A Simple Trick To Free Creators from Stress, Burnout, and Bad Clients (with Hayden Flohr)
In this interview, host Matt Ragland talks with creator‑coach Hayden Flohr about why creators often feel stuck in stress, burnout, and limiting beliefs, and how to break free. They frame creativity as a nervous‑system regulator and identify stress as the primary feedback loop that shuts down creative flow. The conversation explores practical ways to dial down stress by moving from head‑centric thinking to body‑centric cues, using physical activity, creating for its own sake, and simple yes/no bodily questions. They distinguish between facts and feelings, encouraging creators to ask whether a stress response is a real condition or a perceived feeling, and to evaluate its usefulness. Limiting beliefs are examined, especially the trade‑off mindset (“I can’t have both”), and they introduce generative “and” questions to re‑frame possibilities. Practical tools such as short journaling, vision‑casting, and clarity exercises are discussed, with analogies like the tennis‑ball and cup to illustrate letting go of limiting beliefs and making space for new opportunities. Delegation, scope clarification, and adding margins to client work are suggested to reduce overload. The dialogue also touches on the role of “woo” or playful, esoteric practices in processing stress, and how aligning work with what lights you up—balancing profit and fulfillment—creates sustainable energy. Finally, they brainstorm a 30‑day creator challenge that combines daily content creation, skill‑building, and clarity practices, and share ways listeners can apply these frameworks in their own entrepreneurial journeys.
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So many of us get stuck chasing goals that no longer light us up, trapped by stress, creative burnout, and the belief that we have to choose between what pays the bills and what truly fulfills us. But what if this stuckness isn't a fact, but more of a feeling? In this episode, I'm joined by Hayden Flohr, coach, creator, and master at helping entrepreneurs get past their mental roadblocks. We talk about how to move beyond your limiting beliefs, how to work with your natural energy instead of against it, and how to build a business that feels aligned and abundant. If you've ever felt like you're doing too much of the wrong work, or that your best ideas are stuck behind a wall of stress. This conversation will give you the clarity and courage to do more of what lights you up with the people who get it. Let's dive in. Hayden, I'm so glad that you're here. And the first thing that I want to ask you on behalf of all creators, and like even for myself, is What do you see in your work and in your life that keeps creators stuck?
That's the big kahuna question, isn't it?
It is. Yeah. Let's start with the big one.
Yeah. What's interesting about— because obviously you talk to a lot of creators, right? And I think that sometimes people can forget that creativity is like life force, right? You know, you become obsessed with starting any type of business, doesn't have to be a creator business, because of this one simple fact, and that is creativity regulates your nervous system. So think about when you start your business or you fall in love. That's why people become so obsessed with following their passion, is because when you're creating, you are experiencing something in your body that you probably haven't experienced in any other capacity before. So when it comes to business, it's this interesting dynamic because stress has a very vital role when it comes to creativity. Feeling stuck— the more stuck you get, the more stress you get, and that stress actually shuts down your ability to create. When it comes to your business, your ability to create is your livelihood. So it's kind of this negative feedback loop, right? You realize you're stressed, you can't get out of the stress, you need the stress to perform,, and it's kind of like the snake eating its own tail over and over and over again. So broad scope, to answer that much more simply than it actually is, I think that stress— that's the most irritating answer on the planet— but stress really is the thing that keeps people stuck. And, you know, I work with a lot of people who are very successful in their own right, in their own industry, who maybe are going through transitions, a rebrand, a pivot between industries, a pivot within their own business. The one thing that they need to be able to do in these seasons of feeling stuck is be able to dial down their stress. Because when they can bring down their stress, all of the things that they're looking for and working towards, like creativity, clarity, intuition, those things open back up again. So it's almost like the most non-intuitive thing is to say, you know, like, oh, figure out how to dial down your stress and all those things will open back up again. When those are the exact things that you need in order to make you feel like you're less stressed, if that makes sense.
Yeah, so it does. It does make sense. And I think about things that I do to kind of like regulate my stress and how often it's like, just like, okay, let's take, let's take 10 minutes. We've all heard the, the take a walk that will, that will help. I also think about, you know, for me, I, I love to journal. I don't always journal, but that's another thing is like I like the metaphor, you know, in Harry Potter of Dumbledore, like pulling the thoughts starts out with the, the Pensieve, I think it's, uh, pronounced. It's like, okay, that's, that's what journaling feels like. And yeah, there's exercise, there's other things, there's cooking. Um, what are some other things that either come up for the people that you work with or like for yourself when you're trying to like bring down and regulate that stress so you can free and open-minded again?
Yeah, pretty much anything that will get you into your body and out of your head, because stress is the experience of being in your head. And it's funny the way that limitations and stress works is it's all perceived, right? You know, it sounds again oversimplified to say that your limitations and your stress aren't real, but they really aren't. And what's funny about stress is that you work really, really hard to prove yourself right. So when you have particular narratives in play, particular stories in play, even if they're crazy or not useful, you will work really hard to prove yourself right. So Whatever gets you out of your head and into your body. Now, here's what I'll say about that is, just like I said at the beginning, creativity regulates your nervous system. So finding the ability to create for the sake of creating, finding the ability to do something for the sake of doing it, especially within your business, is going to have that same effect. It's going to pull you out of your head, put you into your body. So you know, this self-perpetuating cycle of stuckness that entrepreneurs can get into. What happens is that they put such big expectations on every single thing that they do and create to be the best thing, right? Make the most money, get the most visibility, make them feel the best that it possibly can. Everything has to be this golden egg idea or opportunity. And that's what creates more stress when you lose that ability to just do for the sake of doing, you lose that connection to momentum. You start to contract, you start to restrict. Um, so yeah, creating for the sake of creating, it's always going to get you back to where you need to be. Um, and always the resistance to that is, but my livelihood depends on my creativity. Create more, create more without expectation. It is the number one thing that is always, always, always going to get you back to at least a neutral level where you can receive the things that you're looking to. So I, I love working out and running, right? Not everyone else finds that type of, you know, energy transference in working out.
The runner's high.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Because stress and pressure are energy, right? Second law of thermodynamics says that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but it can be transferred. So when you're feeling that in your body, you just have to move it somewhere. And once you move it somewhere, you kind of clear it. And for a lot of people, it's working out. For some people, like I said, it's creating for the sake of.
Yeah, I, that's, that's been a practice of my life as well. And I was just thinking like yesterday I was feeling, feeling a stress. I think there's, you know, one of the things about this is kind of accepting in some ways that you're just gonna feel stressed because of like the pressure that we put on ourselves, pressure that the market might put on it, especially like if you do, if you do a certain like deliverable-based client at work, especially, you know, you have breathing down your neck, or even if they're politely asking, like some, someone like myself, I want to deliver a really great experience for anybody who's, who's a client. And so like, let's say this has definitely happened to me before. And it's something that I have to like think about, put not just putting up boundaries for a client, but even like for myself, I'm about to go to a workout, I get an email or a text or a Slack message, even a nice one. It's like, hey, where are we at with this? It's easy for me to be like, Oh no, right? Or something has to be better, or I have to respond right away. So maybe I miss, maybe I miss my workout dealing with the thing immediately that continues to raise my stress level. And, you know, sometimes, sometimes things happen and you, you know, have to take care of that. But too often than not, it's like looking at and saying like, okay, this, this is, I'm getting ready to do something, say working out or whatever it may be for, for you as the listener. And you should probably go through and do that thing because when you come back to the work, whatever you're creating, the thing that you need to get done, almost you're, you're almost going, definitely going to do it with a clear head, a clear mind, like ready to do a better job.
Oh, absolutely. Being present is everything. And I really think that, you know, we talk about it a lot in entrepreneurship. Everyone knows contextually that being present is the key to everything, but you, especially in higher stress roles, higher stress seasons, you have to be very cognizant in doing the things in those seasons that are the easiest for you when you're at your best. So, right, you know, the workouts, the having certain systems in place, the reading, the, you know, all of the painting just for shits and giggles, right? Right. Um, it's really easy to let those things go when you feel that external pressure. And what's also crazy about the whole thing is very rarely, even if someone is speaking to you, asking something of you, are or is the pressure as great as you are perceiving it, right? So even if someone— not necessarily this is your situation or that you've experienced, but in general, when people ask something of you and they're putting a timestamp on it, or they're maybe pushing out a little bit of urgency, you're always perceiving that in a greater threat than what is actually being delivered. So it's also really important. Yeah, it's also really important to be able to be present with that and be like, okay, is this real? Is this true? Is it actually something that can be addressed in 30 minutes after I do the thing that I have blocked on my calendar that I know that I need to do and then come back? Yeah, it probably is. Is this person going to understand? Are things going to change in 30 minutes? I'm probably good. So, uh, being able to navigate that stress and be present with it is the ultimate unlock to life. And you'll never have it all figured out and it'll always feel like it's changing, but Again, that's the key of being present. You get to be in this moment.
Yeah. And I wanna stay with that, no pun intended. Like what are some other, you gave us a couple of things of like just taking a step back, asking yourself anything else that like practices or prompts or just ways to think about like, oh, I'm starting to feel my meter go up. How can I bring that back down? Especially if it's like, okay, I only have a few minutes, maybe I already did my workout or it's planned for later or whatever it is like. Take a step back mentally and maybe physically to regulate a little bit in a relatively short amount of time?
Yeah, the most relevant thing, because I just did this with a client this morning, first thing, be able to ask yourself, is this real or is this perceived? Is this a feeling or is this a fact, right? If it's a fact, great, do something with it. If it's a feeling, probably need to sit with it for a second. The second thing, because I'm— I truly believe that your, your mind is this beautiful tool, right? We know that contextually too. You can change anything, any experience, by changing the energy that you approach the thing that you're doing with, even if you're stressed, even if there's a timeline, even if there's urgency. So another thing that I often do with clients, just like I did this morning, is decide um, where to go, oh, is this true or is this useful for me? And even if it is true, is it actually useful, or is it actually useful for me in being able to move forward with this task, this project, this thing, the way that I actually want to move forward with this thing? Really good about gaslighting ourselves into the stress, into the worst case scenarios, but how often do we gaslight ourselves into the opposite, right? A lot of people, you know, you want to talk about the fact versus the feeling thing. If it truly is a fact, you know, if you're like, oh, this feels really true for me right now, great. Is it useful for you? Is it putting you in the best place to do your best work? Is it putting you in the right system? Is it keeping you consistent to the things that are intuitive for you? And if it's not, gaslight yourself to get there, because that is the best way to actually change the energy of the thing that you're doing. So asking yourself simple questions that can actually remove the layers of, okay, what's perceived and what is actually true for me? And if it is actually true for me, is it useful? Am I actually going to be able to perform the best with how I'm thinking about this, how I'm feeling about this? And if that's not useful for me, what gets to change? That is the best part. You want to talk about creators, right? We create in our business, but we also create in our life. You have the opportunity to create that at any given moment.
Yeah, I love that. It's such a useful, like, way to think about. And I mean, I know we're talking about entrepreneurship and business and creator content, but these are things that, you know, you can use wherever you're doing in life. You can use it at home, you can use it, uh, where, wherever you are, just like some of these strategies are super, super useful. Um, the next thing that I, one of the other things that I was thinking about, and I know this is very related, um, but we talked about stress and I also want to think about and going to talk about common limiting beliefs that you see for entrepreneurs and like whether it's something like, oh, you know, maybe I could do this, but it's not really going to turn in. It's not really going to turn into anything. So, you know, why, why bother? Or maybe it's something more along the lines of like, well, maybe I can make— we all have like kind of these tiers that we have to go through. It's like, well, maybe I can make $1,000, but I can't make $10,000. Not a— maybe I can make $100, but, but not a million. And we're going to keep gating ourselves and limiting ourselves. And like, there's things about more than even just money for that. But what are some other like limiting beliefs that you see that entrepreneurs, that business creators have to be more?
Yeah, we could spend a whole hour just writing down limiting beliefs and glass ceilings and you name it. You know, I come from a sales background. I ran a sales team for a business coaching agency for 2 years, and then when I left them and went independent. That was what I built this brand that you see now around was basically the energetics of sales. And without listing specific limitations, because they're all going to sound so different for everyone, I think anything that does not light you up is a limitation in and of itself. So, you know, we talk about expectations or waiting for, you know, you gave an example of like, oh, I could do this thing, but it might only make me $1,000. It's not going to make me $10,000? Why is only making $1,000 for something that you want to do labeled bad as opposed to something that might make you $10,000? Because here's what I'll say about that. If that $1,000 thing is something that lights you up, it's exciting for you, but you're not sure if as many people are going to be excited about it as you are, you don't know as many people are going to buy, you have no idea what's going to happen on the other side of you delivering something with that much energy and that much potency. The ripple effect of being able to take action on those things that light you up, that take you where the energy is, is much bigger. So I'm a firm advocate and believer that if something doesn't feel like it's serving you, if it feels like— I mean, I— it's in the definition, but if it feels like it's holding you back in some capacity, then it probably is, and it probably needs to be ruthlessly question. The conditionality with which you're taking action probably needs to be questioned.
So I'm gonna get personal here about, about this, because dating— for me, uh, I've made a lot of changes in my work over the last few months in order to do more of the things that light me up. That's this podcast, that's YouTube videos, that's working in the community. The things that don't light me up as much, but for now, make a lot more money, some types of client work that I need to do. And I look at like my balance sheet, and I look at cash flow. And I'm like, okay, half, like 60% of what I'm bringing in this month is client, is client related. And for now, I can't really like, this is the, this is maybe the limiting belief that I'm telling myself. I can't cut that even by like 20% right now. Maybe I could, but it's like this— what I want to do, and I have been moving more and more into. So like I've made a lot of changes because 3, 4 months ago I was like, I'm not lit up. I'm like, not— this isn't— this isn't working for me the way that I've been working for most of 2024. And so like I started to make these changes, but when you talk about it that way, and especially like I get a YouTube video sponsorship for $1,500, I can run a launch for somebody and make $7,500, but it may not like light me up in the same way. Say that like it's just like an, it's like a, an alarm bell going off for me to pay, pay more attention to that as it goes on or like not even that far ahead, like today.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And here's one thing that's kind of cool about the brain is when you're at a pivotal moment like this where you're starting to switch things up and you're having, uh, because this is— you are not alone in this experience, by the way. I cannot— I mean, I work with people constantly who have built something that's incredibly wonderful, makes great money, and then they kind of hit a point where they're like, the work that I'm doing is not as fun as it used to be. You know, the people that I'm working with aren't as fun as I used to think they were, right? So you start feeling that tinge of dissatisfaction that's like, oh, things are changing for me. And you start to freak out a little bit because you're like, I can't let certain things go because that's my security, that's my livelihood, that's my lifeline. And it's, you know, there's some limitations in there for sure, but there's also ways that we can free up energy within those offers that actually give back to us so that way we can open up more creative possibilities. So one thing, like if I were coaching you, I would look at your business and I would say, okay, with these offers, packages, the client work that you're doing right now, where's the obligation? Are there certain elements of these particular offers that are draining you more than others? And what's cool about that is there might be one deliverable that you go, oh, immediately Hayden, like this one thing I'm doing a lot of it, don't really love doing it anymore, but if I removed it or if I tweaked it to make it a little bit more fun for me, it would open up so much energy. It would open up more possibility, more time for me to focus on, you know, YouTube or more time for me to focus on the podcast. So there are these little ways that without completely overhauling a belief system or without completely sacrificing your security, you can actually go into those things that feel like they're a little limiting and open them up a little bit. So that you can still hold onto some of that security while also opening up new space for new things, right?
Yeah, that's really good advice and I hope people are taking that in, you know, to heart. The, I can think of a couple of ways that like now I'm here encouraging myself also. Okay, well I did give like the last proposal that I sent out to a potential client, I left a couple of things out as like, if I put this in, and I go really hard on it because that's what I'll do, then I won't feel great about it. So I'm disclaimer in here is like, if you want me to do this, it's going to cost a lot more because like it takes up a lot of, a lot of energy for me. As it turned out, they was like, hey, we decided to like go with a different service. And I was actually like, okay, yes to this at the price and kind of the scope that they were asking for, then I would have like hated it day one. And then like another, another thing that a client, a current client who I really do like working with, asked me like, hey, will you do this super like in the weeds, like sorting through data to like find all this stuff? And I was like, ugh, even as much as like ChatGPT has helped me with that stuff, that sounds terrible. But I was like, hold on, uh, let me think about that. And I went and found a person who I know has been friends with me for a while. I was like, hey, will you help me with this? I'll pay you like $1,000. To do this thing. And he was like, oh, I love— I was like, he's like, no, no problem at all. And so now I'm like, okay, here you go, buddy, you get to do this. I trust you, you can like go, go through the, the client's data. And, um, so that's— those are, those are a couple ways. Like, is there any way that you can delegate? Is there any way that you can, yeah, kind of build in, build in some, some margin or just be more, uh, specific about the scope? Already been really helpful.
Yeah. And Just hearing you talk about that, it kind of brings up this conversation of, you know, like what I'm gonna say, the collective you, not the specific you here, what your values are when you are running and leading your business. Because there are some people who want the profit over anything, right? And well, because you— I even watched you went, uh, at one point in time, uh, that's your body saying no thank you. That's your intuition saying please God, like, listen to me, I'm trying to tell you how I feel about this thing. And so It really all, it like depends on your values sometimes too. Like, are you okay with sacrificing a little bit of that lit up, I love the work that I'm doing energy for the great paycheck, you know, you're going to get with it. Great, do it. If that's what aligns for you at this season of life, absolutely do it. You know, there are a lot of people who are on the flip side who are like, I think there's a way for me to have both right now in this season. And what might that look like if that's true for me? Can I follow the feeling? Can I take a little bit of a leap and trust that even if there's a momentary gap, I know that I can resolve that on the other side, or I know that there's something better coming in after that? So I'm also just always curious, like, what people's values are when they are taking on client work, when they are putting new projects out. Because again, you want to talk about creativity and getting back into your body, it's always communicating with you in some capacity if you're at a point where you want to listen and follow the advice of your body in those moments. So it's always just a fun thing to think about and be curious about.
What are some— I really, I really like how you like caught that, uh, for me. There's like humps even from our body that we could, that we could pay attention to. Like, oh, if your body is kind of doing this, you're feeling this way, arm bell that's going off that you should pay attention to.
Yeah, one that It's different for everyone because everyone has different relationships with being in their body. I know that sounds like very esoteric and wooey, but when it comes to like trauma, childhood, a lot of people just have never spent a day in their body. They've lived primarily in survival mode or in their head. So the strength at which you hear some of these visceral cues can change, can seem nonexistent. One that's especially potent for most people is language. So I always like, there's no gray area in the body's response. It's either yes or no. And if it's, mm, maybe one day, or I could probably figure out how to do that, it's no. And it's not a no forever, it's a no right now. It's not definitive enough for your body. So that's a good one. But if you're really in tune with your body, you can actually feel different sensations. So for me, when something is a yes, when I'm truly excited about something— something that can be confusing for people is excitement and fear are the same energy in the body. They both move you into action incredibly quickly. But there's a difference between the two. So excitement tends to rise and pressure tends to sink.— or you can think of it as expansion and contraction. I feel excitement like in my head, it feels very floaty, very expansive, very like, like a breath, like a big inhale. Whereas fear or some resistance is always like a sinking in my stomach. It's a little bit heavier. It comes with a lot of mental justification, like I could do this thing and then I would have to move this over here and I would have to wait to do this thing, or I could squeeze it in here, I could crunch— you know what I mean? There comes— it's a lot of maneuvering.
Maneuvering.
Uh, so those are fun ones to play with. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Because think about intuitively, when you are presented with an opportunity that feels aligned for you, how often do you have to justify it? Yeah, never, never. And if you— it's funny because the things that we know are aligned for us, we feel like we should justify because they're probably crazy enough that we should, or we have this conditioning to want to justify them to the world around us. But we don't because we're like, this is the thing that I want and this is the thing that I'm doing no matter what. Okay, on the flip side, it's usually a little bit different. It's like, well, this is why I'm gonna do this thing, and you're just up here the whole entire time. So it's kind of fun to play with those bodily cues. If you want to play more with it and you want to strengthen that dialogue between, you know, what you're doing and what your body is trying to lead you to, start with simple yes or no questions. Like, ask yourself obvious yes questions like Do I love coffee? I'm a coffee fanatic. Okay. When I ask myself, do I love coffee? Energy rises, goes immediately to my head. It's like, oh, okay. I could, I have just associated that specific sensation in my body with a yes. Now ask myself a no question. Do I love tea? Absolutely not. It is a sinking, it's a contraction. Now I have just, now I have just created a neural pathway in my brain that links that sensation with that specific response. So you can do that in the simplest of ways in your life and your business. Start out small and it will dramatically change the relationship that you have, not only with how you think about limiting beliefs, but just how you move on opportunity, period.
Yeah, I really like that. That's so simple, really useful for everyone watching and listening. Another, another thing that kind of hit for me a little, um, was this I was like, the— when you said, why can't I have both? Or why can't I do— like, for me sometimes, and I think for, for other people, but I'll just, you know, I can speak for myself, is like sometimes that have both actually turns into more of like a limiting belief because it's like, oh, well, because I want to be able to exercise whenever I want, or because I want to have like a big family or whatever it might be. Those things are both true. But it's like, well, because I'm committed to this, more than XYZ entrepreneur business thing, that means that I can't— I probably can't make $250,000, $500,000 in a year. And I just like, what's the right word? I like rationalize that in my head. So it's like, well, I have both, but I like still want more. I like not quite there.
Yeah. Yeah. It's the classic, it's trade-off. Yeah. There is. If I want this thing, then I'm probably going to have to in some capacity sacrifice this other thing that I also want. And that's a fun opportunity to play with in your business too, because is that actually true or is that true? And you have experience with that because that's been your primary belief system, right? Having an and I get to have my cake and I get to eat it too. Is— runs wildly in opposition to how we have been raised and trained, especially in an industry that, you know, prides itself on open-mindedness and possibility and all of these things. You really have to work hard, um, in doing that. And so one thing that's cool about starting to ponder these new mindset shifts is that you don't have to have any sort of answer immediately, and you're probably not going to get any sort of answer ASAP. But you can start asking yourself what I call generative questions. So these questions use different elements of your brain, right? If you're familiar with like the reticular activating system, when your brain is told to look for something, it will start seeing it in its environment.
And that's how a lot of luck, opportunity, and possibility, you know, like the red car phenomenon.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
We—
it's not that that red car is coming around more frequently, it's just that we are actually telling our brain to out for something that we have never prompted it to look out for before. So, you know, in this scenario, to open yourself up to what that 'and' scenario— you know, can I have this and have this? Why does it have to be a trade-off? You can start asking yourself these generative questions like, hmm, I wonder what it would be like for me to have this and this. Or, hmm, I wonder what would have to happen in order for me to have this and this? Or, hmm, I wonder what I could let go of for me to have this and this? And if you're super woo and you believe in something like sleep hypnosis, you can ask yourself these questions before bed, and maybe over one night, a week, couple weeks, you will guaranteed start seeing creative solutions to these generative questions that you're asking yourself, simply because instead of telling yourself, your focus is not on you know, I have to sacrifice this thing in order to have a little bit more of this thing, you now are thinking about, hmm, I wonder what it would look like for me to have both. I wonder what I could let go of so I could have both of these things, right? Now your brain's looking for it instead of looking for the opposite of it. So it's kind of fun.
It kind of strengthens your relationship. I'm not against super woo.
Well, honestly, who can afford to not be woo these days, if we're being completely honest? Like, it— you can You can keep doing what everyone's been doing and you can be stressed and you can be miserable. And like we've talked about, stress is automatically a part of the equation if you want to be successful at every single level. That woo is what helps you process the stress so you can actually create what you want with the energy that stress generates for you. So I just think, I don't think anyone can afford to not be a little crazy, a little woo, because what's the alternative? The alternative doesn't feel very good, doesn't feel very useful either.
Yeah. And I think like to your point, when we get into this entrepreneur, founder, creator mode life, you're going to have to be a little crazy, be like a little, like at least a little bit like self-absorbed, a little bit irrational to think, well, these ideas that I have, I bet other people want to hear about them too. We're just keeping these journals for ourselves or like making I mean, even if you're making, say, like home movies videos, because like we were going through like a really busy, like transformational time as a family. I'm like, I'm just going to start recording like what it's like to work at a startup and to like live in like 3 cities in a year, 4 cities in a year, like all this, all this different stuff. And like, I was just doing it because like my, my wife and kids liked watching the videos later on. And even still, like, couple of months ago, they're like, hey, let's watch one of the old, like, you know, day in the life vlogs, which I don't really do anymore. And they're like, you need to do these again. It's like, yeah, probably just need to get back to making it for the sake of making it, creating for the sake of creating.
Yeah, it's, it's, it opens up completely different ways of experiencing your work in the world. And to go back to the point of you have to be a little bit crazy, you have to be a little bit self-absorbed.
Everyone—
I'm a firm believer that purpose is not something you do, it's something that you feel, and over the course of your lifetime, your purpose, the expression of it, it's going to change a million times. Okay, look at your career as an entrepreneur. What you were doing on day one, probably not what you're doing today. I know that I have the most spaghetti-ish path on the planet, but that's all a part of our unique magic. It's not that we weren't following our purpose before or we weren't following our purpose in the middle. It's that as you grow and as you follow, you know, those little those crazy thoughts that, you know, make you wonder like, am I actually bonkers for thinking of this? Or is this, you know, my intuition speaking to me? That's your specific flavor of purpose trying to express itself in this season of life. So, you know, it is, it's fun to be a little bit crazy and it's also equal parts, you know, secure and analytical for you to trust in that crazy because it's ultimately your unique stamp on the world. It's your innovation. It's the piece that makes you different from every other person who's in your industry or who has done something similar. That's what makes you, you, are those crazy thoughts, those delusional thoughts.
One, one thing that I wanted to ask you about, so in a few weeks with the Hey Creator community, I actually even haven't like officially announced this yet, we're doing a 30-day Creator Challenge, and it's like this mix of— have you heard of 75 Hard? Hard 75? Yeah.
Yeah.
So I did it twice here. Okay. Wow. Good for you. I've never, I've never made it. My brother, my brother did it and he thought, he thought it was amazing. Um, but I'm, we're doing something in the community where it's like a combination of content creation. So if you're familiar with like Ship 30 for 30, which is an essay every day, I was like, if I combine these two things and what I came up with, what we're going to do. Is create a small piece of content every day, commit to 20 minutes of learning about your craft, and clarify your goals and vision through journaling. And I thought about, as you were talking about this, I thought about, I thought about the clarify aspect specifically. So if like, if you were helping us spend like 5 to 10 minutes journaling, vision casting, meditating, manifesting, whatever, whatever it might be. How would you recommend people spend those like 10 minutes clarifying what they want? What kind of things could they write about, think about? I feel like we've talked about a lot of them, but like people spend those 10 minutes doing that would be like super helpful in that context.
Oh, that's a really good question. If they're clarifying, are these like macro goals, like things that they want to achieve? Just by the end of 30 days, or are they things that they want to achieve?
No, I'm thinking like big, more, more big 3 years. Like I think about for myself, like even having, telling myself, like having the conversation in my clarity sessions of like, I'm not gonna settle for just being like, well, it's a trade-off. Yeah. Uh, like what would it look like?
What would it look like if this, and this is the life that I wanna have. Yeah. So that will require kind of two things. One, I think being able to get into, because we're never chasing anything material, right? We think we are. We're always chasing what we think the goal is going to give us, right? So the money makes us feel more secure or the clients make us feel more fulfilled. So get beyond what the material value of said goal is and into what's actually the feeling. Okay. So that's component number one. Once you know what feeling you're working for, comes infinitely easier in your day-to-day to take action because you're only ever going to take action on the things that make you feel that thing, right? Okay, so it weeds out a lot of the noise. The second thing that I would focus on is what you have to let go of in order to be that person or feel that thing. So for you, it might be a particular limiting belief. It might be you putting boundaries up with yourself saying, I recognize that this is a belief that I have. It's not useful for me. This is not what I want to be true in a year. So I'm going to let this go. I don't know if you're familiar. Um, what book is it? It might be The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks. Have you ever read that before? I think I have my copy over here too. There we go. Yep. Yes. Wonderful book for anyone who has not read it. Uh, I would put it in my top 5, like, life-changing books for sure. Uh, but he gives you a very easy image of what letting go looks like because I think that can be a little bit mystical for people. Like, what does it mean to let go? Like, what do you mean? I just let it go, right? Yeah, he gives you this image of like a tennis ball, right? Oh, the tennis ball is great. Yeah, if you have your hand out, put the tennis ball in your hand, okay? This is a form of letting go. Let the tennis ball just sit. You don't have to move it. You don't have to do anything with it. You don't have to throw it. You don't have to bounce it. Okay, or you can actually— I suppose that would be let it be. Or you can grab it, flip your hand over, let it go. It's simply the choice to not pick that thing again. So when you're clear about what's not useful for you, what you don't want to be true in a year from now, the simple decision that I am done picking this thing up every single time it comes around is the next step. Okay, because, you know, uh, feeling your feelings, right? We as entrepreneurs have to have this unbelievable ability to not connect to everything that our brain tells us, every thought that comes in. It's not always ours, right? So it's feeling a feeling, sitting with a thought is just the ability to recognize that it's coming in and to just let it go.
Recognize it.
Like, I don't have to get caught up in that. I don't have to pick that thing up. I don't have to intellectualize it. I don't have to make something out of it. That's letting it go, okay? And the more that you do that— if you imagine in my hands right now, I've got a cup here and a cup here. This cup's full of water. What if the life is trying to give me something and it has to pour it into this cup? What's gonna happen if it tries to give me anything more in that cup?
Chaos.
The water is going to flow out the top, it's going to make a mess, it's going to go everywhere. So if I want to receive more in my life, in my business, I have to take the cup that's full of limiting beliefs, projects that I'm not excited about, clients I'm not excited about, and I have to pour some out. I have to let some go so that there's open space in the cup for me to receive something new. That visual would be a lot cooler if I had two cups with me and you could actually see. It's, you know, this concept of letting things go can often feel feel so futile because when you are feeling stressed, your brain's figuring out how to survive, and those thoughts feel like survival. Okay, you feel like you can't afford to let that thing go, but you not letting that thing go is what's stopping new opportunities, new ideas, new thoughts from being able to actually come in and integrate into your life and into your business. So roundabout way of saying that, I would heavily—
like, you connected everything. It's like, you know, we started talking Started talking about stress and then like seeing how like, and even asking yourself a question as you're like kind of like deciding whether or not to drop the tennis ball. The other thing that I love about the tennis ball analogy is like, it's bouncy. It will come back. Temptation to be like, oh, it's right there. I'm going to grab it again. Be like, okay, I got to let it go. Second, third, until it just stops.
Yeah. And the ability to say like, it's bouncing back to me. A lot of people will be like, well, it must be important because it's coming back to me. No, no, it's not. That other thought that you keep entertaining, but you keep shutting out is wildly more important than the one that is no longer useful to you anymore.
So yeah, you're 100% right. Have you, uh, are you a Seinfeld fan? This might be like too— this might be too niche.
I think, I think I was a little too young for Seinfeld.
I'm aging myself. Uh, there's a scene where like Elaine is trying to break up with her boyfriend. She can never break up, can't do it. Jerry's You got back together with Buddy and she's like, I really want to break up with him. He's not— we're not good for each other. And he's like, oh, well, you're just not giving enough time. He's— you're not giving enough time. You're not trying hard enough. He's like, breaking up is like pushing over a vending machine. You can't like just shove into it once. You got to like get some momentum going back and forth until finally you push it over. It's not just a simple thing when you're talking about this. That's something I— that's something I thought of even like, you know, it'll hit— it'll hit for some people.
Well, and what's funny too about, uh, limitations specifically, or when you're trying to re-pattern some sort of thought, I also like the analogy of like cleaning out your house, right? With every intention to clean out your house, to open up more space, to make space for new things to come in, what happens before your house gets clean? It gets so messy. It's absolute chaos. That is what's gonna happen the moment that you make the decision to let something go, you are going to experience absolute chaos, especially in your mind around that thing that you're letting go, because your brain's like, no, we've been surviving on this for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. You know, we can't let this thing go. What do you mean? So you're gonna experience chaos in your mind when you try to let that thing go, but you're also going to experience chaos around you, because again, as your field of vision changes and you start focusing on different things, you now see what's no longer working for you more clearly, more intensely, and it again can kind of kick up those stress responses of like, oh my gosh, too much change, don't know what's next. And you have to lean into that, okay? Because it's just the messy cleaning out before all of that space opens up for new things. Again, it's gonna get chaotic and messy before it opens up, always.
Yeah, I, I love how I was saying we, we came full circle with all this. We were talking about the stress response and especially like asking, is this, is this fact or feeling getting in, getting into your body? And we're kind of, we're coming up to like the end of this. And so I'm wondering like, how can we like put some of these pieces together to have a few, either a few questions to ask or a few exercises to do like mentally or physically that can, that can help us like do overcome some of these limiting beliefs and like things that keep us stuck in our entrepreneur or creator journey?
Yeah, absolutely. Um, I would start with some of the things that we talked about today, but the biggest one, you know, kind of being, what do I want? But beyond what do I want, like what's useful for me, right? Are these thoughts that I'm thinking, are these projects that I'm taking on, are they making me feel the way that I want to feel? I'm a firm believer. I've got a lot of happy clients who would say the same thing that When you are not holding yourself to that standard, you're not living in alignment, okay? Because your natural operating pattern in life is to feel good. The journey of life is to figure out how to continually keep feeling good despite what's happening inside or around us. So, um, ruthlessly question the conditionality that you place on the things that you believe, whether it's projects you're creating, you know, mindsets that you have around your business, things that you want to have in a year, and how you think those things have to happen, or how you— how quickly you think that they could happen. Why do you think that? Why can't it happen quicker? Why can't it happen today? Why can't you have your cake and eat it too? Okay. And if the, the responses to those questions don't feel good, something gets to change. Not has to, gets to. And that's wildly, wildly empowering, and that will open up a complete world of creative possibility for you that you haven't been able to see because you haven't been thinking like that. You haven't even given yourself the time or the space to ask those questions.
Yeah, yeah.
And I mentioned those generative questions earlier. That's powerful, man. If you just have the ability to say, I don't need to fix anything in this very moment because things are good, right? I'm making money, I got clients, things are good. But knowing in the future I would like things to change, I'm just not quite sure how I want those things to change. Just start pondering it. I wonder what would have to happen in order for me to have this and this? I wonder what I would have to let go of so that I could have this and this? And you will start seeing the solutions to those new problems start to rear their heads, and then you can actually do something with it.
Hayden, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the Hey Creator Show. We let everybody know where they can find out more about you, uh, where they could work with you, and just follow, follow along Yeah, absolutely.
I am primarily on Twitter, Hayden_Flor. I recently just started my Substack too, which I'm very excited about. Oh, nice.
Okay. We should talk about that in another episode.
We absolutely should. I mentioned to someone yesterday that it feels like old— I don't know how long you've been on Twitter business-wise, but it feels like old Twitter over there.
Yeah.
It feels fun and fresh. So very excited about that. I would love to connect with people. Over there. And then in terms of how to work with me, all my links are on my Twitter. So if you're curious about programs that are available— mastermind, one-on-one— all that information's over there.
Perfect.
Hayden, thanks so much.
Thank you.
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