Break Free Of The Insurance Money Trap

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Hey everybody, it's Matt and you are listening to the Practice Profit System podcast. And, uh, we've got a lot of fun for you today. What we're going to be talking about is how to break free of the insurance money trap. I have with me today, uh, Dr. Melanie Keller. She is going to share with us how she started right away being in the cash services, and she's going to lend her insights to it. And we got a lot of really cool stuff. In fact, she's even going to talk to us about how she was a big dancer in Alaska, right, Melanie? Do I have that right? But we have to clarify, right? That's the whole thing, because in today's day and age, people may think that's the wrong kind of dancing. But so, Melanie, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Well, so maybe we can get into clarifying that. So I grew up in Southeast Alaska. I moved there at 6 years old, and it was very rural. We're talking, uh, you can travel there by small airplane or by car or boat, right? There's ways to getting there. And this was in the '80s. So it was very cooperative in terms of like, we'll call it granola. If you've ever heard that term, that's how I was raised.

Was this like a commune? Were you living in a commune?

No, no, no. It was, I mean, you have a whole mix of people, right? But it was just the small town, no stoplights, 22 people in my graduating high school class, that small. And so I was exposed to, we were a commercial fishing family for salmon and I was exposed to business and different ways of being an entrepreneur. And I was crew and part of the culture and heritage in that area is Tlingit or the Chilkat Native Americans. And so I got to an opportunity. I actually lived near the theater and had family friends who were part of the nonprofit to allow this dancing. So we were on cruise ships. We did up to 5 dances a day. We were actually even invited to the opening ceremonies of the Olympics in Barcelona.

Wow.

So that's the kind of dancing we're talking about, cultural, Telling stories, historical stories.

And today, so you are known as the Intuitive Edge Doctor. In a minute, what I want to do is I want to dive into how you really got into the cash side. But let's talk first and foremost, when you say you're the Intuitive Edge Doctor, what does that mean?

Well, I believe all doctors are intuitive in the sense that we're told to find the diagnosis and then also have alternative differential diagnoses. And so we have to listen to our gut and listen to our training and physiology and maybe unique biochemistry, which is what I am referring to in terms of epigenetics. These aren't things that are dead set in stone like our genetic conditions that can't be reversible. These are things that relate to our behaviors and can change the biochemistry. A good example is not having enough vitamin D. If we don't have enough vitamin D, there are certain functions that won't happen or not enough. Those are things that maybe perhaps I intuitively am able to pick up on or look into. For example, my mentor was called a quack for ordering vitamin D not more than 15 years ago. And now it's pretty standard of care.

Your mentor's name wasn't Dr. Quack. I want to make sure I've got that clear. But it was labeled a quack, right?

Correct. Correct. It was very strange to be like, wait, you're not going to ask me to run a vitamin D level. That's not necessary. And now it's pretty necessary, as we found out.

Yeah. Especially in the days of COVID right? I mean, quite a few of my doctors were big advocates of being on there. And so let's talk. I want to really— I want to dive into this because You know, Melvin, one of the biggest questions I get on a regular basis is people have the desire to break free of the insurance money trap, right? They're tired of the game. I literally had a guy call me one time and said, they just cut my reimbursement rate, get this, by 86 cents. He goes, it was the most insulting thing in the world. He's any— and I won't use the exact language he used, but he said, get me the bleepity bleep bleep out. What do I have to do? But you started in the cash side right away. Do I understand that correctly?

Absolutely. First day, front and center. And that really stemmed from knowing that I was in an alternative area, although I think we all need each other and it's essential. I just knew that going even into medical school, I knew that it was going to be a different opportunity that that I'd be looking at and that I wanted, because I also saw, I actually had a background in massage billing, insurance billing for massage therapy, which paid out really well. And then see that some of, like you were saying, a $38 visit, or sometimes naturopathic doctors aren't even considered equivalent to a massage therapist. It was very disconcerting. So that's where I looked at it and said, look, I'm going to attract people who see the value in what I'm providing and then really show up with the results for them, right?

What was that like for you? Like, so here you are, you're in school. I'm assuming a lot of your peers are going into the insurance game, right? You're saying, no, I want to go out and do this cash thing. What was that like for you? Was there a lot of support for you? A lot of support professionally, emotionally? Was this something you had to blaze on your own?

Yeah, that's a very interesting question because In all things in perspective, you know, if we take judgment in, it can often be that propellant. But oh, absolutely, I felt very the odd person. Even in— we were in a medical ethics class and I raised my hand because it was all about talking about supplements and how much money you can make from supplements. And I knew the anti-kickback law from 1976 from my massage training. You know, I was like, I know you can't change or get a percentage, you need to give us flat rate rent, etc. And so I was like, Why is it that we can profit from this? And, you know, and it was just that, and the whole room was like, but that's how I'm going to make my money, you know? And I was like, well, that's not what I'm here for, or that shouldn't be the only sole purpose. It's not that we're chasing. And I do, I find colleagues that are like, well, how are you going to replace that income if you don't recommend a probiotic? And I'm like, that's not the type of practice that I want to have. That's just me personally. Some people, that's where they thrive. So really, it was standing in my own truth and knowing that I was going to do something different and being okay with that.

I think that upbringing that you had, since that was probably a little bit different than the norm, I mean, it's clearly very different from the way I grew up. Do you think that kind of gave you the confidence to be different and to be able to do this?

Yes, because I saw my mother. She's a dental assistant, so she was in the system, and all of our family friends were in Were teachers, so they kept highlighting, oh, become a teacher, have your summers off. Yet my stepfather, we had a commercial fishing business where we only fished for 3 months in the year, and then he was off the rest of the year. And we lived well, you know, does that make sense? I was crew and I made very good money. I made 10% at 16 years old. And also with the dancing, I was making money from that, so I had plenty of money even as a child paying for my own things.

Okay. All right, so let's dig into this a little bit more. All right, so you get done with school and you open up your place. What was that like? What were some of the things that kept you up at night? Let's start there.

Well, being a naturopathic doctor in Portland, Oregon, saying natural medicine, anyone? I mean, it was pretty saturated. It's like ground zero for naturopaths, right? Exactly.

There's one on every corner. It's like Starbucks, right? They're everywhere. Yeah.

Oh yeah. And plenty of people would rent me a space or this and that. And, you know, you're just like, um, but very holding steadfast. In fact, a lot of people like to observe how you weren't taking insurance. And then I like to observe how those practices had to block at least 2 days to chase the money if they weren't going to hire a billing, right? And then 2 days maybe, or half days to then explain and resubmit and all these things. I was like, oh, well, look, I don't have to deal with any of that. So I really found that I niched into an area, and that was at the time when that was what everybody was saying to do. And I can say that that was a good idea, but it was also— you can get burnt out if you niche in too narrow of an area. But that really was what—

That area was more like the natural medicine, or was it— tell me, what area were you zeroed in on?

This was particularly the under— we now know the underlying cause of irritable bowel syndrome. So it's called small intestine bacterial overgrowth. I even went that specific, like, to a condition. And, um, and at my practice, even though people didn't exactly know about it, there was an underground buzz. And then at the same time, I became the one person in the, you know, one of not many people in the world who was doing this. And I had people all over the world and traveling from all over the world and have seen the celebrities and the royalty and You know, and, and that feels good at first and you're just like, oh great. And that was even as a cash practice and I wasn't, you know, raising my prices per se, but I was ensuring and, you know, setting my boundaries. And it's still, you're still somebody else's, you know, like there's ways where if I set it up now where I have a high-ticket program and it's all upfront, if not, I have a large deposit and then monthly payments. Now I'm happier and I want to say there's a better value exchange and they value me, right? In terms of like, wow, I have this expert that I pay that's very zeroed in on what I do. And so that's the transition that I've made to this point.

So let's— I want to dive into that because I think you kind of went by that really quickly, but I want to dive into that. So you started out, if I can surmise this and I have this correct, and interrupt if I don't, you started on the traditional NP approach. You're at ground zero for naturopaths. I'm sorry, not NPs, for naturopaths. You are trying to do kind of the same thing, but you go in cash and you target on a very specific thing and you became kind of well known for that, right? Do I have that right so far?

Yes.

Okay. But then what happened for you? Why did you—

I'm assuming at that point, were you kind of not charging your worth or your value at that point when you first Well, actually it was, and I actually got a lot of scrutiny from colleagues, um, because I started my practice as a fresh grad charging exactly what my mentor charged.

And what was that, just for con— like, give us an idea?

$225 an hour.

Okay, and how long ago was this?

Uh, that was 2012.

Okay, so $225 an hour. Okay.

All right.

And the way that I landed on that was based on my attorney to set up my LLC who was a new grad, brand new grad. And I was like, I'm trying— he's charging me $225 an hour, I'm going to charge $225 an hour. And guess what? The 2 people who are also in this specialty, that's what they charge. So why am I going to be the lower runt worker? Or, you know, because I'm just as good and I knew just as much as them. So I went and they were kind of like, whoa, who are you? And I was like, I'm here. And then I continued to increase my prices. I got to $1,500 a new visit.

Really? So $1,500 for a visit. How long is a visit?

That would— that was 90 minutes.

Okay. So really you're making— you're still making $1,000 an hour?

At least. Yeah.

At least. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, uh, I can tell you the attorneys that are $1,000 an hour are very good. So good for you. So what would— was there a mental block for you to be charging that amount? Like, how did you— I know what you said. Hey, I just thought I'd charge what my attorney was charging per hour. But as you started to raise it and you started to get resistance from people around you, how did you handle that?

I didn't necessarily get resistance. I got better quality, quite frankly, because starting out it was the new condition where people were like, oh, wow, let's give an example of Just even HRT, right? Some people are just like, wow, you can do hormone replacement. It's absolutely new to them. So this was a new, okay, this, you know, you have a new answer. I myself had been through the irritable bowel syndrome workup. I had gone to all of the experts in the insurance system and didn't get anywhere. I had to go invest half a million dollars in my education to then land and become this expert. And that's part of it. Right? I was a non-traditional student. I did not go to medical school. Just, you know, it was an investment. It was not, you know, just, oh, I, I want knowledge and, and a degree. Um, so I had no problem. It was more the other people's uncomfort— you know, maybe being uncomfortable as I raised my rates. But the more I raised my rates, the better quality of people I had to work with.

Really interesting. So, because I tell this to my clients all the time, right? Like, I'm all— you, you know, you've listened to my stuff. I'm all about charge premium prices. And some people will say, well, you know, we want to make sure that we're being fair to the patient, right? What would you say to somebody like that if they're like, well, you know, we gotta, we gotta be fair to the patient, we don't wanna, we don't wanna come across as greedy? What would you say?

In my opinion, that's looking internal at their— and it's not to say that I haven't been there to do some internal work, but the other thing is to give them an analogy of something else where they would need an expert, whether it's in tax or if you had a leak in your home. If there's pouring water coming through and ruining your investment, you're going to pay anything you need to to fix that hole. Or you could use a boating analogy easily.

Yep.

That's your bread and butter. Why are you going to let the boat sink? So that's oftentimes the case is with people and their health. And oftentimes the people who can afford it are the ones who ignore it. And so they need to be brought front and center and say, look, this high blood pressure or this reflux is a problem. Just because you're a high-paying individual or you are a power who— it doesn't matter because this could kill you.

Yeah.

Right. And when they get that reality and they actually respect you for even putting it in their path that way, Because they pay their experts high dollar, just like you said, you know, somebody who's an excellent attorney, that I expect that because that's what I'm paying for. So when you— and now all of a sudden you level up in respect and you are now their equal instead of their, oh, I don't want to feel sorry for whatever. And, you know, it's your choice to live in that energy, but I choose not to.

I think that's a really important thing that I think people need to understand is that, you know, There's a big difference. We'll go back to the attorney analogy. There's a big difference between the attorney that charges $225 an hour and $500 an hour, and it's not the $275 an hour. What you're really paying for is you're paying for a headache-free result. I was just doing a coaching call with one of my clients in Southern California, one of my partner clients, and I told the story of— we just— Katie and I just put a very nice addition into our backyard, outdoor kitchen, all that. I won't tell you what we paid. We spent a lot of money. And we hired the most expensive firm. You want to know why? Because I didn't want any headaches, right?

Yeah, there you go.

They're like, we have one team assigned to your property. They don't leave until it's done. Any plant dies over the next 4 years, you call us. If in 15 years you have a problem, we come out and replace, fix it for free. I'm like, perfect. And he goes, and we're the most expensive by a lot. And I go, great, that's what I want. I don't want any headaches. And really, that's what people want when they have reached this point. I'm assuming that somebody that was coming to see you You said they had failed a number of times finding a solution for this IBS condition, correct? How many different things do you think on average your patient had tried in order to fix this problem?

Oh, on average. Again, that's why I meant when it got really niche, people have been all over the world. I mean, I was talking to people in Egypt, in Africa. I mean, they'd been— when we talk about they've been everywhere and the specialists, I'm even talking here locally as to why I live in Los Angeles. my colleagues at Cedars-Sinai. I mean, people find me, they're still going to them. They know me. And so they're like, you're in good hands. I can give a real quick example of a teacher, actually. This was post-pandemic transitioning back into the classroom. And this person couldn't even take half of a tablet. They're supposed to take 3 tablets a day. So to treat this condition that we mentioned, small intestine bacterial overgrowth. And so they go down this rabbit hole of even going to naturopaths and other functional medicine. They're like, oh, it's this, it's that. And it just kind of started swirling into its worst situation, which again, I also see. And within 4 days, this person went from couldn't even take half of a tablet that's supposed to help their situation to taking 3 tablets a day and having 80% improvement. I have the text that even they were like stunned, shocked, couldn't believe it. And almost like I'm— The used car sale. It's weird. They're kind of like, what's wrong with you? Because all of a sudden, I'm like, there's nothing wrong with me. I just was able to again, and sometimes intuit the situation differently. And they were so thrilled just by within 4 days of such a transition that within their— within my 6-month program, they're now saying— they wrote again a testimonial for me to say, I didn't even think I was going to be able to go back to work, and they weren't going to allow people to work from home. So they were going to lose their job, that entire income of whatever that was bringing into that household. And within 4 days, they were able to see results. So do you think they wanted to stay with me for 6 months? And I say, take the training wheels off, and now they can fish and feed their family. You know, they understand their situation. They know they can come to me when they need me. But that was such a beautiful example for me to see of like, wow, there is value here. It's not about me. It's about me helping people find the way.

So you charge $1,500 for the first consult. What's the 6-month program look like for you?

Oh, so I went from à la carte. So we had the pandemic, then people decided, oh, right, it's like, let me email her all the time. All of a sudden people think they could email and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. So I transitioned to a package and it starts at $15K.

$15K. What's the top level of the package? Top end?

60.

60. Okay.

So you really only need to sell a couple of those a month to make— to have a decent month, right? You only need to sell 4 or 5 $15K packages. What would you say is the average that you— like, if you were to throughout a month or throughout a quarter, what would you say is the average amount that somebody will spend with you on one of those packages? $20,000? $30,000?

Yeah, that's where I would say it would land. Mm-hmm.

Okay, not a bad way to make a living. I would imagine you don't need to close a lot of patients to have a good month.

No, and, and I have— I enjoy it. I actually enjoy, like, thinking about them. I enjoy looking at their labs. I actually even enjoy reaching out to them and texting them and saying, how you doing?

Kind of fun to be in medicine. Kind of fun to be a doctor, huh?

Exactly. Yeah.

I think that's such a great lesson for people because, you know, you just— and for the record, by the way, Melanie's not a client of mine. Like, we just met because we're in the same mastermind group, right? We're in a group with Mullen Frazier. I mean, we've— this is the first time we've seen each other's faces. So she's not a client of mine, right? Like, this is what's really cool to me. But, you know, it's funny because you're doing all the things that I recommend. You're charging premium prices. You have packages that go up to $60,000. No à la carte. I think à la carte is like the worst thing that you can do. How did you get to a place that à la carte just made no sense? What was the switch that happened in your head aside from this pandemic thing?

It was already there. And I knew it from being at a university. We had the Epic charting system, if people are aware of. And it was— there was even a time where it was encouraged. Give them my chart. Give them my chart. And I was like, no, please, for the love of no, ever. And so people just, they're like, well, I can, my chart, my doctor here, there, wherever. And when you're dealing with somebody with irritable bowel and can I eat this? And what does this bloating mean? And I basically, I had an assistant at one point and then I looked at it and I was, we were just handling fires. Okay. And then the pandemic hit and everybody, I'm talking people came out of the woodwork from years ago. And you're just kind of like, are you kidding me? One analogy I had to give to one patient at one point who owned a pizza shop, I I said, what would you say to a customer who just comes walking in and is like, hey, you know what, yesterday I had this pizza that I really liked, I'll have another one. You know, like, it's just like, I really liked that you were great and you listened to me and all these things, but then they don't want to reschedule an appointment and pay for it. I was like, you would escort that person out. This is not how it works. And, you know, and she was kind of stunned by it. But I'm like, you can't just keep calling me and emailing me and asking me clear questions that are a new appointment, right? New onset, new this, new that. So, and then the, yeah, the pandemic just put me over the edge of just like, this is not acceptable, people. And so I was like, here's the situation. We are now transitioning to a package. That package includes, and I have a set amount of time and it's time tracked. There are plenty of apps that time track is whether I'm going into their portal messaging, looking at their journals, Talking to other experts, talking to their concierge doctor, whoever they have on their team, that is all time tracked just like an attorney.

And attorneys always round up, by the way.

Exactly.

So never go past the 15-minute or the 30-minute or the 45-minute mark because they round up, right? I mean, as soon as they start asking you how things are in your life, hang up. That's my advice to you because I don't care anything about their personal life. They're like, so how are you? I'm like, shut up, just let's get to the case. I want to get off the phone in 12 minutes. What's a typical week like for you? How many patients do you have in your program at any one time? How many hours are you working? I want to dive into that.

Yeah, like less than 10 right now. And that's the beauty of it, is that because I'm also able to be selective, right? There are people who want to be in my program, but they're just— I have a form that they fill out. you know, there's some screening involved. And again, I'm an intuitive, so I've had people that— and you can just tell the way they'll, they'll try and work it or create a payment program that you haven't offered, you know. And I'm just like, nope, nope. If they're gonna do this, what are they gonna be like when we get to something else, right? So, so that's my choice, right? I'm not in it. I've been there. I've had all the yay, you know. And right now it's about my peace and joy and So really, I don't know. I would say maybe on average a couple of hours a week am I actually like talking to people, to patients. And it really is more of an enjoyable— for example, there's one of my patients right now and a supplement company is trying to woo me and whatever. And they invited me to this very, very fancy celebrities-are-seen steakhouse in West Hollywood. And I'm like, oh gee, I should go to this fancy, you know, this nice dinner for this one to learn about this. particular supplement? Like, that's more of what I get to do. And then I get to tell him the next day, how about this? You know, and he thinks it's the greatest thing ever. Like, I specifically went to that dinner for him, right? And I did in a sense, but is it benefiting me and networking and for other patients too? Absolutely. And yeah, so I'm doing a lot of networking as well, also offering other practices perhaps an area that they're not doing. So for example, IBS. I can go into a practice or go into a, you know, there's many people who have virtual programs now where I can say, look, would you like me to present this to your audience? We can package a digital program, we can package, we could just have me live on your group coaching. I can come in your practice and do, that's my background is in education. I can break this down for you so you can add it to your program. There's other things that bring me more joy than ever chasing insurance or chasing billing, you know, or employees or any of that, or even chasing supplement returns. So you have—

you see, you carry approximately 10-ish patients at a time, which is about one quarter of the number of patients an insurance doctor would see in a day, right?

Yeah.

Okay, so you're doing that. You're really only working 5 to 10 hours on actual patient files, not counting all the learning that you're doing a week, which is the equivalent of like one day that somebody would spend. And you're charging on average $20,000 to $30,000. So I'll let everybody else do the math. That's a decent little living even in Southern California, right? That's even with the crazy cost of living. So the thing that I think is really cool, Melanie, is you get to think about your patients, right? Versus going, oh yeah, what's her name and what do I have? That 10-second review. How are you getting patients? How do people find out about your— Is it all just word of mouth or do you run advertising?

What do you do? Yeah, I definitely— it's word of mouth. I have my patients love to spread the word. Of course, you know, that has to work for that person. And then I'm also in a media mastermind. So I've gotten quite a bit of really top-level media, which is very, very nice. I've frequently been on like ABC's The List. That's 50 million viewers. Um, and yeah, and so, and it's also just repurposing that. So it's not just the one time that it airs, right? You're able to use that content on social media, in emails, remind them. I can break it down into different sections. You know, I did one little piece about pause the probiotics, like literally that's on a national television segment, right? And just that little clip of a few seconds, they say pause the probiotics, will get people to say, wait a minute, what? Mm-hmm.

And you're using Angela Bonici, who I had on the podcast about a month and a half ago, right? Is that who you're using?

Yeah, great. Yes, she's part of Super Connector Media. Yeah.

Super Connector Media. I couldn't remember their name. So yeah, there you go. Yeah. So you're doing all that stuff. Do you have a book out? Is that what you— do you have a book as well?

No, I don't have a book at the moment. Again, it was more of like, well, like I said, I got a little burnt out on focusing on such a niche. They talk about being in the box, but then there's being in the corner of the box staring into Into the corner. So I really got into more of this epigenetic training, and that is so expansive and so broad, as some people will kind of debate with me about. But that's what I enjoy, and actually even more energy work and spirituality and, you know, our thinking and mindset and such. And so that brings me a lot of joy to add in that people don't really know where to get it. And if they can get one-stop shopping, right, if they can get a meditating coach or this or that, all in one person, right, within my frame of licensing and scope of practice. But again, that's also one of the reasons they understand my pricing. They're like, oh wow, because I can also do physical medicine, I can do manipulation, they can come physically here if they want to. But it's also nice now that we're in this virtual world that that's gotten settled into. I'd been doing that for years.

That's one of the great things about the pandemic, right? You know, there's always there's always the unintended consequences of everything. And I have this basic philosophy that nothing is ever as good as it seems and nothing is ever as bad as it seems. It just is. I don't know. Somebody told me one time that's some kind of Buddhist thing. I don't know. But that's how I look at it. And when this whole thing happened and everybody— remember everybody was like, oh my God, the world is going to end. The economy's going to go to hell in a handbasket. I was on a call. The guy's like, shut your businesses down, blah, blah, blah. And I go, I think we're about ready to end Enter into one of the great opportunities of a lifetime for doctors, and they're like, "What do you mean?" I said, "I don't know, but I got a feeling something's going to dramatically shift and change." And you know what was interesting, Melanie, is I would say 90% of my clients had booming years because they all transitioned to this. They all did telemedicine, and it flattened the playing field right now. The doctor in Chicago could have a consult with a client in Iowa, and then. they would come in for the $15,000 regenerative procedure. Right. So I love what you're doing because this whole world of Zoom, of this flattening the marketplace, really has opened you up. I mean, you could do a consult with somebody in India or Africa, right?

Well, I did. And that was back in the day. It was, you do, Scott. Like, oh my goodness. And I was very aware of all of that. But it was also people who needed the care. And so that's why we clicked, I think, because I heard what you were saying and I was like, yes, doctors need your help. Like, yes, we're not trained in business as well. You know, we, I think what you're doing is amazing too, because then people can see and get unstuck, right. Or, and break free, like we mentioned, to just know that there are other things possible and that you can have help. Have the assistance instead of this, oh, I want to do it, but I don't exactly know how. You got to take the action and make the investment, but it's worth it.

That's the— I've always been one, for as long as I can remember, I've always invested in coaching. I don't know why I've been all that way, but I always have. And I still to this day, I mean, the group we're in, it's pretty expensive, at least the level I'm at. I know you're at a different level. But it's worth every penny, right? Because I get access to some really, really smart people and they're a phone call away and they can solve a problem like, oh, I didn't think about it like that. Thanks. You just saved— you just made me $100 grand. So that's always wonderful. So how do people get in touch with you, Melanie?

How—

is there a site? Or if people want to learn more or talk to you kind of about your services, how do they get in touch with you?

Yeah, just Intuitive Edge doctor.com is my website.

Okay.

And I also help businesses. And LinkedIn, of course, is Dr. Melanie Keller. And Instagram, my handle is dr.melanie_nd.

Yeah, great. Yeah, don't be afraid to look, you know, I'm a— hey, if I can help your business grow, I'm happy.

Right?

Like, this is, you know, if— and if you can help— here's the deal. If you can help doctors add, like, what you do into their practice and they make money and they create more freedom, and more importantly, Melanie, we help patients get out of the insurance minefield.

Yeah.

We're making the world a better place because I, I actually believe the future of our country is dependent upon doctors. A huge part of our— the success of our country is dependent upon doctors because what's happened is Healthcare is out of the hands of the doctors, and that's not good for America. That's not good for our country. That's not good for the world. And there's a lot of great things that come out of the insurance and hospital base. I mean, there's all kinds of great treatments, right? I'm not saying it's all bad.

Mm-hmm.

But there's a lot more like somebody— what you're doing. I mean, just think of all the great freedom that you've given some of your patients and the lives you've given back and made them better mothers and fathers and kids. And I mean, it's got to feel good, I bet.

Yes.

Yeah, cool.

All right, so that's Intuitive Edge Doctor, and you spell out doctor, intuitiveedgedoctor.com. Do I have that right?

That's correct, yes.

Check out Dr. Melanie Keller, and, uh, hopefully I get a chance to see you when I'm in Southern California at the end of March. Okay, okay, I'll reach out and hopefully we can connect.

Okay, sounds good.

All right, check her out, everybody, and don't forget, this is Matt. Hey, by the way, before I forget, we are going to be hosting a free virtual training for— on April 2nd and 3rd on how to— on the practice growth event. We're We're going to do it virtual this time. Check it out at practicegrowthevent.com. That's practicegrowthevent.com. It's free. It's 2 days with me on Zoom and 60 other doctors. I'm going to teach you how to scale your business so you can make the money that Melanie— maybe even close to what Melanie is making. How about that? So, all right, cool, everybody. Uh, thank you so much, Melanie. I appreciate you coming on.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening. If you liked this episode, take a moment and share it with your fellow medical professionals, or post a positive comment and rate it on wherever you just listened. Now don't forget, you can get a copy of my book, The Anatomy of a 7-Figure Medical Practice, for free. Just pay $7.95 in shipping and handling, plus you'll get over $1,197 in free bonus material. Simply go to srpmedicalmarketing.com/book. That's srpmedicalmarketing.com/book. Thank you so much, and we'll see you next time.