A facilitator asks eight-year-old Ethan what makes something a song. They test his thinking with everyday sounds: bird chirps, car engines, dishwashers, blenders. Ethan decides some are "kind of a song" and others aren't, working out what counts as music versus just noise.
Good morning, Ethan. Hello.
Hello.
How are you?
Good. How are you?
I'm well, thank you. It looks like you have a friend.
Yeah, it's one of my stuffed animals.
Does he or she have a name?
Daisy. We used to— we had, um, we had a dog who was a beagle, but she died.
Oh, that was sad. Was it sad?
Yeah. And then we had another dog and she died.
Oh my gosh. You've had two dogs who died?
Yeah, but at least we have their collars still.
Good, good, good, good. So Daisy is one of your stuffed animals?
Yeah.
Do you know any songs? There's a song about Daisy. Do you know any songs about Daisy?
No, I don't.
It goes something like, Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer true. You've never heard that?
Oh yeah, I have one on the album me and mom listen to.
You heard that song before?
Yeah, I have.
Oh, okay.
Me and mom.
So I was wondering, what is a song?
Uh, well, it's something that plays and you listen to it.
A song is something that plays and you listen to it. So, does that mean if you watch a video, is that the same as a song? Because you play a video and you listen to it, right?
Yes, that is kind of the same as a song.
It is the same as the song?
Well, kind of.
So a video, what kind of videos do you watch?
Oh, I watch music videos. Those, those are like songs where you can watch them while they're playing.
I see. Do you ever watch videos without any music?
Oh yeah, I do a lot.
Okay, so, you know, I can see how a music video would be like a song. But do you think a video without music is like a song?
Video without music is like a song. Guess so.
So if we watched a video about how to, um, how to cook an egg, would that be a song?
Could be, but it could also just be a video.
So what would make a video about cooking an egg into a song?
You could just make up the song.
I guess part of what it is, is a song is a kind of music, is that right?
Yeah.
So maybe we should figure out what is music and what's not music. Are you and I making music right now?
No, we aren't.
So what would make something into music? Um, do you know music when you hear it?
Yeah.
So is everything music?
No, not everything.
How about birds? Sometimes people say that birds sing. Do you think that birds sing?
Um, well, they just say that because they chirp and they kind of sing a little song while they chirp.
But is bird chirping a song? Do you think that that's accurate to call bird chirping a song, or do you think bird chirping is not really a song?
Birds jumping isn't really a song.
So you think that's just a case where we make a mistake? Is it a mistake to call birds, to say birds sing?
Yeah, it is.
Okay, okay. Let's see, what else might be a song? How about when the engine starts on a car? If you turn on a car and the engine starts, is that a song?
Lemme see.
You know, you turn on the key and it goes vroom. Is that a song?
That's kind of a song.
Okay, so an engine starting is kind of a song.
Yeah, kind of.
How about, do you have a dishwasher at home that makes noise when it's going?
It's kind of, it's really quiet.
But it is, does it make a song when it's going?
Uh, just like a car, kind of.
Like a car? So cars and dishwasher are sort of kind of songs. Would you say they're closer to songs than bird chirping?
Way closer.
Way closer. Okay. How about, let's see, if somebody calls out your name, if your parents say, "Ethan!" Is that a song?
No, that's just them saying my name.
Okay, all right, well, do you like songs?
Yes.
Do you like music in general?
Yeah.
Do you like sounds like engines starting and dishwashers running?
Kind of.
Okay.
Kind of loud.
Do you like the sound of birds chirping?
Guess so.
Okay. All right, do you like the sound of just ordinary talking or ordinary talking is not especially interesting as a sound?
It's— well, not really, not really a song.
Okay, okay. Well, it's interesting to me that you think of engines and dishwashers as kind of a song. That's interesting. How about a blender? You know what a blender sounds like? You go— when— you know what a blender is?
Yeah, that's what a king's got. Um, stirs up. Yeah, stirs things up.
So is that like a song, that sound?
No, mostly this sounds like a drone in the ground.
Okay, so that one's not a song. Okay, okay, well, um, I am interested in how you figure out what's, what's what's a song and what's music, and that's interesting. I actually am a little bit more sympathetic to birds singing being a song, so, because sometimes birds do like doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. I am making a sound terribly, but does it make sense that a few birds make sounds that are a little bit more song-like?
Yes.
Okay, so at least I'm okay with calling those bird songs. But I see why just regular chirping is not really a song. That makes sense. Okay, what are you going to do today?
Uh, hang out.
All right. Well, I'm going to let you go. Have a great day hanging out and maybe talk next week. Okay? Bye-bye.
