsh that we're making fun, but the reason we ask because, as you say, he's just completely dodged the question and he's left her feeling like she's somehow special in a very unspecial answer.

To be clear, we're not making fun of her. No, I know we're making fun of his logic.

I know, but I can just imagine hearing it if it was my question and I'd be sad.

No, of course. Listen, when we like someone, we're all hearing the truth. It doesn't just make us sad. It can make us angry, it can make us disappointed, it can make us upset. All of that, I understand and I have massive compassion for. Before you carry on with the video, I wanted to tell you about something really valuable for anyone who is struggling to move on from somebody right now. It's a free video training I did where I coached someone who is struggling with feelings for their ex. And this is applicable no matter what the situation was, whether you were dating them for months or years, this is going to help you build yourself back to a place of confidence. Whether it's having the confidence to reach back out to that person, but in a powerful high value way, or whether it's the confidence to move on from them once and for all. Check it out at moveonstrong.com It's a great training and it's completely free. Back to the video. I'm gonna call this person Lisa so that we have something to a name to actually use. Lisa, you have to suspect yourself anytime you write something like this or you have a conversation explaining the situation and you begin with the premise that, let me just caveat this by saying that they are a celebrity. And that, by the way, few people on this earth are dating celebrities because there aren't that many celebrities. But we could all be in the position of dating someone who is high status in a company, who is a successful entrepreneur, who has a lot of status in their particular field or their world. And if you start the conversation, which is a conversation ultimately around your needs not getting met, right? That's what this email is. My needs aren't getting met. I don't feel secure or safe. in this thing. I can't call it a relationship because we're not calling it a relationship between the two of us. I don't feel safe and secure in this. And that's one of the needs that I have, is the need for some sense of certainty that I'm actually investing in something under the same premise that the other person is. She doesn't feel that, which is why she has sent this email. My needs aren't being met. is at the core of this email. Now, when you start an email or a conversation that ultimately is about your needs being met, not being met, and it is pre-faced by, let me just start with, they're a big deal, they're a celebrity, they're a successful business person, they aren't renowned in their field, they are from an important family, whatever it may be. You are already setting up the justification for why your needs don't matter as much in this situation. And you're making a rod for your own back because that's exactly the logic this person may be relying on in order to get away with what they're getting away with. and it's exactly the logic you're using as to why you're going to let this person get away with things that you wouldn't let someone get away with in a normal relationship. Why is it that someone being a celebrity makes your needs matter any less? Why is that true for you? Ask yourself that question. why is it true, not just for him, because by the way, the fact that that could be true for him is a whole different problem, right? There are a lot of important people or famous people, whatever, who, whether consciously or they will never admit to it, but unconsciously do actually think other people's needs matter less than this. That's just the truth. Anyone that, that we have a friend who is, who deals with famous people a lot because he's a director. And he said, the problem with hanging out with famous people and being friends with them is that a lot of the time you end up realizing that it's always on their terms. It is always about what's good for them. And when you actually need something, you realize you don't have that much of a friendship. Of course, he wasn't talking about every single person who's famous, but there was a point being made that a lot of these people in these kinds of positions will act as if other people's needs aren't as important as theirs. So, but the bigger problem here is that you're subconsciously deciding that your needs don't matter as much because he's a celebrity, which is why you've allowed this justification of, you know, there's been a whole bunch of PTSD surrounding his ex and the things that he's been through with her and work and everything else. It's. And we've said this before, you, in any, in any situation where you're dating someone and they give you a logic. as to why they can't do certain things, why they can't commit to a relationship, why they have no time, why they can't ever meet our family, why they can't come to our side of town, and we always have to go to theirs. Someone may give you a watertight logic as to why that's true. And when they do, if you're an empathetic person, and if on top of that you throw in a healthy dose of, I really want them, then you will buy into that logic. And you'll even sell your friends on the logic. You'll sell people you know on the logic. Lisa is trying to sell us on the logic. And that means you've been converted. But the phrase that we've said in the past, which holds true today, this is not a piece of advice that I have ever thought to change. Because to me, it's just a recipe for finding the right relationship and avoiding unnecessary pain, is you have your reasons, but I have my reality. If my reality is that what you're giving me isn't enough, for me to be happy, then your reasons as to why that is don't really matter. In other words, I don't need to sit around and analyze whether you're in the right or the wrong for those reasons, whether you're being overly dramatic about this, quote, PTSD that you have from this situation. or whether it truly is this trauma that's going to take you years to get over before you're ready for a relationship, or whether you're just using it as an excuse because actually you're having your fun right now with people you're not seeing consistently enough to say that you're seeing people consistently. It doesn't actually matter to me which of those three things are true. All that matters is I'm somebody who this year, 2022, would like a relationship and you are not in a position to give me that. It doesn't, it's not about right and wrong, good and bad. It's about what are you actually giving me? Those are the facts. My reality determines how happy I am. Your reasons do not. And my reality is that I'm actually not getting from you what I want. And that's the conversation. If you ask, how do you, you know, one of the questions Lisa asks at the end is, what does it mean by being a challenge when you put it into practice? Lisa, I'm going to be brutal with you here. Let me tell you what it doesn't look like. It doesn't look like the conversation you had with him. where you said, what are you looking for in dating? And you said, by the way, this was two weeks ago, somewhere in this email, you said, it's not like we've been dating months and months, but you also say we've been dating for three and a half months. So you have been dating long enough for you to be asking this question and be uncomfortable still seeing them casually. But the way you phrased it to him was, what are you looking for in dating? Not that I feel any decisions need to be made now, which why did you say that? Why did you feel the need to qualify your question with that? And it's not that a decision needs to be made now about marrying each other, but it's perfectly okay for you to say, I need to know whether you actually are interested in seeing each other exclusively to see where this goes or whether you're still thinking you want to see other people. It's not unreasonable to say that to him, but you didn't say that. You said, not that I feel any decisions need to be made now. So you already gave up your power in that sentence because you already told him in that moment, I'm completely malleable. You don't need to decide anything. All I'm doing is hinting at a question, but I'm too afraid to make any stakes around that. You then say, not that I feel any decisions need to be made now, but I will say that I'm getting in too deep for this to be a casual fling. And could dating be a possibility in the future?

And him saying yes to that, by the way, I mean, he's saying- It's committing to nothing.

He's signing a worthless contract.

He's committing to nothing. It's, will you maybe in the future be interested in dating me exclusively?

It's like going to a market in London and going, Now, if I buy everything today, do you think that there is the possibility that at some point in the future, you may give me a discount. What's the. What's the barrow boy on the market gonna say? Yeah. No, of course. Yeah, of course, love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'll tell you what. Buy it all today, and at some point in the future, we'll have a chat.

I feel like we need to name this Cockney character. We'll call him Cockney Tom, because this is like your Tom Cruise Mission Impossible character.

I absolutely can commit at some point in the future to having a little chat.

Now, if you're asking me, but actually.

You know, what's really something that Lisa should be getting kind of mad about is that she said in this conversation that it's getting too deep for her and that essentially what she's communicating is that she is worried about getting hurt because she's getting too invested. And what he hasn't said is, you know what? We probably do need to talk about the fact that, you know, what we're doing here, because I don't want you to get hurt and I don't want you to get too invested. Instead, he went, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, potentially in the future, I might potentially be open to something. Just carry on.

Yeah, he's paid no attention to what she's actually said, which is, I can get hurt. He's shown no care for that.

Doesn't care. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't care.

Does not care. And that's if, by the way, Lisa, if you're listening to this and there's a part of you that's going, I don't like, you know, this is the way you're talking about this whole thing. I don't like it. You're making fun of it or whatever. Get mad at him. That what we're saying is highlighting, I'm not minimizing your pain. I'm not minimizing the fact that it's going to hurt you. to have spent time investing in someone who you like. And it always sucks to lose someone we like. All of that is valid, and I get it, and I don't want you to suffer. But the reason I have to make fun of this is because I don't want you to suffer. It's because I need you to actually see through this stuff. You've been given it too much time of day, because you're so close to it. And when you're really close to someone, let me tell you, I don't blame you because proximity is power. When you're close to someone, someone can sell us on a logic that we start to believe because we're close to them and because we're giving them the benefit of the doubt and because they're shedding tears and because we don't want to be mean about it. But this person is shedding tears for himself.

Correct.

Not you.

Yeah, he didn't show any particular contrition at any point in that email.

And also, you know, he talks a lot about his PTSD with his past relationship. I actually, I said it in either the last podcast or the one before, but we as women, I think, have to be really, really mindful to not let men use us for the girlfriend experience, which I think is exactly what he's doing here. He's staying up all night shedding tears over his past relationship with you, but then saying, that he can't commit to anything right now, but maybe potentially in the future, he will stop seeing other people consistently or whatever he said. So it's also after three months or so, he's kind of using your patience and good nature because you're allowing him to do it. And the reality is that anybody, whether they have status or something about them that makes them valuable to the outside world, the best way to stand out to people like that is actually to have healthy boundaries because maybe he's just used to people doing whatever the hell he wants because ultimately that's how everybody else treats him because they're all too scared to lose him. But you have to value how you feel about yourself and the fact that you have a sort of healthy and non-anxious, non-avoidant attachment style, whatever you call it, the normal one. That's secure. You know, secure, protect that because actually dating People like that is exactly the kind of thing that messes you up. And I think you have to protect that and just stand out from everyone else by saying, you know, this is what I would like. And actually, I'm not asking for a lot. I'm asking for exclusivity. I'm asking for this to maybe be something where we actually look to see where it goes because we've been dating for three and a half months. So if you can't give me that because you're not ready, because of your past relationship, your PTSD, your whatever it is, that's absolutely fine. But then we can't continue as we are because ultimately, as you have stated, he's not meeting your needs. And I actually think that's a better way to stand out and to even make him want you than to just agree to everything he says.

Now, Audrey, hang about, because I'll do you a deal. I'll do you a little deal. All right. You stick around and I promise I'll bring it up in therapy. At some point. At some point. Well, that is true. Not this week, because I've got some work stuff to bring up this week. But I promise you stick around, love. At some point, I'll bring it up in therapy, all right?

Cockney Cruise.

That actually brings up a good point, the, the being in therapy and stuff thing where I think we can separate having empathy for someone's issues with, like you say, deciding this is now the reality that is dictated to us. Like, you can say, that sucks. You're going through that. That's really difficult. But you still have the decision. Does this mean my reality completely compromises everything I need and I think if we're good-natured, you can fall into a trap as well of what I call if X then Y, where people go, this person has so much great stuff on paper, and if only they didn't have the previous trauma with the girlfriend issues, if only they weren't, didn't have a wandering eye, if only they didn't have these mother issues that mean they never want to commit. then, ah, if that block was gone, then we would just be great. And that person can also walk you into that mindset where they're like, oh, if only, you know, it sucks. I have this. And they might be true that they have them, but it'd be like, if only I didn't have that, then we would be golden.

It's fantasy, science fiction, because you don't have that. So thinking, if only we had that, is. you're now writing a science fiction novel, a science fiction romance.

It's like someone goes, oh, if only Don Draper wasn't a serial womanizer, like, you know, the women in Don Draper's life, if only he wasn't like that. Oh, he'd be this great, great man, this great husband.

Yeah.

And you know, the other thing I, I just, I think is really important because I actually suspected in the early, in the beginning of this episode, Matt, you said, You have to suspect yourself, why are you compromising your needs just because he is a celebrity and a big deal? And I think the answer to that is, as I said, because what if I don't find anyone else like him? So if I let him go, if I assert my standards, he might walk away from me. And then I don't have him anymore and I can't get myself another one. I think it's really important in this to question where the values are in terms of what Lisa is valuing in this relationship. I'm not saying that's the only thing she's valuing. I'm sure it's not.

What she valuing and what she getting.

Yeah, but also in terms of like the reason you think that this person is irreplaceable isn't because he's making you happy. So you're valuing the totally wrong thing. You know, if you're saying I'm I'm so afraid I won't find someone else who makes me feel as good as alive, as seen, as heard, who makes me laugh so much, have such great sex with. Fine, one thing. But if it's like who has so much status, that's nothing. That's not really anything you can work with. That's never going to bring you happiness. It has to be accompanied with so many other things. By the way, these are the things.

In order for it to be valuable. And if someone makes you excited and you have great sex with them and you have all these things and they're.

Not meeting your needs, they still can't make you happy. No, of course. But what I mean is, I think Yeah, absolutely. And I think, but I think this.

Is probably, I just wanted to say that because Lisa will absolutely come back and say all of those things are true.

No, exactly. Fair enough. But I, and I suppose, I suppose, I mean more, can you be happy with this person long term? Do they possess qualities and traits that actually make you feel good in terms of safe and secure and not, not insecure, not like you're questioning yourself, you don't know where you stand, not that you're alone. and all of these different things. And I think, yeah, I just think instead of being so afraid to lose him for his status, just forget about that and look at the person you're losing and what he's actually bringing you. If you strip him of all of that, because all of that long term just doesn't matter if he doesn't make you happy. It never will. And it doesn't make him valuable as a standalone trait.

Jamison, as I was reading this email originally when it came into the inbox, there was a. A name I coined. Steve, I'm wondering what you think of this. This is the name I've coined for when men or anybody. It's not just. It's not just single out men, but I think there's a. This. We see this a lot in men have just the right amount of pain. to get what they want, but not give you what you want. I'm calling it the Goldilocks pain paradox.

Really nice.

You, you know, you go into the house. He, he tries the, he tries the cold porridge and goes, oh, no, no sex with you. Not seeing you a couple of nights a week. Too cold. Oh, this. This one, giving you a relationship, actually being with you, not sleeping with other people, too hot. Getting exactly what I want, but not giving you the things you want. Just right. It's the appropriate amount of pain to sell someone on to get everything you want while withholding the specific thing they want.

It's brilliant.

It really made me laugh when he said it to me.

Just ask you. Just. Just the next time he tells you all of this stuff, I want you to remember the Goldilocks pain Paradox. He somehow has the Sweet Spot of pain that allows him to get all of his needs met while not meeting your needs. It's quite specific amount of pain, isn't it? Thanks for watching the video. I hope you enjoyed it. Before you go, head on over to move. www.onstrong.com where I give a free video training for anybody who is struggling to move on from someone in their life. Check it out at www.moveonstrong.com and I'll see you there.