Growing a $300,000 Lawn Care Business… with $1 Mows! | RoundUP

Hey, everyone, it's Mike Andes and you're listening to the Roundup podcast. Today we're going to be talking to another landscape entrepreneur. Hopefully today you get some tips, tricks and advice on growing your lawn care and landscaping business. Here we go.

This is P4pm let's go.

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Hey, everyone, it's Mike Andes. Welcome to another episode of Roundup. Today is my pleasure to introduce Daniel to the show comes from Arkansas and cutting edge lawn care. Really looking forward to the show today. It's our first kind of visit back to Roundup after a little bit of a hiatus. Been pretty busy, but really looking forward to bringing other landscapers on the show from a variety of different sizes of businesses, different stages with their focuses in the, in the industry in terms of services, getting their story of how they started, as well as some of the tips and tricks that they have for their business. So without any further delay, go ahead and bring in Daniel. Thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. Looks like you're out actually working today. You out mowing?

No, we're doing some landscaping, tree trimming. Mowing season's pretty much over here in Arkansas, so. But yeah, I just kind of skipped away to a quiet place and pulled over, so.

So I know, I know as a teenager, you kind of mowed lawns for about eight years, and then 2018, you got married and decided, hey, we're gonna do this full time, maybe, kind of. Why? What were you doing before? And then why did you change over into lawn care? Like some people would look at that as more risky, but yet you get married and you're like, hey, I'm going to go, you know, start a lawn care business. What was that change and why did you think that?

Well, I may not have explained it totally right, but to start from the beginning, I actually, I started mowing when I was 13. I don't know if my dad just wanted me out of the house or what, but he was just said, hey, why don't you go mow some of the neighbor's yards and make some money? And I like mowing. So I was like, sure, why not? And so he made me some business cards. I just passed them out, got a couple neighborhood yards. And then when I was. And really I made the decision to mow yards as my job. When I was 16, I got a part time job at a diner that was really close to my house and they closed down six weeks after I started. But I worked there long enough to realize that I made more money mowing. The five yards that I had than I did two weeks of working there. So that's when I thought, well, maybe I should just stick with this and make something out of it. And so I kind of just treated it as not like a career, just as a way to make money as a teenager. But I never really got another job. You know, I had just some part time stuff I would do here and there, but it was always my main focus. And then graduating high school, considered going to college, but there was nothing else I really wanted to do. So I decided just to stick with mowing. And then yes, Fast forward to 2019. I got married and it was still like my full blown gig at that point. Like there was nothing else that I was doing and I thought I had it pretty well. And then I, I got married. And having a woman in your life can kind of make you realize the true state of your life. And I just realized that what I was doing just really wasn't going to cut it. And so I realized for the sake of my wife, for the sake of our future, I had to either step it up or go do something else where I could have a real career. So I kind of really dove into it.

When you thought about like stepping it up to like, what was it just a matter of like application growth? Was it matter, like, hey, we're just not making enough money and I need to actually like buckle down, figure this out or what was the catalyst for that?

Yeah, essentially it was like just realizing at the time, back in 19, I think we, I did between 50 to 60,000, which, you know, if somebody heard that, they may think that's not too bad of a salary, but that's the whole business doing that. That's not, you know, that's not me. And so just kind of realizing the aspirations that we had as a couple and what we wanted to do in our future, I thought, well, this isn't just going to do it. And so I thought, okay, well I need more customers to make more money. But I don't really know how to get that. All my new customers pretty much came from word of mouth at that point, but I just didn't know what to do. And so there was a podcast that a friend of mine had told me about that I had listened to a couple of years ago, but never really dove into that much. And I thought, well, I'm going to pull this podcast back out and it's just a strict how to grow a business podcast. And so I turned it on when I was mowing a yard One day and I just started listening to nothing but that for like months. And just because it just, it just sucked me in at that point. And so they just taught you stuff about SEO, about creating a no brainer for your business, that just somebody sees that and they think, how can I say no to this offer? You know, we offer a $1 cut, so anybody who calls us if they're brand new to the company, they get their first lawn mowing for $1. You know, just no strings attached. So stuff like that. And so I started getting Google reviews, built a website and just started trying to become the highest rated company in Fort Smith, which is where we started. And now we're the second highest rated company in Arkansas. But because of that, all that work I put in, we're now, I mean if you search lawn care, anything, landscaping, lawn care, leaf cleanup, French drains, we're the number one search result on Google. And so I had to, it gave me the freedom to get off HomeAdvisor because I hate HomeAdvisor and I got to stop paying for my leads at that point because people would just find us online and call us. And so at that point it just became explosive and I couldn't even keep up with it at that point. And so that's when back in 2020, I actually hired my first full time employee because it kind of went from, do I want to take money out of my pocket to get done sooner? And it went to, oh, I can't even get all of my work done anymore and still have time to go meet customers. So hiring this guy actually makes me more money. And so it was a really neat transition and it honestly happened so fast. And it was just because of applying simple principles that I heard in this podcast, like setting goals, get up early, stuff like that, you know, get reviews from your customers and all that kind of stuff.

So many people are going to probably wonder what's the name of the podcast? They can go listen to it.

Sure. The podcast is the Thrivetime Show. It's based out of Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I started listening back in, like I said, 2019, 2018. The content, it's still a good podcast, but I would say the 2018, 2019 content is just, it's incredible. And they have an in person workshop that I went to, I've been to a couple times as well. And that also is, is a life changing experience just to go get two days of just a fire hydrant of business. Simple, nothing complicated. It's just down to earth. Here's the simple steps to Run a business and grow it. And then you're surrounded by other entrepreneurs and like minded people who are, people who are there with you, people who are way ahead of you. It's just a, it's just an awesome place to be. So I recommend this. Anybody who's looking for a good content.

Let me kind of step back a little bit in the story. And before we talk about, you know, 2020, 2021, the growth you've had, the story of you either were you married already or were you, you know, your fiance when you decide, hey, we're going to date this full time?

I was, let's see, I would say before I even had a girlfriend, it was, I graduated high school and my mom was really pushing me to go to college and I didn't want to go to college and it was just kind of that spiteful. I'm just going to do this full time. And you can say it was full time. But then as I started to date my wife and we got engaged, then it really was a decision of, okay, am I telling her parents that I'm mowing lawns full time or am I going to get another job? So I would say at that point it definitely was kind of a secondary decision of, this is my full time, this is my full time gig. And then being about six to eight months into marriage, late 2019, kind of realizing that it just wasn't going to cut it long term, as I was right now was then I made that decision to just go all in, nothing held back. This is all I'm going to do, you know, burn the ships, essentially.

What has it kind of been like though, in terms of the transition from, you know, being single and really just fending for yourself versus having the accountability of a wife, you know, potentially a family. And was it something inside you, like you kind of needed that to push you? I can have that kind of external pressure or was it really validation from her parents? Like what was that kind of intrinsic kind of motivation?

I definitely needed the accountability from my wife. She's a, she's a, she's a great, I mean, obviously she's great. I married her, but I told her I'd give her a shout. I told her I'd give her a shout out because it really was her that pushed me, you know, I mean, it was kind of her not being rude, but just kind of being honest and saying, I'm not cool with the way things are right now, you know, because as a single man, I just had to do enough work to pay for My bills, which weren't very much. And I, you know, I always knew in my head, I've got these yards to go do. I can make this much money to pay my bills. But then getting married, I had somebody else that I had to prove to, hey, we're totally fine. We can pay for our food and all this kind of stuff. And her, you know, just not always being able to see that we've got all this money in the bank, we're good to pay our rent and everything, because I was just living day by day. I was, I was very carefree. So, yeah, it was very much having that accountability, having somebody depend on me. You know, just when you're fending for yourself, it's one thing, but when you got somebody that depends on you to put food on their table and everything, it just changes the game. And now we have a baby, and now it's, you know, all the more intense. But. But we've come a long way and, you know, I'm very happy with the growth we've had, and my wife is much happier about it. But, yeah, she definitely pushed me a lot.

Was it sort of the same way when you even had the employee in 2020? Was it a matter of like, hey, now it's beyond even. I actually have to make sure that I'm providing enough for other people. What was that like, even that transition there as well?

Oh, man, yeah, for sure. Like, I was very hesitant to hire employees. I mean, I would hire a friend here and there to help me out if I was really swamped, got rained out a bunch of days, and I had some friends who would say, hey, you know, do you need full time help? And I was just always terrified to hire anybody because I thought that's, you know, somebody else, and if they have a family, their family that I have to provide enough work for, to pay them, for them to feed their families. And so, yeah, hiring it was this guy named John, and he just found me on Facebook and said, hey, are you hiring anybody? I've been working in lawn care for four to five years, and it was at the point where I just, I had no choice. It's like, I have to hire somebody or I just have to cut a bunch of people loose and just happy with where I am and do it all myself until I'm, you know, 60 or whatever. And so, yeah, it was intense and it was definitely nerve wracking. But when I saw how much more we could get done with when John came on board, it was incredible because now I thought, wow, I have somebody that I can leave here to mow yards while I go talk to the person down the street. You know, if I'm not here, the work keeps on going. And so just seeing it was very nerve wracking at first, but just seeing how much more money we were able to make by bringing somebody on board, it put my mind to these very, very quickly. But then the off season comes around and that's what always made me really nervous, you know, am I going to have to let them go? But thankfully, when I started implementing all the SEO material that I learned at the thrivetime show, work through the winter really didn't. Wasn't a problem that much anymore. People would call us about leaves, mulch, drainage and all kinds of stuff like that. So I never, I haven't had to let anybody go through the winter since I hired John in 2020. It's been a blessing.

I kind of know what I've talked about. Catalyst to growth, right? Like going from part time, then you went full time, you know, kind of kick things in high gear and then you had employees and another even further catalyst to growth at each of those three stages. How did your pricing, how is that affected? Like when you were by yourself solo, kind of like part single to where, hey, we're going to buckle down and make this thing happen to now I have employees and my overheads more. Did your pricing change and not just your pricing like dollars per hour, but also how you did your estimates?

Yeah, no, for sure. And honestly, it's still something. I still don't charge enough. Sometimes there's, I need to raise prices on, on some people. There's yards I've had for, you know, eight years that I've only raised the price $5 or something like that. But, but yes, definitely when John came on, especially when I had another crew, you know, that was, that was the big point when I had another truck and crew that was working totally without me and I wasn't there, especially on the days where I wasn't even producing revenue. I was just out doing estimates and stuff. That's when I started to see the numbers of, okay, I have to pay these guys this much and they're only producing this much. And so that's when it started to really get into my head of running the numbers and realizing, okay, to pay these guys this much per hour, they have to be producing this much per hour or this much per day and that sort of thing. So that's when I did start to raise my prices, of course. And then this year with gas prices have gone just through the roof. And then all the trouble it was to find employees this year we raised our base pay and all that kind of stuff. So that caused us to raise prices even more. But it was necessary.

And listening to your show a lot, I've realized the necessity of making sure that you're charging a fair price that allows you to give that quality premium service and just kind of making that clear. If a customer says something about the price, I just say, look, I understand, but gas prices are up and good help is hard to find. And I'm charging a price that makes me know I can pay for good help to give you the best work we can, you know, we can possibly give you. And most people don't really have a problem with it. It's so it hasn't been too bad.

Hey everyone, it's Mike here. Just wanted to say a big thank you for listening to the podcast this far. I also wanted to make sure you are aware that on lawncaremedia.com we've made available templates for you to use to grow your lawn care and landscaping business. Whether it be door hangers, postcards, flyers, or yard signs, you can actually use these templates. Get more customers today. Check out lawn caremedia.com and we'll see you there.

Just so everyone kind of knows those through the past three years, 2019, 2020, 2020 21, expected revenues. I know this year you said probably around 300,000, but take me through, like 2019 was a little bit more part time because I kind of look at it like the last three years. If you've, you've gone through stages of growth, right? First, one part time, second full time. Now you have employees. What, what were the stages of revenue? And before we talk about even next year, your goals.

Yeah, no, for sure. And that's a good way to look at it too. Even though I didn't really have another job, I still treated it more as a part time thing. But 2019 we were doing. Honestly, we probably would have done about 30 to $40,000 in 19, but I got a hold of the lifetime show in October and October.

I did triple the amount of revenue I did any previous month in that year. And so getting that, you know, I kind of kicked myself for not starting it sooner in the year because we could have had a much better year in 19. But we finished out 19 between 50 and 60 thousand dollars of revenue. And then I just took these principles and went to the conference, the workshop in February and just took this with me into 2020. And then in 2020 we did a little over 120,000 of revenue. And this was with one full time employee and a part time employee. And you know, like I said, occasionally maybe I hire another friend on a Friday or something if we got rained out. But for the most part I had one guy three days a week, another guy every day of the week with me. And then this year now we have three trucks that go around. There's a full time mowing leaf cleanup crew. We've got a dump truck that does a lot of landscaping and stuff like that. And then there's a truck that I drive around. But. But yeah, it's grown so much and now we've got three full time guys. Back in the spring we would have, we had a few more and then it's got so hard to find anybody in the summer. But yeah, this year we're expected to hit.

Right at 300,000. We are set up to hit maybe over 300,000. But the holidays coming up, I don't know, trying to give the guys a little time off for holidays that might affect it, but I'm very confident we'll hit 300,000.

You mentioned one thing I want to kind of dig a little bit into because it's probably going to go contrary to what I've talked or thought about in the past. So I want to kind of learn, even for myself. And that is the $1 mo. How has that been? Because I obviously went to your website. You know, it's like, hey, your first MO is $1. And you know, we've tested it before and our, our conclusion typically has been that it attracts a lower quality client. What have you done to prevent that from happening and making sure that you do have a higher attention from that customer going forward?

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. And I was terrified of that happening, honestly. And because I thought people are going to be calling me with, you know, 10 acre yards saying I want my $1 cut. And so, so I put a, I put a limit on it that it has to be under an acre. It's not on the website, but if they call asking about it, I let them know. Less than an acre and it's a brush.

We want our whole lot level. That's like five feet tall.

Exactly. Yeah, that honestly has happened. Oh man. But I honestly, it's kind of a trust game and I do try to fill them out like by the phone calls and there's, you know, sometimes I'll go to the yard and look at it and I'll, and I'll kind of just get a feeling like we don't need to mess with this one. And I'll just tell them, I'll just say, hey look, we are three weeks out. So here's a number of a friend of mine. They don't do the $1 cut, but they can do a great job for you. The first year we did it, I had a, I'm trying to think it was, it was over a 90% conversion rate from the $1 cut to a full time lawn care schedule. Since I've hired, you know, there's other crews going out without me and it's, and my crews are great. I don't really have any complaints with those guys, but it is just harder to be there and ensure the quality control. But the conversion rate is still very high and it's still, it's still proven to be worth it though.

My question is like during the spring rush when you already are getting a ton of leads, ton of work from your existing customers and you are actually three, four weeks booked out, right? And you get someone that say, for example, is a few, you know, few inches overgrown, but you're like, hey, I'll just take the hit. You know, I'm going to lose 50 bucks on the first one, but I'm fine after that. And, but now you have to wait three weeks and it's going to be a foot and a half. Like, do you just eat that or do you just be like, hey, like I can only take so many customers because of this and even my, my, my big thing is on like P4P for example, I have to give the guys budget hours. Like, how do I do that? Like, how have you dealt with the customer that really isn't trying to scam you? But like you are booked out and it's going to take you some time to get that, that job.

Right, right, right. That's a good question. And that makes sense. P4P, that's something that I've, I want to implement. I just haven't, I haven't pulled the trigger yet and I need to, but so I haven't, I haven't really messed with how that works with P4P. But in that case, if I am that booked out, then I won't even do the first cut. I'll just say we're booked out, we can't help you. Here's the number. I always will refer somebody else to them because I also tell them like, we will not. Usually I'm like, I'm not Going to mow your yard less often than every two weeks. If I mean, I can, but I'm going to charge you a very, very high price. So typically, yeah, if it's like overgrown that first time, I'll do it and then I'll just kind of eat it on the second time, you know, like, not, not like gouge them on the second price. Although some people are hilarious. Some people will call me and I'm like, it's a dollar cut. And they say, I can't pay you a dollar. I say, well, that's what I'm charging you. You don't know I can't do that. And I'm saying, well, if you want to give us a tip, that's on you, but I'm not requiring anything more than a dollar. And so some people will pay us a full price anyway, and some people will even say, charge me a dollar on the second cut after you get this one under control and charge me full price here. So a lot of people are very nice about it. But yeah, that's one thing. If I don't have time to keep it on a good schedule, then I just tell them I can't. I can't take care of them at the moment.

The thing I like about it for, for, like, I kind of see as once a company is trying to be more profitable and maybe like less variability, it's. It's not as a good thing, but definitely trying to grow and scale. I see the, like, the massive benefit of it because it just reduces that level of where they have to trust you to be on their property or trust that you're doing a good job. It's like, look, I'm doing it for a dollar. Like, you go sneeze and a dollar comes out. So like, you might as well try us out. And how I kind of look at it, the marketing, right? It's your customer acquisition cost. You would otherwise spend 50 or $60 on ads. Hey, a dollar. No, hey, yes. My cost really to get that customer is 50 to $60 of that first cut.

Right, right. Well, that's a great way to look at it. I hadn't thought about it, honestly. But that's true. I mean, when I was using HomeAdvisor, you know, they charge you anywhere from 20 to $40 for a number. They just give you a phone number. And my conversion rate on HomeAdvisor was probably 50% or less, you know, so I was spending 40 to $60 per customer anyway. And what I found about. And you're right about it's great for growth. It's something that I thought about not continuing forever. And even this year when we've gotten super busy, it's something that, especially towards the end of the season when maybe there's only one or two cuts left, unless somebody asked me about it, I don't even mention it because on our truck it says, ask about our $1 cut. So I treat it as a promote, like as a coupon almost. If they say, I saw your $1 cut, I'm more than happy to give that to them. But if they just call and say, hey, I want an estimate, I'll give them an estimate.

What if. What if you did it? What if you even did it, like, during just the times when it was like, kind of like off season, like in terms of maybe like not the one month of spring rush and one month in the fall where it takes off just because, like, what I see being the issue is like, because we've thought about, even locally, it's like, look, we're going to have 20 lawns a day that we would have to cut for $1. Well, that's immediately probably a couple thousand dollars worth of revenue per day. We're getting so many leads, but obviously you figure out enough to where, hey, if I'm getting, say, a few a day, I can still make this work and grow much faster.

Right, Right, exactly. And that's another reason I've thought about cutting it off at some point. Because when I first started doing that, I didn't have SEO. I really wasn't getting a ton of calls a day. But the few calls I did get, it just stopped them in their tracks. You know, they're calling around saying, hey, I'm getting prices. And so when I tell them this is a dollar one, they just stop calling anybody else. And they said, and, well, and it also allowed me to, because it was hard. Sometimes in the summer rush and spring rush, it's hard to get around to go look at people's yards. You know, they want a price. And I say, well, I have to come by and look at it. And so what it also allowed me to do was to say, your first cuts, $1, I can schedule you for Tuesday. We'll be in your neighborhood. And then when Jason, my foreman, goes to mow it, I call Jason say, how much does that yard cost? He tells me, and then I go back to them with the price. So it helped save some time there as well. But. But you're definitely right. It. The more we grow and as we're this summer, we were getting so many phone calls a day, and if it gets to that point where, yeah, we got $21 cuts, and then we're losing $2,000 a day, well, that. That's not ideal, obviously, but the retention was what was important. And so as we get to that point where my growth. I'm trying to maybe slow down the growth of the mowing anyway, like, I always like to get landscaping and drainage and stuff like that, then I might start to pull back on that. Or like you said, limit it to a certain time of year. That's actually a really good idea that I hadn't thought of before.

I think it's the power of the offer, like. Like you said, getting them a stop in their tracks.

Right.

Like, I'd almost be inclined to say, we're going to give you a dollar. That way I could say on my trucks, like, we pay you to come. We love mowing grass so much. We'll come to. We'll pay you to come mow your lawn for the first time.

Yeah, I know people who do stuff like that. And that's. I mean, who would not take that? You know, that's. That's the thing. It's like, when they hear that, you think, and I got this from a haircut place. They offer a $1 fresh haircut, and they get you in the door. Because you mean, who's going to say no to a $1 haircut? And they get you in the door, and Normally it's a $45 haircut, but it's an incredible experience. And you're just like, man, I liked that. I want to sign up for this. And so I just tell my guys, I'm like, look, when you go there, you've got to make sure there's nothing they can complain about. You knock on the door, you ask them, do you see anything that's wrong with this property? Anything that we miss, please tell us now and we'll fix it. Because I just want to blow their socks off, you know, and just realize, well, this is a $60 cut. I mean, I don't know how I can go anywhere else, you know, But.

A lot of times I see it working well. A lot of times I see it working well in industries, kind of like haircutting mentioned, where you have a low variable cost, right? So adding one more client to a barbershop doesn't really add a whole lot more cost. They have the lease, they have the barbershop, and they have the chair. They have the equipment as well as industries where the margins are high enough. Right. The cost of goods sold is low enough to where, like adding one more customer, I can do it for a dollar. But like, whereas I was operating on a 5% margin. And this is where I kind of see, you know, issues with the $1 thing, is when companies have a very low margin, are giving services for a dollar, it takes another 20 lawns to make up for that, that $1 mo. Right? So, yeah, I think it's a great. I think it's a great thing to think about though, especially when you're growing like you have the past couple years.

No, you're absolutely right. Well, and the goal is to kind of get in our SEO, like I said, being having so many Google reviews at this point that nobody else in Fort Smith has anywhere close to the amount of reviews, five star reviews that we have. So, you know, we're kind of getting to that point where we don't even need that to sell somebody. They just call us and say, can you come on my lawn? You know, so that's kind of the goal. The goal was to get to that growth, get as many people in. And we also kind of use it as a way to say, hey, we'll come mow it for a dollar. All I ask of you is that you leave us a review if you like the service, you know, that sort of thing. Because those reviews were what really kicked us up in our SEO there. And so now it's getting to the point where people will just call us and say, I just want you to come on my lawn. Come give me a price. And so we've had a lot less people ask about the $1 cut this year than the previous year.

I think it's important. Like you said, they're like, what got you to where you've been at now is not going to be the thing that gets you to the next spot. Right. And what got you from, you know, you know, 2030 to, you know, 300 prospect might not be the thing that gets to a million. Which, speaking of 2022, that's the goal. So what are the things you're doing over the winter to kind of prep for that? Obviously we're heading into November, December and then January, somewhat more of a sl. What things are you doing? Whether it be from software marketing, strategic hiring, what are you doing to get ready for next spring?

Man, that's a good question. This, like over the off season one, I want to keep my crew because we've got a really, really solid crew that we were able to Build this year through very hard times of trying to build crews. And so my goal, number one goal is just to make sure we've got enough work to keep these guys, because if I can keep these guys going into the spring, then we can have a great. A great, great year. And so my goal is to kind of work more on systemizing everything, creating checklists and processes so that it's easier for Jason and Joel to train new guys that come on the crew. And I don't have to be there because sometimes when we hire a new guy, if he has no experience, then I'll just personally go out there and walk him through how to use the weed eater, you know, and then it's eating up my time, and I can't go give an estimate. So the, you know, the goal is to just work more on all that kind of stuff. Getting. We use Jobber, which has been great, but even now, I still don't optimize everything it has, you know, so really getting into Jobber, hopefully getting somebody that can take phone calls and stuff for me to get me out in the field a little bit more so that we can really utilize the linear process of that so that it just take the call, book the request, do the request, make the quote, do the job, bring the invoice, you know, just as smooth and linear as I can. Make everything the way jobber has it. The more we could just blow up, and it would just shave off little things here and there to increase efficiency and productivity.

Have you run the numbers, Daniel, in terms of looking at, okay, next year, we're going to need someone in the office. We're going to need someone to kind of take those calls, et cetera. That is obviously going to boost the overhead cost significantly. Have you kind of run the numbers in your mind, what you need to do in terms of revenue just to make up for that person and then say, like, look, if I don't, let's say just say 500. If I don't get 500, like, I'm literally getting the same amount as I did this year, because obviously you're trying to go from 300 this year, a million. It's a massive step.

Right?

What's. What were kind of the numbers that, you know, obviously it's a lofty goal, but, like, even if you came at 800, that'd be a great year. So, like, what were those numbers? Like, why. Why are you taking that big step and have you run the numbers on that overhead?

Yeah, no, that's a good question. I'll Be honest. I haven't run, like, hardcore numbers, you know, I have in my, you know, just kind of in my head. I know if I pay them this much a week, then they've got to produce this much. But. But I know that usually the biggest waste, not the biggest waste, but one of the biggest killers of my time is just having to sit at a computer, you know, um, because the guys are great about getting out there and doing the work. Um, and I like to go out there and give the estimates and kind of be the face that people see and make all that stuff. But it constantly just stops me to have to take phone calls all day long. You know, that just. It just kills everything. And that was one thing. Kind of rewinding to that first year when I hired John, that was one of the biggest things I realized is having somebody that never stops when the phone rings was incredible. You know, having that progress, that's always happening, no matter when I have to stop, take a phone call, answer a text message. And so when I look at it, and honestly, because when I'm out in the field, I'm the highest producing employee, you know, like, nobody is more efficient than I am in the business. And so to me, when I'm able to hire that person and I have to do it when I know we can afford it, but when I hire that person to just be there to take phone calls, put them in the jobber, it allows me to get back out in the field and, you know, just make that much more money.

And I've said to some people too, like, you can't. It's not. You can't afford not to do it, because if they can take a minute off of your plate, that is a minute of your time, which is like, worth 60, 80, $100 plus an hour. It's not a matter of, like, well, if I don't. If they don't do it, I can just do it, right. It's like you're taking for the most valuable person in the business. And even if they're half as efficient as you, it still makes monetary sense. Especially you scale past 300.

Yeah, for sure. And it's something that it may not make sense to do it right now when we're going into the off season and I've got a lot more time on my hands. But it's one of those things where maybe looking into February, I hire somebody, start to onboard them into how to use jobber so that when that spring rush hits, because, man, that spring rush is what's so Frustrating is when you're out there trying to get all these spring cleanups done, trying to freshen up everyone's mulch, and your phone is just ringing off the hook and you feel bad because you want to answer these new customers, but you're not getting anything done. And so that's kind of what I'm looking at. Not at this very moment, because I've got. I've got more time to do it right now, but. Yeah, exactly. It's. I know in the future it's something I can't afford not to do.

Absolutely. Very cool. I wanted to mention one thing, too, and that is, you know, in the form you had submitted, which, by the way, if anyone wants to be on the show, they can always fill out the form down below in the link in the description. But if, you know, you mentioned about your faith and how that is a big part as you grow and kind of the ambitions behind the business, is that along with your family, kind of the main drivers, what is the thing that motivates you to keep growing the business? And have you already decided what size that needs to be the business in order to actually accomplish those spiritual or family financial goals?

Yeah, that's a great question. As far as determining what exactly size it needs to be, I haven't really done the math on that, but. But yeah, that's. That's another thing. When I wrestled on do I do this? Do I. Is this my career? Do I do this full time? Because I'm a. I was a preacher's kid growing up, and so.

I knew it. But like, being a, you know, being involved in my local church and volunteering in some sort of ministry has been very important to me for a long time. And so there was even a time I considered going into ministry full time, you know, and so there was a question for me of how do I, you know, and I don't know whoever's listening that's not into the gospel. I'm just going to talk about it anyway. But how do I give everything I have to the furtherment of the gospel as a lawn care company? And it really just came down to I knock on so many doors a day. I talk to so many people. You know, there's. There's a lot of, like, older people that I. That we service, and they have nobody else to talk to. And I would just stand there and talk to them for so long, and I get to just kind of be alive in some of these people's world. And so the goal for me and what I realized Is you don't have to be a pastor, a vocational pastor, to give everything you have to the further men of God's kingdom. You know, it's. If I do my job as unto the Lord and not unto men, you know, like, I think about it a lot when I'm doing this $1 cut. And really I should be charging a hundred dollars. Overgrown yard, I think, man, like, I should just cut it crappy and leave it because this is what they're paying me for. But I think, no, like, I'm not going to do that because if they come out here and say, wow, I can't believe you did that good of a job for a dollar, it gives me a chance to say, well, I'm blessed every day with things I don't deserve, so I can't not pass that along, you know, and just things like that, that give me openings to, to share about the gospel and things that Jesus has done for me. And so that's, that's my goal, is to grow it to a point where my wife and I can just, you know, we can live a comfortable life with our kids, but we can also be just super generous, you know, supporting our church missionaries and just friends and people in need and stuff like that. There's a friend of mine in Oklahoma, his name is Josh, and he's got a humongous irrigation company. But that's one of his goals. Like he's built this monster company with. One of his top three goals is just, he just wants to give away money to anybody, you know, he just wants to help anybody that needs it, you know, he said, I just, I. He's like. And he's a Christian, but he says, just saying I'll pray for you is not enough to me. He said, I want to. When somebody tells me I, I can't pay rent this week, he said, I want to hand them that rent money right there. And so he's inspired me very much to also kind of live that out. To say, we build this company to show what God can do through a stupid person like me to glorify his kingdom and be generous and spread the gospel.

Absolutely. Well, I really appreciate you coming on, Daniel. If anyone wanted to reach out or have any questions for you, do you have an email or just you're going to your website that they could contact you from?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the website is Cutting Edge fs as in Fort Smith dot com. Anybody can email me at daniel cutting edge fs.com. but yeah, there's. That's the website. You can find out pretty much anything you need to know there or there's a place to submit a form to get in touch with us on there as well.

Very cool. I really appreciate it. Daniel, thanks for coming on, man.

Thank you. It's an honor. Thank you.

Thanks so much for tuning in today to another episode of Roundup. If that was something interesting to you and you learned something, comment below, share the message with other landscapers so we as a community can come together and learn and grow our businesses. If you would like to be on the Roundup show and actually interview with me just like we did today, feel free to go in the description. There's a link there. Fill out the form and we'd love to talk to you if you are wanting to share with the industry and help other people grow their business. Thank you so much. I'll see you next episode.