Curiosity, Clarity, and the Four Doors into Better Retirement | Ideas by Mike™ EP57

Welcome back to the Ideas by Mike podcast, the show where big ideas meet real life, because I believe you should never miss a moment. Today's guest is a man who took the phrase backyard business literally. We're going to get into that in the podcast a little bit later, but his journey is anything but a straight line. You know, his headline says it all, and we're going to talk about that in the podcast too. So I'd like to introduce the Ideas by Mike podcast listeners to Cody Lutz. Coach Cody, welcome to the show, my friend.

Late night drive with the dashboard glow, head full of questions about the future I don't know.

Cody, before you were Coach Cody, right? You were out living a pretty unique life even before that. But can you tell our audience what the evolution of your life has been to bring you to this point right now where you are helping successful people or people that want to be successful and be even more successful?

Yeah, man, that's a fun question. So I grew up in a county that had more cows than people. Kid you not. I grew up on a dirt road in a rural farming community, just a country boy at heart. And so that's still very much a part of who I am. But man, grew up in this tiny little town, worked for my dad who was an entrepreneur most of my growing up years. And then when I graduated high school, I didn't want to go to college. I just was like, hey, I'm just going to go straight into work. And, uh, got connected with this cool ministry down in Kentucky called Answers in Genesis. They built the life-size Noah's Ark, if you're familiar with that.

Yeah.

Uh, in Kentucky, the Ark Encounter. So I, uh, I went and I worked, I, I, I moved to Kentucky, uh, to go work for that business or that organization, Answers in Genesis, uh, at 19 years old. In fact, kind of funny story that the, I started with the the warehouse. I just got my foot in the door at the warehouse. I was like, I'm going to work for this organization. I don't know what I'm going to do, but like, I think there's more opportunity there for me than this tiny little town that I'm in. And so I went, I volunteered, I just worked for 2 weeks at this warehouse. And I was like, hey man, told the manager, I was like, I'm going to come work for you. He's like, yeah, I'm not even hiring. I'm like, no, no, no. Like, I'm going to come work for you. Just tell me when you're going to hire me. And he's like, well, we don't even have a position, but I do need somebody. So let me see if I can get something approved to hire. And then I'll hire you. I'm like, great. Like, I just, I came in, I worked, you know, a 40-hour shift as a volunteer, which was like most of the time they had volunteers come, they'd work a couple hours and then they'd go home. He's like, you can leave whenever. I'm like, no, no, I'm here to work. I'm here to work until the work is done. And he's like, you're not getting paid. I'm like, no, no, no. I'm just here to work. And so, and so that's what I did. And then a few months later, he ended up getting a job Approved, hired me. A few months later, I got promoted, got promoted at the warehouse. A few months later, I got the job traveling and doing event coordinating with that organization. They had conferences and events all over the country, all over the world. I had never even flown on an airplane and I was too young to rent a rental car and legally drive it, but I got the job. And so for the next like 7 years of my life, I traveled around, Doing conferences and events in my 20s, which was awesome. Got to see a lot of the country, climb a lot of cool mountains and meet a lot of cool people and just really obsess about people. Like, that was when I think just my curiosity in people became like the focus of my life. The Lord was good to me, also let me meet my wife that way. And for the last few years of that job, I was I was running events and traveling with the CEO of that organization exclusively, doing all of his executive speaking events. I got to like have dinner with billionaires and stuff. It was cool. And then the Lord directed my steps during COVID as many other people experienced. The world kind of changed a lot and events were not happening.

Right.

So the Lord graciously shut the door for me to work The only grown-up job I'd ever have doing events. I'm like, I don't even know what else I would do. But my wife and I had actually been praying for like a year, Lord, open the door for what's next. Open the door for what's next. I know I don't want to be traveling all the time now that I have got, you know, we had just had our first kid literally like a month before everything shut down for COVID, February of 2026. And the Lord opened the door and he opened the door for me to go work at this software company, a little SaaS company, about $5 million-ish ARR. And the Lord opened the door for me to go work for them and got a job, just an entry-level position in customer support, which is great. I'm like, I love people. I'm fascinated with people and solving the puzzle of people. And so, it's a technical job sort of, and I'm like, I can solve problems. Like, I'm pretty good at solving solving problems and tech is interesting, but really the thing that you're solving in customer support is people. And so I just, I loved that and I wasn't making very much money. I was working for a nonprofit ministry. So the entry-level position at SaaS was like what I'd worked my way up to making after like 8 years at a nonprofit. So I was like, great, this is perfect. A year and a half later, I was promoted to running the department. I was a department head. And so I was, Building the team and hiring people and firing people and just really got, that was my first like official management role. I'm like, oh dude, this is amazing. Like just as part of a leadership team in a small business, like just learning the game of business and falling in love with the game of business. And just at the time I didn't call it coaching, I just called it leadership, but it's just learning the game of people and just figuring people out in these these human beings. I was like just committed to being the best boss I could possibly be. And so, you know, led a team of high performers in the customer support space, customer experience space in SaaS. And then the Lord redirected my steps again. I got promoted to full-time entrepreneur 2 years ago. I got fired. So it was just like the perfect step. Like I could tell like it was Right at the time I was turning 30 and I'm like, man, I'm kind of hitting just like a growth ceiling in this company. There's just not a whole lot of room for me to grow. And like, they could see it. I could see it. There was some other stuff going on that was just causing frustration around. And so I'm like, the next season of my life, I was turning 30. I'm like, the next season of my life, the next decade of my life is entrepreneurship. Like, I want to build my own thing. And so the Lord, I usually stay too long at the party, so God just kind of like slams the door and kicks me out. So, he did that for me 2 years ago, launched us into entrepreneurship and building kind of an e-commerce business in fitness was where I started. That kind of morphed into doing some fitness coaching through that fitness brand that I built, Backyard Shreds.

I love it.

Yeah. So, and I was like, ooh, this is what I, this is much closer to who I am and what I love doing. I love coaching people. I love like helping them figure out the unlock that helps them accomplish seemingly impossible goals. And I was doing that in fitness, but I'm like, I know fitness, I've done fitness for years. I enjoy it, but I love the game of business and that's the game that I really want to help people win at. So beginning of last year, I started doing business coaching, executive coaching on the side, working with founders and executives in their thinking and solving the puzzle of how they think and solve problems and communicate. And it just took off. And so I ended up shutting down the fitness side of things, the fitness coaching. I still have the e-commerce thing. It just kind of runs passively in the background, but now I'm just full on for the last 18 months or so, 19 months doing executive coaching and it's just So much fun. This is the Ideas by Mike podcast, where your future stops living in the past. Fear to fail, maybe to a plan I'm not sure yet.

So you have like on your LinkedIn profile, like, you know, everybody says create a catchy profile up there and you, you have 4 words, right?

Yeah, man.

They're, they're, it's Bibles, barbells, babies, and business. In that order. In that order, right? I didn't change those words in any way. It's the 4 Bs. Is that intentional?

Is that intentional as in the order?

Yeah. Is the order intentional or is it, or is it you, or is it just those are the 4 most important things in your life?

More the latter, although Bibles has to come first, right? Bibles has to come first. Um, but I wouldn't necessarily say that barbells ranks over babies. I've got 4 kids, 6 and under, so that's where the babies things come in. It's like I'm all in on fatherhood and fitness. And I've been in business for over a decade. No, since I was 19. So 12 years now, 13 years. So the Lord's been gracious to me in that way. Everything I ever wanted since I was a 13-year-old kid was to be married and have kids. So God has blessed me with 4 of them so far.

Right. So you, uh, so, so that, so that Backyard Shreds, right? It's a, it's a shed, right? I mean, let's just say, I mean, for those listening, like on, like just a listening and you're not seeing the video side of this, he literally is, let me paint the picture for you. He's got his, he's got his podcasting microphone up. He's wearing a black t-shirt and a hat. Into the background. There is a, there's a squat rack, right? With, I mean, he did, he threw some 45-pound weights on there for us just to show us that he's lifted big weights, right? He's got, it is a shed, a fitness shed that you are literally leading people through, right? Virtually, obviously, but you're leading people through your shed. To help people have life-changing conversations. I think I found somewhere that you have a reference to this something called a 12 by 20 dream machine. Is that your shed? Is that what you reference as?

Yeah, that's, we call it the Shred, which is where the business name Backyard Shreds came from. It was actually just a typo that my friend sent me. He is like, oh dude, like how's the shred coming? When I was setting up, like I was building this 12 by 20 shed on my property to be like a home gym and office. I got 4 kids, 6 and under. So like some separate space away from the house where it's quiet and I can work is a good thing. And so built this shed, or as my friend accidentally called it and then became kind of the brand, The Shred is 12 by 20 shed on my property. I designed it, built it myself, all kind of with the expectation that I wanted something that was Tall enough that I'm 6'4 and I want to be able to lift overhead. So, there's lots of room for me to lift and heavy enough floor that I can deadlift 450 pounds and not fall through the floor. So, I kind of designed it with some specs in mind specifically for a home gym. And so, that was the idea for the e-commerce business, Backyard Shreds, is I was like, hey, there's other people, because I posted about it on LinkedIn and people are like, dude, that's amazing. I would love to do something similar. Like people were asking me questions. So I'm like, you know what, man? Like, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to build a YouTube channel. I'm going to teach people how to like build this kind of thing. And I'm going to sell some building plans. Um, so that's what, that's what we did. Wow.

I love it. You know, from a shed with a, with a vision to a calendar, a calendar full now of life-changing conversations. Because that's the crazy war. It is. I do want to flip the script here. Um, so you talk a lot about identity change being the foundation of major life change. And so, uh, we're going to talk about that more in just a few minutes, right? But I want to ask you a very specific question because part of what I do at Wood Oak Financial is I talk to people who are looking to make changes in their life, but it's mainly from like working to retirement or it's, I'm approaching the end of my life and I want to leave a legacy. So if you could talk to your parents or grandparents and have an honest conversation about them, about what it's like from the shift of working to retirement. Can you apply some of your coaching that you've done? Like, you love to talk to people, you love to solve problems as a non-financial planner, but just as a mental coach, right? What does that conversation look like?

I'll give you one word, Mike. I'll give those dear, wonderful people one word. It's the word that is foundational to what I do in my coaching with high-performing executives and leaders. It's the word that unlocks the impossible goals that I help people accomplish. It's the word curiosity. Curiosity. And if you look at, you know, the story that I just told you about my life and all the weird things and crazy things that I've done and where I've come from and where I'm at now, Man, like curiosity is probably the thing that I'm most known for. And that's only half of the things that I've done and tried and crazy things I'm into. It's curiosity, just following the thread of curiosity, trying so many different things. And then ultimately, like my curiosity around people and how people think has led me into the coaching, but Curiosity. The opposite of curiosity is assumptions. Assumptions. Assumptions are a closed door of growth or learning or opportunity. An assumption says there's nothing more to see. There's nothing more to learn. There's nothing more to understand here. It is what it is. And it is exactly what I think it is. Curiosity goes, huh, what could, what could be true? What else could there be? What, what might I be missing? What, what if it is possible? Who knows? And so it's just, curiosity is the key that just unlocks that door and opens it up and takes a peek. And so curiosity is the, the, the great thing about like old folks. No offense, old folks. Love you. The great thing about people who have lived a lot of life is that you have so much experience. The downside is, and this is the fun thing about when I come into someone else's business, I am not an expert in their business. I'm not an expert in their industry. I'm not in— they are. I, and that's a good thing because what that actually allows me to do is come in with curiosity. Because I have no assumptions because I don't know anything. And I know that I don't know anything. And so, I just come in with curiosity and the power of ignorance to just ask questions and be curious. And so, naturally, I see things that everybody else is missing. So, the more experience you have, what can happen is the more life you live, the more you see patterns and certain things about the world, certain things about business, certain things about money, certain things about yourself that that you just start to believe those things as truth and you form assumptions.

I want to dive deeper a little bit there, right? Because I did not know you were going to say curiosity. I had no clue that's what the word was going to be or how you were going to answer that question. But I'm glad you did because I want to ask you a question. Let's say A retiree came into the Shred, right? They came into a virtual meeting with you and they said, coach, I have 30 years left and no idea what to do with them. And where do I start? Because like you're saying curiosity, but they're like, I don't know what that is, right? I showed up to work 8 to 5 every day. I packed my lunch. You know, I paid my mortgage on time and my house is paid off, right? I put my kids through school. I paid off every debt I have and I have a little bit of money, but like, where do I start? What would you say to them?

There are 4 doors. It doesn't matter if you're 17 or 70. There are 4 doors that stand between you and the next level of where you're trying to get to. And what you want and what you want to accomplish. Curiosity is the key that unlocks the doors, but these are the 4 doors that fundamentally we work through in coaching is clarity. There's an order, clarity, creativity, courage, and consistency. And so curiosity unlocks clarity, which is the first question that we have to answer, right? It's like, I don't even know what I want. Where am I trying to go? What do I want? What, what could be? But the real question isn't really what, what people want. Usually the question is, what, what's realistic to hope for? What's, what's actually even possible? And so that's where all those assumptions become baggage that we have to get rid of and we have to shed those and we have to use curiosity to unlock what could be possible. What could be possible if we, if we didn't have any limits on our thinking in, in all the baggage of what we think is possible or what we think is reasonable? What do you want? What could be— if, if the, if the world's your oyster and we've got a magic wand, man, all the money in the world, all the time in the world. Because 30 years is a lot of time. 10 years is a lot of time. 5 years is an extraordinary amount of time. To accomplish incredible things or make an incredible impact, whether it's financially or business or relationally. So, you know, even that's like, okay, what's possible in that amount of time? Curiosity creates possibility about what you want and to explore how it could actually be possible. So that's clarity. Then we got to be more curious and how could we actually create it? Creativity. And how are we going to accomplish it? And then creativity leads to courage, which is do the hard, scary thing. How are we going to find the courage to do the hard, scary thing that actually is going to produce the outcome that we want? Lean into the discomfort of that and then not do it just once. But to keep doing it until we get the results, consistency without getting discouraged or distracted. So that's curiosity, you know, without the time to go into it, like curiosity is the key that unlocks each one of those doors. Yeah.

So, wow, you just, that's some one-of-a-kind stuff right there, Cody. Like, you know, not once did you talk about like how much money you have in your 401 or how much you have in your IRA or What money you need to live on, right? The question that I framed is, what would you talk to your parents or grandparents about when they're going from working to retirement? And you gave an almost perfect answer, right, to that, right? That is absolutely spot on.

Money is just a lagging indicator. I say this to entrepreneurs all the time. Money's a lagging indicator of value and impact. It's a, it's money is a unit of measurement for value and impact. How valuable is something? Uh, well, it's $5, right? So what we're actually trying to measure is value. Money is just like, you know, feet or inches. Uh, currency, you know, is a little bit different, but you get the idea, right? Like it's a, it's a measurement.

Mm-hmm.

And what we're actually after is, is value and impact. And money is not the limiting factor. People's clarity and people's creativity and people's courage and people's consistency. That's the limiting factor for value and impact. That's what I'm after.

With the stock market at an all-time high, right? We are having this conversation at like the perfect time, right? Because, you know, stock market's at an all-time high. There's more cash out in the system and, you know, people don't know where to find value. And things, right? And you just, you summed it up without an MBA and, or a doctorate in quantum analysis, right? Or a CFP or designation by your name. You summed it up for like what retirees need to be looking for. And I appreciate that. That's why I wanted to pose that question to you because your perspective is unique and we need to be hearing your perspective more because it's a life perspective. Not a money perspective.

One more word on curiosity, Mike, which is really fun for this audience that we're talking to today. There are studies done that show that correlate curiosity and life expectancy. Curious people live longer, Mike. And so—

Keep, keep, keep going here.

Curious people live longer. They're like, they've done studies on this and like you have, you have You're more motivated, you're more driven, you have a higher quality of life, you're constantly learning, and you're just interested in life and solving problems and growth. And people who live like that and who are always challenging themselves and always excited to learn and grow, which is what curiosity is, people live longer. They've literally done studies in like nursing homes and retirement homes and things like that, correlating curiosity as one of the things that, uh, is correlated to people that have, have the longest life expectancy.

Wow. All right. So we talked about, you know, we talked about curiosity and the 4 doors, and then we even brought in longevity there. That was really great. I want to throw, I want to throw a word at you. And I want to ask you, is it real? Okay. You ready for this?

Balance.

Is that even a real thing?

I'm a coach. And so I don't answer questions with statements. I answer questions with questions, right? So I would be asking the person asking me, in this case, it's you, balance in what, in what sense? What are we balancing? Are we, are we like physically balancing? Uh, there's, that's definitely a thing.

Yep.

Are we balancing like time and money? Are we balancing work and life? We hear that phrase a lot, work-life balance. What are we balancing?

So like in this context of me asking you this is people want to balance, let's say the present with the future, right? I'm wondering if I'm giving too much now, And sacrificing too much for the future. You know, that's called the hustle, the hustle culture that we live in now. Like we're trying to hustle, we're trying to, you know, there's more paid time off that's out there, right? In the space where people get time off that goes unused and they carry it forward and they don't live in the moment. We, it's like, Is there enough in the balance that, you know, whether it's work-life balance, if it's life balance, are we, are we, are we just hustling too much, missing what's going, what's going on out there?

I like the term and I use the term priority balance because that's what people are really talking about when they're talking about work-life balance. It's priority balance. And in order to properly balance your priorities, you have to understand and know and have clarity around what the priority is at the moment that you find yourself in, or for the season that you find yourself in. Right now, my priority is this conversation. In this moment, there's nothing else that takes precedent over that priority today, right now, until, you know, 5 o'clock tonight. My priority is work, and then my priority changes to be with my family. In the season that I'm in right now, I have certain things that are priorities and certain things that are not. For example, financially, I'm not investing a ton into like stocks and stuff like that because I'm growing a business. So most of my financial investment is going into my business. Now, is that how I'm going to live my life all the time? No, it's the priority that I have for this season because I have a very clear priority. And so priority for your time, priority for your money, as far as balancing it and what you give it to, knowing what's important and what's, what's important in the season that I'm in is, is crucial. Mike Podcast, where your future starts.

What is one thing, Coach Cody, that somebody could do this week to stop feeling pulled in 5 different directions?

This is a simple tool when you're thinking about priority. A good way to just really tactically figure out what's actually important, because it's I work with this with business owners. Like, man, there's all these different things that we could be doing with the business. Maybe we should do this. Maybe we should do this. We should launch a new product. We should grow in this market. We should hire this person or this person, or which role should we, which department should we invest in? Write out all of the possible options for your attention, for your time, for your money, for your, uh, your priorities. Write them all out. Just get them all out there. It's sometimes it's just like, it's, it's up here in your head and it's just, it's really messy. So when you just visually seeing it, huge change. So do that. And then it's overwhelming to look at all the different things and try to compare them. Our brains just like don't work very well that way. Then it's just like March Madness. You're going to run a bracket and you just pick 2 things and you put them side by side and say, which one do I care about more? Which one's more important? Which one is driving towards the thing that I care about most? And you pick one. All right. And you have a winner, right? And then you just keep running a bracket until you get to— there's a book that I love, which is called The One Thing by Gary Keller. Until you get to the one thing that is the one thing that makes the biggest difference, the one thing that you care about most, the one thing that by so doing, everything else becomes easier or unnecessary in Gary Keller's words. Wow. So running brackets of just pitting 2 ideas against each other, 2 at a time, is really helpful until you kind of narrow it down into the key priority. Wow.

So Balance. We didn't determine this today, but balance might still be a myth. But we did talk about how priorities should be real. And I love that. I absolutely love it. So now I want to get to the part of the show where we stop talking about coaching and we actually do it. And this is going to be a part where I want to do something live with you, Cody. I want to show people how You know, there's this whole concept of whether it's therapy or coaching or leadership development where people are just like, well, I don't need that. I don't know what it looks like. And that's what I think people don't understand is they don't know what it looks like. And so I want to show people what it looks like, if you're okay with that. So let's say I'm your client. I walk into the Shred. Here I am. I'm ready to show up. And I say, coach, I want to make a major professional shift over the next 6 months, 6 months, a big one. Where do we start? And so here's the thing I want you to do is I want you to take me through it. What does it actually look like? What is it? Is it a session a month? Is it multiple sessions? Is it a lot of work for me to do? What's the very first thing you ask a client like me and what are you listening for in their answer?

I want to figure out what you really Want. Most people come to me wanting things that they don't really want.

Ugh. Yeah.

They want that, or, or wanting help solving a problem that they really don't need to solve, or creating an outcome that they don't really need to solve, to create because they think that it's going to, if, if, if I get them the thing that they're asking for, they think that's going to produce the thing that they actually want. I want to make $1 million. I want to make $10 million. I want to make $100 million. Great. Why? So I'm probably going to just ask a lot of questions about what you actually want and then figure out why you actually want that or what question you want to help— what you want help solving and why you actually want to answer that question. And what's the question behind the question? So we're going to dig into your thinking a little bit. And what I'm listening for is beliefs about what you want and what you think is possible, right? Because that's, it's a path of clarity, creativity, courage, consistency. So usually where we spend the most time first is clarity, figuring out what Mike actually wants, not what Mike thinks other people should, what he should do or what other people would expect him to do, or, you know, what he thinks will make him happy or get him closer to what he wants. We're going to start there.

So hold on. I want to stop you for a second, right? Because I want you to say that again, because there's somebody that's driving right now or somebody out on a bike ride. There's somebody maybe watching this from home and they just need to hear you say that again. Say that whole thing about clarity again, because it is, I think it's the point that drives home Why a coach and why somebody in your life that you could talk to about where you want to go is so important.

The first step is clarity, figuring out what the mission actually is, what we're actually trying to do. We're not trying to build a business. Why are we trying to build a business? Okay. Yeah. I'm going to grow your business. Why? Then what? So we're going to get really clear on what you actually want. And in that, I'm listening for beliefs, assumption, identity. What do you believe about what's actually possible? What do you believe about your value, your success, your happiness? And then we're going to, and I'm going to say things, I'm going to see things that no one else is seeing because I'm just, I'm listening more carefully and more curiously, and I'm asking deeper questions. And I'm going to say things, Mike, that maybe no one else is willing to say. And that's the hard thing about coaching. But the people who invest a lot of money in coaching, they love it. The CEOs and the leaders are like, yeah, man, give it to me. I can't get this type of feedback from people on my team, even my executive team. Like, tell me the truth. And so I'm going to tell you the truth and love of things that I'm seeing in your thinking. And the way that you're showing up that no one else is seeing. And then once we figure out what you actually want, then we're gonna, then we're gonna help you think differently, more creatively about how we're gonna overcome the comp— the, the, the problems and how we're gonna create the opportunities that we're trying to get to. So clarity, creativity, then we're gonna spark the courage that you need to take action. And I'm gonna walk with you over time. Usually 3, 6, 12 months, sometimes longer to work through that process over and over and over again in a way that produces consistency in your actions to get to where you want to go.

It's a plan. And people who listen to the Ideas by Mike podcast know exactly how I feel about plans. Write it down clear, concise, and simple, and then live it out. That's what we call the one-of-a-kind life here on Ideas by Mike. Um, and that's what I, that, that's what, as you just described that, it's the difference between a wish and a will, and it's a will to live, buddy. So you have been an absolutely amazing guest on the show, and I'd love to give our listeners a way to connect with you. And, and, and, and why would it be important? Or the entrepreneur to connect with you, if you just want to say that also.

Nobody needs coaching, especially not my clients. They don't need coaching. Like they're very, they're very successful people. They're doing really impressive things, but they're probably capable of far more than they think. And coaching is that Thinking partnership, that mental sparring, that sharpening of the tip of the spear that gives them the edge to accomplish more faster and have way more fun doing it. It's just, you get more results for less effort and you have a lot more fun doing it. That's been my experience with coaching. That's been my client's experience in coaching. And man, we all just, we all have blind spots, man. We all, things that we just can't see. And it doesn't go away when you make more money or when you get older. We're just, we're all too close to our own thoughts, our own behaviors, our own beliefs. And so we need somebody like a lighthouse outside of us shining in and giving us a different perspective. So we can't, people say in the coaching world, we can't read the label on the jar that we're in. And so we need somebody else to help us with that.

So guys, to connect with Cody, uh, his website is mycoachcody.com. mycoachcody.com. You can connect with him on LinkedIn because the man gives away his best stuff on LinkedIn. Like, it's amazing. If you, if you, if you go look at his LinkedIn, he's giving away his best stuff for free, guys, which tells you everything about how he operates as a human. And so whether or not your, you know, your next big shift is a new business, a new chapter, or the biggest transition of all, like working to retirement, you need a plan. You need a coach, guys. Although he said you may not need one, you need somebody who's going to help you move before you, before you feel ready. Uh, Cody, it's been an absolute joy having you on the podcast, man. You are, you are a freaking rock star.

Thanks, Mike.

Yeah, because guys, just remember, life doesn't wait. Never miss a moment. This has been the Ideas by Mike podcast. I'm Mike Milligan. We'll see you next time. Wow. What an amazing conversation on the Ideas by Mike podcast today. Just, I wanted to let you know again that I am an investment advisory representative with Advisory Alpha LLC. Ideas by Mike and I, the podcast, is, uh, is owned by Mike Milligan, LLC. Ideas by Mike, doing business as One Oak Financial, is an independent and unaffiliated entity of Advisory Alpha, LLC. Please do not take anything we said today, uh, and make investment or, or make investment changes without first consulting with a licensed financial professional. And this has been for educational purposes only. Until next time, this has been Mike Milligan with the Ideas by Mike podcast.

Educate, coach, plan. Never miss a moment.