Starting Emma after reading Pride and Prejudice

Okay, I'm super, super curious to know what do you think of both Emma the character and Emma the book so far.

Okay, uh, I'm on, uh, maybe halfway or finished with 18, chapter 18, uh, and I think it's really interesting so far. And there's actually a lot of things happening, and I feel like even more characters and names than Pride and Prejudice, which is kind of confusing, so I have to like write it down. So I apologize if I like mix, uh, mess up in that sense, but I think it was really interesting.

No, um, yeah, go ahead.

My favorite mini plot point is, um, Harriet and Mr. Elton, because, uh, that really showed Emma's character because she was so like arrogant and confident in herself. Uh, backstory She took up matchmaking as a hobby after her, like, long-time nurse or something left and married somebody. And she tried to set up this girl who— I'm forgetting her origins, but I don't think she was very high-ranking. And then this guy, Mr. Elton, who's a vicar— I looked it up, I just forgot what it meant. Um, and she tells Harriet, oh, you can't because of this other guy. Who's a farmer, also not very high status, but whatever. He wanted to marry Harriet, and she was like, no, Mr. Elton is in love with you. Uh, and she was like, okay, uh, I'll go after Mr. Elton. But turns out that Mr. Elton isn't in love with Harriet, he's in love with Emma. And like one or two people tell her that, but she's too confident to listen to them. And then One night after dinner and lots of talk, they're alone in a carriage and he professes his love. It goes badly. So I like that. That was fun.

I'm pretty certain that I recall that Jane Austen said about Emma that she was writing a character that only she could love. That is, that most of us would not like Emma. And I think Emma, perhaps bad judgment on this particular issue is part of that. Do you find that you either dislike Emma or dislike respect her, or, um, it sounds like you sort of half find it funny. What do you think of Emma when she does all of this, these shenanigans that are, you know, I would say misguided at best?

I mean, it is kind of funny, but I don't confidently dislike her. I think she's got faults and she's very arrogant, but she's not evil or anything like that. She just wants to be the center of attention and give— have credit for all the sorts of good matches and stuff like that. She even takes credit for her nurse's match, I think.

So, got it. How would you— just to kind of connect Pride and Prejudice with this— how would you compare Lizzie as a kind of lead character with Emma? Um, in what ways are Lizzie and Emma similar versus different?

They're different for sure. I don't think Elizabeth is as outwardly confident in her abilities as Emma, if we're just talking about like matchmaking or what, and reading. I don't know, just to compare. Um, people tend to like Elizabeth more than they do Emma, just, uh, and they're both dealing with different things, but Emma is They are not the same, I think.

Got it. And by the way, in many lists of people's favorite Jane Austen books, Pride and Prejudice almost always comes out as number one.

Oh really?

Oh yeah. You can ask people. That said, Jane Austen wrote Emma immediately after writing Pride and Prejudice. So we might wonder, after writing the character of Elizabeth, in Pride and Prejudice. Why do you think she would want to write a character like Emma?

I don't know. Maybe she just wanted a character different than the good-hearted, sort of nice, beautiful Elizabeth. I mean, I know I think Emma's beautiful.

I don't know.

She just wanted a different look.

And of course, we don't know how Emma ends, but I think it's something that certainly in the background of my mind, Pride and Prejudice, I think in its own way is kind of perfect. And then Emma is so different. Emma is a character and so far Emma's a book, it's so different from Pride and Prejudice. You're an author, why would you write Emma writing Pride and Prejudice? What do you think of Mr. Knightley so far?

I think he's cool. I mean, at first I was kind of confused by the relationship between him and him and, uh, Emma, because I think there was a couple lines that I thought suggested that they were like married, but then I was like, no, that can't be right. I Googled it and it turns out he's like her cousin by marriage and also her brother-in-law or something. Um, go ahead.

There are two Mr. Knightleys. Um, that is—

oh yeah, that's true, right?

There is the Mr. Knightley who's her brother-in-law who is married to her sister. Um, so that— but then Mr. Knightley has another Mr. Knightley who's his brother. Um, were you clear about those two very different Mr. Knightleys?

Yes. Uh, the one I was thinking about was John Knightley, who is her brother-in-law, right?

So what do you think about the other one? I forget his first name, but I think we— she usually calls him Mr. Knightley.

Okay.

Okay.

Then I'm not too sure how she refers to— maybe it's like John Knightley or something. But I think he is— he's got lots of different opinions than Emma, and he's like the only person who tries to talk against her about her opinions and who voices his opinions that are different than hers. He basically disagrees with her in everything we see in the book. And they have like 3 arguments.

Do you think that's a healthy and good thing, or is it a problem? Or how do you take those disagreements?

I think it's a good thing for Emma. Maybe she'll recognize that maybe after this problem or situation with Elton and Harriet that maybe she's not a know-it-all, but I don't think she will because she's arrogant and too confident.

Would you say that, um, given that assessment, that you think Mr. Knightley is usually right and Emma is usually wrong when they have these arguments?

Yes. Yeah, probably.

Um, is it fair to say that Mr. Knightley is wiser than Emma?

Yeah, I think so. He is 10 or 16 years older than her, I think, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, that's roughly right. I think she's around 20 and he must be in his mid-30s, something like that. And do you think that— what do you think Emma thinks of Mr. Knightley? Is she annoyed by him? She likes him?

I think she's fond of him and she wants to be friends, but she thinks that she's always in the right and he's in the wrong and he's like, And she's like, oh, why is he trying to defy me? I'm totally right about this, but she's not in most— I mean, actually, in the arguments that they've had in like chapter 17, 18, I don't know who's right or wrong yet, but I'm feeling Mr. John Knightley will be right.

And then there's this Mr. Churchill. We don't know a lot about Mr. Churchill. Is it fair to say that Emma's at least a little bit interested in Mr. Churchill?

Yes. Yeah.

And do you think, do you think Emma is good at self-knowledge? Does she know herself very well?

Do you mean in terms of like status or personality or?

Oh, good questions. Kind of generally, that is, earlier you agreed that Knightley was wiser than Emma and that Emma had been wrong about these things. I guess Is Emma— I'm gonna use some terrible language, and with the intention that you can disagree— is Emma stupid? Is Emma childish? Is Emma full of herself? Why does— what causes Emma to have these mistaken judgments?

I don't think she's stupid, but she may be a little full of herself. She doesn't listen to anybody else's opinion. She thinks she's always right. Just in the cases that we've seen. So that even though she learned that she's not always right, that could still come to play with Mr. Churchill if he comes— if he becomes a larger character in the story, which I think he will.

So it's possible then that, say, somebody could be very intelligent and a good person, but because they're full of themselves, they make bad decisions. Is that kind of what you're saying?

Yeah. Yes.

And full of themselves. I'm looking for other language. Would you say she's vain, egotistical, selfish? I don't know. What are some other adjectives beyond full of herself, just to get a better sense of what you're thinking of the psychological dynamics that lead to Emma's flaws?

I think, I think to an extent she's, I mean, Vain, it doesn't just mean like concerned with looks, right? It could just mean like—

yeah, there's both a narrower version, concerned with looks, and then a broader version. Um, so you're saying the broader version?

Yeah, the broader version of vain, in my opinion, just because, uh, she thinks that— or she doesn't really— ah, I'm not sure if that's the right word, but overall she doesn't seem to care what other people think. Too much. Um, maybe that means she's egotistical. I'm not— I haven't— I've never used that word, so I'm not too sure. But yeah, got it.

Um, and then, uh, do you have any sense where the plot is going in this book, if you were to guess about what's going to happen to these characters? Or is it way too early to make plot guesses at this point?

Not in the end, but there are two new characters that I know of Jane and then Mr. Churchill. Uh, and Jane is described as like maybe just as smart or as pretty or as like talented as Emma, except she was lowborn and had to earn all those things. Uh, so I think there could be some tension between Jane and Emma in the future, as well as more tension with John Knightley and Emma, because there's always tension.

Got it. And then just, you know, in the first Jane Austen book, Pride and Prejudice, you know, you're kind of getting used to this whole social scene and wealth and status and marriage being so important and everything. Would you say that now that you're on your second Jane Austen book, that whole kind of social scenario just makes more sense and it's kind of easier to digest this time around?

Yeah, it makes more sense for sure. But from what I can tell in this book, they're not as worried about status as Pride and Prejudice, maybe just a little bit, except for when they're talking about the farmer who wanted to marry Harriet because he's a farmer and he's lowborn or whatever. But I feel like since all of them are friends and they tend to be sort of in the same status group or wealth group, there's no really talk of that, or maybe not yet.

And I would say one of the interesting things— this goes back to why would Jane Austen write about Emma after writing about Elizabeth? Because in Pride and Prejudice, you know, Elizabeth comes from a good family, but they're basically poor, you know, they don't have their own money. And so they're in danger of, if the daughters don't get married, it could actually be a pretty rough situation. Whereas this one, and so the whole part of the whole dynamic in Pride and Prejudice is, oh my gosh. And I'm talking about, you know, the mom, how do I get my daughter? You know, and how do I get my daughters married up basically? Whereas here we start off, Emma is rich. Isn't the first sentence like Emma is rich something, something. So, um, yeah, given— and of course, if you're rich, you don't have to worry about status because you've already got it. Uh, so yeah, uh, given that the society is the same, um, it's interesting that first— and this Pride and Prejudice is not her first book. I think Jane Austen had written several books before, before that. But it's interesting, she goes from one where it is kind of all kind of hungry for status to one where not even an issue. So if status is not an issue, what's, what's kind of going to drive the plot in this? What do you— again, I would say marrying the daughters is like the whole thing. And even though it turns out to be, you know, all about Elizabeth, still marrying the daughters is kind of the whole background drama in Pride and Prejudice. What do you say is driving? What would you say is driving the kind of dynamic or plot in Emma?

It could be Emma's matchmaking. That seems to have played a big part so far. And then maybe tensions with those new characters that we mentioned.

Okay.

But yeah, those are my main prospects so far.

I gotcha. Okay, cool. Well, I think this is— we're off to a good start. Sounds like you're enjoying Emma. Yes, for sure. Anything else before we pause and read more for next time?

Uh, no, nothing other than I'm liking it so far.

All right, terrific. All right, see you next time. Uh, we'll via WhatsApp, we'll figure out how much to read for next time, but probably is part 2 or whatever. Okay.

Yeah, sounds good.

All right.

Okay.

Bye-bye.

Thank you.