MK9Pod Ep 1 - Perfect Breeds. Recall Problems. Would You Rather?

We are going to be saying yes or no to these breeds on whether they are right or the wrong dog for first-time dog owners.

But people kind of go, oh, you're saying a dog's untrainable, like, and this is why people then go, well, force-free training doesn't work. And it's like, no, what, what, how, what quality of life is this dog living?

Yeah, the reason why small dogs tend to be quite reactive is not because they think they're big, which is what people call it, like small dog syndrome. Uh, it's just because they're—

This was my first dog actually, so I'm being a hypocrite.

Whoa. However, but it didn't start amazingly.

Yesterday morning I was like, I'm gonna start my day with a nice relaxing cup of coffee in my Airbnb big massive garden. And do my makeup outside in the sunshine. And then he had a bad stomach. He's just like pooping out pure grass, which I then had to help get out of him. Then I cleaned him up, had to shower him, and then I was like, hmm, does it still smell in here or am I imagining it? And I stroke this one, pull my hand away, it's all over my hand.

You're now part dog.

He rolled in it. Yeah.

So yeah, I honestly, I would get a shepherd. I really would. But if there's just something about hair that makes me like really— like, I'm not a tidy person.

Yeah.

But there's something about hair around my house that like makes my skin tingle. I really don't know what it is. Like, I like— my sister's got a black lab.

Yeah.

And when she comes over, it's everywhere.

Oh really?

And yeah, maybe it's because I'm not used to it. Like, my dogs like never molt and they have hardly—

Really?

Well, Enzo has no hair on his chest, belly, and pits. And even up his sides, it's like thin as hell. So it's only really on his back. Aww. Tiny hairs. So yeah, they hardly molt and they're so easy to clean.

As someone who has a German Shepherd and loves my German Shepherd, I would spend a good portion of time convincing everyone to not get one.

Yeah, I'd do the same with a Fairhound, to be honest. Yeah, I, I think, yeah, well, I mean, everyone— oh, okay, I say everyone— most people know certain dogs are certain lifestyles and certain people with certain expectations. And I think there are a lot of dogs out there that people probably want, but they're not going to meet their expectations. And from where I'm sat with a sighthound is one of those things where when people expect walks to look like this, but with a sighthound, then always going to look a certain way. Um, yeah, uh, but yeah, I think with Shepherds especially, um, a little bit more highly strung than people typically imagine.

I think people, they often come up as like on the easy to train because they're quite— they can be high drive.

Um, and they're smart dogs.

They're smart dogs, but that smartness isn't always directed towards training. Like, a lot of the time they're trying to outsmart you. Yeah, so here's like this one, it's like Oh, what do you want me to do? There's food, okay, what do you want me to do? He's like, how do I get that reward by doing everything other than what you want me to do? It's like he's constantly working out how to not work with you, if you know what I mean. And that's not all shepherds, because some of them are a lot more like biddable. But it's not as— I think also people are like, oh, they're independent, so they're going to do their own thing. Like, no, they want to do their thing with you following them. So it's like he can be quite— Like, I don't like to say bossy, but he can be because it's like, I want to go this way.

Yeah.

And if you're not following me, I'm gonna turn around and yap at you until you follow me. And it's like, if I'm going the other way and he doesn't want that, it's like there is nothing I could do.

Yeah.

Like, he just is— he's on his own.

Yeah. Well, they're bred to be very, like, hard-headed dogs.

Yeah.

One thing and do it, like, with all your might.

Yeah. And I think that's what threw me off when I got him because I was like, Yeah, I want a dog that's a challenge. I want a breed that can do loads of training. And then I had a dog that sort of didn't want to do— it's like, yeah, the challenge bit's accurate.

It was like, it's like the video that we made yesterday when we were getting information that AI was telling us what breeds are like.

Yeah.

And one thing that we kept on saying was like, even though some of them were quite accurate, it's still not guaranteed that's what the dog's going to turn out like.

Yeah.

My little sausage dog Purdy, for anybody that hasn't seen her, believe it or not, she is over 12 years old. She is just skin, bone, and muscle. There's no fat, there's no wobble. She doesn't dawdle. She is 12 and a bit years old, and she is out for 4 hours a day. And that 4 hours a day is not trotting behind me, it's following smells, digging holes, being— she's like a little monster terrier. Oh, and it's like If that sausage dog went to someone that was expecting a little dawdly along fat little sausage, which Purdy's mum was, related dog, you'd get a big surprise. So like, always remember that, like, I don't, I, I don't like doing this with life because I think it's pessimistic, but with dogs, always expect the worst. Yeah, because then you'll be prepared for everything. Because for sure, yeah, I mean, I don't think Purdy's worst case scenario Uh, I think she's, for me, best case. And I wanted a dog like that. I'm glad she turned out to be a little monster. But I think for some people that would just manifest into just this frustrated, crazy dog, which, before I was a trainer, she was the most reactive.

Really?

She was riddled with anxiety. Like, even now, because she spent like the first about 4 years of her life anxious, even now she is still a bit anxious, and that will never go. But She's no longer got separation issues. She doesn't bark at every noise she hears.

That's good.

And people and dogs out on walks, she's fine with. The only time she barks out on a walk is if that dog's walking a little bit too fast. She'll do a little woof woof and then sniff that bum. It's just like this little safety net thing.

Yeah.

And even if there's a group of dogs, she could not even look at them. She just lets out a woof whilst looking around, 'cause she can just feel that there are these big dogs here. So, it's just a little, like, "I'm down here" kind of thing. But it used to be like— dog over there, and she'd bomb at them barking.

Really?

It was dreadful taking her out.

Yeah, that reminds me of a little sausage dog I trained, Indy. She's still one of my favourite clients.

Really?

Yeah, she was like terrified of everything. Yeah. Um, and they'd like bark at everything, and then she got to a really good point where she was sort of like— the bark completely changed because sometimes they like to be a bit noisy, Dachshunds, don't they? So she would like go like bark at something, but it wasn't like a terrified, yeah, I'm scared. It was just a sort of, hey, I'm here, and then, yeah, yeah, like going back to doing her own thing.

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, she She, like, I train her to bark for everything because I know she loves it.

Yeah.

So, like, even when it comes to mealtime or enrichment time, I always ask Enzo to maybe just, like, if I'm feeding him from a bowl, then Enzo taps his little chair. Purdy barks for it.

Aww.

If Purdy needs a wee, she barks for it. If she wants attention, she barks for it. But just because you're encouraging a dog to bark for things doesn't mean that they're going to bark bark all the time.

Yeah, for sure.

Because if, if Purdy is always in need of attention, then she'd always bark at me for attention. Yeah, they, they love, they love to bark. So yeah, I always let her know that it's completely fine.

I'm always such a big, like, advocate for, like, listen to your dog as well. Like, people are always like, oh, my dog's asking for attention. I'm like, okay, give them attention. Yeah, yeah.

Like, it's, it's only a problem if the dog is always asking attention. The dog's clearly frustrated then. They're just, like, restless or hyperactive, and, and that's the problem. So the problem yet again isn't that they're barking for attention, it's that they are needing attention all the time, constantly. Yeah.

But sometimes I find people, like, I think because they get in their head that it's wrong, it's like, my dog shouldn't be asking for attention.

Yeah.

Like, they should be waiting for me to initiate things.

And it's like, yeah, yeah, it's, it's— I always say to people, like, you— there are a lot of behaviours that you can just sit there and decide it's not a bad thing, and all of a sudden you have a well-behaved dog.

Yeah. Oh, for sure.

Because it's like, if this is your image of a dog and the dog doesn't fit it —then— That just bounced off your chin. Um, if, uh, yeah, if the dog doesn't fit that image of what you've been told is a good dog, then of course from your perspective you've got a bad dog. But yeah, I mean, unless the dog is harming themselves or others or being a nuisance, then everything else is actually just optional. You can decide it's fine. So yeah, there's a lot of stuff with Purdy I accepted, 'cause I didn't want a barky dog before I was a trainer, and then I realized That's just how she communicates. Yeah, for sure. Enzo, on the other hand, he communicates more with really sassy eyes. Uh, he's, he's very like, he's, he's a very mellow but not mellow dog. He's really interesting. Like, he's loud without barking. Like, he, he'll really communicate to you with like posturing. He'll be like, right, I want Weeby's dad. Little paws. Kind of like he'll go to the door and he'll just like look at you like this. I was like, "You wanna go out for a wee?" And he'll let out like a little whine. I'm like, "Yeah, sure." Purdy is just, "Woof, woof." And I'm like, "Wee?" He growls for everything, you know? It's so funny. I've noticed even when he does his little excited barks, there's always like little grumbles in between.

Yeah, like he'll, when he wants his dinner and stuff, he comes up to me and he goes, "Grrr." Yeah. But it's so funny 'cause it's like, it's why you always look at the context, right? So if I said to someone, "My dog's growling all the time." Yeah. They'd be like, oh no, yeah, that's so aggressive. But it's just his way of being like, I need something, please.

No, 100%.

And does it when he wants to go for a wee as well. He stands at the back door and like just goes, so I find that adorable.

It's so cute. It's so cute. The thing I find real beautiful about Enzo now is that a lot of the stuff he does, he has actually just learned from me, because when I rescued him He'd never had an owner before. He was like a street dog, and then he was in a rescue center for a year. So when he came to us, he hated affection. Oh, really? He hated resting near people. Like, for the first week, he never slept in the same room as a person. He'd go and sleep in the hallway. Um, and the way now that he asks for love— He did it once, and it scared the shit out of me, but he, um, he like snarls and snaps literally like an inch from your face. Yeah. And that sounds terrifying, But it's never ended in tears. It's literally like he'll come up and he'll be looking at me like this and he'll go, "Grrr." You know, like that. He like snaps the air and I'm like, "Do you want love?" And he's like, "Yes." Like, he's so snarly.

That's what my partner's— My partner has a Malinois mix.

I did not know this.

Yes, but a Romanian rescue. Okay. So he's like a Malinois mixed with like, random— Like, there's all sorts of random stuff in there. Like, including Chihuahua. Oh, so he's not very big. No, he's like, he's about Indy size. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, but he has a lot of like Mali traits, which is funny. So he'll like contact, like if he likes you, he comes and like barges like into a contact heel. It's so funny. Um, but yeah, if he wants attention, he comes and like does like mouth clack. Yes, for attention. It's so cute.

That's what Enzo does. Yeah, I, I remember like when my family first was introduced to Enzo and he started doing all this stuff um, it was lots of like panicking and everything. I'm like, no, that's literally just him communicating. And now like 5 and a bit years in, it's just like, it's all normal. Yeah, like Enzo's snarling, oh, we give him love. Yeah, like it's just how he's learned to communicate. Like a dog can learn to communicate in any way. Yeah, if, if that has worked in the past, they'll do it. It's how like jumping up starts. Yeah, for sure. Jumping up, most of the time it's just how it just has reinforcement history. Especially when it comes to like puppies. Yeah, everyone reinforces it and then the dog gets 10 times the size and it's like, oh, this is a problem. It's like, yeah, you spent 6 months reinforcing. I know. Yeah. So like communication, a time where they're like a sponge and learning what, what works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like communication could be anything and it's like barking, growling, snarling can be all completely fine and positive. And getting that across to people sometimes like really like chills them out. Yeah. They're like, oh, it's— that's not a problem, that's not a problem, that's not a problem. Yeah.

It's like when I do my reactivity work workshops, we talk about like, I think we talk— well, I like to talk to people about like not fussing on the label because I think people are like, well, does this mean my dog is aggressive or does this mean my dog is reactive? And I was like, doesn't mean anything. It means you're seeing the behaviour that you're seeing, whatever that behaviour is, whether that's like growling. If your dog is growling, if your dog is biting, your dog is biting. It's like, and it goes, it swings both ways as well because it's like with, um, with aggression, people will be like, well, I don't think it's aggressive. And I'm like the, the, the fact is your dog is biting and always trying to bite. Yes. Like, it doesn't matter what the, like, semantics of that are. It's like you look at the behavior, not the, like, label of what you think it may or may not be.

I actually went really into depth with this in the resource guarding series on the website because most resource guarding cases at home are actually just like, it's just aggression in the house. Yeah, it's just like, it sometimes it's it's not really a resource. It's just the dog in this situation is uncomfortable, and they're using aggression. So I always say to people, I was like, "Don't label it as resource guarding," because that kind of limits people. It's just like— every dog, by the way, is aggressive. Everyone has a point. It's just dogs that are labeled aggressive dogs, their threshold is just a little bit smaller. So it's like, these two have a point where they'll bite me, there's stuff I can do that will make them bite me. It's just some dogs, just the sight of me means they want to start using aggression. So it's never just like they're aggressive, it's just their threshold's really small and it's our job to figure out why. And it's normally fear, anxiety, frustration. But what's causing those things can then make it a bit more complex. Maybe it's like it's pain, it's, uh, you know, like experiences. That's where it gets a bit more complex. So yeah, it's never look at the behaviour. Aggressive dog, let's teach them how to behave. It's just, you've got a dog that's uncomfortable, let's help them.

Yeah. And it's like, I always say with resource guarding as well, because, well, it's not resource guarding, but I've had clients where their dog is being aggressive and they're like, oh, I think he's resource guarding himself. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, that's not a resource. Yes, he doesn't want you near it.

It's just aggression.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Um, I fear my golden retriever is winding up my German Shepherd who wants to sleep. Indy, come here.

Come on, you're more than welcome to play after the podcast, guys. So I want you to guess what breed of dog I am. Okay, I'm going to give you some traits. Okay, okay. So I'm going to give you one actually, cuz I think this is spark a good conversation. I love stealing socks. Cocker Spaniel. Yeah, yeah, no, it's a good one, 100%. Um, okay, I I'm out on a walk and I'm dawdling along. I love sniffing the floor quite a lot. And there is the odd moment where I will sometimes get a really good smell and my ears turn off.

Beagle.

Yes, I'm a beagle. Why does that normally happen with a beagle?

Well, because they're scent dogs. They like the smell. That's what they're bred to do.

Is this— so if I got a Whippet, Am I likely to see that behavioural problem on a walk? No, no. But what could I see? Chasing prey. Yeah, yeah. So a big difference. So when it comes to dogs like hounds, I think it's a really interesting topic because for me, everyone's got their idea of like what a proper dog is. For me, I find hounds are proper dogs. Yeah, because it's like, it's as dog as dogs come. But when it comes to getting hounds, which is dogs bred to hunt either with sight or smell, walks is where you see a lot of the behavioral issues.

Yeah, yeah, for real.

And my number one tip, especially from someone that has a sighthound, is whatever they're getting from the walk, give them that at home, and you'll find when you go out on a walk, they won't be so desperate for it. Because sometimes people go out on the walk, have these issues, and they'd like— they work loads on recall, but recall's just the management of the behaviour. They do it and then you call them. But if you've got these dogs that just love going off smells or chasing stuff, constantly calling them from it makes them hate recall. So what you've got to get rid of is just the desperation to do it, and then they won't disappear for 10 minutes. Because people hate hearing this, The dog's never gonna stop. Yeah, like my dog Enzo is never gonna stop chasing stuff, and your beagle is never gonna stop following smells. There's nothing you can do. But what you can get rid of is just the pure desperation.

Well, and also, like, if you give them that outlet from you, you are now the source of that fun rather than being the, like, the preventative. Because, like, so often it's like you go out and you're the thing stopping your dog from having fun. Yeah, but it's like if you have a scent hound and you go out and do scent work, yeah, That's all of a sudden, you are the fun thing. Like, you are the source of that entertainment.

Yeah. So— It's exactly the same as if you gave that dog an activity to do at home and then you just called them away from it and put them in the kitchen. That's exactly what's happening on a walk. You're putting them in an enriching environment. As soon as they find something to do, you're calling them away from it and putting them in the kitchen, which is where you are. So never just be like the barrier in a dog's life. Always be where the outlet comes from. But also, it's fine for your dog to follow smells and chase stuff on walks. Just not disappearing for 10, 15 minutes.

Yeah, or like I've seen it where, you know, it's like someone's beagle is running around stealing people's picnics and stuff. Yeah, there's also—

This is the one thing that makes hounds a little bit more difficult, is environments are a little bit more important. Like, if you've got a beagle and you do live in the middle of London, you only have access to parks, it's gonna be trickier because there's landmines everywhere called picnics and families and roads in the way of other smells, 'cause there's bins and stuff. So, it becomes a little bit more difficult. Uh, but there's also nothing wrong with having that dog on a long line most of the time on walks, because all that matters is the dog gets what they need in life. So, if you're giving them those activities at home, or maybe you even go outside just to give them activities, and then in between those activities, you're dawdling around on a long line. Like, it's a fulfilling life. Like, the dog doesn't— isn't born going, God, I hope I'm never on a long line in my life. Yeah, literally. The dog is born and goes, I want to have a really good life. So you can do that. Um, but yeah, I mean, people see videos of me and my dogs and, uh, Enzo off lead. And like the Meet in the Knees challenge, there's a segment in that where I show people me recalling Enzo from a rabbit, barking up a tree, a squirrel from the other end of a field, disappearing into the woods. And people are like, oh my God, how do you do that? Because I, I always say, I'm like, for those of you that have been told you're never going to have your dog off a lead because of their breed, I'm going to show you Enzo. And people like, how have you done that? And I was like, just meeting his needs. Yeah, when I rescued him, he chased everything. Now still chases everything, but what I got rid of is just that— yeah, just crazy, crazy obsessive dog I had.

So much of it is your expectations as well though, isn't it? Because you're, you're like me in the sense where you're like, I have a dog, I know what that dog wants to do. Yeah. And that's cool, we'll work, we'll work together, you know. You want that? Yeah. Whereas like, I think a lot of people are like, how do I take all the things that my dog was bred to do and take it away and make them conform to this idea of like what it is to be dog? Yeah. You know what I mean?

I filmed a video the other day on a walk um, while Zenzo was like 100 meters into the woods barking up a tree at a squirrel. And I was like, "If you get a dog and you want, uh, like a great companion, they're with you on a walk, you can take them to the pub, uh, but you get Enzo, you're— from your perspective, you're gonna always have a bad dog, because Enzo isn't the dog that wants to stay on the path with you. He's always gonna explore." So, It's one of those things where like you might want a Pharaoh Hound, you might want to whip it, but if you're expecting a great little companion, that dog is not going to be a good fit for you because that type of lifestyle is going to be a bit frustrating.

Yeah, I always remember this case that I took on. I'm going to skew the details a bit because I just don't want it to be like identifiable. Um, but the dog was— this is true— the dog was a mix between two herding breeds, quite intense herding breeds, right? Um, she was about 7 years old and had never been on a walk in her entire life because she'd been just kept inside by this family. All right, so then she was rescued. Yeah, adopted out. And the person that had adopted her was like, I want to be able to just take my dog up and sit in the high street and have a coffee. Yeah, we would go outside and this dog was so reactive, she couldn't cope with seeing anyone at all. Like, she would spin, she would lunge. Like, this is a herding dog that's never been outside. Started, and everything that moves is suddenly very stimulating and exciting. And 7 years of, of that frustration.

Yeah, that's a long time as well.

So, so much of it, we were having to be like, I don't think you're gonna get a dog that's non-reactive. And I think they'd gone to a compulsion trainer, he'd put a slip lead on it, made everything worse. And I think a lot of people are like— sometimes what I find difficult is people can start to like spiral into, well, I have this and I have this, and how am I supposed to live my life. And is he eating out the bag? That's probably fine. I've been trying to get him to eat more.

He literally just had a little bit and walked off. Yeah, having a nice time, mate. You got to get the hand technique. I always get the handful and then I kind of like curl my fingers like that, and then I chuck it like this and it gets this like perfect— nice, it's so good.

Um, but yeah, anyway, I was like so many of our conversations had to be like, that this dog is like— but people kind of go, oh, you're saying dogs untrainable, like. And this is why people then go, force-free training doesn't work. And it's like, no, what, what, how, what quality of life is this dog living? Yeah. If they're being dragged around a place that they're miserable, being yanked about on a slip lead, right? So it's like, it's like, yeah, you want your dog to do that, but for what? Because I think so much of it has to be understanding, like, this dog has lived a traumatic life. Yeah. It's unrealistic to expect to go and sit with them in a coffee shop. And this is why I'm always like, it's so important to just know what your expectations are, especially when rescuing a dog. And especially, to be fair, especially when getting a puppy. But I think like, I think it would be easier to take a puppy and go, I'm gonna do XYZ and to have an all right dog. I think it's much harder when people take dogs that have experienced a lot of trauma and go, now I want a dog that's gonna sit next to me in a cafe and be around my grandchildren or whatever.

Smells and noise and movement.

Yeah, we see it quite a lot through because I volunteer with The Pack Project. Yeah, shout out to them, um, who obviously do the Romanian, Romanian rescues. And it's such a, it's such a hard life that a lot of these dogs have lived. And it's like, they are really strict on like, you have to know what you're getting. Like, you are not just getting a dog, like, you are saving a life by doing this. And it's such a different expectation because it's like some of the dogs are absolutely fine. They come home and they're like, well, I'm out of the kennel now, I'm happy. Yeah. But sometimes you're getting a dog that's like fought for their life on the street, has been hit by a car, and like has then lived in a shelter environment. Um, so it's such a different expectation. But it still happens where people will— because I do the interviews a lot of the time as well, and we'll interview people. Yeah, I do the home, like pre-home check interview.

So that's nice. Yeah, I'd love to do that.

And we'll brief people a lot on like, this is what to expect, this is what your first 6 months will look like. There is no guarantee that you could do everything right and this dog will be a calm, happy dog. Like, you know, I mean, they're not— the one thing they don't do, they don't intentionally adopt dogs with severe behavioural problems because it doesn't— like, they can't get, you know, homes for the friendly dogs. So they're not putting aggressive dogs into homes. So it's not a case of like, here's a dog, they're aggressive, good luck. Yeah. But you You can't guarantee that a dog is going to be the same in a home environment as they were in the shelter. So you could have a dog that's like friendly, happy in the shelter, goes into a home and it's like, whoa, where am I? And if that person was really intense and like, like overhandled them and, you know, made them feel really stressy, then you could still have a dog that was then had a bunch of behavioural issues. So it's, it's one of those where it's like so much of it is managing expectations of like, you know, you are, you're not You are not just adopting your dream dog. You are saving a life by doing this. And if that's not what you want, if you want a dog that's gonna be carted around everywhere and be your dream dog, just don't even, don't bother. They won't even entertain the conversation of an adoption.

I think a really good example is, um, it's like if you had a kid and you want them to be, I don't know, a doctor. If they grow up and that's not their need. They have no drive for that. It's like, because of your expectation, yeah, you're gonna have a disappointment of a child. Exactly. You know, but like, what makes parents great is that they— the kids grow up and they, they want to actually do this, and you accept that, and you, you live with that, and you help them with that, and then both people are happy. It's just when you can't be happy because your dog or your kid isn't meeting your expectation, it's like, that's not a bad dog or a bad kid. It's— yeah. It's, it's all down to the expectation. Yeah, again, it's what we started with where a lot of the time behaviors are bad behaviors because they've just decided it's bad.

Well, this is the thing, and like, I've even worked with people where they're like, they will literally list just dog things and be like, how do I stop this? And I'm like, genuine question, why did you get a dog? Because it's like, my dog is excited to see me and they're happy when I come home. My dog licks me is one that I've had. How do I stop my dog from trying to lick me? Excessive, like excessive. Not even excessive.

No, no, they call it excessive. Yeah, excessive licking when they, they see you.

But I've even had like, we try and give him a treat and the dog licks our fingers, how do we stop that? And I'm like, oh really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. I've had like a lot of extreme situations.

Yeah, again, a lot of it is just communication. Yes. Like that's how the dogs learn to communicate. It's like, if you don't like a dog that barks, you'd hate my sausage dog. She doesn't bark all the time, but she doesn't paw, she won't jump up for it, she won't wine. She won't do that. Everything is bark. She's— I love it because I always know when she wants something and what she wants. Um, but yeah, I mean, if you're not into barking, yeah, Birdie's a bad dog in your eyes.

Well, I used to be in a lot of like dog Facebook groups from when I was trying to like get Cassius.

I left all of mine. Oh, I left all of them.

They were so toxic. It was like— but also what made me laugh is like the amount of people in the German Shepherd Facebook group asking how to stop shedding. Yeah, wow, there's hair all over my house, what can I do? It's unbearable.

Yeah, and I'm like, get a greyhound. Yeah, no, expectations. Expectations is always a touchy topic. Yeah, um, because that's when there's no work to do on the dog, it's just, uh, unfortunately you're gonna have to change yourself. Yeah, yeah. Um, so If your, if, if your dog could understand English for 10 seconds, what would be the thing you would say to them?

I would just tell them how much I love them. Oh really? Yeah, I would just be like, I just want you to know how much I actually love you. That's brilliant.

My answer was similar. Mine was going to be, I want you to know I love you and I always will love you And if recall ever sounds scary, that means I do really need you.

Oh no, I would just be like, I would just be like, yeah, I just really want you to know how much I actually love you. Yeah, yeah, like that's, that's literally it.

If they, if they could talk English for 10 seconds, what do you think they would say to you?

I think my German Shepherd would be like, um, I really want you to know that my favourite food is my own shit. Yeah. Please serve it to me on a plate next time. No, I think my German Shepherd would be like, "I want to be free. Let me be free." Yeah. "Set me out into the wild on the condition that you follow me." Yeah. That's what he wants. He wants to be free with me tagging along.

He wants you to be the pet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Indy would be like, "Mother, I love you." Yeah. "What do you want me to do?" "What do you want me to do?" Yeah, that's a working dog for you. Literally, this is, this is, uh, this is what I mean. He just wants to go outside, he wants to go and do something because he's overtired, but he, he has to yell at me about it.

No, he has to, he has to, which is fine. Uh, if you turned into a dog, yeah, for 24 hours, what breed would you be? And what would be the thing you want to do most?

Ooh, I think I would be like a sighthound of some kind. Yeah. Just to fucking run as fast as possible. Yeah, yeah. I'd wanna be something really quick. Yeah. Like, you know when you see dogs and they do their full— like they're putting their full body into it?

They go like straight line, bang, off.

Oh, so quick! Yeah. And you just see their whole, like— you know? That's what I'd wanna do. Yeah. But I'd probably be annoying as a dog, so I'd probably be stuck on lead.

Yeah, that's like, if I was a dog for 24 hours, I'd be the naughtiest dog. Like, my, my humans would not like— and I also think it's such a good concept to think about, is like, if you were in your dog's situation, you'd be doing more than theirs. Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Like, I'd be a right winder.

Yeah.

I look at Enzo every day on a walk and I'm like, dude, you're like— you've come a long way. It's like, if I was in your situation, I would not listen to me, right? Like, you must really appreciate —your recall and your name and me. Like, thank you. 'Cause yeah, if I was a dog for 24 hours... That was gonna be my answer, but for the sake of it, I'm gonna pick a different one. I think I would be a Jack Russell Terrier, and I would just try— I would just destroy everything. Yeah, fair. I wanna know what that feels like, to be this small but with the jaws of a shark. Yeah, for real. Just do the shake thing. I wanna do it. Yeah. I also wanna know... How they can shake off and it not hurt your head. 'Cause if I do that—

Oh yeah, I would get headaches. I don't know how dogs do that. Also, I'd like to do the full body shake, you know, where they shake all the water off.

Yeah, yeah, like start at the head and all the way down.

How do they not hurt their head though?

Hurts my head if I do that.

I don't know, but imagine how nice it is to feel all that loose skin shaking about on your body.

That little tail wagging.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the little, little—

Yeah, my answer was gonna be greyhound. Biggest field in the world. And just run. Yeah, but yeah, I'm gonna say Jack Russell and just shred stuff. Yeah, I just, I just love the thought of it. I absolutely love it. So we are going to be saying yes or no to these breeds on whether they are right or the wrong dog for first-time dog owners. Okay, so we have lots of different breeds. You might already know some of the answers.

No to all of them.

You're only allowed a cat. Um, okay, are we ready? Is this breed for first-time dog owners? A Cane Corso. I'm gonna say no. Yeah. Um, isn't it an Italian Mastiff? Is that a Cane Corso? I think so.

It's a type of Mastiff. You say it like Cane Corso though, don't you? Before we get at it.

Yeah, sorry, my pronunciations on things, I've realised, dreadful. Uh, yeah, they— I see. I think Mastiffs are not terrible for first-time dog owners.

No, yeah, like a lot— a Bullmastiff or something. Yeah, it can be quite—

some, some are great, they're very mellow. But these are Mastiffs that are like bred to work. Like when you get a Mastiff that's also athletic, yeah, yeah.

Also, I would say like I would say anything that has drive and is big is gonna be difficult if you are not used to training things, because it's like, even I think about the most common thing I see is like reactivity, you know, pulling on lead. If you have that but with a dog that size, it's gonna intensify, and if you're not used to that kind of training, it's gonna feel like way worse. Yeah, 100%. Indy, come here please. Come on, stop winding him up. Come on. Good boy. Okay. You come here. Another breed.

Is this good for a first-time dog owner? Sausage dog. I'm not gonna look at your answer. Yeah. I'm gonna say yes. Yeah. Yeah, I think— With the right expectations. Yeah, with the right expectations, but also the right handling. Mm-hmm. 'Cause the one common issue you get with sausage dogs is what you get with a lot of small dogs, is that a lot more things can come across quite scary to them. The reason why small dogs tend to be quite reactive is not because they think they're big, which is what people call it, like, small dog syndrome. Uh, it's just because they're far more likely to be insecure. Like, if big old German Shepherd over there came wandering up to a sausage dog and then went wandering up to another German Shepherd, the sausage dog is going to feel a bit more uncomfortable. So If you are pretty on it when it comes to things like exposure, um, overhandling, um, then you're not likely to see those issues. Meeting the needs of a sausage dog, 99% of the time it's going to be what I'd class as an easier dog. Yeah, unless you get Purdy.

Oh, I think it's about expectations as well, because it's like they can be barky, they can be noisy. So I think as long as you know what you're getting yourself in for, yeah, um, I think it's fine and accepting around that as well, rather than being like, I'm going to take a sausage dog and I'm going to make them silent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My sausage dog is— she's barky, but it's not barking all the time. It's just that's her form of communication.

And also I think size as well. Like, I always say, if you're not sure on a training exercise, it's going to be easier to manage with the smaller dogs. If you're like, I don't know how to do loose lead walking, for example, it's not going to be a bigger deal with a sausage dog.

But that's where like the overhandling issue can sometimes come in. Sometimes people are like, the dog's easier to manage because I can control them easier.

For sure.

But what you end up doing is creating a dog that's always forced to do stuff. Yeah. But from the person's perspective is, I'm just dragging them along. Yeah. Or I'm just stopping them from doing this. But it's like, if you were doing that to the, the Corso, uh, you'd realize why it's a big bit of an issue. Um, and, and the one thing I also find with small dogs is that they are misunderstood a bit when it comes to reading body language. So even with other dogs The reason why Purdy has to be so barky sometimes is from experience. I've seen dogs don't always pick up that she's snarling. Yeah. Or that she is tensing up. So she jumps to barking sooner because she's learnt that's what works. So that's typically also why they tend to be a bit barky. But I think, yeah, sausage dogs are right for first-timers. Right. Is this good for a first-time dog owner? A Pharaoh Hound? Straight up, no. You've put yes. Oh, no. I was looking at me. No. I have one of these. It's not your typical sighthound. They are bred for long-distance hunting. They were, they were used as the scent and the sight. So these are not dogs that they run around and then rest. If you went on to the Pharaoh Hound Facebook pages, you would see that they all struggle with them barking, needing attention. They're the opposite of what you get when you get a Whippet. So always do your research. These dogs need a lot of space and a lot of work compared to what you would expect from a sighthound.

Indeed. Indeed. Don't go on. Look how tired he looks. Don't go winding him up. Good boy. Okay.

Is this good for first-timers? We have GSD. No. This was my first dog, actually.

So I'm being a hypocrite.

Whoa. However. But it didn't start amazingly.

Well, actually, here's the thing. Okay, I'm insane, right? Okay, brilliant. So I did not grow up with dogs, had no experience with dogs really. None of my family had had dogs, and I went straight in there with a German Shepherd. And but here's the thing, I had done the most amount of reading and training beforehand. Like, I watched every video I could find, I read every book under the sun on dog training, and I knew that I wanted a dog that was going to be able to like keep up with the amount of stuff I wanted to do. Yeah. And I was so prepared. I interviewed dozens of breeders and rejected them all because they weren't good enough for my standards. And it was still hard and it was still difficult. And I, I could pursue through it because I was like, this is, you know, what I wanted. And it was still difficult. They are very bitey as puppies. They, um, are very difficult dogs when you rescue them as well. I'm not putting people off, but it's like they do take time to form bonds with people. So like, you bring them home and they just sort of look at you like— and so even to the point where when I got India, I was like, I know it will take me time to bond with this dog because that's what puppies are like. And it was just the complete opposite. He was like, yay, you can take me home! But Cassie has literally sat under my table and like glared at me for a solid week to be like, I can't believe you've taken me away. Um, and like, I think if you're really neurotic like me and you're gonna do the absolute most and then quit your job and form a career around your dog, sure, go ahead, get a German Shepherd. Um, however, I think they are very hard work. They are independent, and they are— just because they come up as like intelligent, that doesn't mean they're easy to train. Yeah, they're like, they're very good at outsmarting you, and I would, I would not recommend.

Yeah, and getting from good breeders are really important with the German Shepherd because when it comes to dogs, uh, fearful stage or hazard avoidance stage, whatever you want to call it, um, they have two and the earliest one, um, is— well, so the dog that starts their first fearful stage the latest is the Labrador, which is why they have that tendency of always being that dog that like wanders into the vet's, fine as a puppy, and they're pretty well-rounded dogs. The reason why German Shepherds typically are quite highly strung is because they start their first hazard avoidance stage earlier than any breed. So 32 days old, they start that stage. So if you get them from an inexperienced breeder you're gonna get quite the highly strung German Shepherd. So you get that reactivity, that sensitivity to movement and noises.

So yeah, like she was doing with him, like handling every day, looking into their eyes, like they were going out in the garden and like interacting with all the other dogs in the household. Like they— she was doing the absolute most. And honestly, it like, it breaks my heart when I see dogs online where it's like, my dog's had puppies, and it's some sort of German Shepherd or German Shepherd, and they grew up in the kitchen. Yeah, because it's just like, they need a lot more socialization compared to like a golden retriever, for example, because they, they do— they can be naturally more like skeptical of new things. So like I said, when I— when he was a puppy, I was like taking him everywhere. He was— I was getting him to meet like more dogs than I would. But you know where they say it's all about exposure, not meeting? Like, nope, for him, meeting as many dogs as possible, like playing, having good experiences, like saying hi, coming away, like all of that stuff, like going and sitting in cafes. And he has come out very neutral. Yeah. I mean, if I hadn't have done those things, he's fantastic. Yeah, like, he's— I mean, he's a bit restless today because he's got a bad tummy. Yeah. Um, but he's like, he's not bothered about people. Like, he'll say hi to dogs, but he's not like gonna run up to them. And that's with excessive socialization. Yeah. Um, so I think, you know, if I hadn't done that, like, you know. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, I think, yeah, first-time dog owner is definitely a no. Also just because comparing to most breeds A lot of German Shepherds do need quite a bit of work as well, like, especially if you get like working line German Shepherd. That is, that is a rocket ship of a dog. That is, for anyone, you get the working line of any breed, it's not what you're used to. No, it's a different dog.

But, and if even if you don't, like, people I think sometimes think like, well, they're pet line, so they'll be easy. Like, you know, they're just the same drive, less bitter balls a lot of the time. They're like same energy levels, they just don't want to work with you.

Yeah, you've got German Shepherd, which is not good for first-time dog owners. And then you've got Working Line German Shepherd, which is absolutely not a good dog for even if you've had 10 before. Like, literally, no, definitely change your expectations. Okay, first-time dog owners, what about this breed? We have a Working Labrador. I'm gonna say no.

No, I'm gonna say yes. Okay, so here's the thing. Go ahead, do it. So I, again, I think this is about expectations. Like, you do need to know what you're doing roughly with training. Like, but I think you could sort of freestyle training itself and come out with a well-rounded dog. Yeah. Um, they do have a— obviously they have high drive and high energy, so you do need to be— you need to have that expectation. But I think, like, when I think about a lot of the people that I work with who are like first-time dog owners, like, people are starting to become more educated, especially in like— I think particularly, like, I don't know, it just tends to be that the people in my audience, for example, like, they know what they're doing a lot of the time. Like, they know roughly about positive reinforcement training and whatnot. And I think the good thing about like working Labs and Goldens is even though they have that high drive, they tend to be very biddable. So I think if someone's going to take— yeah, I think if I look at that versus a German Shepherd, like, I, I could see you doing an all right job and still coming out with a very well-rounded dog. Yeah. Which is why I think it's like, if I was gonna lean either way, I would probably lean towards— yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've said no, but where I live, most of my clients are working labs or spaniels. Yeah. And it does turn out well quite a lot. So I mean, I'm tempted to say yes. The only reason why I'm saying no to— Laurie!

Indy has no idea what's going on. He's just joining in. Okay, all done. Thank you. Come on then, come jump back Thanks, Cass. You did it, you scared them off.

Um, the only reason why I'm saying no for first-time dog owners is because for me, the bit that first-time dog owners overlook isn't the training, it's the how much work the dog needs. Um, because yeah, especially nowadays, I find first-time dog owners are on it of like great training, positive reinforcement, getting them out and everything, and when it comes to things like fear and exposure, I mean, labs are great for it. They start the hazard avoidance stage at 72 days old. Like, you're gonna have a pretty well-rounded dog. But the difference between a working lab and a show lab— there was actually a study in 2016 with 1,161 dogs, and they had working labs and show labs, working collies and show collies, and they were measuring the levels of impulsivity, so like the drive of the dogs. And they actually found the difference within breed was greater than between breeds. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, getting a working lab was, um, a greater difference from a show lab than if you've got— yeah, than a working collie. So it, it's— if, if you have the, the, the time and the, the ability to meet the needs of a working lab, then yeah, I would say, I would say yes.

Um, I would say as well, like, for me it's not— I don't always look at like first time versus not first time. I always look at the type of person that they are, you know, because it's like, I think if you're super active and you're I want a dog that's going to go on loads of hikes and do all this stuff. Like, sometimes I'm like, how many dogs would they need to go through to get the active dog that they want, you know? Yeah, because like, do you want to settle for like a lap dog for a bit, like, before you're like, okay, I'm leveling up to—

Yeah, I, I think I kind of want to change my answer. I'm, I'm on the fence with working lab. Yeah, it's just the working part stresses me out hearing it.

I think you can keep your answer.

Yeah, it's, it's valuable input if you're just going straight up lab, pet lab, show lab stuff, then perfect for first-time dog owners. One of the best dogs on the planet. It's just when it goes working lab, it does decrease the amount of people that I think would like that. Yeah, 100%. Especially if you're used to like that Labrador you grew up with that was a show lab, but then you're like, oh yeah, you get a lab but from the farmer down the road. Yeah, for real, it's not gonna go as well. No. Okay, is this good for first-time dog owners? Jack Russell Terrier. I'm not gonna look. I'm not gonna look either. I'm going to say— I'm gonna say this. Whoa, we disagreed again. The only reason I'm saying yes is because when it comes to smaller dogs, um, I just find Jack Russell Terriers Uh, naturally more confident ones, only because they are a little bit more out there and independent. Like, they, they take action rather than like, like, say if you've got your little sausage dog and you've got your little Jack Russell, the sausage dog is— for, for me, they are, they're less confident, naturally confident. Terriers are a lot more like, I'm gonna deal with problems I have. Yeah. So I, I've seen this go well a lot The only thing that would make me say no is just expectations again, 'cause a lot of them can be naturally quite high drive. Yeah. So if you've got a little terrier and you don't want a little monster, a Jack Russell Terrier's gonna be a surprise. But if you wanna go with a terrier, I mean, Jack Russell, I think it's a good old choice. So I'mma say yes if you're into terriers. Yeah.

It's all right for dog first times. I'm really on the fence. The only reason I said no is because I've seen so many Jack Russells with behavioural problems. And I think it's because they get lumped into like, I don't know, I think it's because they have a reputation. People like lean into that reputation a lot. And they're like, I think it's important to understand dog behaviour well before getting a dog that has that kind of reputation because I think it could be really easy to go, yeah, Jack Russells are a little nightmare and I want a little nightmare dog, and then get a dog that's like biting people and killing animals. And then people go, oh yeah, yeah, it's just my Jack Russell. So like, I, I think if you knew, if you were like well educated, you like knew what you were doing, I think they would be great to train. I think a lot of it is just like the expectations that people like push onto them, if you know.

I think the reason why I, I said yes is because I don't know about where you live, but honestly, I just feel like my whole life around, around here, when you see that little dog that's just not got a problem in the world they're either 5 years old or 15 years old, it's always that little Jack Russell. Yeah, they just, they can be—

see, I never see that.

Oh, oh, I've seen—

all I see is like Jack Russells that are like 10 years old. Yeah, basically murdered 3 children. Not actually, but you know, you know, like I grew up with one on my street. Yeah, and she was always getting out, always chasing us up the street, always biting people. Really? And it's just like, people like, you know what Jack Russells are like.

No, I mean, and I, and I have seen those. I think it is just like like if you've got the environment and the time, the understanding of a terrier, like Jack Russells for me, I just find they grow up to be such solid little dogs.

Like, I would love one, honestly.

I would love one. I'd get one in a heartbeat. Like, you saw my reaction to the passing Jack Russell Terrier at Crufts.

Yeah, they're a different breed though, you know.

Yeah, I know, but just any sort of little terrier really, really gets me.

I know, I would really love one. Um, can I help you? Go and settle. No, no, you stay here for a bit. Go and settle. But yeah, Jack Russell Terrier.

I, I think if, if you want a terrier and you're a first-time dog owner, a Jack Russell is, I think, a good pick. Fair. Border Terrier, you start upgrading quite a bit. Hmm, interesting. I've, I've seen Border Terriers though, highly strong dogs.

Really? I've always seen the opposite. I've always seen like really chill.

Yeah, it's funny, like the, like, maybe it's location, but yeah, I, I, I like the last one, um, her name was Binky. Oh, lovely little thing. Dude, that dog was a workhorse. They always have such funny names. Yeah, yeah, it's always just like little scruffy terriers. I worked with one she called Diddy.

Oh, so good. Shout out to Hannah.

Yeah, no, that's it. I like— it's interesting that we've seen very different things, but yeah, I've always found Jack Russell Terriers to be such solid dogs. Or yeah, yappy. Yeah, but I think that's yet again just probably a small dog thing.

Also, I'm gonna out my parents here. I had a really bad experience with a Jack Russell when I was a kid. Oh right. My parents basically, without knowing anything about dog training— I've never told this story online— um, without knowing anything about dogs at all, decided we were getting a dog, right? Marched us to the shelter, picked out a Jack Russell. Um, I fell in love with this dog. She used to sleep in my bed, and then 6 weeks later bit my brother on the foot so badly his whole foot had to be stitched back together. Oh yeah, he had to like— literally, my parents were out. I like, I heard him screaming. I like, I'm just like casually dropping this like trauma. Run into the room and this dog's like latched onto his foot, like dragging his foot around. Um, and yeah, he had to have his foot stitched back together. We had to take the dog back. I was heartbroken. It was a tragedy.

I know. See, we had to rehome our Labrador. She was a working lab. Lab, and my parents are doing like 4 walks a day. And looking back, I see why we had issues. Never really— yeah, but we rehomed that Labrador to a farmer and she's right.

Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't actually know what happened to this dog in the end. Like, I was like too young from— like, they were like, we're taking the dog back. But you know, when you're like, I don't know how well this— yeah, like, that's like, if we were looking at that now, that's like level 4 or 5 biting. Like, but it's just, it's just crazy, which is always why I think I'm a little bit more like I know that terriers can sometimes— and obviously this is just one experience, but I've seen them be a lot more like bitey about things. Like some, if they're not— they don't have the right environment.

Yeah, I think a good way of describing a terrier is that they are a lot less hesitant to take action. Yeah. Um, they, they are very like— this is why like when it comes to playing with other dogs, even their play style is very pushy, very rough, 'cause they're terriers. But it's like, it's just— They are, um— Yeah, they are more likely to take action headfirst rather than be the one that steps back, 'cause that's just how they've been bred. It's just, "Oh, go into that mucky, stony, sticky pit and kill all those rats for me." Like, that's what they're made for. Right. Good for first-time dog owners. Oh! Ow! OK. Hey, Golden Retriever! I'm saying yes. Yeah, yeah, Golden Retrievers are just solid dogs. Um, yeah, I mean, there's, there's not surprise why they're such popular breeds. They just, they just, they turn out well.

And it's, it's working one very different type of dog, but yeah, overall I would say as well, like, having worked with them, they can be very difficult during adolescence. And I think that's important to say because people have this expectation of them just being like dopey, easy dogs. They still can be challenging. Yeah, they're still dogs. Also, they're very overbred, so yeah, you have You have to be really careful with where you get a golden retriever from. Yeah, you have to be really careful because they're really overbred, and because of that, um, their life expectancy, if you, if you're not careful, can be really low because they're just— they can develop a bunch of problems.

So yeah, they come in all shapes and sizes, like, and that's how you can tell a dog is overbred, when there's like a breed standard from the Kennel Club. Yeah, but you get like 10 different types of of golden retrievers.

There's like a really high, you know how they have like the different levels of incest that are in breeds? Like the average in golden retrievers is really high. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Damn. Not him. I checked.

No, pretty boy like that. What have we got?

Gonna start calling him Joffrey. We've got collies. I'm not gonna look either.

Um, I, I am going to say no.

Yeah, I'm gonna say no as well.

Yeah, I think trainability— you are very likely to get a dog that wants to work with you, focus on you. They will be that like companion dog, but they do also come with the tendency of just being hard to provide for. Yeah, um, because like the video we looked at yesterday showing what Collies are bred for, it's, it's it's one of those things like, if you can give that dog the outlet they need, which is quite specific, like big long walks for those dogs isn't really gonna do that much compared to, I mean, like any other breed, really. They're the most human-like breed. Like they're the— for me, they're the least dog-like dogs. Do you think? Apart from like maybe toy breeds.

I always think German Shepherds are the least dog-like.

Yeah, well, I suppose I think any dog in that like shepherd group is.

Yeah, for sure.

But yeah, these are dogs where big long walks doesn't do a fantastic amount. So if, if you're there and you're into training, you're into working, um, you could do it for sure.

I think as well, if you're getting a Collie, you have to be really aware of the behavioral, like, the serious issues that they can develop, because they can be more prone to certain, like, neurological conditions and things like that. And I've, I've seen a lot of Collies with, like, severe fear. Yeah, because a lot of the time as well, it's like I think people will go and get the, like, rejects from the farm. That sounds really harsh, but like, you know what I mean? The ones that didn't make it as working dogs because they're like, oh, they're going to be really good, they're just not going to have made the cut. Like, it's not like that often. It's like, it's actually the opposite because a lot of the time what you have is a very, very high-energy dog with a lot of needs that doesn't want to work. So you're not getting the easy one that just didn't quite make the cut.

You're normally getting the dog that is difficult, is the most, most important thing, because they're bred to just be so on it with everything that moves. Yeah. So if you don't do a good job early on exposure, you get a very reactive dog. Not in the case of like barking, but just like so easy to go after everything. Yeah, and just, just so easy distracted, and you just feel like they're not in the same room as you.

I think a Collie, like, honestly, I wouldn't recommend them for most people like first time. Yeah. Like, I thought about getting one when I got— was gonna get Indy, and I just in the end was like The gamble of like what you get with a collie. Yeah. I just was like, I'm not prepared to do it.

I was having a chat with, um, Dale, who's editing this. Um, he saw a Welsh collie the other day, and they're one of my favourite breeds. There's something about a Welsh collie because they, they come in like the classic black and white, but they also can come with like ginger throughout them as well. And they're a good size, and they're not as like intense as like the Border Collie. Uh, but it's still a collie. And for, for me, yeah, again, we'll talk about expectations. I don't actually like dogs that look at me like a god, that want attention, that want to work with me. I love hounds for the fact that they can go and entertain themselves and interact with the environment, and they are easier to please. Um, so yeah, I'm— I'll probably never get a Welsh collie because I— yeah, for me it just doesn't sound fun training and working a dog every day. Yeah, even though it's something I do like to do.

Yeah, for sure. I think like the best collie I've seen, um, I used to love working with this client. She, she would just be like, yeah, I just want to learn tricks, that's all. I want you to come around and teach me 3 new tricks a week. And that's what we did for ages.

And that dog would love that.

The dog loved it. We were working on like more and more complex things, like, you know, say prayers and stuff like that. So cute. They would go and like, you know, she lives in an apartment in the middle of the city center, and this dog just lived the best life, had everything. But it— this dog was literally always on. It's like always like, what next, what next, what next? Um, and I just— I'm too scatty for that. Like, I couldn't have that. I'm not organized enough.

Yeah, if you're like— because I think everybody when they get a dog, first-time dog owners, you know, like kind of excited for the training, and it's like, that is a dog that would love that. But it's one of those things where, like, are you going to be doing that regularly for, like, the whole dog's life? Because they're just, they're just worried about you and what you want. And it's one of those things, if, if you're not this regular source of that work, you then get the dogs that are like, I'm gonna look for a dog to herd. Yeah, yeah, I have recall around dogs. It's like, that's a herding outlet for your dog. That's not just play. Yeah. So yeah, I think overall not best for first-timers, but it's just a completely different type of dog. Yeah, literally. Okay. This is where we start repeating. No. Oh, King Charles Spaniel, 100%. Oh, I was like, no, I keep looking at the one that's facing me. I think the King Charles Spaniel is the best pet dog on the planet.

I disagree. Screw you.

Only for the health. For the health. Okay, yeah, sure, but overall that is a dog that has been bred to be a pet for so long. They're not like highly strung, they're not really hard to provide for, they're not completely disconnected, uh, like a hound, or they're not super on it like a collie. Like, I just think overall that is just—

that's Indy's scared bark. Get a German Shepherd.

Get a German Shepherd, they'll let you know. They'll let you know there's stuff outside.

I love a King Charles Spaniel. It's all right. Um, they're also adorable. They're so cute. I would just say be really careful with health problems. Yeah, because I think there's something— I'm not an expert, but there's something to do with the skulls and things like that where a lot of them are so badly bred that the quality of life is really poor, right? Um, I think like it's something like their skulls, because they're bred to have such small heads, a lot of their skulls are too small. They get eye problems, they can lose their eyes really easily. And also like their skulls are too small for their brains a lot of the time, so it causes a lot pain. Yeah, they can live quite painful lives.

Frenchies, they get like these bulging eyes and then they get like eye cysts and stuff. Yes.

Yeah, you just have to be really careful because I would say if you don't know much about dogs and you're gonna rush out and get one, this is a breed where you have to be extra, extra careful when it comes to like doing your research and understanding health and stuff like that from a good breeder.

Yeah, but as a dog minus the pet— the, the health issues I don't know if you can get better than a King Charles, especially for first time. It's like, just so good. But also just one thing to be aware of, smaller dog. So socialisation, just be a bit careful, learn how to read them. They can get scared of things. Right. And we have that one already. That one already. Oh, we have a Whippet. So, we have a Whippet. Yeah. 100%. Although we said earlier about sighthounds being slightly more difficult as pets because people tend to expect a dog to be a nice little companion. Sighthounds, scent hounds tend to be a bit more distant. Overall though, a Whippet is solid, like, especially when it comes to like tiring them out, to like meeting their needs. Yeah, that is a dog where actually running them about isn't just physical exercise. Running them about isn't just physical exercise, that is actually an outlet for them. So the traditional whole kind of like, we're gonna go on a big walk, we're gonna play fetch and everything, that actually would also meet the needs of this dog. Yeah. Of course, be aware of like arousal still, but I find them really easy to just like train as well.

Just to get to walk nicely, so easy.

Yeah, like, yeah, when it, when it comes to trainability, Whippets for sighthounds is like surprisingly on it. Yeah, like they, they are like the most companion-type sighthounds you get. Yeah, I think like King Charles and Whippet are up there with like some of the best dogs for first owners. Yeah, also Whippets They're just adorable.

I know, they're like little— they're like—

my first ever client was a Whippet. Really? Mine was a Cocker Spaniel.

Oh yeah, I don't think they know they were my first client ever.

Oh really? Yeah, you don't want to tell them.

I was like, I'm a professional dog trainer.

No, honestly, Whippets— I don't have a bad word about a Whippet. That— those, those ears, those ears tuck in and they just look like little missiles and also like a seal.

Yeah, so cute. So sweet.

Okay, might get some repeats. First-time dog owners, we'll go back one. French Bulldogs. Um, no, I, I think they're just not a dog to get anyway. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. As someone— but I don't even know if you know this— I had a French Bulldog. Ah, first dog I ever bought for myself. Really? We put her down a week after her first birthday. Um, health issues. Really?

Dogs, do you want to tell the story?

Oh, I mean, yeah, it's, it's quite a common story though. List the beha— list the health issues Frenchies get. She had every single one. So like, these dogs are bred to be like— their skeletons have been bred to be really small, but they have the same fat and muscle tissue as what they were before. So everything is crammed. So struggle to teeth, squished nose, cleft palate. Because they were— she squished, her stomach was the wrong angle and up in her chest, so she had acid reflux. And that's what caused the issues, because we had the— she had the surgeries. She had 2 surgeries before her first birthday. Bless her. Um, because she had acid reflux, the cleft palate surgery never healed. It just kept swelling. Yeah. So it was to the point where she couldn't sleep sleep because she put her head down and you'd instantly hear the breathing stop. So she'd wake up 10 seconds later going like that. So she could only sleep on my lap here with her chin across on my knee. Um, and yeah, so we just end up putting her down because nothing was working. That's so sad. Yeah, it was. Oh, and also allergies to everything. She was on hypoallergenic food, um, and they were like, yeah, she'll never be able to eat anything else apart from these white disgusting pellets. So yeah, like, I'm sure the French Bulldog before we destroyed them was just a pretty solid bulldog. I think bulldogs are just great dogs anyway. Um, they're like, I know they are the only like smaller breed of dog that kind of comes out with a bit of confidence.

Yeah. Oh God, they're like a cannonball, like headfirst into everything.

Yeah, like when you think about like English Bulldogs. Yeah, like they're like, it's, it's rare that you see a really scatty one. Yeah, they're, they're like headfirst dogs. Like, I, I, and I do like Frenchies because they're like bulldogs, but yeah, yeah, I just think they're not good dogs for anyone to get.

I think this is the thing, and it's funny because I think when we talk about things like this as dog trainers, it's like we're not saying this because we don't like the dogs that we work with, it's because there's so many health issues in the breed. And it's— we're not saying you're a bad person if you have a Frenchie. It's like, it's the people that just breed them and don't care and like sell you a dog. Oh, it's like go, oh, fucking hate this.

It's like the furry French Bulldogs that have recently come out in America. Oh, God, the fluffy ones.

They're coming over here now. I know someone's got one.

Whoever made the furry French Bulldog, I don't know you personally, but I do want to say I generally don't like you. I'm going to say that with confidence because, like, it's just not right. You've got a dog already that struggles in the heat because they are designed and broken dogs. And now you're covering them in fur, and I'm sure whatever you mix them with is gonna make it worse. Like, yeah, can we leave the French Bulldog alone, please? And they're— yeah, they're not good. They're just— it's bad. It's to the point where it's like animal abuse. Like, continuing to make these dogs and change these dogs is straight up animal abuse. It's horrible.

They're being banned in a lot of countries. Good. So actually, Cavalier King Charles are as well. Well, King Charles. Oh, because of the health issues.

Damn. Well, if that— I mean, ban those dogs, not the ones biting people, because I mean, yeah, for real, that's a better fix. Okay, um, I think we might just pick what's left because otherwise we'll be spinning a million times. We've got, uh, Basset Hound.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't know enough about them to make much of a judgment, right?

So I see Basset Hounds as just Beagles with health problems. Yeah, fair. Um, I think scent hounds, we've already spoken about, is just like, they're, they're good dogs. You just gotta have different expectations. They're not like your straight up companion. If you get these dogs sniffing and searching, you're going to meet their needs quite easily. But it's just when it comes to the Basset Hound, it's just health issues again. And they, they seem to be, um, a little bit more stubborn in quotation marks.

Stubborn is just— I've only ever seen them just sort of just lying there.

Yeah, I mean, overall, I think they do turn out to be quite good dogs. It's just, um, and they are probably all right for first-timers. It's just, uh, when it comes to training them, the reinforcement they need isn't— they're not gonna go crazy for like food and toys. You need to make it around sniffing and searching, and then they'll be really happy dogs and they won't come across as stubborn. Um, but overall, I'd say No, I'm actually a team manager. I think it's fine. I am gonna say, I'm gonna say yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and I think the last one is— oh no, we've got two more. Bernese Mountain Dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big dog, but it's quite chill, but quite chill. Yeah, it's one of those— Potter about. Yeah, it's like what we talked about earlier. It's a big dog that's not crazy athletic and highly driven, so it's like exercising that dog. I mean, yeah, the dog's not gonna go forever and ever and ever. Um, yeah, they turn out great. I mean, yeah, I love them.

I like rarely see them as clients other than as puppies, and they're so cute. They are so cute.

Even like adults, they still sometimes somehow have that puppy-ish— yeah, so cute. I love them. They, they're like, they're like a Disney character.

Yeah, for real. They're so brilliant.

I feel like his spirit animal is a Bernese. You think? Yeah, I get very similar vibes.

He's too wired, you know, when he's in his head.

Yeah, I'm just looking at his face, like, I get the same feeling. Like he could be like a little cute Disney character.

He could. Easy.

Yeah, he could. And the last one is the Belgian Malinois. Yes, 100%.

Everybody, I think if you're a first-time dog owner and you have no idea what you're doing, you should go on Google, go on Gumtree. Yeah, find someone that's breeding a Belgian Malinois and pick a random puppy because they're really easy to train.

Really easy to train.

Never any problems. Never. No. Cuddly. Yeah. Really cuddly, actually. Really good with all children. Yeah. They love to lick. They don't really, they don't bite much either. They don't bite.

No. Yeah, no. Dreadful. Opposite of everything we just said. Hardest. I don't know if you can agree. I think it is the hardest breed of dog on the planet. I don't think you can get harder.

I would probably disagree a little bit. Okay. Because here's the thing. I think there's a lot of hype around Malinois because they are the, like, because they are a working dog and because they are, like, used for the police and the military a lot. And so I think they've sort of been, like, scooped up in this, like, online noise of, like, look at me, I can train a Malinois. And, like, I've worked with them and they can be really easy to train if you know what you're doing. They are bitey. I wouldn't recommend them for a first-time dog owner. But I, like, I do think that they get overhyped a lot on the internet because people are like, oh, I wanna be a big strong—

Yeah, boy, and the videos of them climbing ladders and doing tightropes and stuff. Yeah, yeah.

I think like you could get any dog that is bred to work with a similar drive and have a difficult time. Yeah, 100%. They are going to be more, they are going to be more up than a lot of them. Like, you know, I think if I had a working Malinois versus a working German Shepherd, I think the Malinois is going to be more difficult.

Um, and I'd pick a Border Collie over a Malinois as well.

Would you? See, I wouldn't. Really? Yeah. Because what—

but for me, a Belgian Malinois is just a working collie that bites more.

But I, I can deal with the biting better than I can deal with the, like, obsession-based behaviours, because the things I have— yeah, it's like they can be very, like, fixated on things. Yeah. And that can be difficult. And it can be difficult if you have a dog that only is obsessed with the frisbee and won't do anything unless the frisbee's there, for example. Like, with a Malinois, I think you're going to do the right outlets and stuff, and you can teach bite inhibition and stuff.

Yeah. And I suppose they're a bit more like a Swiss Army knife. Yeah. It's like Actually, yeah, that's a good point, 'cause I feel like they can be pleased by more things.

The only reason I say this as well is because I find that there's a lot of people out there who use Malinois because they have a point to prove. And it's like they use it as a way to justify force or justify being harsh. And they're like, if you see a Malinois doing Malinois things, to me it's not that impressive, you know what I mean? Like it is, obviously training's impressive, but I say that because it comes in, again, with a lot of this toxic like masculinity attitude of the industry of like, I'm gonna get a Malinois and I'm gonna prove that I can train this dog better than anyone else can train because I've trained a Malinois. And like, yeah, they are still working dogs that are easy to train because they're very biddable. Just, I wouldn't recommend them for like a pet. 100%.

And it is interesting. Yeah, it's interesting what you say that you always see them doing Malinois stuff. You never see them social, like mixing their Malinois with those dogs on a walk or sitting at a cafe with the Malinois. Like, you never see them doing stuff that 99% of their viewership are trying to do with dogs. It's just, if you have your own land and you have assault courses, um, follow me. Yeah.

And this is the thing, and I think when you see somebody who has a Malinois and they're a dog trainer and they're using their dog's behaviour as a way to sell you a service, yeah, like, you have to be so careful because it's like, you have a pet dog. I always remember because I saw one of your videos once and it always sticks in my head where you were talking about it and you go, half of the dog trainers on the internet, when they are demonstrating training, they're using working dogs and it's not the same. And I always think about it. Yeah. Because I'm like, yeah, it's so true. It's like, you see and you compare yourself to these people who are like training working dogs, and it's like, if somebody is a trainer living on a training complex and all they do is train dogs all day, and then they get their dog out and train their dog all day. Yeah. Such a different thing to you going and working a 9 to 5, coming home and taking out like hyped up German Shepherd out for a walk and struggling because they're reactive, you know. It's not— those two things are not the same, you know.

Yeah, I think you using, using the dog, dog's tricks and assault courses and stuff like that as a, as a demonstration of like, buy my course, is— I don't know, on paper it sounds right, but it's just like, they've got, yeah, working Malinois, and I guarantee you they work that Malinois every day. Like, that's their full-time job. Job. So it's not the best person to look up to and a course to get. Now, is that every single one? I think that is. Game completed. Well done. Would you rather have loose lead walking or perfect recall?

This is a trick question.

But you can only pick one. And it's probably—

I think we're gonna say different things.

I do too, because of what I'm about to say. I— it's probably because we have different lifestyles as well. I'm saying recall. I'm saying— yeah, so I mean, it's probably because your dog's on the lead way more than mine. Like, yeah, like, we're what, we're in beginning of April right now. Enzo hasn't been on the lead yet this year. Yeah, so for me, recall is everything, so I would rather have that. I couldn't care less if Enzo pulled like a train because he's never on the lead. Yeah, fair. Yeah, recall for me, for my lifestyle.

I have the opposite where I Um, you do pavement walks more than me. I do pavement walks a lot. Like, I do pavement walks like late at night. Um, I like have two big dogs and I live alone as well, so it's like easier for me to have them walk nicely on the lead. Like, it would benefit my life more.

Yeah. Um, but guys, achieving loose lead walking and good recall, it's, it's the same thing. I would say the definition of, the definition of recall is trying to make a word more valuable to your dog than that thing over there. Definition of loose lead walking is making next to you more valuable than that thing over there.

So, and those are basically also, those are the same thing because I always say to people, like, with recall, it's not about your recall cue. Yeah, it's about your dog wanting to be with you and like looking to you in the first place for that instruction. Because you have a dog that's not even like, doesn't care about listening to you in the first place, you could shout into the abyss and it makes no difference.

Yes. Yeah, 100%. And I always say, like, if someone comes to me with a dog pulling on the lead and has got terrible recall. The approach is the same thing. I was like, oh, we're gonna work on both at the same time. So that's a lot of training. I'm like, no, your dog doesn't have recall and pulls on the lead because they're just really hyperactive. Yeah, they're really frustrated. So yeah, I mean, achieving those things is very, very similar. The training part is just simply teaching the cues and tidying up the edges. But, um, yeah, I like that answer. Interesting.

Okay, I also want to say this is a really funny demonstration for anybody who's thinking about Brie. It's between a tired golden retriever and a tired German Shepherd. Yes. Because he's doing this because he is tired and he doesn't know how to do anything else.

He probably, I mean, like last night when it cooled down, you popped him in the car and he went straight to sleep. Straight to sleep. So a lot of this is maybe him telling us, I want to go sit in the car. He— But it's a bit warm out, so.

It's a bit too warm for him to do that. But he like, he needs help to be settled. Yeah. Like he needs, needs a bit more like babying, whereas he's like, night night.

Yeah, it's just that communication topic again. It's nice to see a German Shepherd that doesn't have like wide bloodshot crazy eyes as well. Lie down. And to be honest, this is a good learning experience. This is how we can tell he's not stressed, because he's got soft eyes. You can see his bottom teeth. His ears are kind of sat down to the side slightly. He's got a very relaxed tail. So he's not stressed. I think a lot of people would probably see this behaviour and be like, oh, it's like attention-seeking stress behaviour. It's not. Like, you look at the body. If he was the opposite of all that doing the same thing, then yeah, it's out of stress.

But yeah, I think— He's just overtired and he's like, play with me. Yeah. Play with me.

I'm tired. Okay. Would you rather have a dog that never pulled on the lead or never jumped up at people? I think, yeah, again, this might be lifestyle-based. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't care about lead pulling. I don't care about jumping up. Really? Yeah, yeah. So I don't— nobody visits me, which sounds— yeah, well, I was also talking about people on walks.

Yeah, I mean, I do so much management with mine anyway that I wouldn't have a scenario where they would be allowed to run up to someone. Yeah. So like, I never have— like, I don't really go up and like let them run up to random people, you know. So for me, again, like, it benefits my lifestyle more to have them not pulling me on the lead. And, um, yeah, like, no one comes into my house really.

Yeah, the reason why I said jump up is just because because I— we actually, we approach every single person we see on a walk. Oh, fair. Yeah, like, I love meeting people and other dogs on walks. I don't.

Yeah, I don't want anybody to talk to me at all. Yeah, I want to put my headphones in. Yeah, I want to listen to My Chemical Romance.

I'm the guy that you bump into me on a walk, we're probably going to stand there talking for 15 minutes kind of thing. I would—

I'm, I'm just like, I probably look so unapproachable on a walk. I'm like, sunglasses on, Really? Hood up.

Yeah, don't talk to me. Oh, I've got a stick in one hand, throwing stones in the other, just walking around. I'm like the— I'm the golden retriever.

Yeah, I'm like— I'm like— yeah, you're the German Shepherd. Don't talk to me, I'm walking, I'm listening to my music. This is why I walk it— I literally— I'm not even joking, I walk my dogs at 9 o'clock at night because I'm like, there's no one there. Wow, I love the darkness.

Wow, we're so opposite.

I know, I'm like I get to see all the bats, 'cause the bats come out. It's so nice. I listen to my nighttime music playlist.

Yeah. Have a great time. Um, would you rather your dog is bombproof around other dogs or bombproof around people? So that obviously means the opposite, means that they are quite reactive. Um... I think we've most probably got the same answer for this. Oh! Whoa! Whoa! I've— wow, I've done dogs only because people are easier to control because people don't come running up to me, but dogs do. That's true.

I think this is a lifestyle thing again though, because I, I already like— I already do not trust other people with dogs on a walk. Like, I get quite— like, I wouldn't be like this with a client, but with my dogs, because I've had bad situations with other dogs in my area, I get quite nervous. Like, so I don't tend to walk in places where there's lots of dogs. Yes. And I'm— I do a lot of management anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Um, whereas for me, like, being able to have people come— I just said I didn't have people come around, but like, having that as an option, being able to go and stay somewhere, or like, even like being able to go on holiday and knowing that I can like leave them to be taken care of, like, for me that would— because I travel a lot. Yeah. Whereas I don't think you go away from your dogs. So it's like, I would rather have that best that like I can manage the dogs and like prevent them from being in those situations. But, um, but yeah, that, you know, I can manage the dogs but still leave them and have that.

I also think because, because of my lifestyle, I'm able to drive to a lot of my walks where we'll, we'll, we'll see more pheasants and rabbits a day than dogs and people. Yeah. Um, so I'd rather my dogs are bulletproof around other dogs, because those are the things that will pop up. Yeah, you can easily tell a person like, please go away, my dog doesn't like you.

That's true. Yeah, but yeah, but again, I think it's a similar thing where like I haven't had a car until— like I've had a— not had a car for a whole year. Yeah, until now. Yeah, so all of my walks have been like on the lead, or I'll have to go on the train. Yeah, or on the bus into town. Yeah, there's a lot more people. There's a lot more people than dogs.

Maybe that's why I chat to people a lot, because I hardly see them and I'm like, yay!

To be fair, I don't really talk. I'm like, I love all my people. Everyone that I talk to is really far away. Oh really? Yeah, there are some people like in a long-distance relationship with every single person in my life. My parents live far away, my sister lives far away, my brother.

Well, I, um, honestly, there are people on, on the walks that I go on where I know so much about their life and their dog, I don't even know their name.

I used to be like that with Cassius a lot more, but I think having the two of them them. Like, it's a lot harder to manage dogs charging up when you're attached to two dogs. I can't leave— 100%. I can leave Cassius and take Indy out, but I couldn't leave Indy at home on his own. Like, he would— he gets really stressed if I take Cassius out. Yeah, so gets that FOMO. Yeah, so if I was having, like, if I was attached to two dogs and then I had a dog charging up to me, yeah, that would be really difficult to manage. So I think that's a lifestyle thing as well.

Yeah, no, that, that's why I like this. Okay, uh, would you rather Have a dog that is food motivated or toy motivated? I feel like we're going to say something different again. Oh, oh, yay! I only just— because I think it's easier.

So much easier and less arousing.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's because toys are really reinforcing, but also typically is paired with the fact that they are very arousing. Amazing. Oh, this is an interesting one. Would you rather your dog ignored all wildlife or ignored all food on the ground out on walks? Be surprised if you didn't know my answer. I think you've just wrote, written the opposite thing. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. I thought you would have actually said food because you were on pavements quite a bit and that's where I feel like you find stuff. How do you address that?

So I'm gonna be honest, my dogs are not bothered about either. Right. So, which is nice. Yeah. But what I tend to find is like, it would be quite easy if you had a dog that was really desperate to get food off the floor, I think it'd be quite easy to just hold them back and like move on. Yeah. When I've seen dogs that are really obsessed with wildlife and wanna chase, the reaction is so explosive.

Yeah.

And it can be very like 0 to 100 and it can be very intense. And I imagine that's a much harder thing to manage than just like stopping a dog from going and eating a sandwich off the floor.

Enzo being an ex-street dog, just straight up scavenger. Oh really? When I rescued him, um, I'd take him downtown around like the Clark's Village and everything, and if he saw— honestly, uh, I think, I think I might have a video of it. Loads of people, super busy weekend. He clocked this guy like 10 people back holding a sandwich, right? And he just watched it like this, and I was like, oh, you're on it with food. And he had a habit of if he saw a bin, he had to pull to sniff it, always checking corners and everything. Like, he knew, like, benches, he knew where food was because it's just reinforcement history. Um, also, if, if I had a dog that ignored wildlife, I'd have to do loads of enrichment with him. Yeah, like wildlife for my dog, I know it's a touchy subject, but the wildlife for my dog is enrichment. I mean, like, that's what smells he's following. Like, if, if you want a dog that sniffs around and walks dogs, 99% of those smells are, oh, there was a rabbit here an hour ago, I'm gonna figure out where this is coming from. So yeah, I'd rather my dog eat normal food.

Yeah, fair. I'm quite lucky, mine not bothered about either.

Um, would you rather an independent type of breed like hounds and terriers, or a more companion-like breed like shepherds and gundogs?

I like how, uh, I'm sat here with a shepherd and a gundog.

Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, my thing is the independent hounds that can do all their own stuff. I don't like personally having a companion dog.

I do. I'm needy and clingy, and I like my dog. Yeah, like, he's quite independent, to be fair. Cassius is. But like Indy, like, I love cuddles. I like that he wants to be on my bed. Like, I like that we can go off and like do things together, or like, you know, I like— I really like all that stuff.

Yeah, so yeah, yeah, it's just not my thing. Yeah, if you're into it, you're into it. But yeah, I, I just love hounds and terriers. Yeah, I just, I love it. I think it says, especially having them now for such a long time, I genuinely, before walks every day, I just get excited to watch them go and work. Yeah, like watching my dogs follow a smell. Some people, like, that's the worst nightmare. Yeah, when Enzo gets a smell and you have the, the typical tail up, neck at 45 degrees, ears forward, perfect pace of him just tracking a smell. Yeah, I was like, keep going, bro.

See, I get that when I get to do like training, training. Yeah, really? Yeah, like if I can shape a behavior. Yeah. Or like train a trick. Yeah, it like lights my soul.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I still, I still love that, but for me that doesn't top watching a dog going— yeah, for me, go and be a proper dog.

Like when I was like, when I was training Indy retrieval stuff and he just like got it. Yeah, because because that's, you know, what he's like. Yeah. And yeah, like looking at him like want to work with me and like looking to me for, you know, yeah, activities to do. I was like, oh, this is great.

I love it so much. Yeah, no, honestly, watching dogs do any sort of work is just, it's like a drug.

Oh, it's great.

Yeah. Oh yeah, I mean, I still gotta upload it. Watch us watching the gundogs. I was, I was on drugs. Yeah, it was so lovely to watch. Yeah, yeah. Um, right. Right, we're gonna sign off here. I don't know how you sign off a podcast. We are on YouTube, so thank you very much for watching. Don't you dog your dog. Oh, don't you dog your dog. Bad dogs don't exist. Um, go follow Amelia. Yeah, I don't have a slogan. No, you need one.

Actually, I do. I just don't post it anywhere.

It's kindness leads the way. Oh, I like it.

Yeah, put it somewhere. I know, I have had it for ages.

I just don't Emilia also has a really nice 30-day loose lead training course, which by the way isn't just going to help you with loose lead training. I think you should change the name of it. It helps you with all sorts of engagement and just dog loving you out on walk, which is what ends up getting loose lead walking and recall and also a dog that's great around distractions. So it just, it helps everything. So go get that. Is it free? How much is it? £69. Oh, £69. That's what, like less than a consultation with a trainer? So Why not? Yeah, I was guessing 30 exercises, that would cost you hundreds in person and it would take you way longer than 30 days. And you can have the videos forever, so you can do one thing you can't do with in-person trainers, and that is revise. Revising things, guys, get an ability to revise stuff. That's why you do online training, because yeah, you'll forget half of it. I forget half of it. I revise. Amazing, right? Goodbye everyone. This has been Indy, Cass, Amelia, and Max Randall. Signing off. I'm so bad at goodbye.