In this candid discussion, Mike Andes, Luke, and a third participant (Speaker C) explore how a lack of trust between management and field staff can undermine business practices. Mike argues that without trust, systems like payāforāperformance, openābook management, or hiring changes are ineffective. The conversation centers on the decision to install cameras inside service trucks: management sees them as a tool to verify work (e.g., confirming a lawn was cut) and to catch safety issues like seatābelt nonāuse, while employees perceive them as surveillance, eroding trust further. Luke shares a clientācomplaint scenario where camera footage could prove work was done, yet the client accuses the company of spying. Speaker C reinforces the theme, noting ongoing distrust and even promoting a new hire despite lingering concerns. The dialogue illustrates how surveillance measures intended for transparency can backfire, deepening mistrust and jeopardizing performanceābased management models.
Let's assume for a moment that you don't have bad intentions and you want what's best for them. Why would we not tell the truth? In order to keep the lies from spreading.
I guess it's because I feel like the truth is going to be misconstrued anyway.
It will be misconstrued if they don't trust you. And right now they don't trust you. No, they don't. If you don't have trust of the team, no matter what you do, pay for performance will not work. Open book management will not work. Hiring more people and a different office person, a differentā will not work if they don't trust you.
Yeah.
You don't trust them, by the way. That's why the cameras went in the truck.
Joy. Our office manager. We would talk about doing things like, we should probably get cameras in the trucks because we don't know what these guys are doing. Or we'll have clients that call up and say, my lawn never got cut, and yet it was recorded that it got cut. Did it or didn't it? How are we going to know, you know? So if we have cameras in the trucks, well, we'll just go back to that day and see. Oh, there we are, parked right in front of Mrs. Jones' house. We did in fact cut her grass. Here's the proof. And she was all about it to me. But when the guys would come in and they were talking to her about it and I wasn't here, she's like, yeah, Luke's putting cameras in the trucks because he wants to spy on you. And it's like, no, I don't sit here in my office all day watching truck cams while drinking Kool-Aid, you know? Like, the image they have is that Luke's sitting in here watching me all day to catch me doing something. I'm not trying to catch you doing something wrong. I just happen to notice someone's not wearing seat belts.
I have told you that, that Iā that trust is a big issue. Even like with some of the guys, I don't trust them to do this, this, and this. And I say, I have told him this, this has been an ongoing conversation. Yes, because I do. I will takeā we have a guy that's been here 3 weeks, I promoted him today. He would not do that.
Yeah, I really want it to feel like a team, not like it's me doing all the work and I'm dragging them along, you know. And they don't want to feel that way either. Nobody wants to be in a company like that.
