This Marketing Strategy is Boring But Clients Will Chase You

This is the truth. The best way to get more views and more sales is to stop selling your product or service. I've made millions of dollars selling something else instead. It's called a conversion event. And when I finally figured this out, my entire business changed. So in today's video, I'm going to show you how you can set up a simple conversion event. This could be in person or online. How these events move people along the journey to be ready to buy from you, and how this will be the highest leverage skill you can develop in your business today day. If your content isn't getting clients, this is the missing piece. I have a specific model that I've used to generate millions of dollars. I've grown two businesses with this. I noticed you launched your consulting business using the same format, essentially, and, and you've taken it from nothing to multiple seven figures in a short period of time. Relatively short. And so this works from two people who have, who've been doing it. And, and I think the thing that people just need to realize in the beginning is like, if you look at a continuum, like a spectrum, there's this sliver of people who just, they're not interested in whatever it is that you offer. Then on the opposite side, there's people, there's a sliver of people who are ready to buy whatever it is that you offer. These are the ready now people, but in the middle. And I would say this is 80% of the audience. It's this crowd I would call not yet. They're not ready to do whatever it is that you offer. Maybe they're not even aware of it. They're not problem aware or they're not solution aware or they're just in this area. And this is the area that is most ignored. But that's where all the money is with content.

Yeah.

So everybody is, I would say, losing because they're just focused on this sliver. It's like 5% ready to transact. So we're all fighting over this like vultures. When, if you just go back, just, even if you just moved up, back a little bit, there's people who are just a few questions away. They just need to talk about it. So that's the part that, when I started serving that group, that's when all the views went up. Honestly, that's also where all my conversions went up, and that's how I was able to do this.

Yeah. And the, the powerful thing about this is I don't think it, it's not, it's not inherently bad to Want to grow. But when you serve this group and you get insight from this group that we're Talking about this 80% and it influences your content to actually speak to them in your content.

Yeah.

Because the reality you're. You might be missing them, honestly.

Yeah. This is. So it's similar conversation when we tell people why they're not getting views because they're just selling.

Right.

In this last thing. So I work with people, real estate and mortgage. They're just selling their service. People aren't even ready yet.

Yeah.

So we got to move back. And then same thing with when we're, when we do want to sell, instead of selling the product or service, which people aren't ready for yet, there's a few people who are, but most aren't, then we would sell something else to that group. So if we know that 80% of the audience is not ready for our product or service, selling our product or service is the wrong move. Like, that's why you run into resistance. And you people message us all the time of like, hey, I got some views, but I'm not getting any clients from this or I'm not getting any, any traction with my content or my offer.

Right.

So it's just like shift over to, to serving these people. I realized the reason why I struggled with content and making money online was I was talking to people too late. So I was just like talking to them at the time when they're ready to transact. When you're just a choice amongst all these people. If you talk to people earlier, build a relationship earlier, you. You're the one person that they truly trust.

Dude, this is just a business principle.

Yeah.

So good. Yeah.

Yeah. So then I think like the not yet. If you want a freaking tattoo not yet on yourself somewhere. If you're a creator, that's what's going to make you a lot more money. These are people who are interested, but the timing's not right. These are people who don't even understand what it is that you offer. And they just haven't been educated enough. So they just need to be nurtured. And then getting them from not yet to like now.

Take my card.

Yes. Is the purchase, is the, the process that we're going to talk about today. But before we get into that, what do you think just from coaching people, because I know you talk to people every day. What do you think of the biggest, biggest mistakes creators are making with this?

I believe one of the biggest mistakes is they aren't okay with delaying the ask. So, like, it's like, and I'm, I'm a case study. Yeah, I had an audience, you know, I had a personal brand, I had people that wanted to buy from me, but because I didn't know how to sell or I didn't know, I didn't have the patience to carry them through a process. Like you said, I made zero sales when I made a full on course and tried to launch it. And most people try to do this, hey, here's that thing I've been working on. And it's like, I didn't want it. And no one wakes up wanting to give you money. That's not like what people really think about. And so I like to say the longer you can delay the ask, the more you can ask for. And something I've learned from my business coaches, immersion yields more conversion. So the longer people spend time with you and you got to consider the time spent and how it's spent, not just videos, not just YouTube, but getting people in a room, getting people in a zoom call, which we're going to talk about, but that time spent together, it increases the likeability, the likelihood that they'll buy. And it also increases your chances for being able to charge more. Like you could literally charge more money simply from the idea that people have spent a lot of time with you. Like that's. What about, what are they buying? It doesn't matter. They have spent time with me. Therefore, whatever, whatever I've made important to them is this is increased this high.

Yeah. And like I see this in our industry where people, they have a commission rate or amount they make per transaction and they're trying to maximize that. Right. Nobody wants to make less, they want to make more. They want to be the premium offer.

Right.

But it's hard to be the premium offer if you're just a vendor. Right. And so there's a study, it's, it's, it was done by Google and it's been published about decoding this decision that consumers make. And they said that you need seven hours, multiple touch points, all this other stuff in there, but basically seven hours of content, which is what you're talking about, immersion. Now it can happen before then, but they're just saying on average, this is what it takes somebody. So it's, it's really hard to get to seven hours, you know, just in a short period of time because people are consuming 20 seconds, 30 seconds.

Right.

And so obviously long form like this.

Helps, but it helps, but even contextually.

Yeah.

Like you're probably multitasking, listening or watching this, so it does help. But even getting to that seven hours, because it's not full attention. But that's why I think the thing you're going to share. It literally is the fastest way to expedite those seven hours.

Yeah. So we were trying to see like how do we hit fast forward or watch the 7 hours on 3x2x speed. Like most people are watching. And so there is a way to do this, but previous to that I've had more success with like planting the seeds, having the content. There's a lot of content that you should be putting out that has no expectation of any sales thing. Like, I guess the accident I had was like, I didn't even have a conversion or an offer. I just wanted to make videos that people want to watch. So that's the part where people start and then I think you have to move.

I would like for you to speak to.

Yeah.

And it's. Most people are desperate for a sale because they need to make money.

Yeah.

You're saying that you showed up online to freely give value. Well, in order for you to have been able to do that, you, you were taken care of from another source of income or something. Like how would you encourage somebody who's in a season that needs to make money with this thing? But that's the very thing.

That's a good point. So if you need to make money now, you know, a long term strategy is probably not the best move. A short term sales transactional strategy would be. So that's like literally buying leads, cold calling, knocking doors, hustling. And so I did that for 10 plus years, stacked some money and then was burnt out and honestly saw my business plateau and maybe even start to deteriorate. And then I was like, okay, I could start making videos. But in the beginning, the goal was definitely not, hey, I want to make money from this. It was like, I hope I do. I know there's a path, but for now I just want to make a video that someone would watch online. That's it. Like just give the value. Um, but I think that that's, that's an important point because if you coming in thirsty, it's not going to work.

Yeah. I mean people could feel that in your content.

Yeah. And so we know this when we see people who barely have an audience, they're not getting much views and they're just selling nonstop. It's just, it's just they may as well be running ads. Which by the way, if you are broke or you are in a rough spot, that is A way to get business is to set up a funnel, run ads to that funnel and take calls or send them to a webinar or a VSL or whatever. So there's like, there is a path to getting transactions. But I would say if you can delay it and just get good at communication, get good at video first, that would be step number one. That's like the work you've been doing and now you come into this.

I got DM the other day and was like, hey bro, I know I'm not in your coaching program yet, but all your content you put out. I just made 20 grand or 15 grand from all the information you put out. I'm like, that's why I have a successful business and is cuz people are winning with the free content.

Yes.

And I want that to happen. I'm like, let's go. Way to go, bro.

That, that's the other point of like a lot of people will push back on, especially in my business where people are very salesy and transactional. It's like, hey, I don't want to just give away all this information because then why would you hire me? No, they'll hire you specifically because you gave them. So like, don't sell your service. Give them the blueprint. So, so just people love diy. So people love going to Ikea, building their stuff. I think they love it till they get home and open the box. Then they're like, oh, I need help now. But for that whole trend of diy, why don't we just let them learn? Y so you notice that the plumber who gets the most views and clients on social teaches you to fix your own stuff, right? Same thing with health and fitness. It's booming. But they give you the blueprint. They're like, here's the workout plan. Here's the thing. Like I, I, I follow this guy who was on your show who helps people with back pain. Yeah, because I got back pain, right? And so like I'm watching his stuff. He literally tells me what to do. You don't have to hire him. It's free. Now if you want to put together a custom plan and get on a call with him and get into his program. Yes. And accountability. Now I can hire him, but he's giving away the blueprint and I think his content has blown up 100 by just giving people. So I would say give freely first and foremost. And then just imagine that they're going to take the stuff and never work with you, which is fine. But because of that you get this huge top of funnel awareness. And then a few people do end up choosing to move with you. And you're also building something which is really important for when we get to this conversion style is people have some trust and they already have some relationship with you already. I hope you're enjoying this video and I want to continue to put out the absolute best content that's going to help you move your business and brand forward. But I need your help. So many of you guys are watching this channel but you're not subscribed. And that's the number one thing that's going to help me grow. So if you haven't done so already, hit that subscribe button. Normally I'd have a fancy ad read and promote, promote some product, but today all I want you to do is just subscribe to the channel. And now let's get back to the episode.

Frank Kern says, prove to people you can help them by actually helping them.

Yes.

And, and here's what's cool. It's something I've learned with a friend of mine's brand. She'll just give random tips on her stories, like, hey, I bought this thing from Amazon. It helps me get ready in the morning. Hey, I, I started using this protein and it, it is kind of like all over the place on Instagram stories. But for every little person that did what she said and their life got better for it, even if it's as little as a container to put your, you know, groceries away or something like, I bought this because of you. You influence my behavior. There is a psychological bias to a person that helps you.

Yeah.

So I think that's why you should just be okay with literally helping people. Like that's the goal, to just help people. And don't, don't ask for anything in return, just help them. And what people don't realize too. Speaking of paid ads, like if you have zero, you have no plan to make money and you just want to freely give content. What you're actually doing is you're bringing your ad costs down when you decide to run ads.

Yes.

And so it's going to be so.

Cheap and it's going to bring you're up, bring your conversions up because people already trust you because you've already given them. So I have a framework for this. It's called move. Okay. I don't think I've ever told you this one before. So move. M O V E. Make them notice with the content. So get them attention, make them notice, offer them clarity. So give them like freely give Them information, give them the blueprint. And then the V is important. It's vibes. Okay? This is the personal content. This is you telling those stories and just them getting to know you a little bit. Like pull back the curtain on, on a few things there. Whatever you're comfortable with. And then E is what we're going to get into today, which is enable the next step. That's the conversion point. And so if you've been making, if you haven't been making content that people watch, I would go back to that. Just ask yourself the question. Like, this lady approached me at dinner in, in. I was speaking in an event in Orlando. She comes up to me at dinner and she's like, yo, could you just look at my ig. I'm not getting anywhere. And I was like, I had food in my mouth, literally. And she's like, I don't want to interrupt your dinner, but could you do this 30 minute conversation? Yeah, just go straight in there. And so I'm like, good for her. She's taking advantage. But I look at her page and I said, can I be honest with you? And she's like, yes, please. That's what I'm asking you. I said, okay, good. And by the way, you should, you should always ask people if it's okay to give them feedback. I noticed. Especially if you're going to give them. Because if they're not open to it, they'll always say yes. But now they've given you permission, right? But if they're not open to it, you're just speaking to a brick wall. So she said yes. So I look at her page and all this stuff is just lecturing people, like talking down to them, telling them what they need to do. And I just said, does this, like, just look at it from the audience point of view? Is this helpful? Do you see the. How you're positioning yourself? Also your tone in the stuff, the way you write. And she's like, oh my God. Like she just had this epiphany right there. And she's like, her tone was turning people off. Nobody wants to work with her because she's just lecturing people. So I find that a lot of people who have expertise, they're approaching their content wrong because they're just lecturing and turning people off. So get over that part first. But now that you've got some people watching your stuff, it doesn't have to be a lot and you can run ads to get even more. But now we want to get them to work with you. Okay, so Instead of asking them to move from not yet to ready, I'm placing a step in the middle. And that's what this is. And we call this a conversion event.

You're the goat. You're the goat at this.

Yes. And so I. I remember you. And. And then you ended up implementing it as well. But I remember when I stumbled onto was like a cheat code, because that seven hours we talked about earlier, which can take months, if not years, depending on how often you touch people. And it might even be worse today because people's brains are so overloaded. We have never had this much inputs coming at us, and. And people are just kind of getting burnt out on content. So instead of having to do that, I'm just like, how could I expedite this process? And I was like, okay, we. We can give a blueprint today on this podcast for someone to do it within an hour, one hour, because you have their attention now.

Yep. You can get the. You'll get the seven hours needed in an hour of time spent.

Yes. And you'll get great, great results if you do this properly. So what is a conversion event?

Can I. Can I back up?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. I think people would probably know what an event is in their minds, but I just want to share the biggest mistake people tend to have about the idea of an event, because some people put on events but don't even know it should be a conversion event, which you're going to break down, because people think that the event is the goal. Like, just to get people to do something with you, and you stand on a stage, proverbial stage or whatever, a room or zoom call that. That's the goal. And no, when you think of it with the end in mind, it changes how you approach the whole situation. And I know so many people that put on events, and then it ends, and then they. They break even, and it's a loss. I know people that will get on a discovery call and not make an offer because it was like, I'll let you know later. But I just want people to know that because we were raised to think that the events were the goal. That's the goal. And then that there's no reason for the event other than inspire.

Yeah. That's where people lose money.

That's why.

Yeah, yeah. And so they might host a webinar, for example, because somebody might be, like, watching or listening, like, I don't want to host events. That sounds like a lot. Well, you can make a Zoom link. Okay. If you go to Zoom and you have a Free Zoom account. And you turn registration on, you now have a online event. That's a webinar. Yep. It's a meeting disguised as a webinar, essentially. But you don't have to pay anything. It's just. And it could be 20 people, it could be 200 people. It doesn't matter. But you just would need people to attend a room, virtual or in person, and learn from you. And I think people put that on teach and then go. Go home.

Right.

They don't make the next step known. So that's. We'll get into that. But I think in just knowing that it doesn't have to be in person, just it can be online, that was a freeing thing for me because I'm like, I started off thinking, oh, I got to get all these logistics together. I got to get a room, I got to get speakers. I got to do all this. You don't have to do any of that. You can just be on Zoom. Now. I noticed another thing that prevents people from hosting one of these is they feel like they don't have all the plan for what they're going to do on it. Right. So I think that can be figured out by just scheduling it. We had a situation the other day where somebody was planning on doing this, and I said they wanted my help. And I. And it was in one of our coaching groups. And I said, okay, I'm willing to help you, but fill this worksheet out first. And the worksheet requires them to pick a date, use, you know, AI and come up with some ideas for names. Brainstorm some names. Three things you're gonna learn on this thing. Do all that first, but if you schedule it first, like, I don't know about you, bro, but a lot of my prep ends up expanding to the time that I allow it.

It's Parkinson's law.

Yeah. There's a. There's a rule. So, like, my PowerPoints and presentations for webinars are like. And I don't advise people doing this, but, like, they're timestamped the night of, sometimes the morning of. Right. It's kind of like. I don't know, I'm getting a little risky now because, like, I'll finish it up that day. Maybe because I can pull it off now.

Sure.

But you don't have, like, you. You'll be surprised. Like, if you put a deadline on it, it will happen. You'll make it done.

100. I. I mean, I've been working through that, because we're becoming. We're always investing in ourselves, we're always becoming better. We watch educational content for an entertainment like. So that when we, when we do show up, it's not like this crazy prep. But I think the Parkinson's law, the way you, the way you allow Parkinson's law to work in your favor is that when you don't have a deadline, you're developing yourself.

Yes.

So that when there is a deadline, the person that's meeting it is a better you. And that's how you're actually getting better.

You're ready?

Yeah. You're ready?

Yeah. So I have a thing on my desk, it says stay ready because you don't know when you're going to need it. Right. And so we would, getting to that point, watch, watching, listening to this is going to get ready. So that is, that's the thing of like, okay, don't overthink it. Just schedule it. Now we're going to reverse engineer this. So that's what you said. Think about the end and then work backwards. People think about the start and never get going. So let's flip the whole model on its back. So we want be. We want to think, what's the goal of this?

What's the goal?

The goal should be to take the next step with you. Now, if you like, let's just say you sell homes. The goal should be to start the process of buying home at the end of this call. If you sell a product, a service that helps people start a business or market themselves, the goal should be to take that next step with you. But the thing that we're going to put before that now is what would be required or what would someone need to hear from me in order to take that next step. If you break it down that way, you'll get way more people to take the next step. Most people, like, they think about all the meat of the presentation and then they just throw in a random next step at the end. If you work backwards, it works way better.

100. So if we keep in line with this real estate example, because this is kind of like your subject matter of expertise. If the, if the goal is for them to buy a home, would you say then you need to unpack why people aren't buying homes right now?

Yes. So we want like, okay, what's the problem? You know, what's the opportunity? We also need to break beliefs. This is something I wasn't doing during these webinars and or events is I was just going into teaching, giving a bunch of facts, and then offering my service at the end. Well, There's a large segment of the room or audience online that's not even open to what you're saying. Right. They think they don't qualify. They think that you need a bunch of money or down payments or this. So you have to show them why those beliefs aren't true. Give them proof. We just helped somebody do this who was just like you. They had this problem, and now they're in a home. And so you're breaking beliefs throughout your presentation, and then now people are more bought into when you're ready to move forward.

Yeah. So good. I found people that have a hard time speaking to. The belief in a person is very, is, Is a type of person.

Yeah.

Like you're, you love ticks, tips, tricks and hacks.

Yes.

You're cheap. You're. You're just cheap approach to life. And I, I mean, this is just like work everyone needs to go through because we were all this. At one point, we're all taught from our parents that we should get a discount. And, and, and, and then we actually are looking for anyone who actually wants tactics, needs mindset. And when we say you need to break beliefs, you need to build in somebody's mind that this is possible for them. When you go into the nitty gritty of all this stuff, you're making it seem more impossible. Like, man, I thought this was impossible. Now, I for sure don't want to do this because you're. And I, I always call this out on my calls. Like, when, when they start asking, when my people start like, can you just show us how you do it? I'm like, I'm gonna show you, but I want you guys to watch the comment section. And as I show you, look at all the million questions that are gonna come up from me actually showing you exactly what to do. And then, and like, look, I lost you all on the call.

Yeah.

Because you guys are like, what about, what about that? And then what about this? And it's like, and now if the goal is to get somebody to take action, and in this case, most, I mean, in most cases, businesses are designed to help people solve problems. And if you're not solving a problem, you're. I think you're doing people a disservice.

Well, people don't take action. The reason they don't take action is not because they don't have enough information. It's because they haven't decided. So I think the novice or this person that you're talking about thinks that when I have this information, then I'll do This, but it's the opposite. It's when you've decided to do the thing, then you'll find all the information, you'll find all the resources, you'll put all the pieces together, and that's what we're here for. But they have to make that decision first. So you kind of structure the content around. How can we get someone to say yes to the decision first without overwhelming them with steps and information? You and I both coach a gal, and she was not getting any conversions from one of these presentations. And it was because she was over teaching. Yep. The people left overwhelmed. Yes. They were like, oh, my God. And she thought she was over delivering. She's like, oh, my God, I'm giving you, I'm delivering. Not only did I give you this, I gave you this, this and this. And they just left confused and overwhelmed. So there's a balance there of not over teaching.

I think you should over deliver when somebody becomes a client.

Yes.

So, like, go. Go above and beyond.

What?

But when you're getting somebody to build the confidence to take the next step, you have to know that over delivering isn't a form of service. And it also doesn't mean gatekeeping, because I think sometimes people will be like, well, does that mean I'm like, not sharing? No, that's not what it means. It means that you understand humans and how they function. And really what we're talking about is sales.

Yeah.

And sales can be masked and covered in so many different ways. But when you understand sales, you'll understand that selling is simply understanding the person that is interested.

Yes. And so they. There's a few things you have to do during this. But then the other thing you just mentioned is we don't want to over teach. We don't want to overwhelm people. But at the same time, I think my best events, and there's been a little bit of, like, disagreement on this with people in the industry. Like some people who are more in, I guess, marketing info, info selling. They'll be like, well, if you give too much away, they won't hire you. I have found that you don't want to do too much. You don't want to go beyond a certain point, but you do need to make whatever you're teaching valuable. So I want whatever it is, the webinar event, whatever my talk to be valuable whether or not they pick me or not. Like, whether or not they take the next step so that they leave being like, dude, I loved the way he presented that. He changed the way I thought About X, boom. I'm good. Like I didn't end up working with them right now but great job because you might get them on the next one. They might tell their friend like there's a lot of goodwill built from just educating without having to sell them today 100.

But I love that you said that thought that comes in a person's mind. This person changed the way I thought about this. Not this person changed the way I'm going to do this. It starts with the thought which is why even, even when you do teach quote unquote tactics, you're still, you're still like showing the big picture.

And this is so basic. If we're talking about real estate, which is just a simple example, let's say I'm going to teach you a tactic. There's a piece of software and a way of searching in that software to find undervalued homes, like homes that are price below the market. Cool. I could just go ahead and to show you that. But what if 80% of the call believes that the market's in a bubble and homes are overpriced? What I'm teaching doesn't matter. They just like, it's useless to them. So first we need to break the belief.

Right.

Then we can show them a few things that they could do on their own. So think about that. And this works no matter what business you're in. If you're. I sell B to C with consumers but then I also sell people in our industry on why they need to be doing marketing and doing stuff and same thing with you. Like it's the same process whether it's consumer or business person. It's just a little bit of a tweak of like what you're going to be offering them next. So that would be the next step and then the, I think the psychology or the other reason. And I'd love your opinion on this, bro. I asked people why don't they do more of this. We know it works. We've shown you proof. Why? Why aren't you doing it? Because even your buddy over here did it and Susan did it and John did it. Why aren't you doing it? And they'll tell me their biggest fear is that no one shows up. And I'm like, okay, so driving traffic is keeping you from doing this when that can all be solved with like just a few simple things, you know. And so I have something to say about that. Yeah, let me know. They might be. You think they're not telling the truth?

I, I think I Think it's, it's an early excuse because if a thousand people showed up, you'd poop your pants.

That's true. So, so it's not that you'd be so nervous.

It's not about attendance. It's about you actually going for it. It's actually you in the way of yourself. And, and, and they say like, you know, that one of the biggest frights or things fears is stage fright.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're not normally in front of people. So the idea of getting in front of one person, like when you're thinking about yourself on a stage, it's all, it's all this. And so my thing is, you know, this is the part in business where you could be selfish. And I always say do it for the data. So if you go do it and no one shows up, number one, you don't have to do the presentation. Like go grab a coffee with somebody.

Yeah, yeah.

That's amazing. Number two, go back to the drawing board.

Yeah.

What Were you only wanting to do the presentation once? Were you only wanting to do this conversion?

You need, you need practice.

You need practice. Yeah. So I think, I think there's so much. Why? Because I know people that did I have this, this person in my program, she paid an ad agency to fill a room five minutes before the call. She just didn't show up to it. So I think when people say I'm afraid no one's going to show up. Well, you don't know that. And when. So that means you will do it when one person shows up. I mean they'll still say only one person showed up though, if they were telling you, oh yeah, I did my call, only one person showed up. So you have, you got to remove like that approach. Like the approach is like, I'm doing this to get better. I'm doing this because guys like Neil are telling me that this is the future. And I'm watching him make so much money in his business by doing this. I can do this too.

Yes. This is one to many selling.

It's one too many send.

If you stay with one to one forever, you'll get burnt out. But you, you're honestly going to get left behind. So it's doable. But I remember just, I talk to people every day who are just stuck in making calls one to one. And it's important like you have to do that to close the circle. We have to have a conversation with the client. But if you could just transition some of your time and I'm not asking for much Just a few hours a week to selling one to many with content and with this type of thing, you'll see just a massive change. Because the same reason why somebody picks you and works with you on a one to one. If. Imagine if we talk to 200 people, 20 people, 200 people, whatever. Like the same numbers are going to start to play out, dudes.

And you don't want everyone to show up at your first at bat.

Yeah, that's true.

Because that happened with me. Like people.

We had hundreds of people, dude.

My first two web classes or master classes, I've done over 400.

Just real talk. How, how nervous were you on the call?

I did. You have no idea.

Yeah, you, bro, that's crazy.

And then, and then it's like the million things that are going on around the call. Like, you know, like, are the links working? Yeah. And dude, just take it from me, everyone did show up and no one bought. Not one, not one. So you don't want a ton of people right now. You, you want to extract as much data as you can so that you can actually start teaching the right thing. And this is the process I went to. I know we perused through it, but I have a feeling people are probably like, dang, this over teaching thing, this overwhelming, this over delivering thing, that is actually like that was a process for me to get over. Because when I sent my web class that didn't convert to a bunch of friends of mine, they're like, bro, you're just teaching too much. Like what? I don't know what that means.

Yeah, don't.

Isn't that what you want to do?

Less is more. Yeah. Think about like if we had 200 things you could teach. You've got 20 things you could teach. What are the top three? What are the top seven that you could teach on this thing? And then we can get the rest later. So just prioritize. And if you need help prioritizing brain dump all your stuff into AI and just tell it. Walk, talk back and forth. Say, hey, I need to condense this.

Yeah.

Now I will say that asking people for an hour commitment, in the B2B world, they're more used to that. But in the consumer world, less commitment is better. And then if you're, if you don't have a lot of brand, like meaning they haven't seen your face a lot. This is your first time doing this. I would go on the side of a shorter presentation.

That's good.

So I think for your first presentation I would say 27 minutes.

That's great.

Now that the reason why I pick 27 instead of 30? Because it sounds better specific, like I've planned something for you. It's going to take 27 minutes now it's worth more. The biggest mistake I see people make once they've decided to do it. So the first thing is like you just need to decide when you decide you'll get people on the thing. It's just, it's, it's literally impossible to fail because like you said, you even losing is winning because you get the rep. But there's no way that it would be no people there because you can check the day before and if there's only a few people signed up, you can cancel, you can reschedule it. So you're not going to be stuck either way. Yeah, but I would just say that the number one reason why people don't have enough people attend is they didn't do enough volume of asking. And so you just want to think to yourself, how many people would I have to ask where it would be unreasonable for me to fail? Almost impossible to fail. So does that mean you need to send, if you want 20 people? If you sent out a thousand emails, 2,000 emails, could you get 20 people? Probably. If you sent out calls, DMs, whatever your method is, just do more volume of that tweak if it's not working, but do more volume and then you'll get the people. Yeah, it's solved. Like I've seen people like they message us a day before and they're like, man, I only have 14 opt ins for this web class, dude. And I'm like, okay, well 14 is a lot.

Let me ask you a question. How much money would you make if 10 people processed a loan or sold a house?

Let's just say like if you're making $5,000 per person.

Okay, what are we talking about?

Yeah, that's true. It's high ticket.

This is where people are like, you.

Were going to do an hour call with the client, one to one anyways.

I dude, I'll do a one on one call in this capac. In this time of my season for $5,000 100. This is, this is why I let my friend Richmond Din, who teaches this thing called Tiny challenges. It's just essentially like you can do and you could do a sales call with or a presentation with one person. Yeah. Oh yeah. My most expensive investment in myself, myself. My highest. It was a one on one presentation. David Simmons, ksm. He's like, I'm gonna let me Share the screen real quick. Like, I'm just going to show you what we do.

It was a sales call.

It was a sales call. And there could have been more people on this call, but it was a presentation to see. Let me see the possibility of what it looks like to work with him. And I ended up after that presentation, in about a year and a half, I think we've paid him over $200,000.

Jeez.

And he got me. If he was afraid to show up.

Because one person did. Yeah. So it's like, get more people. If you want more people, just invite more people. Yeah, that's it. So literally this person's like, I only got 14 per the math that you gave us, which is half aren't going to show to a free thing. Maybe even 40 show up to free thing. I'm only going to have low single digits. That would be weird for me. I'm like, first of all, it's not weird because you're selling high ticket, but if you want double digits, let's just double the amount of people that you've. You've asked. You asked a certain amount of people and you got 14. If you asked double the people, you get 28. Let's just do that. So it's just a math equation at this point. And if you don't have the email list, you don't have the context, you don't have the views on social media. I would just say to DM people, hey, Omar, I don't know if you saw this, but on Thursday I'm hosting this thing and I thought of you, dude.

Was it Daniel Priestley said it on one of your podcasts?

Yeah.

DM. 30 people every day for 30 days.

Yeah. So like, if you want it, you'll get it.

That's crazy. Volume. But then also.

But it doesn't even take that much time.

No, it doesn't.

Especially copy paste. And then quick response.

I would say, go in your phone book.

Yeah. Go through your freaking. Your texts, your contacts, invite everybody. And then say, hey, if you're. If it's not for you, would you mind sharing this with someone who might get value from this? They're going to know somebody.

Yeah.

And so I just think you're not asking people. My first business coach said, I said, hey, I want to make more money this year. He said, well, how many people did you ask to do business with you today? I said, no one, because it's the morning. I said, how many people have you asked to do business with you this week? And the number I gave him was embarrassing. He's like, that's why you don't make any money. You just need to ask more. Yeah. So you want to talk to. You want. We could just end the podcast now, bro. Yeah. Yes. But we're giving you a better way to ask more people. So now you got them. You got 14 people, 28 people, maybe 200 people. Doesn't matter. And you're on the call with them. Okay. I just noticed that a shorter, tighter presentation is going to work. One of the biggest reasons why some of these don't work is because of how they're packaged. Yep. The best webinar doesn't win. The best packaged webinar wins. The first part of the packaging is the title. So you need to make your title outcome based. We could do a whole conversation about coming up with titles. We don't have to do that today. But I would just say the biggest mistake I see is your thing is a. You're talking about the thing, not the outcome. So what do people want? They want the outcome, not the thing.

Yeah. I mean, they say don't judge book a book by its cover, but you've never read a book without reading the.

COVID or the title or.

Yeah. So like it. This matters so much. I would, in my. In the skill of marketing, I would get so good at email subject headlines, at titling things, you know, titling YouTube video. Because the thing that's inside it does. You don't have to try. You don't have to be as good. If you're really good at getting the.

Yes from that. The best webinar doesn't win. The best titled webinar wins.

Exactly.

So the title reverse engineers, like, make it about the outcome. So seven ways to get X or, you know, and I've noticed this, you can insert something that breaks a belief even in the title. So if I was teaching how to get more followers on Instagram, I would say, like, how to go viral on Instagram, even if you don't have followers, even if you suck on video, even if you're not tech savvy. Because I know that somebody's thinking that when they're reading the headline.

So where did you get that insight? From somebody who's thinking that.

Yes.

Just conversations.

Just asking people.

Yeah, People will tell you these things. It's almost like people tell you the title.

Yeah. One thing you can do, and I just learned this hack, is when they opt in, you say quick question, and you could do that after the opt in page so you don't lose Anybody. If you do it before, you'll lose a few people because any extra steps, friction causes less opt ins. But let's just say you cop, you get the email first. Next page. They're opted in now for sure. Hey, quick question. When it comes to this, which is what you're about to teach, what's your number one struggle? They'll tell you right there. You can give it a multiple choice, so it's easy to answer. Now you can, you can adjust the content based in real time based on what they just told you. And maybe it's something in there. Like you're like, man, 70% of people picked that. I wasn't even thinking that. So let me adjust my presentation. You're. You'll get more conversions. So like, yes, listen to the audience. But yeah, the most important thing is the title.

What is the secret title you've ever created for a web class or presentation?

The one that I did the most on was the new formula. So the New way to X. It could be the new way to buy a home in Las Vegas, the new way to win on social media. In 2025, I had 9,000, 8,880, to be specific, opt ins for that webinar. The New Way to Win on social media. Because it just implies obviously that there's something novel, right? Something new is about to be taught. It's not going to be the same old crap. So that formula works. I've seen so many different plug and play formulas for these, but it's like I'm teaching a thing and showing you winning and I just think like, go for clear, not clever. I've seen one like my sister did one and it took her a while and I told her this in the meaning, but she's stubborn. She's like, yeah, I don't care. And I get it because I did the same thing with Forward. What is forward? It's kind of vague. You don't know until you know. So she started something called the Future is Female where she's going to teach women how to make more money, invest in real estate, all these things. But it doesn't quite tell you that with the Future Female that could be.

Anything, dude, that's why.

But it took her years. Right now it's a brand and it's crushing for her, but it, it does sign you up for more pain if it's not clear.

Yeah, I mean my, my business is called the video department and it's kind of, it is general in nature and I, and even my podcast is called the department. But the, the things that drive the perception are the title of things and it's how you show up consistently. So I found that like you can call your business whatever you want, just whatever you're using to market people, it just has to be.

Yes.

Adjusting the payoff.

Yes. Outcome based. So I would pick an outcome based headline. If you use AI, just ask it to help you come up with some outcome come based headlines for this thing that you want to teach and we'll give you 20 options and then you could pick the best one. So now that you got that, you've got the people on the call. I just have like a quick framework people can use which would be to define a problem in the beginning, break beliefs and then teach them the tactics. So before you get into tactics, make sure you've defined problems and broken beliefs because they may not even be aware of an issue that's happening right now in the market. So we do that and then we teach something tactical. And so in this you would adjust it based on the time you have. And then at the end I would give them a quick story of why you're doing the next step. So I found that my conversions went up a lot when I would tell them the reason why I'm making this offer. So instead of just going, so the simple framework is like, if you liked what I taught here, you're going to love the next step, which is what you're offering. The thing that you offer should be directly what you taught. I know that kind of goes without saying, but you'd be surprised how many people teach something and then the offer feels like it's from left field. It needs to be like this nice moving train.

I love that you said like, give people the reason why you're doing this next step.

Yeah.

Something I found is very powerful in just your approach to business is demonize what it is you don't do. So if you choose a route to do something and this is the way you do something, it's probably because you don't like why someone else over there is doing it. And so like you demonize the grind of one to one, knocking doors, making phone calls and grinding. You demonize it like people are winning with that strategy. They're just grinding for sure.

It's a different model.

Yeah, but then I do that even from like the standpoint of like the offer itself. Like I say at the end of my presentation, I was like, I'm going to tell you something I could do right now and you would buy it. Something I could do right now is I could sell you a course and you would buy it because right now all you guys want to buy something. But here's why I don't like that, because it just makes you do it on your own.

Dude, that's crazy. I did that by accident once. I was selling a workshop, people in my industry and I said I could do online education for you, but I found that this percentage of people don't get anything from online education. This is why I did the live in person.

You're making the thing you don't do seem like the terrible option. And the thing I'm doing right now is the best option. It's. Yeah, it's a.

That's a great point. Yeah, that might be worth the whole episode right there because that's going to improve conversion. So think about. Oh, and by the way, I forgot about this, and I know we both do. This is let the people know in the beginning of the presentation that you do have something for them later.

Good.

Then there's not going to be any awkwardness. You cannot have your energy change when you're teaching. And then you go into selling. It needs to be the same energy. So you, you tell them why you are doing this, why you do this, why it's important for them. And this is why I launched this. So if it was for people in real estate, for example, it'd be like I found that the most successful buyers, if I look back at all my clients, the people who did this got this. This is why I put together this 10 minute call, this 12 minute call where you figure out these problems and then you have a roadmap for success. Whether you're doing it now or in the future, this is going to be so valuable. And then over, like you, you need to give it the importance it deserves. I found people underplay their expertise because they take it for granted.

Right.

I would tell people, look, I just want to be very clear, this 12 minutes with me on if you take the next step is worth thousands of dollars. So if you're willing to trade 12 minutes for 10k, here's the link. If not, you know, God be with you. Like, you should tell people how important it is.

I mean, enthusiasm sales is a transference of enthusiasm. People move because they believe. You believe what you're saying.

Yeah.

And you get to this place when you actually see life change or you get to this place when you believe in what you do. Like I. And it was, I think I have like an ability to absorb the belief for someone else. And like, you're you. Then make what you sell essential. You're like, dude, buying a home will change the rest of your family's future. Think about your kids.

Yeah.

Like, I've never rented. I've never lived in an apartment because my mom is and my dad have always owned the homes that we've lived in. So I've. I don't know what that life is like, but. But I'm so grateful my parents did that. And, like, this could be you. You could start this generational cycle of whatever.

Yeah. Investors you're speaking to, you know, the audience. Tell them a story that would resonate with them. So. And you can, if you don't have the story, just look through your. Your history of working with people and find one case study.

Yep.

Meet Susan. Meet the.

Meet.

Meet the Johnson family. They came to me with this. This is the problem. And make sure you tell them the pain, like, really good. Like, and then we were able to solve it. So this is why I still do this job. This is why I'm so passionate about doing this. I've been doing 20 years and I still get excited when I get texts like these. So tell them why you do what you do quickly. Don't, like, bore people with a long thing because you're trying to keep in that time slot.

That is also an unlock for, like, the, like, the points in the presentation or when, like, what you're teaching is if you just allow stories that you've actually experienced, like real life things that have taken place, and at the end of that story, you use that story to expose the limiting belief that it broke. So, like, this family came to me. You might be in this position, but here's where they are. They didn't think they're making a lot of money. You know, you have a photo of them and you're just telling a story. You know the story more than anybody else. And, like, this is something AI can't do, by the way. It's like, you know what you brought them through and, like, you can choose the principle of this story that will help somebody else. And the principle is you don't need a large income to start your home ownership journey. Yeah. Next. Next point is a next story. And, like, that's all people need to know. And as you tell the story, you're not going to get into the nitty gritty.

Yes.

You just don't. Because you're. You're just. You need to get the story, you know, along the way.

But, yeah, so it's kind of like you're giving them. You're re breaking the belief again for anybody that didn't already learn during the call and you're just getting more people on board with you. Plus there's something really likable about this. Right? So people want to work with people they know like and trust. Right. If you tell these stories, people like you, they say that 65% of information is remembered when it's tied to a story versus just 5% when it's tied to facts. So if it's all tactics and facts, like it's all going to come in in one year, out the other, versus you tell this story about specific result, boom, people, it like it resonates with them. So then I think if you like this or like that's the vibe, then here's the next step. And it almost looks like we're just moving along this continuum. It's not like a big deal. It shouldn't be like a huge thing or that you have to overcome. It's like, okay, here's what I just taught you. That's the blueprint. Now we're going to go to the implementation for. And I think that people need to narrow the audience here. And I think this is where people get into like tactics of countdowns and scarcity and all this. And a lot of it seems fake. But if the scarcity is real, then I found it to be one of the most powerful things to moving forward. If the time deadline is real now, if it's fake, it blows up in your face because then people don't trust you.

I will say there's a difference between it being fake and you manufacturing it.

That's true.

Like we could manufacture scarcity by just choosing a date on the calendar where you fulfill on this next step. Yeah, you know, like maybe it's the discovery calls. It's like, dude, I don't do these next step, I don't do these calls any other day. There's the deadline, there's the like there's scarcity or you know.

Yeah. So it's like, oh, how many people could you serve on Thursday if you wanted to do these calls and you wanted to be it, you're full energy and really pour into people. Maybe four. Okay, you have four slots on Thursday.

Boom.

That's real. Skip, you're not bullshitting, it's just totally true. So come up with a true, you know, limit to what you're offering because if it's for everyone, it's for no one. Y and so there's a number of there now you can give people bonuses. Like that's more tactical. But we can get into like, hey, if you take action today, you get this thing or you get this additional service or if it was in real estate, maybe you get a credit towards your purchase. For the people that take action today, you get this. So that will get people who are just on the fence to make the, make the next step. It sounds transactional, but it works. So that would be the next steps. And then now the fortune is going to be in the follow up. There's going to be people who were not quite there that could have moved forward. Maybe you follow up in other ways afterwards. So there's going to be. If you do this correctly, you will get people to take the next step with you. But then there's even more people who are almost there.

Yeah.

So what would be your advice to those people who like didn't buy?

I mean the reality is no one's, not everyone is supposed to buy ever. Right. So like even in your, your conversion event forward every summer.

Yep.

Bro. If all 1,000, you would literally have to jump off a cliff.

We couldn't serve him.

Yeah, you couldn't serve him. So like that's also a level of manufactured scarcity. It's like I. We only have room for this.

Yeah. We like, we have a vision for what this next group would be like.

Yeah.

And these are the types of rooms and type events I can serve. And it gets above a certain amount. It doesn't work.

Right.

So that's the limit.

What I'm getting at is what you need to know is when you really pour out and you serve people in this way, it didn't end there. It started something. The Bible says, you know, some plant, others water, but God makes it grow. Dude, if you just focus on sowing good seed.

Yeah.

And let, let the. This is what I love about is. It's what I love about the it being a numbers game because nuance, you don't, you don't know that like three weeks from now this person that was on your presentation got a crazy bonus. And because they were on your presentation, they weren't ready. But because something that happened in their life that you couldn't control, now they can do it. Now they can do it. So that helps you like even serve. Even better. Because it's like, I know. Just know it. Not everyone's going to take the next step to begin with.

That's okay.

And that's okay.

And it shouldn't be weird either. Like they see you after and it's fine.

Yeah. That's why I love following Daniel G. Because he's really good at these, like, follow up things. Like, hey, like, hey, I know you know, Thanksgiving is coming up and I'm just thinking about all the people and I just want to say thank you for hopping on that call, dude. I was very nervous when I presented it, but I hope that call served you. Yeah, dude, a friend of mine texted me. He said, hey, I don't have much work going on. Do you guys need anything at your studio or your house? Done. I wasn't thinking about it, but now that you ask me, we do want stuff done at our house.

Yeah.

And he gave us the quote. I was like, I did not plan on spending this much money before the end of the year on our house. But because you followed up.

Yes.

Yeah.

Follow up fortunes in the follow up.

Dude, your follow up games a week, bro.

No, I'm just kidding. 1,000%. Yeah. Everybody's follow up game is weak, honestly. But now you know, because you have the signal. Yeah. That they're interested. They wouldn't have been on the call if they weren't interested. So a lot of times people don't want to call people because they feel like they're bothering them. They're afraid of rejection. They're not going to reject you. They showed up if they stuck around to the end. So that's where the data counts. Like, look at the people. And you can pull this up on Zoom or anything that you use. Look at the people who were there towards the end. Dude, those are great leads. Do we need your best leads?

We need to look at when people leave the call.

Yes.

Because then probably need to throw a slide in or like cut a slide out.

That's a good point. You can look at when people are leaving your presentation.

Right.

But then, yeah, if you, if you saw these people stayed till the end because it tells you that those would be the first people who. Who should get that text on Thanksgiving or when something has changed. Daniel G says yo. He. He says, here's a format for sending out a text. Like, he'll be like, yo, two things have changed. Like, there's something new for you now. Again, the new like two, Hey, I want to get back on the call because two things have changed. I wanted to let you know about this. And then people are like, they're right back in the conversation. Maybe something changed on their part too. To your point. So I think just make sure that the thing is valuable. Don't worry if what your conversion rate is at this point, it's just to get started. But if you do the things we're talking about, you're going to get more people to take the next step.

If you do the things we're talking about, every no is a not yet.

Yeah. Like you're still in the not yet.

Yes.

So you're not going back to no, no, no.

Right.

The no, no is the last part of that continuum. So this would be, I guess, the, the. The ecosystem content, just to get people into your process, then conversion event, then your service. So right now, people have content. Whatever it is I sell, I'm asking you to just insert one little thing in the middle there. And that thing will move people between the two. It'll move people along this. And if you do that, I think your, your content will serve a purpose now, because now you won't be selling your service, you'll be selling this conversion event.

Bang.

That's the difference. And so I think the, the, the big shift for me is making the content just a micro conversion, not trying to do too much with one single piece of content because it's not possible. You can get lucky, but it's not possible overall, like, in the long run.

Fire.

That's it. That's the pod. Guys, I'm just gonna do the thought which. How should we wrap up?

No, the thought about this packaging is you're selling the wrong thing.

Yeah. Or I was stuck because I was selling the wrong thing.

Yeah, well. Or like that's everyone selling the wrong thing. You're saying, sell this instead.

Yeah.

So when you, when you hook, when you do the intro, I think it's something along those lines.

Yeah.

Because if you have a business but you're not happy, it's because you're selling the wrong thing.

That's it. Yeah.

I'm going to show you in this conversation or this part or this video what to sell instead of what you're selling so that you could sell more of what you want to sell.

Yeah, the wrong thing. The right thing.

The right thing. Yeah. I mean, that you're giving a product like this is just a framing thing. Like you're, you're giving a product for every entrepreneur to sell with this conversation.

Yeah.

You know, because the product is a conversion event, you know, like.

And then they can design that to whatever it is. Because you could not even have an offer. Yeah. But if you do a conversion about, you can make the offer. That's what I did the first with the big forward event. It was like, look, we just did the event and I thought the event purpose was to build my brand. But then at the event, somebody's like, hey, you don't sell anything here. You're dumb. So then I came up with an offer to sell at the event.

It's crazy.

They did it backwards, but so I me, let me just send this to wrap up. Thanks for being on the show, bro. And then if you guys have questions, just drop them in the comments. In terms of, like, what were the things that you want us to go deeper on in a future, future episode? Should we even have Omar back on these conversations? Let me let them know if you like them, because then you'll come back on and I will see you guys on the next show.