Socratic educator Michael Strong with Alana, age six

I'm well, how are you?

Good, how are you?

Well, it looks beautiful and sunny where you are.

Yes, I'm in Balboa Park right now.

You lucky person, what are you doing there?

I was about to ride my bike and Logan's gonna skate.

Is it okay to take a little break to have a conversation?

Yeah.

Logan is there.

Yeah, it is. I need mine.

Hey Logan, how are you?

Good. I've got it. Okay, I found—

what did you find? I— this is the first time I've spoken with Logan. Logan used to be a little kid.

That's a ball. Now he's He's just turning 3 on January 11th.

Wow, everybody gets older, don't they?

Yeah.

So I think you probably know what next week is.

Next week?

Is there a holiday coming up?

Christmas?

There you go. Do you like Christmas?

Yes, I do.

Why do you like Christmas?

Well, I get to spend time with my family. I get to open presents. I get to spend time with cousins that I— or family that I don't get to see very much.

This sounds wonderful. What kind of presents do you want this year?

I would say, you know, like fun stuff like a telescope, a camera, a yo-yo.

Oh, those are very cool. You know how to yo-yo already?

I did, but I lost all of them.

Have you ever seen anybody do fancy yo-yo tricks?

Uh, not much now.

People get really fancy with yo-yos. You remember what you got for Christmas last year?

Uh, I know last year I probably got an electric toothbrush.

Okay. Does last year seem like a long time ago?

Uh, no, that's just last year.

You think that you were a different person then?

Excuse me?

You think you were a different person then?

Um, maybe not, maybe yeah.

What do you think you learned in the last year since last Christmas?

Well, in first grade we've probably been learning about greyhounds, so maybe that. And then when I'm watching YouTube, I kind of, um, learn stuff on like It's Okay to Be Smart and TED-Ed.

Do you think that you read better than you did a year ago?

Yeah, definitely.

You remember what kind of books you were reading a year ago?

Still chapter books, I think.

Mm-hmm. What kind of books are you reading these days?

Harry Potter books, The Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter books like, like Simon Stories from Wayside School from the library. I borrowed that and The Prisoner of Azkaban. Notes to Mother Earth, um, and that kind of stuff.

What do you like best about reading?

What's best? I mostly think that you can learn what's happening in this world, or just fiction or nonfiction.

It was Harry Potter. Do you learn what's happening in this world by reading Harry Potter?

Not in this very world, like if there was magic and if there was magical creatures.

So do you think you learn about the world by reading about a Harry Potter magical world?

Yeah, because we can see stuff that in our minds, and when we read the words, um, we can picture stuff that maybe we don't get to see. We don't understand, but we can understand.

Would you say that when you read a bit in Harry Potter about magic that does not exist in this world, that your mind imagines this other world where the magic is real?

Yeah, but, um, in this world some magic is real, but there's more complicated magic in the other world.

So what's an example of magic that's real in this world?

Wait, excuse me?

What's an example of magic that is real in this world?

Well, maybe a magician can put a towel over maybe an acorn or some— or a leaf, and then maybe when he lifts the towel up, it can be in someone's ear or in your hand and you don't notice it.

Got it, got it. So you would say in Harry Potter the magic is even more complicated?

Yeah.

Do you think that, um, they just know how to do better tricks in Harry Potter's world?

Well, in Harry Potter's world they do classes, which helps him a lot.

So why don't we just do classes in magic here in this world?

It's because Um, all of us don't know magic. Only really magicians know, I think. But maybe some of us know, and probably the ones, um, you just do it with your hands.

Which one? Just which? In which case do you just do it with your hands?

Like, um, if you were holding something, you put a towel and you lift it up, it's gone and it's somewhere else. That's like lifting things and holding things.

So you think— you— are you saying those magicians do that with their hands?

Yes, but sometimes they do it with wands.

I see. So do you think— do you think there are any magicians in this world who can do magic as fancy as Harry Potter style magic?

I don't think so.

What's the coolest example of magic in Harry Potter's world? Can you think of an example of magic there you think is really cool?

I would say maybe in all of the movies and books because they're all really great.

So, I mean, it's been a long time since I've read Harry Potter, so please forgive me if I make a mistake, but isn't, isn't Quidditch the game where they fly around on their brooms? Is that right?

Quidditch, I think. Yeah.

Okay, Quidditch.

I think that's how you say it.

Okay. Do you think that we could fly on brooms if we tried hard enough?

No.

Why not?

Because, um, in their world, I think those are actually magic.

So why can't we just make magic brooms in this world?

Because we'll need an extra working machine that maybe we can't build, but maybe we can, to make a broom fly.

You think that jets and airplanes are magic?

No.

Why not?

Well, mostly because they have wings, curved wings and straight wings, and the brooms just have a thick— and the brooms just have strings and then a straight line to hold it.

So you're saying that planes and jets fly without magic, but brooms would need magic to fly. Is that right?

Yes.

How do you know that there's no magic involved with jets and planes?

Maybe because— wait, excuse me?

How do you know that there is no magic involved with jets and planes?

It's because the air under the wings and over the wings push under the wings The air under the wings that are straight lines push the wings up, and then the curved, the air goes more faster.

Okay. Do you think that if we put little tiny wings on brooms, then we could get brooms to fly?

Maybe, but we will need wind, very strong winds.

Very strong wind. Do you think you could design a flying broom if you had big enough wings and enough wind?

Yeah, I think so.

But what?

Um, but if you couldn't—

So do you think maybe, maybe we could do everything in Harry Potter's world somehow if we could figure it out?

Maybe we could, but for now I don't think we can.

Okay. Um, do you think that, um, making planes fly with wings is magic in the same way that Making an acorn disappear is magic?

Maybe, but sometimes they're different.

And can you explain the difference?

So sometimes the magic, like, so say you were holding an acorn, you put a towel over it, and then it disappeared. Planes, I don't think their wings, I don't think they can disappear if you put a towel over them. But there could also be another difference.

What could it, what could the other difference be?

Okay, so If the plane was magic and it didn't have controls, I think that would be magic. And if the acorns were magic and they could disappear without a towel, just a wand, maybe those could be a difference because, um, you're using a wand and then a towel.

Got it. Well, it's a beautiful day there, and I want to let you explore to explore, but I'm very interested in what counts as magic and how we know when something is or is not magic. One last question: do you think that the Harry Potter world is completely imaginary?

Yeah, but sometimes it can be real.

Okay, well, on a future conversation, maybe we'll explore the Harry Potter world versus our world a little bit more, okay?

Okay.

Okay, so have a wonderful day. Maybe we talk next week. Okay, bye-bye.

See you next Sunday, hopefully.