Your Clinic Doesn't Need More Leads. It Needs to Stop Losing Them.
10 Jul 2026 · 97 min
Rebecca Duron explains why clinics lose more leads than they capture and how to fix it. Most businesses don't own their Google Business Profile URL or domain properly, and they dump keywords instead of dominating their local map radius. High-ticket offers with a structured sales script that gets commitment before price is what actually moves revenue.
Chapters
People will—
Talk about that overflow. People will travel for that. Yeah. So talk about how does that overflow happen? Like what causes that?
Really good marketing, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, in this day and age it could be having a really good Instagram channel.
Yeah.
Right. Because then sometimes—
Are you a big fan of that? Are you a big fan of Instagram channels?
I think content is cash, but it's also a pain in the ass.
You didn't build your clinic to feel like an employee in your own business. I'm Matthew Kologli, and on Out of the System hosted by Dr. Talks, we challenge the broken rules holding healthcare entrepreneurs back. Hear from clinic owners, rebels, and builders who are creating bold, profitable, patient-centered practices and doing it their way. So I'm here with Rebecca and we're gonna talk about marketing.
Yes.
It's, uh, for those doctors right now that wanna hit pause, don't.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's really fricking important. And, uh, Rebecca's very talented and very skilled. We're going through a series now where we're, uh, gonna be interviewing quite a few people from a marketing standpoint because it's a huge area. I think doctors understand marketing about as well as you and I understand resetting a compound fracture.
About right.
You know, we, yeah, we know it's important. We're not really sure how we'll go about going about it. But Rebecca, why don't you tell everybody who you are?
Okay.
What you do. And then we're just gonna have a really fun conversation today about what you've learned being a business owner.
Yeah. So, I'm a serial entrepreneur. My husband and I, as I just told you, got married when we were 19, started our first company when we were 20 years old. Didn't know what the hell we were doing.
And then you had twins, right?
And then we had twins at 22. Which means you really didn't know what the hell you were doing. We really didn't know what the hell we were doing. Talk about the school of experience and life lessons.
Remember, you signed up for this. You, you picked the video game. So there you go.
Not complaining about it. Did really great things, did really bad things, all, all in a, you know, same amount of time. And through that process, that's how I got into the marketing world because we went from owning a $3 million construction company that went up to $10 million, really fast, really crazy, still didn't know what we were doing to owning local brick and mortar businesses where like I couldn't cold call the phone book and we had to figure out how to get people through the door. And that's how I stepped into marketing when our kids were still young. They grew up in this world with us. In fact, 2 of our children work in our family businesses, so.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool.
How's that?
Fun. They love it. They don't wanna leave. And so I'm excited for that.
Wow.
Because they talk every day of who gets switch business. And so like, that'll be the competition.
You still have the construction business?
No, we— that folded when, uh, the 2008—
Yeah, I know all about that. Yeah, I was in real estate. I, I— we're just gonna gloss over that 3-year period.
We're gonna not talk about that today.
Yeah, that's— yeah.
Yeah, that was painful.
Yeah. Rehab is, uh, right. You know, thank God there's traumatic psychedelic. Thank God there's ibogaine and ayahuasca and mushrooms and molly. And if you haven't, I got a guy.
Right.
I got a guy. I got a guy that'll take you through it.
I need it.
Um, that trauma. That trauma's deep. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a pretty brutal run, huh? How old were you when you went through that?
Um, about 30.
Ah, yeah, I was 42, 40-ish.
And you know what, during that phase we were like, we can make it through. Yeah, you know, I often see so many times business owners are like, we're gonna survive. No, you're not.
Like, no, you're not.
Call it quits faster than when you're like totally down at the bottom of the hole because it's harder to climb out.
My, I'm here in Austin for a facilitator training on— actually, my partner Christine is going through this for psychedelics because we do a lot of— we have a lot of doctors that will go through this. And anyway, so she's getting trained and one of my clients is there, longtime clients. And he's, he's been on the podcast and his business is kind of struggling right now.
Mm-hmm.
And he's got 2 locations and he kind of took his eye off the ball. And I've known him for 5 years and his business has been kind of capped at $1.5 million at one location and like $850,000 at another.
Okay.
And I go, maybe it's time to surrender. And he's like, what do you mean? And I go, you're— I said, the thing that makes you great, because he had a, a group of businesses in COVID that collapsed and cost him $3 million and all of that.
Right.
That kind of thing. Right.
Yeah.
And I go, your greatest strength is always your greatest weakness. It's the yin and the yang of it. And I said, your greatest strength is your— you fucking figure shit out, right? Like you just, you find a way. I go, the problem is, is that your greatest weakness because you always find a way. And I said, I've known you for 5 years. The most your businesses have ever done combined is whatever, $2.7 million. Mm-hmm.
Right?
And now you're down to like 2.2.
Hmm.
And you're not making it. And you're not—
and what's the overhead?
Right?
Yeah.
And he's like, yeah, but it could work. I said, yeah, but you've been telling me that for 5 years. And I go, maybe it's not this model. Maybe it's time to surrender.
Yeah.
How does that resonate when you hear that and you look back on your, and you look back on the collapse?
Yeah. You know, like, you know, we, I think entrepreneurs have the spirit of like, we're not quitters.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like we're fighters. We're gonna have good days, we're gonna have bad days, and we're gonna make it through.
Mm-hmm.
But having had longer years and journeys and seen other people's businesses, there are moments in time where I'm just like, it's time to, to make a turn. Shut this down. Let's figure out, let's regroup. Because I just have seen so many business owners that stay in it 5, 10, 15 years, have drained all the savings, have drained all of everything. And sometimes they even like lose their family, lose their wives, their spouses, because they're like, we're not staying in this anymore. We're done. We are out.
Yes, that's me.
And they're at the end of the road looking back saying it took everything. But also, you know, that whole personal responsibility thing kind of is like, yeah, but you gave everything. You gave it and you gave it and gave it until you didn't have anything left to give. And this is where you wanted to end up.
But isn't that kind of the bargain we make as entrepreneurs?
Yeah, sometimes. But is there a smarter way? Is there a more efficient way?
It's called the post office. It's called working in a union, which I don't think you and I would do very well.
No, no, not in that sense. No, absolutely not. I think, I think if there's one thing that entrepreneurs could do better at, like just one thing across the board, it would be learning how to be more resourceful.
Explain that more. Dive into that for me.
So it's something that I learned pre-COVID, and thank God I did.
Isn't it amazing how life is broken into pre-COVID and post-COVID? Yes. Yeah.
Yes. And during COVID Yes.
There's 3 phases in life. There's pre-COVID, COVID, and post-COVID.
COVID is a whole other conversation that needs other drugs, right?
Lots of them.
Yeah. So for me, and it's what I often look like— look at when we're looking at people's businesses, because We'll have a law firm who's ready to spend $100,000 a month. Mm-hmm. Give me a case less than $10,000, you know, cost of acquisition and we're happy.
Right.
And then we have other people that are like, 5 grand is like, oh my God, you're asking for my first child.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like we have these 2 sides, but in the middle is all this stuff that they have that they don't use resourcefully. Okay. So one of the worst things that we see in most local businesses is their sales process sucks. Yeah.
No shit.
You know that, right?
Right. Oh, see it all the time.
All the time. Like they don't know how to, like they have zero scripts, zero process, zero offers, none of it. And then they'll like revert to like, but we need more leads. So they're spending—
Leads are never the problem. More leads is rarely the answer.
It's never the problem. Rarely the answer. Yeah. It's rarely the answer.
Rarely the answer. And so in fact, it actually will bankrupt your business faster. Yes.
And so like they're getting stuff through the door or through some type of funnel or lead gen or their phone is ringing. But then like, I just had a, a note from one of our team this morning that one of our lawyers had 9 calls and 7 of them were missed for the exact service that he wants more of.
Jesus.
Do you know how much those calls, those, that call?
Well, for lawyers in, in the personal injury space. Yeah. Yeah. It's like 5 to 10 grand. There's, because if you don't answer, they're going onto the next billboard or the next 100%.
They're ready for the next guy who says they'll do it for free until they get paid.
Isn't that a fascinating model?
Right.
That model is fascinating.
And we see this the same way in the doctor space. And in the doctor space, um, am I allowed to say doctor space?
Is that— Yeah, sure. Whatever you can say. Look, you can say whatever you want here.
Okay, cool. Okay, good.
Um, it's called— my name is— my company's name is Mavericks. So, yeah, I mean, it pretty much fills in the rest of the blanks.
Okay, good. Um, and it's more clinical. Right. And in the doctor space, we see that there's like 20 people that all have the title of director, but nobody knows how to fucking answer the phone.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's—
and I'm like, if we could just be more resourceful with what you're actually getting in, you could probably turn that into more sales. But that goes to so many things in their business.
Well, it, it goes to a deeper issue. I was thinking about this Yesterday, was it yesterday or the day before? I don't know. One of the days. They all blend together when you're up at the lake.
Yeah.
The, the thing that I was chewing on is, one, they don't need more leads. They need, they need better care of the leads. Okay. So if I look at this energetically, right, like if I want to take a Judeo-Christian approach to this, or if I want to take a Southern California woo-woo approach to this, which are both exactly the same. They just have different names for everything. But if I were to look at it from that standpoint, there is— I don't care what world religion you tie into, there is always a correlation to being a good steward of what is given to you in order for you to get more.
Exactly.
Okay. And, you know, it's kind of like the family that goes, you know, I don't know why we don't have any more money. Look, you know, we have this beautiful home and this beautiful car and this beautiful boat, but you're not being a great steward of the little bit of money. Right. I think in the Bible it says to, though little is given, much is expected.
Right.
Like whatever it said. And I think that there is a correlation to, I know that there's a correlation to that because if you're really diligent with the few leads that come in.
Yeah.
The universe, God, whatever is going to deliver more. More. Not a little bit at a time and a little bit at a time. So, and we'll talk more about like what you do here in just a minute.
Yeah.
Because I want people to understand this. But how do you— when you work with your clients and you talk to them, how do you talk to them and have this conversation with them about doing better with the few leads they have?
Well, before I give any of them leads, and not because I'm the god of leads or anything, but before we put into any of our process, my first question is, yeah, but what are you doing with the ones that you have? And oftentimes before we start any type of lead gen campaign, will take what they have and say, let's just see what low-hanging fruit and sales you already have that you haven't pulled out of that yet.
Okay. So gimme, how would you do that?
We call them Create More Cash campaigns. And the intention is, is because some of these businesses, like cash flow is like blood in your veins. If you don't have blood in your veins, you're gonna die, right? I mean, that's at least what I have learned. Yeah. That's true. Not a doctor, but pretty, right?
Pretty factual. It's pretty simple. As they say, all bleeding eventually stops.
My, my, like, get like, slice on my neck and blood comes out, I'm going to die. Right?
Right.
And so, so many businesses don't have cash flow at all.
Right.
And so their idea of like, oh my God, I need to spend money on marketing is like, do I have another credit card I can put it on? And so if we can take what they have and inject $100 grand, holy shit, now I've got some cash to do something with. And so oftentimes that is a first step of what we do before we go into a stressful situation of Well, if this doesn't work, which I never wanna be in, I often tell people this, I'm not your business savior. Like we're, yeah, we're not there.
Yeah.
That's not me. Right. But if we can put $100 grand into anybody's checking account, I mean, if someone said, hey Rebecca, here's an extra $100 grand, I'm gonna take it. Right.
And I'm gonna pay attention to what they tell me.
Right.
Yeah.
And so we build a trust factor before we even start the marketing and they're gonna listen a little bit better. And they're gonna be like, holy shit, how'd you do that? And I'm like, well, it was just a series of texts and emails.
Right.
That's— it was just giving some offers.
Yeah.
Literally. Literally.
We do the same thing with 'em, right? Yeah. We call it a 5130. Like we're just gonna start emailing your existing list.
Yeah. We're just gonna see what's out there, see who needs help that said they needed help. Yeah. And you didn't help them.
I did this with a non-medical business the other day, about 2 weeks ago, a friend of mine up in Topanga Canyon, and he has like a retreat center type of thing. Again, does psychedelic journeys kind of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And he's been struggling a little bit. And I go, here, send this email out to like your best list. And it was like a list of like 1,100 or 1,200 names. And he sends the email out. It's a sequence of 4.
Yeah.
And they got 175 qualified leads. Of those, 55 of them turned into phone call appointments. And I don't— I mean, he's converted a couple of them.
Oh my God, those numbers. Yeah.
Like he'll make whatever, 50 grand off it.
of it.
Right. It's gonna solve a short-term cash flow issue for him. And he's like, he sends me this, sends the email within 20 minutes. He had 17 leads.
Yeah.
And he texted me, he goes, you son of a bitch, Irish marketing mafia bastard, something to that effect. And he goes, I absolutely love you. I'm like, yeah. Okay, well this is the first step. We got some work to do. We gotta, we gotta do good work with these.
So, you know what's so silly too is they're like, oh my God, you're a marketing wizard, right? And then they'll never do it again.
Yeah.
Yeah. If something works, do it again.
Again. Do it again. Isn't that the number one rule?
Yeah.
Do it again. I don't know why we stopped doing that. It worked so well.
Right. I don't, I hear this all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right. So tell, let's, I wanna make sure everybody understands. So what, so you had this, you had the construction business.
Yeah.
You had the jiu-jitsu. Jiu-jitsu. You have jiu-jitsu studios.
Mm-hmm.
Schools. How many of those do you have?
We have 2 currently.
Okay.
Yeah.
And But you also do marketing. So tell everybody, like, let's talk about the kind of marketing that you do. Okay. And I wanna have this conversation cuz the world at the time that we're recording this, we're July 1st. This will go out. Oh wow.
It is July 1st.
I know. Happy 250 years. 250 years.
Yeah. Wow.
And this will go out like in 2 weeks or something like that. But I wanna give people context. The world is changing really so fast in marketing.
So fast.
It hasn't changed this fast. So I'm 58. I was on with Kat yesterday and we were talking about it. And I said, Kat, this is just like it was 20 to 25 years ago when the internet came on and everything started changing super fast. I was in direct response marketing. I was doing a lot of direct mail. And she said, we got about 500 days of this, like before it, because it's going to be changing so fast. There's a 500-day run. And then who's focused on this new way?
Yeah.
Over the next online, over the next 500 days is going to be the ones that are in a Catbird position.
Yeah.
So tell everybody what you do and then I wanna have this. I know you're seeing a lot of changes with AI. Whoa. It's crazy. The world has freaking changed overnight in our world.
Yes, it has. And I don't think local business owners really see it yet.
No.
Because they're just not focused on it.
Corporations don't even see it. Yeah. I mean, I saw a stat yesterday. HubSpot's traffic is down 82%.
Google is down 30%.
Yeah. Because it's because of all the changes, like massive corporations haven't made this adjustment.
Yeah. No.
So explain, so let's do this. Let's explain what's happened.
Okay.
And then let's explain what you do.
What's happened in the world?
With marketing. What do you see with the changes of AI and the way searches is done? Well, searches are done.
It's speed.
Mm-hmm.
Right? Like the speed factor is just insane. And you and I both use AI, right?
Like all the time.
100%. We're dumb not to.
Yeah.
But what a human could do compared to what now AI can do, and then you get a really smart human feeding the AI with really smart principles and tools and systems, and it's just nonstop. I mean, it's crazy. It's so good and yet it's so bad. So you really have to focus again, like how to be really, really, really resourceful with this at the moment, which we are finding ways. And so I see a lot of marketers, like they scream the word AI at like everybody, which I don't think is the right way about it.
Okay.
Because it's kind of like leads. Leads are not customers.
Right.
Leads don't make you money if you don't know what the fuck to do with them. AI is the same way. AI is not customers. It is not bottom line revenue. It is not even save money on payroll unless you know what the fuck to do with it.
Right, right.
So I think instead of positioning yourself as like, oh, we're the AI guy, it's like, how about positioning yourself with like how to save them more bottom line money?
Mm-hmm.
How to add more customers without spending $100K on marketing every month?
Mm-hmm.
Um, those types of solutions still are still going to be necessary in the market even with AI. Yeah. That's kind of where I feel it.
So, you know, I look at online marketing.
Mm-hmm.
In simplistic terms.
Mm-hmm.
Right. So you have paid traffic.
Mm-hmm.
Google pay-per-click, Facebook ads, Instagram ads. Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Those have been around. That's, that's the thing that made the internet.
Mm-hmm.
People don't realize that when, when Google came on and Google started doing a pay-per-click, meaning you got charged per click. And Yahoo at the time was doing it per impressions and everybody thought Google was nuts. This will never work. And look at today, Yahoo's nowhere. Nowhere. And Google is everywhere. Okay, so you had pay-per-click and you had SEO. And SEO was something that you could game. Everybody was like, oh, it doesn't cost me any money. I'm like, yeah, but you got to pay somebody to be in that position. And then the rules would change and it's a pain in the ass and Panda would come out and all of a sudden all the algorithms would get broken. You have to redo everything.
Yeah. Yep.
Then along came maps, which is where you thrive. I want to talk about that. Now, if you look— if you were to look at a search screen, if your results of a search from 2 years ago or 18 months ago, now you look at it in the past, it would be ads up at the top on the right-hand side. You know, are you above the fold from a search standpoint? Maybe there was like a little bit of a map down on the lower left-hand side.
Yeah.
You look at like— or maybe it was 2 years ago. Now then you look like 18 months ago, that Maps up on the upper left-hand side, the, the ads are kind of dwindling.
Yeah.
Now what you see is the first thing you see, the first 2/3 of the page is the AI search.
Yeah.
Results.
Mm-hmm.
And it's changing everybody's game really, really fast. Yeah.
You have to know how to be there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you focus in on the Maps area, correct? Well, it's your big area.
It is. Okay. Because currently it is still— well, it's one of our big areas, I should say. It's still 70% of where traffic is gonna land.
Okay.
Is, are you in the top 3 spaces for that keyword?
Okay. So explain this maps of, let's say somebody doesn't know what the heck this means.
Okay. So Google Maps is the biggest, you know, map search. That's how you get, it's how I got here to this. Yeah. To the studio. And if I'm on Google and I'm searching for, you know, a Thai food restaurant, And there's 1, 2, and 3, I'm either going to pick 1, 2, or 3. I'm not going to click more and then go to page 2 or 3 or 4 or however many tie spots there are. I'm going to make a buying decision on the top 3, and 70% of the search volume goes to that top 3 layer— number 1, number 2, and number 3.
Okay.
And so that's what we call organic traffic, right? Like, I didn't Click an ad. I'm looking organically at what's on the map of what Google is telling me is relevant to my search.
Right. Um, that's how we found the podcast studio.
Exactly.
Or how Neo, my assistant, found the podcast studio. I'm sure he searched podcast studio Austin and this was topped up.
This was one of the top ones.
Sure. One or two.
Congrats to this podcast studio on Maps.
I guarantee it.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so we want to be relevant. to Google as much as we want to be relevant to our potential customer. Mm-hmm. In fact, I might say that it's more important that we first be relevant to Google so that Google will show you to your potential customer.
Right? Yeah. Right. And, you know, as I explain to people, think about your own ways that you make searches.
Mm-hmm.
Right. And we'll talk about how you get ranked in the maps because is it— well, let me ask you this. Is it just Reviews? Isn't it just gonna go to reviews?
Reviews helps. No. Yeah, reviews can help.
Absolutely.
What are the factors? Reviews can help, but I'll tell you that with AI in the market, trust is like nonexistent. Well, yeah. And it's so necessary.
Yeah.
You know, because everyone, the first question once you go, like you opt in, we see this in our local business all the time, is people ask us like, is this AI? Is this a bot?
Mm-hmm.
And then our team is like, well, we use bots, but like it's a real person. And so like everybody is like, oh, this isn't real. Mm-hmm. Is this real? And so reviews are so insanely important. Um, but it's not all of the determining factors, especially with AI now. So Google, where, you know, a few months ago they weren't looking at AI websites, like they were like, no, that's not it.
Right.
And now they are. And have you seen how fast it is to build a website with AI? Yeah. It's insane.
It's insane. Like, yeah. Yeah. We're gonna, at our mastermind at the end of July, we're actually doing a whole—
You're gonna do that? Yeah.
We're gonna show people how to read. We, we are.
I should give you a section on how to include their services.
Okay.
Yeah, we'll talk about that later.
We'll get with Kat.
Yeah.
Because, okay, Izzy's gonna probably, okay, our copywriter's gonna, yeah, he's building sites like in a couple hours.
Right. And so now it's like, and they're, and they're right.
They're done the right way. Not when, we'll talk about that issue as well.
Right.
Because of what you've done with our clients.
So now it's like, well, is, is that relevant to Google? Is Google looking at that and finding it in their query? And their robots are saying, oh, that doctor is relevant to this search. And if it is, we're going to place them accordingly. We give them more love. We give them more attention. And as we've said, and I won't go into all of it now, the amount of websites and how Google Business Profiles are built, like pay attention to your Google Business Profile. We had an amazing doctor, actually one of your Mavericks doctor who's in, you know, we're working working with right now. And on their main category, they were listed as a med spa. And he was like, I'm not a med spa. And I said, well, I didn't think you were, but like, why is, why does it show as your main category? Right. He had no idea.
Yeah.
He had no idea.
Right. Because they generally, you know, the thing that happens is with doctors is they're conditioned to just be, don't focus on business, just be a doctor.
Mm-hmm.
Right. And so then they start with one foot in the bucket. And then they own a business. And then what they do is they've got this programming run in their head that they are not a good business person or business is beneath them or they shouldn't worry about it. So they hire someone. A lot of times it's a family friend or a family member that, oh yeah, you know, worked at a med spa or whatever and they are running it and they abdicate. They don't delegate, they abdicate their role.
Hmm.
So we have to come in and when we work with them, it's like, look, let me show you how to lead. You know, cuz they're never taught leadership. Very few people are.
Wow.
Very few people are taught leadership, let alone doctors.
Yeah.
Or nurse practitioners or whatever. So they usually abdicate that role and then that person hires somebody who goes, oh, this one looks fine. This is my cousin's uncle's brother's sister's nephew's cat. And they're like, you know, and so they wind up with people that have no fricking clue of what they are doing.
Right.
And I— the biggest complaint I hear is I've been through 5 agencies or 4 agencies or this didn't work or I've been screwed.
Yeah.
And it's really because of, in my view, they just— you have to learn the basics and the fundamentals.
Right. Because then you have no idea what you're looking at.
Right.
Yeah.
So, and this is what your company does is you get people ranked in their local area market. So they're going to show up.
Part of it.
Mostly want it. What else? And so just so everybody else knows, like what else? What are some of the other things you do?
Well, we do like broad scope marketing for these businesses. So marketing is an ecosystem, right? Like there's not just one tool in the toolbox that will build out everything that you need. Just like copywriting, right? You know, like there's copy on emails, there's copy on SMS, there's copy on newsletters, and they all kind of have a different job, but they're all working towards the same purpose. And so like, you know, what we do with Gridlock That is more organic reach. If we can get the people and vacuum those keywords to that location, we're doing good. We're getting the phone calls.
But this isn't SEO, this is Maps.
It's not SEO. So SEO is like backlinks. Remember all the YouTube tags?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh my God. If you talk to an SEO person, they're like, I hate my life.
Yeah.
It's insane the amount of this work that they have to go through do anything, and then Google will just come in and change the algorithm, and it's— they're like, oh shit, that's all undone.
Yeah.
What we do is we actually send signals or traffic to Google to pinpoint a location and say, this is relevant for this service, for this keyword that people are searching, whether it's stem cells, whether it's PRP, whether it's my dog has cancer. whatever it is, we're sending those signals to Google to say like, pick me. And as it's making that business more relevant, now we're pushing it from the top 20 to the top 10 to the top 5 to the top 3. And what's really cool is we have a few doctors that have, they were smart, they have a Google Business Profile for their own avatar, like their name.
Mm-hmm.
And then they also have a Google Business Profile For their business. Now check this out. We have a doctor right now who is in the process of being ranked number 2 and number 3, or 1 and 2 depending on the term. So that means that they're owning 2 spots of the 3 spots.
Got it.
And if you can do that, we've had a few doctors that have had this and we're like, oh, this is good.
So without giving— I know you don't want to give away your secret sauce because this is what you do. But how is that possible? How are you able to— because it sounds a little bit like voodoo marketing.
Voodoo. Yeah. Okay.
And I know doctors, they, they like to know how everything works, right?
Like, so how are you doing this?
Is it very— is it black hat? Is it white hat? Is it gray hat? Is it no hat? Like, is it— we can call it a little bit of all of those. I mean, what is it?
It is all legal. Okay. So we're not getting anybody in trouble. Maybe a little bit of gray hat. But like what would—
Light gray, not charcoal gray.
Yeah.
Like soft gray.
Right, soft gray.
Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, almost linen.
Okay, perfect. Yeah.
So we are making these connections for Google and the more connections there are, the more relevance you have. So what Google wants to do, as they are still the number one search engine in the world, is they want their customers to keep coming back.
Okay.
Right? Lifetime value.
Right.
They want it too. They wanna beat out ChatGPT still. They want Gemini to be their search engine.
Mm-hmm.
Where people are going. And so we are giving them a better option.
Okay.
We're giving Google a better option by using signals and connecting fibers, if you would, from Google to That business.
Okay. And that's done via the website.
It's done via the website.
And so one of the challenges you have is, is our clients have come to you is their websites are fucking horrible.
I love them. I love the people, but their websites are horrible.
They're awful, aren't they?
Yeah.
So what are some of the mistakes that you see them making?
So some of the top ones are they'll hire these companies who It's insane to me because they're going to pay thousands of thousands of thousands of dollars.
Well, they'll pay like $10,000, $15,000.
Yeah. Or more. Thinking in the business owner's mind, in the doctor's mind, they're like, man, this is an amazing investment. No, it's not. Like a $20,000 website is so unnecessary.
Because it changes. So the game changes so fast. Yeah.
Yeah. And, but here's the worst part other than just the $20,000 investment is that The builder of those sites, the company who builds those sites, often does it off of licensing. And I love licensing. In fact, I license a ton of tools. But what it does in these situations is it handicaps the business owners because we come in and say, hey, we need to add this to the website so that we can make a connection for Google. And they're like, full stop, no. And the business owner is like, but what do I do? I'm like, you don't own the fucking site, so you have no control.
So explain this. Most people don't realize that they don't own their site.
Yeah, they don't own their site.
They don't have full control.
They don't have— not having control is one of the worst things as a business owner.
And how that looks— explain how that looks like. How would somebody know if they've lost control of their site?
Well, they need to ask these things before they pay anybody $20,000. Like, if I pay you 20 grand to build this website, at the end of the day, if I don't want to pay you to host my site anymore, to make any changes, who walks away with the site? Because oftentimes it's not the business owner, right? And then they're like, yeah, go pay somebody else $20K. And maybe you can figure it out from there. Then they—they're careless. They do not care. Scorpion is in a massive lawsuit right now. I can drop that company name because I don't like them at all. I think Scorpion is what? They are a website company for local businesses.
Yeah, by the way, the name should have told you something, right? As a Scorpio, I would never mean any any company of mine. Scorpion.
They're shady on so many levels. Yeah, they are trying to. It's this whole lawsuit right now with the roofing company and they just won't give it up. And the roofing company is like, but like, you're holding my business hostage, basically is what's happening. So we have, we actually have a situation right now with one of your doctors that is like, oh, Rebecca, this is amazing. Let's do it as fast as we can. And we're like, yeah, let's go. Right. And we have everything in place because we can have this launched in 7 days if the pieces are there and we can connect and all of that jazz. And now we have been in talks with the website company For almost 2 months.
Really? Because they will not give up?
For something that takes 10 seconds.
Wow.
Yeah. And now the business owner is like, because now they're gonna be fearful of, well, we need to put a pause because what if I mess up all the $20,000 that I invested into this website? And what the reality is, is that website was built on shit. And now we cause some fear into that company that's like, oh, they are gonna know that this was built on shit. We could hide that from the business owner, but we can't hide it from an actual marketing company. And so they just are like, nope, you can't do it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's really fascinating to me how after 20 years of websites, it's amazing to me how that industry is still full of sharks, charlatans, and flim-flam artists.
It's really bad. It's really bad.
It's really bad. And they really, They really hold people hostage.
Yeah. Like when I saw, speaking specifically about this guy, when I saw his website the first time and he was like, we just invested a ton of money on this website. Okay, cool. One of the first things that I do, and this is for any business out there, scroll to the bottom and have you linked Google Maps to your website? It's one of the easiest signals to provide, right? Like doesn't cost us anything. And he's telling me all of this money that he's invested and he's like, yeah, this was like a big move for our business. I'm like, wow, that's amazing. Right? And I scroll to the bottom and there is no map. Tell me why.
It's kind of like website building 101.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, but you don't have a map on here and he doesn't know better.
Right? Yeah.
He's like, well, do I need that? Well, it's the easiest signal to provide to tell Google, hey, I'm here.
Right. Explain that signal. Why is that so important to people? Why is that so important to Google? Not to people. Yeah. Like how, how does Google, can you kind of give like a basic remedial course on search and the internet and why all these key components?
So we want everything to track, um, from your Google Business Profile to the map from your Google Business Profile. Right. So where it says like share, and then you can like, you know, like you did, For this podcast, you sent me the link and said, hey, go here, and I click it and then it sends me there. Well, that little share button has an embed code that you can put onto the website.
Okay.
Well, now we have a direct line of saying this GBP is connected to this traffic over here. Does that make sense?
Yep. Yep.
And so now, so there's a lot of those types of things that you can easily do in your businesses, kind of like, your H1s, your H2s, and that's getting a little techie, but on a website, like, what's your, you know, headline, right?
Right.
What's your headline? What's your subheadline? If your headline has a keyword or a service that you provide, now you're telling Google who you are, what you do, and where you do it. That's what Google wants to know all the time.
Right. And then when people search, Google uses that and says, these people do this, they're located here, and they, they've got this, all these things are connected. So that gives credibility. Is that—
It gives relevance.
Okay. Relevance.
More than credibility, gives relevance.
Okay.
So like sometimes businesses, and I did it too, when we first started one of our jiu-jitsu schools, we tried to come up with this like catchy name that had no clues to what we are, what we did and where we did it. And so when people want to come up with catchy names for their business, I'm like, full stop. You want to tell Google like, If you, even if you say like San Antonio orthopedic surgeon, mm-hmm, and that's the name of your business, beautiful. Right. It's not catchy, it's not sexy, but we're telling Google who you are and where you do it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, people put too much energy into stupid things like names and logos. Like, yeah, really your logo doesn't matter. Don't worry about it.
It literally doesn't matter.
Like, go, go spend $100 on Fiverr and get like, dude, ask ChatGPT. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As now you just do ChatGPT and like just create the logo. Like, right. It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter. No.
I, I, none of that. I remember one time we, I had a client come in for a day and he's like, okay, I wanna spend some time on our logo. And he like had fucking like 10 different versions. And I go, he goes, which one do you like? And I went, that one. And he goes, well, you didn't even look at 'em. I go, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
You wanna do, you wanna focus on things that make money? He goes, yeah, but like my buddy's a graphic designer and he says it like, it's the most important thing. I said, does he have his own company? Well, no. And I go, you don't pay attention to anybody who doesn't have to scramble to make payroll. Yeah, that's rule number 4.
Right. I like that rule.
Yeah. Do not—
Good one.
Do not pay anybody that wants to give you business advice if they haven't had to scramble to make payroll.
Right.
They're not allowed to give you business advice. So, so what's the fix for this? Like, do— let's go back to this client who just spent $20 grand on the site. Do they scrap it and start over? Like what? How do they go? And then how do I— how do they wind up picking somebody to make sure they don't get Fucked again.
Yeah, those are really great questions. Um, first find out if there's a license agreement or if you actually own it. Okay. Like say though, do I own this site or is there a license agreement? Okay. Um, license agreement means you're renting it. That's it. You're renting it.
You're gonna be paying a monthly fee called hosting.
You're gonna be paying a monthly fee. You're gonna pay a large sum upfront. They're gonna tell you, oh, we're gonna design blah, blah, blah. You're gonna pay this 10 grand fee and then you're gonna pay us $1,000, $2,000 every month to host it. And you're going to license it from us. Okay? Own your site. Own your fucking website as a business owner. Own your site. Right. Number two, know which email to get into your GBP, your Google Business Profile. I don't. I can't tell you the amount of GBPs we have recovered for businesses, and it's a pain in the ass. It can be done, but it's a pain in the ass. Own your GBP. Know that's Google. That's on Google.
Google My Business. Google My Business.
Google Business Profile. Same thing. Have that ownership email on there as your email, even if it's your personal email. I don't care where someone else can't kick you out.
I've really quick story. I admittedly didn't pay a whole lot of attention to this stuff. And I got a message about a year ago from one of the members of my team and she goes, we got a problem. Like someone just posted a really bad review on Mavericks. on your Google My Business. And I'm like, oh, okay. She goes, so do you have the access? And I go, hmm, maybe. I think so. Now I save everything and it took me about 20 minutes and I found it.
Okay.
Right?
Right.
And we got in there and she's like, look, we gotta post photos. Like, we just like, we gotta post photos. We gotta do all these things. We gotta get reviews in here. And it was somebody who left a 1-star review. For a company that wasn't ours. Oh. For another company named Mavericks. Uh, something, whatever. Right. But you can't get it removed, right?
Well, you can.
Can you now?
'Cause you can, it's not easy. Here's my first tip for getting Google bad. Like they violate the policies. Mm-hmm. Um, one, don't respond on it.
Yeah. That's rule number one.
Rule number one. And rule number 2 is as fast as you can, like notice it. And then go to, I think it's like business.google.support, something like that. And go to violating reviews and then tell them quickly. I actually had 3 reviews yesterday, which was like an amazing thing. I was like, holy shit, I got 3 reviewed in one day, like removed. They were, they were blatant. Like they were totally wrong. Right. Um, but I think Google's getting a little bit more aware of that kind of stuff.
Yeah. Because before you used to not, you had zero. Really, really hard. Yeah. You would get zero. Yeah, it was really— and then we just went and had our doctors go and give us a bunch of reviews. We had like 10. I'm like, can you go make this fight? Like, we just had a problem. Sure, absolutely.
And if you can't get it removed, like, put the truth on there because people will read the truth and sometimes that works in your favor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so own your site, own your— know your Google My Business. Yes. Okay. What are the other— what are the other things that they need to look for?
So you don't need to pay $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 for a website.
What do you think you should pay?
For one, so we will build out websites for what we do specifically for what we do, um, for a few grand. Mm-hmm. Which, because building websites is not like, oh, I build websites for people. No, we build what's necessary for this to work.
Yeah. It's an adjunct. It's a support thing to what you do.
Exactly. So like for instance, this client who's fucked at the moment, he's like, what do I do? Well, technically what we can do, which might be the next step, is we'll go in and we'll build a subdomain. So, you know, we have mybusiness.com and then a subdomain is like signup.mybusiness.com. And on that signup, we'll build what we need separate from the main site for Google to do the work that we need it to do.
Okay.
And so that's, that's a solution that we've actually come up with recently because we just see this all the damn time. And I don't want to go in there and put the labor of fixing bad websites. It's a pain in the ass.
Yeah. What about the people that like build their own using Wix?
Oh, don't do it. Don't, just don't do it. You're not a creator. You're not a website builder. Yes, they're gonna tell you to drop it and blah. Don't do it. Like it's the worst. Um, if you like, are AI sites relevant? Yeah, they, those can be built. Like we build kind of like the framework in WordPress and then we'll build all the HTML with, uh, AI. And so it's a much easier process than building a full site out on WordPress.
AI is fascinating. So I'm not a coder.
Yeah, me either.
And, uh, one of my doctors built a social media manager in the span of 30 minutes at our last mastermind. Wow. And we're testing it and using it. Wow. That's awesome. And it's about 85% good.
Wow.
Yeah. That's awesome. Like you ask Claude or Chat, I prefer Claude.
Mm-hmm.
Hey, build this for me.
Yeah.
And you don't even need to know the coding.
Nope.
And it'll build it out.
Cloud Cowork.
We have, yeah, Cloud Cowork is amazing. We have Izzy, our copywriter. We're not, I don't know when we're gonna launch it. Maybe we can launch it by the end of the month, but we will have some form of website, AI website building program that will be kind of in the range of a couple thousand dollars.
Yeah.
Right? Like, and it'll be done.
Yeah, especially if you're brand new.
And literally it'll be done in like 7 days.
Yeah. If you're trying to spend more than $5,000 for a website, it's probably unnecessary.
Absolutely.
The, the few times that I'll say, well, maybe that's worth it is like if you have like a huge back office that you have clients or patients logging in.
Yeah.
You know, but even like, you know, e-com Shopify, that's not, you know, like that's so simple. It's not these insane things and people make it way more complicated than it is. Don't spend your marketing dollars there.
I built my own app. For tracking my own health stuff and all the injections and the pills that I have to take. Yeah. I had Claude Cowork build it for me in the span of like 3 hours.
Exactly.
I mean, it's crazy what you can do right now. Would I sell it? No, it's good enough for me. Like it connects, I'm in the process of connecting all my wearables and all my data and my blood panels and all that stuff. Yeah. And uploading that and then having my InBody in it. But like I'm doing it while I'm watching, well, I don't watch TV, but I'm doing it while I'm like, You know, having dinner.
Right.
I mean, it's really fascinating.
Because websites don't need to be complicated.
No.
They need to tell people who you are, what you do, where you do it. And you need to take them in a simple step process. Hey, here's what we do. Here's your next step. Here's your next step. And have a really fucking good offer. And if you can do those things—
What do you mean by a fucking really good offer?
Well, give them a reason to opt in.
What are some of the best you've ever seen?
So the best I've ever seen is because what's the, do you know the one number one thing that people always ask when they call a local business?
How much does it cost?
How much does it cost? Yeah, exactly. That's what they wanna know. How much, how much am I gonna spend? They have, that's a totally like irrelevant question at that point because you have no idea if it's a Mercedes-Benz or a Honda.
Right. Yeah.
What the service is, if it fits you, like it is totally irrelevant, but that is the very first question that people ask. And so if you can add a button that says find your price here, it will get people to opt in.
Really? So how do you use that so that things don't get commoditized? Like in the medical space, I tell them under no circumstances—
We're not giving them the price after they opt in.
Okay, so what are you doing?
Well, we're taking them to the next step. Is there a survey? What's the qualifiers? You know, because I still can't— I can't give you a price until I know who you are.
And the question is what?
What's the question? I'm taking them down the journey they want to go.
Right. And the first question is what?
Is find your price? Yeah, whatever. Like whatever it is, something that's relevant to that. I wouldn't say find your price, but that's what I'm telling them is like, here's the price, pricing. And that pricing button now leads to the first step of figuring out, can we help you? I tell people this all the time. The commitment is the close. The offer is not the close. The commitment is the close. Are you actually committed to changing your life, to fixing your life, to fixing your knees, your back, whatever it might be? Because if you're not, the price is totally irrelevant, whether it's $1 or $1,010. Then 100 doesn't matter.
I love that. The commitment is a close. Yeah. Because all the steps we talk about this constantly, we have scripts, right? We have a big money script that if you— I've used it for 20 years. I've used it in probably, well, almost 30 industries. I've given to people that have zero sales experience. And if they ask the questions, they'll close. Yep. And I can't get my doctors. It's one of our biggest challenges. And my coach Dean will be like, well, you know, we're getting these leads and nobody's buying. So we think the leads suck. And Dean's first question is, are you using the big money script? Yeah. Are you using all 9 questions? Well, I don't like question number 4, so I don't use it.
I don't like asking people questions.
I'm like, so if you skip a step during surgery, is that a really good idea? Well, no, you'd never do that. And it's a— why the fuck are you doing it with your money? Right? Like, anyway, so, but we say it's all the 7— there's 7 hurdles for them to clear before they walk in your room. Every single hurdle. They either clear the hurdle and they get to go to the next phase. It's like a video game. Yeah. Or they don't and they get to go— they start back at the beginning. Yeah. And until you get into your mind that they have to clear those 7 hurdles before they meet with you, you will, you will always struggle. If you're trying to move, if you're trying to take it from lead to appointment and being in the room, they're never going to close. There's no— it's like dating. Yeah. You know?
Right, exactly.
I mean, I know you've been married for Yeah. 22 years, 23 years or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. 25. 25 years. Yeah. Yeah. I've been married for 27 and a half to 2 different women. Okay. Wow. So the length just added to it. Yeah. It's just blending it all together. Right. Blending it, blending it all together. So 25 in the first one. So yeah, I mean, it just, you know, you haven't been in the dating space, but like, right. You don't like walk into the bar and say, do you wanna have sex with me? Right. Sales is all about— you get a number, you get her to take up a coffee. You—
100%. I always tell people this, like the first step is the coffee date.
Yep.
And most of the time people are missing the coffee dates. They're going—
You gotta get the number to get to ask for the coffee date.
Right.
And the coffee date shouldn't be more than like 30 minutes.
Right.
Right.
Yeah. It's a conversion line. And if we skip a step in the conversion line, you're gonna fuck yourself. And then you're like, oh, that was a bad lead. No, motherfucker. You don't know how to sell. You don't know how to take people through a process.
You don't know how to nurture. You don't know how to woo. You don't know how to romance.
Exactly.
Marketing, sales, sales and marketing. dating are exactly the same. 100%. You know, Paris Lampropoulos, the copywriter, famous copywriter? No. He wrote a lot of stuff for Rodale Press, and he's— Paris is now 60-something, right? So he was part of the Gary Bencivenga space and all that. Yeah. Yeah. So Paris and I are friends, and I was in one of his masterminds, and he's been single now for like 7 years.
Okay.
And one of his favorite games to play is split test. His Tinder profile. I love it. He's split testing pictures. Oh my God.
Like it's all a numbers game.
It's he's like and we would get together with mastermind. I'm like, "All right, Paris, let's see the numbers on the Tinder." He goes, "Ah, this is great. Look at the headline I just created." I'm like, "You're." He's like, "You gotta explain." He's got these like he he's got this whole process. Oh wow! He's always got like I think it's you know he's not this isn't he's not like a stalker, but like he's always got like there's always like seven to ten of them in some various form and stage. I go, this is just like closing copywriting clients, isn't it? And he's like, absolutely. Yeah. He's like, you know, we're always split testing what's working and I'm creating, you know, Tinder content and all this.
He could probably sell that.
We did tell him that he could sell it. Like, I did have a friend of mine, this was way back. So in the Dan Kennedy days, I had a friend of mine and this is when Infusionsoft came out. Okay. Back when it was the only tool. Right. And we were all like, oh my God, look at this. It's all one piece in one place. Yeah. So there was a guy in my, Dan Kennedy mastermind. He was, he had a bug exterminator, like he was information marketer to like extermination companies.
Okay.
His name was Chet, I think. And really an odd dude, like Gucci glasses, like the big wraparound Gucci glasses and the gold chains and the black leather jumpsuit kind of thing, you know?
Yeah.
And he gave a 30-minute presentation on how he's using Infusionsoft for his dating and scoring leads, their lead scoring process. Okay. I'm like, we sat there and I'm sitting next to a couple of my friends and I'm like, is anybody wildly intrigued and incredibly disgusted at the same time?
And we're working for him.
You know, I'm sitting with like a group of married guys and we're all like, okay. And like, you know, there's a bunch of single guys in there. Zach Tucker was in there and he's like, can I license this? This would make my life so much easier. He's got automated emails and like text messages. Yes. It's just, I'm like, Chad, you're gonna, you're just the fact that I'm hearing this, I'm gonna burn in hell with you. Like, this is just, this is not good.
This is not it. But it's pretty cool.
But it's really cool. And I'm fascinated by it. You know, I think it, you know, I'm like, how evil does that make me? I'm like, oh God, let's see if I do get single. 'Cause the marriage wasn't good. The marriage wasn't good for a long time. And I'm like, damn, man, I wonder if I could, I should run this. This would be great. Oh my gosh. This is before Tinder, right? Right. Yeah. So this was like 2006, right? 2007 is all pre-recession. I'm like, oh my God.
Oh wow.
We're gonna, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die because of this. Yeah, it was really funny. Um, so, uh, all right. So, okay. Own your site. Sorry. Google My Business. Um, yeah. Know how to log in. Know how to log in. What else? What are some, what are some other keys that you see, like when it comes to getting a site?
Um, own the location URL.
So what I mean, what is that?
What I mean is like if you can, put your service, you know, I have a jiu-jitsu school.
Mm-hmm.
So owning sanantoniojiu-jitsu.com is necessary. And I'll tell you that oftentimes we go and buy URLs for companies and I am like, there's no way this is available. Available. $9.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, holy fuck, why doesn't this business own this URL? It's available out here. And so if you can own URLs that have the name of the business specific to the location, you're doing much better.
How important, how important is it to own your name?
Which, oh, like your personal name?
Yeah.
It's not bad if you're, if you're linked to the website.
Okay.
Yeah. For doctors, absolutely.
Yeah.
Also on your GBP, if you can get Google to approve business name, location area. So orthopedic—
Business name, location area.
Yes. So we call it keyword dumping. And if we can get Google to approve it, which most of the time we can, sometimes they'll be like denied and then we give them proof why and then they'll approve us.
Okay.
But if it's like orthopedic surgeon Scottsdale or even better, specific neighborhood in Scottsdale.
Okay.
So like right now, you know, we're in Austin, we're close to the domain. So if we were like orthopedic surgeon, the domain, that's even better. Okay.
Because now when I'm in the domain, like the region that you're in, if you're in Fountain Hills or whatever.
Exactly. So now that when I go to Google and I say, find me an orthopedic surgeon in the domain, they're like, oh, this match. And so we're always trying to make those matches. You know those key, those cards when you're a kid? Mm-hmm. And you like find all the matches? Yep. That's what we're doing for Google.
Used to love that game.
Yeah. Yeah. Easy, right?
Pattern recognition. One of my favorite things. You know, I— one of the conversations I have with clients all the time is they completely misunderstand their market.
Yeah.
And the size of their market.
Yeah.
How big of a radius around your clinic Do you need to, do you need to dominate?
Okay.
So most, unless we're in Austin. Yeah. So let's just, or if San Antonio's easier, right? We'll pick San Antonio.
Most of the time in a decent sized city, 5 miles.
Right now, are you talking like a San Antonio or are you talking an LA?
Oh gosh. Either, either. Okay.
Pretty comparable. 'Cause 5 miles in LA is like 40 minutes. I live there now and it's, traffic is fascinating.
Well, shoot. I mean, it's really not that much better in San Antonio these days.
Okay. Trust me.
30 minutes.
Okay. You fly. Okay. I've been trying to get you to come to LA. Okay.
I fly every night.
When you come to LA, when you come to LA.
Okay.
And my studio is, my podcast studio's on Sunset, right? In the hotel you stay in is on Sunset, right? Yeah. The, the boutique hotel where my private club is. It, it's, it is 13 miles from LAX.
Okay.
Just guess how long that takes.
45.
Hour 10.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. And that's like not even during rush hour.
Okay. So maybe less than LA then.
Yeah. So probably at least LA's pretty impressive for the traffic.
Okay.
Yeah. Which, you know, you learn not to complain about it because you chose to live in LA, so you're like, fuck it, I'm just gonna deal with it.
Why not live in San Diego?
Well, one, Christine's in the entertainment industry.
Okay.
Okay. And San Diego is a very different vibe than LA.
Yeah.
It's a vastly different vibe. Yeah. And San Diego's actually very transient because of military. Mm-hmm. So there's like a group of people that have been born and raised and live in San Diego. Okay. And then there's a group of people that move in and out.
The grifters.
And so they're— the people I've talked to that have moved to San Diego say it was actually a little bit challenging for them to kind of get connected. Oh. Unless you're like there for a couple years.
Like military crowd or— Yeah.
I love LA. It's very, and LA's not everybody's cup of tea.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, there's some shit you gotta deal with. Right. Literally like on the streets.
Yeah. Yikes.
But it's not that way everywhere. You know, people see what they see on TV and like, it's not, I mean, you know, there's, that's Skid Row.
Yeah.
Right. But there's some, there's some challenging things, but LA itself, where we live is very open, very accepting, very, cuz everybody's kind of moving there and they're getting their feet in. Like it's a very, it's a very warm and welcoming place. I've lived in a lot of places. It's, I love LA. I, I've been there living there since May 1st. So I've been there a couple of months. I've been going there for about 15 months and it's okay. It's wonderful.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah. So most people, there you go. There's my commercial for LA.
Most people are escaping LA and coming to Austin.
Austin. We call it— yeah. So I hear that a lot. They're like, California. Yeah. They're like, what? You, you gotta come to Austin. I'm like, yeah, it's 110 in the summer here. Yeah. It's really freaking hot. It's really freaking hot. And I lived in Charlotte for 23 years and I'm tired of being humid. And then I lived in the desert for a year and 110 dry is still hot.
It's still 110, right? That's right. Yeah. They tried to make a claim that it's not that bad.
They're liars. Yeah. It's, it, yeah, it's, it's hot. Now the hottest place I've lived is Louisiana. I spent 5 years in southern Louisiana. Yeah. Now that's That, that my towels never dried. Yeah. So yeah, it's, yeah, that's a different heat, but it's 85 every day in LA.
Yeah, that's true. You get the good weather.
I mean, okay, I'll survive.
Okay. There's a weather tax.
I'll pay, I'll pay more for that. Yeah. So anyway, it's true. Yeah. So 5 miles.
So 5 miles. Yeah. Most of the time, 5 miles. Really?
'Cause I tell 'em it's like 20. If you can dominate like 20 miles, 20-mile radius.
Well, it depends. It probably depends on the business, but if they can dominate 20, that's amazing. Right? You also have to find, like, in the situation of doctors, people are probably willing to travel a little bit further.
Yeah. Especially for the specialized doctor. Yeah.
For what they do. Yeah. You're gonna go to wherever your doctor is.
So they don't— I tell 'em, I'm like, you don't need to dominate. If you're in Austin, Texas, nobody gives a shit about you in Dallas or Wichita or—
Right. Right. LA doesn't matter.
No. Like, even with your—
you need to be the local hero, not the statewide hero or the national hero, just the local hero.
So Dr. Petropali is one of my top clients ever. Mm-hmm. Right. Partially 'cause he's worked with me for like 5 years. Okay. And he's in a small town in Skinny Atlas, New York. Okay. And he's done everything that I've told him to do. Like he's followed the path. Love that. Like first year, let's sta— let's get the cash business stabilized. Second year, let's start to exit you from it. Get out completely out of insurance. Year 3, let's get you on podcasts, write a book, all of that. So now he has a book, he's on podcasts, he does all of this.
Nice.
He still dominates his local market. Okay. Syracuse to Rochester, posts content all the time. But what's happening is there's a bleedover now. He has clients flying in from Alaska. Mm-hmm. Canada. Yeah. He's got one flying in from Texas to come get treated by him. Right. Like people will travel for that. Talk about that overflow. Yeah. So talk about how does that overflow happen? Like what causes that?
Really good marketing, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, in this day and age, it could be having a really good Instagram channel. Yeah. Right. Because then—
Are you a big fan of that? Are you a big fan of Instagram channels?
I think content is cash, but it's also a pain in the ass. Mm-hmm. Because if you go to an influencer, they live with this thing attached to them. Yeah. And I don't believe that's freedom.
So, but it gets you into Coachella for a discounted price. Exactly.
So that's a good thing, right? So there's, there's some good things and there's some sketchy negative things. You know, at our age, going to Coachella is an important thing. Right. Yeah. No, not so much. Maybe. Um, I live on a farm, you know, with pigs and an emu and things.
You have your own form of Coachella?
Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I'll tell you one really cool thing about what we do is because Google's going to give you a 5-mile space and we can break through that 5-mile radius that Google gives you and spread outward, um, for our clients. And that's really freaking cool.
Using the Gridlock.
Using Gridlock. Okay. Because that is important to doctors, um, especially like depending on the region that you're in, you know, like East Coast folks where you have like 3 states in a 10-mile radius, but you'll have people that will travel state lines.
Right.
And so if they can break out into a 15-mile radius, well, now they just dominate that whole entire area. Um, you know, what do they call it? Tri-coast. Um, so like that's super, super important when we can do that. The doctors really, really love that. it.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the thing that I, the, one of the things that I love about the medical space, specifically the functional and biologic space, and no offense to the med spa people, that's not one of the markets. 'Cause it's a—
That's a whole other conversation.
That's a whole other conversation. It's a whole other conversation. It's a total fricking commodity. It's a race to the bottom. Yeah. But in our space, what is beautiful about it is the margin of error on your leads. is big. And what I mean by that is that the lifetime value of a patient, okay, is so strong and the margins are so high that you don't have to be a great marketer like in the jiu-jitsu studios, right? Like, right. Whatever the lifetime value of a customer is in the jiu-jitsu studios. And maybe you go negative for the first 2 to 3 months before they, before you flip. Before you flip, right? When you're charging $10,000 for a procedure, $15,000 for an annual longevity program, and the average years that they stay with you is 7 years, right? In the longevity space, you can afford to spend $1,000. Yeah. Or $2,000. Yes. Right. This is one of the things that, and I wanna talk about this because your fees, I'm not gonna mention your fees. That's your decision to share. Mm-hmm. But your fees to the naked eye are not cheap.
No. Yeah.
They're not expensive.
Right.
But their return on the investment.
Massive.
Massive.
Right.
Okay. So why is that? Talk a little bit about, 'cause you don't let, like once an area's gone, you, that's—
You're in.
You're in.
Right.
So explain this.
Yeah. So with Gridlock, once we get someone to the top of that map pack, 1 and 2, 2 and 3, whatever it might be.
So they come, they work with you, you do an analysis. Mm-hmm. You figure out what it's gonna take for them to be ranked 1 or 2 in the map pack for a variety of keywords. Correct. Okay. Is there a limit on the keywords?
Well, here's the cool thing is usually it's about 5 keywords that we work specifically with, but there are like offshoots of keyword phrases to those keywords. Mm-hmm. Because of matching terms. Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? Yep. Yep. So the list is longer, right?
Right. But those 5 actually generate, are the control, 85% of the market.
Right. Okay. And they're, they're the, the biggest volume for the space that we need it to be.
Okay. So, all right, so I'm sorry, I got you off track a little bit.
Yeah. Um, okay. What were we, what'd you answer? Question?
So we were talking about, so you get 'em 1 or 2 in the map pack.
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
So now you, we call it gridlock because once you're in, you're in. We don't give anybody else this space. You own it.
Okay.
Which we love. We love owning these things as business owners.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't own Google, but to be able to control a space of it for a business owner and that business owner own that relevance for those services. is massive. Mm-hmm. So like, that's huge. But we, I'm trying, I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought.
That's okay. So they own the area. How big is the area? So are they owning like all of Austin or they own like a wedge of Austin?
Good question. So we'll give them like an immediate 5 miles, but if we can go out 10 to 15, we will. Okay. Yeah. All right. 100%. Okay. So like kind of the space that you want, especially for doctors.
In our space, it's probably 15 to 20. Yeah.
Oh, we were talking about the lifetime value. That's what it was. Yep. So here's the thing. The reason why I love working with doctors or anybody, and this is with all local businesses, is like, have a high ticket offer. Mm-hmm. Can we just tell every business in all of the world?
All of 'em need a high— you need 3 offers.
Have a high ticket offer.
You need a good, better, best.
You are going to make your life easier. It may not be the first step. It may be, right? Your a high-ticket offer to one business might be a low-ticket offer to another, right? Your doctors, their entry might be a five K to ten K offer, and their next step might be a thirty K offer. Where in my jiu-jitsu school, our first step offer is a five hundred dollar offer, and then we're going to take them to a ten K package, right? So it it varies, but have a high-ticket offer. Well, with these doctors, if we get them one win. It's gonna pay for the service. Now, am I like, oh, now you're, now you're a billionaire? No. But as you said, where are you taking that patient next? Because if you take care of them, guess what? They're never gonna go away.
In the regen space, it's highly referable. Yeah. Unbelievably referable.
Right.
Family members, friends, all of that. Okay.
Like 100%.
Case in point, Christine's parents, Her mom went to go see Don Buford, who's up in Dallas, one of the OGs. And then her father went to go see, and they live in North Carolina, right? They're referring their friends to fly to Dallas to go see Don.
Yeah, they will.
I mean, it's, it's, it's, it blows my mind.
It's 'cause of the specialty and the service. Mm-hmm. It's kind of like, um, I see women all the time on Instagram that will, there's some amazing doctor in Dallas that they are flying there to get boob jobs for. And I was like, he's the guy.
Oh yeah, I've heard of this guy. Yes, I have.
He's the guy. And they fly—
I have a friend of mine.
They come in from everywhere to see this boob doc.
I have a friend of mine, he's a business friend of mine. We were in a mastermind together and he's in San Francisco and you go to his website and it's this beautiful woman, like black and white photo. Yeah. And a phone number.
That's it.
For— he's in San Francisco. He does mommy makeovers, tummy tucks, and boob jobs. Mm-hmm. And whatever that costs, whatever. Yeah. Let's say the going rate is $25,000.
Okay.
He charges $90,000 for the exact same thing. Yeah. Okay. And I go, Larry, I'm curious, how, how did you arrive to that? And he goes, people will pay a lot of money for something if they think it's worth it.
Yes.
And he goes, now I'm really good. My, he goes, my boob jobs and tummy tucks are fantastic. Right. And I'm like, okay, I'll take your word for it. And he goes, but I got a 6-month waiting list. Oh, wow. He charges 3x more than his competitors. Yeah. And he makes it very difficult. He goes, I operate, I, he said it's mostly referral only. Now that takes a lot of balls to do that.
A lot. Right. I love it.
But isn't it great? It's so awesome. And I know I have probably 5 business acquaintances. I won't call 'em friends. Yeah. They're just people that I know. Yeah. That have business models like that. Yeah.
Yeah.
If you wanna work, it's referral only.
Charge more.
Charge more and it's referral only. Waiting list out the door.
Yeah. So 100%.
So, okay.
That's, that's also one of the things that you do with doctors too, is you help them charge more.
Absolutely. And I love it. Well, it's, I, I've learned a lot in the golf business and I've learned, you know, I've learned, I was having this conversation yesterday at this, facilitator's retreat. And, um, in order for me to survive my childhood, I, um, which was pretty fucking bad, um, I had to become a chameleon. Because if you stood out, you, you had to blend, right? You had to adopt everybody's kind of belief systems really quickly.
Mm-hmm.
Because if you were different than anybody else, you would get verbally abused like you wouldn't believe, right? So I learned at a very early age, keep my, keep my thoughts to myself. Blend. Well, then when I got into the golf business, I grew up in an Irish Catholic working class Democrat family in Chicago. Now I'm working in private country clubs. Like, we need to blend. So I learned really quickly how to be a chameleon.
Mm-hmm.
But what that taught me is I have an unbelievable ability to assimilate into any type of environment. Mm-hmm. And listen and learn from them. Right. Okay. So I have like a lot of Jewish friends. I got a lot of Mormon friends. Like I have, my friends are broad spectrum. Mm-hmm. Right. But what I learned about that is that I learned about, well, everybody has like a different set of values or beliefs about what they think is important. Mm-hmm. Transgender rights, LGBTQ rights.
Mm-hmm.
Religious rights, whatever it is. Okay. What I discovered is this. I don't care if you're part of the LGBTQ community or you believe that everybody should own ARs and you live in West Texas. Okay. Everybody wants the exact same thing. And that exact same thing is they do not want to be told what to do or what to believe.
Okay.
Okay. Everyone, every group wants freedom to be—
They want autonomy.
They want autonomy. The second thing is everyone will pay exponentially more for 2 things. One, something that they irrationally are in love with, golf, tennis, whatever. Okay. And they make their buying decisions based on price. And it's not the prices. They don't buy what's the cheapest. They generally buy the most expensive one or the middle expensive.
Right.
They'll always buy the middle expensive. If you give them 3 choices, 60% of the people will take the middle.
Yep. Okay.
100%. So what that taught me is if I can control the frame of price, so, and we have a formula for it. I won't reveal it here because that's what we— our clients pay us a lot of money for. We are by far the most expensive program in the industry, bar none. Like, our basic program is the same price of everybody else's high-end program.
Okay.
And my high-end program is 6 figures. Okay. I have 2 6-figure levels. And when you present the highest price first, 60% of the people I don't care what industry, what— I don't care if you're Jewish, Mormon. Again, it doesn't matter what you are. 60% of the people will always choose the middle price. Yeah. If you present 3 and you present the highest one first, if you only have one price, you are generally leaving a significant number of buyers on the table. Yeah. Every business should have 3 choices.
Yeah.
It's the number one thing that we do is we show them how to create packages and create 3 choices. Yeah. That alone will increase the revenue by 25 to 50%.
Crazy, right?
Mm-hmm. And every, by the way, every 11% that you increase your revenue, you double your profitability.
Oh, wow.
Learned that from Roland Frasier. Yeah. I'm like, that's bullshit. I'm like, oh, fuck, he's right. Oh, Roland's a smart guy.
He is a smart guy.
He's a brilliant man.
He's a smart guy.
He is a brilliant— I don't want him on my side of the negotiating table.
Right.
I do not wanna negotiate. I do not wanna be on the other side of Roland. And I've told Roland that, and I've known Roland for years. I've known him for like a good 5 to 8 years.
You know what's so interesting is that from a functional med regen clinic or to a jiu-jitsu school, that principle stays the same. Yeah, 100%.
Because jiu-jitsu schools, like, you're not—
3 prices on the table.
So are you the most expensive jiu-jitsu school in San Antonio?
Oh yeah. We wanna be.
Yeah. By how much?
Oh, 20%, 30%. Yeah.
20%, about 20, 20, 30%. Yeah. That's kind of the, Now, did you purposely do that? Like, do you find out what your competitors are charging and then move up? Or did you just stick a—
We are often told, oh my God, this school is only charging this. This person's only charging. I'm like, that's amazing.
And what do you say? That's, is that what you say?
I'm like, yeah, that's amazing.
That's amazing.
I love it.
You never compete on price?
Never. Why not? I don't think you ever should.
Talk about that. 'Cause I, my doctors need to hear this.
Price is irrelevant.
Are you sure you're not like into my brain? 'Cause that's what I say all the time.
It is 100% irrelevant. Now make a conversation sales process about the price. Give them all of the FAQs to why the price is that. Dude, they're not gonna buy it. I'm sure that doesn't align with your 9 questions.
There's, you, if you have to justify, yeah, you're screwed.
Right. Why are, why are you justifying your price? I also believe That the offer is just the how.
So okay, explain that.
The price is just the how. The commitment is the close. So we have a script, and I wonder if our scripts are similar to yours. We'll have to you know compare notes.
Did you get it from Kevin Nations? No. God, I've known Kevin for twenty years. Yeah, yeah. I've been in his mastermind. Yeah. I've known Kevin for twenty years. I'm gonna get him on the podcast next time in Vegas. Yeah. Yeah. He gave me his big money script twenty years ago. It was two thousand and five.
I'll tell him. I'll be like, Kevin, I'm here.
Oh, he's yeah. I'm yeah. We'll send him a picture. We should. We should send him a picture. Um. Um.
So within this script, right, it is a high-ticket script. Mm-hmm. And it's for a jiu-jitsu school. That's why it's the same damn thing. Yeah. Before we give them the price, we get the commitment. So I like to ask 2 questions. Matt, you're here today. I'm like so excited that you've shared all this information with me. Now, if I were to say, Matt, are you like, wow, Rebecca, I wish I would've done this 3 years ago. Like, I am a hell yes. Or are you like, oh, Rebecca, like this sounds kind of cool, but I'm still unsure. Like, where would you put yourself? And you're like, oh, I'm a hell yes. And I'm like, I love that. But here's the thing, buyers are liars. So before I just believe they're hell yes, I'm going to ask him the next question. Questions lead to confessions, right?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
So I ask him the next question. I'm like, Matt, I love that you're a hell yes. Now tell me this, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1, like, bro, this is not for me. And 10, like, how do I get started? Where, take my credit card. Where are you? And you're like, I'm an 8. Now you just went from a hell yes to an 8.
Right.
This is why buyers are liars.
Right.
Wow, Matt, that's really high. Tell me why. And now you're gonna resell yourself on why you should do this. And then I might even ask, and you're like, and we're ready to do this right now. And you're like, yeah, I just closed you with you having no idea what the price is.
Well, it's just like a medical appointment.
Yeah.
The script, the questions that you're asking, right? Right. How important is it to, what, what caught, what brought you in today? Right. What is, what is it that you wanna do in the future that you can't do right now? Right.
What, you know, people don't understand the reason the price is irrelevant is because it's already costing them something. They just have not materialized that cost. How much, how much, like what does stress cause to your body?
Uh, cancer.
Cancer.
Heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, Alzheimer's.
All the shit we don't want, right?
Everything that they're telling us is bad for us.
So I have this bad thing in my life that is causing me insane amount of stress, but I don't want to get rid of it for a few grand. No, I'd rather have cancer and spend $100,000 in medical bills.
Yeah.
And business owners don't understand this at all.
The— I hate the discount game.
Oh, me too.
I can't stand it.
Yeah.
And I use this analogy from stage. Imagine going to the cardiologist and needing quadruple bypass and the cardiologist goes, tell you what I'm gonna do. You need a quadruple bypass. If you sign up by Friday, I'll do, I'll do the second 2 for free. So it's a buy 2, get 2 free artery thing. But you gotta sign up by Friday. I gotta get your surgery done by Saturday. You'd be like, A, you sound like Bernie Sanders, and B, I'm getting the fuck out of here.
Right.
Right. Okay. Right. And yet, and yet that's what we do. Yeah. Right. They're like, well, you know, you're here and you need to join. I'll do the second joint for 20%, you know, for, you know, for $200. I'm like, what?
Yeah.
Why would you do that? And the problem is, is that the functional medicine biologics doctors, they look at the med spa space. Yeah. Yeah. And they've completely bastardized that space. That space has been completely commoditized and destroyed. I've done work in that space and I'm like, you have to be the absolute— you, you have to be so high priced that people will not question why you are 4 times what everybody else is. Yeah. Right. And they think, well, that's what they do with Botox. I'm like, Botox is poison right now. I use it, but like, you know.
But I know what I'm doing.
But I know what I'm doing. I know I'm injecting poison into my forehead. So, like, you can't— the mistake is to look at other industries. And I consult, like I said, I have a client I consult in the online psychedelic market. Okay. Something that is very near and dear to me. I'm a big believer of it. I've done numerous journeys. It's completely transformed my life and dealt with all this trauma that I grew up with, and it continues to transform my life. So I have a friend of mine, he has this place, and he primarily survives Buy 1, get 2 at 50% off.
Okay. It's a horrible thing.
And I'm like, he goes, my margins are great. I go, they could be better. And so what we've done is we've, we're in the process of completely repositioning him that his prices are gonna be 2x more than his, than like, 'cause his stuff is so pure.
Right.
He grows 'em in sound baths. He, it's small batch. He does a limited number every single month of what, like he has this, I'm like, Like we're gonna, and I've talked to a couple people that are like, yeah, that's the approach. Like it's, my point is, is that every business, every single business can be repositioned as the high-end exclusive offer. Right. And the great thing about it is your market. Like if you're in San Antonio, yeah. You, how many, how big is San Antonio? A million and a half? 2 million? Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Easy. Easy. And if you control that— so it becomes a numbers game. Ooh. I don't need everybody. I just need the right ones.
So Gridlock, let's talk a little bit more about it. Okay. What is the— what do you see with your clients? Like, I know you've got a couple of our folks now. You've just— you've been working with them for a couple of months. Yeah. So getting things— and I know it's been a challenge because a lot of their sites absolutely blow. Yeah. Okay. But what are you starting to see with people when they— and, and or like in other people in industries, like what happens to their businesses?
Well, some really cool things. Um, I know this sounds silly, but like their phones start ringing.
Which is another problem into itself.
It's a whole other problem into itself. I'm like, please go talk to Matt, please. All the things he's taught you, please use them. Yes. Um, because that's another problem to solve. There's so many problems to solve for business owners. A lot.
AI's solving a lot of problems, but AI's not gonna solve all of 'em. No. Um, I mean, AI can handle a phone call a little bit. it. It's not there yet though.
It's not there yet. No, no. It's not as good as a good, a good person on the phone.
Oh, a good person on the phone. You should pay 80 grand a year.
Oh yeah.
Yeah. They're worth their weight in gold.
They are 100%.
My appointment setter, which is kind of like the person who answers the phone, makes low 6 figures. Oh, good. I mean, it's that important in the position.
Yeah. It's so insanely important.
My front desk people, I paid 'em back in the day, this was 2015-ish, we were paying 'em We used to try to get away with paying 'em like $35,000. Yeah. Started paying 'em like $60,000, you know, bonuses and stuff.
One of the skills that like every business owner should have, even if you're like an orthopedic surgeon, is like, go cold call people.
Oh God.
It's horrible. It's miserable. It sucks. Nobody wants to do it.
I hate it.
It's horrible.
And I'm a salesperson.
It's miserable.
It's awful. Yeah.
But you learn so much. You figure out the pieces to the puzzle. of how to get a person to stay on for 2 more seconds. Mm-hmm. You know, how do I get to their, the guy that I need to get to? What do I need to say? Oh shit, that didn't work. Oh wow, that worked a little bit better. Mm-hmm. And now they start understanding the importance of building that first connection on the phone. Yep. Um, in our jiu-jitsu school way back in the day when we were, you know, figuring all the shit out from the, the construction company going bankrupt to having the jiu-jitsu schools and And my sales team would like, they would play to see who could get the calls that I set. And they'd be like, oh my God, that Rebecca was on the phone with that person. Like, I'm taking that sale because they knew it was like, I just set it up for them and all they had to do was spike it down.
Wow.
Yeah.
The, when I had the clinics, we, and we had 3 of them, we had a process when you came to work for us. I didn't care what position you were in. Mm-hmm. Everyone started at the front desk.
100%.
Okay. Because that was the nerve center. And I had this woman, Latoya, who worked for me. She was from the Bronx and this was in Raleigh, North Carolina. And she worked the front desk and she was a badass, right? Yeah. She took no shit. She ran that thing like it was like a freaking Viking slave ship. I mean, it was fucking like, where's the drum?
I love that.
Fucking nobody was out of line. Yeah. And I remember one day I was giving her shit. She goes, you know, Matt, I'll cut you. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I know you will. Like, she was a play— that was like loving. That was a loving— that was a compliment. Like, I love you, Matt. I'm gonna cut you.
Okay.
So she would— I would say everyone, you have to go spend a week at the front desk. You have to learn our script. You have to book appointments. You have to check people in. Yeah. And you do not graduate until Latoya says you're ready. You're ready.
Oh, wow.
Okay. So I had this doctor come work for me, his urologist. And I said, okay, you can come work for us. I said, but you're gonna learn every position. Right? And he goes, what do you mean? And I go, you're gonna work the front desk for a week. Yeah. And he goes, but I'm a doctor. Yeah. And I go, but you work for me. Right? You work at the men's clinic. I go, this is what we do. And so he's working the front desk. This is, this guy's like 60+ years old.
Yeah.
Urologist for 30 years. He comes into my office at the end of the day, gets down on his knees and goes, please, for the love of God, do not fucking make me work the front desk anymore. I will never, ever complain. Yeah. About the front desk. I have seen the error of my ways.
I've been to hell. He tells me that.
He goes, please, for the love of God, do not make me do it anymore. And I go, I don't have that call. So bring in Latoya. And she goes, he did all right. We'll let him slide. But don't ever— she said, but don't ever bitch about us. Like, because like, that's the thing. People like, oh, the front desk people, they don't know what the hell they're doing. I'm like, have you worked the front desk? Right? Do you know what it's like? Do you know what happens? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's— it is critical.
Yeah. So anyhow, side note from there. So Gridlock, working with the doctors I think one, most of the time they just don't have any idea of what the marketing is. And some of them are paying for marketing, right? Like some of them are, are not, not trying. They just have no idea of like what they're actually building for the marketing. Right. And I will be the first to say this, that 9 outta 10 agencies suck.
You think it's that? I think it's that. You think it's that low?
Yeah.
I was gonna say 9.5 out of 10 agencies suck.
I'd say 9.5 outta 10 agencies suck.
They do suck. They're, most of 'em are fucking awful.
They're horrible.
By the way, and if I recommend somebody, it's because we vetted the shit out of them.
Yeah.
Not you.
They're all liars.
Yep.
And that's the piece that like, oh, you know, I'm not gonna tell you that 100% of our campaigns are gonna be amazing. And if shit doesn't work, we're gonna do our damnedest to fix it.
Right.
Right?
Marketing is hard.
Right. But what I will tell you is that I'm gonna do exactly what I said I was gonna fucking do.
Mm-hmm.
That's what I'm gonna do.
Mm-hmm.
And so many agencies have picked up a sales book and been like, oh, I figured out how to sell people. So I'm gonna—
Well, they would join Frank Kern for Frank Kern training back in the day when Frank was teaching local business how to be a local business marketing agency.
And they're like, oh shit, I got some clients. Well, I'm not gonna do shit for them, but they're gonna pay me and I'm gonna lock 'em in a contract.
Oh God, I got 10 clients at $2,000 apiece. I'm making 20 grand. I'm loaded. Lemme go buy a new Tesla.
Oh yeah, that's a whole other story. Yeah. So these marketing agencies suck, so I don't blame the doctors for that. Right? That's not their fault. They hired someone who said they were gonna do something and that didn't evolve, and now they've built mistrust. Mm-hmm. So now it's like, well, what are you gonna do? But why are you gonna do it? And why aren't you doing it fast enough? Mm-hmm. And marketing is not always an overnight fix. In fact, most of the time it's not.
Like, it's never an overnight fix.
Yeah.
Can't— it's like, it's like turning a steamship around in the ocean in high seas.
If all of the pieces are there correctly, you make our jobs easier. If all of the pieces are crumbled and messy as hell, it's gonna take more time.
It's, and the reason why your shit isn't working is because the pieces are crumbled and all going to hell. Right.
You, you hired a website company, they lied to you, they built you a website that's horrible. It's not gonna work that fast. If you have a decent website, you're in the top 20, your GBP isn't miserable. Wow. Okay. We might be able to get there in 30, 45 days.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Um, I had a doctor tell me the other day, and his site was a Wix site.
I know who this is.
We built the new site, and then after 30 days he says, well, I'm just wondering why this isn't working fast enough. And I wanted to bitch slap him a little bit. Um, I should have, with love. I, you know, I, I think I knew who it was. I kind of did it in, in a, in a loving way, and I was like, well, look where Look where you were on what page you were with zero relevance that you had, and now we're going to try to get here. Yeah. I'll also say that there is an identity crisis with some of these doctors because a lot of them are orthopedic surgeons or some type of surgery management or pain management, and now they're moving into the region space because they see the markets going there, and they're not sure who they want to be yet.
They're trying to split. be both.
And, and they're, that's their question to us is like, well, why can't we do this for both? And I'm like, because now you're confusing the market. Mm-hmm. The market doesn't know who you are.
That's a big, huge mistake. You have to plant your flag.
Yeah. Yeah. And so like, pick one, buddy. Like, pick one. Who do you wanna be?
Yeah.
And then we're gonna tell Google who you are, what you do, and where you do it. Mm-hmm. But if you try to make a goulash, you know, a goulash with like all the extra vegetables from the freezer that are expired 6 months ago, it's gonna be harder.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I couldn't agree more. It's why in my first book, The Anatomy of a 7-Figure Medical Practice, we talk about the beachhead. One market, one message, one offer. Yeah. Being known and people are like, but I do all these other things.
I'm like, right. You need— Nobody fucking cares.
You need a gateway drug. You need a fucking gateway drug. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. After the, after you get 'em hooked on marijuana, you can move 'em to heroin. Yeah.
Right. Like, yeah. So, you know, it's like, but, but a first step. Always a first step.
You have to be known. We— and we in our ED clinics, we did erectile dysfunction. Now we did hormone replacement therapy, hair restoration, medically guided weight loss. We did a bunch of things. Okay. The only thing we marketed was come to the clinic one time, meet with the doctor, get a test dose. If you don't see results in 12 minutes, you owe us nothing. That's our guarantee to you. Yeah. And that was our— that was our offer. Our market was, hey guys, has the little blue pill failed you again? We didn't want people that were having casual erectile dysfunction. We wanted guys that had failed using pills, potions, pumps, and points. Now I've got a very clear market. I can speak to a very clear message. I've got a very clear offer. Yeah. This is one of the ways that we got 50 appointments per location per week. Yeah. It was a fricking machine.
Yeah. I like to say specificity spits out cash. Yep. Yep. The more specific you can be to the market, the better your message is going to be. And that's what we're trying to do. We're not trying to confuse things for Google. We're trying to make insane clear signals. Mm-hmm. Insane.
Yeah.
I'll, I'll say that, like, you know, doctors are doctors, right? There's a little bit of narcissism in there, narcissism in there, but that's not necessarily a bad thing all the time.
No, narcissism is actually pretty healthy sometimes.
Yeah. It's not a bad thing.
This is a pretty good survival tactic.
Right. And so it's not bad, but there's a little bit of like identity struggle. Mm-hmm. You know, like, well, this doesn't exactly match who I am, but it is what's going to drive the business. So are you willing to detach yourself from who you are, who, how you wanna be perceived in order to get the result that you want. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So like you have to detach that ego space. Yeah.
Yeah. It's big. You know, I, it's one of the bigger mistakes when we can get somebody really dialed in. Mm-hmm. It's easier for us to have success, I think, with a startup at times. And that's about 35 to 40% of our market. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Versus an insurance practice transitioning, which is another 35 to 40% of our market.
Okay.
Because there's an identity crisis with the second group.
Mm-hmm.
So we have a client who's in Texas.
Mm-hmm.
Family practitioner who's moving into functional medicine. And the advice we gave him, and I give this advice to everybody, I said, you've got this big team of 25 people, take 3 people. And that's all they do now is they work in the cash-based side of the business.
Mm-hmm.
They don't spend any time in the insurance side.
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't matter how slow they are, they don't pick up any patients. Their job is to build this. We're gonna build a practice within a practice and create an ecosystem, and that ecosystem's gonna move out. Yeah. And it's gonna re— the other ecosystem's gonna reduce in size. Mm-hmm. And so we'll create, we're gonna create separate sites, separate all this. Yeah. For all of this, you keep this other thing over here because if you just stick it on there, nobody's gonna find it. You've gotta have your own pathway, your own name, like this whole thing. Yeah. We create a whole separate identity and that is the best way.
Mm-hmm.
It's when we, try to, you know, skate between the two, it becomes a, it's a disaster. It's a mess. It's a, it's very difficult. They don't know who they are. It's very difficult. And the staff doesn't know who they are.
Yeah.
And then the staff gets, gets, gets disgruntled and then they start saying, this cash thing's stupid. We should just, you know, make sure that everything's covered by insurance for everybody. Yeah. Like, well, that doesn't work 'cause you're not gonna make any money. So.
Right. And identity is the biggest play in marketing. Mm-hmm. You know, if you can help somebody shift It's hard. It's the hardest, but it's the biggest. If you can help them shift to, I wanna be Wonder Woman, you know, then like they can attach to that easy.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah. So how do people get in touch with you? They wanna find out about Gridlock.
Yes. This is a funny question because I am not all out there on the internet.
I know, I know. Which is really funny, right?
It's really funny. Probably.
Well, but it's not, but it's, I want everybody to understand. Mm-hmm. It's a different conversation if you are a local, right? Brick and mortar. Yeah. About how you market versus someone like you and I, right? That is cert— like I have clients all over the world. Right. Right. Like, yeah. You know, I'm not gonna be running targeting campaigns for London. Yeah. I mean, I did just get a client in London, but maybe I will. Right. But like, right. So it's a different conversation. Yes. Right. So it's not like you're gonna pop up on Maps and they can swing by your house and stuff.
Um, no, not, not, we don't have, I don't have Maps for, For my agency. Yeah, it's okay. But you know, maybe when Google will allow me to have one at the farm. So a lot of people find me on LinkedIn. I am there. Okay. You know, I've got my email, rebecca@mymainstreetmarketing.com.
So it's Rebecca and you spell Rebecca R-E-B-E-K-A-H.
It's like the Bible. Okay. Rebecca at My Main Street Marketing.
Okay. And your last name if they look you up on LinkedIn? Rebecca Duron. Duron. D-U-R-O-N.
D-U-R-O-N. Okay. Or find me through Matt.
Or find me through Matt. Yeah. If you are listening to this and you are a client, you can go onto our network, Mighty Networks, and her information is there. If you are not a client, just contact her.
On LinkedIn.
You find her on LinkedIn and say that you heard, because we have special pricing for them to go through.
Yes, we do.
So you wanna talk a little bit about that?
Yeah, absolutely. So what we do first, which is our coffee date, right? I try to do what I say is we offer a 30-day trial. It is a paid trial, so it's $1,000 for a paid 30-day trial. We will need to get access to your website. We'll need access to your GBP. I preface by saying access to the website as that sometimes becomes a problem depending on who owns the website. And then we'll set everything up within 7 days. We'll give you an analysis of exactly where you are right now. Don't be scared. Don't cry. It's okay. We'll help you fix it. And then, because people sometimes don't want to look at that.
No.
And then within that period of time, we'll be able to identify the keywords that are most specific and most helpful, you know, cause more revenue for the clinic. And then that's what we'll have, you know, put a plan in action for that. If your website needs help, which sometimes it does, probably 50% of the time minimum, we can help you. So we can build out those subdomains as we talked about before. There is a price tag for it. So let me be clear, there's a price tag for it. You might want to do the trial first and then be like, okay, I'm really ready to move forward.
Right.
Longer term. And I'll even say that after that trial, if you're coming into gridlock, it is $5K a month.
Okay. Yeah. And the thing about it is that, but then you own that radius.
You own that space. It's yours.
Then if you stop paying, you don't own that space.
It's no longer yours.
It's no longer yours.
It belongs to somebody else. Yeah. Yeah.
And it's like, I, you know, people are always like, but I shouldn't have to keep paying. I'm like, let me explain something to you.
Right.
When your client comes in and you fix their testosterone, syndrome, right? And you give them peptides and they start feeling better, right? Would they ever want to stop? I mean, I pay $2,500 a month. Yeah. Um, for my— for working with my doctor, right? And, you know, then I pay medications on top of that.
Yeah.
I'll never stop, right? I'm 58. I mean, like, I compare my— look at my— look at my 58-year-old friends. I'm like, yeah, I'm doing way better than them, right? Like, I got a lot of work to do, right? Got a lot of doctors for free.
Yeah. Yeah. And you have exclusive, like you own that zone.
No one else is gonna be coming in. You're gonna own 1 and 2 in those key areas. Yeah. It's, I will tell everybody like it's a foreign, because your brain is like, they think that marketing should end. Marketing never stops. Never ends. It's not an expense. No, it is an investment. 100%. And when, if you stop and you think about how many times, and I'm gonna use this, I'm in Austin, Texas. Neo, my assistant, and that is his real name. He's not a bot. He lives in the Philippines.
I've met him.
Yeah.
He's a nice guy.
He is a nice guy.
Yeah.
He, he's in the Philippines and I guarantee you, he, I gave him the address of where I was staying and he Googled podcast studio and this showed up in 1 or 2 in the, in the maps. I know it did. Right. I don't even have to look.
Yeah.
'Cause we do this all over the country. Yeah. And that's how he chose. And he's in the Philippines.
Right.
And if you look at what Google is today at the moment of this recording, the top 2/3 of it is an AI answer, Gemini.
Yeah.
And the next thing is Maps.
Yep.
You don't— those are the 2 things above the fold. You don't see paid ads that much anymore.
Mm-hmm.
And then SEO is being pushed down to the second page, which means it's irrelevant.
Yeah.
And this is not SEO, people. This is— do not— it is— don't say, is it just like SEO? No, it's not.
Right. It's completely And it is also layering into the AEO space. Mm-hmm. So what we do affects your AEO.
Tell 'em what AEO stands for.
Um, artificial.
Yeah, it's like artificial into I— yes.
Engine optimization.
Optimization. Yes. Yeah. Sorry, I had to think about it too. Yeah. 'Cause it's a brand new phrase.
Right. Um, so AEO is your Geminis, your chats, your quads, because what are people doing now? They're using AEO. Mm-hmm. We do have tools that will help you rank in AEO. Mm-hmm. Like where they'll suggest who you are. And it's silly, but it happens with blogs that AI writes, but we build it with the code that AI reads. So it's not just handwritten blogs. Um, but I will say this, to be very honest, it's kind of a fugazi. Like it's— It is. We're headed there. We're headed there quickly.
Did you marry an Italian or are you part Italian?
Neither.
It's a gazi.
But we're not—
I date, I date an Italian.
We're not there yet, but should you start building it now? Well, yeah, you can.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and we're gonna be talking about AEO and what it's doing in the marketplace at our mastermind in July. Oh, good. Um, in Las Vegas for those people that are a part of our program. And if you're not, schedule a call with Christina. Let's get you in. Okay. And then we will probably do a bigger session in our November session because this is changing fast and so fast. Maybe we can have you out there to do some— yeah, do a session. It's gonna be a long— it's a 2.5-day event. So in November? November. Yeah. Okay. We can talk about it. Yeah, we'll talk about it. We gotta work on a location and all that other fun stuff.
Nice.
It's— I'm starting— I'm seeing a massive shift in the way marketing works, and I haven't seen this fast a shift For 20 years. That's crazy. It is crazy. It's really, it's really crazy. I'm spending a lot of time on it. I've, when I get done with this, I'll go spend 3 to 4 hours. Now I study this stuff because I have to teach it. Yeah. And I gotta understand at a very deep cellular level. Yeah. You don't need to spend 3 to 4 hours a day. No, no. Like I am like, but for people like you and I, we like to understand and how, because it's changing fast and it's very fluid. Well, and, but it's very powerful.
And if you're not doing it, have somebody on your team that's doing it.
Team that knows how to do it.
Yeah.
Yeah, cool. Yeah, thanks for coming in, Rebecca. Thank you for driving up from San Antonio. Of course, pleasure. I was, I was at my place on, in Austin, or at the, up at the lake. I'm like, wait a minute, San Antonio's like an hour and a half away. I'll drive down and we've been trying to get this interview done for like months.
Yes, I'm so glad. I'm so glad you told me.
Yeah, it's great.
I'm glad you were able to come up. Absolutely. Thank you so much.
All right, and, uh, folks, give her a call, contact her. All right, this is good stuff. Thanks, Rebecca. Appreciate Bye-bye. If this episode got you thinking differently, hit follow and share it with someone stuck in the system. Please leave a review. It helps us grow. Want more? Visit MavericksProfitSystem.com to schedule your free discovery call and explore how far your business can go.
