Can You Still Be A "Content Creator" In 2025?

Hey creators, 2024 was an amazing year and I'm so excited for 2025. In this episode of the podcast, Tim and I gave you our best predictions and trends to look out for in the creator economy going into 2025. We talk about the importance of community connection and seeing people in person. As you might guess, we also talk about AI and its impact on the nature of work and the kind of AI agents that might be helpful. For your creator business. We also talk about why just being good probably isn't going to be good enough anymore. And we talk about how working hard is going to become cool again. And probably a better way to say it is that having a purpose is something that you have to define and follow and fight for in 2025. Let's get into the show. Tim, my number 1 prediction, and I would probably even say that even though these aren't stack ranked, this isn't like the hype meter, It's still the number one thing that I'm one, most looking forward to, and I think is going to be most impactful going into 2025. And that is connection. That is communities. That's live events. That is like having live calls. It's doing things with people in places. You could also like, what is it our guy Jordan, you know, Jordan Mix says, do within, do cool things do cool things with cool people in cool places. Yeah. So I think like that. So shout out to Jordan. That's something that I believe very strongly. And even to talk about Jordan also, like the connection of, yeah, hats like that, like having— like I'm even wearing a shout out to Adam, a sweatshirt, Dadpreneur. That's like a, you know, that Adam, sent me as, as a gift for being on his podcast. I think things like that are going to become more important. They're going to become more valuable. And it's going to be a top trend going into 2025.

I heavily agree with that. The magic of being in person, first of all, as like a key lever, I think it's what you're really kind of saying with this is like ways we just talked about this off the call, but like ways to be in person with these people that you meet online, right? Like, being a creator is awesome for all of the, the reasons of you get to work from anywhere you want, you get to make any kind of content you want, you get to build a business from your laptop, like, and there's a bunch of people championing that. But I have found the most important and impactful moments of my career have been the times where I've been in person with the people that I work with. And I kind of kick myself for not, like, pushing to do more of that with a lot of the, the clients and people that I know. Through this stuff. Um, that piece of it, but also like 100% on a connection. I think a lot of the reason people are starting to realize now— this kind of goes into one of mine— is that people are realizing the connection of other people online is really just like looking around and seeing other people who are doing the things that you're doing, or like the things that you want to be doing. And, uh, the connection piece that I make is that every creator at least will be aware of or think that they should start vlogging in 2025. I know there's a bunch of barriers for a lot of people to that, but just in general, the process of sharing these things about your life that aren't that relevant to the work, right? Like if I work in video stuff, you might be able to tell in the background, but like you don't need to know that I love basketball, right? Like you need to know that I can edit videos for you, or I know what I'm talking about when I help you with your video content. But if you and I share a love of basketball, That makes it so much easier to work together or to like be friends through the work. Right. And same thing in the content, like in a remote world, we're looking for other people on the internet who seem to be living the lives we want, doing the work we want to do, have the friends we want to have. And we build relationships with people in our head that like are doing these things, right? We follow their every move. We like their content. We help, it helps inform who we are, but on the flip side, sharing everything about your life, your work, the people in your world, you create these relationships without even like knowing it. Right. And if you want to get traditional here for a second, my girlfriend Liv uses Blake Lively's hair care products.

Right. Yeah.

Right. She trusts Blake Lively. She watched Gossip Girl and you build a lot of trust with someone when you've been watching them for that long. Of time, right? Like we're so reruns.

Yeah, my, my wife, the majority of the supplements she gets are from people that she has like seen and watched on, on YouTube or on Instagram for, for a long time. And she's like, okay, I trust the kind of product that this person would make.

Yeah. So I think people are going to go— more creators are going to go all in on vlogging and sharing their lives because you can accidentally create these relationships that turn into thousands of dollars of work together, sales, one-on-one coaching, and just dedicated fans. Like Zach Pogreb had a thing the other day, I posted it, and like so many creators have silent super fans that will never—

I saw you post about that. Yeah, we'll share that. That's really interesting.

Yeah, they'll never share, they'll never comment, they'll never like, they'll never reach out. But there are people out there who love you that you will never know, right? And you just create these relationships by sharing who you actually are and not just like delivering value, which we'll talk about later for a different prediction of mine. But that's, that's my take is that, Matt, I know that I've convinced you on this. I've done it, done it for myself. And I think a lot of creators are really starting to understand what vlogs actually do for you as a creator and as a business.

Yeah, great points. Great points to follow up on my number 1 with connection. What do you, what do you got? What's, what's one of your tops?

The related one to that. Talking about value, I'll just do it now. Cause I think it's like an astute point that people don't really see. So long we've optimized for value and that word might be cringe for some people. Maybe it's not. Maybe you, this whole time you've been thinking like, oh, I need to be the most valuable person. I need to do tons of work. I need to be the expert in my field so I can give so much value that people have to follow me. It's becoming so far from the truth of like what actually matters. And it's that relationship piece that we just talked about, that connection piece. But the quickest way to get that connection piece, and the point that I'm trying to make is that humor is the new value. So if you're listening to this and you have group chats or you have friends, are you more likely to send them like 5 steps to make better content? Or are you going to send them a meme of a kid like falling down the Bell Isle slide way too hard and like hitting his head at the bottom? Or like some crazy football play or something that's going to make their skin look better. Like you're probably going to send the funny thing and these platforms optimize for that.

I even think about that in terms of like in a group chat. So I met like a bunch of friends and I, we go on an annual golf trip. And so we have like just that trip group has a chat that is on and off throughout the year. But I even think about like, it's very clear, like all of us are interested in some way of improving our golf game a little bit, but still like people have sent hundreds of memes and GIFs and clips that are funny. And I don't think, even though this is golf where we want to get at least a little bit better at golf, shave a few strokes, no one has shared something that said like, hey, here's how you can improve your short game, here's how you can make more putts within 10 feet, even though that is clearly something that is helpful to all of us and would make the trip better if one of your buddies like could not stop like getting into the water, you know, like, like it would make your trip better.

But that's not what we're here for. We're here for the connection. We're here for the laughs. And like, Adam Mosseri, I don't know what his title is.

That's such a good point or a way to think about it.

Yeah. The lead, Adam Mosseri is like the, I don't know if he's a CEO or what his title is, but he's the director of whatever at Instagram.

Yeah.

And he has come out and said that shares like are their number one metric to like tell if a piece of content is good and worth like amplifying. Right. So, as humans, we are so much more likely to share a funny thing than we are a helpful thing. Like we, I know about myself, like I want, I spend all day not working, making my friends laugh, like with like funny tweets that I found before they did, or like just like making a joke about something that happened in high school. Right. So that's, that's the piece of it. And if all content like is supposed to drive shares, you really, really need to lean into the humor piece of it because A, it will separate you from other people who are also talking about your thing, but B, it's just like genuinely what people actually want. In the first take of this, like you mentioned, you called the, you called them a creator cartel. Like that is funny. Like that is a, that is a funny thing to say. Right. And like, that is something we're actually—

gotta control the product distribution, clamp down on competitors, be ruthless.

That's a funny word. And right. And that, like, I want to tell someone else, like. Who do you think the creator cartel is? Like, that's a funny conversation we can have from something that you said, right? So look for ways to add humor in your editing, in your structure, in your stories, in what you show, what you do, um, because it might boost you to a place you didn't know you could get to.

I like, I like that a lot. It's, I don't really have anything to add except like this very anecdotal, but now relevant piece that yesterday, yesterday. Yesterday morning I tweeted, hey, my wife and I got new phones on Sunday and she just took the phone, the iPhone out of the box and threw the box away. I didn't know that you could do that with Apple products. I have probably every Apple box that I've ever used, like stored somewhere. I just kind of see them because like the design of it, the aesthetic, the like way that you kind of pull and it kind of like resists and then it releases is like, it's like. Opening a jar. I don't know. It's just great. And she's just like, new phone. There you go.

I was like, she's like, do you want me to throw your—

I was like, I have to take this. I don't know why I'm— and so that did nothing for like half the day. And then like overnight it got picked, it got picked up somewhere because this thing had like 1,000 views this morning and now it has 25,000 views. And it's a lot of like, how dare she? My wife loads my drawer of empty apple boxes. They're worth something. And I was like, this is, this is the millennial version of like the handyman, the handyman mindset of like, well, this screw, this washer is going to come in handy at some point. Right. And it's just like, maybe, I don't know.

Yeah. For me, that's a box of cords. But what you're, what you're alluding to is like, you said something that other people thinking, or like have as a conscious belief, but like haven't said or hasn't been put that way, right? And you said it kind of like a silly way, like, oh, my wife did it, like, what do I do? Like, the quickest way to be funny is just to like say the thing that people are actually thinking that like elicits laughter for some reason, right? So like, um, being the person who does that, like, if you— maybe you aren't like naturally a funny person, maybe you're not extroverted, but I guarantee you can say what people— other people aren't thinking.

Works great too.

Yeah, but won't say like Uh, that's the quickest way, like making an astute observation, like even this one, this, this topic that I had isn't like funny, but you laughed, right? Then laugh builds connection and build relationships and we're, we're, we're on, we're off and away. So like, look for ways to be funny in your content because it's more shareable. If shares are the most rewarded thing, then this is the way you should be hammering home.

The second one for me, and I feel really strongly about this. So I probably believe the most strongly in the. The connection, the community piece that I shared before. But the other one for me, and I'm still thinking through how to like say this well, but I told you in the pre-show and you're like, that hits, is I believe that work and effort and self-improvement are going to become like cool again and something that people strive for and want to get better at. The thing that I believe is important about this is that it's also an iteration of this ongoing attempt that we— that many people are making to become more self-aware and to become kinder to ourselves. But I think at times that can kind of pull ourselves back into like, well, like a little too much of a nihilistic perspective. It's like, well, what does it mean to even try? Or maybe I can just be okay, like being— being okay. And I think there's something to that. But I also believe and have seen seen a shift. Maybe it's just in my, like, social media bubble to, like, it's cool to work hard, it's cool to go hard. And it really— what I'm saying is that, like, it's important and cool and meaningful to have purpose again.

Yeah.

And when you have something that you're working towards, even if you're working really hard at it, especially if you're working hard at it, if you have that vision, like, that's going to become something that people are attracted to again. And the only like little caveat that I would say about this, like I don't mean, and this is like marrying the self-awareness and the like full human perspective and development is like, I still think that like if you have a family like I do, that doesn't mean that I'm ignoring my kids because I'm like building Hey Creator or I want to get my YouTube channel to 200,000. But it does mean that I'm going to start talking about, hey, I could go to sleep and get a full, a full 8 hours or however much my kids wake up during that. But instead, I'm going to stay awake from 10 PM to 12 PM so that I can edit this video. And I'm going to talk about that a little bit. And I'm going to be proud that I'm willing to do that. Or I'm going to wake up at 4 in order to do the same thing at the other edge of the day. And so I think that there's going to be more admiration and more like cheering on and more like self-idealization that is going to start to become popular and cool again in 2025.

Yeah, I have two pieces to add. On that. The first one, this isn't one of my predictions, but like it's kind of adding on to what you just said is flexing is a good thing.

I saw you talking about that. Yeah.

In 2025 and beyond, like it is your only way in the door. So if you say up, if you say I stayed up for 2 hours late night, kids are put to bed, it's been a hard week, but I still got this video out. That gives you credibility to like, like it's okay to brag and flex who you worked with. How hard you work, like those are things that should be celebrated. The other piece of this is like, as far as like purpose, this might be like my own realization recently, but like who you are working on stuff with, like that really helps drive the purpose of it. I wrote a newsletter about this, like who is greater than what is greater than how. This, the connection of like who you're working on stuff with, and I have a, I have a prediction about this. It's like who you're working on stuff with really, really matters on that purpose piece. And it matters as a creator, especially we hammered the relationship part of this. Like if you are aligned with the right people, that gives you that purpose. And like working hard becomes easy, working on complicated, like stressful things becomes easy if that people part is there. That's a tongue twister. But overall, like those are the two takeaways I have from that. And I think it's cool. I literally like in between the time, like we got on this call and we started recording, I saw a tweet that was like, you need to work extremely hard. And I'm like, yes, Matt's exactly right. People are, are pumping this message because it's true. Like you, you do need to work hard and there has been a lot of culture in the creator space because you can do this from anywhere and do anything you want. It's kind of been like optimizing for that freedom. And I think people are like, there's more people coming over to the right side where it's like, no, the hard work is actually the purpose. Like it's actually, that's what makes you feel most rewarded. Not the free days on a beach with working from your laptop. It's like the cool work with the cool people. As we talked about at the beginning.

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna like do something real quick that probably isn't ideal for like just the cadence of this, but I feel like I want to like talk about my next one real quick also, cuz I think it's very related. Uh, the thing for me is that I believe that AI content and especially like what, uh, my friend Pete Senna, he has a great newsletter, uh, called Forward Obsessed. He talks about something called agentic agents. And I saw Greg Eisenberg talking about this as well. AI agents is that I believe that we're still probably a year or two like away from these being like a little bit more mainstream. But what you're going to be able to do with AI through prompting, through, you know, some AI-driven coding through a tool like Cursor that we talked about some with Dan Shipper in a previous episode, You're going to be able to like basically build or someone that like, this is also an agency opportunity. This is a freelance opportunity for someone. You're going to be able to build your own custom, like AI agent that can do exactly what you need to do instead of like, instead of a virtual assistant, you're just going to be able to code that up and maintain that. And the way that this connects to the work and the effort piece is like, I think previously. And there are still a lot of people looking at this saying like, oh, I can get AI agents to do all this stuff for me so I don't have to work anymore. And instead, I think the people who are really going to like get the most out of this, not just from a financial perspective, from a growth perspective, but from a personal development and self-actualization piece, is people who can take these AI agents and And yes, get them to do the things that they're just not as stoked to do. Like I think about after, and I know there's already some automation that could help me get a little bit better at this, but it's still clunky. AI agents are going to make this thing I'm about to say is like just as simple as like, okay, I finished the Hey Creator call. It gets downloaded. Even if like something's automated, I still have to like do 15-ish minutes of work at least to 30 minutes if I want to like improve the show notes, if I want to do all this stuff. That's 30 minutes that I could, I think, in the next year program an AI agent to do all of these things for me. So that— not that I can get 30 minutes back to not work at all, but instead so I can get 30 minutes to do something that only I can do, something that is the— as, as our friend Kayhee says, the $10,000 an hour work or the most unique thing that I can do Making videos, getting on a call with, with a client or a customer or a fan. That's what like AI agents are going to make those types of work, uh, not obsolete, but they're going to take so many of those things over. And the people who are going to win are going to be people who take the opportunity that gives them and use that to like pursue even better versions of themselves and their content that they could have previously.

Yeah, I love that. And that is a key piece. Like what we said before, like the advertisement of this, all this creator work is that you get to do it and you can work for 2 hours a day and you can make all this money.

Right.

And like, like you should be looking for ways to get you to more of that alignment in the work that you are doing because work is like a, the, the most successful people find work rewarding, like the work that they're doing, but they're also doing a lot of aligned work.

So.

There's so many things on the video editing side. There's so many things I don't want to do, like, but that are part of the process, you know? Like, I hate making the first cut. Like, like, I know that I'm good once I make the first cut, but like, it's annoying. And like, having Autopod or like whatever thing, like, helps me go in and make the first cut so then I can actually make real creative decisions about the video. That's my personal example. But like, if that's a really good example, if everyone had that for their thing, Right. You could be doing so much more of like the unique thing that makes you, right, you.

And like that, the actual, it's the actual cool editing that makes a video pop. It's not just like, hey, let me go in and make sure that all those times I or Matt or whoever like didn't talk for 2 minutes and I have to clip that out like autopods get it like Descript, you know, Underlord does that pretty well also. But that's still something that even though the amount of time has shrunk from and this is still helpful, we're still seeing versions of this where like that first cut, when I do it for myself, takes instead of taking, let's say, an hour, now it takes 20 minutes. We're already seeing versions of that because like, okay, now those 40 minutes, how can I put that into a great edit? And that time is just going to shrink more and more and more.

Related to AI and like our feelings around work and how much we're working, I've been seeing creators that I follow, Charlie Light has posted about this, Jamie Gannon, she's posted about about this where like, uh, for each of their industries they've said this, and I think it's true for creators too, is that the bare minimum is not good enough, right? To just be using AI to make content and just like being okay with how it comes out, or for your writing content, or for your video editing, or for any sort of content, or even like the way you write your scripts and stories, or any sort of content that you make, because we are content creators, the bare minimum is not enough. And I think a lot of this year I gave Good sage advice in the creator community of like, hey, just get started. Just make, just start making content. Like you will get a hang of it. Like here are some ways to help you out. But as I kind of look at the landscape and I look at how many people can do okay content that like the same promise of like the leverage of you can work for a little bit and get a huge return on your work. That is especially true for your content. And I think. The bare minimum just simply isn't close to being enough. Like you need to have luxury looking and sounding content. You need to have excellent copy. You need to have a beautiful design, stand out in every facet. And for some people it's really tough to hear. It's especially tough to hear for me because I'm a good video editor. There's so many things I can't do. There's so many creators I follow that do stuff that I have no clue how to do, but that can either bum you out. Or it can inspire you to actually like take some agency and build those skills and become that creator that you want to be. Right. And I think—

let me interrupt you real quick because I think this ties in. I have a couple of thoughts about this and I certainly let you finish, but I think this ties into like my effort and like it's cool to work hard piece. Yeah.

So it's not only cool to work hard, but it's like you have, you have to.

Yeah, you have to. And like it's admirable and people are going to cheer you on. The thing, the, and yeah, I have felt this, you and I have talked about this for my own YouTube channel, like, hooray for me, I'm closing in on 100,000 subscribers. By the time you watch this, I might be at, I might be at 100,000. But I also know that if I just kind of keep making okay productivity content, then I'll still grow consistently, even if it was like, okay, well, it's most important to post weekly. And if I do, if I get back to doing that, I'd probably grow to like 120 or 130 followers, subscribers in 2025. But if I say yes and yes, post weekly and make it really damn good, then I have a chance at getting to 200,000 subscribers next year. I have a chance at getting to a million subscribers in 3 to 4 to 5 years. And what can I do with the ideas and the values and the purpose that I have in my life with a million YouTube subscribers? And that is something that I'm excited about. That is something that I am pushing towards. I have, I have a pushback for you as well, but I'll let you respond to that first.

I mean, you're saying, you're saying all the right things. The, the high bar should be an encouraging factor. Like, as just as difficult as it is to make excellent content, it is extremely easy to find the tools and resources to get to that 95%. 95% better copywriter, 95% better scriptwriter, 95% better titles and thumbnails, 95% better than everyone else in the world at being yourself on camera. Like, we're not asking for 100%. Like, we are, like, I'm just saying the resources are there with a little, like, you can work hard to get to that thing, but it's not, it's, it's simple, but it's not easy.

Yeah. And this is something we've talked about a lot is like, commit yourself to the craft if you wanna get better. Like, this is something that you're going to have to continually do. And I've been through iterations of this on YouTube with newsletters and the push, the pushback that I would give to you on this is like, and I talked about this with April Lynn Alter in the interview that I did with her. So make sure you check that out when she was talking about like most YouTube channels struggle with packaging. So that's title, thumbnail, making sure that everything like, like that the script and the pace of the video itself is all locked in. But she's like, hey, what I'm telling you here is like if you've already made 100 videos, or even like at least 50 videos, this is the kind of advice that you need if you really want to make this a thing. If you don't care about making it a thing, then you can just keep doing what you're doing. Or, and this is like going all the, all the way back, if you're just getting started with any of these things, it is true. And you, you posted a great video about this. Like, it is true that the gap between where you are with what you're doing right now and who you want to be, the kind of content you wanna create. That gap is the taste. That gap is hard work. And so you do need to, like, I think Ali Abdaal says you have to make, uh, 100 crappy videos in order to like get enough experience to then do like the really hard thing. And so I do want to like put that out there. If you haven't started, if you haven't sent a single email newsletter, if you haven't published a single YouTube video yet. It is best to like, I would say, do the same thing again, like do both and just publish the videos and get better at that. But make sure that each time you're trying to get a little bit better and you're paying attention to and you're looking for those resources and those people that will help you improve your title thumbnail, that will help you like write a better— write better headlines and structure your sentences in your email newsletter better, that will help you create better lead magnets or cold email better so that you can have better partners, create better— like, all those things should happen. Like, don't just— don't, don't settle. Like, it's, it's blurred out right here, but right there is an image that says 'never settle.' And going back to my effort piece, like, that is something that is going to become, like, cool and meaningful again, combined with the feeling— to get a little, to get a little personal, a little existential— here's, like, knowing that I don't have to settle because there are bigger things that I want to do, but also understanding that the kind of person that I am and the kind of person I'm becoming. I'm content with that even while I'm striving. Like, it's very dual. It's very dualistic, but it's something that I think is going to become more and more important as we go forward.

I agree. I was down when I made that video. I was downloading stuff from that literally stamped 2009 on YouTube.

That's cool.

Like of my own content, like videos of me playing with little Tech Deck skateboards and like filming using—

my son's got Tech Decks in their stockings. I was like, oh man.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I might be old, but, um, yeah, that, like, it did and it does take maybe not 15 years, 16 years of work, but, um, it does take a lot of that. And then the point is taken, like, definitely do publish through when you know it's not good enough, but also there are resources to get to not have to take 15 years like I did. And I didn't go, I didn't go take those resources when they were available. Like I, I, um, that's like, yeah, same thing for me.

Like I've been, I've, I started my first podcast in 2014. Like I've been doing this for over 10 years and looking back, there are ways that I could have sped things up, but yeah, that's, that's okay.

Yep.

All right. Uh, another one for me. You got another, it's still, it's still your turn. I, cause you've got 2. I've, I've had 3.

Yep. Another one for me. I'm going to, I'm going to jump. This is, this is more your lane, but I see it. And it's, uh, digital products and like the, the business side of being a creator. Um, obviously there's, there's sponsorships and, and, um, communities. I want to talk more about like, like general overall, like products, like courses and community might be a part of it, but general products. And you've said this on this show, on our YouTube channel about like, there's kind of a dead middle zone of $300 courses. Like it's kind of hard to justify that price. You either want to be. Well, you either want to overdeliver at a lower price or go all in on a higher price. Um, I actually think like it is a Grand Canyon-sized gap coming on digital products where it's like either a very niche-specific solution, like I will pay $49 to solve this one thing that like I could probably find YouTube videos about, but it's about my thing, right? Like if I, I need, I will pay $50 to have this exact solution to this problem, this type of video that I want to make, or this type of of thing that I want to do, or even just like the best like chefs could have like a very specific— buy a whole cookbook of Italian dishes from somebody. Like that's kind of like an example. It's either that very specific, small, under $100 price point or a multi-thousand dollar commitment to like downloading and basically being a brain. Yeah, the brain of these creators that you love, right? I think of— I think of Jay Clouse with The Lab, but I think even bigger than that, like there are people that we follow that the most you could extract the most value with access to them all the time, constantly updated, like learnings from them, all of their content in one place. And that access piece is like the most important, but basically a multi-thousand dollar product in which you basically are on the ride with this creator, right? And there's only a very few of you that are willing to pay this, but you get access to all of their secrets. Very successful creators themselves will be in other people's kind of— you use the term mastermind, but I almost think it's like, I think it's even more cartel. Cartel. It's even more like specific and narrow than that. It's like I get to work under Matt Ragland and learn everything he knows about productivity. And every time he's doing anything, I get updated on it and he tells me about it and we talk about it. And you're kind of just like paying your way into a mentorship. From this creator. I think it's either that level of detail and attention or of solving a very specific problem, but anything in the middle, anything that's kind of like, like tries to play both sides on that isn't really going to work long term.

Yeah. And I have a good example for this right now. Something that I'm in the middle of kind of like launching and relaunching is a productivity course called Analog Action, and it's all about pen and paper productivity. This is something that I've talked about on YouTube for the past 5 years, but I just had a group call. So that was a little, little extra thing you get to have, you know, have a call, have a call with me. And one of the things that multiple people said was, I've been watching your videos for years, and there's well over like probably 200+ videos right now, but it was so helpful to have everything like structured and connected and put together in a way that made sense and I could get through in just a couple of hours versus it's like, what should I watch next? I'm, I'm distracted by YouTube. I'm like, all these other things are kind of pulling at my attention. So just being like, I have this one source of truth that I can go to. And this is something that I plan on continually updating. I do think it'll be important. And I think AI will help with this more and more. Is that as creators do things like this, like basically buy my life's work, buy access to my life's work, that it doesn't get overwhelming. Like curation and organization, I guess those are the same words, will continue to be important. So that's just not like, well, now I bought this and there are 1,000 videos in here and now all of a sudden I don't know where to go again. So the curation piece will continue. And this goes like the curation piece will continue to be really important. I don't think we can fully rely on AI to do that. It'll still be like important, even if it's just meaningful for the customer, the member to know this is something that Matt put time and thought and intention into the organization, the curation of this.

The who is so important on that too. Like I'd be willing to sort through— I know she doesn't even have this many on her channel, but like I'd be willing to sort through 1,000 April Lynn videos to like find the thing that's going to make me a better YouTube strategist and like YouTube creator, right? I would sort through everything that Gannon Meyer's ever done to be the best Instagram creator that I can be, right? Like if that's my goal for a year, right? Like, can I give, it's basically just like you're, you're paying to be almost like an intern or like, or like to have a direct, you're paying for a mentorship, if you will, to like have access to everything that the creator is doing. So that's, that's my take on it. And I think we didn't talk about like the dangers of that middle zone, but I honestly just think like, it's really hard to justify like anything more than a specific solution or a specific person. Like when you meet in the middle on that, it's really tough. It's like you're splitting hairs on what you're actually getting, right? Like if you're getting some of Nick Huber's real estate advice and some of his Twitter advice and some of it, like, it's kind of hard to piece it all together. And like, that's more work that you're not, you're not, you're not paying to do more work, organizational work in that sense.

Yeah, I think the, I think the kind of the mid-tier product will be either like if the value of something, the perceived or actual value of something is much, much higher, like in the several thousand dollars, like take real estate advice as something more as a specific thing is like if you can really tie this understanding, this will make or save you, say, thousands of dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars and looking at it and saying, Well, Nick's entry-level product isn't $99, it's $499 or it's $999. Then that, like, there could be just like a scale, but it's still like, what's the mid-tier? I think for, if I think of it in my own perspective, then I could see something being that the two things that differentiate the highest ticket are either like volume of content, which we just talked about. And like, we also talked about the other part is like access. Access to me. And so like that could become more expensive. So you could get just the material and say like AI-assisted search for kind of that mid-tier where it is like you can piecemeal, you can, you know, buy one by one the like $49 to $99 product. Or I think the mid-tier becomes like a bundle really more so than anything else. So it's like you could buy all of this, you could buy all 20 of these mini courses or templates for $49 each, or you could get the whole thing for $500. Or you could get the whole thing and monthly calls and like community access to Matt for $1,000 a year, $2,000 a year.

Yeah, that all makes sense to me. What's your next one?

My next one, I think this one will be pretty short because it's kind of like it connects to a lot of other things that we've done or talked about. I think authenticity is my next one. I think of it specifically in the context of not just the personal connection that we've talked about with communities and live events, but I was thinking about this specifically to like call out April Lynn again, is like showing the mistakes and the errors and the bloopers that you have in video and in audio. It's a little harder to like do that in text because if you, if you misspell something in text, people are going to call you out. Now granted, like sometimes in social media, that's a feature like you, we've all seen and it's on purpose. I promise you like, Here are the 9 tips that will like do this thing for you, and then they only list 7. People are like, what are— you know, you're demonstrating— it's kind of like a badge of honor in a sense, like in a silly way, that's in a humorous way also, that shows like this isn't AI generated. Like AI wouldn't do this, and you can't even like— I don't think you're at a point where you could even prompt AI video to do the sorts of like bloopers that like if I'm doing a thing, it's like, hey, record a video of me in the car talking about my day. And then the camera falls over into the seat because it wasn't anchored properly. Like that's something that I've posted before and people comment on it and they think it's funny, humorous. That's, I think that's going to become more and more common is that little bloopers or errors are very like human-specific things are becoming— are you're going to see more and more in content.

Yeah, it's literally— you said it's a status symbol. It's like, I don't use AI, I am fully myself online. And I actually like— I don't know if it's a prediction or more of a take, but I feel like there's going to be a little bit of a rebellion against all this AI development. Like there's a real source of pride for people to be like, I did all this work, I made all this content, I am art.

Artisanal.

Yeah.

You know, hand-curated.

I made this video with my bare hands.

Like, bare hands, bare internet hands.

You never were going to, but like, uh, you more, more bare hands than, than what people, other people are doing. Um, that's a great, that's a great take. Like, there's a, there's a software, I forgot what it's called. Um, you can like develop podcasts, like from like, hey, I want a podcast. About, like, I think Cosmere talked about this, like, I want a podcast about NFL scores and what's happening at Pepsi this month and the latest stock earnings. And like, it'll just like make up and you tell how long you want it to be. Like, I have a 10-minute drive, like make a 10-minute podcast.

And when they did that, they— I have seen some of that.

They had like ums and breaks and like stutters in that, which is like incredible. It's also kind of scary, but like there's that, there's people who like put typos in their AI-generated. Content, um, just to like make it look more real.

Yeah, I do think like that, that is also going to become more and more of a thing. But I think, I, I think that we're in a moment right now while AI isn't quite to that point. But then I think like just us as, as humans, we'll find other ways to make it to like put that like verified, you know, human created.

My last one is that there's a group of creators and they're, they're, I'm seeing them and it made me realize that I think in 2025, people will understand that teaming up with other creators who do similar things to you is an absolute cheat code for the growth of your content, the growth of your following, the growth of your business. And I'm looking at these guys, Oren John, Jordan Rogers, Ashwin is one of them, Alex Garcia, Colin Landforce. I know they have different like businesses and content together. Together and like, I am just, I see them and I'm like, okay, I want to be friends with these guys. They're very talented. They're very skilled at their thing and they just seem cool.

Right?

Like it's almost like, it's almost like watching a show, like you like the characters. Right? So I think smart creators will team up in 2025 with other people who do similar things to them. Like I can see you teaming up with 3 other productivity people or me and like, I just was on a call before this with another video editor, like teaming up with other people who do and have the similar interests and like skills and things that you want to build a business around, um, to actually run those businesses or just like be each other's like characters in, in their content. Um, because like, it just like, it's just an easy hack. Like, oh, I like Oren, so I like Jordan too. Oh, I like one of them, so I like the other person too. I, I know I want that for myself. You know, I want to have people that I'm really aligned with. We talked about the people and the connection part of it, but like, It also just like, it's such a cheat code when 5 different people can point to you at the same time, just like by the nature of the stuff that you're doing, having a creator cartel as you've alluded to, um, is just like a, it's a, it's an ultimate hack. And I would really look for more other people to do that in 2025.

Yeah. I mean, it just makes things more fun. It also takes some of the pressure off of doing everything by yourself all the time. So yeah, I don't really have anything to add to that because I think it, it supplements a lot of the things that we've already talked about. But yeah, let's bring on, bring on the cartels.

Yeah. What's your last one?

The last one for me, and this is something that I think like you definitely have an opinion on, have been a big help, uh, to me on is I'm just, I'm the most bullish that I've ever been on video. I think video is king and it's going to just continue to grow in its dominance, uh, going into 2025. So. That's why I'm kind of pushing all of my chips forward onto the, like, the YouTube table. And in 2025, I've set some big goals around my own personal channel and the Hey Creator channel that I want my personal channel to grow from 100,000 to 200,000. I want for the Hey Creator channel to get to at least 10,000 subscribers, if not closer to 20 or 25,000. And everything that you— that we've talked about today, including like just publishing isn't good enough anymore. If I, you, me, we can crack the code on that and we've hired some help and I am like, I have a YouTube strategist that I work with now, shout out to Jamie, that if we can do that, then everything else becomes easier. Everything else also becomes more fun. Now, granted, both you and I, we like video. We've been on video for a while. Like I remember taking video production and film classes in high school. So this is something that like I've built up an excitement about and a level of comfort with that maybe not everybody has. But like if you're not doing at least some video in 2025, I think that unless you're just absolute 100% world class at the other thing, then, then I think, I think you won't quite see the results or the impact that you want. From your work.

And it's just where the platforms are going too. Yeah, like they're going there because people are going there. But like on the flip side of that, if you're not sold and understand that you have to play the game a little bit, like you can make it doing anything in this world as a creator.

Yep.

But like to play—

very true—

to play the video game is to give yourself a bit of a head start. That train's moving a bit faster, um, and getting good at video is a skill that I feel very lucky and grateful to have picked up early in my life. But it's not, it's never too late to do this, right? And like understanding that this is a thing to go all in on. If you are trying to pick a medium, I think maybe you're saying this with this take, but I know I'm saying it like video would be the thing. Like if you're going to start creating, I would try to make good videos because it just makes everything else better and easier. Um, and you get rewarded more for it.

No. Yeah, I want to— it also made me think about, uh, so David Perel, who has this great, great, uh, show called How I Write. And so he's very, he's very much like one of the better writers and teachers of writing that I know, especially on the internet. Um, I do think it's interesting that he has put so much— if you go check out his, his show on YouTube, How I Write, the amount of effort that he puts in to the staging, the design, the look. And these are multiple sets. It's not even just like he has one set. Like, I'm pretty sure he purchased or rents a condo in Austin just for this, just for this purpose. He said something earlier today, I spent 5 years teaching writing, and ChatGPT has gotten to the point where after just a few prompts, the output is better than 75% my writing students would have ever been able to achieve on their own with a day's worth of work. And that to me is like a staggering admission or just like realization, I should say, from someone who I consider to be a really good writer, someone who's put a ton of effort into his writing. And he said, hey, a few prompts, you can get to 75%, which leads to something that I've thought about, my only like, like aside on this to say like your point of like average isn't good enough or just publishing isn't good enough anymore. I do think that there's going to be like a little, a little smuggle prediction. I do think that there's going to be more acceptance of intentionally produced AI work for people who have platforms that aren't text first. So like say you're a big YouTuber, a big podcaster, and you've had the presence of mind enough to have an email form on your website or some kind of capture. Or maybe you're just getting them through products. People will become more accepting if you basically have like a well-prompted, well-crafted contextual AI version of the newsletter, of the podcast, of the YouTube video that you're creating so that people can consume that in different ways or pull out some other lessons. I think that's going to become more accepted, but I do think like in general, like if you could do one thing and do it really well, I would do video, like, more than anything else combined.