GRDC in Conversation: Ben Taylor

Ben Taylor, thank you for having us out here for GRDC and conversations.

I'm looking forward.

I think we're going to cover a few different areas and if we can we'll just, just completely regurgitate. The farm tour we just did would be perfect. Mate, welcome.

Thank you Ollie. I'll do my best to remember what I just said.

Mate, can you just share with us, whereabouts are we. I know we need Condamine but that's about as far as my geography goes.

Where on the Western Darling Downs just south of Condamine on my family's broad acre farming land.

How long have you guys been farming out here for?

Dad and his family were here in 1974 and then my mother and father took over from the family business in 1994 and my wife and my younger brother Sam, wife Kate, we recently took over the farming family business in 2021 I think successfully transitioned from one generation to the next.

Rotting the best year that you guys ever had apparently.

Yeah, it was a good year. Yeah, I think it was probably coming off the back of a nasty couple of years but it was 2021 was a year to remember, that's for sure.

Can you tell us a little bit about what you guys are running here? How like how do your rotations work and what's the focuses for your business?

Yeah, so we grow wheat, chickpeas, sorghum and sometimes cotton. Mostly irrigated cotton. We have a small amount of irrigation here, about 250 hectares of flood irrigation dad developed in the year 2000 purely to flood proof our very flat melon hole, Gilgai lion country, whatever you want to call it. So operate under a really strict five year cropping rotation being wheat, chickpea wheat, long fallow sorghum. And when the opportunity presents itself we double crop back into chickpeas and then get again into our wheat, chickpea wheat cycle. That's a huge part of what I believe sees us as a successful family business is that really structured cropping program.

You've used an analogy there which I think would probably be quite foreign to a lot of people but flood proof rather than drought proof.

Yeah. So our dry land country gets heavily affected from the summer storm events that we receive up here and in the north. And whether that be a 50 mil fall in 20 minutes or a 6 or 7 inch event in, you know, over a matter of three or four days, we, we certainly get affected by water lying on our dryland country. And so that can really affect management. It comes down to management issues whether it be a Spray application or it might come at planting time, it might come just after planting, it might come just before harvest, it might come at harvest. And so we needed to be able to drain our relatively flat soils. So yeah, we've had a heavy leveling program here that's been going on for nearly 20 years to help minimize those issues. And it started with my dad deciding that we needed to build the ring tank for the water to be stored in rather than letting it escape the farm. It made sense to him to, to keep it on the farm and value add really.

So yeah, and how's that, I guess that ability to be able to keep the water on farm, how's that assisted you guys and how's it maybe changed the way that you've approached your farming.

Since it hasn't affected what we do in our broad acre scenario? Like I said, I made the comment there before about evaluating. So we certainly don't call ourselves irrigators, but how it affects our business is it's pretty obvious and evident to the cash flow when we all of a sudden have a full ring tank and, and grow a large, you know, 150, 200 hectares of irrigated cotton. It has a huge benefit to the cash flow, there's no doubt about that. And, but I suppose more to the point, interestingly you bring that up because there's no doubt that we've benefited financially and profitably by being able to remove the water off areas that would create trouble in our dry land country. So we can lose anywhere. You know, we've got paddocks that are 200, 220 hectares large, that we would lose half that area if we didn't have the drainage system and the irrigation ring tank to pump that water into. So it's hard to quantify and measure exactly what that's meant for our business. But it's certainly, certainly been a big.

Game changer for us and that initial investment for you guys to actually. Yeah, build the ring tank, build the drains, flatten the country. It must have been a fairly costly but also really time consuming project.

Yeah, the initial decision for dad to build a ring tank in the year 2000 was, you know, a million dollars is a lot of money. Now A million dollars was a hell of a lot of money to him then. That's basically what it cost us. And I wouldn't like to be doing the same project now time consuming the leveling side of things like the. Once we invested in our own bucket and went GPS leveling. Yeah, that's a, that's a lifetime project that's, you know, we've been doing that for 18 years or so now. We just recently purchased a new property and the old bucket has had the cobwebs washed off it and bought out again. And it's very busy again now. And we revisit. We've revisited some paddocks, as we discussed with you in the car, we've revisited some paddocks. Whether melonholes or Gilgai country, you know, raises its ugly head again and we just choose the right opportunities to do that. We certainly don't do that on the wet years. 2019 was a classic example of when we started re leveling some country. And yeah, it's a long play to invest in the business, I guess, that.

Approach in those dry years to capitalise on something like that, whether it's, yeah, improving, I guess, greenfields, or actually going back to some of the country you guys have done before. Is that another way that you can keep and retain your staff during that?

Yeah, absolutely. It's a big part of that. Like, you know, obviously people are fearful in dry times of what to do with their staff and admittedly in 2019, we didn't have a lot of staff then. It was really very much my brother and I and my dad and my mum. But we've since expanded and put on more staff. So to be able to keep. As we all know, it's hard to keep good staff. So with the addition of excavators and graders and grader boards and GPS leveling buckets, it's certainly a way to keep good staff and keep them busy. Yes, they obviously diesel and time and staff cost you money in lean years, but our view is when you play the long game, it certainly pays off for when the good years eventuate again and capitalise on that.

Do you look at like year to year or do you, when you're making these decisions actually start to go, well, how's this impacted over five years?

Yeah, I think decisions like that definitely have to be made looking in the long, long term, Ollie. So, you know, a big capital investment. We're currently considering expansion of the irrigation. That's a difficult one for us, being an overland flow system and. And it's a decision that we haven't made our mind up yet, but we're in that in the here and now. And, you know, it's a classic example of. No, definitely not approaching it from one year at a time. Like, it's definitely a long, long game play. So referring back to my comment about only overland Flow irrigation, that's, that's the complex part is, is in a way it is only looking at those wet years which might only be one wet year. So do you go and invest in 500,000 dol on a pivot and a new pumping system for just one year. But if you actually to go through the process, do the numbers, see what the return is on a cotton crop? You know we sort of grow irrigated cotton, probably 2 and 5. So can we make that return on investment? I believe we can. Have we made the decision? Not yet. We haven't bitten the bullet yet. So yeah, definitely got to look a long way down the track.

Not year to year and going a bit more heavily into irrigation. How much do you like your summer?

Yeah, well you gotta get the right men around you, don't you? So yeah, there's no doubt that we're actually not missing irrigating this year. We. It's, it is definitely a bit more relaxed around here at the moment. Flood irrigation certainly has its downsides to some fun, there's no doubt about that.

So when you were going through school like did you always want to and see a future in career out here?

I think so, yeah. I was definitely always passionate about farming. I grew up obviously with a farming family. You know it wasn't the easiest of times for my mum and dad and the whole family succession thing but we won't need to delve into that. But obviously I was on that journey with them and mum and dad were fortunate that eventually they did get the property that we currently run and operate now like I said in 1994 and that was right at like. I graduated high school in 1997 so saw some pretty rough ordinary times as a kid growing up with family business and then there was a lot of excitement around the opportunities for us. Mum and dad directly, my brother directly in that night. I graduated in 97 so I couldn't wait to get home. Yeah.

You went away for a little bit though, didn't you? Yes, Brissy and then Canada.

I realized there was more to life than just the farm, Ollie. So I had a year at home and had a great time on the farm and donned the jersey for going to win the emus for a year and met a lot of friends down there. Moved to Brisbane the following year. Tried my hand at a bit of carpentry work and, and career building. Career building, Career building. See if I, if that was my off farm opportunity. But I've quickly realized that I didn't really want to do that and then came back home again for a year. And in that time I believe I went and did a little bit of wheat harvesting with our contracting contractor down to harden Borrower. And then I got enough money to then put away to pay for a plane ticket to go to Canada the following year. Did a rural exchange there.

How good I am. My jackalong year was like right in between Harden Kuttamandrajugio.

There you go.

Yeah.

Goodbye rolling hills. Yeah. Sheep grazies and canola and wheat growers. Absolutely.

Tell me more about Canada because Canada is an interesting place. Like six months of the year. The hell for leather. So six months of the year. They kind of seem to sit inside of it.

They do, yeah. It's.

It's.

Yeah, it's fascinating place. It's beautiful country, obviously. Same, same. A lot of similarities between Australian Australians and Canadians. You know, I was on a wheat barley. They were experimenting with some chickpeas and pulses. So predominantly cropping farm. And in southern Alberta, you know, very similar to us here in Australia that was converting from conventional farming, minimum till farming. Really interesting time. But looking back on it, the one thing that I now realize what the Canadian farmers did far better than any Australian farmer that I ever knew was value. Value their time with family and value their weekend times. And life wasn't all about work. So, you know, it'd be nothing for me to just knock off from the tractor on a Friday afternoon and be demanded not to go back on a Saturday or Sunday. It didn't matter whether it was five acres left in the corner or. Or 500 acres. You just stopped and you went fishing and camping and. And whatever it was that. That kept you busy over there. So they prioritized that. And I now look back on that and see that that's the one point of difference that I think that the Canadians had really. Right.

They had a really interesting. Like it was day length. I reckon it was like seven till nine.

Yeah.

Five days a week. So you got your 14 hours.

Yeah.

Good maths. But yeah, it was like that where it was. I'll say, easy to walk away and do other things.

I think so, yeah. And that's a culture we sort of struggle with in Australia a little bit is to. If you go to the pub, you've got to tell everyone how busy you are. And that's pretty proud moment for you. But I mean, I think we've moved on from that in Australia a little bit, to be honest. So, I mean, I remember a time when I was. It sounds like your family worked a Little bit harder than mine, Ollie. Cause I reckon at my hours were like literally six to six or seven till seven. A lot of daylight in the summertime.

So much daylight.

And if I wasn't, if I wasn't at the dinner table at 7 o', clock I'd be roused on by the. By my host mum. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, she'd, you know, in the canal van, where are you? You should be here at dinner. And so I only did that once and. Yeah, so interesting times. Yeah.

And I remember like. Well especially during harvest, like every night we stopped and sit down on the head of runs and sit around and have dinner together. It was cool.

Yeah, it was. Yeah. No, and supper. Yeah, yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. Like there was. Nine o' clock would be our longest day. We would be knocked off by 9 o' clock and I couldn't believe that like at harvest time it was.

Yeah, it was bizarre.

Bizarre. Yeah, exactly. But anyway, obviously I mean they didn't have to contend with the summer storms and things like that. Like what we do. It's just. It is a different cropping environment but very much a different culture in their farming community. I think.

Yeah, the thing I picked up on when I was there, like I was really interested. So the, the farm I was at, Davidson, Saskatchewan, really heavily into their lentils and that was something which I think had come in, I don't know, say half a decade before but. And if I remember correctly, I think it was like some paddocks were like their third or fourth year back to back lentils and they were going through areas and literally getting zero bushels yield. And we had a really interesting discussion about sustainability. And in my head and Ozzy's head we were like how can you, how's this sustainable growing like this? But they were saying, well in those patches where we're getting the cash that we get for that crop is better than growing anything else. So we can afford to have those.

Yeah, zero bushel areas. Zero bushel areas, yeah. It's really interesting Ollie, because yeah, I can't see how that would be sustainable and we certainly don't operate like that here because they, you know, that just in my opinion creates all sorts of issues doing anything back to back. So I don't know, I can't speak for the Canadian farmers or the American farmers, but there's no doubt that, you know, is it fair to say they, with subsidies and things like that they got life a little bit easier over there. Possibly. So hence why, maybe that's why they thought in that process that was their think mindset possibly. But yeah, I don't think that we can get away with that here in Australia. Not in today's world anyway.

No, the other thing.

Oh.

And then I'll go back to asking you questions. But the one thing which blew my mind over there was the services they got from their machinery dealers and so they operate it. I'll make up numbers here but I reckon it was like 50 grand per header per year and you got 100 rudder hours or something, maybe 200. But when we broke down, you'd literally start driving the header back in towards town and the dealer would be driving another header back out for you.

Yeah, I probably didn't experience that with my family. We had a bit of older gear.

Yeah, right.

But I do know that I mean the Hutterite colonies around most amazing farms I've been on. Incredible. Yeah. And I did was fortunate enough to go on them a couple of times. You could see that clearly happening to those guys.

Yeah.

Massive corporate farmers. Yeah, that's a whole interesting story in the Hutterites. Google it one day people if you want. And modern day Amish really, aren't they? And yeah, all the shiny toys, all the dealers going past all the time close to town. Yeah. Service wasn't an issue. Is that still the case now? I mean this is a long time ago. I was there so I'm not sure but, but yeah, I don't know, we.

Literally cropped around the dealer. So it was, it was pretty handy.

Yeah, very handy. And, and obviously the, the, you know, the, the, the sectors, you know, the half sector, quarter sector, that's all sector.

Yeah.

A lot of traveling up grid pattern. Beautiful formed up gravel roads. Yeah. A lot of travel with gear on roads. So I didn't, it wasn't an issue. You could get away with anything over there. You could take a 60 foot Plexi call straight down the road, no problems at all. Headers back then it was 30 foot headers straight down the road. No problems at all.

Obviously. That work life piece that they got, have you tried to implement that back here at home?

Yeah, only recently. Yeah. Yeah. Since I've got my own family and you know, realized that it didn't have to be the way that it's always been. I suppose I've always been one to challenge the status quo and do I sometimes still get some guilt around time off and time away and the amount of holidays that, that we, that we wish to take now. Yeah, of course. Still a little bit of a Challenge for me, but absolutely, I, I, I've got a young family and I'm lucky enough to have, you know, a family farm that's, that can operate without me. Obviously I'm still important part here, but I like the idea of being able to set the business up so that I don't have to be here all the time and surely I can afford to take my kids for a ski in a mid midweek day or you know, rip, rip down to Tassie. Just being in Tassie for Christmas, visiting family down there and just amazing experience with family and seeing new parts of the world. So yeah, to answer your question, Ollie, absolutely try to implement that here. Now, how do you go?

I'll say as the business owner, manager, doing that, but then also managing your staff as well and I guess one, giving yourself permission but also two, looking at it through a workplace lens as well.

Yeah, absolutely. So I suppose if I want that in my life, it's, it's definitely something that we want also for our staff and it's part of our recruitment process, it's part of our company standards. We make it clear to them that family is important to us, so it can be important to you. I've currently got a worker here now, great young bloke that barely ever went on holidays in his life, let alone get holiday pay. So I've got to say to him, you need to go on holidays and that doesn't mean just sitting in your house. Like it'd be nice for you to go somewhere and by, of course you're getting paid, like you have to remind them of it. It's something that he's never been used to, has never had that happen to him before with his family business. So yeah, we, it's not a mentoring process but just a process that we share together. It's interesting, like he's been here nearly 12 months now. Like he worked all weekends, which was great for the business.

Yeah.

But it's like, and he's now just joined a gun club and he's having weekends off now and you know, that's fantastic. So, yeah, it flows through. It's a cultural thing within our business that we're trying to instill.

Yeah. How do you manage that between like different staff? Are you trying to create like a company policy as such or do you guys manage it really individually at what, different people?

Pretty individually. Because we got two full time staff and ideally three, but we're about to recruit another one. They're both unique individuals with different stories. So we do manage it differently, I think with each staff member. But, you know, at the end of the day, they're entitled to their four weeks annual leave. We don't offer seven weeks annual leave or anything. We're flat out getting these guys to take four weeks.

So.

So we offer them four weeks annual leave. One of them, I'm encouraging to go away, see some sites. The other one, not so much. He's happy staying at home and doing his own thing.

Has that been influenced? I know you've done a little bit of farm. The farm business, Farm Owners Academy. I'll get it right. You've done. Has that influenced some of that thinking as well?

Yeah, definitely. That's had a huge play in. In our thinking and change of mindset there is from the work we've done with farm owners. And it's not rocket science. I mean it's something that's pretty standard in any major law firm, accountant firm, teachers. They get time off. Everyone seems to get time off. But farmers seem to have this story in their head. They're working 24 hours a day, 364 days a year. Other than Christmas, everyone has to have Christmas.

I was gonna say, what about this year? We've got a leap year coming up. It's gonna be an issue.

No?

Yeah.

Oh, the Olympics. We better have some time off to watch that in Paris. Maybe we should just go to Paris.

Well, there we go. Okay.

Start another holiday. Yeah. No, yeah, it's definitely a story in your head. You've got a story in your head and you've got to change it. So. And the world we live in now, people don't want to work all the time. So we've got to be accommodating of that and we've got to take it on board ourselves as business owners. And I think that's important as a business owner to lead by example in many areas, whether that's your leadership style in the workplace also, you know, fitness and wellbeing and health. That's another thing I'm working on with my staff with at the moment. They won't be offended. One's a smoker, one's overweight. And I'm trying to not obviously bullying. They're more demanding of them, but, you know, we're trying to work with them to make some better choices in life. Yeah, I think that's a cultural thing that comes from the top of leadership. And that's all been helped by the, as you mentioned, the Farm Owners Academy.

And so what does that look like for you? How do you display Those things.

Well, it's interesting bringing that up, mate. So I love, I like to bike ride. Yeah.

Road bike.

Don the Lycra.

Do you?

Yeah. Out here. I used to, yeah. We had a little group called the Dusty Peddlers.

Yeah.

We don't meet anywhere near as frequently anymore. I'm guilty of that. But I, I've got a peddler wahoo Kicker in my, in my family room and jump on that. I was on that this morning. Yeah. And, and obviously like water skiing and snow skiing. So I like to keep actively, actively walk. I don't run. I'm geriatric. I've got arthritis so I go a little bit easier on my body. My wife is, is incredible. She's certainly an inspiration. She does something every day.

Yeah. Wow.

And yeah, I think, I think combine that physical side of well being with. Obviously it's important to us to have weekends off. We'd like to have friends over. I like to, I got kids at boarding school. I'm quite often leaving on a Friday lunchtime and heading down doing all things friends and family. Can that be seen as, oh, the boss is taking a heap of time off and we're all left here to go to work. No, I don't want that. So we make sure that when the lads ask for time off, they absolutely have. It doesn't matter how busy. Flip side of that is, quite often I'm finding myself actually bloody work on a weekend. Cause I'm trying to accommodate, you know, everybody's needs.

Do you find yourself second guessing yourself with those or have you become comfortable with that?

Uh, no, there's still some second guessing there. There's no doubt about that. So I suppose around that should I be working on the weekends? Probably not. Do I actually. I don't mind it. I actually quite enjoy it. But do I need more staff? So that's the conversation I'm having with ourselves at the moment. Well, like I said in the car, we've had three full time staff here for a while and one of them has just left and he was a fully qualified mechanic. But we're actually looking to employ another farmhand. With the property purchase that we've recently done, we're finding that we've got a lot more work out in the paddock now. And I've been taken away from some of those choices that I'd made about physical health and wellbeing. I haven't been as committed to my bike riding as a result of extra workload. So we decided, yep, definitely need to employ some More people.

Yep.

And I think that answers your question, Ollie.

Yeah, yeah, it does. No, I think that's interesting and I think what's cool is that, yeah, it does. It's not a yeah, if or but kind of thing. It's kind of just how it works.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So, coming back to the second guessing. Yeah, I think it's probably pretty normal. You've got to. I'm a quick decision maker. I don't procrastinate too much.

Yep.

I can make decisions pretty quickly, which I think is an advantage. But then on some of the bigger decisions, you know, coming back to cash flows and budgets, you've got to put a bit of time into the process. And I can't recall there's always a lot of second guessing leading up to any major decision, but I can't think of one that I've regretted, you know, so it might come down to a big. A big capital outlay. It might come down to, you know, employing another worker and putting that pressure on the business, but it's never to the detriment. It's always been for the better once it happens and you've got comfortable with it.

Creates other options.

Creates other options.

You just gotta keep making decisions.

That is true.

Yeah. Let's chat about one of those decisions. The grower group, which you and a bunch of other farmers have recently established, I guess tell us more about what has existed here historically and. Yeah, why did you guys set up this new group?

Yeah, so, well, interesting conversation. So I suppose, you know, years ago, I remember my dad being there, was a grow group, like in my dad's generation, and they call themselves the Secret Squirrels and there was, you know, lots of beer consumed and farm tours and very unofficial and all sort of managed by an old statesman, a gentleman in the DPI game, Vic French, who they were all very friendly with. Vic retired. Obviously, the next generation of farmers came through. We're. We've been talking about getting the group going again and so eventually we did. So hence the Western Downs grow group was established very early days, Ollie, and I've certainly been at the forefront of communicating with local growers, getting that going. I've got a fair bit more work to do, I'll be honest about that, but we've got a great group of really good operators in the region that are supporting the group. I won't mention any names because that'll offend someone for sure. So, you know, really good young group. The idea was, and it was really important to us to get all the Agronomists within the region online. So, you know, it wasn't seen to be catering for any one group of clients or anything. So that was really critical for us. The area of Condamine in the Western Downs, in the park, like it's fair to say, was an area that really wasn't serviced by a lot of agronomists for many years. Other than DPI facilitated agros or you know, even to a degree, the grdc, you know, liaison offices. I suppose a lot of growers would go to a grower GRDC forums to learn new information. But recently there's certainly been some private agronomists come into the region. Resellers, you know, fair to say. Resellers have certainly had agros in the likes of Miles and Chinchilla and some degree coming out of Dolby, but we're sort of not in the middle of nowhere, but we're a little bit away from population as a sense. So this grower group, its intention is, Ollie, to be. We're very mindful of creating more work for ourselves as growers. So there's no doubt that the NGN is wanting. GRDC is wanting the NGN groups to be created, run by the growers. But we're very mindful that we're already pretty busy. We've got enough on our plates. So at this stage we're a formal but an informal group requiring looking to fix local issues that have been raised. We might meet once or twice a year. Yep, that's our intentions, to meet only a couple times a year, write down some of our major issues, reach out to the grdc. This is what we got, right? Who do we go to and how do we get some research here?

And so the Secret Squirrel stuff is a thing of the past. Still a few farm tours, but yeah.

There'Ll be a few farm tours and like a few beers to get the questions flowing. Ollie is there. So I think that is definitely. That's important. Yeah, you know, that we get together and. And there's no doubt that when a group of growers get around a barbecue or a pub or any opportunity to talk farming, they do. And usually that involves beer. Is that a cultural issue? Oh, whatever. We gotta. Well, we're barley growers, aren't we? So support. Yeah, support the industry. Yeah. Secret squirrels, in a way. Again, I'll point out the fact we're mindful of people's time. So, yeah, we're not going to be driving around. No one, not too many people have the time to drive around, just drink beer Five, six times a year these days. So we're definitely very much wanting to get research appropriate to the region and then communicate that to a group of growers by email and field. And you know, obviously field days hosting two, three field days at most a year.

And so what are those initial areas or focus that you guys have?

Yeah, so our initial discussion funneling off was at the Condamine Hotel.

Yeah.

Where the group was established.

That was because you needed a witness. Yeah.

We'Re all cyber. We, you know, forefront of mine for a lot of the growers in the region, no doubt at the moment, especially coming off the recent wet years. You know, we're either talking about a drought, we're talking about floods with. It's been going on for years in our region. The topography of the land is melanhole country or what people might familiarize the terminology, Gilgai country. So just little depressions on very flat topography land. So when we get these heavy storm events, they fill up with water. Management becomes an issue whether it's spraying, harvesting, planting. I spoke about that earlier. So leveling programs has been forefront of mind and there's been already a group of growers that have done a lot of leveling. What stops a lot of growers from leveling is the conversation or the story they have in their head about, you know, future subsoil constraints. So obviously when you remove the topsoil from the, from the high areas, you're dumping that beautiful soil in the low areas, then you're left with a, with a soil with some constraints, whether that's compaction, so dicity, whatever it may be, obviously nutrition, organic matter. So our first project is, you know, the best solution, the best technical methods to overcome some of those issues that we do that are presented when we do go leveling country. So there's yeah, gypsum applied, manure applied, synthetic applied, deep rip, no rip, nothing. So yeah, very. There's about 10 to 12 different strips within, within a grower's paddock where he's, where he's currently leveling and like what's.

The, the driver for that? Production.

Yeah, production. So again, yeah, getting the country back into production immediately.

Yep.

Now obviously there's those who are already leveling. We know the benefits we spoke about on the tour. I personally, I think it's a no brainer. Too much money has been left in the paddock, particularly on the wet years. So growers, they may not be able to plant their wheat crop as a result of melon holes being full. They're har. When it comes to harvesting, they get a big storm event and all of a sudden doing the melon hole. Waltz around the tops of melon holes, leaving the bottom of melon holes with put with grain in it, harvesting it later. Got sprouted grain. The list is endless. You can't run your spray rig up it when you need to the weeds. You got to get an aerial contractor in. You know, all of a sudden you got weed seed set problems. And because you can't, your country's not trafficable and you don't want to pay the contractor to spray the paddock. So you just let it sit there for a while. All sorts of horrible scenarios playing out simply because people are scared about the one off investment. And it is a big investment. So to answer your question, yes, it's certainly about production and getting it back into production as quickly as possible. And are we thinking about. So there's also the flip side of that is it's just not for those with, with leveling and sodicity and subsoil constraint issues. It's for those that are happy to continue farming their country as it is at the moment and you know, leaving it natural Gilgai country because they might run cattle on that. At the end of the day a lot of this area is, is mixed farming. So they'd be quite comfortable with planting some soft forage and letting it rain and all oats and letting it rain. However, there is some nutritional decisions that can be better made by growers and that might be applying some gypsum on their sodic already sodic soil. Sodicity is an issue in some of this melanhole country or manure being around the feedlots. We've got several large feedlots in the region. A lot of growers are adopting, spreading 10, 20 ton to the hectare of manure annually, biannually, whatever it is. Yeah, so there's, there's a couple of, there's a couple of plays here that we're looking at couple angles trying to help, trying to help the growers make better decisions.

And for you yourself, you're actually doing a little bit of, I guess, I don't know, research. Probably not the right one, but you're just trying to get some insights into your own country as well. Doing some soil tests. We saw the guys running around. So what's, what's happening there?

And I guess so we've, I mean every farmer's got a something going on, don't they? Every good stuff up is a trial. Ollie put a flag in the end of it put a texture on it. Yeah, yeah, yep. And it's a trial, something that. Yeah, so, yeah, well, I mean. I mean, Jake Hamilton is the guy that. That's hosting the Western Downs grower Group's first trial. He's. A lot of people would have heard of Jake. He's really vocal and excellent at sharing his story on Twitter and social media. So he's created a wonderful project out at his place. But, yeah, to your question, we've got a little. We've engaged in precision ag solutions to do some grid sampling on our farm after a level program. We've just finished leveling 300 hectares. Yeah, we've engaged in then to sample on a two or three hectare grid. I can't remember now.

Two. I think he said two.

Yeah, it is two.

You're welcome.

And I think, yeah, just it's an interesting space. It could be controversial, but there's only one way to find out. I want to find out for myself. So that agro's got one story, I've got another story, the pub's got another story, this farm's got another story. So I'm big believer just seeing it for myself. So, yeah, I've got Cam Underwood and. And the precision team here doing their soil testing right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes of it and we'll put some similar strips in ourselves.

So, looking a little bit ahead, what are the priorities for you guys next, say, three, five, 10 years?

Good question, Ollie.

We'd just go out as far as you want.

We're actually due for our annual meeting any day. We're hoping to get some rain next week and we'll prioritize that. So I suppose, yeah, like I say, we've. We've recently acquired a new farm and obviously developing. That's top of the agenda, level all things levelling and silo construction and road construction, drain construction, that's going to take. That's going to consume a lot of our time. The other one for us is the size and the scale of the business, where that heads. So, you know, I suppose some things, some steps that we're sort of approaching now is like some starting to think about some management, like the right people here. Am I just looking for a farm man looking for another mechanic, or am I. Are we looking for a management team member to come into our game? As my brother and I want to not work as hard and we realize obviously that for the family, for the business to grow and be successful, we might need to get some more appropriate help to Help us to do that. So I think they're probably. And the other big one, which I mentioned before is the development of the irrigation. So that's a big one for us too.

Yeah, A few things to keep you occupied but also maybe free up some of your time as well.

Yeah, yep, absolutely. So got some personal goals like traveling overseas with the family.

Yeah. Where would you go?

North America, Japan. We want to do snow skiing. Yeah, well, I want to go snow skiing.

We're on there 20th of January.

Well, yeah. You are going. Yeah, I'm about to in Japan. So I just thought I'd do a.

Couple of weeks work and then I better go back on holidays.

I look forward to hearing what you've got to say, mate. Yeah, so probably important for us is making sure you diarize and slot in in these events and this time off because otherwise you just talk about it. So that's something that we've worked on as a family together. So, yeah, I think that's enough for us. That'll keep us busy for the next few years, mate.

Yeah, absolutely. I actually do. I just really love how it just seems quite. We use the word holistic in the sense of. Seems like you guys have your priorities but also you're aware of the different things that are important at a business level but then also from a life level.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It definitely starts with. I mean at the end of the day you got to get a fair dink about what you want.

Yeah.

And then the next part of that, the next step to that is what the family wants. So especially in a farming family business. So fortunately for me, my brother and I were. We're very. We're not at all similar. We're pole is polar's apart but it works for the business. So. Yeah, but that's the difficult thing about family farms or family businesses. It doesn't have to be a farm, it's just a business is, you know, what direction do we all want to take? I got. I got some. I got three beautiful kids actually. We're on holidays and we've only got one week to go. They're actually not beautiful right now. They're paying. They could go back to school but they're going to be knocking on the door next thing. And so to answer going back to your question there before, like looking four or five years out, we're kind of getting to that point and I'm really looking forward to that point, to be honest. For now, we're really excited about this recent property purchase. It's Perfect timing for us. Well, actually, it could have happened years ago, but it happened and it's fantastic. So my brother and I are really excited about that. The next exciting stage for us is what my kids, where their journey's gonna go. And I can't wait. They don't have to come back here. They can look. I can look. I mean, we might be an investor in their. In their vet clinic. I don't know. Or their bloody hairdressing salon, whatever it's going to be. I can't wait for that part of the journey.

Yeah. I was going to ask you. I wasn't sure if you. So you're not. Not angling, you whatever. Like the excitement's actually for what's next for your kids.

Yeah. I'm definitely not one to be hung up on them having to come back to the farm. Not whatsoever. I have my suspicions that definitely one's not going to. One's pretty keen. And my little girl, Chloe, she's too young, mate, I call you. But yeah, I'm not at all. We're not on this journey now, say I. But my wife and I, Kate and Sam, my brother Sam, we're not here to create a legacy for the kids. Like I'm all about what, like the here and now and enjoying it. Enjoying the stages of life that. That offers for me as a father. And then the excitement of the. The business. And the business has certainly grown in the last five years substantially. There's plenty of cool things in front to look forward to, mate, and one of them is not me demanding that their kids come home.

That's so cool. Yeah, I'll say. It's super refreshing, but it is. It's awesome to hear you say that out loud.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they may have to play this back to me to remind me of stubborn old bastard dad, but yes. Yeah.

Ben, thank you so much for sitting down and taking the time. I know, yeah. You've taken a few hours out of your day, so thank you.

I appreciate it, Ollie. It's been good fun. Thanks, mate.

Cheer.