Finishing Pride and Prejudice

So we're done with Pride and Prejudice. I'm very curious, what did you like best?

Okay, well, there's a lot, but I really like how it ended. I'm glad— I knew everything would work out that way, for the record. Um, so at the very— or at where I started reading last, I think I was at like chapter 50 or something. Um, Lydia— we found out that Lydia was getting married, so it like kind of erase the scandal because they're actually getting married. Um, but Wickham was really only doing it for money, but that's okay because they're still married and it's okay for the family, right?

Yep.

Um, and she also seems to really love him, which I don't, I don't think it goes around the other way.

But do you think that that's going to turn out well in the end?

I, I think, I think so. Um, I think it did too.

It was okay. I would be a little bit concerned that Wickham perhaps down the road won't be a very good husband, but I'm glad you're optimistic. Well, just because he doesn't seem like a good human being, a good person, a good man.

But we didn't know that a little while ago.

Okay. So yeah, well, how about, what do you make of the way in which Elizabeth and Darcy finally kind of sort of got to the point where they were getting married. You know, there's that chapter when they're on the walk and Elizabeth kind of confronts him and all that. What do you make of that whole sequence?

That was interesting. But before that, I think the Bennets host Darcy and Bingley to like a dinner party along with some of the other neighbors or whatever.

Yeah.

I know it was like they were going to be okay in the end, but I thought it was weird how Um, in the beginning of that scene, um, Darcy chose to like not talk to her and sit away from her, and I was like, oh no, what's gonna happen, right? What's he mad about now? Um, Jane and Bingley's engagement kind of erased the tension from that scene or lifted the focus away from Elizabeth and Darcy, which was fine. Maybe that was the purpose.

Yeah.

Um, and then after that, um, I forget if it's at the Bennets' house or at some other location, which I forgot But they do go on that walk and they're like reminiscing, or after they get engaged officially, they were reminiscing about like how they met, what made you fall in love with me. It was very romantic. I liked it. I enjoyed it.

So what do you make of the fact, or Elizabeth's claim, that in part Darcy liked how impudent she was? Do you think that is part of what charmed him, was her impudence?

Yes, but before I comment any further, can you please tell me what impudence means? Because I'm not entirely sure.

Yeah, kind of has an attitude, you know, is, you know, not quite aggressive. That's a bit much. But, you know, she's not— she's always kind of mouthy and negative. She's snippety with him, you know.

Yeah.

She's not kind of warm and lovey-dovey. And I guess, you know, one view, and actually this gets to something which for me is sort of interesting for gender roles in history, that, you know, sometimes you'll read about how, you know, back in the old days women didn't have any power or anything. And, you know, and they were completely controlled by men. But I would say it's fair to say that Elizabeth is at no point controlled by either Darcy or her father. Is that a fair assessment?

Yeah, I think so. I'm not sure if it's like that for all the other families, but for them it's like that, yes.

Yeah, well, and to some extent, I think people love to read Jane Austen today because Elizabeth is so independent. And you remember, I'm skipping around, I know you want to go sequentially a little bit, but you know, when Darcy's aunt comes and tries to basically tell Elizabeth, you know, shut up and stay in your place, don't marry my nephew. You know, one, I could imagine a different kind of novel where the author would, oh, and happily, I forget the aunt's name, but happily, you know, Elizabeth stayed in her place and did not break the social order. Where, as of course, I think one of the highlights is Elizabeth, uh, being impudent. Actually, I think, um, Elizabeth's, uh, almost rude— well, I don't know, would you say that Elizabeth was rude to Darcy's aunt or not quite?

Well, Darcy's aunt was kind of rude to Elizabeth, so I mean, you could go both ways, but I think that Darcy's aunt was more rude to Elizabeth than Elizabeth was to her.

And because, I mean, and of course Darcy's aunt was much higher status than Elizabeth. Would you say that even though Darcy's aunt has higher status than Elizabeth, that because Darcy's aunt was rude to Elizabeth, Elizabeth had a right to be, again, I don't know if we want to call it rude or mouthy or, you know, impudent is a great word, back to Darcy's aunt?

I don't think it was correct. Then, um, I don't think that it would have been socially accepted if she had like confronted her in like a large room full of people since she was so— uh, since the aunt was higher class than her. But since they were alone, there wasn't really any talk of that because they were alone. Um, but realistically, yes, I think the aunt would have had a bigger argument as, "You're so low class, stop talking to me," kind of. But there wasn't, and it was okay, I think, because— or that happened because of Elizabeth's character, and also because at that point she was kind of in love with Darcy, so there was nothing that can stop them now.

Got it. So, um, you would— it sounds like part of your reading, this is totally legitimate, is that because Elizabeth was in love with Darcy, even if it was rude to Darcy's aunt, she's not going to shut up and do as she's told, correct?

That's just her character, I think.

Got it. Just to kind of skip, you know, to your own experience, have you ever been in a situation where you felt as if it was rude or inappropriate for you to say what's actually on your mind? And if so, did you shut up or did you go ahead and say what's on your mind? How does that relate to your own life?

Uh, I, I'm not sure if I can relate to being in that kind of situation very much just because, uh, I have very agreeable friends and all the adults I know are very nice and don't think too low of me.

I got it.

They don't have any reason to be rude to me, but I mean, I'm sure there will be and I will not back down.

Got it. Well, I was going to say, you mentioned Elizabeth's character, and so I'm wondering, do you think that you're a little bit like Elizabeth? Of the 5 sisters, of the 5 daughters, which of the 5 do you think you're most similar to personality-wise, character-wise?

Overall, probably not Elizabeth because she is more, uh, impudent than I am. I think I'm more agreeable and I don't like to fight too much.

Um, maybe Jane.

Yeah, I think so, because obviously not Lydia. And then I don't really know a lot about the other two.

There wasn't a lot of, you know, the other— got it. Um, do you think that Jane would have stood up to Darcy's aunt the way Elizabeth did?

I'm not too sure. She seems less confrontational.

Got it. Well, I'm a little bit curious again Um, you know, I don't want to kind of extend too far, uh, but, you know, insofar as you are a fierce fighter in martial arts, but you acknowledge that you're agreeable personality-wise, um, do you think there are situations, um, where you would be a kind of a fierce fighter rather than agreeable in kind of social situations?

Yeah, for sure. Um, in that specific situation where someone was like being rude to me about something like that, I would have stood up for myself for sure. But in other not too important situations, I might be the peacemaker instead of the arguer, I think. But in most circumstances, I would— I'm definitely gonna stand up for myself.

Got it. Um, and then out of curiosity, um, when you are fierce on the mat, you kind of have to let go of your agreeableness? Is it kind of a different Ilana that goes out and fights? How do you reconcile your natural agreeableness, so to speak, with your— again, I've seen you on the mat, you're very fierce. So is it like a persona you take on, or is it kind of the inner Ilana, or what's the relationship between Ilana the agreeable and Ilana the fighter?

Um, Ilana the fighter takes— or, um, when I go on the mat, Ilana the fighter does not like to lose.

So Got it.

She will do most, most things to not lose.

Got it.

That's the main thing.

Going back to your statement that if you were in Elizabeth's state, if somebody tried to do to you what Darcy's aunt tried to do, you would stand up. It sounds as if although you are by nature agreeable, um, if there's something really important, you would fight. Is that correct?

Yeah, for sure. And I would only— I guess when I said I was more agreeable, it's than Elizabeth, I meant that, um, AI wouldn't be so outwardly rude to Darcy, like just in the beginning chapter. That would be more passive-aggressive.

Um, got it.

And, uh, yeah, that's basically what I meant.

And she can be pretty rude for sure. I would say borderline shockingly rude from time to time. Uh, would you say that Elizabeth and Darcy respect each other?

Now they do, but before they did not.

Do you think that their— and of course there's a whole sequence, we've talked some about this, of how they went from the beginning to the end— but do you think that their growing respect for each other is part of why they love each other now?

Yes, I think so. And I think that ever since Darcy realized that he was sort of in love with Elizabeth, he respected her, but she didn't to him because of her reasons. Um, but once she saw that he was misguided and/or trying to help and/or actually cool and has a big house and lots of money, she was like, okay, I respect him. I think—

do you respect her less for, um, the house being such a factor in her change in decision?

Not really, because that was standard at that time. Like, oh, you gotta marry him. Respectable and wealthy man, so I can't really blame her. But yeah, I don't blame her.

Do you think that, um, if Mr. Collins had lived in Pemberley, she would have gone for Mr. Collins?

No, I don't think that would have changed anything.

And why not?

I don't— I think Elizabeth was more non-traditional, and she wouldn't have married someone if she didn't actually love him. So she did not love Mr. Collins, um, even though he didn't have like a— or even if he did have like a grand house like Pemberley, I don't think she would have. Her parents probably would have pushed for it more, but I don't think she would have.

And what, what would you say is it that made her respect Darcy? How did she, how did she come to respect him, or why does she respect him ultimately?

I think that's— it's because of a mix of, um, his mistaken but actions with Bingley and Jane. Um, oh, and also he funded Lydia's wedding with Wickham. Small note. Apparently it was because of his love for Elizabeth, so he wanted to support her family. Something that could have made her respect him more. But little things like that. Also, once she got over her grudge and her madness, I think she realized that he's actually a pretty cool guy overall.

Um, do you think that they will live happily ever after?

I, I mean, I think so. Uh, is there another book or something? Because I'd love to read it, but I think so, yeah.

Well, not specifically about them. Of course, Jane Austen has other novels and we can go on to another one. But I would say I have much higher expectations that Darcy and Elizabeth will be happy than Lydia and Wickham.

Oh yeah, for sure.

Okay. And, you know, in some ways I would say Jane and Bingley almost feel like fillers. That is, You know, you know what I mean? It's sort of a side plot and they're both nice and both decent, but, you know, kind of Lydia is the outrageous one and, you know, Elizabeth is the, definitely the protagonist of the story. Um, yeah, but cool. Yeah, no, it sounds like you enjoyed reading it.

Yes, that was awesome. I loved it.

Good. Do you want to read another Jane Austen novel?

And yes, I would. Totally love that.

Yes. Okay, uh, the next one, you know, Jane Austen has several and they're all excellent, but I think Emma is the next one. Uh, it's, you know, Pride and Prejudice and Emma are usually the two most popular of her novels. Um, so yeah, we can do Emma and it will be fun. It is. Uh, and I think knowing, again, it was slow in the beginning, but knowing that things pick up will help you get kind of through the slow part. I want to check in on how difficult was the reading for you.

It was a little difficult because, um, of two main things. One, there was a lot of— actually, three. One, there was lots of description, which is awesome. I love that. Two, there were lots of names, um, countries— or not countries, uh, cities, districts. Characters, um, manors and houses. And, um, I got some of them confused a bit as Jane Austen uses it a little differently than I would. And I don't use Mr. and Mrs. a lot just because I, um, my public school was a little different, so I never actually got used to saying that. Um, so different but awesome. Um, I don't know if I said 2 or 3, but those are the main things.

Got it. But how about the long sentences? There are a lot of long— in general, English prose has gotten easier, but long complex sentences and unfamiliar vocabulary, how are those for you?

Good. I had to look up some words like— if you didn't— oh, I didn't look that up because you told me, but there were others that I looked up so I could understand it better. And then the longer sentences were okay. I just had to reread them a couple times. Understand.

Yeah, and in general, I read very quickly, but there are a few sentences I had to go back and reread because, like, now what? Because they were complex. Um, yeah, just in terms of words, uh, do you— how interested are you in words and vocabulary?

I mean, really interested. I mean, I'd love to grow my vocabulary more.

Good. Highly recommend looking up words, and you can kind of guess from context or pick up from context. So if you're in a hurry or if it's just so interesting, I understand kind of not pausing to look up words, but I do encourage everybody to look up words and, um, you know, dig into it and become kind of a word geek and, you know, look up the etymologies and kind of enjoy— and I would say love— to love words. Uh, by the way, English has the largest vocabulary of any language in the world, and so as English speakers, we have more words to learn and master. But I think quite a large margin, and part of that is English has kind of absorbed so many words from so many different languages. You know, it's kind of a— we've got a Germanic foundation, and then in come the French. So, you know, the French conquered, or the Normans technically conquered England for a while. It's kind of a Francophone, or French, you know, on top of the English. That's why, you know, my wife speaks French, and she knows a lot of the fancy English words because many fancy English words were used by their aristocracy. Um, and so kind of the basic words are Germanic, but the fancier words are French. And then, you know, England was a global empire as well. So they absorbed lots of words. But yeah, I would say definitely look up words. And, um, do you need me to find, or are you gonna, did you have a hard copy or did you read, uh, Pride and Prejudice online?

Um, I read the first part online, but for Christmas I got a big 4-novel Jane Austen compilation. So I think I should do them, like all of them.

Yeah, in which case you'll definitely have Emma. Um, I was reading it online, but I, I really like hard copy books better because I spend so much time online and so forth. So cool. Um, tell me about your competition today.

Oh, um, I'm here for my brother. Sadly, I got injured and I'm out for a couple weeks.

God, I hope— apparently not a very bad injury, correct?

Um, no, uh, something about either cartilage or tendon in my wrist. It'll be okay.

Okay, good. All right, in which case, good luck to your brother. Um, uh, and we will dive into Emma next time. Um, it seems like the last couple weeks we were doing 10 or 20 chapters. Is 10 or 20 chapters a week good?

Yes, that's, that's awesome.

Let's, let's say 10 chapters because I think especially going into it, we can be a little bit slower. So, uh, we'll do 10 chapters of Emma for next week. Have a great week. Yeah.

Thank you. You too.