Alana on student leaders, group dynamics, and depth in conversation

I was, I was curious as to, you were the first student in your group to lead a discussion, correct?

Yes, I led. Yes, I was.

And then since then, like 3 or 4 others or a bunch of other students have led discussions?

Yes, I'd say.

And how, how are they going? How are the student-led discussions going in general?

I think they're going great. They're bringing up some really interesting content and I'm enjoying it a lot because we lead different parts of the class, maybe in one day. So it's all a bit different.

I was going to ask, do different students have different styles of leadership?

I'm not sure. I guess we All of us sort of follow the same routine where we show our object or quote or painting or whatever we're showing, and then we ask, what is the meaning to all of our other fellow students? And then it kind of just goes on from there. They ask different questions and give people move on until their time slot is up.

Got it. And a couple weeks ago we talked about group dynamics. Do you remember talking about group dynamics?

Yes.

Would you say the group dynamics are different with different students, or different between student-led conversations and, um, guide-led conversations? In this case, Karen?

I think so. Um, If you compare one student-led part to another, it would obviously be different because of the content showed. One might be a quote and one might be a painting, so we'd have different conversations and possibly different dynamic because not everybody— or people might have more thoughts on a quote or a painting or vice versa.

How about, does it make a difference that it's an adult versus student? Do kids respond differently when kids ask questions than when Karen asks questions?

I think that there's a few kids who try to respond either way. And then there's a few students who have to be prompted to talk most of the time. Sometimes they give answers on their own, but Usually, um, if it's him and she prompts, then they speak. Um, it— I mean, it's sort of the same when a student prompts another student, but they might not give as much thought because it's not an adult.

Got it. So, I mean, it sounds like, um Well, you're dividing the students into those who talk spontaneously and those who need to be prompted. Are there any students who are a little bit more likely to talk either when an adult is asking questions or when a student is asking questions, or it really depends on whether Karen prompts them or not?

Um, well, I mean, I guess there could— I think I could think of maybe just a few students who give different responses based on whether it's a student or an adult, or they just— I don't know if it's good, or I've only have evidence for one lead conference, or maybe just a few. So it's just first thought.

Got it. Well, sometimes there's not that much of a difference, but it sounds like in this case, when at least, you Often students regard adults as having more authority. Does that make sense?

It does, yes.

And so it sounds like when Karen prompts them, they respond to her authority and are more likely to respond. But maybe when students ask them questions, other students don't perceive them as having the same authority. Is that accurate?

Yes.

Would you say that you were wondering about how much authority you had when you led a discussion?

Um, I think it had— I don't know, I wasn't thinking about that, though it did come up. Um, I had a brief thought about it, but I didn't pay attention to it much.

Of course. And one of the reasons I like to ask questions is to get people to think about things they had not thought of before. Where do you think authority comes from in a conversation?

Um, well, it could obviously be based on age. It could be based on, um, I mean, just your personality. Maybe if you're leading the conversation and you seem like not a leader but a big part of the group, um, then I would assume that most of the people would try and respond. When you ask questions because you're that big part of the group.

It's interesting you said not a leader but a big part of the group. Why did you say that?

Well, I mean, I think in a group like ours, since it's a Socratic-based conversation, yeah, I try not to think of it as leaders, um, and Karen does um, talk about that a lot. She's not a leader, she's more of a guide when it comes to giving content and conversation.

Got it, got it. Um, but so a big part of the group is a different way of saying— would you say some students are more influential in the conversation?

Yes.

What makes some students more influential?

I would say, uh, well, they contribute more, they're participating vocally. I think that if you're just listening, then you could be paying attention, but you're not really contributing anything if you're just sitting there listening. And I'd say you might not be taking as much out of the conversation as you could be. So if you're giving your thoughts just out there, they— other people are gonna see you as someone who can participate and contribute while you're learning and, you know, taking things out of the conversation.

So is influence the same as authority?

Um, I I don't think so. Influence is where you're influencing somebody. Then, I mean, you're— because authority is like maybe your position in, in this case, our group, our class. Um, and your, your influences— you're influencing someone to do something, maybe like prompting them to speak. I think those two are the same things, per se.

So obviously Karen is out an outlier because she is the adult and she does have a formal role from the school. But among the students, is it possible for a student to be influential but have less authority, or have more authority but to be less influential?

Um, I, I think it could be possible. Um, uh, if— I mean, just maybe if you're contributing and but maybe people see you as the one who always kind of maybe just, just comments on other people's contributions, then they might not see you as maybe somebody else who is always um, talking and suggesting and, um, make— or, yeah, suggesting.

Do you think that you have some influence and/or authority?

Um, I hope I have influence, but I'm not— authority, I'm not sure.

Okay, and tell me why you hope you have influence.

Uh, well, I mean, I hope I have influence on other people to talk or contribute more.

And would you say it's just quantity of contribution, or is there such a thing as quality of contribution?

It's— I think it's both. Um, quality definitely matters. It has to be on topic, um, and meaningful, I think.

So on topic makes sense. How do we know— how do we decide if something is meaningful? What makes for a contribution to be more meaningful than another one?

Well, if you're looking at a painting, you might not just want to point out every single detail. You might want to put— or you might want to talk about the meaning instead of just the paint, or instead of just every object.

It sounds like I'm looking for other words other than meaningful, but maybe some students have deeper contributions or more big picture contributions or more theoretical contributions? Do you like any of those terms?

I do. And they're all contributing to the conversation. So I think there's a balance of people who do those.

Would you say that some conversations lead the group as a whole to have a deeper understanding of either the quotation or the painting or whatever?

Yes.

Um, and would you say that you enjoy having a deeper understanding of a quotation or a poem or whatever?

Absolutely, yes, I do.

So how do we get to deeper understandings?

Well, you have to first say your thoughts, and other people might have different thoughts than you, so that firstly helps you maybe understand a bit more. If it's just a quote, then you might where you really have to think about it. What could this relate to? Could this mean— you might want to look at the words, ask other people for suggestions. That's one way you could kind of keep the conversation going while looking deeper into whatever quote or painting you're looking at.

Do you think all students have the same sense of what counts as depth? Of conversation?

Well, I'm not sure. I wouldn't think so because every student might have their own definition of depth, and they might think of it a different way.

Mhm. I think this is a really interesting topic, but I've got bacon calling me, so I'm going to let you think about depth in conversation, and I'll think about depth in conversation. And I'm going to go eat my bacon. What are you going to do today?

Um, I'm not sure. Hopefully it's been a little warmer. Um, yesterday was actually really hot. I had to not wear a jacket the whole day. Um, so hopefully we go outside, uh, play, play around a little bit.

All right, going outside and playing is good. Have a wonderful day and a wonderful week, Alana. Bye-bye.

Thank you, Michael. Bye.