What's Behind the Male Fear That Women Only Care About Money?

Foreign. Do women really care about money as much as men think they do or worry they do? Especially in 2025, now going into 2026, if you're a woman, are you struggling with earning too much money and feeling like that's shrinking your dating pool because men are intimidated by what you earn or you can't find someone who's at the level you want them to play at? Are you a woman or a man who is single and feels like they need to date just to be able to afford life in this age where everything is so expensive and it feels like everything is designed for couples from hotel rooms to rent to mortgages to sharing grocery costs? Others will say the opposite and say that dating and relationships are wildly expensive. To go out there and keep paying for things and be the one footing the bill for another human being in your your life is the thing that makes it cheaper to be single. Money is a hotly debated topic when it comes to love and dating today, with people talking about all sorts of struggles they have in their love life as a result of money challenges in one way or another. We are going to talk about those today. And I think a good jumping off point is talking about what is one of the most common things that is said, one of the most common criticisms by men today, or a lot of men today, which is that if you're not a guy with money, you don't stand a chance in the dating pool. To what extent is that actually true?

This is such a big subject, I think, I think that there are multiple things going on here and there's obviously different experiences happening to different people and different genders. What I will say is it does feel at the moment when you go on social media, if you end up entering a certain algorithm, it does feel like you can very quickly get sucked into a rhetoric which is basically that, like, women are only looking for a rich guy, men are only looking for a certain whatever woman, which is not the subject of today. But, you know, the point I make is just that you almost, you can get very sucked into this idea that there is just one, one type of person out there who is looking for one type of thing. And if you don't have that thing in this case it's men and money, then you're not valuable on the dating market. And I think that's a really, really dangerous thing to brainwash yourself with because what it does is it takes away all of your power and all of your value and it basically it makes you feel like you have no value on the dating marketplace. Whereas actually very, very smart people like, you know, Professor Scott Galloway said that the three traits women find the most attractive in men are kindness, intelligence and the ability to signal future resources. So it's not about what you have today, but your potential to grow and to create a stable future. There's a very different thing, I think to you need to have loads of money, you need to earn over a hundred grand, otherwise no one's going to look at you. That's a very different thing.

Well, that gets into interesting territory about what, what does it mean to signal future resources? You know, is that that you're earning well now and therefore people assume you're going to be earning even better in the future or is that you show a certain level of drive or organization or ambition or ingenuity that to someone who is around you, they're going to look at that and see, oh, I'm with someone here who has the resources internally to be able to create a future. I'm not worrying, in other words, that this person is going to, you know, lay around and smoke weed all day. I actually believe that I have a great teammate here that I can rely on.

I think it's that as a woman, I'm obviously not representative of every woman in the world, but I think it's that, I think being with somebody who shows you that they, they want to make something of themselves. They want, they want to make sure that they're there for you in the same way that you're there for them. By the way, it's, it's a two way street because there are so many instances where you know, somebody falls ill, like the guy falls ill and then, you know, you have to step up as a woman and you have to take care of the family. Like I, I don't think it just goes, it cuts one way, but I think that, I think it's that, I think it's this idea of like I'm gonna be with somebody who isn't going to go out every weekend and like blow all their money or who's never gon, doesn't care about amounting to anything, doesn't care about making money, doesn't care about, you know, being able to provide for our family and being able to, to do those things. And, and I think that doesn't, again, it doesn't. It's really important that people listening to this who have any kind of insecurity around how much they're earning, especially guys, I think it's so important to remember that like the right woman and the right person will. Will value that because they will go, we can work together as a team to create the future we want.

But it's funny, as you said, if the guy gets sick and the woman has to be the one who steps up, even as you said that, I felt internally of a pang, like a little visceral reaction of like, oh, I know. That would be really hard for me as a guy if I got sick and you had to step up and I no longer was able to.

And the fact that it would be hard for you is what's very attractive. And I think that's the thing. You know what I mean? It's like the fact that it would be hard for you. The fact that you want to be the person who provides, the fact that you're like this makes me. The fact that I am not able to do this thing makes me want to work harder so I can do this thing. That's the. The part that's attractive. Not the actual. I think not the actual money itself and success itself.

I think that's really interesting, and I think it's good for people to hear that, because, to be honest with you, I hadn't even got that far when I said that. I just really recognized that this feeling that guys have, and it comes out in a lot of really toxic ways online for some communities, and it comes out in ways that I think are really obviously just very angry and unproductive, even for themselves. I do want to take a moment to just show some compassion for what guys actually experience in this area, because what's really behind all of that is fear. Right? It's a fear of not being significant, not being worthy, not being enough, not being attractive. And men have had signaled to them for so long that their attractiveness is linked to their ability to provide. And we live in a world where the idea of what providing is, I think, has become wildly inflated.

Yeah.

Because Instagram has basically magnified everything. It's inflated everything. You know, people are looking at lifestyles that they never would have seen before, by the way, the reason they wouldn't have seen them before is because they weren't. They're not real. Even for the people that are portraying them most of the time. Right. That person who's constantly portraying their life in Dubai or their life, you know, traveling around Santorini and this place and that. So much of it is nonsense. But we're comparing ourselves to these lifestyles. Men are comparing themselves to other men who take pictures with nothing but cars and jets and boats and, you know, Just a completely unrelatable level of wealth that's being pretended to, to be had by so many. And so even those guys are now what they see as enough has changed. And I think that that's not just men either. I think that's women too. You know, the same men, the same posts that, and parts of the algorithm that are brainwashing men into thinking they don't have enough are also brainwashing women into thinking the men they're dating aren't enough. So now you're not just contending with this, you know, your own comparison, but the fact that a lot of the people you're dating now have a level of entitlement about what they think they should have and what they think a successful man looks like. And all of that is just fueling inadequacy, fueling insecurity about where I am in my actual life. And it's a scary place to be to think I'm not earning enough, I'm not able to provide enough, whatever enough is, and we can come on to that, but I'm not able to do that. And I'm in a place in my life where it feels like I can't possibly get there fast enough or I'm too far behind to ever catch up, or I simply don't have the resources to be able to do that. Like, I'm working a job that doesn't pay me a lot by other people's standards. I don't have the skills necessarily to go somewhere else. I'm not entrepreneurial. Or being entrepreneurial might even feel irresponsible based on the responsibilities I have. I don't even know what I would do if I was going to be entrepreneurial. And by the way, not everyone should go and be an entrepreneur.

So it's like, that's another thing, isn't it? Like the, the entrepreneur culture, like this idea of like, everyone wants to be a CEO, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur. And not realizing that, obviously, like, if your goal is to make money, that's actually not even necessarily the fastest route to it. But it does, it does exemplify that attractive trait of like being a go getter, being someone who actually kind of, you know, says, I'm going to make something of myself, I'm going to really, like, put myself out there. And really. Yeah, and that's, and that's, that's. And that's very attractive whether or not you are or not successful in your.

Endeavor, I think, and 90% of that is pretend too, because how many people are Creating Instagram profiles with a company they started yesterday and putting saying CEO, you know, so there's. There's so much nonsense out there, but it is creating real comparison and it is creating real inadequacy. And I'm curious as to what you think about this, Stephen, because it's that that fear and that insecurity is. Is very real for men. And that same feeling that I had when Audrey just posed a hypothetical that, like, I get sick and I'm in the hospital and now I can't do that, gave me an instant instinctive reaction of, like, oh, that would make me feel deeply uncomfortable. And of course that makes me feel deeply uncomfortable because there's something deep in my programming, whether it's societal or biological, we don't need to get into, but there's something deep in my programming that you would be less. You know, there's something about that that would be less attractive or less worthy, and that's scary. So I have such empathy for people who are in positions in life where they're feeling that every day.

And is that because you fear it would change how Audrey felt about you?

I. I think that there would be, if I'm being really honest, I think that it would be this instinctive feeling that I was somehow failing in the way I was showing up as a man, and that over time there would be something about it that would wear Audrey down. Not that she. I'm not suggesting for one second she wouldn't be with me or anything like that, but I'm saying that feeling of, like, over time, it would start to affect her.

Yeah. And I think that affects a lot of men's confidence massively. I think. I think in some ways the. That we're all thinking about people who are in, like, the 5 or 1%. And I think that is the problem is, like, for most people, like, I've coached a lot of women over the years, as have we all, like, a lot of them are not actually their goal. The thing that's holding them back isn't that they're seeking a super rich, successful guy. That isn't what people's major problem is. And actually, if you're a guy, I think the encouraging thing is actually if you're doing some of the basic things well, you're actually ahead of, like, so many people. If you are saving some money every month, you're investing a bit, you can pay your rent, you've got a job that's got a steady income, you're actually ahead of so many of those pretenders. And wannabes and people going, yeah, I'm doing, you know, they talk grandiose dreams, but actually they're making nothing. And it's all like, smoke and mirrors and it's all dreams and whatever. Like, those people put on a good image and a good game. But actually, you're ahead of so many people if you have a stable income and a life where you are actually putting some money away. So I think there's an encouraging thing that the standard. Just that whatever the Internet tells you and all that stuff about, you know, and they'll interview, like, the shallowest people who go, yeah, it's all about, you know, someone needs to earn 250k or they're not worth my time. It's like, why are we taking that as the barometer for what people are like? That is not what the average person is. Is actually looking for. And so, and I, by the way, I'm. I don't want to seem Pollyanna share, because I'm not in denial that the standards have risen. Women earn more now. And so there might be a lot of women who say, well, maybe if I have kids and I want to slow down a bit in my career and I want the guy to pick up some slack, I do want a guy who's stable, as stable as me, and she might be a working professional who goes, I do want. I want to keep that lifestyle. If maybe I have kids and maybe I want to, like, slow down a bit, I want to keep that lifestyle. And I think there are men for whom they think, well, am I capable of doing that?

Guys, quick announcement. This is the last chance to get your tickets for my October retreat on the 18th and 19th of this month. This is the one and only retreat that's happening this year. If you miss it this time, you'll be waiting for a whole other year to be able to do it again. And life is too precious. The growth that you want to do, the confidence you want to build, the emotional patterns that you want to overcome cannot wait another year. If you are truly valuing your life. We have a virtual ticket available that is only $195, and you can watch the entire event from wherever you are in the world, from wherever. You're listening to this podcast right now. You can watch it in your pajamas. I just don't want you to miss it. And those tickets are only available until the 17th of the month, so days away. Now, make sure you get your ticket today@retreat access.com. i'm even throwing in for anyone who gets their ticket 30 days of access to Matthew AI completely free so that if you have any questions after the retreat you want to continue your progress, your momentum, your accountability, you want to ask me more things, you have access to my digital mind for 30 days after the event is done. And by the way, if you don't have the time on the 18th and 19th to sit through my retreat with me, we're giving you two full weeks of access to the recordings so it actually works out to three weekends and two weeks after the retreat that you can still listen to the event or watch the event so that you don't miss a thing and you can do it on your own time. Go to retreat access.com grab your ticket and I will see you on the 18th of October for something that is going to transform your confidence and change your life over the coming years. I want to read this is going to seem off aside like left field from what we're talking about, but I want to bring it back because there's a really interesting thought when I read this. I think this David found this on Reddit. It was from a woman, 34, female, who said, I'm finding it really hard to decenter men while being single because the current economy is brutal. I think what she means by that is like not make them the center.

Of her focus and finding love center of her focus.

She said rent and mortgages are so high it feels like everything is built on the assumption of two incomes. Couples can buy homes, rent bigger places, build wealth, while single people are stuck covering 100% of the bills with 50% of the earning power. I don't want to rely on a partner financially, but the girl math is hard. Don't get me wrong, I would love to find a partner, but I feel I'm searching from a place of need rather than want half of the time. I sometimes think because I don't have my own place it makes me less desirable as a partner. But then it's also nearly impossible to do without a partner. Catch 22 so here's the interesting thing. Firstly, here we have a woman who is saying I worry it's making me seem less attractive that I don't have my own place, right? So I think for any men listening, it's important to hear that that you're not the only one who may be worried that you're not enough if you don't have enough. We also see an example here of someone who is saying not I want a really wealthy person today, but someone who is saying I really need a teammate because life is hard, and it's much harder on my own trying to, you know, finance the cost of living today than it would be if I had a teammate. So I think that, like, men out there who say, I'm sick and tired of feeling like I have to be the sole breadwinner, blah, blah, blah, like, I, you know, and women just want a guy who's got money. This should give you some encouragement that actually there's plenty of women out there who just want a teammate. But there was something more subtle that I. When I read this, I thought was really interesting and actually can help create some empathy in women for men. Because when I read this, I. And all of the reasons she said it's really hard to be single and how expensive it is and really needing a teammate to help finance how expensive life is, I thought, wow, congratulations, you know, now you now know how it feels to be a guy in this world who is expected to pay for everything. Because what you just articulated is difficult about being a single woman is exactly what many men feel is difficult about being a coupled man.

But, you know, I hear you, but I.

Hang on, hang on, Steve. True or false? Like, for guys, who pays for everything?

Like, guys.

Plenty of guys. Plenty of guys pay for everything in relationships because they've been made to feel like they have to or that they should or that that's what's the. The way it's done. And. And that's not just a. That's not something men just invented. Right? There's plenty of women out there who make a guy feel like he's doing something wrong if he's not picking up the tab every time they go out? And we have to be honest about that, because that is the reality that men are facing a lot of the time. How many women do we hear from that say, I, you know, for the first two months, he picked up the bill, and now he started expecting me to pay. What do I do about that? And it's like, what you do about that is you start being a teammate, you've been dating for two months, but.

That'S a certain type of woman.

I agree. And I think it then becomes about what. That's a. That's like a whole episode in itself is how do you, in your selection process for who you choose to date, look for those signs that someone is a teammate versus someone who's going to have that expectation? But I just want to recognize that a lot of people are coming across those people. And there are plenty of women who, when they go on a Date are like, will. Will say. We'll say openly say, if he doesn't offer to. If he doesn't pay, I'm turned off. And that becomes a pattern then in their relationship. Look, I was in a situation where I was a couple of months into dating someone, and it really started to irk me that this person never offered to contribute to the bill. Because I'm the kind of person who likes paying. Like, I'm not. I think sometimes people misread me when I talk about. When we talk about the whole, like, who should pay on a date thing. And my philosophy is simple. I've said it before. The video got 30 million views. People know my stance on this, I hope, by now, but in case you don't. My stance on who should pay on a date is if you're a guy, paying for the bill, especially if you're the one who asked for the date, is the thing to do. But if you're a guy and the woman you're across from doesn't even offer to help, then you. That can very quickly start to send a message, right? You. I'm not saying as a woman, you should fight a guy on a date to go halves on the bill, right? That's not in the spirit of a date. If someone's like, no, no, no, let me get this. Thank you so much. That's really kind. And by the way, gratitude goes a long, long way when you at the worst thing. The worst thing is when someone doesn't offer to. To contribute and then doesn't even acknowledge that the dinner was bought. Like, that is the height. To me, that is the height of entitlement and rudeness. And. And by the way, that happens a lot, right? It's like people just kind of don't look at the bill. It's an awkward moment. Someone pays, and then the date just carries on, right? That is the height of rude.

Have you guys experienced that a lot? Like, going on dates with people and they just.

I experienced going on a date. No, forgive me. It wasn't a date. This wasn't a date. I just experienced going to what I thought was like a kind of business. I thought it was a bit of a business meeting because I had worked with this person. They were part of a company.

Turned out it was a hot, steamy date.

There was no steam.

Matt's like, I'm here to do business.

Why are my clothes on?

No, we did not get that to that point. What happened was this person started ordering, like, a ton of, like, she was ordering champagne. The Soft crab, really expensive things on the menu. And by the way, this was at a time where I could not afford this meal. Like, I was in a restaurant I couldn't afford, thinking, man, I'm like, this is going to be an expensive bill. And that was when I thought we were splitting the bill, right? Or in my head, I was like, I don't know, maybe her company's paying for this. Because I was like, technically the client. So I was like, maybe her company's paying for this, but if it's not, that's okay. We'll go 50. 50, that's fine.

She's like, forget the crabber. What's the price on the lobster today? Yeah, that sounds good.

Anyway, at the end of the meal, I can't remember how it came to be, but I was like. I must have said, like, I thought I was being generous by being like, you don't have to do this on the company. Let's split it. What happened was she got immensely offended. And I remember us getting in the taxi and her like, basically half on. Like, I was going to drop her off. And as we. As I was going to drop her off, she said, just let me out here and just. Just open the door, and stormed out of the cab. Because I think she was so mad. I think what happened was she really didn't see herself going home, like, a couple of hundred dollars poorer that night. And when that happened, she was furious. She was like, I wouldn't have ordered that. I would not have got the champagne. I wouldn't have, like.

What was it you said the other day? I don't want the meal I can afford. I want the meal you can afford.

Yeah, yeah. I don't want my lifestyle. I want your lifestyle. No, it's that. But that was what it felt like it was. She had come in with a very set assumption of who was paying that night. And it really, like, it really upset her that she went home having paid half of that meal. So I have experienced that. And I will say my. The greater experiences of my life have not been that. Most of my experiences have been the opposite of that. Been with. Have been with incredibly gracious and generous and people who are teammates from day one. But I've. I was dating someone where at one point I said, hey, bothers me that you never offer to contribute like it. I just want to say it because I don't want to, you know, hold on to that. But it does bother me. I feel like every time the bill comes, you. You know, nothing happens. I just end up paying.

And I've had to contribute ever since.

It wasn't you. But by the way, she was immensely embarrassed by that. That in that case, this is not someone who stormed out of a cab. This was someone who was immensely embarrassed. And it never like, after that, it didn't matter. It wasn't like that. But those were the roles that we were playing. And by the way, like, let me take some responsibility for this. Those were the roles that we were playing because she, I think, was in. She was used to that and that was what she'd been taught that was the right thing to do. And I was coming in, I'm sure, with my ego and thinking, I'll take care of this. And then the next bill came up and I was like, I'll take care of this. And then the next bill came up and I was like, I'll take care of this. And so, I mean, I'm also ingraining that pattern because I want to feel like the big guy who's getting the bill and doing the thing. And so. But now, like, I'm that guy who's getting slowly and slowly more resentful because I feel like I've not got a teammate. But I think it's really important to recognize the very subtle dynamics at play in a situation like that. Part of the reason I don't have a teammate is because I also haven't allowed someone to be a teammate. I have come in thinking that a part of my value, and maybe a bigger part than at the time I would have liked to have admitted is this is my ability to put the card down. And then I'm mad because I've created that scenario.

Yeah.

And I think I really mad. I should be mad at myself that in the beginning I didn't have the guts or the self worth to be honest from the beginning about the kind of dynamic I would like to set up because it played in my favor at that point when I was trying to impress someone to create the alternate dynamic that didn't end up being sustainable because it wasn't actually in line with my values or the kind of partner I wanted to have. Yeah.

And then you get resentful about it. And I think a lot of guys have that situation where it's just, you know, it is unfortunate that a lot of us are brought up to just think that, like lots of men think, well, that is what I provide, that is my value. And it's look, lots of women are attracted to men who at least can provide on some level or who at Least have, you know, the stability to be able to offer. Like, they can help build a home. They can help, you know, create an environment where we can have what we need. And, you know, that is attractive, the.

Ability to signal future results.

Right. Future resources. And, and, and by the way, I think, I think there is an opposite thing. We don't have to get into it, but I think there is an opposite thing where, like, men who are doing well for themselves don't also want to feel. They. They don't want to feel like they have a partner that's overly burdensome to them. I think there's a lot of men, a lot of men I know who do well, are educated, whatever, fairly successful, kind of want something similar for themselves in that they. It's not that they. They're thinking, oh, can she provide for us? But they. They want to feel like we have a good team contribution together. I don't have to completely now. I'm not just so, you know, I'm with someone who's broke, has no prospects, no whatever, A. Because that's also boring, like, for a person who's successful and doing interesting things. But also they think, man, that's going to be really burdensome. And I.

But I also think that's because you have friends who are good and decent human beings as well. There are plenty of men out there who absolutely do not care what her prospects are. They care about owning someone. And sure, they know that the less, you know, if she's not powerful herself and that they contribute everything, that's a way of asserting control and dominance. So I do think that also speaks to the quality of people, you know, in your life. But I want to reverse this for a second because there are plenty of women who will say that exactly what you just articulated for guys with money is true for them where they are in a situation where they've done well in life, they've earned, you know, either a position of stability in life or a position of real, you know, wealth. And either way, those people will often say, I want to date someone who can keep up with the life that I have. I want to date someone who I don't have to just, you know, support now, essentially. And I think where it gets really interesting is we could do a whole other episode of this. So I'm not going to elaborate on these points right now.

Well, what you just said, though, does fly in the face a bit of the idea that women only want wealthy men. Because actually, we do hear from a lot of women who say, I'm Actually quite successful. And I've been supporting a guy who earns no money or nearly no money.

It does. Although I think those people would say, yes, but she's complaining about it. And therefore that supports our point that she's not happy just to be supporting.

Well, she was attracted and got in a relationship with someone.

Right. But it turned out to be. I'm just saying, I. But I. Yeah, I think the. These things do become issues for people because no one, man or woman. Well, this is where gender dynamics play a role. And I think we have to acknowledge that it is more common for a guy to be okay with supporting a woman because it's much more socially the norm. Some people will argue that's biology, but it's. That scenario is less troublesome usually than women who are in situations where they're the ones supporting the guy. And it's often seen as worse. Right. I think a guy. If people observe a woman with a guy and she's the one completely supporting him, they have a lot more of a problem with that. They. I think people instinctively go more to. He's like, you know, a deadbeat, she's.

Carrying him or something.

Yeah. Like, that's how. How dare he not, like, do something? There's much more of that than there would be the other way around. And I think we have to acknowledge that. But for women in these situations, it's interesting. I think I'm all over the map here, but I think there's so much to say and I'm trying to keep it short. If you are a woman who has a lot of money, I think that that should give you tremendous freedom to choose who you want to choose. Right. I think that's not the time to say, oh, it's so hard to meet someone because I have so much money. I think it's the time to say, wow, I've really opened up my options here. Because I don't have to be the person who says, I really need someone to earn X amount in life so that we can live a decent life. I'm already living that life. I just need to find someone I love. Right. So I think it should give you more freedom. But where it gets tricky is when you have a lifestyle that will be compromised by somebody who doesn't earn what you earn. Which is the situation I would argue, most people who have created stability in their lives are in. If they can afford a nicer experience of life, it's. It can be a lot harder to maintain that nice experience of life. If you're now supporting another person. You know, it's much, it's much more expensive to buy two plane tickets than it is to buy one. So that's the position that a lot of people find themselves in, is not I want someone to have as much money or more than me purely out of ego. It's I want someone to have an equivalent lifestyle because otherwise my lifestyle actually drops. And that's a lifestyle I fought for and worked for over many years. And that's where it gets a little bit trickier. I think the hardest position is not for the, for necessarily the uber wealthy who can date whoever they want and it doesn't matter. I think it's for the middle who there will be implications for their life if someone comes into it who's in a completely different bracket. I think we can save that conversation for another time. But it's an interesting one. And if you have thoughts on any of this, email us podcasty.com if we did another episode about all of this. Tell us, what are your thoughts? What would you like us to talk about? What did we miss? Let's talk about hydration. Audrey and I always start our mornings with electrolytes. I especially do or I cramp in jiu jitsu. That is a fact. Recently we have been using Cure, which is all these lovely flavors in front of me right now. This is a plant based hydrating electrolyte drink mix with no added sugar and just 25 calories per serving. It is clean, natural hydration that keeps us energized without the crash. There are so many great flavors. The one in my glass right now is blood orange, but there's also strawberry, kiwi, watermelon, berry, pomegranate. And here's the thing. Staying hydrated is not, not just about drinking water. 75% of Americans are dehydrated. It can lead to fatigue, brain fog, and even dry skin. Cure is designed to tackle that with high quality ingredients like coconut water powder and pink Himalayan salt. It delivers pure hydration without any artificial sweeteners or added sugar. So if you're ready to feel your best cure makes it simple, clean and delicious. And for our Love Life listeners, Cure is often offering 20 off your first order. Visit cure hydration.com forward/lovelife and use the promo code Love Life at checkout. Now back to the episode.

I also just, I want us to finish off with this point because for any men listening, it's really, really important to remember this. You know, oftentimes what gets misconstrued is this idea that women just want A wealthy guy. And I actually think that women are attracted to so many more nuanced qualities and attributes in men. And for instance, one of the things that I have witnessed is men who have or is in a certain bracket earn a certain amount of money, tend to carry themselves with a certain level of confidence. And they do that because money makes you feel powerful, it makes you feel safe, it makes you feel in control. And so it's much easier to feel confident, act confident, when you have money and you know that ultimately you've got. You've got yourself sorted in that area. And that confidence is actually oftentimes the thing that attracts a partner. And the reason I say that is because I think that sometimes people have it the wrong way around. It's like, I need to make money and then I'll attract people. It's like, no, whatever money is going to bring you, whatever you think earning that kind of money or having that kind of life is going to bring you that feeling. That's the feeling you should chase after, because you may not attract every woman. There will be women who go, you don't have enough because you're not on 250 grand. Which is ridiculous, by the way. Like, ridiculous. When you look at the average income, that is a ridiculous, ridiculous expectation.

Also someone I would never want to be with, of course.

So there will be people like that be people like you've talked about who don't want to pay on a date, who don't want to even reach for their wallet, who expect to have their plane tickets paid for and have their life funded. But there's also a huge percentage of people who do not, and who will be so attracted to your confidence, to your. The fact that you know who you are, to the fact that you know you've made a really good point, Stephen. Like, are you saving money? Are you stable? Are you striving towards buying a house and having a steady life? You know, are you able to signal the fact that you're going to have future resources? And future resources, by the way, does not mean being wealthy in the future. It means you will be able to have a home and put your kids through school or university, if that's something that you want to do, you'll be able to afford going on holidays once a year. Like, it doesn't need to be extravagant and crazy. And I just. I think that that's really, really important to make that. It's really, really important to make the distinction between those two things, that it's not just about having all this money it's also about, you know, the energy that you bring to the table on a day and you bring to the table in dating because frankly, that is what is going to attract the most people to you, not what is in your bank account.

I'm really glad you said that. And I'm glad you said it on the back of everything else I've said, because it's not what everything I've been talking about is not me saying that we all live in this depressing world where everyone cares about the wrong things. It's just an acknowledgment of the fact that a lot of people have had really bad experiences, just the same way that women have had really bad experiences with, you know, guys who are looking for all the wrong things. And.

And to that point, by the way, there will be plenty of men who are looking for the hottest girl they can find. And there are plenty of women who will look for the richest guy they can find. They are the same people. They should find each other. You're not looking for them.

Also, I want to say to everyone out there who watches these videos on YouTube, because I know so many of you watch the podcast on YouTube. We love when you comment and we love the debate in the comments that happens between different parts of our community. The men, the women, everybody. But I will say, like, these. Hopefully what we can do about these subjects is, is, albeit debate them, do it in a way that is compassionate and that doesn't just come from a place of anger or toxicity. You know, that that's the kind of community that we want to create where we can actually talk about these things and also, like, take some responsibility. There's a huge part of our ethos and our philosophy is taking accountability, too. So you know that the finger pointing that happens in so many communities online, to me, it's just not a winning mindset. And we're not just about explaining things here on this podcast and talking about them. To me, it's also about getting the most out of life. And to do that, you have to have a winning mindset. And a winning mindset isn't just pointing the finger at everybody else all the time for our own frustrations. So I say that with love, but, like, I love the positivity and the kindness that we have in our community. And as this podcast grows and we bring in new people, I want to continue that culture and not lose it. And for that, we need all of you in the energy and the tone that you bring to the comments below. So we have a love life line here. Dear Audrey, Matthew, Steven and David, David doesn't have a microphone today. He's wearing a mask because he's sick. Sorry David. Love your podcast, which I have been listening to up and down for the past weeks, especially because of the following situation to which I will now cut to the chase and would love your thoughts on. My story goes as follows. I met a guy during a film festival I was working at and within a few days of knowing each other and a few conversations, we hooked up and went home together after the final party. The night, though a little drunk and clumsy, was wonderful and for the first time in a long time I felt the butterflies again and a little bit in love if I dare say. However, already the morning after I could feel his energy shift in a way that I had already feared it might if I went home with him, which we know she did. We messaged a little bit afterward and he was sweet and friendly but kind of ended up breadcrumbing me and then never responded to my last message. Now I'm left with the gut wrenching feeling that I slept with him too soon. I almost went home alone, then decided last minute to go for it and in doing so I devalued myself. At the same time, I didn't feel like falsely suppressing my desire in that moment for what to me feels like a medieval gender role about not going to bed with a man too soon if you want to keep his interest. Now I can already hear Matthew's voice saying move on, your time is valuable and my rational brain agrees that the signs so far show that he merely wanted a one night stand. But I can't help but think that he's someone I'd really like to see again and get to know. We live in different countries, but he is moving to a city that I travel to regularly, so the plan I now have in my head is to contact him once I am there again and see if he'd like to go on a date. Am I delusional and or devaluing myself to give this another shot? And if not, how can I turn this power dynamic around and give him the chance to see me in a different context and perhaps in a different light? Thanks as always for all of your wonderful thoughts, Bianca thoughts.

I feel really sorry for Bianca. This question, when I first read it made me kind of angry. I don't know how you guys feel about it, but I just, I. I think there are so many, especially women listening who will relate to having been in that exact situation where they feel like for whether it's, you know, two dates, 10 dates, five days, two weeks, they got one version of a person, which is someone who was probably texting back promptly, engaging meeting up, you know, just showing interest, being open. And then to use her language, you sleep together. And in the morning, his energy just shifts. And the fact that he hasn't responded to her message, and the fact that he has left her feeling like she has devalued herself, which, by the way, Bianca, you have not devalued yourself. I think we should talk about that. There's a lot. I have a lot to say, and I'm sure everyone else has a lot to say on that, but the fact that that's how it's left you feeling, I think it's just. It's so unfair. And I really, really, really hate the fact that this happens. And I think I hate. I hate. What I hate is that I conceive straight through somebody who does that. Because the reason you feel that way, Bianca, is because he probably was in a situation where he was going, well, this is just a bit of a holiday romance, a bit of a kind of fling, because we don't live in the same countries. We're meeting in this place. And he sort of kind of was able to then, like, almost get what he wanted out of the situation, which was a casual thing, and left you feeling like, you know, basically, like a little bit worthless from everything you're saying. And so that makes me mad because I think it lacks transparency. And I understand why somebody doesn't go into it saying, like. Like, I'm not looking for anything serious or this isn't going to happen, anything. This is where, Bianca, it's really important that you go into it and you ask. You know, you're able to ask and state what you want in a situation before you do something that you are not necessarily comfortable doing. If it doesn't amount to anything, like, if sex means a lot to you, you know, maybe those conversations need to happen prior, but I do. Yeah, I just made me mad. And I. That's. I. I'll stop there because I want. I actually want. I think it's more interesting to answer Bianca's question, but it did make me kind of angry reading it.

I'm curious what role context should play in these situations, because when I hear film festival, both away from home, live in different countries, only gonna be interacting for five days before you get on a flight, I already am sort of instinctively building some of that context into the situation.

Like, low expectations is built into the.

Idea a little bit. And in a way, the onus is on this person and me to communicate otherwise. If it's. If I see it as more, it's almost like that's the part I need to communicate. Like, I. I see it as less relevant to communicate that it's less because the context of the situation already makes me feel like it's going to be less. So I would need extra assurance that it's going to be more from someone like, hey, I know we're both on a film festival. You're working, I'm doing that, whatever. We're only here for five days. I live in Spain, you live in America. I, you know, I know that the odds are against us here, but I don't know, like, I like you, and I'd be open to kind of continuing to talk once we got home, if you like. If I heard that from someone, I'd be like, oh, this. I might look at this as a little bit more than a film festival fling for five days. And I. I say all of this completely understanding that when you are the one who's actually in the situation and you find yourself with an attractive stranger, feeling comfortable, having fun, making each other laugh, getting excited to speak to them the next day, that a lot of that logic goes out of the window. But to me, that's the kind of logic that we have to hold onto in those situations, because context does matter. And so I look at this and I go, and I'm Bianca, I sympathize so much with the feelings that you have of, of hurt at having, you know, had sex with someone and then feeling like they fizzled out and didn't respond to your last message. Clearly, he could have handled that a lot better than that. So let's just make that very clear. While I understand that and I'm really sorry that that happened, I think it's really important that we use that context not to get ahead of ourselves in these situations. You know, when I read you were even a little bit in love, I want to remind you five days. You know, I'm saying five days. You said a few days, so it might have even been less than five days. But, like, that feeling you have is producing part of the hurt because it amped up the intensity to such an extent that you now are like, I'm having real deep feelings for this person. And I would say you're not necessarily. You're. You're having extremely intense feelings for this person. But I wouldn't necessarily argue you're having very deep feelings for this person, I think we have to separate depth from intensity. And what's causing your hurt, I don't think is depth. I think it's intensity of feeling. So that's the first thing that I think is creating a level of hurt that is over too much hurt for someone you've known for a few days. So then what's the other part of the hurt? The other part of the hurt is that you have a kind of a script, a story around what sex means, and that I wouldn't have it. There's a. This thing of, I. I don't know that I would have done this so quickly had I known this would happen. Maybe you're saying now, I definitely wouldn't have done this so quickly had I known this would happen. And what's interesting is actually you write about, like this, you know, what you say is a medieval gender role about not going to bed with a man too soon if you want to keep his interest. And clearly you have disdain for that role because want to live in a world where the. There's this power play around sex. Like that you want to just be able to have sex with someone and let it be just sex. I would argue that, in a sense, you need to take your own philosophy on board there with this, that you have not devalued yourself. That that is a medieval role.

One men don't. If a man wants to commit and thinks you're amazing and is really like, he's serious, he's not gonna discard you because you slept together.

Unless he's a misogynist. If he's a misogynist, he might say, oh, you slept with me after five days. Oh, not interested anymore. But if he's not a misogynist or someone with a religious dent to their thinking, then he's not. No one's thinking that. They're just thinking, I saw someone for five days. I had a great time. The sex was great. I want to keep seeing them if that's what they're in the market for.

Yeah.

So you have not devalued yourself. You don't need to attach any meaning to this. Like, had I not done that, maybe it would have gone differently. Because even though you hate the idea of that, I get the sense that a part of you does actually believe that. And that's the part that we want you to. To let go of in this. When you say, am I delusional? And, you know, devaluing myself to give this another shot, I would argue there's nothing to give another Shot. This person hasn't texted back to your last message. This is where our brain starts to go into the. The kind of world of fantasy. Right? You. Let's look at the facts. You live in different countries. He's moving to. He's not moving to your city. You said he's moving to a city I travel to regularly. So even there, it's like I'm stretching to find the logic of this. He's moving to a city you travel to regularly. So now the plan I have in my head is to contact him once I am there and see if he'd like to go on a date. Well, look, there's nothing wrong with that.

And here's the thing, he might say yes to that, but it might be the same deal.

Oh, all over again.

I'm not against a Hail Mary text, like, as a. Kind of like, you know, if you're kind of like, let me just see if it's properly like, you know, throughout Hail Mary. Just. Let's see if it's still on the cards or not. I'm not against that. I am against doing that more than once. But. But I think then you just might have the same guy with the same intention. Unless you talk or go on a proper date, then that doesn't involve sex. And you see how that goes and organically grow it. You're gonna have the same, like, oh, you're here on holiday, Great, let's hook up again.

And if you can't enjoy that sex for what it will be if he fizzles again, you definitely shouldn't do that. The last sentence you say, if not, how can I turn this power dynamic around? There's no power dynamics like this between two people who are right for each other. You don't need to, quote, turn the power dynamic around with someone who's right for you. And even your framing of this as a power dynamic robs you of your power. Because if you just said, okay, I had sex with this person, I would have liked for it to go somewhere more. But it didn't. But I haven't lost my power. I've just discovered that this person doesn't want the same thing I do, then there is no power dynamic. But the idea that you have to turn the power dynamic around is you asserting that you have already lost your power.

That's such a good point.

So there is no. You don't need to get him to see you in a different context. That assumes he now sees you in some lower context. He doesn't. He's just. He had his goals, you had your goals, they didn't align. And it the only. There's no way, by the way, to entirely account for mismatched goals other than to either delay sex, which I agree with you, sometimes is just not fun. And. Or to express to someone that what you are looking for is something more in your life. You aren't trying to make this something that it isn't four days in because you don't know each other that well. That's how you maintain your power when you're saying that in the sense of, like, I'm not, not suggesting here that you've already won me over in every way, because how could they after four days? But sex means something to me. And as much as I'd love to go home with you tonight, if for you it's, you know, this is just a kind of fun fling for a few days, which I agree it has been fun. I just. That's not a line I would cross for myself. You can say that. And that's a one way to mitigate for mismatched goals. But if you're out there sleeping with people who you have a fun time with and you're doing that within a short space of time, there's no way to fully account for mismatched goals other than to spell them out. And even then, you'll get some liars. And those are the real, you know, those are the real pieces of work, is the people that you express that and they lie to you and still disappear afterwards.

I also want to say, Bianca, because I think it's really important. You are clearly like what you just said. Matt is so valuable around. You know, you have created a power dynamic between you and this person because you're going, I now need to prove to him that I am worthy and valuable. And I want you to remember that maybe half of the reason why you think he's so valuable is because you don't feel like you're valuable because of the power dynamic that you have created. And so just ask yourself, if I did date this guy, you know, how do I know for sure that in three months time he wouldn't annoy the hell out of me? That we have mismatched values on this thing, that actually he's really annoying when he does that, that I actually don't really like him. He annoys me. He's not interesting in the way I thought he was. That's in this exciting context of a film festival and doing all these things like just don't put him on this huge Pedestal where it's like, the love of my life or this person that I really thought I could have something with has slipped through my fingers because I made this giant mistake that is making him so important. And I think all of that stems from exactly what you said, Matt, which is just. She has. You know, Bianca, you've put yourself on the back foot in the situation, and it's time to take your power back and take control back by realizing that he is not that special. You don't really know this person. And if you want to send the Hail Mary text, that's fine, but you can go into it going, it's going to be on my terms this time. And if he doesn't want to meet me there, then he's definitely not the right person for me. But what I know for sure is the way that I have made myself feel in this situation, I will not make myself feel again.

And a Hail Mary text is, by definition a Hail Mary text. That's like going into the casino and going, I'm going to make an outside bet. I mean, there's a. This probably isn't going to come through, but, you know, I'll put. I'll put a chip or two.

Every time we've ever done that in Vegas, we lose with that.

And that's what you, by the way, that's what you have to tell yourself. I'm not going in and taking, like, all my money that I have to lose tonight and putting it on that number. But, yeah, I'll throw a chip on it. I'll throw something that I'm not gonna miss. We had a comment on episode 314. They've stopped trying. Do this instead. If you want to listen to an episode from someone who has stopped trying, go back and listen to episode 314. Sean K says, OMG. I really like the reference of trying less that you've mentioned in this episode. As a dancer, I'm always told to do less in my movements, and it is so hard to do so. And I realized it's the same in my love life and my relationships. Once you figure out how to do less, the impact is beautiful. Thank you so much for making that connection. It helps a lot. I love that. Thank you, Sean. We had another comment on episode 315, the X effect. Why your brain can't let them go. This one is from Brett. I love this podcast so much. Every time I'm dealing with dating bull crap or someone that's not being consistent with healthy behavior, and I feel like I need to compromise or like I'm doing something wrong. You all help bring me back to earth and realize that I have got to stay the course and stick to my values and standards, even if it means being alone. Really appreciate you all so much. Thank you so much for that, Brett. I think it's so lovely to remember that these. Sometimes we need to hear something 10 times, 50 times, 100 times, and, like, the podcast can be the difference. Like 30 minutes, 45 minutes of listening to the podcast can be the difference between having an awful day and connecting to our joy, our peace, or our value. I love it. It's that time again, Steves Sleeves.

Oh, welcome, everyone. We've got a great show for you today. We're gonna play a game called the Price of Love.

The price of love. Everybody, let's cue the theme song. I don't be bereaved. You know that we can't leave without another episode of Steve Sleeves. The Price of Love. Let's hear it.

We've talked a lot about money and whether being a provider makes someone a worthy mate. But I want to talk about some of the behaviors or negatives that might be bad enough that it doesn't matter what someone makes. They. You can't put price on it.

Did you and David come up with these together?

No, we did not.

This is Steve's exclusive. Okay.

So I'm going to give you some scenarios. You're going to tell me, is it a dollar deal breaker?

Okay.

Or are you going to buy that guy?

Okay.

I might need to write those down anyway. Dollar deal breaker. I like these. This is classic Steve Sleeves.

And buy that guy.

Buy that guy.

What?

So it's just about guys?

Well, because we were talking. The episode was about men and money.

Got it. Okay. But maybe we say sort of guy could. Could be anyone as well.

Okay. He makes 200k a year, but spends more money on his dog than you.

How long have you been together?

More on his dog.

He spends more on his dog than you. If you tally it up, the dog got more at birthday, at Christmas than you did.

It's hard because, you know, like, in Japan. What's that dog statue in Japan?

The Shiba. Famous shibu in Shin Shibuya.

In Shibuya. I can't remember his name, but, you know, like, if it was that kind of dog that he was that. Because that dog was amazing. It, like, showed up to the station every day after. It's.

Oh, I don't think it was a Shiba. Anyway. It was a little bit. Oh, it was.

Yeah. That dog like, showed up to the station every single morning, even after the owner died. It was an amazing dog. And so it got a statue. If you're looking at it and going, you know, I had to erect a statue for my dog because they were such a saintly, incredible dog. And technically, yeah, that statue cost more than I bought. Quite niche in dinners last year for you. It is niche and it requires. You'd have to have a truly exceptional dog.

But it depends how long you've been together for, Right. If you've been dating for six months, I think that's fine.

Well, how much does it cost to. What are you spending on your dog? I would be, I'm gonna say dollar deal breaker. Because if you're spending that much on your dog, you're probably someone who buys your dog silly that they don't care about. Like a dog doesn't notice, you know, a golden collar. Do you know what I mean? It's not really improving the dog's quality of life.

Okay.

Once they're getting really well fed and having lovely walks and got a great ball, it's sort of diminishing returns. But you've got a human here that.

You know, would love a golden color.

Would love a lovely rib eye steak dinner.

So what's the answer here?

Dollar deal breaker.

I'm, I'm. I think it depends how long you've been dating him for. I think it could be by that guy. Unless you're in a long term relationship with them, in which case a dollar deal breaker. Definitely.

Fair enough.

Okay. He makes 300k a year, but insists on investing most of his money into crypto memes. He has several crypto themed hoodies and.

Dollar deal breaker.

Dollar deal breaker.

And he insists on saving money on every date with coupons because he wants to invest more in crypto memes.

Memes. Just, just like, not even crypto.

Not even. Just bitcoin. Just. Just spreading around all, like, crazy crypto coins. But he thinks, he's like, he's like, look, I earn 300k. Yeah, I know what I'm doing. Like, I've got.

I would say dollar deal breaker because for every one of those people that should be taken seriously, there's probably like a million who shouldn't. Right? And you got to play the odds.

That's very true.

I agree.

That's smart.

Yeah. Yeah, I, I'm gonna. I wouldn't take my chances with that. I know. And if I, and if that person went on to be a billionaire, I'd have to go. I still made the right choice because the chances were they were against me.

The process was correct. Your process was correct. Okay. He makes 400k a year, but likes to game for 3 hours a day after work. Video games giving you a good life.

For anyone who didn't hear that, David just does.

Well, I didn't. I don't make 400.

Well, this is always one of those interesting ones because the women gamers are like, cool. And then there's some women for whom video games are anathema and they're just like, no, I cannot do a guy.

And obviously for those, for those women, it's, it's dollar deal breaker. But there's a whole swath of people in the middle who say, that's not my interest, but can I be okay with it being their interest? And that really comes down to, does that person respect and value the relationship enough to put similar investment into the relationship? Because it's not. There's nothing wrong with them investing time in something they love. But is it to the exclusion of the relationship? Because you also have to be something they love. Your relationship also has to be something they love. And where that argument of like, but it's my passion falls down is when it becomes a zero sum game between this passion and your relationship, which supposedly is also your passion but isn't being treated as one.

Yeah, my issue with it is the three hours after work every night. Because, you know, mostly every. Yeah, most people finish work at 6. So then what? They're gaming 6 till 9. You're going to bed at 9:30. Like, you don't see them if you're not into gaming with them. You don't see them if it's like, you know, I like to game six or eight hours a week, but I do that across my weekends and a few nights and stuff. That's different. That's like, fine, if that's your passion, you could have that with reading, could have that, whatever. But it's the. Every night, three hours. I just would feel like I'm never gonna see them.

Yeah. Lifestyle. Lifestyle is important. He makes a million a year.

Okay.

But insists you refer to him as Dungeon Master because of his DND obsession.

Like in public or just in. Just at the house.

In the house.

Can you, can you, can you say DM for sure or do you have to refer to the full Dungeon Master name every time?

You can sometimes refer to him by his DND name, like the character he plays.

Definitely dollar Deal Break.

Algernon Steel.

Definitely dollar Deal Breaker.

This is Dollar Deal Breaker. I think it's the, the idea that you insist.

Yeah. Nicknames are supposed to be natural and.

They'Re supposed to be like not done under duress. Then, you know, it's like you do it because it feels good to do it, not because someone insists. I would say, all right, find that dollar deal breaker sounds a bit mad.

He earns 600k a year but wants to split the costs when you travel.

Well, there's a lot of follow up questions to that one.

Yeah.

Because it's how much do you earn?

Yeah, that. Then it's like, do you earn at least enough to be able to contribute to the same extent they do? Do you, do they get a vote in where you go? Because if I have to pay 50 and you want to go to the most extravagant hotel every time and you want to travel business, then I'm beholden to your spending plan. But if I get a vote and I get to say, actually I'd prefer we stayed in a more reasonable place, if I'm going to pay 50%, then I think that's, that could be okay. That could be a buy that guy. But you don't get to say you have to contribute 50. And it's my way in terms of what we do.

I agree. Also, as a general rule, I think what is a good way to kind of go about money spending in couples is doing it as a percentage of what you earn. So it's like imagine if I earn 20 grand and you earn 50 grand of 40 grand. Sorry, it's absolutely fine that I contribute 50 less than you do because that's still the same amount of percentage of what I earn going into the pot, if that makes sense. Where I think it's not fair is when it's imbalanced because someone puts in 70 of their earnings and the other person puts in 20. I think, I think if you're just going, we both put 40% of our earnings in this pot for our life. I think that's a good rule because it's like, then you're both, you're both doing the same thing, even if the amount isn't actually the same.

I agree with that. I agree with that. I also think any relationship where it's constantly tit for tat, you always are like making sure that it's bad, the books are balanced or not. You know, like. Yeah, that to me is, it's indicative of a different kind of disease in a relationship.

And our friend Ramit Sethi says that that never changes if someone is very obsessive or cheap or just obsessed with everything netting out. He says that doesn't change.

Yeah. No. If you're, if you're like, like both obsessing over making sure you both paid 50 all the time on everything, to me, something's already.

And you want to be with someone who, like, if they're on, you know, earning 600 grand a year, sometimes they would. Would want to treat you unless they're paying off debt or they're supporting other people. But like, that's a, that's a large sum of money. You would think that you like, even if you're. You make enough money, you go, I want to put my money back into the person I love. I want to treat them to a nice weekend away. I want to buy them a person present. And both on both sides, by the way, not just the person who earns that much. And I think the fact that he insists every single time they go on holiday to split it. Yeah. Not sure.

Okay, he earns 500k a year, but he forgets every birthday and anniversary. Ah, he. He just. They just mean nothing.

Dollar deal breaker.

But he's generous. You know, he's.

He's a dollar deal breaker.

Deal breaker.

Especially if you find nice guy.

Not a bad memory, huh? He's just, he's just in his own only floor.

Then fine. If you don't perfect in every other way.

We haven't chosen to buy any of.

These guys, haven't we?

I think I've made the deal breakers quite bad.

I was willing to be by that guy on the video gamer.

That's.

Sorry, that gamer.

You got a few gamers in the room, so you got a Plato play.

So I'm just trying to not upset David.

All right, well, thanks so much, everyone.

That was a good one. I like that Steve Sleeves. And you know, I'm always honest with you about Steve Sleeves. That was a. That was a solid 8 out of 10 Steve sleeves.

That was a. Your meat and potatoes.

Back to basics. You know, I like the language. Dollar deal breaker and buy that guy. Wish there were a few buy that guys, but I would have liked to have said that more, but fair enough. Well, that's it for today. Thank you so much for your comments, both of you. Thank you to all of you out there listening and watching the podcast. We appreciate you all so much.

Thank you, Bianca, for sending in your question.

And to everyone who's leaving comments on the podcast in general, don't forget to grab your retreat Ticket@retreat access.com if you love the podcast, I promise you, you haven't seen anything yet. The podcast is a wonderful time to spend time together and discuss concepts and ideas and talk about what's going on culturally. The retreat is a formulated two day immersion program that is a system I have been teaching for years and once you have it, you'll be using it for the rest of your life. Retreat access.com is the link to Go and get your tickets. Get them now. They're only $195 to be part of this entire event. From home, wherever you are in the world, grab your ticket and we'll see you soon. Thank you so much everyone.