What If the Sex Starts Out “MEH”?? | Matthew Hussey

If needing the big show is what's always needed. You know, the dinner, the candles, the thing, the romantic music, the lighting, the what if it needs to be that every time, then sex is just intimidating. It just becomes this daunting thing that you never get around to because it requires too much.

Do you have sexual expectations in your relationships?

Are you literally asking me?

I'm asking you.

Well, that's personal. Don't we all, don't we all, don't we all have things that we needs that we expect on some level to satisfy within a relationship?

We do indeed. And what I want to bring to your attention is there's an article talking about how our mindset towards sexual can completely affect the quality of our happiness and satisfaction in our love lives. There was an episode of Sex in the City where Carrie Bradshaw had bad sex with a guy, disappointing sex with a guy twice. And basically the advice from her friends was dump him from Samantha, I believe. And there's a lecturer called Jessica Maxwell of psychology who went to do a study about how your expectations and compatibility, your expectations about compatibility affect your relationship in sex. And what she basically says is that the more romantic a mindset you have towards this of thinking you just have to naturally be compatible or you don't, you shouldn't have to do any work to make your sex great, it should just fit perfectly. She calls this a sexual destiny mindset. And she said that over time those people struggled a lot more to maintain their happiness and satisfaction in a relationship. Especially when there were problems down the line, when there were challenges, you have a baby and the sex changes the people who thought it, it should just be like magic, it just clicks, it fits together. It's our destiny. Those people struggled more than the people who had a sexual growth mindset being the idea that sex can improve over time that they agreed with. Statements like the ideal relationship develops gradually over time. Challenges and obstacles can make love even stronger. And those people were more likely to tough it out in the difficult points and to just experience longer term happiness. I think this is really interesting because I come I have a little conflict on this. And in general I agree with that growth mindset. But we do know there is a magic to when you feel like, especially sexually, you meet a partner and you feel like, whoa, this is amazing. Like it feels different, you know, when it feels right initially it's not like, oh, it was the per. No, I don't think anyone's sex with their partner the first time is the best sexual experience they ever have with that partner. But they do feel a sense of. That felt. That something felt really right there.

So you are a sexual destiny person.

No, I'm not. Because, Matt, I would say that the, the sex does get better, but it only gets better when you are with someone who has a kind of pragmatic mindset towards sex where there's a. It's not always flowers, candles, it's got to be the perfect feeling. And the moment, the, the people who, in my experience, when there's too much of a sense that it always has to be special, there's, as a. It has to be romantic. It kind of doesn't. I, I think, I think that's the less satisfying course on the relationship. In my experience. It's more when someone's like, you do have to sometimes just please each other. Or you think about, how can we make this better? Or sometimes you're like, let's. I just want to get you off tonight. Like, one of you is thinking, I just want to get you off and do what, you know, pleases you or turn you on. And, and there's a more pragmatic sense of, you know, what's the right sex for this moment? Or how do we just do this better for you tonight? Or what's something I can do that's going to please you? There's. There's more of a give and take and more of a kind of let's make this better together.

But you are in the camp of when you first have sex with someone, you need to feel like there was a bit of a wow factor.

I think not even a wow factor. It just. You get this sense of like, maybe that's what chemistry with someone is, or some feeling of like, I don't know, insatiability or I want more of them. I want to be close to them again. You kind of feel that, that sense of. It just, it gives you. Yeah, I don't, I don't know how to explain it better than it does give you a feeling of like, that felt right with that person and you definitely know it. You know it when it didn't feel like when people have had. When you've had bad sex, like, especially the first or second time, I think you just, you do tend to feel like it wasn't just about that. Oh, that wasn't my favorite kind of sex to have. I think you more feel a sense of. It just didn't. I just didn't feel something with that person.

But what if you have a. What if kissing them feels good but the sex is. It doesn't you know, it feels off.

Again, I'm not saying even the kissing. Right. Sometimes the first kiss you have with someone new is not. You learn each other's kissing style almost, but you feel a sense of like, that gave me a tingle. That was great. Even if you're like, oh, that person uses way too much tongue. I don't like that much tongue. You, you kind of then learn each other's style more.

The same is true of sex, I think.

Yes. But I'm saying even if, you know, the sex wasn't the mind blowing or the particular thing you like, you do tend to feel that there was a, like, oh, there was some spark flying. There's something felt great. We had a natural chemistry together. It might be like I loved their smell or it felt good or whatever. Even if it wasn't like, oh, that was the best thing. That was my favorite thing ever. The thing that most turned me on. You do feel some kind of natural chemistry with that person?

Well, I think that you can feel chemistry with someone but then get to the bedroom and feel like it somehow wasn't what you thought it would be or it was. It felt off in. Not in a kind of really not off in a scary way or anything like that, but it just felt like.

A bit awkward or the first time.

Or your styles were mismatched. And therefore there is a kind of, I don't know, a disappointment or a feeling of maybe we're not compatible in this department. But I do think that the initial sex isn't or isn't always a very good indicator of that. I think that you can feel chemistry with someone, go to bed, think that, oh, that felt not right.

Right.

But that can actually move quite a distance from where it originally was.

I, I agree, I do agree with that. I guess I'm talking more about some primal feeling of almost like pheromones or something. You. You feel a, A pull towards that person or you just, you know, you really want to be physically close to them. There's a, you know, I mean, just, just there's something beyond just, I think they're physically attractive. There's like a sense of, that felt really good when we kissed or, you know, but I, I agree with you. The, the actual distance it can go can be vast in terms of the gap between when the relationship started and months in. I do think that takes a very specific mindset. That's the part where I really agree with what Jessica Maxwell says, is that you do need, you need that pragmatic sense of we're Gonna work this together almost. We're gonna figure each other out.

I suppose it's just. It's hard to have that in the beginning. Right. When you don't know each other that well. That's kind of the will get it right. Thing is, feels more like almost a relationship conversation than an early dating conversation.

But don't you think a little bit. You can sometimes even feel early, really early on. Even the first time you have sex with someone, you can even feel really early on that they. They want to turn you on and you want to turn them on. You can almost tell the difference between, like a selfish lover or a passive lover and someone who's very much like, no, I know it's the first couple of times, but they're still, like, putting in effort and you're trying to please them.

Although a lot of people, I think we sometimes forget how much nerves plays a part in the first time two people have sex.

So in the first time.

Yeah, the. There's, you know, or a lot of.

You both just trying to make it not. Not. Not do anything bad or embarrassing or wrong.

Right. You know, and even. Yeah. A lack of comfort that can, especially for women, make it difficult for them to just relax and enjoy it, you know, actually be comfortable with some in an intimate space with someone in that way. And so I think that we don't. We don't really get a sense of each the same way that on a date we don't get. We only get a sense of someone, but we don't actually necessarily see their true colors or we don't see their most playful side. We don't see them at their most with a real sense of abandon. We don't. We just don't see that very human stuff. And I think sex is the same that we don't. The idea of going to bed with someone for the first one or two times and saying we know them sexually is. Is kind of absurd because you're not.

Going to tell your fantasies and your, you know, you're not going to like, explore a lot sexually, are you?

Well, you're just. Yeah. Or even if you, you know, people have different, you know, boundaries on the first time together. But even if you're very liberal in what you're willing to do in that first occasion with someone, there's still. There's still no intimacy.

Yeah.

Or.

Or there's unlikely to be the intimacy that's going to be there later on.

Yeah.

There's still a sense of tiptoeing around each other or, you know, you're you're really getting to know each other. There's a connection that hasn't been built yet. And that's not to say there's sex where there's immediate fireworks and there's huge comfort and wow, wasn't that amazing? And you know, that felt so natural and that felt, there's that sex, but there's also, there's also so much room for awkward sex to begin with. So much room for I don't know what you like. You don't know what I like. We wouldn't even care to tell each other what we like right now because that would somehow feel inappropriate or it would feel like I'm revealing too much about myself or I'm literally bringing my last relationship into this first time with you or, you know, so, and there's.

Like a, like a game of chicken, like I'm not going to be too vulnerable and, you know, see who's more vulnerable first or like, you're not, you're not going to like, go revealing everything.

Yeah. So I, I, I do think, I, I think we probably do judge these things way too harshly early on and we don't give things space to, to evolve. And it can be, you know, that, that's as much about getting to know each other as any other part of being with someone.

Like learning someone's, each other's habits and deciding what you, how to work and live together sort of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. It's why we would put sex in a special category of that's supposed to just be great, but the rest of us takes time to get to know each other and get comfortable and so on. It's the, you know, most intimate thing you can do with somebody. So I do, I do think that it takes time and I do think, you know, or it can take time. It can also go nowhere. But if you really like someone, if you're having a great time with them, and the only thing that's making you question it is the sex, that might just come down to communication.

Yeah.

If it paints a picture, that's the same as everywhere else.

Right? Yeah.

Then, okay. But if that's the one thing that's holding you back and you know, you do find the person attractive, but the sex just feels a little off, then there's, that's, that's communication, that's educating someone bit by bit on what you like and learning about them. And it's amazing the extent to which people respond to direction. If you tell someone what you're into or the pace that you like or the pressure that you like or that this, there's so much that people are willing to learn and be like, oh, okay, I didn't realize. You know, we do get it wrong. Yeah, we do. We get it massively wrong in this area, but we can learn each other. And I think that what's more interesting than how great of a lover someone is at the time you meet them or how compatible it feels right off the bat when you're both supposed to be mind readers is how well does this person respond to direction? How well does this person listen when I talk about what I'd like them to do or the way I'd like to do it? That is going to be a far more important barometer of the compatibility of the relationship than how great it is from the get go. And that's true well into a relationship. Right. It's the, the ability to communicate is that is going to be the thing that defines how great it can be, is do I feel safe to talk and to say things that I would like to happen, Whether they're fantasies, whether they're things I would like you to do differently? Of course we have to approach these things in a, in a tactful way. But do I feel safe? Do I feel I'm in a relationship or in a dynamic where there's a kind of space to do that? And are you someone who can hear those things? Are you someone who can respond to those things? That is going to be where the strength of the relationship and the sex comes from.

Yeah, I think responsiveness, strength of responsiveness is such a crucial thing in sex, in relationships, in understanding your needs, like, not just hearing it, but being like, oh, I'm gonna try that then next time. Because they seem to enjoy that, or that was something they said they really liked. Like, you know, it's like if your partner says, oh, I love it when you bring me flowers. Like just even being responsive and noting, noting what you're actually hearing from someone. That combined with like, say in sex, like being open minded and not immediately like judging someone's needs and kind of being open to being like, well, maybe their needs are a bit different to mine, you know, just understanding that, you know, maybe there's something they love that is normally not my thing or you know, within reason, but thinking, oh, they love that, so we'll do that. And other times it's all about you. It's like giving someone a massage and sometimes you're the one who gets massaged, you know, like, yeah, or someone likes.

A massage and you don't. And so you just, you just go, oh, okay, then I'll give them a massage. Just because I don't like a massage, that doesn't mean I can't give one. So it's. Those things are really important. And not judging someone else for what they like, for what right. They're into or what they'd like you to do it. The moment someone you can overcome so much difference if the two of you can, in an enjoyable or fun or playful way, talk about the things that you'd like to do together.

Yeah.

And you don't have to share all the same ideas of what's sexy or what's hot. You have to be curious. What's really required for a great sex life is curiosity about each other.

Right.

Curiosity and not judging.

Yeah.

If you can be genuinely curious about what will turn someone on about what they like about what would be something that they would like to try. If you could be genuinely curious about that and create a space for someone where they don't feel judged for saying those things, the that will. Someone will see you as an incredibly difficult person to lose. Because what you find then is not, oh, I found the ultimate compatible partner sexually who came to me just pre made to be compatible with me. What you learn is, oh my God, I have someone who's committed to my sexual pleasure.

Right.

I had someone who's committed to what would make me excited and turned on.

It's almost having more of an outcome basis instead of like the process. Like me and Jay, if I can put you on the spot. Are you miked? Jay? If I can put you on the spot. We talked a bit about this, about letting go of the idea that the leading up to sex always has to be this perfect dance.

That's right. Yeah. And I think, well, I think what's interesting about what you said, Matt, about curiosity is I would just try to couple that with a bit of energy where it's like. Or like a little bit of intensity into it where it's like when you're starting off with somebody, there's just naturally going to be, you know what you want. The movie version of this is there's just naturally that energy and that intensity and that's nice when it happens naturally, you know, and I think we can talk about this later. But it's just like Hollywood and wherever, like makes that, you know, a bit hard to live up to. Hollywood, pornhub, everything makes that difficult to live up to. But what's interesting about what you're saying, Steve, is That sort of like outcome dependency. More like if you, if you take that energy and you just kind of like, you try to, you try to maintain it later on in a relationship for something long term, I think that that really helps because you can, you can at least set aside, you know that that's actually going to be something that requires a bit of work, a bit of effort to have that energy that maybe you had early on.

Right.

And if you set aside like, okay, I'm gonna have a plan for this, it might not be like the most naturally occurring energy, but I'm gonna like set aside some effort and the effort is gonna be. It doesn't necessarily have to be like this long, drawn out, involves candles or whatever. It could just be like, oh, I'm gonna turn off the TV and focus on you now. I'm gonna like you. You know, just like. It doesn't have to be this long bit of foreplay, but it could be like, all right, let's, let's almost. This doesn't sound romantic, but let's mark this off the list. Let's get this consistently done. Because otherwise a week can go by, a month can go by.

Yeah. And we were saying, like, if every time you think we have to go to dinner, dress up, we have to do a thing and then we come home and have like passionate sex, it's like you are then making it something that is not a sustainable way to fit this into your relationship. Like, sometimes it will be fast, sometimes it might be 10 minutes before you both go out. Sometimes it's like one of us is just horny tonight and you know, we, we get someone off or something. And it is like the more you allow for the fact that there'll be different kinds, there'll be romantic encounters and there might be some that are a bit more like, let's just do this tonight.

Yeah, I mean, I, people certainly don't, I think, enough treat sex as a. Just a wildly different set of experiences. You know, it can be fast food, it can be a gourmet meal.

Right.

It can be Shake Shack, it can be a 12 course tasting menu. You know, like, it's, it really can be. It can be noodles on the side of the street, or it can be you having an all you can eat buffet for the whole night. It could be anything that you want it to be. And I think sex becomes kind of almost a very literal thing all the time where people can be like, it's like, oh, okay, are we going to have sex tonight? Instead of like, I don't know, like, it's. Sometimes it can be. Sometimes the mood should be, well, let's just take off our clothes and get under the covers and just see what happens, you know? And maybe nothing or maybe something or maybe, like, you just start feeling each other up and it's like it just lives there and it's fun and it just lives in that space, you know, Sometimes it's admitting I am so exhausted and still horny at the same time, and I don't know what to do. I have nothing, but I'm horny, you know? And it's like, what is it? What happens when you say that? Does anything? Maybe. Maybe something different happens. Or maybe it's like the laziest but kind of fun thing. Like, let's just have. All right, we. Let's have sex. But I. We can't. I. It has to be unbelievably lazy. And you say that. You state it instead of it needing to be like a big. Like, I've got to do this big thing now. Just own it. Own what it is. Let's just have a really. Can we have sex and just make it insanely lazy? Because I've got nothing to give right now. You know, I'm revealing too much now. The problem. The problem is if it's one thing, if it. If it. If that lazy sex is what it always is, that's a problem. If needing the big show is what's always needed, you know, the dinner, the candles, the thing, the romantic music, the lighting, the. What if it needs to be that every time, then sex is just intimidating. It just becomes this daunting thing that you never get round to because it requires too much. If it always has to be penetration, that's like. That's a lot. If every time there's foreplay it has to lead to penetration, then that's a thought, right? Because now, by the way, oh, she's on her period, or she doesn't feel like doing that, but she wouldn't mind having fun in other ways. Or you don't. Or she just doesn't feel like that tonight, or he doesn't feel like that tonight, but might be open to something else. Like it's. There's. There's just. Sex is such a. It's such a multifaceted thing, and it can be such wildly different things. And totally. And I do think that a lot of our. A lot of our issues come from a kind of stasis of. Stasis can be having the same kind of sex all the time or the Same rituals for sex all the time. The same rehearsal, the same. Or the same dress rehearsal, the same foreplay, the same time it takes the same time of day, the same place. This. That kind of stasis is often what makes it problematic. Or stasis can be that we haven't asked each other in a while, like, what's something fun you'd like to do that we haven't done recently or that we haven't done at all? What's something fun you'd like to try? Or we don't know right now, so why don't we just go to a sex store and, like, just see if anything catches our eye? Or let's go to a sex store and you pick something and I'll pick something. You know, we both have to buy one thing that we haven't got already. Like, let's go. Let's go do that. You know, or it's watching porn together because you've never done that. Or it's like, it's something that just makes it new or makes it takes you in a different direction, makes you think of each other differently. Or it's, you know, what's a. Let's talk about a fantasy that we would never do in real life, but let's like, role. Let's talk about it and role play it as a fun fantasy that we talk about.

You know what's interesting? This article that you brought up, Steve, was called Great Sexpectations, something like that, right?

Yes, it was.

But I do think that you're circling in on what's in that. The. The word in that title that I think is dangerous, that people don't realize is the expectation part. And I think that is probably where you can draw a line from what the article's saying about right at the beginning having that expectation dangerous to what you're saying, Matt, which is like, when you get in, like, a certain groove, and that groove creates like an expectation that is dangerous, too, because an expectation you just stuck in your head. And what you want is really like a question mark. You want to go into the sex door and not know what you're going to get. You want to go, you know, Dr. Ruth, I think it was, gave a great piece of advice where it was like, have sex before you go out.

Yeah.

To dinner or whatever. Because that way you're not like, oh, what, am I going to eat too much? Am I going to be too tired when we get back? It's like, you need to remove the expectation. You can't even. You can't even expect to have sex before you, you kind of have to like, let that question mark live in your relationship. And I think that's a really interesting line to draw between what the article is saying and what you're saying about something. Longer term.

I have a rule as well. If you're horny, like, if you're both feeling it, have sex. Because you can't guarantee that an hour from now you'll still feel that. Like if you, if you're about to go out and something about getting dressed together or something about the moment you, you know, you catch them over there naked, put half naked, putting on their makeup or whatever you like. If, if you find yourself horny and they're willing have sex. Carpe D. Don't go. Yeah, car pay. We need, we need more Latin. Seize the something.

I had a friend and she told me once that, oh, you've got to have sex before you guys go out. Otherwise, like, you just, you know, just takes it off the table all night. You're not thinking about it.

You're not even if you have 10 minutes or five minutes and you're that, then that's fun. Like make the fun that you have five minutes.

Right? Yeah.

No, not the ceremony of. But we own, you know, we only have five minutes and we, you know, we, we have to like that's. Now you are creating an expectation around sex. You are putting these parameters around it that it always has to be this. Now again, if it's only ever five minutes, that's a problem. The contrast is what creates attraction. Contrast is the same way that we talk about unique pairings in dating. That one of the things that makes people really attractive is when they have unique pairings of traits.

Yes.

That you don't often find together. So if they happen to be. If they're sexy, but they're also funny and they make you laugh, you know, that's a unique pairing. If someone is very confident, but they can also be really sensitive and vulnerable about their insecurities, which, you know, ironically is just another form of confidence really. But still, when you have someone who's bold but also is willing to admit their flaws, that's a unique pairing. There are many, many, many unique pairings. But unique pairings apply in the bedroom as well. Someone who can simultaneously have a all night ceremonial sex session and also that week, you know, have a five minute moment with you is that's a unique pairing. Oh, it can be both. Sometimes it's the five star meal, other times it's Shake Shack. Yeah, you can Be both. You don't have to be one thing in this life. That's what's awesome. You don't have to be one thing. You can be many, many different things and your sex life can be many, many different things. And I do think it over time, it just, you know, it, it hardens, doesn't it calcifies people that they get stuck and then they convince themselves that there's no more variety to be had. And that's the part I think we always have to challenge. We have to challenge ourselves to say, is it really true that there's no more variety? Or have I just started seeing my partner the same way all the time? And by the way, if I'm seeing them the same way all the time, maybe I need to change something or maybe I need to communicate something different that I'd like to try or maybe I'd like to communicate something different that I'd like them to do or them to wear or them to speak about. You know, let's speak about the unspeakable. You know, what's the unspeakable? Let's speak about something that feels unspeakable. We may never do it, but let's talk about it. Let's talk about the taboo. Let's talk about the thing that will never be on the table, but let's talk, let's have a fantasy about it, you know, like it's all those things that make us, remind us that there's so much variety to be had even within a relationship over the long term. And, and in some ways more variety can be had if you feel safe to do to, to try all manner of things that you wouldn't do on a one night stand or with someone that you were just casually seeing. You couldn't say those things or you, it would feel strange to let someone into your world to that extent. Proust said the journey of discovery lies not in seeking new landscapes, but in seeing with new eyes. And that's what this is, right? Every time we mix it up, every time we, we do something different, it's. And again, mixing it up isn't reading and a new edition of Cosmo and saying, oh, this is Cosmopolitan's January position. Let's mix it up with a new position. Like it, that's stupid. That's like the, that's the Cosmo version of mixing cookie cutter way of. Yeah, mixing it up doesn't have to be so literal. Yeah, mixing it up can just be the time of day. It could just like you said, it could be before you go out instead of after you go out. It can be talking about something you don't normally talk about. It can be just asking questions again, actually asking questions. And if anything, you know, we started this episode by talking about should the sex be great in the beginning? And if it's not great in the beginning, does that make that person wrong for you? If to me, if all of this teaches us anything, it's that you learn each other. You learn each other, and as you learn each other, things get better and better and better. It should be more scary to lose someone as time goes on, because what you'd be losing at that stage is someone who know, like, knows you inside out. Someone who knows what you like, knows all the things you wouldn't dare tell anyone else, knows the, the, you know, they know the hidden passageways of your sexual mind. They know the things that. There's such intimate details and they're things that, you know, they've come to truly be the. They're the mechanic for your body. You know, like that. That it should be more scary to lose someone later than in the beginning because of what they know and how they know to please you. And that's a sign that you've communicated. And if anyone's saying, but it wasn't wonderful, there wasn't amazing, you know, in the beginning, we didn't have that. Unbelievable. Well, how much have you communicated at that stage?

Yeah, and that's where the work comes in. That's why they said the sexual destiny mindset says if sexual partners are meant to be together, sex will be easy and wonderful. And it's clear right from the start how good a couple's sex life will be. And both of those statements don't take into account fact. You learn and you have to put in a bit of effort as it.

Is with every part of a relationship and, and the measure of a relationship. Yes, chemistry is real. There's a. There's a. There's certainly an intangible aspect to love. Let's not discount that there is this difficult to figure out thing between two people that I feel this kind of animal attraction towards you or you towards me, or we feel a kind of. There is that energy between us on some level, you know, and that's. But even that isn't one thing, you know, that's not. That means different things for different people and it comes in different forms. You know, for some people, it's just, I look at you and there's something about you that just drives me crazy. For other people, it's I get close to you and we kiss and I feel it or we you know I smell you and I feel it or you know there's something about the way you hold me that makes me feel it is different things for different people and I don't it's not for one couple to judge another couple's chemistry or for movies to dictate what that chemistry looks like Chemistry is a is a intangible and sort of mysterious thing but but so much of it can be nurtured and can be grown through how well two people get to know each other and if it doesn't get better if it does if things don't if if communicating well doesn't put it on an amazing trajectory that's a problem but if it does then what you have is actually more exciting than someone who came preordained for you pre made for you what you have is a relationship that is going to be a living breathing organism that just keeps getting better and better.