The Doctor Who Realized Success Was the Trap

How do you, 'cause I know you've had failures. How do you deal with it? How do you deal with, and I won't, let's not even use the word failure when things don't go according to plan.

Yeah. So the textbook answer, the answer to the quiz, what the fucking textbook answer is. But what I tell myself is you're either winning or you're, or you're learning. And so what, what I, what I, I'm intentional about it because instinct is to goddamn it and, and get upset and stress and, and let it crush you. I look at it as what can I take from this? How can I learn from this? Example, um, I'm now licensing my Peak Launch program. I had a doctor who joined very early before he was ready. Didn't know what he was doing. Wanted, he wanted to go fast, go fast. I'm like, you're not, you're not ready yet. There's some things that you need to learn ahead of time first. You need to prepare. No, no, I gotta go. He failed.

You didn't build your clinic to feel like an employee in your own business. I'm Matthew Glogli, and on Out of the System hosted by Dr. Talks, We challenge the broken rules holding healthcare entrepreneurs back. Hear from clinic owners, rebels, and builders who are creating bold, profitable, patient-centered practices and doing it their way.

So the messaging, people said, I can't, who do I reach out to? Who do I just go straight to your, your app and freaking just talk to us. You need refills, go to the app, just click a button.

Refill. Beautiful.

So it's awesome. We're adding an AI, it's gonna be a custom agent, so it's gonna be embedded with all my 20 years of research stuff in there and then their data on top of that. So now when, when new data gets added into their chart, it automatically assimilates that as that agent gives them AI-driven guidance, support, advice, questions.

Beautiful.

So that's been pretty sweet. So that's—

How long you been working on that?

Dude, you know me.

It's just been like 3 years.

It's been a while.

You and I started talking about— I remember having conversations about this like 3 years ago.

Yeah, but I, I finally found someone to build it for me. So rather than using Volcanic or using someone else—

So needed in the industry.

Yeah. So the app's a big part of it. The program, I think last time When I was with you, I, we had narrowed it down to 6 months to make it palatable entry point.

Yep.

So it's $15K for 6 months, but we've designed it so that they will renew by— I repeat all the testing in the beginning, I repeat it at 6-month mark so that now look at all the great results you've gotten to prove that we've gotten results. But number 2, look at the things we can focus on now. Yeah. To, to get 'em to keep going. So, yeah. So that's kind of, we've gotten like, kind of like a scalable, repeatable modular, a consistent program now, which I, I never have before. Remember before I was tinkering and messing around?

Dude, you're the king of the tinker. Like I tell, I use you, I use you as an example.

Good. Well, good. You should. Yeah.

For those of you who wanna see— I'm a bad example. No, you're a great example. I'm with Dr. Tracy Gappin of the Gappin Institute in Sarasota, Florida. One of the smartest. Are you sure you're a doctor? 'Cause like, how the hell are, 'cause you have a brilliant business mind.

Well, I appreciate it. I love the entrepreneurial side of it.

How in the fuck did you become a doctor? When you are clearly an entrepreneur.

I am.

I am. I mean, did you, when you were a kid growing up, did you fantasize about being a doctor or dream about being a doctor or being about being about being a business person?

So I, I tell you, have you seen the show The Bear?

Yeah. I can't watch more than like 4 or 5 episodes of it because that was my family growing up. So like, was that you?

That was me as well.

Get outta here.

That was me as well.

How in the world have I known you for 4 years and we've never had that conversation?

Yeah. So I mean, that's personal intimate kind of stuff, but I had a—

No, no, you and I have talked about a lot of shit.

Yeah. But, but very, very difficult childhood to where Uh, I'm actually no longer in touch with, with a big part of my family because—

Dude, I'm the same way.

Yeah.

I talk to one, I talk to one sibling.

Yeah, me to my sister. That's it. I have no—

are we—

And sparingly.

No, we're running.

That's okay. But I have no relationship with my mother, with my father, with my half-brother. No relationship because of some just toxic shit that I had to escape.

Dude, same thing with me.

You do? So yeah, so it, it, it—

This is when I did my journey on November 22nd. I was like, holy fuck. I understood. So I understood everything. Tracy, go ahead, dude.

No, I, I thought of you when you posted that. I was actually like thinking maybe I should reach out to that guy as well because—

Dude, you've gotta go see—

Your post was so moving to me. I was like, holy cow, that's amazing.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

You know my story, right? Because working with like, my dad died when I was 13.

Yeah.

I hadn't dealt with my father's death for 44 years.

Wow.

That 13-year-old kid was making every decision. It made the decisions of who I married, where I lived, what jobs I did, all of this.

Wow.

And I understood now why businesses would get to a certain level. So we were talking off camera, you're asking like, how's the year been?

Yeah.

And a lot of my old clients are like, what's going on?

Yeah, you're going through a lot. Yeah.

But it's not that I'm going through a lot, it's that I was like, oh, I realized my business can only get to here with that version of me.

Change who you are.

So I've had to go through this metamorphosis of who I am. It's amazing, right?

Yeah. I love— I actually, I have like chills. Like, like, dude, I had no idea. Yeah. So come full circle back to, to The Bear.

Verbally abusive? Physically abusive? What was it?

Mostly verbal, rarely physical. It was emotional and verbal.

Same. Which is— I'm not gonna say worse than physical.

It may be worse.

But I think it's physical.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I, I really believe— I, I never saw it this way until that show. And, and the finale was a season 4, the last one. Uh, have you watched up to date?

I've only— so I watched the first 3 episodes.

Okay.

Because everybody's like, you got to watch The Bear, because I'm from— obviously being from Chicago.

Okay.

And I couldn't watch it because it Literally traumatized me. Okay. And everybody's like, "Oh, have you seen the one with Jamie Lee Curtis's mom?" Like, I don't need to.

I lived that. Yeah.

So I do not need.

I lived the Christmas dinner episode. It was toward the end of season one. Was the was such a traumatic experience to watch that that episode because it was reliving what what I what you and I both went through as kids. Terrible, dude.

So I consider you a friend. We have spent a lot of time together outside of just talking business.

I don't share. I don't share.

I know, but we and I never really shared like. Yeah. I mean, I share the. Surface stuff is a— yeah, is a hook.

So, well, then I'll give you a little bit of a spoiler alert for the— because it'll answer your question. The end of season 4, he leaves. He quits the restaurant.

Good for him.

He gives it to Sydney. Literally gives it to her. They open their— he opens his lifelong dream was open his restaurant, opens a restaurant, and he gives it to Sydney. And the reason why is he realizes that He hated cooking, and that what it was was his escape from reality. And so to answer your question, me becoming a doctor as a kid was my escape from reality.

Are you shitting me? That answers a lot. That answers a lot of questions. Yeah, because I always ask him like, how the hell does this—

And this stuff that I would never have thought of before that show helped me, like, holy fuck, like, like That's me. And it was, it was, it was an emotional episode that last because I was like, holy, it's all me. That's my story. Like the whole 4 seasons of it.

So, so like, you weren't like a lot of my doctor clients that are like, they knew at 14 they were gonna be a doctor. You did it to escape.

I knew in 4th grade.

You knew in 4th grade?

4th grade. I was 9 years old. I knew I was gonna be a doctor. But I think it was as an escape. As an escape from then, from then on. I think that was my way of, of I'm gonna be okay. I'm always gonna be away from this. I'm gonna be able to survive because I'm gonna be a doctor and I'm gonna be better than everybody else and, and, and, you know, the entitlement and the prestige and the, and the position of being a doctor. When I was in, in 6th grade and I was selling candy out of a locker, I had, I had a separate locker. I would go to the ice cream truck after school every day. I would buy little boxes of like Lemonheads and Jawbreakers and Now and Laters for a quarter. I had a whole freaking locker full of just candy and I was selling it throughout the day and to my friends. And I would reload after school every day from when the ice cream— it was an ice cream truck outside of middle school. And like, I, I was like into arbitrage. I didn't know what it was. I was, I was a businessman then.

Arbitrage with candy. Great.

Business with candy.

Where did you grow up?

In the Dallas Airplane. Yeah.

Working class family?

Yeah. My, my mother remarried when I was young and he was a podiatrist. So we, he was a, a resident when they first met and we moved from Jersey to Texas when I was 7. And then we grew up there. He built his practice there as a podiatrist and, and that's where we grew up. Yeah. And so Plano was very suburbia. It's middle class.

Yeah.

And, and I just, I, I had it ingrained in my head that I was gonna be a doctor. Now, why and where and how did that come from? People ask me. I remember, I remember knowing I wanted to do it when I was in 4th grade, but now I can see how that was just my escape.

That is fascinating. That's like a lot with me with golf.

You too?

It was my escape.

Really?

So for me, golf was— so I was a short, fat, dumpy kid who got beat up all the time, right? And 'cause I was the youngest in my class, my birthday's November 13th, cutoff was November 1st. Yeah. So I'm the youngest in the class and I'm a male, like, so emotionally, developmentally, mentally, like everything.

Yeah.

I'm like a full year behind everybody else.

Okay.

Okay. And so I couldn't play football, I couldn't play baseball. Like I was always on the worst, like I had no athletic ability. Yeah. I couldn't play basketball.

Yeah.

And so I started playing golf and I was bullied so much that we were members of a country club, blue-collar country club in Chicago called Rolling Green Country Club. And even there I was bullied. And so I could go play golf by myself and nobody would bother me.

That was your escape?

That was my escape.

Wow.

And when my dad died, it was my escape.

That's what you did. Yeah.

Because my mom, that summer, my mom had to go close my father's law firm and we lived on 10 acres in an old farmhouse. 2.5 acres was fenced in and I was, nobody was there. I lived 5 miles from town and I hit wedges all around the yard and I had an imaginary golf course.

Wow.

And that's— golf was my escape.

Yeah.

And so then when we moved to Lake Barrington Shores, I started working in the bag room and it was the first time that I was liked because I could hustle.

Yeah.

And I could make tips. Yeah. And I could outwork everybody and I'd make more money in tips.

Wow.

And we kept the tips we made.

Yeah.

And so from there, I, I knew how to spit shine shoes. So the members would gimme their shoe— they didn't have a shoeshine guy. I learned they— that got around really quick. And then we had a car wash company. Yeah. And it was golf for me was the escape.

Wow.

So you're asking like, have I been playing much golf? I haven't.

Same thing.

Because it was an escape for me. I'm like, I was talking to Christina. I was like, you know, I don't play golf. I have zero desire to play golf.

You don't even miss it?

Yeah, I miss it a little bit.

Okay.

But yeah, it was the escape.

Wow.

For me. And I went into the golf business, became the escape.

Yeah. Wow. You've gone through quite a Quite an awakening.

Oh dude, this year, this is since November 22nd.

Like, yeah.

I mean, you know, to me, identities are an interesting thing. Like identities are put on us, right? And then we decide what to do with them and we kind of met 'em. Most people don't move through their identities.

Mm-hmm.

Like when I first met you, I'm like, I remember doing our first phone call. I'm like, this guy is not a doctor. I know you have doc, like I know it's MD, right?

I have the initials, but yeah.

You have the initials, but you are not a doctor.

Yeah.

I love the business side of it.

the medical clinical side of it. I do it because it's—

But you're really good at the medical clinical side.

I enjoy it.

Yeah. You're an incredible— I mean, obviously you've never— I mean, yeah, I see your work. I can tell when somebody knows what the fuck they're doing. Yeah. I mean, you're brilliant at it.

Oh, I appreciate it.

But you're way better at the business.

I'd much rather scale it and, and, and have a bigger impact by training 100,000 doctors to do what I'm doing rather than me be the practitioner doing it.

Yeah. Yeah. So is that the goal? Train 100,000 doctors?

Uh, no, 100 and then 1,000 doctors.

Yeah, like 100 and then 1,000. So that's the goal.

Yeah, that's my goal now is to get them, get them licensed and running my program. That's where I can see a lot of synergy. Yeah, because I don't want to necessarily run a mastermind, I don't want to run a coaching program, you know. It's really get them into the license and that's where it can really grow and scale, you know. And that's where I see a lot of synergy with what you're doing and what I'm doing, where I think there's ways we can potentially work together there.

Absolutely. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I just, I love your competitive fire.

I appreciate it. Well, and you as well in this.

Well, come on, dude, you're way more competitive than I am.

That may be true.

Right. I've never met anybody pore over Survivor pools as much as you do.

A lot of spreadsheets.

A lot of spreadsheets. So those of you don't know, Tracy's in the Survivor pool and I've been, I wasn't in it this year, but it's this big thing that you do at one of the, yeah. And it's basically you gotta pick a game and teams. And anyway, it's a fascin— you can look it up. It's a fascinating thing. So business is good.

Business is great.

So tell me. Yeah. So when we first started, yeah, let's get, let's get rid of a little bit of history here.

Yes. So we met 4 years ago. Something like that.

From Tracy Page, I think, introduced us because you were in Seed's mastermind.

I wasn't. Uh, no, actually I was in Mindshare. Actually, it was—

Mindshare? Was it Mindshare?

It was not Duffy, but Deb. Deb Matthew.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah. Deb wasn't even a client then and she recommended you.

That's right. So Deb suggested I talk to you. She wasn't even in the mastermind yet until I got the mastermind. And then she asked me how it was. I'm like, it's great. You need to come in and join the mastermind. So she came in the program. Deb would refer clients to me.

We're both in Charlotte, right?

That's right.

Deb would refer clients to me and like, I'm like, Deb, you're not even a client. She goes, yeah, but I know what you know what you're doing. That's right. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, so I had been through several masterminds at that point. I had been through some chiropractors, some functional medicine ones, some virtual practice ones, all kinds of different masterminds. And then when I was in Mindshare, it was still not directed toward my expertise, toward my focus of, of precision medicine, of how do you scale a, a medical practice in this space of cash-based world.

Mm-hmm.

And you were the one that I was actually teaching, helping doctors do that. Yeah. That's what was so awesome and unique about you at the time. It wasn't even Mavericks yet. It was a different, it was, yeah, it was, it was SRP Medical Marketing.

It was an offshoot of my, I had, I had an agency and then I hated having an agency. Yeah. Because like, that's, you can never keep people happy enough.

Like, yeah. You had Steel Mill, that, uh, in the mastermind.

We actually created Steel Mill was the mastermind.

That's right. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so it was great. Yeah. So I, I jumped right in with you at that point because I needed someone to gimme that, that business guidance that I, I had not really gotten at that point.

What did you do your first year being open? Do you remember the, I think, I think it was like $90,000. 90.

And then your second year, we did, but we, yeah. But, but to be clear, we are, I left medical, uh, urology.

Yeah, you're a urologist. You're making like, what, $700 a year or something?

$750, $800, somewhere give or take, somewhere in that ballpark. And then June 30th of '21 was my last day in urology. June 30th, 2021. July 1st, I'm at home. I have nowhere to go because our, our office that we were building out at Gap Institute in Sarasota was still a shell. And like—

In a beautiful facility, by the way.

Thank you. It ended up very nice, but The contractor was a disaster. He was, um, negligent. It was—

I hear this story every day.

It was ugly. So, so we went from July 1st until December 4th or something like that with no office. So I had spent about 9, 10 months building out the office. It was supposed to be ready by July 1st.

Yeah.

It took till December before we can actually get the office open. And so staff was working from home in their bunny slippers and we were doing some virtual stuff as much as we could, but doesn't at that point. We hadn't figured things out yet. We were still struggling. So I made $90,000 that first year.

That's a big—

that's it. Yeah. But that was technically from July or December 4th until, you know, the end of the year. So, but then next year we made $2.1 million.

I remember that.

So, you know, you're— So big, big jump from that second, from the first to the second year, once we were in there, once we were going and we jumped to $2.1 million.

Yeah. How, how did you do it? Like, how do you go from $90,000 to $2.1 million in a year?

I joked with you, I think at one point that it was an accident that we don't, you know, we don't, it was, it was—

Which by the way, that's perfectly fine if it's an accident.

It was my mistake.

Yeah. Yeah. It's almost, those are the best discoveries.

It was working my ass off. It was iterating and refining my messaging and pivoting and testing. And you know, you're either winning or you're learning kind of concept that I was, I was okay that if, if something didn't work, I would just try something else. And I kept trying and trying different offers and I get guys into programs and we were, offering Gainswave services as well. So I was doing Gainswave, PRP. So I was doing services in the office as well as some guys from my previous life were still coming for testosterone. So I was just doing small—

That was a small percentage.

Small percentage. Yeah. But we just, we were just grinding away. We had a very small, lean staff. So I had, you know, one employee to begin with. And then I think we had 4 employees when brick and mortar opened. And, uh, we kind of gr— like just grinded our way through it that first year, but we didn't know what we were doing. I, I can honestly tell you we had no systems in place when I, when I met you.

Oh, you were like—

I had nothing. I had no SOPs. I didn't have number— I didn't know what numbers to look at. I had a P&L, but I didn't know how the hell to really do anything with it. I would just say, yeah, there's my numbers. I, so we were making money, but it was a joke that it was on accident.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You were making money. Remember you said whatever the number was, you made whatever you'd made, $200,000 or something like that?

Yeah.

Yeah. And I go, well, what'd you pay yourself? And he goes, well, I paid myself the $200,000. And I go, right. So you weren't taking a salary? No. I'm like, so you weren't profitable this year? And you were like, no, no, no, I made $200 grand. I'm like, Tracy.

Yeah. It was all being reinvested. I was just reinvesting it back in the company. Yeah.

Which is, look, to break even, make $200 grand, however you wanna look at it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Either way, it's a win, right?

It was a win. Yeah. It was a win that we were never in the red. Not, not one year have we actually lost money, which was, um, which was quite a feat in and of itself in the beginning there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And today what, uh, you don't have to share revenue numbers if you don't, but like, if you don't want to, but that's right. What are you— what are you guys doing? What's your practice like today? So, um, first and foremost, how many patients do you see?

So I actually have 2 patients and they're both VIPs though. So what I did was— What do they pay you? So $45K for 6 months.

For 6 months?

$45K for 6 months. And one of them actually gave me another— I added on a $10K travel package where I fly out to see him in Woodland, California, outside of Sacramento. So once a quarter I fly out there for $5K each time, basically spend a couple hours with him in person. And he loves it because I'm actually spending time with him and giving him me, which is, you know, our most valuable commodity, right? Assets are time.

Absolutely.

So, so $10K on top of that, that $45K as well. And so if people wanna work with me, that's the number for a 6-month program. Otherwise it's $15K to work with my team. And that's when I'm on calls with anyone, I'll push 'em toward like, work with my team. You don't wanna work with me kind of thing. And if, and if someone does, I'll just raise the prices. 'Cause that's My, my, my goal is not to get VIP clients. My goal is to build my team and, and scale it. Yeah.

So that's probably blown a bunch of minds right now.

I know. I don't want patients.

Why?

Yeah, because I'm, you know, the EOS model of visionary integrator. I'm the visionary and I have an integrator, you know, second in command, chief of staff, who is really running the operations side of things. If I'm seeing patients, that's taking me outta my visionary lane. It's taking me away from what I should be doing, which is thinking. First of all, I get paid to think. Right, right. Like, and you as well. Like, my job is to think and to create and to, um, and to build and to write and to, and to develop our programs. And I can't do that if I'm seeing a patient.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so there's— I don't even know what that number is, but there's not enough value in me spending time with a patient when I can train 100 doctors to see patients in that time instead. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that's a big— I mean, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. Like, I'll use Ash Goyal, Dr. Goyal, as an example. Yep. He loves being a doctor. Yeah. And, you know, I had dinner with he and Nikki, Christina and I had dinner with he and Nikki, uh, I don't know, 2 months ago or something like that. Yeah. And we were having this conversation. I'm like, but Ash, you love being a doctor, so don't be Tracy Gatpin. Yeah. Like, that's Tracy's journey.

Yeah.

You're fine. He's like, I love seeing my patients.

Yeah.

I love talking to 'em. I love giving 'em my cell phone. I'm like, then do that.

Right.

Right. If you're happy doing that.

Right.

I think a lot of people think our program's like, oh, it's about exiting and selling and growing to multiple locations. No, it's about living. It's about building a practice that matches your soul. Yeah.

And this goes back to where you and I started with, you know, why'd I become a doctor, how'd I become a doctor? And I'm really an entrepreneur in my blood. And so to me, you know, I, I ask the question, what do I have to do to love what I do? Like, what is it that I'm going to love?

Oh, that's a great question. What do I have to do to love what I do?

Yeah. I just actually just made that up right now, but I, I say, Every day though, I say I love what I do. And so I think about what, what is it that I love doing? And if I don't love doing it, I shouldn't do it. Mm-hmm. And so I really have built from day one, way before you and I even met, you, you, you, I had 2 PAs when you and I met.

Yep.

And, and the whole plan was how, how do I build a team so that I don't have to see patients? 'Cause I knew that's not what my long-term goal was. So I agree with you and I love that you taught that in the mastermind of, you know, mm-hmm. Build what you love, build it so that it fits you and who you want to be and who you want your practice to emulate. And for me, it's, I'd much rather have my PAs be badasses and have doctors that I train be badasses. To me, it's almost like your kids. Like, I get so much more joy from that.

Isn't that great? Yeah. Yeah.

Than me seeing a patient myself.

Yeah. I think that's just so fascinating. So what do you think gets in the way of doctors being successful? What do you think their biggest challenge is when they go and they start a practice?

God. Science of Scaling. You read that Ben Hardy book? I haven't read that one. So he, he just really, it came out in July. Okay. Um, I, I got the pre-release. I met him through Genius Network, so I, I, I got to read it in February and it, and it blew my mind. What he talks about in the Science of Scaling is get rid of all the shit that's distracting you. And when you raise your floor, you basically clear out all the stuff that you shouldn't be doing. So what I realized is I look at every minute of the day, what am I doing? And if something else, someone else can be doing that, if it doesn't fit my visionary lane, then I should not and cannot be doing it. So when you and I first met, I'm, I'm doing like GoHighLevel automations.

I remember you were working GoHighLevel. You were seeing—

I'm writing emails and I'm doing all kinds of nonsense. I'm doing like, like, like working on the web, on the WordPress, moving stuff around and font stuff and all. I shouldn't be doing any of that stuff. And so to answer your question, I think it's, we do all the stuff that we shouldn't be doing instead of focusing on how do I build the business?

Mm-hmm.

And the business is, you know, your brand is who you are. It's the messaging. It's, you know, what I do, what Ash does, what Josh does, whatever, you know, each of us do is so different. You have to, I think you have to really let that shine and you can't when you're stuck in the weeds and all the nonsense.

Yeah. So Josh was saying, 'cause he just was here doing the interview.

Yeah.

He was saying the biggest challenge that the doctors have is they Focus on one. So you have a patient there and all you're doing is you're focusing on that patient. And if something goes wrong with that patient, then you look at everything that you've done in the past and you start making changes to it, which is not a statistically relevant thing to do. Right. He said, the interesting thing about business owners is we don't think of that just singular thing. We think of the entirety. So like, instead of just looking at the one issue that went wrong.

Yeah.

We look at the entire big picture, like the entire thing. And I thought that was really interesting because I find so many doctors, they get stuck. They have like, this is how things are done. They operate in a box.

Yeah.

Whereas you and I both know as an entrepreneur, it's like, who needs a box? Screw the box. I don't want the box. Let me go create my own box or let me go blow up the box. What are your thoughts on that? Like, what are you like?

Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it's, Being stuck in operator mode instead of owner mode. And it's a very different perspective. I think when you're focused on just taking care of one patient like that, you're still being a doctor. And, and I don't think that's— I don't think that's easy to scale, to grow and build a business around that. I think that— I think thinking of it in, in systems, how can I— How can I create a consistent scalable model so that it happens whether I'm there or not.

Yeah.

Yeah. Right. And, and if I'm, if I'm the practitioner and, you know, one thing that I love that, that you really instilled in me very early, which was game-changing for me, was creating SOPs.

Oh yeah.

And I didn't have any when you, when I first met you. I, I knew what we were doing, but it wasn't on paper. It wasn't actually, and it doesn't just mean you could say, oh, in my head, I, I know it. No, no. It has to be actually written down somewhere. documented that someone can look at. And so I used, I think, Trainual in the beginning, and then we were Notion, and now we're in 90.io and wherever you— it doesn't matter.

Whatever the tool is, the tool is.

It doesn't matter. Is everything clearly documented for every position in the company? So whoever I bring in, there's a playbook that's already been built on how to do that. We're not reinventing the wheel and that it's a methodical process that happens in everything that's done.

So Walk me through.

Yeah.

You bring on a new staff member. How do you onboard 'em?

So I don't onboard myself. I have a team now, by the way. Yeah.

I hope y'all heard that.

Yeah.

He's not onboarding no more stuff. No.

Hell no.

Do you even know how to log into this stuff?

I, I'm very techie, so I know how to log in for myself, but I, I stay away. My team tells me to stay the hell away. But your employee, like my client care coordinator, makes the SOP, the playbook for client care coordinators. I don't make that.

Right.

The concierge, same thing. Every position, they make their playbook for their own position. And then my director of operations and my second in command, they make the playbook for higher level, you know, onboarding so that I, I don't need to be doing that. Again, that's a distraction taking me away from what I need to be doing, building programs, creating content, that kind of stuff. And so to answer your question, I'm not involved at all. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's an important thing is that people, And how long did it take for you to get to that place where you're not involved? You do like control.

I do like it. It was, you know what, it was in the last year, maybe, maybe specifically even 9 months where I learned to, uh, and I went through—

What shifted?

I went through more training in, in operations and that VI relationship. So people who don't know EOS, V is the visionary, I is the integrator, and they're 2 very different roles. You know, the, the owner is the visionary, uh, i.e., me or the owner of the company, the founder, the CEO, where it's the creator of things, creator of content, creator of programs. And, you know, what do, what do I want the business to look like? And then the integrator is one who implements it, makes it happen. And so Elizabeth, who's been with me forever, she is my integrator.

But she is, yeah, she's been with you for forever.

And she's amazing. She was a director of operations, kind of just getting shit done kind of person. Now she's elevated to know how to actually think and how to actually put together a plan so that I'm not— up until earlier this year, I was still making decisions and then she would go implement them.

You would tell her what to go do.

I'd tell her what to do.

Yeah. She's just hilarious. Like the last thing the visionary should tell the integrator to do.

Should we be doing that?

Right.

But I didn't know any better. I still didn't know any better. I had all this and, and, and this was a big flaw that I recognized was that I had all these people that I was still managing. I was still telling 'em what to do.

I know. Isn't that nuts? You hire these people to make life better.

And I didn't, I didn't realize I was the bottleneck. I was the freaking bottleneck. I didn't even realize it. And so now I, I'm very, very intentional and I still screw up. And, and Elizabeth and I just talked yesterday about a situation where, uh, I'll give you guys a great example of this, of how I overstepped in making a decision.

Yep.

So the decision was a closer. So we needed a new closer. We had to prematurely terminate our closer who He just needed to go. I, I, it's one of those situations where you'd rather have no one than have him. Right.

No, I understand completely. Yeah.

And so I had to jump in and do, do sales for a little bit for closing, cuz there's no one else and, and no one can sell it quite like, you know, me, the, the founder. And for a little while, so I was closing for a little bit and then we found this great new guy who looked like a unicorn. And whenever they look like unicorn, unicorn, they're not right. They don't, they just don't exist.

There's a reason why they don't exist.

Exactly. You think they exist, but then you realize they do not.

No, they do not. They do not exist.

And so this, this unicorn came in and And he looked the part, played the part, sounded the part, everything looked great. Within 2 weeks, very clearly there was a culture problem. And, you know, you helped me early on, you know, really focus on building culture and core values and all that kind of stuff. And very early, Elizabeth recognized that. And great example of how I had zero interaction with this closer because I'm staying in my lane.

Right.

I'm the visionary. I don't manage the team. She's managing the team, onboarding this, this new closer, training him in our systems and our process and, Our programs and all that. And she raised the red flag. Massive problem here. She comes to me and she tells me what she wants to do. And I said, well, let me jump on a call. Let me, let's get on a call together, the 3 of us. So I get on a call, overstepped. I got on a call with my integrator, who's chief, chief of staff is her formal title, and this closer. And I can see how there's a way to make it work potentially.

Because that's what we do.

Because that's what we do. We, we fix, like, like men.

I can— yeah, I can figure out—

We can make it work. And, and it was just this because of this, you know. And, and, and she was still like, in her gut she knew it was a problem. And I said, you make the decision, Elizabeth, but— and then but insert—

Yeah, the but means I don't really give a shit what you said.

The but is I'm gonna give my subconscious influence of what I think, which is what you should do. I realize that in hindsight, like, I'm still making this mistake today, so I'm learning, but I'm much quicker at learning it now where I, I, you know, by the next day I realize, shit, I just influenced your decision in that. And, and the next day we very quickly realized he just needed to go. And so he's gone. And so that was her gut decision to not keep him another day. And I almost—

I mean, you haven't learned that women's intuition is better than ours, right?

Yeah, she's very wise. Very wise. They're all very wise.

Why do you think I have mostly women on my team?

Right. They're smart. They know.

They have way more wisdom. Yeah, they see things that we don't.

Right. But it's also creating core values. And we repeated— I mean, you, you instilled this in us. Every week we talk core values and we review them and give examples it and everyone's bought in. And when someone's not fitting into those core values, it, it's just a red flag. It jumps out. It's so obvious. And because I'm not involved, I didn't see it. She did. And here I am trying to, you know, see if I can fix it when he just needed to go as well. And so she meant, yeah.

It's interesting because I think that trust is a very important component to growth. So you have to trust your prospects.

Yeah.

Right. You have to trust your patients.

Mm-hmm.

You have to trust your staff. But the foundation that exists, all of it that holds those pillars up and holds the roof in place.

Yeah.

Is the trust of yourself.

Mm-hmm.

And like, if you really think about that, like most people really don't trust themselves like that, right?

Yeah.

What you're saying is when you were jumping in, you, most people think you were saying, well, I don't. I don't trust Elizabeth. What you're really saying is, I don't trust myself that I've, that Elizabeth is really the right one. You understand what I'm saying? Like, it's this massive shift. And I was at a, I did a session up in Northern California a couple of days up in Mount Shasta, which is a whole nother story for, like, was just wild. Right. And energetic. Just, okay. What the hell just happened?

Yeah.

And that's what she was like, you don't trust yourself.

Mm-hmm.

I said, what do you mean you don't trust my— don't trust myself? She goes, you don't trust yourself. That's why things are stuck. And when we examined it, and I'm like, yep, you're right. Literally came back the next day and we had like, we signed up like 2 new members, full pay. Well, or one was a full pay and one was a half pay or something like that. Yeah. Whatever the deal was. But like, you just saw this massive energetic shift. And I think that's really what I'm hearing is it wasn't that you didn't trust Elizabeth, it's that you didn't trust yourself that you've done enough to teach Elizabeth.

Yeah. Yeah, I think you're spot on.

You know?

Yeah. When when she knew the answer, and I should have just let her let her go with it.

Well, how hard is that? Why is why do you think it's so? Why do you think it's so hard for you particular fear? Okay, tell me about fear of failure. Fear of what does failure mean to you?

I I recognize often just a couple hours ago how. I will often have to stop myself, often will correlate my value with the success of the company.

Mm-hmm.

And, and if the company fails or if we have to lose an employee who doesn't belong, but it's still a failure when revenue doesn't hit targets, when net doesn't hit targets, when something doesn't go as planned, when a funnel doesn't work like, like we want it to, when we don't have enough people on the webinar show up. Those are all, you know, failures, which are basically a reflection of, of me and my value and my worth.

Right.

And, and that's right. That's the, the, the fear of failing is really here, not the business.

And so, and plus you put so much pressure on yourself given your background. You wanna prove something to them.

Yes.

Right.

Yeah.

Because this is, this was my life, dude.

Yeah. You too. Yeah.

Right. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Up until, up until February of this year. Yeah.

Yeah.

It was all about how fast can we grow? How much money we making?

Mm-hmm.

You know, the house, the car, not so much the house and the car for me, but it was a little bit of it.

Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. You wanna prove something?

Yeah. So I, I have to be very intentional in my mind about separating the two. And my value is not the company. Gap Institute, Peak Launch, Peak Launch MD license can all go away. And that doesn't change who I am, my value, my worth. That, that's, that's really what it comes down to.

But do you really believe that?

I believe that that's a reflect— that the success of the company is a reflection of the hard work and my resilience and who I am. So yes, but at the same time, I'll be okay if the company goes under. I'll still be okay.

Financially or emotionally?

Both.

I don't think you'd be fine emotionally if the company went under. I know you pretty well. I think you would take it pretty hard.

I, I would take it hard, but I, I, that's why I tell myself, well, that's kind of what I was trying to get to. The right answer. I know the right answer on the quiz. And even though I will initially feel that sense of failure, I have to tell myself through, from the, the training and, you know, everything I've gone through and leadership and all that, that, that it is not me, it's the company. And the two are very different. And like, you look at Bezos, if a company is pissed off, unhappy with their experience in with Amazon, he doesn't give a shit.

No.

It's not him, it's the company. It's just numbers. It's just another customer. Okay. You know, whereas My instinct, my natural tendency, because I'm a creator, if I have an unhappy patient, client, someone who doesn't buy, whatever, you know, it's— yeah, you take it personally. And I have to tell myself not to. Yeah.

I think the hardest thing for me when going bankrupt, when I went bankrupt in 2010, was the ongoing digital shame.

Mm-hmm.

Because I had And looking back in it, I know I created the environment. There was a lot that existed in that with a lot of the work that I've done. And I kind of could see the pattern in my family, my lineage of my family, of the age that that happened and when it happened to me, because that happened to other people in my family as well. And great book, by the way, is It Didn't Start with You.

It what?

It Didn't Start with You. It's a great book. And it talks about lineage and family and all that stuff.

Yeah.

Sins of a father being passed forward 3 generations and all that.

Right. Oh, wow.

Okay. It's a great book. That and Body Keeps the Score.

Okay.

Body Keeps the Score. And It Didn't Start with You. 2 great books if you really want to, okay. When you really want to like dive into this shit. Yeah. Now it's going to rock your world a little bit. Right. Yeah. I've done this with Dr. Haas, with Will Haas. Okay.

It's like, fuck.

But it really addresses the issue. Right. So what happens is that for me, that digital shame, 'Cause it's still in the record, right? And there's still some legacy things that happened with that.

Yeah.

That are still there. Yep. And I can't get rid of 'em. And I still have a lot, I've had a lot of shame about them because I worked so hard to build something and to prove something to the family.

Mom. Yep.

Dad was already passed away, but to mom, brothers, sisters, hey, look at me.

Oh yeah.

Prove something to my then wife. Yep. Prove something to my kids.

Yeah.

That, you know, you say to yourself, you're gonna be okay. It's taken me a long time to get to like process that. It's taken a good 15 years. Yeah. You know, cuz it's just a challenge. It's tough because guys like you and I, we do what we do to prove something.

You know, it's definitely a competitive edge.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. I mean, how much, how much fun do you like? How much do you love to win?

Come on. It's other than my kids, my wife, it's probably everything.

Yeah. Yeah.

I wanna win. Is your son still beating you at golf? I, I can't beat him. Yeah.

He's really good.

Yeah. I got elbow problems now cuz my, my swing is so bad. I, I can't beat him.

Yeah. That's, that's your excuse is the elbow problem?

That's my excuse now. That's, that's just my excuse now.

Okay. All right.

We'll go with it.

Never mind. You've had 2 par putt shots. So how do you, cuz I know you've had failures, how do you deal with it? How do you deal with when, and I won't, let's not even use the word failure.

Yeah.

When things don't go according to plan.

Yeah. So the, you know, textbook answer, the answer to the quiz— I don't want the fucking textbook answer. But what I tell myself is you're either winning or you're learning. And so what I— what I— I'm intentional about it because instinct is to goddamn it and get upset and stress and let it crush you. I look at it as, what can I take from this? How can I learn from this? Example, I'm now licensing my Peak Launch program. I had a doctor who joined very early before he was ready. Didn't know what he was doing. He wanted, he wanted to go fast, go fast. I'm like, you're not, you, you're not ready yet. There's some things that you need to learn ahead of time first. You need to prepare. No, no, I gotta go. Gotta go. He failed.

Mm-hmm.

You know, the immediate response is I failed, but then I stop and think, well, what can I learn from this? What can I take from this? How can I make it better next time?

Do you spend a lot of time In that, after that failure, how much time do you spend beating yourself up or being sad about it or being at a low point?

Yeah, in the past it was a long time.

How long?

Days. Yeah. Week. Yeah. Now it's, it's hours. Is it? I compared like, like when Tiger hit a bad shot, he was allowed to take 10 steps and it's got to be gone. And I tell my son in golf as well, you get 10 steps, whatever emotion, it's got to be gone. You got on your next shot. So I, I now tell myself, you're the winner or you're learning. You're the winner or you're learning. Winner or you're learning. Like over and over until I can get myself to focus on what did I learn from that? How can I be better next time? How can I iterate to make it so it doesn't happen again?

Yeah.

And with my team, I'm like, you can screw up once. You can do any— I have an EA right now who, she's great. She went through some growing pains in the beginning. You can relate. I keep— yeah. Yes. And, and I told her, you can make any mistake, but only once. You can't make the same mistake twice. You gotta learn from it. And so that's what I try to do. It's hard though. It's freaking hard.

It's really hard because the, you know, so I used to try, I was, I've always been really good at processing pain. Like I'm, I have an amazing ability that I'm incredibly resilient, right? Like, okay, you take your chops. Yeah. You take your hit on the chin.

Yeah. Keep going.

You pick yourself up.

Yeah.

You dust yourself off. You keep going. I think part of it's because of my experience playing golf.

Mm-hmm.

Right. You have to, you're onto the next shot.

Yep.

I had anger issues as a kid growing up, so like, just, okay. NATO golf, not attached to outcome. Okay. The problem though is that I found is that if we don't, if we move past the pain too quick, we actually miss the lessons.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So there's a really delicate balance. Like, I understand, okay, we're gonna move forward.

Yeah.

But I think you also have to then carve out time to go—

That's powerful.

To like, you know what, I'm moving forward.

Yep.

And I'm gonna rest in the pain because the pain is a beautiful lesson.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's not that you're ignoring the, the, the negative outcome or whatever happened that, that the unfortunate, you know, whatever the mistake or whatever it was. I, I love that cuz it's not about ignoring it. It's what can you take from it? How can you learn from it so it doesn't freaking happen again? Yeah.

Family member, just marriage just ended after they've been together 46 years.

Oh, wow.

Married, whatever, 38 or something like that. And it just ended. And he's like ready to pack up his shit and leave and all that. I'm like, you need to just breathe. Don't move past the pain. Don't wallow in the pain.

Yeah.

But don't move past the pain because there's lessons. There's still lessons to be learned. There's still things to grow from. There's things, there's still rough edges that need to be sanded off of you. Like there's, the process is still going on.

Yeah.

I think that's the beauty of business. I think that's the beauty of life. But I think in the mode that we operate in, I think that's the beauty of business is like, you're just always sanding a rough edge, you know?

Love that. That's powerful.

Because think about it, it's never going to end. Right? Right.

There's always something.

You're going to build another table, right? You're going to build another chair, right?

No offense. I love that.

Right.

That's true.

You know?

Yeah.

I mean, and I think that's, I think that's one of the things that I really appreciate. You know, I have probably a handful of clients past And current clients that get that, that are really— they're business people trapped in a doctor's body.

Mm-hmm.

You know? So do you still spend a lot of time like on the protocols?

The clinical protocols?

Yeah, the health protocols.

I do not. I do not. So my, my team, my PAs do that. I'll meet with them every other week. We'll spend an hour just on looking at, you know, new research. How do we need to change our protocol kind of stuff?

Are they making the decisions about treatments?

They will come to me with stuff and I'll, I'll, I'll still be yay or nay. I'm still, you know, medical director in, in a sense. So I'm still, uh, right from a business standpoint.

Right.

Like for example, there's a new blood test out that can look for risk of Alzheimer's, cognitive decline kind of stuff. Some specific labs that are now, and so creating new protocols around that kind of, that, that's the kind of stuff that we now integrate. What labs are included in the program, what's not, how do we decide what's important, what's not important and stuff like that. So, but we, we're, we're pretty stable now with our, with our protocols in that sense. We'll add stuff here and there, but it's more just being up to date on the latest research, new peptides that came out, how can you use it, that kind of stuff.

So, are you spending a lot of time reading that research? You still going to— outside of getting your CMEs, like, you still go to a lot of events? Like, will you go to A4M and sit and listen to all of that, or—

No, no, no. I'll go to A4M and I'll catch the highlights, and I'll often check the recordings afterwards so that I can, you know, fly through them quicker and get the key bullet points. I am a, yeah, I'm one of those where I just want the summary. And so—

And you'll dive deeper if you want to get into something that's really compelling.

Exactly. I'm much more interested in the business side of it. I spend a lot of my time at A4M in the exhibit hall trying to put pieces together and connections and how can I use this tool and that to build something bigger and better. And That's what I love doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think there is, you know, if I can just get a doctor to take 20% of their learning desire and move it from medicine to business, it'd be a game changer.

Yeah.

Right.

That's about most doctors. They love the clinical part of it. And there's so much clinical training, you know, whether you, you go to A4M or IFM or AMMG or SSRP, whatever it is, all these letters, they just fucking keep them all straight. What?

They all have A in them.

Yeah. They, you know, most doctors, they love to go through the clinical training. And for me, none of that was what got me here. None of that helped me here. Everything you, you kind of know enough. You can go through functional medicine training and hormones to, to, to refine some things that you need some education on. But the biggest game changer for me was working with you.

Mm-hmm.

Was learning how to run a bit, how to build a business, how to build a team and create systems. And that's what has led to our success. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

There is, I think it's some point, and I think in functional medicine we're pretty much there, we're getting there in regenerative in both those markets. We're definitely there in functional where, remember when like, remember when Intel was coming out with a new chip like every, whatever it was, every 6 months and they were like doubling the speed and doubling the speed. Remember that? And then they just, you know, that Intel's like now struggling to stay afloat.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Remember how they were darling and everything? Yeah. I think even the government's looking at taking like a, a stake in the business to like keep it alive because from a— defense standpoint. And I think we're kind of there from a functional medicine standpoint. From my viewpoint, there's, I don't see a lot of massive innovations happening right now. I see incremental improvements.

I would agree with that.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'd agree with that.

When do you, why do you think that? Is it, if we, is it hubris to say that we've learned enough about the human body?

I mean, we're constantly learning, but there, there has not been any, a lot of massive leaps lately. You know, it's interesting how Longevity has become such a buzzword now. Yeah, and it is the hot topic. Everyone is a longevity physician, longevity expert, longevity medicine, all that.

I think my barber's in longevity, probably.

But you know that there's there's no science that shows that we are extending lifespan in humans at all.

Really?

Yeah. No, yeah.

You wouldn't say that we are?

Hell no! I want to be.

Oh, come on, seriously, dude. You want to tell me that with all the work I've done over the last ten years, I'm not going to be living longer?

You're improving your healthspan. So, healthspan, the quality of your life so that, you know, let's say you're going to die at 90. You're improving your quality of life so that you'll be much healthier, you'll be more robust, you'll be more physically active and strong and perform at a higher level until a later age in life. But, as of now, all the longevity studies, all the research that has shown extension of life has only been in animal, worm, rat studies. Nothing in humans so far has shown we're actually extending lifespan.

We're just improving Healthspan, quality of life.

Right now, a lot of people believe there are studies like rapamycin is the most commonly referred to molecule that we think may extend lifespan, but we don't know yet. It's still too early. No, they thought, they thought it was metformin. They thought it was resveratrol. No and no.

Right.

Fasting may do it, we think, but that's in animal studies. We still don't really know in humans. And so I, I like to kind of temper.

So we haven't made the leap from the animals to the human.

We don't know yet. And, and there's a lot of examples in science to where what happens in an, in an an animal and a rat doesn't work the same in humans. You can't extrapolate necessarily that it's gonna be the same. And so we're improving performance, we're improving quality of life, healthspan. And that's when I think of longevity, I'm really clear with my patients. I, I, I talk about health optimization because you can improve the quality of your life, your energy, you can feel strong.

Right.

And you can look good and you can have great sex and you can perform better on the golf course and, and Ironman, whatever. But in terms of living longer, There's nothing out there yet. Fascinating. Yeah. And so this whole Bryan Johnson— what's that?

You know, I'm not gonna live to 120, so I was just gonna ask.

You may, Bryan. It, it's—

I was just gonna ask.

I believe it's absurd. I think it's, it's, you know, you're looking at these metrics that, you know, biologic age— we, we do biologic age testing with our patients, with our clients, but it's in some sense it's still entertainment.

I always thought it was kind of a bullshit made-up number.

It, it's You know, there's some quantifiable, you know, metrics that you can look at in terms of methylation patterns on DNA that, but we still don't know that by changing that, are we actually extending lifespan? We still haven't made that, that connection yet.

Well, the science is so still so relatively new.

Mm-hmm.

Like if you look at, if you look at the, this is my non-medical, right? Yeah. So now Matt's gonna be like, quote unquote, Dr. Matt.

Yeah.

But I'm gonna look at this from just a simplistic viewpoint.

Yeah.

If you look at how long the human race has been on the earth, right? And you look at how long we've been studying healthspan longevity, it's not even a fleck of dust. Like we are literally at the beginning stages.

Yep.

And when I say that, I feel like a lot of the innovations are done, I think because we're trying to test the same, I think we're looking for the thing versus maybe say, The entirety of the process.

Yeah. I think you're, you're, you're spot on there that, that it's, it's a very holistic perspective you're talking about.

And we look at individual things, but we don't understand how that impacts everything else around it. Right. Yeah.

I agree. And it's so early in the research. We don't know yet. You're right. I think we are making progress, but toward what? We, who knows? Yeah.

Right. We're making progress. It's like, where are we going?

It's like you're 6 feet from goal, but you don't know, like what, you don't know what that's going to be yet. We have no idea. Right. So I think there's still innovation, but I think we're, we're, we've stalled a little bit in that regard.

Where's the innovation gonna happen in the industry? You think it's gonna be about getting it into more people's hands?

I think there's a lot of DNA, of genetic editing kind of stuff that's happening, which I think is a super scary, dangerous slippery slope. Yeah.

No shit.

Yeah.

I mean, about the fact that they got, they were able to recreate that wolf from 10,000 years ago.

Yeah.

Have you seen that?

Crazy.

I mean, like, do we really want that? Because it only takes like one knucklehead to open up the door, right?

So yeah, the gene editing stuff, there's a lot of controversy around that because you just don't know. Like, like you just said, everything's connected, and when you make one change here, what does that do over here?

Yeah, just because something's gone, it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing that it's gone. Yeah, like just because the species, the whatever that wolf is, it was the care wolf or the howl wolf.

Yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever the fuck it is.

Is that— do we really want it back? I don't care. Like, you know, and what's that really going to do to the human race? Like, maybe they eat humans. Maybe they were killed off because they were killing too many humans.

There you go.

You know?

Yeah.

So yeah, it's fascinating. It is a fascinating thing. I'm fascinated by the whole anti-aging longevity, pick a phrase, because the thing that fascinates me the most, I'm fascinated by the doctors I have a friend of mine who unfortunately has gotten very, very sick. And this person has been like on a lot of anti-aging protocols for the last 20 years.

Okay.

We don't know for sure, but it looks like it's cancer, right? And it's like an aggressive form of cancer.

I'm sorry. Yeah.

And they've done everything right, quote unquote, you know, like, or you, when you see like the longevity docs, like I've been doing it for like 40 years and then like they can't finish a sentence because their brain is Like, yeah, we really just don't seem to know.

Right. As much as we know, we still don't know.

Isn't that fascinating? Like, we're making great, like, look at us, we're great, but we just don't really seem to have— yeah. What do you, what's the problem? What's the problem that you see in American healthcare today? Like, if you could fix Amer— and this is not a simple answer.

Yeah.

What are some of the things you see? Because we spend the most, more than any other country in the world.

Mm-hmm.

We've got the worst outcome.

Chronic disease. It, it's metabolic health, which means simply blood sugar control. You know, people think of that as just for diabetics.

Mm-hmm.

But all of us have issues with metabolic health without realizing it. I shouldn't say all, but it's a big problem. People don't realize it. Our hormones are massively disrupted by chemicals in our daily life. So chemicals in our drinking water, chemicals in our food, personal care products, these toxins, they're endocrine disruptors. Oh my God.

I just started reading on the personal care products and the sunblocks and I don't use sunblock.

They're everywhere.

I'm using zinc.

Yeah.

Like the soap you use? Yeah.

So I'm, I'm, I'm really obsessed with avoiding endocrine disruptors and, you know, your, uh, or your laundry detergent, cuz you're absorbing that through your skin all day, every day. And your, your soap, your shampoo, your deodorant's a big one. Again, you're wearing that all day, every day, absorbing it. So all these chemicals, I call it like a soup of endocrine disruption that we're, that we're bathed in every day. So it's crushing our testosterone, it's crushing thyroid, causing autoimmune disease, causing all kinds of You know, infertility, precocious puberty, ADD, autoimmune disease, cancers. So I think hormones are a big problem. And then chronic inflammation, which is different from acute inflammation, like when you, you know, you have like a heart attack or when you have a motor vehicle accident.

Right, right.

But chronic inflammation typically coming from the gut. So one of the things that I've learned through my functional medicine training is that really everything starts and ends in the gut. And we don't realize that, but the microbiome, like they—

It's just unreal.

It's incredible. It drives our neurotransmitters, Our, our, the signals in our brain. It drives our hormones, our immune system, our metabolism. A lot of times people can't burn fat, build muscle because of their gut. And so it's these kind of things I think are a big problem that no one looks at. And, and what drives that is nutrition, it's stress, it's poor sleep, it's alcohol.

It's— I was gonna say, how bad is alcohol?

All that is horrible. That's horrible. I'd say it's worse.

It's, I think it's worse than, mm-hmm, you're better. If I had to pick one, I'd say smoke weed. Yeah. And it's close.

It's close.

It's close. It's not, it's not that big of a separation.

Yeah. I, I hardly drink at all anymore. If I do, it'll be a glass maybe every other month with my wife. Otherwise we don't miss it. And every time I do, you feel like crap.

I know.

And when you do drink alcohol, if you're tracking, if you're measuring your sleep, specifically deep sleep and REM, you'll see it plummet when you drink alcohol.

Oh, it's when I was wearing the Oura Ring and I've done the Whoop, the Oura.

Yeah.

When I was wearing the ring and I would drink and I would track my numbers, I'm like, oh, this can't be.

Yeah, it'll crush it.

It just was awful.

Damn.

It is the worst thing I think you can do.

Yeah. And, and it becomes, I think it's just a habit, just a socially acceptable habit that you kind of just, it, it becomes part of your life when it doesn't need to be. Yeah.

Okay. So you're, I make you HHS secretary.

Okay.

What do you do? What are some of the things that you do in order to fix the health in America?

Oh my God. I think it starts with kids. I think, I see my own kids, my kids are, are 10 and almost 12, and I see the food they eat, the shitty quality foods that they're eating that have a lot more chemicals than when you and I were kids.

Unreal.

Yeah, it really is. So I think a lot of it is that, a lot of it is the food that our kids are eating and adults as well. But I think it starts, we got to hit the kids first. I think for kids, device use is really a problem. Like with my kids, like screen time and YouTube and just being online, social media in kids and teenagers, I think it's causing mental health issues. keeping them from being outside. Like when we were kids, you just go ride your bike. You're just gone all day. You're just out playing. You're running around playing basketball and football and biking and you're just active. Now, now it's a very different picture.

Yeah.

So I think it starts with kids. I'm passionate about that because my own kids, right? I think that focusing on the food we're putting in our body, focusing on activity, you know, it's the fundamentals. People want to look for like—

How much, how much do you— I mean, and I know it's really hard, right? I know it's really hard with kids because we tried and it was just difficult.

Yeah.

But how strict are you about processed foods and organ— having organic food in the house?

Like, yeah.

Or do you just kind of throw your hands up and say, fine, have the— Yeah, macaroni and cheese.

We used to do that. Now we're very intentional about it. And, and I'm, I'm really insistent upon going, and my wife is as well. We're, yeah, we're into it. But we saw like my, my son, um, had put on a little bit of weight and, and he was trying to be healthy. But until we got all the crap outta the house, he couldn't, cuz it's everywhere.

Right.

And, and for a lot of people, it's, it's a matter of you just need to make it not available because willpower doesn't win. You can't undo it with just willpower alone. You have to create systems and process and be intentional. And so what we do is, is we have no choice but to have healthy foods around. And every now and then when grandma will show up with a bunch of crap, I'm gonna get that crap outta here. Like, it just can't be here.

Right.

You can't just have one when there's a box of a dozen donuts. They're not gonna just have one. They're gonna—

No, no, donuts are pretty good. I ducked to skin.

But, but I think it starts with the kids and it starts with things like that where you, you, you make only good healthy foods available for them. Yes, you're gonna have treats every now and then. Yes. You know, my daughter's birthday was yesterday, so yes, we had a birthday cake. Like, you're allowed to live, right? But there needs to be very strong moderation of that. And, and it just takes being intentional about it. And it's freaking hard though, 'cause it's everywhere.

I've been asking a lot of doctors this. What are your thoughts about what Kennedy is trying to do?

I personally love it. But I feel like he— his heart's in the right place. He's staying away from some topics that are a little sticky until we get more information, kind of, you know, the whole vaccine stuff. And I, you know, I know it's not—

But I mean, the data on Thermacell is pretty—

It is.

I'm not, I'm not anti-vaccine, I'm anti-Thermacell.

Yeah.

I think there's a very specific—

Yeah.

I mean, when you look at the real studies that they've done about how that shit goes right to the brain and it stays in the brain in the euthanized monkeys, Yeah.

And, and, and what's interesting is that the studies have not looked at the 70 all at one time that they're getting right now. They've looked at them individually, and even those studies weren't very well done. So I just think what he's trying to do, and, and, and I don't think he's anti-vax, I think he's, let's look at research, let's actually study it and evaluate it to understand, to understand it better.

We clearly have a problem.

We have a problem. We do.

Because it doesn't exist anywhere else.

No, exactly.

Right.

So I think that's a big focus, but I think it comes down to, you know, we have so much chronic disease in this country and it comes down to our food, it comes down to sedentary lifestyle, it comes down to the toxins in our environment that—

How bad do you think glycogen is that we, when we spray it on the wheat, the—

Oh, it's terrible. So it's glyphosate and it's atrazine.

I'm sorry, glyphosate. I'm sorry.

Thank you for correcting me. Yeah, sorry. So glyphosate and atrazine is one that people don't talk about a lot is atrazine, especially in like corn especially. These chemicals, they are crushing testosterone, they're crushing our thyroid, they're causing obesity, they're causing brain developmental issues in kids, they're causing precocious puberty and infertility, and it goes on and on. These 2 chemicals that are sprayed in our crops and there's no oversight of them. Other countries, you can't— they're banned, you can't use them. And here, some in this country, for some reason they're okay.

We went to France last summer and I ate bread every day. I mean, felt great.

No issues. Totally different. Yeah, totally different. Totally. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put— lost weight while I was in France.

Yeah, I believe it.

It's like, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. I just, it's fascinating to me. We were just having this conversation with the, you know, everybody talks about America's the best country. Okay. We're not the best country in health. We're not the best country. Not by far. Not by far. And I mean, look at how we abuse our doctors. We treat 'em like absolute dog shit. I mean, we run 'em through a system that's completely abusive and then we put into a system that they're completely marginalized. Orthopedic surgeons in by 2030, we'll be getting paid less to do a surgery than somebody who's working in a fast food counter. I mean, how is that possible?

Right? Yep.

And all I can think of is if you want to say you're the best, you have to have the balls. You have to have the clear vision to say, this isn't working.

Right.

Do you, do you think most Americans should be on hormone replacement therapy?

I think most Americans need to be.

Okay, what's the difference?

So you look at men, it is rare to find a man who has testosterone levels where they need to be.

And what number do you want to see them?

Free T at 20.

Free T at 20.

Or if you're using Quest, is 200. Okay, so same, same, uh, unit but different scale is based on the way they test it. But 20 or 200, and you look at the, the lab slip, and for example, LabCorp, it'll say like 6.4 To 18 is this ridiculous range.

It's just totally made up.

So yeah, it's insane.

It's stupid.

And so guys will have a free T of 6.6 and they're told they're normal by their doctor and they're, and, and they're not even close to normal. They're, they're less than a third of where they need to be. And men with low testosterone, without question, studies have shown this, have increased risk of heart disease. So about a 30% increased risk of major adverse cardiac event and early mortality Like the studies are there. The literature is published studies showing that men who have low testosterone simply die younger without question. And the FDA back in 2013 put out a black box warning. Oh my God, testosterone causes heart attacks. You shouldn't people shouldn't be on it. It's a controlled substance for this and that. February 28th, 2025, they release a statement based on the Traverse trial. Oh, never mind. We realized we were wrong. That actually the studies show that it's actually safe. It doesn't cause heart disease. So my bad. It's actually okay.

Pay no attention.

Never mind. Never move on. Nothing.

You imagine if you made that mistake with a client, with a patient for 12 years?

For 12 years?

How would be? How would that malpractice lawsuit look?

Seriously, it's bullshit. And so bullshit. And so men are suffering with with obesity. They're suffering with poor muscle mass, increased visceral fat, cognitive decline. Heart disease.

They can't, and they can't have sex.

Can't have sex, sexual dysfunction, loss of just quality of life and overall sense of vitality and wellbeing and confidence and mood issues. All of this stuff because of that one hormone. We haven't even touched on the other 40 hormones. But so that's why men especially need testosterone replacement therapy when their levels, not if, but when their levels are low. And it's most of the time people say, well, what about the natural stuff? How about, you know, strength training? I've, I've heard that you can naturally boost testosterone by doing, you know, strength training and improve my sleep and reduce stress. And improve my micronutrient intake and eat healthy fats and all this kind of stuff. And I still am a huge proponent of all that stuff. You need all that stuff for a lot of reasons.

Right.

But if you were to do all that stuff religiously for 6 months, let's say— let's say you were compliant, which you're not. No one is. No one is. No one.

I'm about 75% compliant with all the pills I'm supposed to take.

Yeah. Most people will do half of what you tell them to do at the most.

Yeah.

But let's say you did all that for 6 months, that guy who has a free T of 6.6, it may be 9 now.

Yes. Yeah, we're still not even anywhere near—

Yeah, so, so yes, it, it can help, but you have to understand the scale of how much is going to help you. And it's not enough to move the needle, it's not enough to get you where you need to be to have an appreciable improvement, a reduction in mortality, reduction in heart disease, and improvement in quality of life. And so that's why I say the quickest way to get you there is TRT, replacement therapy. And when you do that, you feel— you feel amazing. And now you're more motivated to do the lifestyle stuff that you weren't going to do before because you were depressed and tired and stressed out and felt like crap.

Getting rid of alcohol improved my sleep, improved my sleep, improved my overall health, less depression, less mood swings. Same thing. Well, being— I've been on testosterone 10 years. It's been a game changer.

And there's no real downside. No, there's no real downside.

What about— what are your peptides? Like, people are like, oh, you know, you can't do it because it's off-label and all of that. Like, walk me through, because I'm on them and they're fucking amazing.

Peptides are Awesome. So with, with an asterisk, I'll get to the asterisk.

So not all of 'em.

Peptides are amazing because—

'Cause there's like how many, what, 400, 500, 700?

Oh my God. There, there's new peptides coming out every day. Yeah. But, but they are in general, most of them are research chemicals that they've not been really fully studied. There are, there are several hundred that have a lot of established published research literature studies showing safety and efficacy. So peptides like, you know, BPC for reducing inflammation, gut inflammation, joint inflammation, tons of studies on published on BPC, thymosin alpha for immune modulation and immune function. Thymosin beta for musculoskeletal repair. Got epitalon, which you can't get anymore, that actually showed that actually extends lifespan in animal studies. It reduced cancer in animal studies and is amazing for rejuvenation. I love epitalon. I can go on. A lot of peptides that are out there that have a lot of studies. Other peptides have come out and there's not much out there and it's a research chemical, take it at your own risk kind of thing.

Right, right.

And so I've come up with this analogy that I think drives home my perspective on peptides. You're baking a cake, and this cake has very critical ingredients to this cake. It's— we talked about gut health, we talked about blood sugar control, we talked about hormones, we talked about sleep, regulating stress, fitness level, toxins in our environment, micronutrient levels. You see where I'm going? All these are the key ingredients of this cake, right? If you forget the baking soda in your cake, what happens? It doesn't rise.

It's not gonna rise.

It's worthless. You don't have the same. So that one, any one ingredient can screw up your cake.

Right.

But those are the key fundamental ingredients of this amazing cake that you're trying to bake. You've baked this cake. What do you put on your cake when you're done baking it?

Frosting.

Put frosting. Exactly. It's the sexy, it's the fun stuff. That's how I look at peptides and hyperbarics and cold plunge and sauna and red light and PEMF and hyperbarics and all this fun biohack stuff. These are great Great sexy ways of augmenting everything else you're doing.

But none of those are a silver bullet.

They're not the silver bullet. And, you know, just like you don't— or you shouldn't go to the grocery store and get a can of frosting and just eat the frosting out of the can, because— well, you could, but no one should do that.

But, uh, read the label first.

Not the same thing. Yeah, read the label. Yeah, but the point is, is, is it's meant to be the sexy frosting on top. And so people come to me, well, no, I tried that peptide, doesn't work. Well, Did you bake your cake first? Did you focus on all the key ingredients first? Did you clean up your gut? Did you fix your blood sugar control? Are you sleeping? Are you eating the right foods? Are your hormones balanced? Then you can look at, did that peptide work or not? And that's where most people miss the mark. And so I love peptides, but the sequence, the timing, the nuance matters. Yeah. And put the cart before the horse, you're not gonna get the same results kind of thing.

I think they're some of the coolest stuff that support, like you're saying.

Yeah.

They support the core. Sure. What you're trying to do.

Yeah.

I mean, I love, BPC-157 and thymosin alpha and testomorlin.

Yeah, they're great.

Sure. I mean, they're freaking amazing.

Yeah. I mean, that cake's not nearly as good without the frosting, so I still love it, but, but just the, the nuance matters. Yeah.

Yeah. I get, I get concerned when people are saying, oh, you shouldn't do peptides at all.

Yep.

I mean, I think that there is— I think there's a world of medicine, pharm— I won't call them pharmaceuticals, I think there's a world of, of things that we can use that are poo-pooed by the conservative industry, the weaponized medical establishment.

Yes.

If we want to call it that, because it makes people less reliant on their drugs.

Sure.

You know? Sure.

I mean, yeah, I, I, I think peptides are, um, are attacked from 2 groups. One is, like you just said, is FDA, is FTC, is any 3-digit agency. That does not have our best interest at heart, number one. The other group that attacks it are those who are so fixed on evidence-based medicine has to be a randomized placebo-controlled trial.

Has to be a specific way.

Yeah. And yes, that is the most robust form of literature, of published studies, of research is a randomized placebo-controlled trial. No question. That is ideal. However, peptides don't have the funding. They don't have the massive big pharma dollars of R&D behind them where you can run those 10-year—

Or funding, I mean bribery. I'm sorry, funding, bribery. Sorry. Exactly, exactly.

Did I say that?

Right.

And so, there's this concept of N-of-1 medicine. N-of-1 or N equals 1 means treating everybody unique and different and trying different things, experimenting, taking these random research chemicals and see what works, right? Like a petri dish. Like you're a guinea pig. Yep. And then there's the evidence-based world of traditional medicine that a lot of doctors are so stuck in. They're so— they have blinders on that they can't see outside of that window, that if you stay in that lane, you'll never have any innovation.

Mm-hmm.

We were talking earlier about, you know, where we're going here. And so I think that there needs to be a blend of the two. Now, where is that line in the sand? It's a gray zone. Everyone has different levels of Of comfort levels of, of where you feel confident that you can still provide patient outcomes without risking their health. And I think that that comfort line is gonna be different for each provider.

Right.

But I think it comes down to sharing it with your patient, explaining the fact that, hey, these aren't FDA approved. However, these are the studies out there that show safety and efficacy. This is how it can help you. And if you'd like to try it, we can try it with, you know, full— it's informed consent. And most people, if you present it that way, hey, look, this is not a pharmaceutical that's gone through 10 years of trials, millions of patients, but these studies show it may help you with this. Most people say, yeah, F yeah, let's try it. And so I think that's the transparency that needs to happen. And I think you can still do that in a safe environment. Not over here where the research chemicals coming from Far East Asia that had never been studied.

Mm-hmm.

But not necessarily so rigid in your approach that you're not willing to accept any So I wanna take people in your mind a little bit. Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Because I think what they just witnessed is you clearly understand the science of this. You're clearly—

I think so.

Yeah.

Just a little bit.

Yeah. Okay. How do you translate this into a business? How did you like, so you've got all this, you have the ability to take all this beautiful science.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, you just reeled off a bunch of really brilliant shit. Thank you. But then you, you can apply that specifically into a business. Yeah. You're probably not even aware how you do it because it's just a natural gift. Yeah. Wouldn't you say? It's kind of a—

So yeah. And, and I think this goes, you know, my Kolbe, I'm, I'm, we're really big on, in our, in our company on, on everyone's Kolbe and DISC. Mm-hmm. And my Kolbe is I'm a low fact finder, high follow-through. So what I mean by that, to answer your question, is, is a fact finder is they wanna research and research and they're so deep in, in the weeds and science and, and clinical studies. And most doctors, right, 90% of doctors are high fact finders. I'm a high, I'm not, I'm actually a 3, 7, 5, 6 as, as my my, my Colby. I'm a high follow-through where I love to package, organize, create systems, bolded lists, structure to systematize. That's where mine goes with that. And so as new stuff comes in, I'm always thinking— you asked earlier about, you know, creating protocols— is how do I fit it into this package that I'm trying to scale? And, and my team is probably sick of hearing me say this, but I always say, imagine we had a million patients, not just one. How would we do this?

Yeah.

Or imagine without a license, I have 1,000 doctors, not just 10. How would I do that? And so, that's how I'm always coming at it in terms of, yes, I want to— every patient's protocol is different. We have a different exact blueprint for each client.

Right.

But it all—

You have a baseline, but there's things that you plug in.

It's all from the same menu.

Right.

That's right.

So, is there— is it safe to say that there is a foundation for just about everybody that just about everybody gets the same? Are— is it the same 80%? Is it the same 50%?

Great question. I think it's probably 50 to 70% is the same for everybody. Okay. But, but it's that 30%-ish that, that makes all the difference in the world for people. Yeah.

So then how are you systematizing that? Because this is where a lot of doctors, they love to play mad scientist.

Yeah.

You have like a 60% is the foundation. Yeah. So you're gonna be plugging in the 40%. Is every package different from a pricing standpoint or? Or what do you, how do you manage that?

Yeah, great. And, and that's where I, I screwed up for so long. And you, you fully turned me around and helped me with this where I, I kept tinkering. And you were, you, you, you were the king of the tinker. Yeah. You used that word.

You're a tinkerer. I use you all the time.

And I kept tinkering. I kept, and I realized I had to quit freaking tinkering because it was killing my team because they couldn't keep up. And when every patient is different, you can't scale that. You can't grow that.

Right.

You're constantly having to reinvent the wheel with each patient. And so now what I've done is I, I've created a, our, my Peak Launch program is these are the exact tests that are included. in the beginning. This is the blood work, this is the microbiome, this is the cortisol and the food sensitivity. This is all we do in the beginning. If you're in person, you get this, this, and this. If you're not in person, you get this and this.

Mm-hmm.

When we, we have launch day, which is our 1-day badass executive exam, these are exactly what's included. No more, no less.

Mm-hmm.

At the 3 and 6 month and 3 and 6 month mark of the, of the program, these are the exact tests that we do at those points. This is when you review the genetics. This is when you do that. So that's very structured. Now you have a client. We have to add something on. That's okay. We have an add-on à la carte menu of things. If we need to, we can add those on, but that's not an endless list. That's a very clear list of these are the things that we can add on. Now, my team says, hey doc, we really wanna add on this p-Tau, this new cognitive blood test.

Right.

Okay, let's look at how that would look in this whole big picture. How do we, how do we look at it from a clinical perspective? Like in terms of integrating into the, into the program logistically, when is it ordered? How do we do it? it process-wise and financially? How does it work for the business as well? We can't be just giving away blood, you know, how, so, so it, I'm looking at it from all those angles of how do I improve the client experience, the outcome, provide, still provide cutting-edge precision medicine, but always in the sense of how do I scale this consistently?

So are you, does everybody come in and they do like a blood panel and then you offer the program, or is it you just offer the program?

So 2 ways of, of coming into our ecosystem now. One is a testing bundle called Launch Diagnostics is those 4 things.

Okay.

Always those 4. If, if you wanna work with us, this is, this is how we start. It's called Launch Diagnostics. It's blood testing, microbiome, cortisol, food sensitivity tests. And, and I, I chose those specifically because they address the, the key issues that I find in most people. Okay. Now if you wanna join the program, you've now done the initial testing to start the program. We add on genetics and VO2 max and body comp, some other stuff now. And now they're off on the program. They meet with, they meet with the med— they meet with concierge first.

Right.

They meet with the medical provider, the coach, and they're off and running. If they wanna join the program from the beginning, they start with those same tests.

Everybody starts with the same, start the same 4 tests.

So now my team knows it's the same process every single time. It's the same recipe.

What would you say to a doctor saying you're, you're not doing the patient justice? You should be modeling the test specifically to their particular issue. Like you should be having specific tests.

Yeah.

You're going much more deep.

We, we do, once we do that initial So that happens after they're in the program.

You get a baseline.

So yeah, so we'll do the initial baseline. Now this will come up where— great example of a guy who has elevated PSA. Okay, elevated PSA, prostate cancer screening test. And, and the, the big concern there is testosterone and whether they can be on it or not. Their doctor's gonna say, oh my God, you can't take testosterone, you have prostate cancer, which is— I would argue with that vehemently. But nonetheless, yeah, I know you would.

So when I—

we just need to re— we need to dive into that further. And so for that guy, we may repeat the PSA in a month. I may do a free and total PSA in a month.

Um, well, they could have had sex 36 hours ago, or—

That could affect it a little bit, but, but yeah, a little bit. There's nuance there. But in that situation, in one month, I wanna repeat it again. There may be a lab number that looks way off and I don't believe it. Something was wrong. We're gonna repeat that in a month.

Okay.

And so we'll have him redraw a blood test in a month. I'm not gonna charge him. It's $20 here. Not, doesn't matter. I'm not gonna nickel and dime the guy for that kind of stuff. If we wanna retest anywhere along the way, we've baked in the price. And so we can have that flexibility of repeat that PSA. Right now, if I need to order an MRI for that guy, prostate MRI, to look at the prostate better now, or order other tests, those are just add-on testing. We can order it for him, get it scheduled for him though. So it's concierge level, walk into the imaging center and get my MRI done. But, but we still price that in, you know, or, you know, this is, if you want to, we can buy it for you cash, or you can use your insurance for that if you can.

And you're taking zero insurance.

We take no insurance ourselves. Yeah. But if someone needs an imaging test like that, we can, we can get that done for them. We can still order it for them in that context because now there's a diagnosis code, elevated PSA. Insurance can run it, but we are not taking insurance ourselves. That's for the imaging center to collect insurance. Right. Not us. Yeah.

Yeah.

And so that's an example of how based on what's happening with the client, we can customize anything that's happening, that additional testing that we need. Yeah.

So what are your outcomes like? What are your, these patients come through, what are you kind of seeing?

So, we track—

How many patients do you have? How many new patients do you sign up in a month?

We have about 450 clients in our— somewhere in our program. Either they're in the program or in our maintenance phase, so somewhere along the way there.

Wow.

And, we track numbers on every single one of them. One thing that I learned is so important, I think you helped me with this, is to really focus on case studies, on getting case studies. And, I use a service now to where when we work with a client and they're happy, they're getting results, We ask, hey, would you mind if you, if, if we, can you share this, your experience with others so people can learn from your success? And we get 'em on a, on a, with a service that will do a, a quick video interview with them. And now we have a case study. And so now I have their quantitative data. I have all their wearable data we've been tracking the whole time anyway. I have all their lab data we've been tracking, and now I have their qualitative subjective, this is how great I feel information in video. And that's how I can take that and leverage it to show other people the success.

Yeah. That's great. That's brilliant.

Yeah.

I mean, it really is. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's an incredibly well thought out system.

You, it's such a big part of the marketing because most people these days, it's the social proof. You have to show that you've had success. And so your question of what are the results? It's everything.

It's everything.

Yeah.

It's everything. What would you, what would you tell somebody who's going into med school today?

I would ask them why they're doing it. And this goes back to the, the, the—

I wanna heal. I wanna heal. I wanna, I wanna treat humankind. I wanna make people feel better. I wanna heal. Yeah. Okay.

So medicine now is very different than when I was first going into medical school and, and, and the, the bureaucracy, the, the insurance control, the, the, the hospital systems, the, the, the way it's all being corporate owned. This goes back to what we were talking earlier about passion and where your heart is and what you really want to do.

Right.

And, and for me, I don't think I'd do it again. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't, I probably wouldn't go through it. I love building systems in the business and I love helping people in a very different way. I'd rather now train 1,000 doctors how to do what I'm doing rather than me be the doctor anymore. That's me personally.

Yeah.

And so I wouldn't necessarily discourage someone from doing it because that may be their heart and soul and they, and they've always wanted to be a doctor. That's really truly who they, who they are. But I would just suggest they get really clear on why they're doing it and are they doing it for the right reasons?

Would you, I mean, would you encourage them to not go into the hospital system or would you? Because I don't think you can be a healer in the hospital system.

Yeah.

I don't think, I think doctors are obviously work with doctors, right? I don't think they're available. I don't think they have the ability to be themselves and be the healer that they want to be by being in the hospital system.

No, you're owned. You're totally, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a hamster wheel. It's a soul-sucking hamster wheel that, that you are, you're stuck in with no control.

Mm-hmm.

And you're stuck.

Yeah.

And, and I think a lot of doctors get to the point where they're fed up. They just don't know how to get out. And so they stay in, they have the golden handcuffs on them that keep them there. And they're not business people, so they don't even know how to even think about it. How do I even conceptualize getting out of this? And so they just stay and they're miserable and they hate their life. And, and so before you even get in into that. I think it's, it's that, that important. Yeah. To understand, like, what do you want to do? What are you going to do when you get into it? And if you have a clear goal in mind and that's your heart and soul, then okay. The, the money is not like what it was before.

And it's going to get worse.

It's going to get worse. The control is not what it was before. The prestige, the, the reputation, you know, doctors are now beaten as if we are the problem. We are the, the reason for our failing health system.

No one used to be prestigious to be a doctor.

Now, now we're like lambasted and criticized and ridiculed and told you're stupid.

I don't know what the hell you're doing.

We're the problem. We're the reason why healthcare costs are so high.

I love playing the game when I'm in the Uber. How much do you think an orthopedic surgeon gets paid for an ACL reconstruction surgery? Oh, I don't know, $7,500. I'm like, try $750.

Yeah, yeah. I would do robotic surgery for prostate cancer, save a man's life, remove his prostate, spent years learning how to how to perfect that skill, do the operation, take care of them for 90 days afterwards as part of the globally bundled package, and you would get about $1,000.

And that was—

That was it.

That was 8 years ago?

That was— yeah, exactly. Yeah, that was 7, 8 years ago. Yeah. When I, when I left it.

What do you think it is now? $500?

It's probably under $1,000, probably $800-ish. I have no idea. I'm guessing. But yeah, it drops every year.

Forget the fact that cost of living is going up and malpractice is going up.

Cost of living is going up. Everything's going up.

Everything's going up.

But they just cut reimbursement and it's the only, only job in the world that I know of where someone else tells you how much you deserve to make and can make, and you just have to accept it.

How about this? Yeah, you have more debt than a lawyer.

Yeah.

And a CPA combined.

There you go.

And more training, and you can't control your pricing or how you treat your customer. Yeah, it's fucking ridiculous to me.

Yep.

So that leads me to this. Tell everybody about what you're doing with Peak Health, because I think this is gonna be really— I won't even— I don't even know all the details, and I know it's gonna be fucking awesome.

Thank you.

So let's talk about Peak Health.

Yeah.

So let's talk about like your desire with this and what's your vision for this?

So Peak Launch is my, my program, my client-facing health optimization program. It's a 6-month program that, um, is, is an integrated model where we integrate precision medicine with, you know, I like to say the intersection between precision medicine, precision wisdom, precision medicine and functional wisdom.

I like that.

So bringing in the, the functional medicine coaching, the lifestyle component, the genetics, the functional testing, the wearable technology tracking data to know if what you're doing is actually working.

Mm-hmm.

Putting all of that together. So it's It's not just hormones, not just peptides, it's not just nutrition, fitness, it's all of it put together into a cohesive program. I've obsessively built a client-facing app, which I told you about earlier, to really improve the client experience. And so that's been my passion project that you helped me, honestly helped me perfect my program years working with you.

So I got a percentage, right?

You get a— of course, yeah, checks in the mail's coming.

So I know where that is. It's lost.

So, so Peak Launch has, has really become this very clear, cohesive, refined package product that I can now grow and scale. But what I'm really excited about is the license now. So I've created Peak Launch MD, which is specifically doctor-facing now.

Yep.

Is helping doctors who are either— they're still in traditional medicine and I'm stuck and I want to get out and I don't know what the hell I'm doing. How do I— how do I do what you're doing over there? I love what you're doing. So helping them get out, helping them learn from what I've done, first of all, but more importantly, getting them to where they can then run my program.

Got it.

So in their practice, and, and I like to talk about a bridge. So I'm not talking about jumping off a cliff like I did because I, I spent years perfecting my parachute so it was going to open when I jumped off that cliff.

Well, you spent like a good 5 years prior to it.

It was a long time.

It was like 4 to 5 years.

Yeah, just preparing, planning, procrastinating, and planning, preparing, procrastinating. That's perfect. You have your 3 Ps for your book. I got my 3 Ps. So, so I, I, I I left traditional medicine much later than I should. A lot of doctors wanna jump too soon and, and they're not ready yet. And so what I talk about is really building a bridge that in your existing practice, like I did, you can run this program. So you're a rheumatologist, you're a psychiatrist, you're an internist, you can run Peak Launch program and provide this service to your clients where you're, you're doing the medical part.

Mm-hmm.

So think of it like, you know, like silos where you're doing the medical component and I got everything else. I got the whole backend, I got the pharmacy, I got the concierge, I got the I have the app, I have the health coaching, the genetics. I have all of it put together in a cohesive plug-and-play business in a box that all they have to do is do that medical component that I can teach them very easily.

Beautiful.

And so, so that's where I'm really growing. And now functional medicine doctors who are already running a practice, but they're struggling, how do I grow? How do I scale? How do I create a program? I can't put all these pieces together like you did cuz I'm not a, right, an entrepreneur. Now they can do it and I got all the rest on the backend. And, and it's a, a, a financially very viable model for them as well where, where their profit They're profiting from the program, they're profiting from the supplement sales, and, um, it helps them really drive revenue without having to work much more.

So if somebody wants to talk to you about that, how do they get in touch with you?

So they can reach out to me. My email is doctracy@peaklaunch.com. Um, you go to my website, check out, uh, peaklaunch.com as well.

Okay.

And I'm sure you'll share my information on that. Yeah, we'll put it, we'll put it in the show notes. Yeah.

So, well, I just got the high sign. The guy's like, hey, we gotta roll. But Tracy, thanks for coming, man.

Of course, man.

I love hanging out with you and I love talking with you. Oh yeah, I, I always learn something new and I always get to learn. I discovered something new about you too.

I appreciate it. So you've taught me so much, I, I can't thank you enough for the, the wisdom that you imparted upon me as well.

Thanks, Tracy. Appreciate it. Can't wait to see what happens with your growth and licensing and us freeing a bunch of doctors.

So thank you.

All right, brother. All right, everyone, thank you for listening. You all have a great day. If this episode got you thinking differently, hit follow and share it with someone stuck in the system. Please leave a review. It helps us grow. Want more? Visit MavericksProfitSystem.com to schedule your free discovery call and explore how far your business can go.