Conquering the Afternoon Slump by Mastering Energy and Sleep

And we are back with Sleep Reimagined with our own Nyree Penn. Nyree, how are you?

Hello. Hello. Glad to be back. How are you?

I'm great. I have to tell all our listeners that you were on a tour of speaking, your speaking expedition at the sleep conference and then book signing. Why don't we start there and tell us how did that go?

Oh my God, it was absolutely amazing. I definitely have to give a shout out to Michael and the Sleep World community. They were so gracious. It was such a great stay at Live Casino. in Philly. And so we did the lectures. It was so great to be around people who also love sleep as much as I do. Everyone seemed extremely interested in what prosomniacs bring into the sleep community. So a lot of great networking opportunities. But again, I cannot dismiss Michael DeMonaco. I'm sorry, Michael DeMonaco.

DeMonaco.

With Sleep World. Absolutely great job for us at the Sleep World Conference. So, very grateful for him at the Philly Sleep Conference.

All right. And also, thanks to our listeners. Since we got back to being consistent, the show right now, I have the dashboard open. I see it. It's now number 17. It climbed 2 more from yesterday. I was just telling Nyree, Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.

United States medicine category number 17 and health and fitness category 98. So top 100 under that too. We're just going to give this all good knowledge that Nyree has and keep climbing the charts. And next up, we have to call out Oura Rings, Massimo, to like, hey, we are here for you. Exactly. All right. So, today's topic is we want to talk about overcoming the afternoon slump and mastering sleep for all-day energy. How can one feel energized throughout the day? Okay. So, let's start there. Have you ever experienced that dreaded afternoon slump yourself and how did it impact your day?

Every day. I mean, honestly, like every day. I know. And I can look at the clock. My body knows. I can look at the clock, 3 o'clock, it's time. Let me go get my coffee. And I'm not going to sit up here and say I always practice what I preach. Life is life. I have to be lifin' sometimes. And it just happens every single— so naturally, I think I've developed the habit of drinking coffee at 3 o'clock. I know when it's 3 o'clock because my body starts feeling like it needs that coffee. But it's important to understand what that slump is. Why is it always everyone seemingly has it at the same time? Here down in South Florida, they have these little coffees, little cafecitos, excuse me, and you could smell it. They'd already start brewing it. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah, it's time for the cafecito. So It's just that slump has almost become a cultural thing and we've negated why we're having a slump in the middle of the day, literally in the middle of the day. So unfortunately, it's not normal. It is not a healthy routine that we've established as a society. What happened to siestas? You know, the 6th hour, the 6th hour, you know, that's what that really literally means, which is around, you know, 1 o'clock. So, well, I mean, 12 o'clock, it's 6 hours after dawn. So, why does that happen, right? Because a natural— we do have a natural physiological decline during that time, but it's supposed to happen, right?

Mm-hmm.

Not saying it's that dreaded afternoon slump. No, it's actually an opportunity for us, our bodies to transition. That's when melatonin is at the highest, the hormone that makes you sleepy. And so, you're naturally gonna start feeling that way. So, we can actually acknowledge it and embrace that we might need a nap.

It's like you said, it's kind of become a culture, right? Like how you were saying that we know that, oh, this time, It's coffee. Your brain is already thinking about it and it's like, yeah, I got to take a break, drink coffee. I don't think taking a break is a problem itself, but it's just like that energy slump that we are talking. You go with that. So, let's talk about more on that. So, why do so many people experience an afternoon energy crash even if they think they have had enough And what's really happening in our body and brain during that midday slump? Can you break that a little bit?

Yeah. So, you know, in your brain, the melatonin is at its highest. And during that time, you're going to start feeling sleepy. And so, then the other levels start falling, the fight levels, you know, the adrenalines and all those start falling ideally, right, in a healthy, you know, sleepy brain. This is what happens. And then, again, it's that time. It's the time when we're going to start slowing down. It's the time we're going to prepare ourselves for rest. It's the time. So, and then what were we doing before? Sometimes, and I know we mentioned naps, but naps aren't always— they're not good and they're not bad, right? So it just depends. Why are we taking a nap or why do we feel like we have this slump or this sleepiness? Is it this slump only from 1 to 3, or is this slump from the time I woke up? And just this past weekend, we had a patient and he swore up and down he was resting at night. He could not understand why he was so sleepy and he had lack of cognitive function and he just wasn't as motivated as he thought he was. He would've put money on the fact that he slept well at night. Hey, you don't know. And his wife is steady like, no, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. And it's just one of those things you don't know. And even though you think that you've rested well, you really aren't. There's no way of really knowing until you have daytime sleepiness. He always says, I'm not sleepy. I just get sleepy sometimes. Well, what is sometimes? Well, I always take a nap. Well, no, that's not okay. You know what I mean? It's just one of those things. So, it's important to identify like why, why do you feel this slump? You know, is it because you had a great, a really hard leg day at the gym and then you turn around and went right to work, you know, and now all of a sudden it's the middle of the day and you're like, if I don't close my eyes for 5 minutes, you know, you forget eating right now, I need to go take a nap, right? And it's, that's, you know, that's different. So, it's like, why do we have those slumps? And it's important that we identify and address them accordingly. I'm sorry, Vaibhav, I can't hear you.

Can you hear me now? All right, I think it was a disconnection a little bit. But I was saying that the nap thing, right? Like, is it a good thing or a bad thing? Good thing perhaps when the body demands it and it's tired, but without knowing the reason why it's demanding, that's a problematic thing to do because maybe the problem is because you're not getting enough sleep and that's the problem, right? So I hear this a lot of time and I've heard it from sleep specialists, especially even for my wife because she was complaining, oh, I don't get to sleep well in the night. And then the doctor was like, do you take nap? And she said, yes, I take nap. And the doctor was like, well, don't take nap. And if you take nap, then it's not going to work. So, right. So I think the statement here is like, it's not bad to take nap when it is— the reason is more of the tiredness per se, or you miss one night of sleep. But if it's like happening every day and you're not sleeping in the night, then it's probably something you need to investigate, right? That's what it is.

And from that perspective— okay.

So, I was going to ask you, what's your personal go-to strategy when you feel that midday crash coming on? What do you do to survive it? Is it some changes you make immediately outside of, of course, drinking coffee and stuff? But, what exactly do you do to go back on track or feel energized?

I definitely try to identify why am I sleepy, right? I work out before I go to work. I know I'm sleepy because I had a really hard workout at the gym this morning, right? So, I will try to grab a nap if I can. And definitely not more than 30 minutes. It's not a nap after 30 minutes, but definitely not more than 30 minutes. And then I literally feel so much better. And then I'll have a little bit more energy just to get me through until 9 o'clock when I can really go to bed. And that's when naps can become an issue is, are you taking a nap and then can't sleep at night? Then that's a problem. But if it's a nap because I had a hard workout, okay, then, or a nap because I have the type of job where we think a lot, right? And so, getting that caffeine, that little adrenaline rush is a little bit kind of necessary, right? So let me go grab a cup of coffee. So I'll try to take a nap, but if I can't, I will, I will go grab coffee knowing it's going to affect my sleep that night, right? And so these are, again, things that we're not conscious aware of, of like how our behaviors can like totally affect, for the most part, how we rest at night. And, you know, from the perspective of Prostomnia Sleep and our belief, Is that when you go into REM sleep, you release that adenosine pressure, that adenosine sleep pressure, right? You still need enough to be able to sleep through the night. So if you released all that during your nap, that's why you're awake at night, right? So let you know, it's important to identify why you feel a nap. Do you nap every— like children nap every day, okay? They need to nap because they're growing. Right? That's legitimate, you know. But, you know, a grown person napping every day at their desk, you know, on a regular, now it's a habit. And you can also get your body into the habit of napping, whether you need it or not, because at night then your body's going to depend on that other rest or that nap that you get, and now it becomes a habit. So, it just depends on, I guess, you know, that and your lifestyle as well.

So is there a specific stage of sleep that's more critical for maintaining energy levels too? Like throughout the day, like, does it have to be like, if you don't have REM sleep, so you will most certainly be tired or have naps. Is that, is that how, or can you go in some details there?

Sure. I mean, I would, I would love to say REM sleep is more important, but no, it's not like, you know, you can't, there's no way of really knowing. But again, it's also, let's understand the purpose of sleep in itself. The purpose of non-REM and REM sleep is not to maintain. The purpose is to restore, recycle, rejuvenate, recover, right? Not to maintain. The maintenance is on the cellular level. That comes down to our nutrition, which is something we're very big on here as well. Now, let's think about it. When you go to Five Guys, I don't know if you guys have Five Guys, but that's When I go to Five Guys, all right? Yes. I mean, but I'm sluggish, I'm slow, I'm heavy. I just had this heavy, greasy meal with great French fries. Of course, I'm going to be sleepy and tired. But if I went and I had a salad from Pura Vida, that's amazing. I'm going to have all the energy in the world, right? So that's when, again, We have to be very, very cautious of the food we put in our body. 80% of the serotonin that we make is made in our gut. You know, that's then later transferred into melatonin, right? So we need that to keep us sleepy throughout the night. You know, and sometimes they always say tryptophan. It's not really that. It's really just serotonin in general. And again, in the middle of the day, when our serotonin levels are at their highest, It's natural for us that our biophysiology is prepared to be sleepy at that time. So it's okay. And again, to maintain that energy, you just have to be very cautious of getting proper rest, non-REM and REM sleep. And you do need them. I'm not going to negate the fact that you need them both. It's just, yes, if you don't have a lot of rest, REM rest, When you give your mind the opportunity to rest and restore and rejuvenate, you're going to be tired the next day.

How much of, I mean, I guess a lot, what you eat impacts your sleep, basically. That's what you're saying. And the question is, I mean, I have never seen this connection in when we go to any doctors, there's no nutritionist sitting with the doctor. So, this is Kind of a little bit hard to believe it after— of course, everything that I put in my body is going to impact the nutrition and everything. So would you think that more sleep clinics should also have nutritionists also in their kind of doing the diagnosis, especially for sleep-related stuff, or are there any doing it? I don't know what's the reality. Could you tell us about that?

Well, I can definitely tell you ProSomni Sleep Health and Wellness is doing it. We actually do measure neurotransmitter levels with some of our patients because it's important to identify because they're all interrelated. It's not, I can't just treat your serotonin, I can't just treat your melatonin, dopamine, they're all related. But if you have low serotonin levels but high dopamine levels, what's going on with your diet? Like I said, 80%, let's try to boost it naturally. But we have to have a benchmark. What's going on? Where are you at? We do look at that. And then we do thereby design a personalized plan for each individual patient that we have because everybody's different, right? It's not a one-size-fits-all. We do not have a general format we give to every single person. Everyone has a different sleep story, so we have to treat them personalized in a personalized manner and to get them sleep.

So talk to, talk us through a patient without, patient story at ProSomnia who had, whom you had to do the neurotransmitter tests and then biomarkers once you got it from there. So how does that work? Can you walk through the cycle at ProSomnia? So Our listeners know exactly how it works.

Yeah. So we have a sleep— everyone has their own sleep specialist. When you come, you have an initial consultation with each person so we can visibly see you and talk to you. It's done virtually. And once we identify what your sleep disparity is, in addition to your sleep quiz and your own personal sleep history, we take into account all that and you come in. For a prosomnia sleep session. Once you have your first prosomnia sleep session, we kind of look at— take a diagnostic look as to what's going on. We take the information from your consultation and the information from your prosomnia sleep plan— prosomnia sleep therapy session, and then we develop a personalized sleep plan for you. Everyone, we do look through this. We'll get your labs, you'll do a home sleep test, we'll identify if you do have sleep apnea, right? Some people, it may just be something as simple as they have sleep apnea. That's why they can't sleep, right? And then, you know, that's an easy fix. And then they can— some people don't necessarily have a problem getting into REM sleep, right? But if you're not getting into non-REM sleep, you're not going to get into REM sleep. It takes about 2 hours for your body to even think about getting into REM sleep. So if you're not getting a solid first 2 hours, you're not getting REM sleep. So sometimes it's just an issue of treating the non-REM sleep issue for whatever reason we look at. We look at the neurotransmitters, all the different things that we affect them, and we design a nutrition plan for them. We try to boost those or decrease those or different cognitive behavioral therapies that they can do. Sleep schedules are big. Sometimes just changing a person's sleep schedule fixes their sleep entirely, but nobody's taking the time to look at that, right? And that's what we help everyone through. So, we don't— we identify the problem and then we want to educate the patients to make sure they have to be on board. It's their commitment as well. And we do ask them to commit to at least 3 months because based on the sleep disparity, It's going to be based on the time that we need to kind of identify and improve your sleep situation. And then, like I said, we just take it from there. We identify your sleep plan. We provide the support. It's not like, here you go. No, you have your own personalized sleep plan with a whole progress report with your own app. I look and see what you do. I know when you wake up. I know when you go to bed. And we'll tweak it accordingly. If something isn't working, we'll change it. And we continue to support our patients throughout the process until we all see some sleep improvement and overall health and wellness.

So, the patients, once they leave after the visit and they have the app, do they have to wear something, the wearable, which is tracking or just—

Yeah. And their plan, their own plan is Wow. There in that app that we developed for you, down to working out, what to eat. And we are really with you the entire time. We're literally on your phone with you 24/7, right? And because you get your own sleep specialist, we know what's going on with you. We know your history. We know what it means when you get a new dog, right? We know. We're so intimately with you. Sleep is such an intimate part, and I think that's another reason why people don't talk about it a lot. And especially if you're having problems, almost up there with sex, right? Nobody seemingly talks about their sleep issues. So yeah, we dive deep. We get really personal. And that's why it's important that everyone has their own sleep specialist and their own personalized sleep plan.

Yeah. Let's talk about chronic fatigue. Now, people don't get sleep and they think like, oh, I didn't get sleep, that's why I'm tired. But then at what point or some point it turns into a chronic fatigue thing, like you're always just tired. And so like this thing, how can people overcome this? Or I guess the first question is, What's the, how to like make sure like, you know, the signal, pick up that signal that, oh, I might have this thing. So what is that signal? What should people keep in mind? And then what's the best way outside of therapy to, not outside of therapy, like what's the best way to go about, oh, now I need to resolve this. Could you suggest a few things here?

Something that I thought was really interesting was that people think chronic fatigue is normal. And they will normalize it and work through it until they can't, right? Like, what do you do? Like, what happens to you when you start, you're constantly sleepy, sleepy, sleepy?

Yeah, I mean, I feel like you, I feel like at some point in time you should know that, okay, this is like, this is how it is. This is bad, right? Like, then you're not getting things done, right? Basically, or your day is interrupted. So, if this would be me, I would see like, oh, my pattern has changed and I'm just continuously sleepy. But, the point I get or the question that I want to ask is if I'm not getting sleep for some reason in the night and I'm feeling this tiredness now, most logically, I will always blame, yeah, I didn't sleep well. I don't sleep well. And, I would think it's a chronic fatigue thing. So, I guess, how do we know, like, as a patient, as a person, how can you know? What's your suggestion there?

It's because people, like I said, we've normalized it. Being sleepy, chronic fatigue is not normal, but nobody told us it wasn't, right? We just work, work, work, work, work, work, work, or whatever. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, right? I can do it. I can stay awake. I can finish. I can do it. Knowing good and doggone well you can't concentrate on a single solitary thing you're doing, right? But what? You're going to turn around and do it tomorrow and then turn around and do it again until you just crash, right? Or I'll make it up in the weekend. And then the weekend comes and you don't, right? So now you've established this habitual habit of being chronically tired, right? And again, having a proper sleep schedule is a habit, right? Knowing that you have to make some lifestyle changes And commit some conscious thought to laying your butt down at night is not easy for some people, right? They would rather work more and be tired than actually stop what they're doing and lay down. You know what I mean? So it's that serious that we just completely take for granted, right? And so chronic fatigue is not normal. That's the number one thing that our patients tell us. Daytime sleepiness. I'm always sleep— we ask them. It's on our sleep quiz. Do you have daytime sleepiness? Yes. Inevitably you do, right? That's not normal. So, again, it's important to identify, is this chronic fatigue or do I just need a nap?

Yeah. Big distinction there. Yeah.

And you want to— and that's the first thing we tell every— at the initial consultations, the first thing we do is help people implement A solid sleep schedule, a consistent sleep schedule. I don't care if you're working that day. I don't care if you're off. I don't care if you're going to school. A consistent sleep schedule is number one priority.

Yep. And I know we talked about that, you know, we can have caffeine and sugar to fight the sleep, whatever that is, but is there any natural ways to boost the energy without relying on stimulants like caffeine? Is there any, anything natural ways, any natural ways to boost energy at all?

Yeah. A proper sleep schedule, a proper healthy sleep schedule. And as simple as that sounds, hundreds of thousands of people do not have one, right? So, and it's a conscious lifestyle change. When we get proper sleep and proper rest, we are not sleepy in the day. We do not have daytime sleepiness, right? So, an indication in itself, I mean, outside of, again, doing something strenuous, working out, whatever, normal, regular needing a nap every single day in the middle of the day is not normal, right? So, it's what are we— is this— do we need a nap or is this chronic fatigue? And so, once we identify that, then we got to implement a consistent sleep schedule. And then naturally, there's the issue of what if I can't sleep, right? And then that's when we start digging a little bit deeper. But for the most part, to improve your energy throughout the day is to have a consistent sleep schedule and eat healthy whole foods, right? Proper nutrition. And the way we're going now, I don't know. I know it's very hard and it's very expensive, right? And we, and you know, that's something that we all have to consider, how our nutrition affects our sleep. It affects our bodies.

Yeah. If you had to pick one energy ritual that you swear by, what would that be for you or from your experience?

A consistent sleep schedule.

So how does, when you say consistent sleep schedule is like, okay, it's just the time I want to go to bed or is it also like duration? Like every time I want to have X number of hours, what is like the right, I guess in layman terms, what would be the best way to define it?

Yes. We define it as yes, a time. We ask like, Some people only need 4, right? However, when you're sleeping 8 on this day and 4 on this day and 12 on this day, how much sleep do you really need? You have no idea. How much sleep do you need so you don't have daytime sleepiness, so you don't have to feel like you need a slump, a coffee in the middle of the day, so you don't feel like you need a nap? Like, what— how much is that? So, you know, we try to go through that with you and try to figure that out. And then once we identify that, then it's like, okay, I think I need about 6 hours. Okay, so you can be in bed like 10 and then wake up at like 7, right? 10, you know, yeah, whatever. So, so whatever, whatever that looks like for you, right? So, but then you, you have to let your body know, you have to create that habit. Notice when people travel, Your bodies adjust just fine, right? You need a couple, you need about 3 days to adjust, but your body has the capability and the capacity to shift its sleep schedule. The issue is you won't tell it when it can sleep, right? Okay. All right, Vivek, you let me sleep for 12 hours yesterday, but now you want me, I'm only getting 4 today? Like, all right, we got to establish that habit and let your mind and your body know when it can rest. I think that's fair, right? So we just have to figure that out.

If, like, while you're establishing this, right, they also say like, oh, you know, if you go in the bed, you should go in the bed and then just sleep. It shouldn't be like you're 2 hours in the bed, up, and then you're like, you know, picking up phone, doing something. You're not asleep. You're just laying down. I don't even know if it's called laying down at that stage. It's just like you're interrupted, right? So When you talk also about schedule, I'm assuming, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's also about like you just go and go to bed and sleep, right? That's what it is.

Yeah, so that's sleep hygiene, right? And so, we also definitely look at your sleep hygiene, right? Your sleep habits. What do you do? Are you the type of person that needs to lay in bed and then you'll fall asleep? Are you the type of person as soon as your head hits the pillow, you're out? And so, we look at that. We look at, do you have a TV in your room? Okay. Do not sleep with the TV on. Do you have, you know, how far is your phone away from you? Do you have the do not disturb on your phone? Do you have a cold environment? Is it dark enough for you? Even streetlights can affect, you know, how you rest. And then, you know, your hearing when you go to sleep, your hearing is the last to go and the first to come back. So you definitely have to be conscious and aware of what's on your TV if you are the type of person that needs a TV to go to sleep, right? People convince themselves, I can only go to sleep with the TV on. Okay, just be aware and conscious of what's on it because that will affect your consciousness when you go to sleep. And that type of environment, like how cold is it? Do you need clothes? We go through all of that. And to help you identify proper sleep habits. And as basic as it sounds, I promise you people don't do it.

Yeah. I'm going to ask you this tricky question. Let's see. So, let's say somebody has a good schedule, as in like they go to sleep, fix time, and they sleep for 6, 7 hours every day, wake up great, but it's messed up in a way that That the going to bedtime is 2 a.m., but they wake up at 8, 6 hours great sleep, nothing tired. Is that bad technically speaking? Because a lot of time I hear the stigma: you're going late to bed, blah blah blah blah blah, right? But the same person is getting great sleep, you know, and it's 6 hours, and they do it every day. That's their schedule. So in my mind, I feel like this is a this person is following whatever you are telling right now. So explain me, is this a right way or wrong way? Give your insight on this one, this example.

Like that they only need a few hours of sleep and they're fine?

No, meaning like the time they went to bed is not important as long as it's consistent, consistent, and they're getting the quality sleep every day, every night from 2 to 8 AM. They sleep 6 hours, but they go at 2:00 AM, right? And that's their schedule, even though we will call it, oh, this late night, but this person is waking up with full energy next day. So, is this good sleep, good sleep schedule, or considered a good sleep schedule here or not?

Well, that's what we work with our night shift workers, right? We're not going to tell them, don't go to work, right? No, we just shift your schedule. You create the habit of, As soon as you get off of work, go to sleep if you can. You got kids, whatever you got to drop off, whatever. After you drop off the kids, come home, go to sleep from 12 to 3 or 5 or whatever you can do, right? Have life, meet the family, get another 3 hours before you go into work. And that's a staggered sleep shift, right? But at least your mind and your body know, I can sleep from 12 to 3. And then again from 6 to 9, right? That's totally fine if that's how it needs to be. Just establish a consistent habit even on the days you're off work because they sometimes will have Fridays and Saturdays off, Friday, Saturday, Sunday or something like that off. And then they want to be up and hang out, which they— but then they'll be sleepy trying to hang out. You know what I mean? Because that's the time when they're supposed to be— Sleeping, right? They've established the habit. So, you know, that's just all part of it, right? Just, and/or get your body into the habit of, hey, we're going out, we're hanging out Friday, Saturday, you're staying up, and then Sunday we'll crash, you know, and we'll get back on track, right? Just establish a consistent habit. And that's how we set up our night shift workers.

Okay. So really moving the The timing is not a problem per se, but if you are consistent with your sleep and you're getting that hours and you are fresh next day, then it's good.

Exactly.

Okay. But you know how our society works. We have habit of saying that, no, that's wrong.

Everybody's an expert, right? But they won't tell you about their sleep.

Yeah, I know. Okay, cool. And how important is our body's natural rhythm, the, you know, when it comes to managing daily energy levels? Can you talk about that?

Yeah, our circadian rhythm is everything. You know, we biologically, we function around the sun, the circadian rhythm around the sun, right? Our bodies elicit a chemical response when we see the sun. It's everything. We have clock cells in our brain that keep track and regulate the sun and when we go to sleep. And so, it's, I mean, it's everything. The circadian is how we live. As a matter of fact, the circadian really is how all creatures on Earth live. Every creature on Earth, except the nighttime nocturnal animals, but they have their own circadian as well, right? So, when they're awake at night, they're asleep in the day. They have the opposite schedule, but they have a circadian schedule as well. So, it's absolutely important for us to try to— and that is pretty much the challenge, again, with the nighttime workers. Biologically, the melatonin is high. That's when they usually are up. Right? So they often have to combat the natural melatonin responses at night so they can do their job and function. And that's when the caffeine becomes addictive and the adrenaline— I mean, the caffeine drinks and all that other stuff become habit, habitual. And then even still, same thing. When they're off of work, they're still awake at night, still craving the caffeinated drinks because they've established the habit. But it's possible. It just takes— it's a little bit more challenging. And the problem that I think a lot of people don't really consider is when they try to go back to a regular 9 to 5 or a daytime, nighttime, a daytime job, right? Their bodies usually take a longer time to go back to to a regular schedule because it's been so disrupted. It almost forgot what it looked like, right? So, those are important things to keep in mind when people work these nighttime shift positions, yeah.

Is it now, especially in the world what we live in, more and more time is spent inside the buildings, right? And that's happening. So, does it still Are we still really connected with the, with our natural clock with the sun at all, or it's not anymore? Are you seeing any changes? Is there any evidence of that, or is it the evidence still shows no, it's still pretty much connected with how the daylight works and all that stuff?

I would not be surprised if there is some evidence and publications about the impact of our indoor lighting and how it affects us. Especially considering how reliant we are on sunlight. It's not just to regulate our circadian, it's also because vitamin D, B12, assist with metabolism and just so many other biophysiological processes that the sun, that we need from the sun. So I would not be surprised. I'm sure they've done studies on especially people in Alaska. You know, those places where there's 24 hours with no sun, where depression rates are very, very high. That's a clear indication of exclusively due to the fact that they are not getting sunlight. Some diseases will start occurring. And honestly, chronic insomnia is a pure indication of the increasing— and amongst our children, chronic insomnia amongst children is at an all-time high. Because the children are inside so much now. I'm not going to go down the whole technology road and all this other stuff, but I mean, we all know we've got to at least get outside, see the sunlight for at least 30 minutes a day. And our children, make them go outside. My parents used to lock the door. We could not come back in. No, you stay outside. Okay. I'm not saying we got to resort to all that. I'm just saying we got to get— You know, just for health reasons alone, you know, it'll improve their immune system. Like, it just— there's just so many things we rely on the sun for. We've got to start getting back outside, and sleep is one of them.

All right, cool. Well, this brings us to the end of this conversation.

And any—

if I have to ask you, like, one last thing is Prosomnia is collecting, obviously treating patients, and also there's a lot of data collection that's going on. Is there any finding that comes in where you were like, yeah, this thing used to work like this a few years ago, but now we are seeing this specific thing has changed due to how our lifestyles are, how everything— is there one thing that you can share that came across? over the years for you while you're treating patients for their sleep patterns and all the therapies, sleep therapies? Could you share anything?

Yeah, for sure. Especially with my attendance at the Philly Sleep Conference, what is really, really concerning is how prevalent obstructive sleep apnea is. We do test our patients. It doesn't matter where they are in the country. We can definitely Assist people with home sleep tests. We will send them right to their door. Our sleep physicians analyze it. We meet again, we read the results, and then we also support and improve and try to provide some sort of support that need of whatever that is. And obstructive— the denial of obstructive sleep apnea is what I'm seeing a lot. People, again, they justify daytime sleepiness, The chronic fatigue, the grogginess, the lack of cognitive skills, decline. Again, sleep affects every aspect of your life and your body, right? So, the denial of people having obstructive sleep apnea is what really caught me off guard. And then the secondary effects, I don't think people realize how much lack of oxygen to your body when you sleep at night Affects your heart, your blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, dementia. Like every aspect of your body is affected when with obstructive sleep apnea. So, it just really empowered me to really want to go out and educate people so much more. In addition to prosomnia sleep therapy, we also do have an obligation to educate patients on the importance of healthy sleep and proper sleep habits. And that's definitely what I've noticed that we have to start and we will start doing more of. I can't hear you.

All right. So, once again, another insightful conversation from Nyree and sharing all the good things about sleep. and the bad things as well, the things that we shouldn't do. And Nyree, once again, this has been very helpful. Thank you. And we will come back again with our next episode with similar and better insights from one and only Nyree Penn. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Vivek. I appreciate you. Have a good one.