Ep 68 The Signal Beneath the Distortion A Conversation with PaulAbram

Welcome to Remembering the Forgotten, a space where leaders think out loud without polish or performance. No scripts, no performance, just 2 people thinking out loud. These conversations aren't about delivering insight. They are about thinking together in real time. Because there are moments where you can feel that the answer is already there, but you can't quite reach it. And then something shifts, and suddenly it's simple. Not new, just clear. And that's this space. There's a point where trying harder stops working. More information, more insight, more effort, and yet something still doesn't shift. Today, I'm joined by Paul Abram. Paul Abram's journey has taken him from military service through serious injury, recovery, and profound personal transformation into years of exploring the relationship between stress, the body, consciousness, and human well-being. Along the way, he discovered something that challenges many conventional approaches to change. People are often not struggling because they lack knowledge. They're struggling because their system has adapted to pressures that were never fully resolved. Over time, those adaptations become tension patterns, protective responses, ways of moving, breathing, thinking, and experiencing life that eventually begin to feel normal until one day they don't. Today, Paul Abram helps people understand and unwind those patterns through a deeply integrative approach that bridges body, mind, and lived experience. Because eventually a fascinating question emerges. What if the thing holding us back is not a lack of capability, but a system that has been carrying too much for too long? And what becomes possible when that burden finally begins to release. That's where today's conversation begins. With that, welcome, Paul Abram, to the show.

Hi, Markus. Thank you for having me. What a wonderful introduction. Very nice. Um, I feel very honored. Um, I think one of the things that, that hits people is When we say movement is life, there's, there's a deeper aspect to that that's, that's not, not really kind of considered first of all. And that is that it's not that moving is what living things do, it's that living things are movement. Living— so life is movement. Living things don't move. It's not that at all. So it's subtle. But it's the— from my thesis and how I understand reality from my own journeys, that is— it's the continuous reperturbation of a field, which if it wasn't perturbed in this way would just be undifferentiated potential. So life exists as field harmonics and dynamics, and those perturbations appear as a you and a me and a screen and, and a sound and a color and all these beautiful things. And when that field, when that perturbation ceases, so we could, we would call that death as a pattern. So when that pattern ceases, it goes back to the undifferentiated potential, which is the vacuum, so-called, of space. And this vacuum of space is, is mirrored in the fascia in the body. It's the same thing. It's the same phenomena, but just at different scales. So space is this vacuum which is full of incredible potential.

Yeah.

And then that is exactly mirrored in the fascia. And it is there in the fascia that this dielectric field, this primary organizing principle of biological— what would you call it? I can't— well, it's biological embodiment. So consciousness is biologically embodied into fascia, which is primary. And so water is a state of fascia. Mm-hmm. It's— and so everything is a state of fascia in that sense. So the field is primary. And then what we consider to be mechanical expressions are appearances of that field perturbation. So I'll probably try not to get into too much technical detail because it thrills me. But, um,

no, I love it because that shows your passion.

Yeah.

Because, you know, what really, what really hooked me was when you said on our first call, Polyabrium, that it wasn't breath that came first, it was movement.

Movement. Yeah.

And I recall I was sitting here for a moment like, what is he talking about?

I think I remember the space.

Right, it's breath and then the crying.

Yeah.

But he said, no, no,

no, no,

no, no, first came movement.

Yeah. And I remember, I think I heard Gary Linehan say it in something and it registered. but it didn't drop. And then a little while later, it dropped. And I have these things at, you know, 2, 3 o'clock in the morning when I'm not sleeping. And it dropped at sort of 2 o'clock in the morning. And I sat upright in bed, I was just like, of course, before the first breath. And you realize when you trace that back. And then as I began to look into that and create an understanding of it, you go back to the zygote, you go back to conception, tracing life to its start. Where, where, where, where does it start? And then you realize that as cells— well, they don't divide, do they? They replicate. Because if they were to divide, they'd get smaller. So they replicate. And once we've got 4 cells, they then form this spiral pattern, just in the same way that a seed, when we speed it up in, in the, uh, time lapse, you see it searching for the sun. Well, it's the same with the fascia, and it spirals and it grows, and then it forms, and then we get a heart. And out of that, We get this. I know. And so we—

amazing.

Yeah. Somebody asked me the other day, why do we only do this, this palate sweep thing? Why do we only do that on one side? And I said, because the body has grown in a spiral and the first attachment is on the right-hand side of the head. Oh. And then I showed them some pictures and they were like, that's incredible. And I explained the same thing. I said, yeah, we're doing this. And it's magical when you get this view of we're spiraling towards life, towards the sun, towards the Father, towards heaven, whatever it is. So yeah.

That's incredible. So wow. So before we really begin, I have a question for you.

Yeah.

Where can you just be yourself? Untouched by expectation or performance?

Well, I mean, you know the answer, Markus. Here and now. Because what are you if you are not here and now? And I don't mean that you are in the here and now. I mean you are the here and now. Because you can't, you can't prove to me a beginning to here or an end to it, a midpoint. You can't prove a beginning to this now or an end to that. So if we're truly embodying, truly embodying this energetic expression of life, we would have to say that we are all of that eternally and infinitely. So whatever turns up, even if it appears to be inauthentic or fake, is here. It is now, and it's untouched by anything, because what can touch something that is eternal and infinite? So you can be, and you are already, everything that you're— that you are expected to be in this moment, even if those expectations aren't anything like they were a second ago.

You can tell I'm not really puzzled.

No.

I'm thoughtful.

Yes.

Because there is a theory which I'd like to test with you.

Yeah.

Let's start with an assumption, and then let's go into testing the theory.

Yeah.

Is the key to being yourself, untouched by expectation or performance, to be in the here and now?

The answer to that is, where else can you be? You have absolutely no choice in being here and now. The only thing that, that changes that as a real lived experience, and it is real and lived for the individual, is that they don't believe it, or they're in their mind, Thinking something else. So the the quickest way to recognize it is to become present as a feeling experience in the body, and once you're present to something in the body, it's very difficult to say that you're not here and now.

Love that, and honestly, I've never been looking at it like this, but it makes so much sense. So if somebody believes that they are living in the past.

Yeah.

It's all feeling and thought.

Yeah.

If they're afraid of the future, it's all feeling and thought.

Yeah.

But being is only possible here and now.

Yeah. So the— what you would say is that this expression that we have right now, if you— so for me, I'm hearing the words coming out of my voice or out of this voice box. So I'm hearing those at the same time that they're being spoken.

Yeah.

So there's, there's no, um, there's no presentience to it. There's no forethought to it. If I was to spend my time in thoughts, the field— so this field is the perturbation that's going on, we could say— is intensely local to me. So it, it's not affected by anybody else. It's, um, it's effectively a, a loop. It's like the Ouroboros chasing its tail. Mm-hmm. It, it, you have to get to the end of the tail, bite it, and realize that was you to, to come back into presence. And, and it's not that you're out of presence, but that's the experience, like you're not here. Um, you've probably had moments when driving a vehicle and you suddenly think, oh wow, where was I for the last few minutes? I kind of got here out of nowhere. Well, the question then is, well, where were you? You were still here and now, but your experience was, it was of another universe which was being created in your own mind.

So why do you think society makes our life so complicated instead of understanding if we are actually in the here and now? that is where we are. And everything is basically an illusion.

Yeah, I mean, like an illusion until it's still a real illusion. You know, it's still a real illusion. It's still, there's still an experience of it. Society, societies, or systems and societies, they all rise and they all fall. And I think there's just this cyclical aspect to it. And in one way, it's the, it's the pure projection of the microcosm into the macrocosm. So whatever is happening in the individual being in terms of their subconscious desires, their hurts, their trauma, this is, this is expressed externally for others to see. That's kind of how it goes. Um, I mean, take, take for instance the idea that there was a great flood. Which most religions and most stories will agree there was a great flood. So if we consider that the human being stores trauma, and that we can say, yeah, we've got experience of many people that have stored trauma, well, surely then the human as a construct, all of humanity, has the stored trauma of, of the, the flood. So humanity In one way is waking up to its PTSD of having basically survived a cataclysm. And we're going through this phase right now of that trauma bubbling to the surface. And you can't ignore it because it's right in front of your face within the systems and the power, disproportionate power play that is going on in front of us. And that's a natural response to trauma. So when we zoom out of the human experience and look at the whole of humanity as an experience, it becomes easier to see that we're actually going through, um, not birthing pains, but we're going through this dramatic awakening to something that we know nothing about and into something that seems incredibly expansive and amazing and challenging and full of opportunities. Um, or you could look at it another way and say, oh my God, what is going to happen tomorrow? Because are we going to run out of diesel across the world? I mean, uh, will everything grind to a halt? Or what are— what's good? You know, we could really go, um, down that route. But it's a field perturbation. So intention is, is perturbating the field as it already is and changing it into what we want. So if we sit in fear, worried about the future, we're going to create and manifest that future. That's an absolute certainty because that's how the field works.

It's interesting. So I believe for anyone listening or watching, they probably have one question right now.

Yeah.

I don't assume Paul Abram was born with that knowledge or wisdom or beliefs even. Can you just tell us a little bit how you got where you are.

Yeah, it's, um, so early childhood trauma forces the brain to develop in certain ways. And when the— because we're not a— you— we're not a simple energetic organism that, that's held within a body. It's, it's also external. Um, if, if you have to become hyper-aware of the threats around you, you develop the skill of getting out of this body and into that field. So I developed that skill very early on out of, out of pure protection. By the age of 14, I was my— individually, I was both my mum's and my dad's counsellor. So my dad would keep his conscience with me and keep— I would keep his secrets. And my mum would do the same. And she would often say to me, look, take the day off school, I'm going to take the day off work, and we can chat and listen to some music and So I had a very different relationship with my parents and very early on became this counselor. And then through life, through various things, it seemed to be that people always came to me. They just came to me and they said, oh, can you— and I had a way of grounding people. I didn't understand it. I was deeply traumatized until about 28. I couldn't speak about my father without crying and sort of falling to pieces. And I went through one or two significant shifts. The first, I guess, at 28, yeah, 28 and a half, when the universe conspired to make me do something. And it was like I was in a game. And it just, just kept pressing the button and going, nope, you're going to do that again. Nope. And it happened 7 times in the space of about an hour. And it took me a year to understand what had happened. And it was jaw-dropping after that year to see. It was, it was literally that the universe spun on my every move in that moment. That was the experience. And from that moment on, and that was a way of trying not to be— trying to overcome some trauma that I hadn't understood. And it came to me with an apology out of nowhere and unexpected, and it shifted my whole being. And from that moment, There was this insatiable kind of hunger towards understanding what was going on in people's hearts and in their minds. Not so much the body. I hadn't got into that. It took years before I was really concerned about the body. But understanding somebody at the energetic level, and I was doing it without knowing it. I would have had precognition, precognizance. I had the ability to answer a question. in a room of, say, 300 people, I would be the first to know that question. But it overwhelmed me. It was, it was so intense. And I was feeling so much pain from other people that my own body just, just couldn't handle it. And I was in my early 40s when that, that kind of identity collapsed with the attempt of suicide 3 times, and an epiphany on the final one, which then set me on this, this course, which was to realize that there is— that life is inescapable. Um, that, as we said, this is effortlessly here and now, and there's no choice in being here. You cannot escape this moment. And I've had moments— I could tell you so many different stories, but I'll give you one. I was lying in bed one night, and I taught myself to, um, meditate on my, on my back flat because I couldn't sit up straight because of my spinal problems. So I was lying in bed, and I started to hear myself snoring. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I started to check through the body. And the pulse was really beautifully low. And I was kind of just going through the body. And it was like, wow, this body's fast asleep. And then of course, I was going, well, if the body's fast asleep, who's, who's the one watching it? Who's, you know, and so I spent the whole night in this, in this process. process of being aware of the body sleeping and then being aware of the mind only and nobody. And, um, I woke and I suddenly realized as I woke that I hadn't been asleep ever, that I'd always been aware. And it, it kind of knocks the wind out of you to realize that you, you, you've always been this thing called awareness. There's never been a moment of sleep. Um, and then there were other moments of where just walking down the street and suddenly, suddenly realized that I was the whole of existence, and, and then snap back into the body and the body goes, no, I don't want to be the whole of existence. So flip-flopping between the two sides of this, of this coin. On the one side, I'm everything, and on the other side, I'm nothing. So I did that for about 10 years. Um, And along the way, you can't do anything but collect little pieces of the, of the puzzle of infinity. So there's no way anyone can ever explain infinity. It's that simple. No one can ever explain unconditioned love because it's infinite and eternal. But you can get snippets of it. And I've met many, many people along the way that have, um, gone on this journey, then come back and thought they'd had those— that puzzle solved, and they go down that route. And some years later, they're either really, really ill, or they maybe pass from cancer, or they have a scandal or something. But they— we can't ever know the answer to the question, what is, what is there? But you can answer the question for yourself by saying, well, I'm here, and I'm now, and I know that. And outside of that, it's probably hyperbole. So. Yeah,

so I recall you told me that you met Gary Linham and that was quite life-changing. Is that correct?

It's not. I didn't physically meet him. It was the, um, it was seeing something on the— yeah, it popped up on one of the things. I was just, what's this fascia business? And then he'd said a couple of things and I knew immediately that he's had I knew that he'd, he'd got experiences that he couldn't share. So for instance, I can, I can, I can see somebody's field, I can read their field. If we're aligned, then I'll know before the person says something what they're going to say. And it's, it's quite an intense experience. Um, and so I, I recognize this, I was thinking, right, this is interesting. And then there's some, some parallels in the story because he's about the same kind of age as, as this body is. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's like, well, for the last 12 years I've not put a chemical on my skin. I clean with vinegar and bicarbonate soda. I don't brush my teeth with anything, you know, no soap. It's like I make my own washing laundry detergent and, you know, all these things. And it's like, yeah, I've lived this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand. I know, put a bit of, um, of silica on the ground so that you can get stronger plants, all these things. I just thought Yeah, he's he's he knows something of this. And then when I started to realize that there was a lot more going on with what he was doing, I was thinking, what is this? And I started. I just I woke up one morning. I thought I've had enough. I need to I need to have a look at this. I went on. I signed up for the 28-day program. I think I did the first two days and then I couldn't do it. My spine has six compressed discs and a prolapse above prolapse below. So there's hyperkyphosis. There's no rotation through it. There's there's no thoracic bend and lateral movement. moving. And I was petrified. I've been that way for such a long time and had reduced lung capacity, even though I was in the military. And I was in rehab lots of, lots of times. But I kept going. It took me about 3 months to get through it. And I just kept saying to myself, listen to your body, listen to your body. And then I was stuck, there was some unwinding started to happen. So there was, there was some physical trauma trapped in, in this body, um, that started to release. And it was so unsettling that I began to walk the streets with this impending doom. My heart would become so loud and so obvious. I would become cold and clammy. And it was like, I'm going to die any minute. And so part of the protective mechanism, the, the, the, the sense of self-identity, or the ego— therefore I am— that sense was starting to unravel completely. And it finally unraveled in a night of just intense revelation that I had been hiding behind my, my knowledge. I was literally, well, I know this, and I know the answer to this. And I've been to the other side, and I've come back from— and I know, and I know, and I know, and I know. And even in the gentlest and in the most well-meaning way, there was still a holding and a hiding behind that information. And the hiding was of a very small pre-verbal entity or identity called Paul, who had been very damaged and was terrified. And his damage was that if he got something wrong when he was so small, he would get beaten, or he would get locked in, or whatever. And There was no— so my sense of identity and my sense of self and my sense of fear of death was hiding in getting it wrong. When that was seen, that began to unwind. And I got a good coach. And he pointed some things out. And we only had about 3 hours together. And then it unwound in a night. And it was breathtakingly shocking to see where I'd been hiding. I felt at the time when my mother passed, I found her and I tried to revive her and we weren't successful. But I felt that I'd healed and grieved from that. And a lot of the childish me had grieved. And I felt that it was real. But what I'd done was I was, I was excluding the adult, I was excluding the father, the grandfather, the brother, the cousin, the uncle, I was excluding that one from it. And saying, oh, no, it's okay, because the little boy in me has grieved. And that's fine.

That's all that needs to happen.

And that grief hit me harder than I could ever imagine. And I began to feel in a way, and I'm a feeling, I'm a feeling man. This is what I do. But I'd buried, and it was, and this is the thing, I probably need to step back on that. We don't bury anything, it's trapped inside. Mm-hmm. And it's the collapse of the, of the atom. So effectively, if, if I took all the, all the space out of every atom in your body, you'd be the size of a sugar cube. You'd weigh like half a billion tons and you'd have as much energy as a neutron star. So imagine just collapsing little pieces of you. You get denser, you get heavier, and you slow down. And what had happened with the movement and the spiral and the rotation and the torsion of the fascial maneuvers, this geometry, this sacred geometry, had begun to get its form back. And as it opens up, the event that collapsed it, which has a time, space, and identity marker, that's released, and the brain gets that information. But it gets it as the child or the man or the boy it gets. So it's a complete identity of that moment, like a snapshot. The brain gets that and then tries to translate it into something meaningful. Often it can't do it. So when people release trauma, they sob, or they shake. And, you know, they struggle, because there's no way the brain can process what a 7-year-old or a 2-year-old is thinking. So this happened throughout one night. And when I, when I got up the following day, the, this field known as Paul was completely open, no resistance to life. And 2 days later, I signed up to become a coach. I just said, right, I'm doing this. Because it was the final piece.

Amazing.

It really, I saw how consciousness Um, manifests itself through fascia, and then how the fascia holds life and interacts with life. Everything you do, and the only way it's done, is because of fascia. The nerves are there. Everything comes through this, the primary medium of embodiment. And it's the primary medium of embodiment of infinite and eternal consciousness that wants to experience itself over and over and over again.

It's very fascinating. Thank you for sharing. Oh,

you're welcome.

So I recall, Paul Abram, when I asked you, because my wife confronted me and said she would like to do the 28-day program, the Yagapi Reset, right?

Yeah.

And back then, which was basically a year ago, I said yes. But now I was at the point where I wondered, could it actually do even harm? And you said something beautiful which stayed with me. Even if it's just little increments, it can have huge impacts on my life.

Yes, precisely that.

And that's why I decided to, to really do it with my wife. So I'm very grateful for that.

Oh, you're welcome. Yeah. It's a message that is very difficult to escape for me, because it seems to just come up and over and over and over again in conversation. Someone will say, I just don't know where to start. And I'll say, you just get up and move.

And then

I'll say, and then you just keep moving. And then when you sit and you're looking at yourself, and you're thinking and you're feeling sorry, it's like, just start working on a little bit of fascia and see what releases. Work with the webbing between your fingers. Grab a thumb and rotate it and pull and see where they're— and become Become curious, become so curious about your body. And especially as we're getting older, we lose that sense of wonder and awe in existence. Mm-hmm. We take everything for granted. And what we take for granted is that there are, there are patterns that are locked away and they are collapsed atoms that, that need movement and they need life again. And if we don't move them and if we don't reinvigorate them, then we don't have the energy we think we do. And so movement, not only is it life, but it's also primary. It's before breathing, it's before drinking, it's before eating, before supplementation, before anything else. Move first. Movement changes things.

Incredible. So if you don't mind, share a little bit about how your movement was restricted.

Yeah,

before you started the entire fascia work. And I assume that was when you went and experimented with Human Garage, right?

Yes, yeah.

With Gary's program.

Yeah, so for many years, um, so the— yeah, so hyperkyphosis, so the area from T12, uh, T6 to T12 in the spine crushed, and, um, the, the discs are like bowler hats, so lumps in the middle, thin edges. Uh, the spine doesn't move very much at all within that area. There's a prolapse below that at L1-L2, and then one of the lower cervical discs, which happened about 5, 6 years ago. So pain consistently, discomfort, the inability to laterally move. So dropping down to the left and the right.

Mm-hmm.

Flexion is fine, but extension into spine, poor. And even though I would be able to move, it would— it was moving as a clunk. So there was like an impingement. One area of the spine would move, the other would hinge, which meant that sitting, hamstrings, it meant psoas, knees. I've got no cartilage in the knees, mainly because of being, being in the military. Thumbs and fingers from, from playing rugby, there's no cartilage in the thumbs. Chronically slack joints, an underlying inflammatory disorder. Yeah. Um, and so, and I was— I'm an Aries, I'm, you know, the ram. So I pushed through. And effectively, for many years, I just bullied the body into submission. I used to drink whatever amount of alcohol. It was never— I never woke up in the morning to drink alcohol. But in the evening, when I'd write, I've done, I would sit and I would drink. When I was in my late 20s, with drinking a liter to a liter and a half of vodka a night just to get some rest. Sometimes that would be with a pethidine injection from the, from the doctors as well. I was once— they tried to put me under. I'd been CASEVAC'd out of Sarajevo, taken out on a helicopter on a spine board, and I ended up in this field hospital. And they came along and gave me some tranquilizers. And about 2 hours later, this doctor came in and he said, Did you take those tranquilizers? Of course I did. I don't believe you. I said, I did. I don't believe you. He said, I've never seen anybody that's awake after those tranquilizers. I said, you've never met anybody with a nervous system like mine. And later, probably around the age of 40, when I was in medical rehabilitation, a specialist said to me, where we have one pain receptor or one pain node, he said, what's happened with you is your body isn't satisfied with that one, so it's created more and more and more. And so your whole system is now just pain nodes. And I could, I could take a towel across my back when I'd been showered, and I would go into massive pain and spasms because all the nerves were saying, you're not listening to me, you're not listening to me. And so I continued to try and bully it until I attempted suicide. And then in that moment, it was Wow. Okay. And I started to surrender. And I became a yoga and meditation instructor. I became a teacher of mindfulness meditation. I taught kindergarten yoga. And so I surrendered, I surrendered for many, many years. Some days I would meditate for up to 7 hours a day. And I halted the decompression— sorry, or the compression of the spine. I was told I'd be a hunchback by the time I was 60. I halted that. But it was a, it was an effort. It was a continual battle. Days where I'd lay on the floor with my spine twisted, manipulating something to try and get out of pain. And the last few years have been better, much, much better. Movement was better, and I was healing my knees. But it wasn't going— I knew each, each winter, I knew it wasn't going far enough. It's like I'm still going downhill. And the fascia, when that came along, it was just like, hang on a second, there's something So profound about this, and it was. I am. My nature is that I'm. I have immediate intuition. I don't filter it. There's no guide. There's no vision. It's immediately, and I'll speak what I say because I no longer have fear that what I'm saying can be judged by anybody. Me judging myself, so it doesn't matter. And in those moments, it was like, yeah, you've got to follow this. I didn't expect what happened out of it, but you can imagine living for. So at thirteen, well, eleven, they they thought I'd got something wrong with a spine. Fine. And the doctor said, no, no, no, he's fit and healthy, he's fine. But I was carrying weights on the building yard for my father when I was that age, and it compressed the spine. Um, I wanted to get away that bad that I managed to get into the army when I shouldn't have done. And they passed me physically fit, and I joined at 19. And by 24, that's when my back— that's when the first prolapse happened, and that's when they discovered the problems. And I continued. Um, I mean, I've broken bones and strapped them up and continued to play rugby on them and go climbing on them. And I've, I've performed minor surgery on myself.

Just,

yeah,

crazy.

I could go on and on and on about the things that I've got up to.

I actually would like to dive into one more topic. Sure. Nervous system.

Yeah. So the way we look at the world is that the nervous system conducts And it's not that. We've got to look at it as a field. So the field is perturbed, and it's perturbed and reformed and reshaped by intention. So intention is the strongest force multiplier that there possibly is. So behind every good healer, every good entrepreneur, every good founder, the intention is what creates the space within which we succeed. Mm-hmm. And that's because we are recreating, we are reforming the field of our experience through that intention. It doesn't matter the modality. It really doesn't matter the modality. What I found through fascia is that it's the reconstructing part in between the exercises. That's when I realized what was happening. And that's where I began to recognize that when you have fun in that little moment between doing that reset, you are genuinely restructuring yourself. You are creating perturbations in the field.

It makes sense.

So it's not— I mean, conductivity is an aftereffect of intention.

So that means in the end, if we look at the human garage thing, so the movements and the maneuver themselves are basically means to an end, and the means to an end Is what you experience and can giggle about, because that's when the change takes place.

Yeah, yeah. It's like you still have to wait for the physical to manifest and recognize it. So spending so many years in, in this sense of surrender, um, I, I stayed at home. I— my wife and I split up. I had the girls, so I was the permanent carer for them. So I homeschooled them. We did everything together. So I've had that life already that most people want, which is to spend time with their children. I've done that. And it's been amazing. And now they're at an age where they don't need me so much. And it's like, I can finally give something else out there, I can put something else out in the world. And I can, I can perturb this field and reperturb it in a way that I now enjoy, which is this conversation, what I'm doing. Everything now is just about enjoyment. But you still have to— I still have to get up in the morning. I will come in this little studio of mine. And I might be in here between 5 and 6. I do something for myself. And then I have a I teach a lesson from 7 till 7:30, and then another lesson at 7:30 onwards. And that— I give those because I've got to do it for me, so I may as well record it and teach it. And I'm a monotropic and protegeic learner, so I learn through teaching as a hyperfocus. So you have a back and a pain and a body problem, so it's— well, the resolution is to work and teach and hyperfocus on the body in the best way possible, which lights up my energy system, which means I now have so much more power to get intention into the place that I want it to be and have beautiful— yeah.

So this makes me curious.

Yeah.

When you teach, do you teach what you have learned, or do you learn while you teach?

I am teaching my experience in that moment. And I recognize that when I'm doing it, often the experience I have in my body is the experience somebody in front of me is having. So I'll be in a certain position. And I'll, and I'll say, okay, so gently holding the arms, and we breathe in, and then I'm holding breath. And I'll go, right, my shoulders are high, relax the shoulders down. my chin's out a little bit, pull the chin in, then I feel my spine straighten, I feel everything line up and go, and I go, that's right. And, and what the feedback I get is, oh, we love it when you, you feed that back to us. So as a trained hypnotherapist, one of the skills of hypnotherapy is the rapport that you get with the individual. So recognizing energetically, and then there's body language to follow. But it's recognizing where the individual is in their inner journey, in their inner world, which is the secret to being a good hypnotherapist. Because for instance, if I suggest that you're feeling relaxed and you're having a really relaxing great time and you're not, that's the end of that. Nothing

works.

And so it's interesting that I've recognized that's carried on into the teaching of the physical realm, which is I can feed that back and the majority of people are having at least one of the experiences that I describe within the 30 seconds of this move, which means everybody can, can align with me, and they— and we have the rapport that they, that they need to develop the skill in their own body to then have the transformation that they need and that they want. And I mean, it's so rewarding.

And it is totally fascinating if you think about— we are basically all mirror images of the universe, right?

Yeah.

So why wouldn't it be That if you sense that something is going on in the room, whatever the room is, right, can be international, online, and you actually do the movement, that it literally does something to the person.

Yes.

That is right now suffering from it.

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

That's incredible.

And this is one of the reasons that we always, we sync up together and that we Especially if we're going to have a meeting where we sync up together with movement. I like this particular one, which is to have a twisty maneuver into the center of the chest and then to open the throat. So once you stretch this kinetic line between the center of the chest and the throat, pulling the shoulders back, opening your chest, you get this real feeling of openness and connectedness to within the chest. And you can't, you can't hide the fact that it's close to your heart. So you suddenly feel like you're speaking very authentically, and you then realize that you are speaking very authentically because you are connected through this fascia and through the beautiful nerves that you're getting from it. And the brain lights up at the very fact that it's now communicating with the heart, because obviously 95% of the, the, the signals coming out of the stomach and through the, the vagus nerve are afferent signals. So They're going one way. So by the voice being connected and the heartbeat, and you're aligned in a way that just feels beautiful. And it's not woo, that's the thing. I mean, people have been saying I'm exceptionally grounding. You ground people, you hold the space. And then eventually I wore the name and just said, well, okay, I'll be the Grounded Man, you know. But it's more—

it came to happen.

Yeah. But it's more like being It's more about embodiment because the reality is that the ground that we're talking about is a field perturbation which is coming from the intention of the universe to experience itself. So we can't ground anything out, but what we can do is we can embody more of the presence of ourselves and be more aware of who we are in this moment as the now and as the here.

You know what's really interesting? Um, the, the posture you just showed, I don't think I've shared that with But I'm a classically trained singer.

Oh, right.

So for me, this is natural.

Yeah,

I immediately related to it.

Yeah,

right now I'm sitting a little bit too comfortable to really move.

Yeah,

but singing, that's exactly the posture.

Yeah, yeah,

shoulders back, chest open, heart open.

Yeah.

And I believe, if I'm actually thinking about What is your take on that? I believe this could actually have helped me dealing with my own trauma.

Definitely.

The singing?

Yeah.

I always felt it was a gate. Always felt it was a gate. And I thought I was able to communicate with people through my thought. And my feelings, totally void of what I was singing.

Mm-hmm. Isn't

that incredible?

It is. You know, just, um, opening the chest, pulling the shoulders back, and standing up in that beautiful open stance— I think, I think it's only 10 minutes, or it doesn't have to be much, but you increase testosterone production by about 19%.

Really? That's amazing. Just by opening up.

Just by opening up and allowing everything to move. And because we sit and we hold and the temperature—

Yeah, usually this is like the posture most people have, right? It just begins to hurt my shoulder automatically. Even if I slouch, which I am right now, I'm sitting pretty upright. So—

But even

that would be so fascinating.

The hands, when we walk, the palms should be in front of us. They shouldn't be around the back because we have literally rotated the shoulders round because we don't, we don't, we don't do half as much as we're designed to be able to do.

Yeah, it makes sense.

Yeah.

So definitely checking out Human Garage, I believe, is an advice for everyone to do, right?

Yeah. I mean, you could easily say that I'm biased by this, but I Hopefully the listeners have heard enough of the story to, to recognize the impact it actually made on my life. It's— I've written books about consciousness and, and clarity and, and this, and, and all of those were absolutely true, but hidden away in there was still trauma. And, you know, getting that, releasing that, bringing that geometry back to life and feeling the, the natural flow That's why I'm sat here, because that happened. That's why we're having this conversation.

And you know what's so, so interesting? I don't want to open a new, a new gateway, but so many illnesses are stored in the fascia.

Yeah, totally.

If you think about it.

Oh yeah,

we spoke about fibromyalgia, remember?

Yeah.

Like a family member of mine is suffering from it for, I don't know, 40 years. And I always said, I don't believe fibromyalgia is something— yes, it's caused quite often by trauma, but it's not here to stay forever.

No.

I don't think it's needed.

No, no, it's communication. That's all. All.

That is so fascinating.

Everything that we consider to be ill health, and disease is communication. The field is incoherent. When the field is coherent, it flows, it's open, it is the form that it's expecting to be. But when it's incoherent, it's the reduction of movement, it's the reduction of water, and it's the dehydration of all of these things. In a lot of ways, they're inconsequential when you step back into the field and see it from the dielectric, when you go, wait a minute, this is about movement. That's what we're talking about. You can point to anybody with with any of those kind of so-called autoimmune disorders, and you can say they're not moving. They are not moving. I've I've had I've had somebody with not motor neurons MS. I had I had a client with MS whose feet were clawed. The toes had gone underneath, and she had sticks to walk with. And the second, and this was before getting into the fascia, so you can see how important it was. I managed to get her to walk heel to toe within two weeks, and in the third week I managed to get her to jump. And and that was through voice and through energy healing. And now I understand how the fascia works and how to transmit through that as well. It's it's another level. So yes, my answer is everybody would benefit from this because it's not exercise. It's, it's gentle movement. It's the stretching and coming to know this, this supporting organ in a way that brings you back into safety. And the twisting and the rotating, they all mirror the way we develop in the embryo. We're going back into the fetal experience. We come into safety. So we, we're in protection now, guarding, holding. And we go into presence. And, and that's the beauty of it. So how do we become more present? We become more present by knowing the body more and releasing what's stored in it. And, and through that journey, it's always an intimate, personal journey. That's what we're here for. Through that journey, we literally do move out of protection and into presence, which is the expanded state of the universe knowing itself.

It's incredible. And that so fits with the title of the show, Remembering the Forgotten.

Yes, it does. Yeah. Yeah.

Because that's what it is.

It is.

We forgot.

Yep. This is old knowledge, without a doubt. Yeah.

Wow. So before we come to the last question, what is something you want the viewer or the listener to remember When they go through quite some dire times we're in right now?

What would I like them to remember? You know, it doesn't matter how difficult life gets. There's always a sense that you're aware of it. And in that awareness, There is a moment in which you can, you can move into a different state. You can, you can recognize that what's happening is, is an experience that has a choice with it. It doesn't feel like it, and I know that from personal experience, but there is always a moment when you're, when you can suddenly recognize you're aware. And if you're aware, then you can ask that question, well, what am I that is aware? And, um, see where that goes.

And Steve, that is Steve, brother.

I couldn't go anywhere else, I'm afraid.

Wow, I don't think you have to go anywhere else. And I'll definitely take this as the last question. So with that, thank you so much, Polygram, for having been my guest. It's been a great pleasure.

You're welcome, Markus. I've loved it.

This was remembering the forgotten. As you move on, notice what may have been quietly remembered. There are moments where you can feel the answer is already there, but you can't quite reach it. And then something shifts, and suddenly it's simple. No force, no second-guessing. No internal negotiation, just a clear sense of what's next and the capacity to move. If something shifted, let it stay. A few quiet pointers are waiting below.