How to Conduct Peer Reviews for Your Team and Employees (Interview w/ Operations Manager)

Hey, everyone, it's Mike Andes and you're listening to the Business Bootcamp podcast. Today I'm talking with Liz Naber, the operations manager at our local Augusta Lawn Care, as well as gonna be helping more and more with the franchise. Today we're gonna be talking about pure review, something that we've done for the past few years. Not exactly sure what we're talking about, but she's gonna answer, ask me a few questions and just go over the process that we use to give feedback to each other on the team. Before we get into the show though, a big thank you, today's sponsor, which is Gusto, if you haven't already, go to gusto.combootcamp try out their software completely free for 90 days. You can do direct deposits directly into the bank accounts for your employees. And as we head to the end of the year, being able to quickly get your reports and your W2s is very valuable. In addition to their app where you can quickly see a very transparent view of the paychecks and how they're broken up in terms of taxes and all the rest of it. Go to gusto.combootcamp for more details and try it out there. Alright, so without any further delay, this is Liz. You all have met her before. You've seen her on the channel. If you haven't subscribed to the YouTube channel, make sure you subscribe there. Just this past week, Josh made a couple videos with Liz about customer service and dealing with hard customers that are a pain in the neck. So let's go ahead and jump right into it. We're talking, though, specifically about peer reviews. Something that we do every year with our team at our off site meeting is when we actually get the reviews. But Liz, if you want to kind of explain the process and then jump right into the questions, we'll go from there.

So sure. So I wanted to share this with everyone because as your businesses grow, I found this year I was very, very affected by doing the peer reviews. And so I'll just ask Mike some questions about how we started with this and kind of evolved up to this year and kind of how we handled it this year and how it went. So how did you first get inspired to do peer reviews?

Well, at first I actually wanted to do them when where it wasn't anonymous. I don't know how to say that word.

Okay. So people could just say right out what they.

Yeah, originally was like, hey, look, we're all adults and we can just take it and we should just be able to like, you Know, share constructive criticism without having to apologize for it or hide behind anonymity. Again, can't say that word. Yeah, like that was the original kind of thought process on it. And then as the team grows and there's more and more different characters involved and you want the feedback to be honest, especially for myself, I didn't feel like a lot of people were just going to stand up in front of all their peers and criticize me. Right. Because most places they are, that is looked as very negative thing. Whereas, like, that's what I wanted. I wanted that real feedback, especially for myself. So maybe at the beginning, part of the reason why we did switch to an anonymity was because I wanted that honest feedback from myself. But the reason in terms of why doing it in general, feel different reasons, especially as we grow, people can hide in the organization that are not performing super well. And so getting the feedback from the other guys is a way honestly of almost quality control in terms of seeing who works really hard. And if every single person is writing, this person's such a hard worker and then there's another person that consistently is getting, they're slow or they don't work hard, they're not invested in the team or whatever it might be. Seeing that trend is really useful to, to be able to, from an owner standpoint or manager standpoint, be able to start making decisions in the business who's going to get a promotion or who's going to get further responsibilities in the business. So I guess I really started it because I wanted critical feedback, honestly. And then it was a matter of trying to figure out what was the best way to get that in a clear and honest way from the team.

So what is a peer review?

Yeah. So basically, like for us, I don't know if you're gonna show it.

I will.

But like, we basically want to talk about the things that each person is really what we call amazing at the category and then could improve at. And so in my mind, a peer review is basically getting the feedback from your peers, you know, other workers that you're working with, how what you're really good at and then what you could also improve on. And because you know, the way I am in terms of bit of a perfectionist, I'm obviously looking a lot at what could improve at. But I also know that it needs to be balanced out with what someone's amazing at so that you can deliver that kind of critical feedback without it seeming like a stab in the back. It's more of a, you know, taking the pill with some good medicine.

How many employees did you have or should a team have before they could really do it without being anonymous?

Yeah, in my mind, you kind of have to have more than five. It's like, I've wanted to do this at the gym, but this is the first year we had five or more employees. Like, when I first started. Started there, there was this two. And so even now, though, it's like you could pretty much figure out probably who was saying what. So then. Then it becomes like, I still want to do peer reviews, but there's no point in trying to make it anonymous because there's no more added benefit when people already are gonna be able to figure out who said what.

Exactly.

So the way we've done it, I think probably we probably had about 12 people by the time we had peer reviews.

I would say so.

And somewhere around that feedback and so.

The first time we did it, how did you go about the process of getting them from everyone?

So every year's been a little bit different. Basically, as it's gone on, I want to make sure that first and foremost, they know that I'm not knowing who says what.

And are you involved in this? Are you included as a peer to be reviewed?

Yeah. Yeah. So my name is on there. And then I also submit a review on everyone else as well. Last year, I don't. Not this year, but year before, I don't think I submitted my feedback. And the reason was because I didn't want them to have one really negative thing and to think, like, oh, that came from Mike. I want it to be very clearly that this came from their. The. From the other. Their other workers and not be like, oh, the one thing that's, like, really, really hardcore against me is. Is from Mike. Because sometimes an employee will discount it a little bit, like, oh, well, they're my manager and they're my boss. Like, they're going to be really skeptical or negative. And so last year, I didn't do that part in part, because there was a cultural shift happening, and I wanted some people to kind of get some critical feedback and not feel like it was for me. And so whereas this year, like, I felt like, you know, in everyone we want here, everyone's really awesome. And I feel like I could contribute honestly, not in a great way, because I'm not there very much. And so I wasn't even able this year to give very good feedback, in my opinion, just because I'm not working with them very much. And for some of them that were hired this year, I Literally have not worked a single day in the field with or like hardly at all. So that was a little more difficult for me. But in terms of the beginning, it was very valuable for myself, but hopefully for them as well.

So did you have them write on a piece of paper and put it in a box about each person or how did you do that?

Yeah, I think at the beginning. I think at the beginning we did it exactly the same way we did this year, where we have the sheet, we have every single person's name and then the columns of what they're good at and what they can improve at. And yeah, at first they had to submit it. And then what I would do is I actually gave it to someone, a freelancer to actually compile it all in a document. So even I didn't know who said what.

Okay.

And there was only the one person that had said something I about me, that I did want to know who it was. Then I pulled out the files and figured out who said what so I could clarify a few things with them. And so. But you know, going forward, even this year, like, I have no idea who said what on my sheet. And because I never see the documents. And I think it's really important because the employees, I don't feel will say, be as honest if you're doing the anonymous reviews. I don't feel like they'll be as honest if they know you're gonna be able to know who said what. And so if you're gonna be like looking at every single person and seeing who says what and all that, I really feel like it defeats the purpose of anonymity, which is to be really honest if you don't feel comfortable. Some people, like probably three quarters of the crew would probably be okay with just sharing it open, honestly. But the other 25% are the ones I'm trying to get usually to talk. Cause the other 75% are pretty vocal and they'll say what they think anyways. Whereas the other 25% are not comfortable talking in front of other or sharing negative feedback or constructive feedback. Constructive, critical feedback in a public kind of forum.

What time of the year do you do this? Do you do it at the end of your season or toward the end of your season? So they've actually worked with each other long enough to have some feedback.

Yeah, so we do at the end of the year. So we have two off site meetings. One in the spring, one in the fall. Usually the week before the fall one is when we give out all the sheets at a team Meeting say, hey, take some good time of the week. And the big, the big thing is, especially in this industry for landscaping and lawn care specifically is, you know, they don't, they've, most of them have never done a peer review before. And yes, obviously we need to do it towards the end of the year. So they've actually spent six, eight, ten months working together for some of them years, but especially the new ones that are newly hired, at least several months working with them.

But yeah, we do it at the second off site meeting in the fall. They have to submit it the weekend before and we do really stress like taking the time to put some thought into it. And so I actually this year read my peer review from last year to the team the week before so they'd.

Have an idea of what they're supposed to.

Yeah.

And how they're supposed to format it.

Yeah. And I kind of gave some like, you know, hey, like this, like one person put strictness on my things I can improve on. But it didn't give any clarification like should I be more strict or should I be less strict? So I made it a point for the team, like, look, give some clarity to someone if you're trying to give them some feedback in terms of like, don't just say one word, like give them a few words or like a descriptive word. And so we were really impressed, you know, this year with the amount of people that gave, you know, put some real good time into to putting some thoughts on paper. And it takes some time, it takes a good 45 minutes now the team is so large to put some thought into, put a couple things down actually. Not just like hard worker, hard worker, hard worker, good person, good person, good person. Actually putting some thought into it. And so we stressed that the week before and then they had the weekend to actually do it. Submitted it to you, you put it into a document.

But they submitted it to me. They had a little basket by the door and they just put it in an envelope without any name on it. So their name wasn't anywhere. So it was still anonymous.

Yeah. And then you, you took them and then put a document for each person so they'd have all their feedback like positive and then negative kind of in one document.

So I'll show each of those documents. But when you gave it to them, how did you give it to them last year? And then I'll tell.

Yeah, before this year we did on a smaller piece of paper, just finer print. Honestly, there wasn't as much feedback last year as this year. Because I think we did really stress and because I did read mine and so made them feel a little bit like at least have some ideas of what to say, right? Because if someone's never done a peer review, they're like, I don't know what to say. Like, you know, like, oh, they're a good person. Like, that was the kind of things we used to get. Whereas this year, I feel like, because I read my peer review and made it very clear that, like, everyone here loves each other and we want each other to succeed and do well, and giving someone good feedback is what we want, even if it's negative. And so me, you know, just trying to be a little bit vulnerable and sharing the things that people said negatively about me probably gave them a little more confidence. Be like, oh, okay, so I can mention so and so is the way they look or like the way they present themselves and give them that confidence to say those things, which are sometimes hard. But I think it gave better feedback this year because of that.

So the value of this is that each person can objectively take it home and read all the good things and be surprised by all the good things people say, and then the. We're not going to say negative, but the things they could improve on are things that typically, most of us know already that we need to change about ourselves. Sometimes it's from left field, but a couple years ago, when you had gotten yours, it was after that that we had made the decision to divide up all your roles all the way out. And it was because of the feedback that time, and I believe it was also that time that we made decisions, like for you to have a car instead of a truck just because of their feedback of saving money and things like that. And. And so it was invaluable, really. And we take it really serious. And we made changes from the reviews they made for you and the criticisms they had for me. I really tried hard to make changes for them as well. So the nice part was that it is anonymous, and you don't know who's saying it. Sometimes you can guess. And some of them are kind of joking. You know, like our guy that cleans the trucks, one of the guys put he needs to improve on putting candy in our trucks and things like that. And so it's kind of. Kind of fun that way. But I want to show the format that Mike had thought of. So I have the name of all the employees here.

Well, that's my peer review. That's the one I wrote.

This is Mike's writing, actually.

Don't zoom in too much.

At the top. At the top, it says amazing at. And then over here, it says could improve at. And it has every team member's name. And so you put what you think they're amazing at, and you put it kind of in bullets. So this top person Mike had put, what they're amazing at is hardscaping jobs, steady and calm even when jobs go poorly. Very hard worker and sets the pace. And then let me just make sure that could improve at. This is a very, very good one. So could improve at sharing his experience and wisdom during team meetings, since he has the most experience. So do you see how that is. Is still positive? And it's not like, get a haircut or you smell bad or anything like that. It is something that gives that person courage to know they're very valued. And when we would like them to share more of their experience, because we do value them as part of the team. And you see how extensive Mike did this. He thought of, like, three bullets of nice things for this person, and then things they can improve on. And you see how much time this takes. It is not easy to do. And so we handed these to everyone and then told them they could put them back in anonymously. And it was funny. They would come to me and they'd be like, this is so, so hard, because when you work with somebody, you're always looking for the positive, always looking for the good. And Ben had come in, and he's like, I do not know how to, like, specifically think about the bad, about people. And I said, no, not that. Like, don't. Even if there's nothing, there's nothing. But when you think of somebody else, think, okay, is there something they consistently do that really, really bugs me or that they're constantly getting yellow slips for? And you just put it. You could improve at slowing down a little bit, having a little more attention to detail, not driving the truck too fast in the parking lot, things like that, you know? So then after I got them back, I just took each person's name and so I put, like, Aaron, I put all his amazing at. And then could improve at. And they are just bullets. So. And I mix them all up. So there's no way you could figure out, like, if I put something you said here and here, you would never be able to figure out that one person said these three things about you.

Or that, like, the first thing here was the first thing, like, same person.

Yes, exactly. So I mix that up so that. So that even by the end, if I Thought there was somebody that I even recognized that I wouldn't know even myself, typing the thing up, just detached from it to be objective. So even like Austin here, he's a fantastic worker. You've all seen him on video, so it's just bullets. Tenacious, very kind, understanding and thorough with his work. A reliable performer, always up to try something new. Being a leader, having a great work ethic, taking care of equipment, always having a smile on ultimate team player work ethic is amazing. So when you have 15 people, list all the good about you and let's say you have a lot of complexes about yourself and somebody you keep saying, is that a typo that's in there three times? No, you're caring. Next person says you're caring. Next person says you're caring. For instance, more it says about Austin, passion for Augusta, doing his jobs to a high level of quality. Hard worker, dedicated to getting the job done correctly. Awesome team player. And I actually made them pretty big. When people got them back, I gave like Erin a whole printout. This time I gave them all a printout. And I've got pages because people were so kind. And I have one employee that's gone through quite a bit lately and some more like really hard workers, but they're kind of shy and they just, you know, do their work, work really hard, do a great job and, you know, bye, everybody. And they head home. And a couple of them had had some bad days and I said, you know what, I think you're going to be really, really surprised when you see all the good that the team said about you. And they're like, oh, no, now I'm a little bit nervous. And I said, actually think you're going to be blown away. And so afterwards at our off site team meeting, I gave them all their envelope and then prefaced it by, you know, you work with people that you work with more than your family, you're with them more. Like if you think of the hours you're with somebody, you see each other in the best of times and the worst of times. And if these people could care enough to sit down and write things about you that are so good and you see this huge thing of the good things you've done, then it's much easier once they've expressed how much they care about you, to take the more maybe negative things or. So when I got together with them, after I would ask them, which one was the dagger to your heart? Because we all know the things that we need to work on, but sometimes there's Something from left field that you have no idea could be bugging everyone. So one of the guys had told me when he walked in the next day after our team meeting that night, he said he had went home. He didn't read it until he got there, and he sat down and he read it with his sister. And he had gone through some rough things and was having a hard time getting to work and getting to work on time. And you know, when he had had rough times, I was like, just come and have a bad day with us. We just want you here. And he told me that when he read all the good things that people had said about him that he just cried like he couldn't believe that people valued him that much. And his sister looked at him and said, she said, then you've got to be there for them. And like, he's just been so happy and thrilled to be there since, to realize that people love him that much and love, like your family would probably. They just put up with you. And even your family probably would never be that candid, even though you know they love you to say those kind of things that you need to prove on. And a lot of people wouldn't be able to take it either, but because it's anonymous, it's like, okay, somebody feels that way about me. I need to do a little better. And your response on that is pretty important right now. We have a really good team culture and we worked really hard this year to get to that. So everything this time there was nothing like if you had one person on the team that spread poison and they were saying all kinds of negative things on every single person's. We had nothing like that this year, for which I'm really grateful. It's very difficult to get a good across the board vibe with everyone. And it's a lot of work to keep that. And the way we have kept it is to act fast when there's stuff. So after that was over, I put a sign up sheet for them like three times early in the morning before work, and then like another two, like in the afternoon when you get back. Just text me on your way back. And they could just sign up when they wanted to see me. So this past week was that. And I told Mike I would just love to share with our listeners after I have those meetings with them. So in the past, Mike would get together with them after each of those meetings to kind of see where they were, how they were feeling after those reviews, their goals, and kind of projecting into the winter months what they would plan to do for work. So I did a little list of questions and then as I got together with each of them, I asked them the same questions. And if you don't ask your employees these questions, you will never ever know this kind of feedback. And it was so incredibly valuable writing these things to know people said this about each other. It actually gave me the chills. But after these meetings, it gave me a really good idea of a plan of action that we needed to have for our particular employees. So like I would. I had six questions and what were your thoughts after reading your review? Were you already aware of the needs to improve at or were you surprised? What are your personal goals? What are your Augusta goals? And then what can we do better for you while you work here? When you look over the company, what do you see that we need to improve? And then the last one, do you have plans for your winter work? And from this it was incredible. So their personal goals they were able to share. I'm still wanting to do this. I want to buy a house, I still want to get my degree in this or I don't really know. I'm just taking it day by day. And then what are your Augusta goals as you work here? Do you want to have a franchise someday? Do you just like being a field worker? Do you want to move up into a role of an estimator or lease position or, you know, what can we do for you to be better to help you move into your goals? And also while you work here, as you look around, what do you think we need to improve? And they were really candid and there wasn't very many. And the reason they said was because as soon as they ever voice anything, it's addressed right away. And then the ones that had certain things that were, they were very good, very good suggestions and feedback and we will definitely implement them. And then we ask about the winter work because some people, it's the perfect time for them to go away on vacation, have more time with their family, take some classes, personal time. And so we want them to be able to have that opportunity. And yet we want to give them as many hours as we can, knowing we can't, you know, give them 40 probably in the winter, which we're working towards a solution for that. So is there anything you want to add about that?

And yeah, I think a big part of the follow up meeting that was important. So like I've done it in the past, the first year where you'd done it because honestly, like, I don't know half of them as much as you do because you see them every day. I see them a couple times a week for team meetings. So it was really good that you did it. But also I think a lot of people wouldn't have that meeting because they feel like they, if by knowing an employee's family life or their goals or whatever, you're kind of becoming into that friend zone of like, you can't. Well, if you know them too much and you are too, like emotionally attached to them, you can't fire them. And literally, you know, this, the week after this, we fired one of someone who's very, very good with the culture.

The day or two after their peer review, which was amazing.

Yeah. And I think so. I think a lot of times the reason, you know, owners won't get to know their, their employees so well is they feel like they're going to get to that point where they, like, I need to, you know, run this like an operation of a team and like, I can't get to know their family or their goals and things like that. But I think it's really important if you're going to create a culture of caring and you do care, that you really need to be open and honest. And for us, like, we're very open with them in terms of, you know, why we're still having the local shop and the whole, you know, goal of Augusta at all the locations is to take someone that's brand new into the industry and in three, four years have them to either own a location, be a manager estimator and really progress their own career goals, or go work somewhere else in something they're passionate and have the skill set that we give them. And I think the overarching theme from the peer reviews is once they are vulnerable and share what they've seen, their feedback, you're able to dive deeper into those things that you want them to do better at. And if five people have said it on their peer reviews, it makes it really easy for you as a manager. Instead of being like, hey, I need to bring up the fact that you don't wear your uniform or you need to do whatever, you work slow, whatever, show up late instead of you having to bring that up. If five people have brought it up in their peer review and then you have this follow up meeting, it's really easy. And then the next thing is, is. I don't, I don't remember what I was going to say. But yeah, yeah. The follow up meetings, I feel are just as important as the peer reviews for the manager to Solidify those comments and actually see some improvement and create a connection with that person. So, yeah, yeah.

So where I went from this was I listen.

That's what I was going to say.

I thought so.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

What we implement after.

Well, I was going to say, like the overarching theme from a lot of their. What you said to them was about taking the things that we have for the culture of the team and for them and really taking advantage of it. Like the Audible programs, the Wednesday morning meetings, being more engaged in like even listening to podcasts if they wanted to become a franchisee, learning about business more. And I think that was for almost all of them. The takeaway that you were giving them, you know, a piece of that was that element. So sorry.

Yeah, so everybody who said, like for instance, they said they wanted to own a franchise, but then they would tell me their reservations and this is the part that was huge for me. And I saw this in three of them. That was crazy. I told Mike. So I would talk to them and they'd say, I want to own a franchise, but I have no idea about business or numbers or money or anything. And so, you know, what do I do? And so I told them, you already have the skills. You're an incredible worker. You got this feedback from everybody that you already have all of that down pat. So what I would do is over the next couple years, I would take the Audible account, which is almost 190 books. And I said, I know it's difficult if you're not used to listening to anything but music or sports or whatever, and to actually to build the discipline for the skills. So some of them said, I need to go to college, I need to take evening classes and I need to learn public speaking because I, I stutter and I murmur, I just like repeat my words. And that was some of the things people had said, is I needed to work on my talking. And so I told them, think about it though, if you work here all day and then you go to school and then you have homework and then you have an exam, it's going to be too much for you. But what if you took a 27 hour speaking course that's in our Audible, which I got laughed at when I bought that one. But I said, let's say you listen to that three times and you're working all day and you don't get a whole lot out of it, but once you get maybe five things out of it, you've learned more than you would have if you'd gone to school and done all that work. So to discipline yourself, let's say you work eight hours, maybe two of those hours, you know, you're going to have this, and you're going to listen to this, and you're going to subscribe to a couple podcasts and you're going to put the bell on so that the notification comes in, and you're going to listen to it each time it comes in. And over the next couple years, you come to all the Wednesday morning meetings, you listen to the podcast, then you're going to be right with the company as it progresses. And I told him, when you hear Mike speaking, and he goes, oh, and the ROI on that. And I said, then the whole next two things he's saying, you've lost, because you're like, what in the world is an roi? But if you listen to the business books, even if they're a little bit in the weeds and over your head, if you're just listening to them in the background and they start to become a fiber of the way, you think. So when Mike says roi, that you know that it means return on investment. And one thing Austin said to me, that was really good. He listens to everyone that comes in. And he said. When we were at the meeting the other night, and Mike was just talking away and he said the HQ site and about this, and inside he said, I was like, yes, because I know everything he's talking about, because I already saw the podcast and I already heard him talk about it. And I said, when that happens, you'll just be right with him all the time. And, you know, get on Facebook and other places that have lawn, you know, landscaping, any kind of that. And then you kind of get the feel of everyone in your industry and what they're learning, the questions they have and all that type thing, so that when people come here, you can support them and then all across the board, you can build your skills as a business owner. And the audible is really good. The podcasts and then some of them to start a franchise, I said, start, you know, saving your money, because you would need to have that for marketing to start out. And so some of them have a disciplined amount they put aside. And so I have no words to say how important these peer reviews are. If your company is small, maybe five, six people think of a little bit of a creative way to get some feedback, at least have a meeting with them at the end of each year. I am not. I'm not emotional, but they know I care. So depending on how each of them had their goals. Like, one of them is very experienced, but he is more quiet. Put your head down and work. And some people might think, oh, that's rude. But in this meeting, I was able to say, do you realize how highly valued you are here? And anytime you speak up, people are going to listen because they respect you and they want your feedback. And, you know, people don't have a good dad, they're going to look to a solid guy in the company. And I know that they value you that way. And so it just encourages them to try to get a little bit out of their comfort zone, to speak up at team meetings and to know that people do want to hear what they say. I have one employee that's extremely positive, always has a good word to say, and we have worked in rough situations. And he said, I've never been at a company who cared so much about me and actually appreciated that I'm positive and bring that to work. And he said, I've worked at other places where they actually thought I was a fraud because I was so positive. And I told him, do you know how I know that that's genuine? I said, is because we've done the roughest jobs. I've seen you mad, I've seen you frustrated, but how you come back and approach to figure it out is still good. And so I know you're still trying to find the good in everything. And a person like that, they lead from wherever they are. And that's what I encouraged all of our solid team players to know that, let's say you wanted to start a franchise in a couple years. I said, pretend next season that you're the owner. And every single person you train, train like their success depends on you and the money that's going to come into the company. Train them knowing that, like, if you. If you see them something and they're messing up. I said, I depend on you to lead from where you are and resolve it. Like, don't come to me and say, oh, they're not doing this. And they've been told three times, ask them, what have we not taught you? Or is there any machine you're not comfortable using? Or, oh, I see you're edging like that. You know, put your arm up a little bit. Or, you know, some other now body mechanics. And instead of, I just don't think they got the hang of this trimming, you know, well, ask them. And so they all took that really well. Like that next year that that's what they're going to do. And as they do that, and that's kind of what I told some of them, what Mike is looking for is the people that are doing work on themselves, trying to improve themselves. And they are obvious that they're stepping into a leadership role by the way they behave and handle their jobs and, and, and all of that. So if you have any questions, let us know. But I thought it would really help some of you to have that kind of feedback. It is. The first years we did it, it was really, really hard. It was hard to hear people say things to you. So for instance, like I would, I would work 100 hours a week and trying so hard to give them good routes. And some of them would say, Liz needs to learn the routes a little bit better, go out on a route because sometimes she doesn't optimize it. Right. And I know that, wow, I do pretty good for never having been to any of these properties.

And then listen to the crew a little better before you respond. Hear them out where they're coming from. And as hard as that is to hear it was necessary, was what I needed to hear. And some of the guys said some of the things that were said last year were still on my list this year. And then others commented that they couldn't believe how much others had improved and what they had written on last year that they had changed so much that they had hardly anything to put on them for this year. So the kind of things Mike got for improvements is that he, he needed to go on a vacation.

I don't remember some of the other ones, but they just had a lot of really great things to say about Mike and, and all the criticisms we really take seriously and try to implement change.

So, so after the, after the off site meeting we had all the managers, so Marcus, Lee, yourself and me, we obviously went, we read all of ours together, like the positives and the negatives because obviously as the managers, we kind of want to know. And that for me, because I actually work with you guys, that was the people. I probably could have wrote like three more, three times as much.

Right.

Like, if I would have worked with everyone else more, I probably could have wrote better. I felt like I didn't write the best reviews. But anyways, I think the big takeaway from, for us as owners is if you're going to do the peer reviews, you need to get very clear to the, to the team that it's important to you to improve and change yourself. Because if you get a peer review and you're really defensive about it, or you're like, oh no, like that's not right. Or you discipline people because they say things about you. You're just basically setting them up for not being honest and not giving you good feedback. And it just makes it unsafe environment for giving critical feedback and trying to improve each other. And I think the biggest thing is from a cultural standpoint, our big kind of cornerstone is constantly changing and improving yourself. And so when they an owner that is constantly trying to be better, listen to books, listens to audio and like is open to, you know, these, the critical feedback and actually then makes changes, it's very important. Like if you have certain things on a peer review that's negative and then they see you, even if you don't share it with people or talk about it, you're going and making changes. They're going to say, okay, like this is legit. This person is actually wanting to improve themselves. I think it starts from the top. You have to be willing to change yourself and not be proud. And we're gonna talk a little bit at this conference in my opening keynote about why humility is so important when it comes to improving yourself and how that's a trickle down into your culture. And if you're gonna expect people to treat your customers like an owner or become better and listen to audio books and become more skilled at what they do, you have to from the top, be willing to change, adapt new strategies, figure out that you're wrong sometimes and constantly be improving yourself. And so I think peer reviews is definitely a great place to start and very valuable for not only your team, but you as a leader as well. So also Liz did make this for our team after the peer reviews, which is cause like she said, we have 190 audio books in our Audible program that our team kind of shares. We listen to it throughout the day, et cetera. And what a couple of them had asked us for is some more clear direction on where to start. And so she posted this on the Facebook group Landscape business course.

This has five, but we decided that was still a little too overwhelming.

Two or three.

We put three in each category. Do you want to say some of the categories?

Yeah. So we like, if someone's just starting out, then we have like one about leadership, public speaking, money and personal finance. One that's more story oriented for people who do not like textbook style books and then customer service. And so really the goal here was because some of them were like, hey, there's 190 books, where do I get started? And so what they can do is look at this and kind of see which ones they might want to start with. And honestly, we feel like if they read 1, 2, or 3 even, and that does speak to them, they'll dig into the rest of the 190 and figure out which ones they want to read, start one may move on to another one. And so that's really the goal. And several of them had asked for that. So Liz was able to make that this week.

And I was saying to them, when I was saying that I watched them transform, it was like I was. It felt like I was breathing hope in them and telling them the exact strategies of what they needed to do, that they could own a business, and that I told them that the systems are all set up for them with the franchise and they don't have to worry about learning that part. But a lot of people don't want to listen to books and stuff like that. It's just not their style. And so, like, one of our employees is more of an academic, and he said, I just. I can't do that. Like, I can't just listen to stuff. I'm a hold a book in. In my hand person. And I said, okay, the category you want, you give me five books and I will buy them for you, and then you can read them. And so I was saying that I just saw them light up and become excited and gave them specific things they could work on in the next couple years to learn and be better if they wanted to be an estimator. I told them, I talked about their presentation and their body language and the ones that had difficulty speaking to speak into their phone, like something they would do to train in clear sentences and critique that themselves and start to take out filler words and things like that. So they would learn to speak to others better and clearly, and that once they master that, they'll be able to sell because they already have the background of the actual work. So the ones that don't really want to do this, that's why I said to maybe discipline themselves, to just listen to a couple hours a day, one hour a day, two hours a day, when they're the most fresh or when they're doing a really boring job, you don't have to get it all. You just have to have it going so it becomes a part of you. And once you have. It's like Marcus and I were talking yesterday. Marcus is like, if you could really convince people that it's the one book that really clicks with them that completely changes their mindset about business and customer service and leadership and the whole thing to where they see something in themselves, they've got to change, and then you will see them get ignited. And like Charlie told me, he said, I can tell the employees here that listen to stuff because I watch them change in everything they do. And it's because they get into the game of business and they get excited and the possibilities of what can be, and then it's more than money. It's coming to work to build something big together, which is what we're trying to do. And we're here to support all of you and to help you. Like, we just try this stuff so that, you know, we try and fail and get better so that you can implement it yourself and don't have to make the same mistakes that we have in the past, and we'll all continue to grow together and support one another.

Peer reviews. So I kind of feel like peer reviews are probably a little bit more of an advanced thing in terms of building a culture. I feel like there's other things that are more fundamental that need to be implemented even before you do.