Loving your child's mind: What is a myth?

How are you today, Sankara?

Good.

And I assume you remember Alana?

Yeah.

Alana, you remember?

Yes, I do.

Do you want to say hi back, Alana?

Hi.

Good, good. Well, um, Thanks both for joining me today. What I'm thinking about— I was actually— so Alana, you and I talked about prophecy a couple of weeks ago because you were reading a book about prophecy, and in that conversation you mentioned the word myth. And so I want to check in and I'll follow up on that conversation, but first I'm going to check with Sankara. Have you ever heard the word myth, Sankara?

Yep.

So what— we'll start with you. What do you think a myth is? Can you explain what a myth is?

Something that may or may not be true that people believe in.

Okay, something that may or may not be true that people believe in. That's a great start. Um, Alana, what do you think a myth is?

Um, for me, kind of like Sankara, it's just like a story that is usually kind of isn't real, like maybe someone made it up and other people believe it. So go ahead, it might be true.

It might be true?

No, because maybe, um, like for me, myths are always kind of old, like old stories, so we don't actually know if they're real or not.

I see, you think it has to be an old story. Sankara, do you think a myth needs to be an old story or can it be a new story?

It can be a new story.

So Harry Potter wasn't written that long ago. Do you think Harry Potter is a myth?

For me, that kind of seems more like a story, not a myth.

Can you say why?

Usually myths for me are mostly about cultures or like religion, like Greek or Roman or stuff like— or Christian or something like that. Harry Potter is basically just wizards, and unlike fantasy or anything like that, kind of seems to me like a story.

What do you think, Sankara? Do you think Harry Potter is myth or not?

Um, I, I don't think it's a myth because, um, like Alana said, um, it's a story more than a myth.

So I'm trying to figure out how we know if something's a myth versus a story, and Alana said old, but so are there any examples of new myths?

There's a myth, or I think it's a myth, that there's a Planet Nine, and it's not Pluto, it's another planet, and they think it's a parallel solar star, I mean solar black hole, which is when a star decays. So yeah, I think that's a myth, that kind of thing.

Okay, so, so maybe there's something in space, and is it real or is it not real or we don't know, Sankara, or is that part of what makes it maybe a myth?

We don't know.

So what do you think, Ilana? Do you think a Planet 9 that may or may not exist could be a myth?

Um, yeah, because we, like, like Sankara said, like, we don't actually know if it's real or not, so maybe it could be, or maybe we could say it as a myth, and, but it's not a story either, it's just like a thing that we don't know if it's true or not.

So, um, it's just, I'm thinking there are lots of things we don't know that are true or not, um, I don't know if there is a mouse in my backyard right now. Is that a myth?

Um, for me, that's probably just you just thinking about something. I don't think that's a myth. That's probably just you thinking about something.

What do you think, Sankara? Is me wondering if there's a mouse in my backyard, is that a myth or not a myth?

Because myths have— I think my friend said myths have to be something famous or something, but, um, I don't think a mouse in the backyard is not— is a myth.

Yeah.

Okay, so it has to be famous or something. So I had not heard about this Planet Nine, but it sounds like, Sankara, you think quite a few people have heard about that Planet Nine thing. And that's why it might be a myth? Okay, I'm trying to think of other things. So, um, let's see here. Have you guys ever heard of the Bermuda Triangle?

I think so.

In the sea?

Yeah, in the sea. Does anybody know what the Bermuda Triangle is, or is supposed to be?

I think it's a triangle of ocean I don't know.

Yeah, you both jumped in at the same time. Go ahead, Sankara, give us your version.

So basically it's just part of the ocean where planes fly over, they get lost of signal, where ships go and they always sink, planes always crash. They think it's got some kind of thing, a chemical thing there. So yeah.

Yeah, and so Ilana, you're right, it is a triangle over the ocean, and Sankara's right as well that there is people— some people believe that planes going— planes and ships get lost there, just like Sankara said. So insofar as that's something that is kind of famous, and I mentioned it, and you kind of heard of it, do you think that's a myth or is that not a myth? Is the Bermuda Triangle a myth or not a myth?

Um, its power or just it being there? Because I think it's there.

Okay, so if you think it's real, then does that make it not a myth, Alana?

Maybe, but I really don't have an opinion on it. But if like people have heard about it and then maybe it— and it just keeps happening over and over again, planes crash um, like Sankara said, maybe it could be a coincidence or maybe it actually has something. So maybe it's a myth or it's not. I don't really know.

What do you think, Sankara? Do you think the Bermuda Triangle is a myth or not a myth?

I think the Bermuda Triangle is not a myth. It's not a myth because, um, it's there. And, um, but, um, like I think a myth has to be something that people, people today have never seen or never gone to.

I see. So if I understand you correctly, Sankara, the Pluto— not the Pluto, the Planet Nine thing can be a myth because we really don't know, but Bermuda Triangle can't be a myth because it's a place that's on Earth. Is that your distinction?

Because it— they The— there's a place in Earth, uh, no, because if there's a place in Earth that we don't know, and but people have been thinking about it, but that could be a myth. But if you've been there, um, I, I don't think it's a myth anymore. We can prove that it's real.

I see. So you're saying once we've proven that something's real, no, it can't be a myth anymore? What do you think about that, Alana? If we can prove something's real, it is no longer a myth?

Um, that would make sense because, yeah, because most of the myths, like old myths or new myths, uh, most of— some people think it's not real. So if everybody knows that it's real, maybe it's not.

So, um, have, uh, both of you heard of, you know, um there's a Christian biblical story about Noah and the ark, and, um, you know that story, Ilana?

I do.

Do you know that story, Sankara? But Noah and the ark and all the animals? Um, so do you think that— is that potentially a myth or not a myth, or how would we know?

Maybe, maybe if we find someone that knows all the information from back then. Way back then. Maybe we could ask them, or him or her.

And would that make it a myth or not a myth?

Um, like, maybe— I really don't know because they would maybe tell us if it was true or not, but I don't really know what the answer is.

How about you, Sankara? Do you think that that's a myth or not a myth, or how would we know?

I think that's a myth because, um, We've never— we never saw the people today, never actually saw that ship going, going to the water, so we don't know if it actually happened or not.

Okay, so my understanding is that, um, you know, archaeologists and various other scientists have found out that in that part of the world there was a really big flood thousands of years ago, very long time ago. If there was, if we now know through science that there was a flood then, does that make the whole story of Noah and the Ark no longer a myth, or is it still a myth, or how do we know?

I, well, you don't really have any proof that the ship was there, but maybe you have proof that the flood was there, so you never really know.

Would you make the same distinction, Sankara, that we might know about the flood but we wouldn't know about the ship?

Um, yeah, because there's no evidence that any ship, um, was in the water, because most times if there's a ship in the water and it stops in the middle of land and it decays, then Um, there's most likely a lot of stuff left behind, so if it was real, then we would have found out all the pieces or something.

Got it, got it. Um, how about, uh, do you guys know what, what, you know, like in Tolkien there are dwarfs, dwarves, and there are, um, in some old stories there are trolls. Have you guys seen either dwarves like in Tolkien or trolls like in other stories? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Like if we've seen them here?

No, no, just to justify it. If you know Tolkien, you probably remember the dwarves, right?

Uh, what's Tolkien?

So the Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit.

I watched a little bit of Lord of the Rings and that was a few years back.

Okay, well, I want to hear, Sankara, do you know The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit, either one?

Uh, okay, but my friends have been talking about it at school. Okay, planning— I'm planning to read all of them.

I highly recommend them, I think they're great. Tolkien is the author, by the way. Um, but there are characters in those that are dwarves. Do you remember the dwarves when you saw Was it Lord of the Rings, Alana?

Um, no, I don't.

Okay, no problem. A few years ago, I know it's hard to remember some things. How about trolls? Have you ever heard of a troll?

Different kinds of trolls, yes.

Like, what, what is a troll?

Um, in most myths or stories, they're usually big, well, big clumpy creatures that Mostly in myths or stories they describe it as kind of green, big. Yeah.

Have you heard of trolls, Sankara?

Yeah.

Does— is your impression similar to Alana's, or do you have a different impression of what a troll is?

Um, I think a troll is a big thing, and when I was small, It's said that a troll can like change their body and like become other people and duplicate themselves and make them like look prettier, something.

Okay, do you guys think that trolls are mythical or trolls not mythical?

I think that trolls are mythical.

What do you think, Sankara?

I think that trolls are mythical too.

And what, what makes them mythical?

Maybe it's because we haven't found any proof that they were real, like we haven't found any bones or anything like that.

Okay, what do you think, Sankara? Is that a reason to regard trolls as mythical?

I don't think so because, um, because the bones would have decayed by now if it happened a long time ago. And, um, we don't know if they're— and we've never seen them with our own eyes because normally civilizations take a long time to go away.

So, so is not seeing them with our own eyes why you think they're mythical, Sankara?

Yeah.

Okay, um, so I'm going to give you one piece of information and then we'll let you go. So have either of you heard of Neanderthals? Go for it, Sankara. What's a, what's a Neanderthal?

So there are these ancient humans who didn't know anything. All they like to use is rocks. There were different kinds of human civilization. They died about 2000 BC. And, um, and also, um, we are Homo sapiens and we fought them off, so they died. And they died because they didn't— we killed all the animals, so they couldn't eat meat or anything. And we were vegeta— we were, um, vegetarian. And I mean, what's the word? And we eat both so we could survive.

OK, thank you. And Alana, had you heard anything about Neanderthals? Is Sankara's description making sense?

Yeah, my brother has this book, and it has ancient ancestors of humans. And yeah, and I've heard of it before. So yeah, now I understand.

OK. One, just on the timeline, Sankara, I think the Neanderthals went extinct about 15,000 years ago rather than 2,000 years ago. Older, older than you were suggesting. But the reason I bring them up is that there are some people who think that the myth of trolls is kind of an ancient human memory of Neanderthals. Does that seem possible?

Maybe, because right now we don't know what Neanderthals looked like, although you could just Google it. Maybe they kind of acted or maybe just looked like trolls, maybe? From all perspectives. I don't know.

So just something that's interesting is, um, there's a lot of evidence that fairies, fairy tales, you know, the kind of stories that people tell their children, go back thousands and thousands of years. Um, and so some people think that the trolls, which came from fairy tales, are an ancient memory passed by thousands and thousands of years of the Neanderthals. Do you think that that's possible or is that not possible?

That's not possible because, because we, we have found loads of DNA pieces of them and we can change our bodies so we can look like Neanderthals or something like that, like these apps that can do that. But it doesn't change it permanently. And by the description of trolls, I don't think that the ancient memories of them—

Okay, what do you think, Alana?

Like, do you think the myth, or what you were saying, do you— did you say that the myth could be passed down from them, or—

No, that humans telling their children stories, fairy tales, for thousands of years, um, that the— what we call trolls in a fairy tale could have been based on the reality of a Neanderthal 15,000 years ago.

Um, I have one question though before I answer that. Have we ever found any Neanderthal bones?

We have lots and lots of Neanderthal bones. We know a lot about the Neanderthals.

I really have never seen any, but um, just maybe based off, um, the bones, and if you put them together to form a skeleton, maybe you could find out like what they looked like. And like maybe— and are you saying like if they made it up, or did they look like them, or—

Yeah, if it's based— if the idea of a troll, if the character of a troll in fairy tales is based on the real-world Neanderthals 15,000 years ago.

Um, it could be because— well, wait, fairies? Wait, no, trolls. Sorry. Um, it could be, but maybe you could just— like I said, maybe you could just put the skeleton together and maybe you could just find out what it looked like and then like figure out like what they ate or anything like that. And then maybe you could base it off of that and then you could find out because I really don't know.

Okay. I'm going to let you both research Neanderthals just because I think they're interesting. It sounds like Sankara, you know quite a bit about them already. Before we go, I always just like to check to see what worked and what didn't in this conversation. So what was the best part of this conversation for you, Sankara?

Um, talking about Neanderthals.

Okay. And did you have any frustrations?

Nope.

Okay, thank you. Alana, what was the best part of the conversation for you?

Um, Seamus and Cara just talking about Neanderthals. I've never really thought about them because I'm always doing other stuff.

Cool. And did you have any frustrations?

No.

Okay, in which case I will let you go have your days. Thank you. And, and Sankara, I will start another call to touch base with your mom, okay? Tell her I'll be right back. Bye-bye, you guys. Have a good day. Bye.