11 year old discusses Kant's "What Is Enlightenment?"

Do what's supposed to— Oh yeah, well, I do want to check in on, uh, how's preparing for the tournament for the ones in July and August?

Yep, it's going great. Um, we were in— what, for the past weeks? But we were still training. Um, so now that we're back and the jet lag— it's only like 3 hours difference— is it gone? Um, on Monday we're gonna get back to it super, super early and we're gonna keep training really hard until the tournaments come.

Marvelous. Um, well, I wanted to, I'm gonna screen share and show you. I was gonna try to copy and paste, but I'm not able to get it to copy and paste. But do you see, um, the text on the screen?

Yes, I do.

Have you— so this is Immanuel Kant, 1784, What Is Enlightenment? Have you ever seen this before?

No, never.

Okay. Well, I thought we'd work through at least the first paragraph and maybe start into the second one. Do you want to read the first paragraph?

Yes. Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. Immaturity is the enab— is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when it causes lies, not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. So, period. Have courage to use your own understanding. That is the motto of enlightenment.

Got it. Well, let's pause there. So does that paragraph make sense, not make sense? How is— how hard was it?

I think it makes sense. Um, I get the immaturity part, I think, because whenever I think of immaturity, I think of being so arrogant that you're not willing to ask others for help or guidance and things like that. Um, so I, I hope I understand what that one correctly. But then enlightenment being emerging from immaturity, I think, makes sense because then you're enlightened to the fact that you're mature and you can communicate with others and, I guess, seek guidance from them. Just, that's the word that they use there.

What would you Thank you. What would you say is the overall message of the paragraph?

That enlightenment is not immaturity, it's rising from maturity. And then at the very bottom, um, I guess this is kind of paraphrasing it, but having the courage to use your own understanding.

What do you think— what does it mean to have the courage to use your own understanding?

I think not just— or when you said— when I read that, I thought of not just kind of following others and their perspectives, um, using your enlightenment and emergence from the maturity to understand them, but also having the courage to think for yourself.

And why does it take courage to think for yourself?

I mean, maybe you're surrounded by different opinions, and you're— maybe you were raised or you were taught to think or to always follow other people or follow orders, and it might be hard for you to realize that you need to think for yourself most of the time. Sometimes.

Do you think most people think for themselves or not?

I think that they might have their own ideas, but those ideas are influenced by other people. Um, I think everybody has some ideas like that, but then I think there are people in the world that maybe seem to just follow orders and be super respectful and not, not realize things that could be beneficial, like maybe, um, realizing that you don't maybe owe things to somebody, or just aren't— or need to, I guess, have the courage to use your own understanding and ideas.

Do you ever— well, I know there are different situations. On the one hand, there is Alana in a group of other students, and then there is Alana with adults. Let's start with other students. Would you say it ever takes courage on your part to express your own opinion with other students, or not at all?

Uh, well, there it depends, but sometimes if I don't know the students, then it does take courage. But if I'm comfortable with them, then not really, because I have— or I've used the courage already and I'm comfortable with it.

Well, I'm going to think through that. So it sounds like I mean, it sounds like in some sense you're safe if you know them. And so you, when you say you've already had the courage, maybe you had to test what you could say with a particular group of students. And then if, well, tell me, tell me what happens. What do you mean by already used the courage? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Well, when I said that, I thought of, say, my class last year in the beginning. Um, it was a bit scary to start talking and sharing your ideas because they were completely new, most of them. Um, but then a week or two into the year, we were all— we all used our courage and, um, are comfortable with one another and sharing ideas and having conversations. Got it.

And then in a— so suppose you're around the newest people your age. Explain why it takes courage if you're around new people your age.

I think it takes courage because they don't— or you don't know how they're going to react to your ideas. Maybe they think opposite of you, um, maybe in terms of, um, I don't know, humanities or politics. Or maybe they— or maybe you literally know nothing about them. And I don't know, for me it's always been a little difficult talking to new people like I've known them before. Um, so when I talk to new people, I do have to kind of muster up some courage and, um, you know, start talking so that later on I know them and it'll be comfortable, because I know that always happens.

So thank you that you're very articulate about this. So would you say that the fear is that they will disagree with us or they'll attack us or they won't respect us? Can you say more about what is the fear that requires— what are we overcoming when we are courageous in talking with other people? What are we overcoming?

I think that's different for a lot of people. For me personally, I overcome like maybe they won't respect me, or maybe they won't like me if I say this, because I have a tendency to want to impress everybody and want everybody to like me. I've realized over the years, um, and if that doesn't happen, then— or I'm afraid that doesn't happen when I meet new people. And so it's sometimes that restricts me, but most of the time I try to overcome that, those feelings.

And are there times when the right action is not to overcome those feelings? That is, sometimes should we conform, or should we keep our opinions hidden?

Um, I think that depends. By hidden, do you mean just not saying it at all?

Yeah.

Well, if you're talking with somebody who knows a lot more than you Or maybe somebody who thinks they're right, and you— I mean, maybe you don't, or maybe you should express your opinion a little bit, but if you express it too much, then just by saying that and it's your first meeting, that person will not like you. Um, and that's not the first priority, but there might be some situations where it's best not to open your mouth wide and talk about everything.

It sounds like you're kind of doing a sort of cost-benefit calculation. That is, what are the costs of opening, of saying what we really believe? Is that accurate?

Yeah, I think so.

In which case, what are the benefits? Why not simply, you know, accept what everybody around us is saying Why ever say what we believe?

Because there aren't always going to be people like that. But then again, it's hard to tell who's like that and who's not. So in which case, sometimes you do have to just step up and say what you think and not be afraid.

But although that makes sense that sometimes you have to, but I'm not clear on what are the benefits. Why is it beneficial? Is it beneficial for you or for somebody else? Or why not, you know, why not just accept what everybody else is saying all the time?

Because then nobody would know what you're thinking and saying all the time. Um, and to other people, your ideas may be totally, totally wrong. And to you, other people's ideas may be totally, totally wrong. That all depends on what you believe in and things like that. But if you don't talk about anything at all, then the world can— I think the world becomes one-minded, and maybe the track that it goes on once it becomes one mind or single-minded isn't the best for humanity or the world. And sometimes people need to hear other opinions. I don't think it's good for people to be surrounded with people with just their opinions because it doesn't challenge them to grow their opinions. And if they're not challenged to grow their opinions, then again, it becomes single-minded.

So I'm hearing two things, at least two things. One is it sounds like you disagreeing with other people is good for the person with whom you're disagreeing, And the second thing is, and it's good for the world at large because otherwise the world is single-minded. Is that an accurate reflection of what you're saying?

Yeah, I think so.

And what does it mean for the world to be single-minded? And why don't we want the world to be single-minded? There's one truth. Why not just have the one truth be everywhere and everybody who disagrees with that truth should keep their mouth shut?

The thing is, it might not be a truth. It might be corrupt. And if it's— or when you say a single-minded world, I think of just one government with every— everybody in the government thinks the same way and they have control over everything. And I think if they have control over everything and things don't change, then that might be bad because over time those right things might get wrong. That's kind of a bad way to explain it, but yeah, go ahead.

Have you read George Orwell's 1984?

No.

It's a famous book about this exact thing, so you might really enjoy it at this point. It's a dystopia where, yeah, there's one government that has one right answer and everybody else has to shut up or believe what the government tells them to.

What's it called?

George Orwell is the author. Orwell is the author. 1984 is the title. The numerals 1-9-8-4. Very famous. Yeah, if you read it, I'd be very interested in hearing what you thought. I want to just do the first sentence of the The second paragraph, I'll read it to— laziness and cowardice are the reasons why so great a proportion of men, long after nature has released them from alien guidance, nonetheless gladly remain in lifelong immaturity, and why it is so easy for others to establish themselves as their guardians. What does that sentence mean?

That was a lot at the beginning. I think, or lazy— laziness and cowardice, maybe, because those might be natural, natural parts of humanity, um, long after nature has released them from alien guidance. I don't really know, um, when they say alien guidance, I literally think of, um, aliens releasing it into the human minds, so that's not very helpful. But, um, nonetheless glad they remain in lifelong immaturity. Maybe when human beings have laziness and cowardice, they're stuck in long lifelong immaturity because they can't get past those qualities. Um, and why it is so easy for others to establish themselves as their guardians. Maybe, or establishing, establishing themselves as their guardians makes me think of not having anybody else or not choosing to have anybody else with you and guiding you. And you're, you know, you're there, you're your own mentor, maybe your front man or guardian parent.

I'm going to help you with one particular thing. Um, the word alien has, I think, some meanings you might not be familiar with. So I think in contemporary American English, usually we hear about aliens as like space aliens, But all alien means is kind of not from here. And so, you know, actually sometimes we call people who come into the United States illegally, we call them illegal aliens. And that doesn't mean they're space aliens. It means they are from somewhere else, not here, and they're not legal. And so here alien guidance is guidance that's not me, that is somebody from outside me. Does that help?

Yes.

Yeah, I thought it— I saw, and actually I think it's great that you realized that it sounds like most of the sentence made sense except for that usage of the word alien. And so that I had to help you with the word alien and help you realize it has other meanings. And then my sense is with that, the rest of the sentence seems mostly coherent. Is that accurate?

Well, what do you mean coherent?

That is, the pieces all fit together.

Ah, yes.

Yeah. And that's what coherence means, by the way, is the pieces fit together. You know, if, if everything in that sentence made sense, except it was talking about space aliens for no reason, your mind was probably saying, what on earth? Why are we talking about space aliens in the middle of this paragraph? And so it was incoherent because there's a piece that just did not fit in. Makes sense?

Yes.

So yeah, going back to the laziness and cowardice, we talked about courage, and cowardice is of course the opposite of courage. How about laziness? To what extent do you think people don't think for themselves due to laziness?

Do you mean thinking about themselves? Or thinking about themselves because of laziness? Well, if, I mean, if you're not thinking about yourself, Or you could be thinking about yourself and maybe be lazy, but I guess in that sense, laziness and like not having the resolve or ability to do things, overcome obstacles, or maybe just do things in life. Maybe that's why it would be maturity.

Well, it's thinking for yourself. Earlier you had interpreted the first paragraph as thinking for yourself. So you're in a group talking and you were talking about how it takes courage to say what you think. And, and so of course being cowardly is why one might not say what one thinks. But going back to the situation of being in a group, is it possible that sometimes people are just lazy and that's why they don't say what they think?

That could be true too.

Would you say you're ever lazy in that way, or that's not you?

Um, I mean, I think maybe I probably have been that way before, maybe in a conversation, or— but lazy in the thing that— or in the way that I just don't want to do it. Maybe it's not like being lazy, like, oh, I don't want to do it right now, I'll do it tomorrow. Uh, maybe it's lazy in the way that it's going to be hard, so I don't do it. Um, I hope I don't do it too much, and I don't think I do it too much. Um, but I think it's a natural part of immaturity, and people need to get over it.

Got it. It does strike me that you're not— you don't strike me as a lazy person by nature. You, you are on the scope of laziness, you're probably on the not very lazy in general. Is that true?

I think so.

Yeah. Um, and then going back to the courage, is it— does it take even more courage talking to adults who are talking about— in a group of kids? Uh, is it hard for you to express your opinion with adults, or not so much, or depends on the adults?

I think so, because in my unconscious— in the unconscious part of my brain, I'm realizing that the adults are older than me, are more experienced than me, or have more experience.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then a part of me says that they have— they probably have better opinions because they're older and have more experience. And then that part of me— or yeah, I've noticed me say that to myself over the years, and that part of me kind of restricts me from maybe participating a lot in a group of adults. Um, And I think I need to overcome that because even though I'm a kid, I think I could have helpful insights also. And not— or I should speak up. Sorry, go ahead.

Have there been situations in which you're listening to adults and you think that you, you do have an opinion and insight that they don't have and that you should share it?

Um, well, I don't think it happens. It happens sometimes when I'm listening, I don't know, maybe to my dad talk, but, um, mostly it's just conversation and not like philosophical type conversation. Um, but I think sometimes, but I don't always input that because I don't know, maybe I'm just timid. Because they're adults.

Well, I think this is all an interesting thing to think about, is when and where, yeah, you speak your mind. Would you say, um, at school, at TSC, after you get— after those first 2 weeks of school or whatever, then you're pretty comfortable and then you speak your mind like 80 to 90% of the time?

Sure, I think so.

Um, and then with adults, is it more like 10 to 20% or is it 6 60 to 70%?

Well, uh, depends with adults because TSC in a conversation, but adults, it might just be passing, um, or, you know, not really meaning anything at all. And I think if they know me and I know them, I'd be more confident because I'm comfortable around them. Um, again, if I'm not, it's going to be harder. Um, because I'm always constantly thinking about what they think of me, uh, partly and partly because I'm afraid that my opinion might not— or might not be as good as theirs. Kind of a weird way to say it, because it might not be better than theirs. It might, it might just be more true. And then I realize that maybe my opinion was wrong or should have been something else.

Would you say you're mostly comfortable expressing your opinion with me, or sometimes yes, sometimes no?

Definitely more than mostly comfortable.

Good, good, good. Of course, that's my goal, is for you to be comfortable, because I want you to think for yourself. Makes sense?

Yes.

Very cool. Well, this is delightful, and I need to hop off, so What are you going to do today?

I think I'm going to go follow my dad to the office and we're going to hang out and play and do some educational stuff.

What kind of educational stuff?

Hanging out with my brother and teaching him more long division.

Fabulous. That's super cool. All right. In which case, have a wonderful day. And until next time, take care.

Thank you. Bye.