An 8-year-old named Marwa explores the difference between thoughts and words with a facilitator. She discovers that thoughts are internal while speech is external, and that sometimes thoughts stay unspoken, like hoping for a toy without mentioning it.
Um, let's go ahead and talk about the difference between thought and speech. What would you say is the difference between thought on the one hand and speech on the other? Are they the same or are they different?
They're different.
How are they different? Can you explain?
Because like—
go ahead.
Thought is like what's in your mind.
And the thoughts within your mind. What's speech?
Speech is like when you're talking.
Okay. And is there a relationship between thought and speech? Did you hear me, Marwa?
Yeah.
How would you explain— is there a relationship between thought and speech?
No.
No relationship at all?
No.
So you have thoughts in your head and you have words, but they're not related. No. So do— how are we— I guess I'm, I'm thinking if I ask you a question, does your mind understand the question?
Yes.
Okay, and then when you say the word yes, did you have a yes in your mind first, or is the yes in your words unrelated to what's going on?
Yes, I had the yes in my mind.
Okay, if you had a yes in your mind and then you used the word yes, I might have thought there's a connection between the yes and your thought and the yes in your word. Does that make sense?
Maybe.
Okay. So that's why I think some people believe there is a relationship between the ideas in your head and the words in your mouth. So let's try another example. If I ask you if you have a dog, do you have a dog?
Yes.
Okay. So would you say that your mind understood that question?
Yes.
And then your words, yes, come our speech, right?
Yes.
That makes me think again that there's a relationship between ideas in your mind and the words that come out. So my— I guess I usually think, at least some of the time, maybe not all of the time, But some of the time, thoughts are related to words. Would you agree that at least some of the time thoughts are related to words?
Yeah.
Okay, that's what I thought. Are there some times when thoughts and words are not related?
Yes.
What are some examples of that?
Like when you think, it doesn't come out to be words. Sometimes you just think, like you think you get a toy, like me, I'm thinking I might get a toy, and it has never come out since.
Ah, that's a great example. So it sounds like we have ideas in our head that sometimes don't come out as words. Is that— does that happen a lot or a little bit?
Maybe.
Maybe a lot or maybe a little bit? Which one?
A little bit.
Okay, so would you say that, um, you say most of what you think or you say just a little bit of what you think?
Just a little bit.
Okay. Is it possible— I'm going to go a different direction— is it possible that you can say words but have no thoughts in your head, or do you— would you say anytime you speak words there are always some thoughts in your head?
Always some thoughts in your head.
Okay, that's what I would think in general. There might be some exceptions. How about if you're laughing? If you're laughing, are there thoughts in your head necessarily, or sometimes yes, sometimes no?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Okay, does laughing count as speaking or not? I didn't hear you. Are you speaking? I can't— oh, you're muted, you're muted. Can you unmute? Go ahead, now speak.
Can you hear me?
I can't hear you. I can hear you now. You were muted for a little bit. So what— Go ahead.
My MacBook isn't working out well.
I see. So we'll keep it short, but I was asking, does laughing count as speech?
No, no.
Okay, um, okay, well, that's why I was asking, you know, maybe you're right that always words have thoughts attached. That might be right, that might be right. Um, how about if you were crying, or maybe not you, maybe suppose a baby, when a little kid is crying, the little kid is saying, no, no, no, no, no. Does that mean like the baby doesn't want to go to bed or something, or the little kid doesn't want to go to bed? Do you think that they are thinking in their mind? No, or not necessarily?
Not necessarily.
Okay. Um, are you interested in the relationship between thought and words, or does it seem kind of like a weird topic?
I am.
You are. Tell me what's interesting about the relationship between thought and words. Can you say why it's interesting?
Uh, hello?
Hello, can you hear me?
Yes.
I was asking why is the relationship between thought and words interesting?
Because your thoughts, after your thoughts, thoughts first they become, first you, before you speak, your thought, you have thoughts in your mind and then you speak. So thoughts are related to speech.
Is it— do you like thinking about what's going on inside your head?
Yeah.
Okay, well, I like to keep these short, and next week we'll probably talk to Alana and Sankara about this, and then the three of us— it's great that you can think about it first without them, and then when they come in, the three of you can think about it. You raised your hand. Is there something else you want to say?
Just want to say, how come Sankara and Elena were not here today?
So with Alana, she had a jiu-jitsu meet. Do you know what jiu-jitsu is?
No.
It's a kind of martial art like karate. Do you know about martial arts?
Yes.
Okay, so jiu-jitsu is a kind of martial art. Alana has been doing it since she was little, and she has a tournament today. I think she's very good. I don't know if she'll win the tournament, but she'll probably do well. So that's why Alana is not here. And I'm not sure about Sankara. Usually he shows up, but maybe he and his family are busy doing something. Okay. Okay, but yeah, since this is just your second time Uh, does this— is it okay to think about ideas like this?
Yeah.
Do you like it better when Alana and Sankara are here? Okay, in which case, um, it's great to talk to you one-on-one a little bit, Marwa, uh, Marwa, and, uh, I hope you have a wonderful week. And how about next week we meet up again with Alana and Sankara? Sound good? All right, have a good week, Marwa. Say hi to your mom.
Bye.
