How Big Should Your Lawn Care Business Be?

Hey, everyone, it's Mike over@landscapebusinesscourse.com today I'm going to be answering a question that came in via email. And if you ever do have a question, just email me@landscapebusinesscoursemail.com I get back to most of you. Sometimes take me a month or two, but I do try to get back to you guys. So I'm gonna read this question. Not a long episode today, just kind of answering this question came from Samuel Rankin. And so I'm gonna go and read the question and then just kind of give my 2 cents on it. So he says, hi, Mike. I'm getting stressed with business. I'm growing 3 times 3x this season, 54 to 150 in top line revenue. So he's doing 150,000 in top line revenue. Last year he did 54. I'm getting out of the field to focus on sales, but many of these customers hired Sam Rankin and not Anchony Lawn and landscapes. How do I make that change and lead them through that? A couple good friends and I have had this problem and we've been. And we've tried talking through it, but we keep spinning around that issue. How do we handle the growth? I've taken your proposition of plowing cash back into the business to expand and expand a little faster than necessary to fuel desire for growth. I don't take a salary or any money from the business yet either. I. I've listened to the whole run of your podcast twice and know you have an incredible wealth of business knowledge that I would love to tap into if possible. We've implemented a lot of what you've talked about in episodes. Team culture, not a rule culture. I've told them we are a sports team, all pulling the same rope. There are sometimes, I might be the captain, but when it comes down to it, I'm still doing the same things they are. For reference, I am 23. I'm 18 in lawn care for 13 years and see it as a career, not just my summer job. Any help would be hugely appreciated. Stay safe, Sam Rankin. All right, so a couple questions here that Sam wrote in. Number one is that he's grown a whole bunch in the past year, so he's tripled in size. And so that's fantastic. With growth comes a lot of problems, issues, growth, pain, stretch marks, whatever you want to call it that comes with that amount of growth. And so, first of all, he talks about the issue of customers really focused on the fact that they are buying from him as an individual, as A person instead of him, his business. So, you know, he says, many of these customers hired Sam Rankin, not Ankeny Lawn and Landscape. So how do you make that transition? So one way to make that transition is when you're in the sales, you're the salesperson, and you're in that gap of like, you know, a couple hundred thousand, a few hundred thousand in revenue, or even up to like a million. When you might not have an estimator that's full time. What you can do is start prepping your customers to get to know that they are in communication with the customer, with the office, and not with you directly. So if you're the estimator, you grow. So if Sam's going on doing the estimates, what I would recommend him doing is on his business card, have it say estimator, not business owner or anything like that. And when he tells the customer that the office is going to be getting back to them, say that the office is going to be getting back to them, not himself. Don't say, I'll call you back tomorrow. So the office will be in contact with you tomorrow. Even if that point, you're still doing the estimate and you're still the one that's going to be in contact and sending the email, and you are the office. Maybe you don't have an office manager yet. Even if that's the case, still set up the customer to realize that you're the estimator, that the office will be in touch with them, and that a project manager will. Will be the one to come and do the work and manage the crew. Now, at first, that might, that person might be, you might be the estimator, you might be the office manager, and you might be the project manager. But get the customer starting to think that there's roles within your company and you can even say, you know what, as the estimator, you could say, you know what, I'm going to get this back to the office and I'm going to see if I can be the project manager on this job. Something like that is better because they start looking at you as the estimator and then that you also do the project management of the jobs, but that you aren't necessarily the person that they have to depend on for all their communication and for every little aspect of the job. So that way when you show up to the job and you're the project manager, they're okay with you leaving a few employees and then you leaving and going doing other estimates or doing other work you need to do. Because you're the project manager. You aren't the one actually installing the work. And so I would start prepping. The way to get started in this process as you grow the business, Sam, is to really start prepping your customers for it by saying, hey, I'm the estimator. I'm going get this information back to the office. They'll be in touch with you about scheduling. The office is the one that is in charge of the billing. Like, you should never take payment directly. Like, the office is a really good way to have a third party close on things. Like, for example, someone's pressing you on numbers. You can say, hey, look, I'm just here to get the number of hours and the materials that the job is going to take. And the office will send you a detailed estimate with itemized prices and give you exactly what the price the job is going to cost. And that's a good way for a third party close. But more importantly, when it comes to you as the owner, not wanting to be in, you know, having that relationship with the customer, they're only going to buy from you. It's really important that you start delineating between roles. And then as the business grows, you as the estimator, you as a salesperson, there really is an office manager that is going to then be setting the estimate. It's going to be in back and forth, setting up the job, collecting, you know, 50% down on a landscape job, getting them on the schedule, all of those sort of things. And there really is going to be a different project manager who is going to be actually on the job. And you know, first example, if I go sell a job right now, an estimator in my company goes out and sells a job right now, then they are going to hand that off to an office manager, an office assistant who's going to set up the job. He's going to get 50% down, he's going to get everything scheduled, and they're going to hand it off to a different person, a project manager, and that person is going to actually get the job installed. And they're just going to take the video that the estimator took at the property and install the job to spec. And according to the estimate, the project manager is going to be the one that is interacting with the customer. The estimator never has to go to the property again. The office manager never has to go to the property. It's the project manager that goes to the property. And so starting out, when you're even 200, 300, 400,000 in revenue, maybe have an office manager, maybe you don't have separate project managers. Still, if your objective is to grow to a million plus and you want to eventually have those roles, start setting up your customers now for them to realize there are different roles within the business and that down the road it might not be you in every single one of those positions. And I would really use it though, when you are in those positions, when you are the estimator, office manager and the project manager, use it as a sales tactic. So say it like this, hey, I'm the estimator. I'm going to get these numbers back to the office. The office will send you an estimate and get you scheduled, and then the project manager will be here to install the project. I'm going to try to be the project manager on this job. I'd love to install this one myself and literally use it as a sales tactic. And that's actually a great way to sell a job. Versus customers don't want to be handed off. And it's our goal to make it as seamless as possible from estimator to office to project manager. However, from the customer standpoint of view, they would like to stay with the same person through the whole process and that's why they'll lean that direction to you, the owner, if you are facilitating the fact that you're the estimator and then you're also emailing them from your personal email and calling them from your cell phone. And then you show up to the job and you're managing the project. So like, creating those clear roles is important. And then as you grow, you put other people into those roles and your customers are more okay with that was the first question. Second, growth. Our second question is about growth. How do we handle the growth?

And he's just wanting to know about, you know, talking about culture and things like that. He feels like, yeah, so really talking about culture, but then also feeling like, hey, we're a part of a team, but yet I'm still the captain sometimes. And where he's getting that from is I talk about a lot of times about like a football team, that everyone on the team has the same goal and that is to get the ball to the end zone. But yet there's different roles and responsibilities and positions within that team. And you know, you have defensive linemen and then you have wide receivers and you have a coach on the sidelines and none of those individuals can like, you know, a defensive lineman can't say to the offensive.

To the, to the wide receivers. And Say hey, you guys are so thin and small and you can't lift £400 like we can. They can't say that because that wide receiver's role is to get, is to be fast and quick and nimble whereas the defensive lineman is to block and protect and be strong and not have to move really, really quickly. And so there's just different roles and responsibilities. And then the coach is on the sidelines and it's wrong for the coach to step out on the field and try to play someone's position. The team is going to lose. And so if everyone just stays in their same, in their, in their specific position, that's when the team as a whole can succeed. But what you can't have is individuals wanting to like take someone else's role. The coach can never step on the field and try to play the game. You as the business owner, if you're the strategic standpoint point of view, as the business grows and you have multiple players like this isn't for a small business like Sam, that is still very, very small. But as the business grows and you do have defined roles and responsibilities, it's wrong for the coach to step on the field and try to play the game. If they try to step in and be the quarterback, they're going to get pummeled. Right. They're not going to have the arm strength. And so what Sam's talking about here is him being the coach on the sidelines. Now that being said, when you have a really small, there might be the coach. If you have three or four people, three or four employees, you as the coach are still going to be playing the game. Alright, so this is more like a flag football game where it's three on three. The coach is probably playing the game like the leader is probably playing the game. There's probably a captain, not less of a coach on the sidelines, more of a captain that's playing. And so if you are a small, small business and I'm talking like you have four, five, six employees, you are still going to be out doing stuff in the field. You're going to be still estimates, you're still going to be the one, you're doing a lot of the work with the customers. And we'll feel like Sam says that you're doing a lot of the same things as the employees and that's fine. When you're that small, it's fine. It just you have to be clear. And when you're doing leadership roles, things and you're doing stuff from like coaches perspective versus more of an employee standpoint or like production. And you're out in the field doing the work. And so I don't feel like it's a negative thing. I feel like when you're that small, it's actually really powerful for your team culture. When you as the owner actually doing the work, it actually gets really hard when you're in that 10 to 20 person range of your business where you start not being in the field. And it's a little bit harder for your team culture if it's not built on that team structure of the coach and them realizing that coach has to be out on the sidelines. The coach has to be doing other things outside of raking beds and mowing lawns and trimming trees. Like they need to be doing other things off the field. And so there's that in between part when you're like five to 10 employees, where it can get difficult because you really feel that pool to be out in sales and be out doing other things for strategy for the business, but yet you still are kind of working out in the field with the employees. So that's a really hard place. But when you're really. When you're five employees and below, in my opinion, it's okay. It's embrace the fact that you're able to work out with all your crew, see them every day, go to all the projects. Like there's a lot of autonomy in that because the amount of team culture is built there is really strong. Because they see you working and what you begin to really try to fight off or the thing that you're trying to. You're challenged by down the road as you grow is they don't see you working. They see you driving around and in meetings and just at the office before and after work. They don't necessarily actually getting dirty and doing the physical labor. And for physical labor type positions and employees, they like to see that. They like to see someone that's willing to work hard and do the nitty gritty work that they do every single day. It's really hard and difficult. And so when you're small, embrace that. Just embrace the fact that you're there. Don't always have that kind of pipe dream of what it could be or like, you know, looking so far into the future, just realize that, hey, look, we're small right now. And the positive part of that is that the crew gets to see me actually doing the work and that culture is built and they respect me for the work I do out in the field. And then they support me when I got to do strategy and hiring and marketing and customer service and dealing with the customers and sales. And so I wouldn't push against it. When you're that small, if you were 15 plus people in your organization, I'd be really encouraging to make sure you're just that coach position. And then it's really about selling your team on the idea that if you're not on the sidelines, if you're not doing sales, if you're not focusing on strategy and hiring, that it's going to lead the team to a bad place and that they need to focus on their role and their position. But when you're small, I would not. Don't like. I feel like this is a big issue in our industry is we're always trying to think about how it's better. Like, literally the grass is greener on the other side. And it's kind of funny because we're in the lawn care business, but it's very true. Like for the guys who are 1, 2, 3 employees, like, oh my goodness, if I can only get to a million in revenue, if I can only get five or six crews, then you get the guys that are doing a few million revenue, like, oh, if I could just go back to her simple. I just had a couple crews and a couple really good guys gonna pay them really good and just do landscape projects. So like, I think everyone is really focused on, like, there's always that like something better to get to. When in reality there's just different stages of a life and the life cycle of a business and in the growth of a business and in the lifespan of a business. And so I think you should enjoy each one, enjoy the autonomy that you get when you're, when you're small and the nimbleness and the cultural, really tight culture you can build with 4, 5, 6 employees. And then embrace the fact when you're in that middle ground of 5 to 10 employees where like you need to start getting an office person, you start getting a middle manager and like, things like that. Embrace the fact when you're 15 + and like, you don't have to go out and work in the field, but yet there's a lot more pressure and there's financial pressure and then there's like a lot more dealing with people and hiring and like, there's more stress. Like, so like every single part of the journey is fun, interesting, and should be really embraced. And then you figure out where you need to be in that continuum. Where is it most comfortable for you Maybe you get to a larger scale, larger size business. You're like, you know, I'd rather go back to this spot. I'd rather go back to, you know, eight employees and I can manage still all the jobs. Or maybe you're at 8 and you're like, you know what, you get up to 20 and you're like, you know, I like this because I can go on vacation for a couple weeks and still make money and everything is still working because I have middle management and I can afford it now. So wherever you feel comfortable is where you want to put your business. And I just embrace every single stage. And what we're, you know, I'm struggling with, like in my local business now at Augusta is like, you know, we built it to a certain place and now for the first time, it's like, okay, we're not going to grow like hugely anymore locally because we're focusing on the franchising. So it's different because, like now I'm stepping out of day to day operations. Next year I won't be there as much. I won't hardly be there at all. And so we're in that middle ground where we're trying to figure out what roles I'm doing now, what things do I do now that I can hand off to other people. My office manager, project managers, people that are on the staff and trying to figure that out. That's where we're kind of in that middle between area. Like, if I wasn't franchising, I'd probably say, like, this is probably where I'd be like, okay, this is where the business, you know, I could probably grow another. I'd probably grow it like 3 million. And then that'd probably be where I'd be comfortably, like, okay, that's where I want to start. But, you know, we're. We're not, probably not going to get all the way to 3 million. If we do, it'll be just growth, growing organically, locally, this market. Because next year I'm going to be focusing on the franchises. So, like, it's just where do you want your business to be at? And then just embrace those individual spots and then realize which spot you want to be in long term and then just grow, thrive and enjoy the journey. That's really, in my opinion, what, what it's all about. And so I hope that helps you, Sam, kind of talking those different things in terms of, you know, that rapid growth and then also how to make that distinction between you as a personal individual and then selling the brand and your business to your customers as you grow, so hopefully that helps. For more information, go to landscapebusinesscourse.com I'd love to see you all at the conference we're having in January. Just go to landscapebusinesscourse.com conference or click on the conference tab up on the home screen and I'd love to see you there. Thank you so much. Have a great evening.