A Story of Faith, Portfolio Design & Hidden Reasons to Get Annuities Right | Ideas by Mike™ EP56

We have a— I'm sorry, a lady who came to the seminar and she was not the finance person, right? It was the husband. And this advisor sold them multiple annuities over time. The husband actually passed away in October. In November, the advisor came out to see her and sold her a $750,000 annuity, which would put her into 90+% of total portfolio in indexed annuities, right? That is so wrong on so many levels that when we have those conversations with people, like we have to explain to them, like the product might not be bad, but it's a liquidity factor, right? I think a lot of insurance people, They really miss how important liquidity is.

Welcome back to the Ideas by Mike podcast. I'm Mike Milligan, and today I'm sitting down with a guy I've wanted on this side of the microphone for a while now. Uh, we have been running kind of parallel in the industry for a while. He is an outspoken annuity expert on LinkedIn, runs a training program for over 50,000 life insurance and annuity agents across America, and has built a really nice financial planning practice or a financial practice up in Michigan. My guest today is Tracy Lohnberry. Tracy is the founder of the Annuity Giants and Annuity Giants Agents Academy. He's headquartered in Michigan. He's a former US Army soldier, 8 years to be exact, who then went into law enforcement upon leaving the military. He then became— he then saw something that was needed, right? Where he had served previously in the Army, served as a law enforcement officer, he saw something that was needed, and that was an ethical trainer in the insurance space. He's an expert contributor to US News, Forbes, InsuranceNet News, and Aspire Magazine. He's a member of the Forbes Finance Council. Most important, he's a husband and a father to 3, and, um, in every business decision he does with God first. So Tracy, I want to welcome you right now to the Ideas by Mike podcast. Late night drive with the dashboard glow, head full of questions about the future I don't know, headlines screaming market Here's why I wanted Tracy on the show and why I wanted it to point straight at pre-retirees, the retiree, and the advisor listening right now. In my world as a certified financial planning professional, where I help with tax strategy, retirement income investments, long-term care, legacy, annuities are one of the most misunderstood tools on the shelf today. Consumers hear the word and they recoil. or they hand over a check without asking a single question. Advisors either refuse to talk about them or they push them hard because they're the answer to everything in that advisor's mind. Both sides are wrong, folks. Both sides are missing the plan. Tracy has spent almost a decade proving there's a third way to educate first, structure second, sell last. And he's done it while producing at the highest level in the country and helping others Be ethical along the way. This episode's not going to be a product infomercial though. I want the person because Tracy's story is one of a kind. A small-town kid, a wife who reined him in and said he was crazy, a hitch, you know, his Army service, and then the big man upstairs who had a different plan for his life. So today we're going 4 places. His origin story, we're going to talk about him as a father, him as a husband, and then him as an industry leader. So welcome to the Ideas by Blake podcast.

Thank you.

Tracy, I have to start where every one-of-a-kind story starts, and that's the beginning. You came from a town called Cheboygan, Michigan, only a couple thousand people. And if I've done my research right, you've shared publicly that you barely graduated high school. You barely got into Ferris State. You met your wife right before your 21st birthday and she basically told you, I think she told you you're crazy. Does that sound right?

That all sounds about right.

Yeah. But let's— but somewhere in there you joined the United States Army, and that in— that is just says a lot about your character, right? Some people do it because they have to. Some people do it because they want to serve. But then you took that a little bit further and became a law enforcement officer. Um, there's some very specific path that led you there, but in your own words, kind of tell us the rest of the story when it comes to Uh, to your story.

Yeah. Um, you know, my, my background is, is one that, yeah, I don't think is, is that unique or, or, uh, I don't know, honorable or whatever. I, I think it's just the way it played out. Um, I always wanted to, I always wanted to be able to go and serve people. I like, I liked working with people and, and you're exactly right. I barely graduated high school. I, Barely got into Ferris. I started dating my wife when I was there. I decided I was going to join the military when I was in my first semester of college and ended up, you know, by the grace of God, I'll say, getting through college. And I was in the reserves on the military side and I was able to get into special operations, which was fun. I was in civil affairs and Had a lot of fun just grinding out military stuff and, and doing really, you know, we'll call it BA things, um, in the military. And, uh, and also, you know, deciding what career path I wanted to go on. And when, when I went through the police academy and graduated, um, I ended up getting a job and very, very quickly, when I say very quickly, within 3 weeks actually. It was something that we decided we were going to pivot. And a lot of things happened, and I'm not going to go through all the details as to why, but it was one of those things where sometimes you don't realize what you want until you start doing it or you get in it. And then you realize real quick, like, oh, this is not for me. And I always thought that was, I could just, whatever I put my mind to, I could find success at. So Yeah.

It's, it's interesting, right? If, because if anybody follows you on LinkedIn or Facebook or listens to you speak, um, you, you said you wouldn't go into details, but I'll, I'll push you just one thing there is, you know, I think a man, there's a path a man walks when the man upstairs is quietly rewriting the plan for him. And so I think, I think you are a man that is not, you, you, you don't mind talking about your faith. But do you see like from that high school in Sheboygan to where you are today, do you see that hand kind of guiding you through these journeys?

Absolutely. One of the most, I would say, repeatable prayers that I say myself is I ask the Lord to open the doors you want me to walk through and close the doors that you don't. And I'll try not to get mad when they get closed. Um, I'll just know that that's a sign that you closed that door for a reason, and I'm gonna go down, down the, down the path you want me to. And that has led me down, um, a lot of doors slamming in my face and a lot of hardship and a lot of, um, you know, a lot of crying, a lot of like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Like, I'm a, I'm gonna not make it. And it, it, it was just this. moment, this small moment that put me on a trajectory towards— and I still have a lot to go, but in my opinion, towards a life that I couldn't ever have imagined that I would've had.

So I just want to tell you something. Your story is unique. You said that your story is not that unique when you were answering the first question. Your story is unique. It's uniquely yours. It's a path that you and your wife are taking to raise your boys together. And that's where I want to talk about now, right? Is every day you get the privilege and the honor to talk to people from all around the country in the setup where you are right now with that great microphone, with your voice, and with the head and the heart knowledge of doing the right thing. But when the microphone turns off, And you go home and you and Elizabeth are talking, what are some things, give us a behind-the-scenes look about what you guys are talking about, maybe from a business standpoint, like how you guys are growing together, but also what today's world looks like for you guys and where you all want to get to in the future.

Yeah, I would say we are, we're a very typical traditional family, as in, you know, we get home and sometimes we're just like both conked and we do the dinner and we sit down at the end of the day and we're not, we're not having deep conversation. We just want to relax, right? When that, when those conversations, again, it's, yeah, I think sometimes you, you, you see like influencer people, whatever, and it's like they always have like these It's like, oh, me and my wife, we have these deep conversations all the time. And it's like, yeah, okay. Like if I had a deep conversation with my wife every single day, I think, I mean, that's a lot of brain energy. So yeah, I'm human just like everybody else, right? We struggle with things just like everybody else. But I will say the trajectory of our life and where we go is very centered around our children and where we want our children to be. So it's the business stuff is just a reflection of in my opinion, ministry in some way, shape, or form. But it's also a trajectory around how we can support other ministries, support, obviously support our lifestyle, but then support our children so that they don't have to worry about the things that we had to worry about as kids. You know, I grew up really poor. My wife grew up, yeah, I say silver spoon in her mouth, but not really. I mean, she was just a step above, a couple steps above me. So it's, we have a lot of those conversations like teachers that come into school and like doing research on the teachers, make sure like these are teachers that are guiding our children in some way. Like, that's really important to us. You know, ministries that we give to, obviously your day-to-day things. You know, we've been super blessed where we don't necessarily have to worry about like where the next paycheck's coming from. So we can have a little bit deeper thought in other areas. But it doesn't mean that we don't still talk about finance and I don't still bring up business stuff. Granted, she's not super involved in the business. She's got 3 kids at home, so we kind of separated a little bit. But yeah, it's one of those things where you just have to make sure you're on the same page in the topics in your life that are very important. And then there's going to be a lot of things that I just kind of leave to her and she leaves to me.

There's a lot of people that come to you for your knowledge, like the technical details of annuities, for instance, or how to properly structure income solutions so people never run out of money. But you said something very interesting there is that you said you grew up poor. Your kids are living a very different lifestyle than what you lived at their age.

Yeah.

How do you ground like where you came from versus the lifestyle they're living to make sure that they kind of exponentially do more when they get to your age than what you're doing now. What's some principles that help you ground that for them?

That is, I would say, an ongoing struggle every day with wanting to give my kids more than I've had, but also want to make sure that they don't get all the wants. I think it really breaks down into wants and needs, right? So we obviously are going to give them all, all they need. And when it comes to wants, we're going to make sure that, you know, wants can equal fun and can equal, can equal other things. And I think it's just a very cognizant process of, it's very easy for us to be, let's say, as an example, we just went to like a monster truck rally and it's like, oh, they're selling little monster truck toys. It's easy for us to just say, oh, let's get everybody a toy. But then we realize, oh, we have 27 of these at home, right?

Mm-hmm.

So it's, it's that That let's pay attention and say no a lot more often. Nos are harder than yeses, right? But nos lead to a lot more building patience into your children and just character. And so for her and I, it's let's take the hard route more often and like, let's tag team here and I'll be the no one today and you'll be the no one tomorrow and I'll be the no one the next day and you'll be the no one. And I think the nos really build a lot. And I think the easy thing is yes. And I think that's why people with, you know, I don't know if you want to say with money or just maybe a little bit more financially stable. Um, the yeses are just easy. Oh yeah, just grab it. Cause I don't want to listen to you complain. Right. It's like, that's, that's not parenting. Parenting is, is dealing with those complaints and addressing them and teaching them and guiding them.

I'm, I'm on the other side of that a little bit because I have a grandson now. Like I've raised 3 kids and have a grandson now. And so when Daniel says to me, I want that, or yeah, I'm good. That's, It's one of those arcs and those transitions of life. Speaking of that, before, because I do want to get into where your technical expertise goes into just a minute where let's, we're going to talk about what people get wrong about annuities and what advisors owe their clients from there. But I just want to ask from a family standpoint again, just think like, because we ask our clients every day, to imagine what retirement's like. And, um, but we also have a lot of listeners to the podcast are in their 30s and 40s. And when we ask them what life looks like at 70, they don't know, right? Because what you just said about being in the moment, raising kids is what they're thinking about. But have you thought about what life looks like for you when you're 70 years old?

I have. I've thought about retirement and when I want to retire and after retirement and grandkids. And I'll just say that I, for me, I want to be able to look back at my life and know that there was impact and that the way that I built my business and my family is that the impact is stretched amongst multiple avenues. And just that people say like, oh, I want financial freedom, but what does that really mean? When I'm retired or 70, I don't really care to go sit on a beach and not move for 2 hours. Like I'm going to get up within 20 minutes and want to go do something. So I think I just want to be able to take care of my health and my wife, be healthy enough to still go and use our brain to go and serve other people. I think I just always want to do that till the day that I die in some way, shape, or form. I think that's what I'm called here on earth to do.

See, that's, uh, it's interesting, right? Because as we've talked here, you've talked about the, the how, what the night is like for you and Elizabeth, how, what the, what it's like to go back and forth and raising 3, you know, young men, right? Who can impact the world. And then you, you've dared to still dream what age 70 looks like.

Yeah.

And that's what's interesting, right? Is I, and so if you're listening today, I don't care if you're 70, If you're 40 or if you're 20, it's okay to think a little bit about the future while still living in the present, right? Because people that have success with their finances have a plan that goes with it also. And that plan goes with knowing why money's important to you, what the vision for your life is, and then making sure you have strong partners next to you to help you stay on course. Now, this is the fun part, right? This is where Joe Smith from Omaha, Nebraska has logged in because he saw you as a guest on my podcast and he's an annuity producer and he wants to hear you get to it. Now, you ready for this?

I'm ready for it.

You ready?

All right.

What does— all right. I'm going to ask this very simply. What does America get wrong about annuities?

I just actually did a seminar and it was one of the first things that I talked about in a different type of question. But I think what America gets wrong about annuities is that they try to categorize all annuities into one thing. The definition of what an annuity is, And the definition behind what all the different types of annuities do or the end result of them are very, very different, right? Annuities aren't just designed anymore for streams of income. They're not just designed anymore where you put your money in, if you die early, you know, it goes to the insurance company. Not all annuities have a whole bunch of fees. 70% of annuity offerings don't have a single fee inside of them, but there are costs in other ways and you should be aware of those. So I think what they get wrong is just categorizing all of them into like one. And normally it's, you know, normally what I hear a lot of it is like annuity, oh, variable annuity. Like everybody thinks of variable annuities and think of, you know, all the different riders and fees and expense ratios and all that. And that's just, that's just, that's one small piece of what annuities are. There are so many different ones. I think they just get overwhelmed and it's our job to simplify that.

And there's a lot of people out there or a lot of marketing. It's not even people, right? It's marketing.

Yeah.

And we've seen it. I hate annuities. And it, by the way, it comes from corporations, right? Fisher Investments said that for a long time. It comes from financial entertainers. I mean, Dave Ramsey will say it. Suze Orman says it, right? And I think that's the only thing that Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman agree on is, I hate annuities. Why is a blanket statement like that just flat out wrong?

Well, I think blanket statements in finance in general are wrong. And I've made some in the past and I've been shown, like I used to say all variable annuities suck. And then I had an advisor show me like a One with, had like almost no fees in it. And I was like, oh, I didn't even know these existed, you know, over time. So yeah, I think it's easier because they're a general audience, right? So they're not going to get into specifics because if the more nuanced they get into, the more people they'll lose in their audience. So if they can say a general statement, then they'll bring in a general audience, which is normally larger than a niche audience. And that's why, that's the only reason why they're doing it, right? And obviously we know that I hate this saying, but I'm going to say it. The devil's in the details, right? We need something. We need to change that around a little bit somehow. But yeah, it is. And that's finance, right? Why is it that when you ask a financial advisor like a specific question, their first answer is, it depends? Because there's so much nuance. I need variables. I need this. I need that. It's the same thing. Annuities, you have to give me the variables. You have to give me the nuance, right? If we can sort through that, Now find what the problem is, then we can find you a custom solution where it's a great fit for you.

What's your— just out of left field, what's your thought on Bitcoin?

It's not for me because I find myself being a little bit more conservative. If I want to go that high volatility type asset, I'm probably going a couple different directions than Bitcoin. But I'm not anti-Bitcoin. I think if I look at it like this. If you have money to gamble and you're okay with it and you want that to be part of your portfolio, you don't mind seeing a lot of volatility in, go for it. I don't mind. Now, for the retiree who's got $1 million who needs to generate $65,000 a year from their portfolio, 6.5% withdrawal, they need it for the rest of their life and inflation adjusted, probably not. Probably not for them. So yeah.

This reminds me, when you said that about Bitcoin, it reminds me of a LinkedIn post where you were, You live out loud a little bit on LinkedIn and you had this leveraged ETF position this year.

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

And you, and you do, do, do, do you remember? Don't, don't, don't give the ticker, right? Because I don't want people to go out there and be like, buy this thing. Right. Don't, this is not a recommendation to buy or sell folks, but you, you bought it at a level, right? Do you remember what level you bought it at?

I bought it at 84, I think.

And you sold it somewhere around maybe like $120,000 or $140,000 or something like that?

Yeah. $140,000, $140,000 something. Yeah.

And then it went to like $210,000.

Yeah. Its spike, I'm looking at it right now. Its spike was up to $295,000.

Yeah. And so when you said you would go and find other volatile assets, I think the point there is Bitcoin could be very volatile, but there's other things out there that can go there. So So I mean, that was a good answer on Bitcoin. Let me try one more. What's your feeling on CDs?

Not a fan.

Right.

In general, not a fan.

Right?

Right. Yeah. I think, obviously ordinary income, so the tax advantages aren't great on them. There is no tax advantage on it. I think I'd probably just pick a municipal bond over something like that, but obviously you'd have to be aware of the timeframe. If you're going to go timeframe, then maybe I'll go Treasury. So I think if a Treasury rate beats a CD, I'm probably going the Treasury over the CD. If it sneaks it out, then maybe a CD. All right.

And then we're going to come back to annuities because we're not going to get you too far away from your expertise.

Sure.

But you also go to church.

Yep.

And when you go to church, a couple songs, pass the offering plate, pastor gets up and preaches. And when he gets up and preaches, he'll, depending on what the theme of the week is or what time of the year it is, he'll talk about sin as something we hate and forgiveness and grace as something we aspire to.

Sure.

When I hear people say, I hate annuities, or, I hate Bitcoin, or, CDs are wrong, it seems like to me, it's almost like people are on a pulpit Like a preacher would be saying, I hate sin and you should run from it. And annuities are not a religion.

Right.

They don't have any eternal significance. They have zero value to you when you die. They're only for the living. Why do you think we have You said a little bit of this earlier, but why do you think we've made annuities such a religion in America?

When we look at a topic like an annuity in general, or topics like annuities in general, it's such a huge market.

Right.

And when you have a topic that is as kind of in your face as they are in it, you know, there's, it's a multi-trillion dollar industry. There will be people who go one way with it, and there will be people who go another way with it. And it is for the sake of profit, right? And so I think, I think that's probably why is, you know, you go far one way with it, especially the negative side. Negativity is what what breeds eyeballs. We know that, we see it in the media all the time. And if that is your marketing approach, it will yield a better result initially. And it will bring people to you. And I think that's likely why people go that route. And once you start that way, it is really hard to come back the other way, right? As you said earlier, you know, Fisher has made a career on building that type of a marketing platform, right? They're never going to go the other way. Even if the industry's completely changed and now annuity offerings are way different. They'll never admit that because it would go completely against their previous kind of marketing approach. So I think that's why I think it's for profit, for the love of money, right?

It is, right? And I don't know where I'm going to go with annuities are not a religion. But it is just, as somebody who also grew up in the church and, you know, God and I have our own battles, man. We fight it out. We just, we go at it. Like, I don't understand a lot of things that happen on this earth and I'm not supposed to. And hopefully I'll get a chance to hear them later. But like, annuities are just not a religion.

Right.

And I'm tired, like, I'm kind of tired of people acting like if you have an annuity, you know, or you don't have an annuity, it's a sin against retirement. It's not. It's a preference. It's a choice. It's a tool, right? But I want to get a little bit into your philosophy a little bit because I think one of the things that we need in this country are more informed, better educated, better communicators when it comes to— we need better educators, better communicators in the financial services industry. And you are tackling this head-on with Annuity Giants. I love the name.

Thank you.

Right. People in the insurance industry obviously love what you're doing because you've trained probably close to 50,000 or more or spoken with more than 50,000 or more financial professionals. What is, as somebody who trains financial professionals, what do you hope to accomplish by doing that?

It started out as an ego thing, actually. That's how it started. Funny enough, right? So, you know, it was, I started building a kind of following online and I started a Facebook group for advisors and agents, mostly agents. I wasn't even in the advisor community yet. And I loved being able to answer people's questions as, you know, hey, somebody posted a question there and it was addicting to go research if I didn't know the answer, find data to support it, and then answer the question and become that quote expert. And that was all ego-driven is I was becoming the guy and I was, I've never been the guy, right? And then over time, as you get a little wiser, and that doesn't mean anything to you anymore, because it doesn't, it's just, it was already a ball that was moving, right? And it turned into this, you know, training platform that we have now. And the legacy behind it is definitely going to be a, I want to be able to change the direction of the industry that we're heading. I want to be able to course correct a bit. And I want to be able to have impact on that, right? I want however long I'm here and impacting that, you know, I want people to look back and say, oh, like that was cool that Tracy stood his ground and, you know, there were the right people followed suit. Will it ever happen? I don't know. But I know that the people that follow me are likely going to be better off than following, you know, your traditional IMO, FMO carrier marketing pitches. Um, because I'm going to tell you the truth and I have nothing to hide.

That's good. Now, um, but most people, if, if most people don't know you and they're just running across you for the first time on this podcast, what they also don't know is that you also meet with individuals where they are in their finances. You are both a trainer to tens of thousands, but you're also at the conference room, the kitchen table, the Zoom meeting with people. What are you finding? Maybe think about your last 10 or 20 meetings with individuals. What are you finding out there that are concerning people right now about the future and about their money?

I think the consistent thing that I see people struggle with, first off, not actually having an end goal for their money, right? Not knowing what their end goal is, right? I like to break it down. You have 2 end goals. You either spend it or you give it or a combination of both, right? That's it. That's the only thing money can do. Spent by you, spent by somebody else. And I think that's the important part because if you can directionally focus on one of those 2 things or how it's blended. Oh, it's a 70/30, 60/40 within those things. It actually makes portfolio design a lot more simple, right? If I design a portfolio that's more designed for spending, that's very different than a legacy portfolio, right? You know, buy and hold some ETFs, individual stock, whatever, right? Versus, you know, a dividend or an income-generating portfolio, completely different. So that's one. The second one Is this idea of not spending enough. You know, people don't know how to spend their money. You know, there's studies out there that show people spend income, but they have a really hard time spending assets, right? So this idea of, if you continue down this direction, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you're going to end up leaving a bunch of money. And from what you've told me, that's not necessarily your goal. It's not that people want to go and spend money on Things like Lamborghinis or bigger houses or whatever. But what we try to show them, or even sometimes convince them, is to start using the money as a tool to buy time back, right? There's, I don't want to go down a bunch of different examples, but the one was a very high net worth client, farmer, never had any money till he sold his farm, has $20+ million now and didn't know how to spend it. And loved traveling. And so we convinced him to fly private and he saved 8 hours every time he flew. And we added that up over his lifetime estimate and it was like 6 to 8 months of his time, right? If you're knocking on death's door, how much money would you give me if I said I can give you 8 more months? All of it. Most people, all of it, right?

Most people, yep.

So this, yeah, this was just a, this was just a small chunk that we allocated to flights and flying private. And it was just this consistent thing for him. And then that gave him time back. And what's nice is he was able to take 6 people with him. So it was great.

That's crazy. That's a really good story. And so, I mean, like the way you broke down that is just amazing, right? You either spend it or you give it and making sure people understand, like, Those 2 elements before they even build portfolio construction. Um, when you're reviewing financials, so I mean, those are obviously conversations you're having at the very beginning with individual, but, but then you start, you actually start analyzing portfolios. So you, you take the relationship component of helping people realize what money can do for them, but then you're analyzing what their money has done for them. So I asked you first, what are, what conversations are you having with people? And what do you see? And now when you're analyzing portfolios of people who have just met you, what are you seeing big firms and how they construct money right now?

I feel like you know the answer to this when I answer this.

Well, our listeners don't, and our listeners are probably tired of me saying it. So that's why I have you on here to say it a different way.

Right. Yeah. you know, the big box firms are pretty much, you know, it's all, and I'm not saying necessarily there's everything wrong with this approach, but, you know, it's a sleeve-based investing. They got, you know, they got their 3 options and, you know, they're going to put you in one of the 3 sleeves and it's pretty cookie cutter, right? I'm seeing a lot of that and it just doesn't align with that specific situation, right? There's just something off there. It's an optimization issue, right?

Yeah.

The other thing is, People thinking they're— the whole idea of diversification, they think they're diversified and they're not, right? Like, oh, I have all of these different ETFs. Yeah, but a bunch of these same ETFs are in the same exact sector or in the same exact weighting. You know, I'm in 10 different ETFs, which I do prefer ETFs over mutual funds, but you know, I'm in 10 different ETFs and thinking I'm diversified and they're all, you know, a 60/40 weighting. You know, it's like you're not diversified, you're just in stocks and bonds in 10 different ways. You know, seeing that and then probably the rebalancing of a portfolio. It's like, I think a lot of advisors get a little lazy and they don't actually listen to their clients. It's one thing to take that like discretionary decision-making that a lot of advisors have and just say, you know, trust me, I know what I'm doing. You have to take it past that. It's, yeah, you might be right, but you still have to listen to your client. You sometimes have to let your client experience their way, right? Too. I think a lot of advisors get that wrong. Like, okay, we can do this your way, but like, I'm going to dictate this. You know, I'm going to write all this down. I'm going to have you sign it. And then we're going to see how that goes. Right. And I think sometimes people have to learn that the hard way and they actually will gain more and more respect for you and probably be a client for life when they realize like, okay, they know what they're doing. So that piece there, I think a lot of advisors miss too. They just try to like pull the trust me card and that's it. And like, my decision's number one, even though it's their money. That doesn't work.

So that is what I expected you to say. And that is exactly opposite of the way, I mean, it's not opposite, it's just different than the way I say it. And that's the thing, right? Is like one of the, one things I'm really excited about, or having you on the podcast is I think a lot of our messaging is similar, but the way we say it is different. And like, and I want, then, and I cannot potentially serve every American out there who has a retirement income or a financial planning or a tax problem. I can't. And what I'm, and that's why I like to introduce people who can other than me, right? I mean, there may be somebody in Michigan or Wisconsin or North Dakota who wants to work with someone kind of quasi-local or somebody in California who will resonate with you more than me.

Right.

Right. And I think we have to do more of that in our in our profession have introduced other really ethical, strong people in there. I do want to ask you one thing about that advisor thing though, because you talked about that advisor standpoint from a standpoint of mutual funds, ETFs, sleeve investing.

Sure.

Do you ever run into anybody who you're like, wow, you're concentrated in insurance products only?

Yes. Yeah. I'm working on one right now, actually.

And what is your reaction or what is your comment to those people after you've explained, right? Spending or giving and what their money should do for them. But then you see their assets and you see everything where an advisor, they believe that insurance is the only asset, right? What do you then help that Yeah.

Well, it, I will, I will say this, a heavier allocation into insurance products isn't necessarily a bad thing if it really fits what that client's looking for. So I want to just throw that out there. But yeah, that's good. 90% of your assets in insurance, right? First off, you know, I'll give you a case I'm looking, looking at right now. So we have a gentleman who came to a, I'm sorry, a lady who came to the seminar and her husband passed away back in November. They were working with a local advisor since about 2020, and she was not the finance person, right? It was the husband. And this advisor sold them multiple annuities over time. And in November— the husband actually passed away in October. In November, the advisor came out to see her and sold her a $750,000 annuity, which would put her into 90-plus percent of total portfolio in Indexed annuities, right?

Right.

That is so wrong on so many levels that when we have those conversations with people, like we have to explain to them, like the product might not be bad, but it's a liquidity factor, right? I think a lot of insurance people, they really miss how important liquidity is. And it's, you kind of almost have to experience it to realize how important it is. And I did in my early career, You know, Joe's got $200,000. I'll put $100,000 of that into annuity, 50/50, not a big deal. It solves this problem for him. You don't know how fast somebody can blow through $100,000.

Right.

Right? It's very different from $1 million with $500,000 into an annuity, right? A lot harder to blow through $500,000, right? So it is size. It's not always weighting. And I think that's the big thing I try to explain to clients is you can have ABC happen in a row, negative things in your life, And all of a sudden that nest egg, that liquidity, that this, that, that turns into a zero, or we have a down market. Now you're selling at the bottom because you had something happen right now. How powerful is that annuity for you? And it's not anymore. It's now an asset that's going to be eating you up with surrender penalties as you start drawing more and more out. And so it's, yeah, I'm very anti-heavyweighting of insurance products for that specific reason. Lots of other reasons, but liquidity is the big one.

If we're coming toward the end now, almost to the finish line, if there was one thing you could change about the financial industry, what would it be?

Only one thing?

Just one thing. Just one.

More funding. for oversight so they could pay for more staff members to have better oversight over the insurance and financial side. And I'm not saying worse regulation, I'm saying better regulation.

I did not see that one coming. I was like, I did not. So, but now I understand where you're coming from, right? So it's basically to get You know, those who are doing harm to clients out of business.

Yeah. And I think there's a lot more than people think. I think majority of people think that, oh, there's, it's just such a small percentage. And I think there's 2 groups. There's the, I'm doing this out of malice, which I do think is a small percentage, but then there's the ignorant, right? And I think that's a really large percentage. And I think if we had better for one, better, better continuing education with better regulation around it and then better oversight. I think that would, that would help eliminate a lot of that. I don't think the oversight we have now, I think there's a lot of overstretching. We don't need that. We don't need more. We just need it to be better with where it's at. Right. More staff.

So, so, so almost more regulation and, you know, inspecting or auditing advisors' work. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. A lot more reporting. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah.

Man, when somebody, when somebody asks me that question here in the next 3 or 4 months, I may use that answer. 'Cause that, that is actually really good. That's a really good answer.

Yeah.

Hey, um, I'm gonna give you a chance to tell the audience how to connect with you, right?

Sure.

But, um, I want to tell you something, man. A one-of-a-kind life is not built by accident. And if you think about it, a kid from a town of 2,000 people who barely graduated high school, And you even raised your right hand to go into the Army. You put on that uniform. You met a woman who told you you were crazy. And then you've submitted your family's life to God and you've become one of the most trusted trainers in this industry, at least in the annuity space in the industry, because most people are too scared and too lazy to actually do the work themselves. And you're doing that work. Um, your story is unique and you are one of a kind. And I, and I, and I want to say this out loud. I want to profess this on the podcast. Go further because you, you, you can make it. You, that impact that you say you can make, you can go further. There's people that we both know in this industry, Tom Hegna, David McKnight, uh, Wade Pfau, that we, we, we see the impact they've made, right?

Yeah.

And then we see others on LinkedIn making impact. You have a pathway before you, man, that is just, that is your lane and you can make an impact unlike a lot of those people who've paved before you. And that's the story. One of a kind life is not, it doesn't happen by accident and you are unique and your story is the point.

Thank you.

If you were going to give listeners maybe a homework assignment, right? Whether that is— and let's speak to 3 different listeners here. So, I'm going to give you a pathway to do it all. But if you were going to give a homework assignment to an agent or advisor who listened to this podcast and heard our conversation about annuities are not religion or how they speak to What is a homework assignment you would give an advisor?

I would tell an advisor that the next time you sit down, let's just say your next 10 clients or their next 10 prospects, I want you to ask them that end goal question. That's what I would ask them. So what is the end goal for your money? So do you want to spend it? Do you want to give it or do you want to do a combination? If you do want to do a combination, what does that look like? Right? And just let them explain it however they want to explain it and work through it however they want to work through it. And I think it'll give you a lot of insight on where the direction of your planning should go.

That's good. And if you could give somebody a homework assignment, let's say they have a partner or a spouse at home and they're raising kids, right? Can you give somebody a homework assignment about what Uh, about looking into the future like you, like you and Elizabeth have?

Yeah, I think communication is probably the hardest thing for a lot of couples to, especially when you have kids. Um, it's, it's easy to not communicate. I would say at the end of your day, uh, once the kids are down and sleeping, and I know this is hard because you want to have, you know, relaxed time, whatever. Start spending a half hour and, um, communicate and, and have the topic be, you know, what's, what's the next week, month, year, 5-year, 10-year, 20-year. And, and it can be that section for that night. And then the next night, go to the next one. So 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 5-year, and, and do that until you get to, you know, end of life. And, and wow. You guys will be able to understand where your goals align and where they don't.

I'll add one thing to that too, by the way. By doing that, you see the future with that spouse.

That's right.

And that's a huge thing. And then, okay, the last one here, the homework assignment to somebody. And guys, this is an expert. This is not, this is just not me pulling somebody off the street and being like, I need to fill a podcast. This is an expert who's going to answer this one. But if somebody owns an annuity, What is one homework assignment you would give somebody?

I would, and I can have you attach a link to this, whatever, but I have a sheet that can be unbranded and you won't even know who it's from. And it's 20 questions about your annuity. And right now I would go and I would call the carrier and I would ask them 20 questions about that, those 20 questions about that annuity. Because when you have it explained from the company and where the contractual guarantees are and all that and the rates, it might be totally different from the expectation that was set when you first purchased it. And it's going to allow you to align and see if that was really appropriate for you or not outside of somebody who's making a commission or a fee or whatever. who sold it to you. I think that's an important thing. Yeah.

So that's good. I'm going to get those 20 questions from him and we'll put those in the comment section here.

Perfect.

Tracy, I think our audience is going to be like, wow, I want to hear more of this guy. I want to hear where he is. So where can people find you? If they're an advisor, where can they find you? Somebody that has an annuity that is not working with One Oak Financial, but people who are out there in the community, people in the community who'd be like, hey, listen, I have an annuity. Where can people connect with you?

Sure. So advisors, my main platform is LinkedIn. So connect with me on LinkedIn, message me on there. If you don't have LinkedIn, you're more than welcome to email us at support@theannuitygiants.com. If you are a consumer and you Just want to learn more about our practice, you can visit upnorthretirement.com or email me directly at tracy@upnorthretirement.com.

That's really good. Really good. And guys, if you want some comedy on LinkedIn, you definitely want to go follow him because it is, especially if you're in the industry, if you want to see him just like, you know, just like, just dig into somebody a little bit, he's really good at that. But, but, but it's all for a good purpose. And people that are doing a lot of work at the— a lot of great work around the industry are having really positive conversations on a platform that is set up for that. Tracy, thanks, man, for your time today. I really appreciate you.

Thanks for having me.

Wow, what an amazing conversation on the Ideas by Mike podcast today. Just, I wanted to let you know again that I am an investment advisor representative with Advisory Alpha LLC. Ideas by Mike, and I, the podcast is, uh, is owned by Mike Milligan LLC. Ideas by Mike, doing business as One Oak Financial, is an independent and unaffiliated entity of Advisory Alpha LLC. Please do not take anything we said today and make investment or make investment changes without first consulting with a licensed financial professional. And this has been for educational purposes only. Until next time, this has been Mike Milligan with the Ideas by Mike podcast.

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