Fresh Starts, Aging, and Acceptance: Redefining What It Means to Begin Again with Emma Wilson

Welcome to find you'd clarity. I'm your coach and your show host, Megan Johnston. For over a decade, I've helped women move from burnout, pressure and overthinking to clarity, confidence and ease. If you've been stuck in a cycle of self doubt or fear, this is your space to come back to you. Each episode will blend real life coaching, grounded tools and intuitive insight to help you trust yourself more, lead with your energy and take your next aligned step now. Now let's find your clarity and the life that's been waiting for you on the other side. Hello. Welcome back to the show, my friend. Today, I'm joined for a second time by my friend, an incredible coach and former client, Emma, also known as the turning 30 coach. Since the last time she was on the show with us, you know, her whole life has kind of transformed. She's gone through marriage and motherhood and a move across the world to Thailand. So many fresh starts. So we definitely talk about that. We can't just breeze past that. We love the personal on this show. We also deep dive what it means and what it looks like and how we can really embrace fresh starts at any age. You know, if you feel like it's too late to begin again, this is going to be a great listen for you. We talk about how acceptance shows up not as a passive act, but as an empowering one. And of course, by design of two coaches being on the show, Emma challenges me a little bit to answer some questions about acceptance. We have a really fun conversation around that. We also talk about the fear of aging and how societal expectations can play into our choices around dating and relationships as well. That's something that Emma really specializes in is dating and relationships, particularly at the years 30 and beyond. And we really untangle some big. What's the way to say it? Like concepts. Yeah, big concepts that are out there in the dating and relationship world. So it's a really, really good conversation. So whether you are, you know, navigating a breakup, a big move, a job change, or, you know, simply the natural changes and transitions that happen as we age and get older, this conversation is full of wisdom and permission slips and of course, intentional action that you can take to really trust yourself into the unknown. So enjoy the conversation and as always, we'd love to hear from you after the welcome back to the show, my friend. Do you know last time you were on, you were still very pregnant?

Really? Wow. Well, a lot has changed since then.

I was gonna say give us a life update.

Yeah, well, I'm no Longer pregnant because it's obviously a couple of years ago and I have a very beautiful 17 month old. And what else is life update? I since then got married and I didn't have a beautiful wedding night. Yours. We just did it on Zoom, a Utah Zoom wedding. And then we have relocated to Thailand and I'm now living on a tropical island in the middle of the south, southeast of Asia. So yeah, that's my updates.

No big deal. I feel like it was just like every big possible life change you could possibly fit. What's the you said Lenny? 17 months. So that's within 17 months. That feels like a lot of change. How are you holding it all?

I'm not. No, no, no. I'm just saying get high. You know, it's, it's, it was our decision. It's, you know, it's our choice to leave and set up a new life. And obviously with that has come the obstacles of all the things that you have to organize when you start fresh. But it's definitely been learning and growth moments, but feeling more stable now. We actually moved six times in seven months, which was wild. But we now have found our place that we will call home for at least another year. And we love it and it's a really nice community and we've met really great people. And honestly, if we would have recorded this maybe a few months ago, we'll be in a very different place. And I think it just shows how quickly things can change because we had to go through a series of hard decisions and I guess upheavals to get to where we are now. But we really love where, where we're living and where we've landed. So for now this is, this is where we are and we're happy with it.

Yeah. So exciting. You said the words fresh start in there, which I feel like just like leads really beautifully to our conversation today around just like aging and all of the things that comes up. And I feel like one of the big things I hear when people are talking about, you know, getting older is like this fear of having fresh starts again and like having new beginnings. And it's, it's almost like we stop giving ourselves permission to restart things. Is that something you hear coming up a lot when you're working with people on this?

100%. Because I think that there is some sort of expectation or societal expectation that once you get past a certain age, that life will just flow in like a linear, nice chronological order. And this is what I talk about a lot in my content. You know, I brand Myself as, you know, know as the turning 30 coach. So I'm working predominantly with women who are turning or already in their 30s. And I think that we have the conception that once you turn 30, life will just be on its way and we will have ticked those boxes that we were always planning on ticking and that things were just one thing would lead to the other without any disruption. And as we know, this isn't life. And exactly like you said, the older you get, the more that you fear that if you have to start again, if your circumstances change, that means that you have to have a fresh start or you choose to have a fresh start. You know, it could be forced, it could be by choice. Yeah, Nothing wrong with that. It's normal at any age. But again, I think it is very much to do with that. We have this preconceived notion that life will just be flowing in a. In a linear path and it's just not the truth.

Yeah. Yeah. I do feel like I hear more and more people sharing that, which, you know, makes my heart happy because maybe we're starting to create a new normal around it all. As someone who just kind of like went through the whole reset, is there anything you kind of did even to even, like, settle your nervous system as you were kind of moving into the unknown?

I think it's just to accept the unknown is the biggest thing. It's something that I've been exploring a lot, and I will say in terms of working with clients, my community has primarily women who are single and in their 30s. And I think their big fresh starts often are off the back of big breakups and being unexpectedly. Having to then set up a new life, whether that's even to move city or move country or find a new group of friends, find a new job is also obviously another big reset, but the big the breakup one and having to form the life post breakup is a big one. And I will say from my experience that my breakup back when I think it was actually after we first were working together many, many years ago, when I was 33, that for me was the. When I think of a big, fresh reset that was. This is the time of my life when I. When I think of it, because don't get me wrong, moving country has been a whole reset. But I think that maybe the skills that I developed in the first fresh reset has really helped me with this one. And yes, to go back to the question, it is that embracing the not knowing and trying to stay present, trying to combat that fear of not understanding exactly where you're going to be maybe in one month's time, maybe in one year's time. And also just being able to say, that's okay, you know, I went through that huge, big breakup and I had no idea where it was going to lead me to the point of I didn't even know where I was going to live. And just really having to foster a very, very deep inner trust in yourself that no matter what happens, you're okay, you've got it. And to accept that it's. It's going to be worth, and it's going to be a little bit difficult, but there's nothing you can't handle. And I would say that that attitude, that mantra almost changed everything for me this time around. But I learned those skills when I went through that huge seismic shift at age 33. Yeah.

Do you find that like these concepts like acceptance and like even concepts like self worth, they're these very like, intangible concepts. So like, it can sound, it can sound so simple of like, oh, yeah. And you just accept the unknown. You just put that into practice. And that can be like. At least in my personal experience, it can feel like, frustrating sometimes too, of just like I'm trying to accept it.

Like, like, what does it mean?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. What does it mean? And are there, are there also, like, yeah. Any like, very tangible practices too you would put in place to like, support it?

Well, it's really interesting this question has come up because I have a membership of women. There was over 100 women in there who are doing this work. And it came up that we have a live group coaching Q A once per month. And one of the questions was, what does it mean to accept? Like, we keep talking about acceptance, but. But I don't understand how I can actually do it. And I don't actually understand what it would mean to accept. So it really got me thinking because you're right, sometimes these coaching terms can be very fluffy. They can be very intangible and sometimes frustrating because you're like, okay, Emma, that's nice. You know, I can try and accept where I am right now, but how does that actually look in my day to day? So I decided to run a whole session on acceptance to actually dig down on what it means. And I actually came to the session and said, I don't even know how to explain and teach acceptance because I have modules on it in courses that really give tips and tools and all of this thing. But the truth is, is that acceptance is very deeply personal. So what we did Is we did a few journaling prompts together, and one of the questions that I asked, and it can ask to your audience now, your listeners, what does acceptance mean to you? Because I think for each person, it means something different. And from that, we had a really good dialogue, and lots of the things were coming up that it means to surrender. So it means that knowing that actually where you are right now isn't a bad thing, even if you want to change it. Surrender for other people meant all different things. Basically, everybody had a different perception of what surrender had meant to them. Acceptance I meant to them. So some of it was surrender. Some was letting go of control. Some was stopped trying to change their present. So, yeah, I think it's really important to understand what acceptance actually, by definition, means to you right now. And then I would say another good thing to make that term more tangible and less fluffy is to look back to something in your life that you think that maybe once you weren't in acceptance of, but you have learned to accept. So it can be something really, really specific. And how did you go through that journey? How did you go through that process to get there? What did that look like? What action steps did you do in order to get there? And I think by asking those two questions, it will give a better idea of what acceptance does look like. And maybe I'll put the question back to you. What does acceptance mean to you? And do you have examples of times in your life where you didn't accept something? And then you did put me on.

The spot, you know, put two coaches in the room together, and that'll happen.

Also two podcast hosts. I'm like, I'm. I'm the interviewer.

We might switch back and forth in this episode. Let's see. Acceptance, to me, acceptance. I mean, there is definitely that element of surrender, but I find that that can be, like, the frustrating piece for me at the same time, because, like, so I often find myself in the pattern of, like, okay, I'm like, I'm surrendering. So I think the thing that I have to remember in acceptance is that it's not necessarily a passive act. And that's the thing I have to remind myself of. Like, acceptance isn't like, okay, now I'm gonna do nothing. Acceptance is I'm gonna find my ease. And that doesn't mean this season's gonna be easy, but it's, what can I put in place to create some ease? And that, for me, holds acceptance a little bit better.

I love that.

Yeah.

I actually think that the reason that people are afraid of acceptance is exactly what you just said there is that they think that if they accept that means that they won't take actions.

Yeah.

They think that if they accept something to be as it is, that it means that you're almost validating it and then saying, okay, I don't need to do anything now. And I think that's where people really struggle. And I can take this back to the example of being single and looking for a partner is that if you accept your singleness or you accept that this is where and you are in your life right now, which might look very different to what you had planned or those around you, that a lot of my clients are scared to accept that piece, that single piece, because they think in some way that that means that then they'll stop looking or they'll stop dating or they'll stop desiring a partner. And I always have to remind that you are. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Or you can absolutely accept something and say, okay, I get it. This is where I am in my life right now and I accept this part of my journey. However, I want to change it and I'm going to get into action.

Yeah.

So I think that's definitely a good, A good point that the two. Yeah, you don't have to just accept and then stand still.

Yeah. I think also like the reminder that's like making me think like the reminder that like acceptance isn't like. I think especially if you relate to like being a people pleaser, like sometimes I find that all like equate acceptance with like excusing behavior or something like that. And there's actually like such a difference in that. I think that's something that I hear come up with like my own clients as well. It's just like, well, I don't want to like, let this person, if there's another person involved, like, get away with certain behavior or like let myself settle into something. And there's like kind of a fine balance there of like. Yeah, again, acceptance isn't a passive act. It is also not a weak act. I think it's like actually very strong and bold to choose acceptance and choose again.

I agree. I totally agree.

Well, I'm curious, do you have anything you add on to your own personal acceptance definition?

For me, I think it is just about letting go of any pre. Pre notions or expectations that I had about where I should be at this point. And once I let those go and I can just embrace where I am right now and say, I accept that this is my Present this is my reality, and not try to have any resistance to change it. It doesn't mean I'm saying I love this. It doesn't mean I'm saying, oh, let me run around dancing, celebrating that I'm, you know, this specific thing, whatever we're trying to accept is exactly what I wanted or exactly what I would have planned for myself. No, but it's letting go of it, needing to be different. And that for me, in my journey, has been really pivotal. And I have to say that I, on my motherhood journey, have struggled a lot with acceptance. I think I got to a good point of acceptance with being single and being older than I thought I would be on those timelines and even getting pregnant and all those things. Like, I was in good acceptance. But when you become a mum, you know, there's a lot of pressures to be a certain way, to show up in a certain way. And that's been a really big struggle for me. So it's definitely open that box again and, like, really having to say what we did, what I just said now remind myself, like, okay, it's maybe not how I thought it would be, but nothing has gone wrong. It's okay that this is the way that it is. And just to let go of those judgments.

Yeah, I think you brought up something really important here, because this is something I've been thinking about a lot recently, is that we, in each season of our life, like, these lessons are going to kind of come up again in different ways. And I think sometimes if we're, like, on a personal development path or we're just, like, working on growing ourselves, we can have that feeling of, like, okay, did that lesson check? Now I'm going to know how to do acceptance, like, for the rest of my life. And it's gonna be just, like, super easy. And I think there's something so refreshing about hearing you share, like, yeah, this has come back up just in a new way in motherhood. And now I get to look at it in a different lens. And kind of tapping back to what you said earlier of just, like, what's the evidence I have from previous situations that it's gonna, like, support and anchor this now?

Oh, my God. Actually, what you said is the biggest truth ever. And I guess we should have led with that. Is that. And I literally say this at the start of anything. Any work that I do on acceptance, it's just moving pieces. It's not like you just accept something and then that's it for the rest of your life. You accept it. It's like you have to really keep. Keep accepting it. And then it's like I see it like a path and then you fall off the path and then you get back on the path and it's, it's just. Yeah, it's definitely not a one time tick box. And once you've done it, you're good to go. Yeah, I wish it was, but it's just not.

I know. Wouldn't that be nice? Well, I don't know. I don't know if it would be nice. I feel like sometimes we say things like, oh, yeah, that would be nice if I never have to do that again or if I never had fe. Or if I just like knew exactly the path in front of me. But if you really think about that, like, I don't know, that doesn't sound very fun to me.

It depends what it is. And sometimes, you know, I think of the example of like when you have like another lesson, like another healing lesson, you're like, I'm done now. I'm done healing. I've put my time in, you know.

Yeah.

But yeah, obviously life would be a lot more 2D.

Yeah, exactly.

If, you know, if we didn't have to learn our lessons again and again.

Yeah, Yeah. I love what you said of like, acceptance is just moving pieces. I feel like that's like such a, like double tap zoom in, like really hear that moment. Because I feel like that is the block that I hear coming up most as well. It's just like I can't do that. Like I can't change my mind again. Like I can't do this again. I've already, I've already changed everything once. Like I can't go through it again. And it's almost like, like you're bracing yourself for what your capacity can hold. But actually this season might look totally different than the one you were in before. Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm curious if you have. I don't know if you've seen this at all. And I think, I mean, you work mostly with women who are in their 30s. I don't know if other kind of age groups come in and different things like that within your spaces, but do you think people experience this differently in different phases of their life? Like those that are kind of like in their 20s, maybe that quarter life crisis, maybe entering into your 40s, are you starting to see different kind of ways people are experiencing the concept of aging or how they're entering into their new seasons of life?

My theory is that, and this is very much based on My own experience. But I do think we're now just for everyone, for the listeners. I'm 38, recently turned 38, so I'm very like a millennial, like in terms of the label, if you want to put on me. And I think that it might be different now what people feel like in their 20s because of social media, because of just changing world. But my personal experience is that in our 20s, me and my peers, we were just living life. We weren't thinking about aging, we weren't, you know, we were just getting on with things and, and living and almost it not like in a completely asleep, not self conscious way because like without consciousness. Because for sure, I was definitely someone who always journaled and always was interested in psychology and self awareness and having deep conversations. It wasn't that, but there was definitely no existential crises happening at that age because I was very busy and living a very full and bright, vibrant life. And then for me, and I will say this from my experience of the reason why I even picked working with this niche, is that when you turn 28, 29 and 30 is looming, all of a sudden the fear of aging comes in. And I think specifically related to being a woman because of biological clocks and things like that. It's also very specific to females that we feel this more around the age of 30. So I think that something happens when you turn 30 where almost like you feel invincible in your 20s and then you come onto your 30s and it's like almost like the reality of being an adult. Like the reality of, okay, you know, you've lived your childhood years and adolescence, you've lived your twenties and then now it's like, okay, like this is it. Now this, you know, there's no turning back. So I'd say that's what I think the difference between 20s and 30s are. Now I'm yet to be 40, but from what I understand from role models or interviewing people on the podcast, or you know, just having these conversations in general, people I've met along the way, I would say that fear of aging decreases as you get older. This is what I think. I think once you enter your 40s, there's like an ownership of age. There's more feeling of pride, there's more feeling of like wisdom and self worth. I really. So I don't know because I'm not there yet. But from what my perception is up until now is that the older that people get, the more accepting of aging that they get. And it feels like maybe just because it becomes more inevitable, maybe because you become more, you know, you're getting used to a new body, getting used to, if you're a woman, new hormones, new, you know, shifts and changes in the way that you, your body is. And yeah, like, there's something about it. And don't get me wrong, I'm really generalizing because I can imagine that going through menopause and all of these stages are, is very difficult and challenging. And I know that people do resist it and do feel fear. So it's not to say that, but yeah, I think there's something very empowering about growing older and I can feel it now. I was literally just saying to somebody yesterday how when I was 20, turning 30, I was like so terrified of turning 30 that I would often be like, you know, when I was 29, I'd be like, I'm 29, 29. Or you know, sometimes I just felt like I had to really hang back from the age of 30. Whereas now I'm two years away from 40 and I'm like, already like nearly in my 40s. Yeah, I've still got two years to go. That's like a quarter of my, well, not a quarter, a fifth of my 30s journey. But I'm already noticing that I'm like, well, I'm a 40 year old woman, so there's something there about like wanting to be in that bracket, you know, like wanting and not, not, not afraid of it anymore. And I think that Emma, at age of 29, 30, 31, was terrified of turning 40 and now I'm like, no, it's like a, it's a privilege. It's something to be grateful for.

Yeah, it's like that feeling of like, life's just getting like richer and richer. I think it probably helps a lot that you're doing like a lot of work on yourself too. And you're very intentional with your life. Right?

Definitely. Always helps. Helps everyone.

Yeah. Gosh, that's making me think of just like, because you said it's like very specific to women. And it just makes me think of like all the things women are sold at, like the different phases of their life. And I've been having conversations with, you know, some of my clients who are in the like perimenopausal stage and they're like, I'm just being sold so many things that I just constantly feel like something is wrong with me and I need this like, fix. And it can be so overwhelming. I feel like this could be like a whole rabbit hole we could go down. But is that something that comes Up a lot. Kind of in the, in your space with like the 30 space too.

I haven't actually had this conversation that much with clients, but I can tell it just from my own experience and like being targeted by the algorithm. It's like the minute you turn 35 and I know you're, you're younger, you're. How old are you? 33. 33, yeah. So you're about to have it.

I get ready for my algorithm.

Maybe, maybe you've already got it. I'm curious to know. But it's like the minute you turn 35, your whole algorithm becomes like protein meals. Like I have to eat protein. And you have to do weightlifting for perimenopause. You know, you have to strength training. It's no longer hit, you know, okay, you have to have red light masks and all this stuff. And it's like, what? Like, you know, all of a sudden I'm like, Greek yogurt. I have to get like perfect Greek yogurt. You know, I'm like going to the mall here and in Thailand trying to find this like specific yogurt. And you know, it's like, what, like, when did this become a thing? And like, yes, we are so, so targeted. And I don't know again, if it's just 33 year olds feel the same as a 38 year old and it's just the times that we're living in. I'm not sure what the variable is, but I can say that there is just so much marketing to women at every age, at every stage that causes us to strengthen these beliefs that aging is bad, that causes us to strengthen our, our fears around becoming less valuable as women as we grow older. And I'm talking, you know, very generic things like the Botox, like covering gray hair, like using the right serums and creams and all of those things. But we are targeted so much more than men. You can't even compare the amount of products that were sold and the services that we use that. And I'm a victim to it as well. You know, I don't want to say, oh, you know, I can see through it and I understand it, but I'm still there. I'm still the consumer. So I think it's a really good point that you said. And definitely these terms. I think perimenopause is a reasonably new term, like a new hype to talk about, let's say.

Yeah.

And it wasn't there before. No, it wasn't there 10 years ago. The word perimenopause and it's just. Yes, it's marketing. It's trying to put women into a bracket and say, okay, during perimenopause, you're going to feel this symptoms, this symptoms and this symptoms. And then people are like, oh, wow, you're right. I do feel joint pain and I do feel, you know, I get sweaty at night.

And.

Okay, so I must buy this because this will stop it or I must join this program. And it's a shame, but this is. This is the world, the.

The.

What's it called? The capitalist world that we are. Yeah. Residing in.

Yeah, yeah, I know. It can feel like so much like all the products and like, you know, it'll. You'll just see it. I mean, speaking to the algorithm of just like, I'll be talking about, like, I'm, you know, having like a little bit of brain fog or whatever, and then all of a sudden it's like, try this supplement and this supplement and this supplement, and like, maybe change your diet to this and change your diet to that. And it can just be so overwhelming. So I think there's just something even, just so refreshing to hear of. Like, yeah, that is a lot. And, like, just we can have a little bit of an exhale here and to have it in your awareness and there's so much power in just that in itself.

Right, exactly. And I think it's. It's just about being, like you said, aware enough to know that you are the consumer. So absolutely, you choose what to consume. That's fine. No one's gonna judge you. You shouldn't judge yourself for wanting to buy a supplement that might genuinely help you feel more comfortable in your body or, you know, to do something that will genuinely make you feel more confident. There's nothing wrong with that. And I really want to say that because I don't want to come here. You know, I'm actually, just before we started recording, I noticed I've got. This is a baby post. If anyone watching video postpartum, we hair regrowth. And it's. It's gray. Okay.

Yeah.

So it's completely gray now, my hair at the top. And I'm about to go to have it colored, recovered tomorrow morning, gonna have my hair highlighted blonde, because I'm not a natural blonde. I know you'll be shocked to know. And I think that, you know, I was just about to come on here to do the podcast, and I thought, oh, gosh, like, you can see my gray hair. And then I thought to myself, but why am I so ashamed of having gray Hair, you know, what's the big deal? I'm a woman who's old enough to have gray hair. We all start to go gray at some point, most of us, anyway. So it was just interesting because I think what you said is true, is like just. Just the exhale, but also the. The understanding that it's okay as well to have those fears. Like, it's something that has been ingrained in us since we were very, very young. And we have been targeted and will continue to be targeted for many years to come.

Yeah, Yeah. I love that you. What you said there, too, of just like. Like, I can bring it into my awareness, and then also I can just question, like, wait, but why does this actually matter? I think there's so much power in that of, like, what's the meaning I'm putting on this?

What.

Why does this actually matter? And that can kind of, like, snap us back into our body in such a powerful way. Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's shift to the conversation a little bit. To dating. You've touched on it a few times, but I feel like you've become, like, quite the dating expert recently. I even, like, saw you pop up on, like, a really big. What was it like, the way we met Instagram, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I know her. I saw your story pop up.

Oh, my God, that's so funny. Yeah, she contacted me. This is for everyone listening who doesn't know what that is. It's just an Instagram page sharing love stories, basically. Love the idea, but because I'm posting some of my love story with how I met my partner, she contacted me. You know what? She didn't even contact me. She just took it and she used it and then messaged me afterwards saying, I hope it's okay. And I was like, you know what? It's fine. Yeah, I like to help other women feel hopeful, but, yeah, that's funny that you saw that as well. But, yeah, I definitely, in my coaching and my Instagram page, which is where I'm hanging out, most have gone very deeper into the. The dating field, let's say. But I don't. I really don't identify myself as a dating coach as such, because I would say I'm quite anti dating rules or anti. Yeah, I'm very. I'm very all about context and nuance, but I definitely have been enjoying helping women to feel more hopeful during this time and to feel that they can date in more confidence and less anxious about meeting somebody. Because the truth is that if you are single and you would like to have a life partner, you will at some point have to go on a date or multiple dates. And I think that a lot of women just, there's a lot of like, negativity around dating, I would say. And it's kind of the harsh truth that if you want to meet someone, you have to go out there. Doesn't mean you have to do all the rules or you have to go on the apps or all those things. But in a way, you have to put yourself out into the, into the world. So, yeah, you are right. I have definitely been focusing more on dating and I'm happy to receive any questions on it. Hit me.

Yeah, I love it. So I actually, I was reading a, a study before we hopped on our podcast because I wanted to read a little bit about the dating stuff space and like, what's going on in that world. I feel like most, most of the people that I work with tend to either be in a relationship or like transitioning out of a relationship, but they're feeling that acceptance already in it. And it sounds like you work maybe more with people who are, have maybe ended a relationship or are single and are like just kind of like spiraling and like, what do I do with that? Kind of. And you said, you mentioned it's one of the biggest fears that comes up as well, but in the study I was reading, I thought I found this stat super interesting. I almost never bring stats to podcasts, but I was so curious what your thoughts were on it. So it said 1 in 10 women right now called dating impossible. And 1 in 4 women have declined social invitations because of their age. And I think that just like amplifies like the fear that you're talking about of just like, I don't even want to put myself out there. So I mean, one, do you have any thoughts on. Yeah, the stat.

Can you explain the second stat? What do you mean? Decline social invitations because of age?

Like there I'm not even gonna go to that party, to that event that this because. And this was a article on aging. I can link it in the show notes if anyone wants to read more about it. But it's just like whether it's the self image of like, I don't like how I'm going to look at this event or just feeling like I'm not going to fit in or also just feeling like a generalized social anxiety as they get older as well. Those were kind of the things I remember from the article at least.

Yeah. Wow. It's so interesting. I would love to read the article, I can speak for the first statistic of 1 in 10 women finding it impossible. I would think that this is. The statistic would be higher.

Yeah. That's why I was curious.

I hear a lot of complaints about dating and a lot of complaints about the current dating landscape. I can say that I was single not that long ago. It was less than three years ago that I was on the dating apps and still dating. And I know that maybe things have changed within those three years, but I would say probably not that drastically and also have knowledge from clients that dating, it isn't impossible. It's completely possible. It's not easy. It's not enjoyable all the time. It's not what many people would choose to do. Yeah. And I'd say Probably less than 1 in 10 people actually like and enjoy dating. But is it possible? Yeah, but it doesn't surprise me, like I said that people think it's not possible because of mindset around dating, because you just really don't want to do it. And I think that there's a lot of. Sorry to say it, but there's a lot of awful people on the dating apps, which I actually always say when clients say this. There's just a lot of awful people in the world. And dating apps just gives you an access to them and to more of those people in terms of, you know, if you put the same men on the dating apps in a bar in real life, you'll probably walk into the bar and like, it would still, you would be like, oh my God, these aren't people for me. In the same way that we could swipe 100 men on. On the app and they wouldn't be for you. So, yeah, I guess this is also like where my work comes in of trying to just encourage people that it doesn't have to be impossible. Even if it's hard, it can still be something that you do because you are interested in meeting a life partner. And it goes back to the manifestation that if you really are truly committed to manifesting a partner, to having that person in your life because you want to share your life with somebody or you would like to build a family or whatever that might be, there's going to be some sort of a commitment to get big, to getting there. And that commitment is going to be mindset work. Yes. Really breaking down beliefs and breaking down those blocks. And it's also going to be going out and putting yourself out there. And yeah, that's why I'm trying to be a thought leader on this, to encourage People to do it. Because at the end of the day, it's okay to want to meet somebody, but. And it's also more than okay to. To say, I don't want to date. Dating feels impossible. Dating is not for me. And then just to accept that word we were using before that, okay, then in that case, you probably won't meet someone. Maybe you will. Maybe they'll knock on your front door. Maybe you'll bump into somebody at the grocery store. Who knows? But you, you know, it's very unlikely. And even if the person knocks on your front door, you're gonna have to go out on a date with them, probably. So I guess that's my bit all over the place. Thing of what I would say about the statistic is it doesn't surprise me, but here we go. And the other one is, makes me feel really sad that 1 in 4 people would avoid social events because of aging. And again, makes me even more want to talk to women and tell them that as you grow older, you absolutely can feel better about yourself. And it is a choice. You can. I'm not just talking about the way that you look. I'm talking about the way that you show up in the world. And I can say this with. I mean, I'm probably right now in this moment of time, not feeling my best self because of all these huge changes and retrescence, which is the word for going into motherhood, and all those things that I've been dealing with. But in general, I would say in my life that I'm way more confident now to go to social events than I was when I was 28, you know, in those 10 years. So it makes me feel sad that other women wouldn't. Wouldn't be in that space. But we have work to do as coaches, me and you, to help, to help people to feel more confident and to feel more worthy.

Yeah, I found it interesting that those stats were, like, connected together in the article as well. Of, like, this idea of, like, it's impossible to date. And then it's connected to this idea of, like, also, like, I can't put myself out there. I can't go to these social events. And like, it just, it was interesting to me that those were connected, especially with, like, the rise of, of, as you said, dating apps. Too often when I am talking to people about dating in these stages of life, is this, like, yuckiness around dating apps. They feel this, like, not great energy with that. And I think you highlighted the why behind that as well. And then on the flip side it's like, but also like, I can't go out to these events. I'm, I have like, I'm feeling anxious to go, you know, to a party or whatever it is and put myself out there. And so it feels like this, like push, pull energy between the two as well.

Well, I think you've highlighted something that I think is true, which is that it's connected in that it's the way you feel about yourself. Dating apps are going to feel impossible if you don't feel good in yourself, which is linked to you will refuse an invitation to a social event if you don't feel good about yourself. And that's why I, you know, it's really easy. And I also went through a very difficult dating period. So it would be easy for me to kind of jump into the sinking with my clients and say, oh my God, it's, it's hard. It's this, it's that there's horrible people, there's losers, there's people who's going to ghost you and reject you and use you and you know, and it's easy to just say don't do it and it's awful. But you have to understand that the energy that you are putting into the way that you date or your perceptions of dating are always going to be reflected back to you. Always, always, always in the same way that the energy you put into going to a social event and meeting new people and widening your circle and dating in real life and all those things is going to be reflected back to you. And I think that's what a lot of people maybe don't understand or like they need to change. But it's having to get out of a huge comfort zone. And people don't traditionally love to get out of comfort zones if they're not forced to. So yeah, that's what I think that the thread between those two is that if you don't feel good about yourself, then things will just feel much harder.

Yeah, right. What are like two or three dating roles that you just like completely want to break or completely disagree with?

Oh, such a good question. I really, I just, I hate any dating rules. And this is like, I'm not gonna say names, but there's a very like well known dating coach who says that you should not be one with one man. She's specifically data coach women that you should basically wait until they've committed to. So ring on your finger and only then you should date one person. And Mattel, then you can date multiple people and that's like her way of basically hooking the man in. So for me, that is like, absolutely not. Like, as someone who was find it very, very difficult to date multiple people at once, I think it's a really good strategy and tactic to at the start, like when you're first seeing somebody and it's like no commitment to not delete the apps and to still be set up or go on a date with someone. But I think it's absolutely okay to. To give someone a chance and to say. And I really tried to break that thing about wasting time because there's a lot of rhetoric about wasting time in dating. That's one. The second one is the rule can go both ways. I guess it's mine is kind of the anti rule, but that people say, or lots of people think that if you go on a date with somebody and there's no spark, there's not much attraction and it's fine, it's just mediocre that you shouldn't go again, like, okay, next, you know, And I'm very much of the school of thought of, like, just go again.

Just.

You just don't know. And that really comes from my own experience dating my now husband, who we were friends for a long time before and we'd had a few false starts. And the first time I ever saw him in a romantic context, when we went on, we didn't even know if it was a date, but we went for a drink together, which is hilarious because neither of us drink, so we're both pretending, but we. I just didn't feel anything. And I was like, no, this, you know, just no. And then we became friends. And later down the line, he's become my husband. And I know that people say, oh, that's just for you, but it's not true. You hear these stories all the time. So I think that I'm a huge fan of the slow burn of letting things develop. Understanding that so sparks potentially a bad sign, not a good sign because I've had a lot of incidents dating where I would meet someone and be like, oh my God, like, I just walked into the room and it's my future husband. And then obviously get ghosted like three days later. That's two.

Yeah.

I need to think of a third one. Can I say two? I can probably think. I can think of another one if you want, but it might take me a moment.

I think I said two to three anyways. And those are two, like, super juicy ones. And I love that idea about, like, the spark can actually be a bad thing. I think that's like such an important piece here of like that initial, like burst of energy, like what is it actually telling you? And the first one you gave, like, I've seen that just out in the, like, I guess personal development space, for lack of a better word. And that one, like, it makes me eye roll for sure as someone who was with her now husband for 10 years before we got married. And so this idea of like, like, oh, it's not the same commitment or, you know, it's not a powerful relationship if you aren't married right away or within this certain timeline. Like that just like, oh, it's like I can feel it in my body right now. Yeah, yeah.

And in general, I think that that dating rule, and this is from a school of thought which is very. It's actually based on the book why Men Marry. And it's a lot about basically that women need to be chased and we need to make men chase us and we need to not give anything away. And we basically need to make sure that men know that we're not available for them and that makes them want us more. That's basically the, the whole, the whole concept of the book. And a lot of modern day dating coaches do base a lot of their content on that a lot, don't it? But yeah, yeah, there are, there is a school of thought. Yeah. Can't bear it. I cannot bear it. I do not believe it to be true. I think it's a recipe for disaster. I think if you are showing parts of yourself that aren't the truth or you're creating new parts of yourself to somebody, they're literally falling in love with a different version of you. How on earth is that going to be beneficial for both sides? How is that creating a conscious relationship? It's not. And I've actually even had a dating influencer, let's say, onto the podcast to record. And I couldn't put the episode out because, you know, I have not. It's not a viral podcast, but I have a good few thousand listeners per episode. And I was like, absolutely not. Because I don't want my listeners to hear this and think that they have to act a certain way. I was actually really gutted when we finished the episode because I'm like, yeah, you know, I don't think that that is going to help anybody meet somebody, to pretend to be someone or something you're not, because you're literally not an integrity. And I think that when you're dating, being an integrity is really important. And I just, yeah, for me, that whole chasing, let yourself be chased, you're a prize to be won. No big. No, no.

Yeah. And also, like, there's no like one singular set of rules when it comes to relationships. Like, some people stay together their entire life and decide to like, never get married. And that works like, so well for them as well. So I think this is just even highlighting, like, what's the rule you're trying to play by. And you know, is that actually working for you or is it creating more pressure in your life? Because I think, you know, to be fair, like, I think that the flip side of what we're talking about here, like someone who is operating in that, you know, manner can work for some people, but in such an extreme, I think can just also cause a lot of harm, which is kind of what we're highlighting here. Yeah.

And I'm sure that this is based on some probably dynamic of feminine masculine energy and primitive masculine needing to chase the woman. Like, it's from Cave Mondays. Like, you know, it's not. I'm not saying that there's not some truth in it, but I think that in days, in our modern day dating that it just. Yeah, I don't, I don't see how it can help. Even though, like, you're right. And it's funny what you were just wanting to pick up what you were speaking about, about like rules of like, for example, engagement and timelines. And like, for you, like, you said you were together for 10 years before you got married, you know, with my ex boyfriend. And it wasn't a good relationship at all. I was obsessed with getting engaged because it was like, we need to go through that level. We need to go to the next step. It was so important. And it was such societal conditioning of how I've been brought up. And everyone around me was. Had been together with their partner for shorter time, already married, you know, all of those things. And we eventually broke up. And I looked back at that relationship and thought, oh, why was I so obsessed with that? You know, it wasn't the only reason that we broke up. We were just not compatible. But yeah, it definitely didn't bring any more happiness to the relationship when I was so obsessed with getting engaged and he didn't want to or he wasn't sure if that was the thing that he. That was the direction of our relationship. And then it's so interesting because now Ellie, my husband, like, it was just never an issue. It was just. And I think that was because I felt secure in the relationship and it was a Bit different, but I just had learned that lesson. And then I was like, engaged. Not engaged, Married, not married. You know, we got engaged when I was 36 weeks pregnant and it was like hilarious, the story. And like, we didn't. We had like, we had a zoom wedding just to get the documents and we've not even planned a wedding yet to say. Yeah, because I don't know if it will even ever happen. But it's just so funny that shift when you let go of the need for something to be a certain way and you can just realize how much you're just victim to what society says. But the truth is like, each couple will just do whatever works for them and you can't try to force yourself into a box that was never meant for you.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I love what you've highlighted there too, around like. Okay, but if something does come alive out of pressure, whether it's an engagement or maybe like, maybe someone listening just relates to something else in their life around this. But like, you're putting so much pressure on it. Like, this has to happen. It has to happen this way. Okay, so let's say it comes alive from that place. Like a lot of times those are the things that feel like very shaky ground. And like, what if that's how you're entering into a relationship, a marriage in this case, like, how does that play out long term? Is. Is the question that comes up for me. Right?

Yeah, exactly. And I think I remember a coach saying to me at the time when I was basically really putting ultimatum and really wanting to push the relationship forward, this past relationship, saying it's okay to do that, but understand it's starting off on a rocky foundation and own that, take responsibility that there will be the consequence of that. And luckily I had the, the strength to understand because we actually did get. End up getting engaged. And then I very quickly walked away because it was like, almost like I just needed to really see that how rocky the foundation was. And the foundation wasn't rocky because of my need to be engaged. It was rocky because of a million different things. But yeah, I think that's a really true point because it just goes back to what we teach in coaching of like, all of your actions are based on. On emotions, right? So these emotions and, and the thoughts that create them are going to dictate the, the result. And if they are negative, if they are forced, pressured, coming from frustration, disappointment, resentment, all of those things, then yeah, the result, the consequence, the consequential result will not be positive.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. I'm just. I have to bring up this example because I know you'll love it. And it's very related to this. I never had a pressure to, like, be engaged or married in our relationship, except for this one window of time. And I had gone back to a job that lasted, like, four weeks, which is a story for another time. But every woman there was, like, so obsessed with getting engaged and they were shopping for engagement rings. And that is the only time I felt a pressure. And, like, started talking to Andrew about it and, like, was like, oh, why aren't we talking about this? Why aren't we doing this? And it's so fascinating, like, what our environment and our surroundings can do for pressure. And, you know, luckily I snapped out of that pretty quick. But it is just, like, so fascinating to understand, like, okay, but what else is going on in my life and, like, creating pressure that's not actually mine.

Oh, my God. I relate to that story so much because at this time that I met this ex as well, I was working as well with a. With a group of women who are obsessed with marriage, engagement, weddings. Like, the conversation around me was just that. And I think I was even single at most of the time working there. But I remember feeling like such an alien. And then I think in some way being brainwashed to. I have to do that because it was people who I was sitting with all day long and that's all they spoke about. And I think on some level it made me be like, this is how I need to live my life. If I don't live my life like this, then I won't be acceptable. I won't be. I won't be worthy in the world. Luckily, I left that job, but same. But yeah, I completely agree with you, like, who you surround yourself with. And there's that saying, like, you're the. You're. What's the saying? The. The. The five people you spend your time with will have that most effect on you. I've just completely butchered it. But you're a result of the five people you spend the most amount of time with. And totally, literally that I have really experienced that so much the more that you are with people. And that is why really nice segue here. I created my membership.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because single women are often spending time, especially when they're in their 30s and their friends are already partnered a lot of time not around other people who are in the same life stage of life as them. And that's why I found it very important to have community during this time. To have other women who are going through the same thing as you so that you cannot constantly feel behind or constantly feel like you're doing something different. Because actually you could be in a room with 99 other women who are experiencing the same thing as you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That need to fit in can be like so powerful. And you talked about in our last podcast episode, we talked a little bit more about friendships, which I'll link in the show notes for people. But you talked about like having different friend groups for different purposes in your life. And so I can see how your, your membership is, creates like such a special community for people in that phase. Tell us what one, what's the name of the membership? And then maybe just a little bit more and then we'll link it up in the show notes as well.

Oh, great. Thank you. I would really appreciate that because it's my new baby that I've been creating in 2025. It's called turning. And the name, I mean I'm turning 30 coach, but the turning name comes from actually turning point. So it's like the turning point in your 30s and this part of your life, whether that's a fresh start, whether that's something that you want to create for yourself or not, it's a time where you can basically turn things around. It's a monthly membership for women, as we know, who are in the 30s, who are feeling this feeling left behind, feeling these pressures, feeling like they're not exactly where they thought they would be, but not in like a negative, oh my God, let's all come here to complain way. But in a, okay, like I'm ready to learn the skills and the tools and the coaching that can actually help me make the most of this chapter. Because if any of you listening, come over and see, see my work on Instagram. You'll see I'm all about, you know, the single chapter is a beautiful chapter and it can be the best time in your life. And I really want to help people to own that and claim that. So we do group, monthly group coaching sessions. I have amazing guest sessions on all different topics and we have a community group. There's also curriculum. We have challenges. We just started actually today a 14 day reading challenge. So you have to we all sharing what books are reading every day. And yeah, it's just a really safe space to come and be seen and be held in those struggles of being single at this stage where most of the people around you just don't really know how to relate to you and you don't know how to relate to them. So the doors are going to be reopened. I don't know when this podcast episode is being released, but it will be in the end of September. So maybe I'll send you a link to the. To the wait list so people can sign up.

Lovely, Emma. Thank you so much. And I see all of the wins from the membership on your Instagram as well. And it's just, like, it's so cool to see. It's so cool to see just, like, such a large community of women, like, coming together and, like, putting their growth in intention. And there's just so much power in being in space with people who are navigating something similar. Like, there's something so special about group coaching and, like, hearing the questions that other people are answering and, like, are asking and then having the resonance with that. So thank you for being you and the work that you do. And also thanks for coming on the show twice. Our conversations are always so juicy.

I mean, I just came on because I wanted to see you because you hadn't actually caught up for so long. I mean, I don't know if you will intro this in the episode, but Megan was one of my first ever life coaches that I invested in back in. Wow. When was it? 2017 sounds right.

Yeah. Yeah, 17.

Yeah. So we're talking, like, seven years ago. So it's always just amazing to reconnect and. And just catch up and see you. So thank you for having me again.