Permission to Change Your Mind: Quieting the Noise in Life + Business with Kaitlyn David

Welcome to Find you'd Clarity. I'm your coach and your show host, Megan Johnston. For over a decade, I've helped women move from burnout, pressure and overthinking to clarity, confidence and ease. If you've been stuck in a cycle of self doubt or fear, this is your space to come back to you. Each episode will blend real life coaching, grounded tools and intuitive insight to help you trust yourself more, lead with your energy and take your next aligned step now. Now let's find your clarity and the life that's been waiting for you on the other side. Hey, welcome back to the show, friend. Today's conversation is such a gift, especially if you've ever felt the pressure to stick with one thing or if you've ever really struggled with the external noise of what success should look like. I'm sitting down today with Caitlin David. Caitlin is an authentic brand and marketing strategist with over 15 years of experience working with both national and personal brands. During her time at well known media outlets such as HGTV and the Wall Street Journal, she helped hundreds of brands connect with their ideal audience through storytelling. Her passion is helping founders and small business owners understand their brand personality and bring their vision to life through a marketing strategy that is a natural extension themselves. She puts the words to your thought bubble imagery to your big vision and brings clarity to the overwhelming concept of branding. Caitlyn is also a mom and a fellow human design lover and I feel like she just brings such a unique lens to building a business that feels like an authentic extension of who you are. And even if you're one of my friends who's not a business owner listening, you know, we explore so many concepts like what it is to give yourself permission to change your mind and how to quiet the noise of comparison and even how to reconnect with your inner voice, which Caitlin is a sacral generator. And she just brings such a unique flavor to that conversation. I feel like you can really feel the power of what it is for her to follow her gut in a way that I've never heard it described before. So my friend, if you've ever felt caught between doing what looks successful and doing what actually lights you up up, this episode will give you a full exhale. And before we dive in, I recently was on Caitlin's private podcast called Unfollow. We talk about that a little bit more in the episode, but after listening to this one, if you loved it and you want more and we what we really do is look at marketing through a human design lens that'll be all linked up in the show notes. All right, Enjoy the episode. Friend. Caitlin, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have this conversation with a fellow human design lover.

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to also be having the conversation.

Of course, it's always. It's always a special flavor when someone else just, like, loves the human design, like, details and things to, like, enter in through that lens. Obviously, we did your whole, like, bio and stuff before, but I'd love to hear just, like, a little bit more about your journey of, like, how you got to where you are today. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah. So I am a mom, first and foremost. I feel like that kind of trumps a lot of the other things that I do, and it's really shaped my. My business.

So.

I have two daughters. I am a brand and marketing strategist, and I really love to work specific with female entrepreneurs and helping them find aligned marketing tactics that feel like a natural extension of them and also to allow their brand personality to unfold in the way that it's meant to. But, yeah, it's taken me a bit to get here and, you know, I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about it, but I feel like it's very aligned with my chart that I had a lot of trial and error along the way. I was in marketing and media for over 15 years, working for media companies and helping, you know, national brands develop content and connect with their ideal audience and all of that. But since I left that world five years ago, I went on all kinds of a journey. I never thought I'd be where I am today, honestly. Like, I was doing low tox living and helping women detox their homes. I have a certification in mindfulness as a mindfulness and meditation teacher, life coaching. And it was like, I needed to try on all these things to kind of come back to myself and almost look at marketing and branding in a different way. Because I think that when you're working on personal brands in particular, it's not always the same as when you're looking at, like, a national brand and there's so much of you that has to come through.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that you shared that, because something that I hear often from people in this space is having this, like, pressure to find, like, the one thing and almost feeling this, like, guilt or shame around, like, having changed their mind so many times, having changed their path so many times. And I'm just curious if you could, like, speak to that and if you ever felt like, oh, my Gosh, I can't believe I'm like, changing what I'm doing again. Or if it was always just like kind of trusting the flow of everything.

No, I definitely had a very hard time with it. And I think for a long time I had a lot of shame and I wouldn't let myself change.

Ooh, right.

And I think it does happen more commonly when you go out on your own, where when you're in more of like a corporate structure, you might be feeling that pull, but you're kind of like, okay, like, this is where I started. Now I'm moving up the ladder and now I'm going to move companies to then get that promotion. And, like, I think you stay more in line, but you might be feeling that pull a little bit. I wouldn't necessarily say that I felt that pull as much when I was in kind of corporate. It was more so when I went out on my own. And actually I worked in as like a consultant in direct marketing while I was still in marketing in the media company world. And that was when that started to unfold for me because I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so much harder than I thought it was going to be. First of all. And when I launched my first my own product or service, the first time ever, I felt so. I guess the word is failure. I felt like I failed, but on whose terms? It was so odd. And I realized it was because I was making success with other people, were showing as success and not necessarily what I thought needed to be success. Especially when I'm like, so for example, I had like this challenge and four people signed up and immediately I'm like, oh, my God, this is horrible. I could have had at least 10 and so upset. But the real reason I was upset actually was because I didn't love the program I was doing. And I felt like, oh, I gotta show up every week, every day for this group and it's only four people. To have four people's attention, like, that is actually pretty awesome. But if you're not passionate about what you're doing, you're going to hate it. And so you give yourself permission to shift and move on. And I think the more you do it, the easier it becomes.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. I'm hearing like, a lot of, like, the external factors, which is, I mean, gosh, I resonate with that. I'm sure so many people are like, yes, tell me how to dissipate the external noise. Like, how do you. How do you quiet that noise? Whether it's like trying to grasp onto someone else's success or like follow someone else's path. Like, what are your kind of go to ways to do that?

Well, in social media, I will tell you that because that I feel like, is one thing that really has heightened that for people.

Noisy.

It's so noisy. And you see what everyone's doing and. Or at least what they say they're doing. Yeah. What they say they're doing at least. So one thing that I definitely started doing was I muted people. There's people that I love, that I absolutely love, but there's something in me that's getting triggered or coming up. And you know what? I don't really need to follow this content of theirs all the time. And so I would just mute it or unfollow people because you know, that's just going to be better for you for what you're trying to do. So I think that that's really important. And then also just like having a practice of like maybe it's once a month of, you know, writing down all of your ideas. What feels really powerful to you right now, what's kind of, you know, draining your energy and removing everything. That's not like a hundred percent. Hell yes right now. It doesn't mean you won't do it later. It just means like you're completely putting on a shelf so that you don't feel that weight on you anymore. Because I think that stress of just overthinking it is probably bigger than we even realize.

Yeah. I love, first of all, I love these words coming from a generator because that like, full body. Yes. Is like so potent and powerful for generators. And I love that practice of like taking the time and space to just brain dump everything that's floating around in your inner world and kind of take stock of like what's here to stay and what's not actually working anymore. Because that in itself can just really highlight the external noise. But I feel like we can just get so caught in the like, go, go, go. I gotta make the results happen.

Yeah.

And then like way far down the line, we've kind of picked up all these things that aren't working for us and then we're so deep into it that it feels like so overwhelming. I know, I've been there.

Yes. Yeah. And I think too, like when you're in your own business, it's kind of like this idea of having a business plan and financial goals and all of these things. And it's like I developed a group program and I've ran it twice and then this fall, I was kind of like, I don't know. It's not feeling that aligned. I think it will come back, but, like, maybe not right now. And I think in the past, I would have held so tightly to that, and then I would have been pushing it, and then the marketing wouldn't have gone well. I would have felt burnout. I would have felt shame. Nobody would have been coming in. Maybe I'd sign, like, one client. Because your energy, people can feel that energy. And it's like, I'll find other ways to bring in the revenue or whatever it is that are more aligned and to just, like, allow yourself to let go of it. And I think something that's come up for me more recently is actually my message, too. And it's like, well, I was saying this one thing six months ago, so I have to keep saying it.

Yeah.

But you can also evolve your message.

Yeah.

And maybe there's something else you knew that you want to talk about. Or maybe it's. You've learned something new and it's okay to say, hey, you know what? I was wrong about that. Or, like, maybe you weren't wrong about that, but you're just. You don't feel like that has to be that much of a focus anymore, and as you're growing, so are the people around you.

Yes. What a permission slip that is of, like, permission to change your mind, whether you're a business owner or, you know, in corporate, and you feel like you need to, like, stick to the thing you were saying, like you said six months ago, but it doesn't. It's not feeling right anymore. Like, permission to just let that go. Like, what an exhale that is.

Yes.

To be able to say, like, oh, I can change my mind. It can be that simple. Yeah. I love that. And I know you and I talked about in our Unfollow episode, which we'll talk about soon, but we talked about how that's been my struggle in business, as I'm like, what's my niche? I've talked about that on this podcast before, too. And I remember you were like. You were so clear in how you shared it in the show. And, like, even hearing you say that right now is also, like, what if I just decided who I was each day in business and in life. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so powerful.

Yeah. Okay, so I'm curious. We've, like, we have the external noise, and we've kind of, like, put some practices in place to, like, dissipate some of that. What about your internal Voice how Almost.

Feel like that's worse.

Tell me more.

Right. Like, most of the time, it's the pressure that we put on ourselves. And I know that I'm a generator and I think that any generators that are listening probably. I mean, I think everyone can probably relate to this, but I think that generators tend to be people pleasers because we have the capacity to like, go, go, go, do, do, do all the things. But, like, you don't really want to be doing it if it's not lighting you up and it's not fulfilling you. And you have to put those boundaries in place. So a lot of times you're actually the person that's putting the pressure on. And it's almost like the more that you continue to be that person that shows up for everyone and does everyone everything for everyone else, the more that that becomes an expectation from other people. And that was actually a big lesson of mine on a personal level a few years ago, even from, like, friendships and those types of relationships. Like, why am I always the person that's reaching out? Why am I always the one that has to make the plans? And then when I let go of that, I don't hear from this person anymore. And someone shared this and it was such a great perspective shift of like, it's almost like you have to like, train people of how in a relationship with you. It's strange. It's a strange to say that, but it is really true in a lot of ways. Because if someone is always used to you being the person that makes the plans and you're reaching out and all that, like, then they just feel like that's how the relationship works. So you kind of have to take a step back. And I think that that is in business too. But, like, it's just going back to the internal noise is just going back to why you are doing what you're doing and getting really clear on that and making sure it's not for someone else.

Yeah, Yeah. I love that I always say with generators, like, just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. You have such an immense capacity to like, hold so much, but you're not designed to hold it all.

Yeah.

So I love that you've shared that. I also love that you're one of your channels in your sacral center or, sorry, it's not your sacral center, it's your root center is like this like, strength in like the fighter and like finding like, what is right for you and like, really connecting with that internal. Like, these are the values I want to stand for. And I feel like that's just, like, shining through in all of the work that you do and, like, how you support people in. In finding their own inner voice, too.

Yeah. Oh, that's funny. I don't know if I, like, fully recognized that before, so it's, like, interesting hearing you saying that.

Yeah, yeah.

And that. Yeah, it's like, it can shift. It can change. And another example, actually, in my personal life is in my relationship with my husband. For a while, since I went out on my own, I was also very much like, stay at home mom. And then he was the person that was bringing income, working a lot. And I think that that burned us out a little bit because we were both feeling like it was a little unbalanced. Like, he felt like he was carrying the weight of, like, bringing in the money. And then I felt like I was carrying the weight of the whole household and all these things. And then you get, like, very bitter and frustrated. And so my family has wanted a dog, and I am the only one. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And so finally it came to a head this year, and I'm like, all right, fine, we'll get it. Because I'm like, I know this is going to fall on me. And so it's funny because now that we're all openly talking about it and I've been very open, like, this is not going to fall on me. And we've been figuring out delegation of when the dog comes and all this stuff, I'm actually now more open to figuring it all out and, like, supporting this animal that we're going to be bringing into our family because we worked through it together. And also, like, as a generator, it's okay to, like, change. Like, maybe this animal will bring me joy. Maybe I will be the full caretaker. And even though I said earlier that I didn't want to do that, it's okay if I want to lean into it now.

Yeah. Yeah. That reminds me of, like, sometimes it's more about timing. Like, and. And I think that comes back to, like, permission to change our mind, too. Of, like, something can be a no, and then it can be a yes. And I think we can put so much pressure on ourselves of, like, it was a no. So I have to hold to that. And in some cases. Yeah, that's very true. And that can be, like, a whole conversation in itself, but in some cases, it's like, why are you fighting to hold this? No. Is that actually what's supporting you in this season of life?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that example. Can you tell us what your. I'm always fascinated to hear from generators and manifesting generators what their gut response feels like. Because I'm a projector, I don't have my sacral defined. And I was having this conversation recently inside of my membership with the other projectors, reflectors, and manifestors who don't have their gut defined. And all of us were like, I've never really resonated with, like, go with your gut feeling. Like, that doesn't have the same flavor to me. Yeah, I'm always fascinated to hear, like, what that looks like, feels like, sounds like. And if that's a really powerful point, part of your inner voice and how you lean into things.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that before I really knew my human design or what that meant, I probably didn't notice it as much. Now I can see that I physically can feel that, or I can, you know, or I physically respond to something too, like, you know, making like, a face or, like a noise or whatever. And sometimes you're like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have. Whoops. But it's just, like, a part of, you know, who I am. And, like, when someone's saying something, I'm agreeing. I'm like, oh, yeah, huh, huh. Like, it's a lot of that. I think the yes or no questions definitely help, because I think the biggest thing actually for me is when I don't definitively know. Like, I think a lot of other people, they have this, like. I also don't have an emotional wave, so I, you know, full on sacral. So I pretty much know in the moment. And if I don't know, that's when I know that I'm like, either need more information or I'm not living in alignment because I'm starting to overthink it. And then it's like, you're. Oh. I almost want to go back to when the question was first asked or the opportunity first arose. And I think, like, what was my. Because that's probably very telling of whether I want to do this or I don't. But yeah, I mean, you. I think you definitely feel it. You kind of know. I don't. It's hard to describe, but it's like, I just know right away.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think. I think what I'm hearing in that is that it's just a very present moment process for you, which makes so much sense. And, like, I'm even looking at, like, other elements of your chart here. You have, like, a completely, completely Open emotional center. Like, that's what you're saying, like nothing activated in there. And also a completely open head and third eye center. And so there's all this, like, space for possibility, which you can either get really lost in, or you can use it in curiosity. And that sounds like the differentation for you of when you get caught and swept away and overwhelmed versus when you're just kind of like, let me feel into the process and the present moment is really what it is all about for you. Does that feel true?

Yeah, it does. And I have spent a long time figuring that out as far as those boundaries, because I have so many open centers and especially the emotional center. I think, like when I learned the term empath and someone described to me what that was, I was like, oh, my God, this is. I didn't know that that was a thing. I'm totally doing that. Like, take totally feeling other people's emotions and energy. And actually my whole house has like an emotional wave and one that doesn't. So I'm like, feeling everybody's energy. And then my husband's a manifestor as well, so I like, really feel his energy a lot. And so there's had been a lot of boundaries that had to be put into place. And when I say that, it's not like, oh, this is like a hard and fast rule or this strict thing. It was more of me just like letting go, like when he's having his feelings or acting a certain way. I think I used to think that I did something.

Yeah.

And really has nothing to do with me at all.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. I feel like that's like, so common for people with the open emotional center, where it's just like learning to depersonalize from emotions can be so supportive for your. For your boundaries that you're putting in place. And I feel like even that practice in itself is something that for me, really helps connect me back to my inner voice. Because again, it's external noise. Right. Whether it's your husband, your partner is like, whoever's emotions that you're taking on, that's external noise. And so how can I give myself permission to, like, detach from that and then come. Yeah, yeah.

But then on the flip side.

Yeah.

Especially in business.

Yeah.

I found it really helpful with clients and with marketing. So how can I tap into what people are feeling, whether it's like the collective, my audience, or individually with people, and reflect that back to them? I also have an open throat, so I've learned that it's more about reflecting, finding the Words for other people and kind of reflecting that back to them. And so when I'm like meeting with a client, I think that people very often feel seen and heard and they just like open up and sometimes like why are they telling me this? And I'm totally fine with it. But it's funny, like, oh, okay. It just seems to happen naturally. Like I'm not doing anything. It's just my energy type, I think. And so I can feel that and then I can reflect it back to them and I can have that empathy for them in those ways. But then also from like a business perspective, I can very quickly look at someone's brand or their marketing and I can tell if their energy is not aligned. Yeah, you're not showing up confidently here because this is actually not you at all. Like I don't feel you coming through this brand at all. So how can we fix that?

Yeah. Oh, I love that. What a superpower that is. How do you think other people can connect to this like inner voice, inner knowing whether it is their gut or it's something else. Like do you have any like go to strategies to like help people connect to that?

Well, I think understanding your chart and your intuition, how you receive your intuition is so important. Right. Like so you. Do you have a splenic.

No, I'm self projected.

Okay.

So yeah, yeah.

So like you know that you need to talk through it or say it out loud to kind of get to that answer. I think that that in itself is so unbelievably powerful and how can you put yourself in situations where you can utilize that? And so for me again, it's like going back to that like gut response where someone else it's going to be different. Like for you it's going to be talking now for someone else it's like whenever I'm working with someone is spleenic. It's like you need more moments where you're alone and quiet so that you make sure you don't miss that. So knowing how you're meant to make decisions and hear your intuition come in. And also something that really helped me outside of human design is just deciphering your intuition from like your ego and like how your ego's like there to keep you safe and then smaller and tell you oh no, you're good where you are like stay here and where your intuition is like usually a quicker hit and it's not like the thing that's going to be like you're overthinking and when you're feeling really good like, maybe it's when you first wake up in the morning and you do a workout or something and you're just feeling like top of the world confidence. That's probably when you're going to get that intuitive hit and that's the thing to note and really start to follow.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. That feels so tangible of just like, let me pay attention to when I feel, hear, notice cues that just feel really easeful and they don't have a lot of excess attached to them because I would say I like, resonate. And that's the same way I would describe intuition is like, when there's no excess attached to it, it's like suddenly I just know. And for me, that does generally come through my voice and for other people it might be different. I also just remembered you said like, sometimes I'll make a facial expression and I'm just like, why did I do that? And I feel like that with my V. Sometimes I'll say something and I'm like, why did it come out like that? But like, even noticing those things within yourself where you're just like, oh, that came out just like, without me even like considering. And sure, that can definitely come from ego too. But like, yeah, just noticing these different little cues that you have when they come up, how they come up and how they feel when they do. I feel like that's like such a tangible thing people can put into place here.

Totally. And I feel that for me in work, I really have to get in tune with those other things because. And I don't know if you have any insight into this, I find that 90% of the time clients that I work with do not have like a sacral. They might be like a manifesting generator, a general. But they have an emotional wave.

Yeah.

Or, you know, if they're a projector, they obviously don't have that sacral response. So, like, I can't just be like, oh, just figure it out this way. You know what I mean? Like, we have to kind of know that. And it's so helpful for me because when I'm working with someone, if I share an idea, we're building out their brand strategy, we're building out a marketing plan. It might feel so good on the call and I send them the document and then I don't really hear anything and I know, okay, well, they have an emotional wave. Let me give them their space. And then we come back to that later to say, like, how is it feeling now that you're in like more of a neutral spot? And a lot of people don't. I don't think society always allows for that time.

Oh, yes, so true. And I think that's like, so that's something I, I love about you and your work, is that you do give that space for people to be different. And there's not just like one singular path that people need to follow in their business and their marketing. And yeah, I think someone with a defined sacral, sitting with someone, especially sitting with someone who has an undefined sacral, it can be so easy to attach to the buzz of just like, oh, you're excited. So I'm excited. But then when we get into our own space, then it's like, oh, wait, I'm. I'm maybe excited about it, but I'm not excited about it in the way that I was.

Yes.

Session. And so just to like give the space, like, that feels like the answer. Like, yeah, be in your own space and see how it lands. And you don't even need to know what your human design is like. Like, just be in your own space and then find that voice that feels right for you.

Don't you feel like you have to make a decision on the spot? It's kind of like I hate when I'm on like a sales call with someone and then all of a sudden I feel this pressure at the end for them to be like, so are you interested? Like, are you want to sign up right now? Or though all that urgency that we see in marketing, which I think is starting to hopefully go away, but like the countdown clocks and like you, you know, only have until tomorrow. And it's just like, I feel like I used to let that get to me.

Yeah, a little bit.

And now it's like, that's almost repels me. I'm like, all right, this feels too pressure filled. This is like a hard no for me. And then also with the sacral thing, I've noticed, like there's mentors and stuff that I absolutely love. And so like, they'll come out with something new. And I'm like, oh my God, I want to jump on it. But then I stop myself because I'm like, do I want to do this just because I love this person or is it actually something that will help me right now? And I used to not listen to that and now I'm much more discerning with that because I'm like, I don't need to spend this money on this right now. I don't actually need this.

Yeah, I think that's such a beautiful Reflection of. Because I think about sacral. Sacral is a very in the moment present decision, which we talked about earlier and you said that's kind of how you know you're. Your intuition is there. It's like very present for you, but also there's other things happening. And so like just really noticing, like, what. What voice is this? Where is this actually coming from? And then moving into it feels like such a powerful practice for everyone. What about the why behind all of this? Like, why do you feel so passionate about entrepreneurs specifically connecting with their own gut intuition? Like, why is that so important, especially nowadays?

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's just very noisy out there and so you can easily fall into something that's really not meant for you. I think this mostly stems from women that I speak to that are so afraid of being seen or going after what they really want to create. Like, they have this passion, they have this purpose, but they're not following it and really making the impact that they could because they're so afraid of what other people will think or they're even bigger is like they're afraid to fail or that they're going to do it wrong and then they're not going to see the success that they desire. And I'm just so sick of seeing people saying, like, there's only one way to do it. And the other side of this is I find that when people do subscribe to those things and they're like, it's almost like the faster route. Like, it's like, do you want to take the longer route and hopefully be more fulfilled, or do you want to take the shortcut? And a lot of people are going to say they want to take the shortcut and that's fine. But what I've found is the people that end up taking the shortcut either become burnt out and they want to burn their business down. I think we're seeing a lot of that right now. These really successful entrepreneurs that are like, I want to burn it all down. I was wrong. I'm completely shifting. Or you keep on trying all these things and you're not seeing a result. And at the end of the day, you thought it was gonna be a shortcut, but you're just been wasting your time.

Yes, 100%. I feel like I see the. The latter happen more frequently of just like, I thought this was gonna be a shortcut, but somehow I'm on the long route and like, how did I even get here? Like, what is the car that I'm even in right now?

Totally, totally. Yeah.

And like, the simple solution is like coming back to yourself and like.

Yeah.

And then some of the practices you shared earlier of just like, what do I actually want? What's my vision? Where's my passion?

Yeah. It's like. And I think people are still on this, but definitely a couple years ago, everyone just wanted to grow their audience on Instagram. They're like, the numbers, the numbers, the numbers, the numbers. And I was in that too. And it's like, how much, how many pieces of content that can you create this week? Like, what is the trend? You know, taking a million photos, all these videos, all this content. And then what happens? Maybe you have something go viral and it's not even the people that you want as clients or that want you as, you know, a business provider. It's just like, they just so happen to like, see this piece of content. They liked it. That though it was funny, it stopped them kind of in their tracks, but maybe had nothing to even do with your business. And then. Okay, so now you have all these followers, but there. It doesn't even equate to anything.

Yeah, yeah.

Or.

And I'm curious if you see this come up too. Like, you haven't done the work with that fear of being seen and then suddenly your energy is completely shot because you're seen by all these strangers.

Yeah.

And I think a couple of things can happen when you get to that place. Either you kind of self sabotage it. It's like, I'm gonna like crawl back into my hole now. And like, that was too much. Or there. I mean, like I said, there's so many different directions you can go in. But is that something you, Is that something you see with that too?

Yeah, for sure. I've heard that from people who have grown really big followings. They said, like, I couldn't keep up with another number of messages I was getting. It was overwhelming. And then there was this pressure to show up every single day. And I was burnt out and I didn't want to be there.

Yeah.

It's not necessarily sustainable.

Yeah, so true.

And something I've come to realize recently. And I think it might change. Right. I think at this point in my business, I really love working with people one on one. And I think I used to beat up myself up of this idea of like, I don't have enough people in my audience to do like a big membership or like a group program. And I would feel like lesson. I think it's more of like my energy. I don't know if I want to let that many people into my orbit at one time. Like, I don't know that I could lead at this point in time, a program of a hundred people for, like, eight weeks. And some people can do that and show up and be on and do all that. Where I really like to have, like, a smaller group, and it's more intentional, and, like, I can pour into each person. And maybe that's because I feel so much of other people's energy. I don't know. And that could change. But it's something I recognized recently. And when I recognized myself, it was also permission to be like, it's okay. I don't have to have a business model where I have this huge group program.

Yeah, yeah, totally. I also think the, like, huge group programs can, like, feel. It can look or feel so, like, sexy. It's just like, oh, so many people. And, like, the idea of, like, passive income. But again, like, it sounds like a shortcut, but there's so much more going on behind the scenes. And I think you said at the beginning of the episode, like, we're seeing what people want us to see when it comes to social media or online marketing. They're showing us what they want us to see, and there's so much more going on behind the scenes. And, gosh, that can make us feel like. I know I've personally felt in my business, like, I couldn't get enough people in a webinar, like you were mentioning with your challenge. And I'm like, oh, like, why is it so much easier for this other person? But, like, that path isn't your path, and I think that's. That's kind of the why behind why you created Unfollow. Right. Can you tell us a little more about it? Yes.

Yeah. So Unfollow is a private podcast that I just brought into the world, and Megan was so gracious to be on as one of the people that I interviewed. And really, it's following well, including myself, 10, but nine different female entrepreneurs and having them share about misaligned marketing tactics that they've let go of and what they're doing instead. And it's not meant to be a blueprint for your business that you're copying and pasting, but it's more so a permission slip for you to find your own path. And maybe you hear something that you're really loving that someone's doing, and you take a piece of that, and then you. Maybe you take a piece of something else someone else is doing, and you combine them and you make it Your own versus just following exactly what they're doing. And yeah, it's really to inspire people to say it's okay to not do it like everyone else. And I'm going to find my way to do it, and actually I'm going to feel so much more fulfilled when I do it that way instead.

Yeah. The minute you told me about this project, I was so excited because I always say there's no, like, one singular. Right. Path. Like, all of the paths can work, and then it's about finding your path from there. So I was so excited when you shared this project and, like, it was such a joy to come on and chat with you on the show as well. Oh, good.

I loved having you on because I think a big way of figuring out what is aligned and for you is human design. And we talked a lot about that and how you have used your human design to craft your own path as well. Because I think you can listen to all of it and say, like, okay, fine, I'm not going to follow everyone else, but then how do I figure out what is for me? So that's something I really enjoy helping people do. But human design is a big piece of that.

Yeah, I know. You weave that into your work as well and helping people connect to that in their personal brand. So, like I said full circle right at the beginning. It's just such a special flavor when we. When there's two human design, like, nerds that love to go down the rabbit hole.

And you don't feel weird talking about it. Sometimes I'm like, energy and all that, and people are like, totally.

Well, you're in good company here in this corner of the Internet because everyone's like, yes, more. Well, we'll link unfollow in the show notes. Definitely subscribe, have a listen to it and come back to yourself in your marketing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Caitlin, this has been such a joy. Are there any final words or things you feel like you just need to leave everyone with today?

Oh, I don't think so. I think it's just knowing and having the confidence to go after what you want. And when you do that, the rest will follow. You might have to burn some things down. You might have to hit pause or you might have to see, like, a dip in your numbers for a hot second. But know that once you get back on that path, it will all fall into place.

Oh, I love that. Thank you so much, friend.

Thank you for having me.